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Bloodlusted deathmatch in Manhattan.
Who takes it?


BONUS: The Avengers get Phoenix Jean, how do their odds change?

Todd punches moon holes in everybody.

i think you're overestimating Todd.

He casually punched a hole in the moon, and casually threw Scott several thousand feet into the air. His TK is pretty powerful I don't see what all the Avengers can do.

The Avengers get thrown into space.

Originally posted by KingD19
He casually punched a hole in the moon, and casually threw Scott several thousand feet into the air. His TK is pretty powerful I don't see what all the Avengers can do. he put Phoenix in this fight too.

Her TK is nothing compared to his. She stopped a dam for a few seconds; Todd punched a hole in the moon to impress his girlfriend.

So not only is his TK powerful enough to punch a hole in the moon, he can withstand space and even re-entry.

he punched a crater in the moon, not a hole; and i don't see why Jean couldn't do the same if she concentrated her power into one blast like he did.

Also she has TP, and Todd doesn't.

Originally posted by marwash22
he punched a crater in the moon, not a hole; and i don't see why Jean couldn't do the same if she concentrated her power into one blast like he did.

Also she has TP, and Todd doesn't.

Ramona specifically called it a hole. "He punched a hole in the moon for me." Even if it wasn't an actual hole, it was a huge crater and beyond what any Avenger showed power wise.

Also when she said they "wrecked stuff", it looked like he demolished a town.

And she can't do the same because she never demonstrated power on that scale. Holding back the water from a collapsing dam for a few seconds doesn't equal punching a hole in the moon.

Also Jean's telepathy is a moot point. She not once used it in combat situations.

why do you keep bringing up the holding back water feat?

she disintegrated entire buildings.

That's Dark Phoenix. I thought we were using Phoenix. They are two different entities.

Originally posted by KingD19
That's Dark Phoenix. I thought we were using Phoenix. They are two different entities.

Um...okay. We're using the version of Phoenix that was disintegrating everybody in X3. And I don't recall anybody in X3 calling her Dark Phoenix, so yeah.

They probably put up more of a fight, but Jean has shown absolutely no defenses. And between Todd's TK and his guitar. He also seemingly possess teleportation on top of speed. I don't see her being able to do much. And she'd be a detriment to her own team because she was killing everyone.

And it was clear she was Dark Phoenix. She turned Phoenix in X2(you could see it in her eyes when she held back the dam), then in X3 she looked like she was dead and had the creepy black eyes and started killing everyone. There's a very clear distinction.


Also Mar, Todd does have telepathy. He tells Scott he can read his thoughts, then starts speaking in his mind.

ahhhh yeah, you're right about his TP. Forgot about that. Doesn't matter tho, her TP is much stronger.


in a forum fight she wouldn't go after her own team... but who cares if she doe kill her team, that's not against the rules, and Todd would die with them.

Also, Jean did show offensive tp. She kept Nightcrawler from using his powers at the end of X2, she also kept Scott from using his powers (that, or she simply held his beam back and kept him from unleashing it... don't recall the details), and in "The Last Stand" she was far more powerful than Prof X, who casually controlled the minds of dozens of people at once.

Jean would just keep Todd from using his powers, then turn him into vegan dust.

The Avengers stomp easily.

Todd is a glass cannon of the highest order.

A single headbutt from anyone Iron Man level or up would kill him in one shot.

Originally posted by marwash22
ahhhh yeah, you're right about his TP. Forgot about that. Doesn't matter tho, her TP is much stronger.


in a forum fight she wouldn't go after her own team... but who cares if she doe kill her team, that's not against the rules, and Todd would die with them.

Also, Jean did show offensive tp. She kept Nightcrawler from using his powers at the end of X2, she also kept Scott from using his powers (that, or she simply held his beam back and kept him from unleashing it... don't recall the details), and in "The Last Stand" she was far more powerful than Prof X, who casually controlled the minds of dozens of people at once.

Jean would just keep Todd from using his powers, then turn him into vegan dust.

Considering his speed(not sure if he's just uber fast or can teleport) and the slow speed of her disintigration wave, I doubt she could even hit him with it. Especially since he can read her mind.

She didn't keep him from using his powers with TP, she used her TK to keep him in the seat. Just like she used it to catch him in the beginning and hold him in the air.

I think she just held his beams back when she killed him, and against Xavier, she again used telekinesis, shown when she floated him into the air and exploded him.

Her telepathy wasn't really showcased much at all.

And I doubt she can stand up to a moon punch from a guy who can see what she's about to do and can move faster than she can.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Avengers stomp easily.

Todd is a glass cannon of the highest order.

A single headbutt from anyone Iron Man level or up would kill him in one shot.

You realize Scott only headbutted him after the Vegan police stripped him of his powers.

Prof X was trying to mindrape her, and she stopped him... that's TP.

He wasn't trying to mindrape her. He was talking to her with telepathy and get her to agree to letting him fix what was wrong with her. That's why he said "Let me in." She was blocking him with her TP, but he wasn't trying to overpower her.

And after that was when she picked up the house and disintegrated him.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Avengers stomp easily.

Todd is a glass cannon of the highest order.

A single headbutt from anyone Iron Man level or up would kill him in one shot. Weren't his vegan powers removed when Scott punched him?

Originally posted by KingD19
He wasn't trying to mindrape her. He was talking to her with telepathy and get her to agree to letting him fix what was wrong with her. That's why he said "Let me in." She was blocking him with her TP, but he wasn't trying to overpower her.

And after that was when she picked up the house and disintegrated him. Nope. He said "let me in" out loud. He was clearly trying to force himself into her head and she stopped him.


JnqupBtPZNI

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Weren't his vegan powers removed when Todd punched him?

Yeah. Thomas Jane(awesome cameo) and the other Vegan cop pointed out that he'd eaten Gelato, chicken parmesan, and that half and half coffee made 3 strikes, so they used De-Veganizing rays and took his power. Then Scott headbutted him to death.

Originally posted by marwash22
Nope. He said "let me in" out loud. He was clearly trying to force himself into her head and she stopped him.

So you're saying the guy who was strong enough to keep the Phoenix locked up in Jean's subconscious since she was like 7 couldn't do it if he felt like it? He was trying to get Jean to realize who she was, while Magneto was trying to get her to embrace the power the Phoenix gave her.

Originally posted by KingD19
So you're saying the guy who was strong enough to keep the Phoenix locked up in Jean's subconscious since she was like 7 couldn't do it if he felt like it? He was trying to get Jean to realize who she was, while Magneto was trying to get her to embrace the power the Phoenix gave her. Ummmm, he was never stronger than Phoenix, that's entire reason he put "walls" up in her mind to keep that power from surfacing... he was afraid of not being able to control her. His fear was proven correct when he tried and failed to get into her mind.


what exactly do you think "let me in" means? he was trying to get in her head, and she stopped him.

Let's omit TP for these specific circumstances. How does it go then without telepathy?

Without telepathy, Todd is far too fast(he showcased either pure teleportation, or teleportation speed) to get hit by a disintigration wave which clearly shows it's effects. Also, if he and Jean get in a TK battle, his is stronger. He'll probably take her out first as she's potentially one of the heaviest hitters, then he'll work on the others. Thor and Hulk last longest. The 3 humans probably get Scott tossed and die when they land.

hot diggity damn

Seriously. The speed and ease at which he pulled off the moon punch means he could replicate it a few times to use on the big boys in this match. And no one has a defense against it.

how was Todd's TK stronger? He punched a crater in the moon. That's not above disintegrating buildings, Jean simply never released all of her TK force into one blow like Todd did to create the crater.

Are you really saying that someone who disintegrates buildings can't release enough force to duplicate Todd's moon feat?

Originally posted by marwash22
how was Todd's TK stronger? He punched a crater in the moon. That's not above disintegrating buildings, Jean simply never released all of her TK force into one blow like Todd did to create the crater.

Are you really saying that someone who disintegrates buildings can't release enough force to duplicate Todd's moon feat?

With ease he tossed Scott a few thousand feet into the air.

He demolished an entire town, and he punched a hole/crater in the moon.

Jeans Disintegration wave wasn't even the same brand of TK. Todd used force, she was I think pulling things apart on a molecular level.

And if you look at the little cartoon, the size of the crater and the back blast of the energy is huge.

And Jean as Dark Phoenix's biggest display of directed force is knocking the door in the basement into the wall.

Originally posted by KingD19
pulling things apart on a molecular level.

your words.

It wasn't enough to stop Wolverine. I doubt it can stop Todd. And that's even if he gets hit, considering how slow the wave is and he can teleport.

You're acting like he can't just blast Jean when the fight starts.

she was holding back, letting Wolverine kill her.

Team wins with or without Jean. While Todd is busy taking out Hulk, Thor, Iron Man and Captain America, Jeremy ****ing Renner arrows his ass from a distance. Though Iron Man could probably do the same, except with a missile.

Phoenix would mind-sodomize him while simultaneously turning him into ash.

Black Widow strips and spreads her legs. Todd breaks the vegan code and loses his powers.


/thread.

Originally posted by KingD19
You realize Scott only headbutted him after the Vegan police stripped him of his Vegan powers.

Fixed for accuracy.

He has psychic powers like telekinesis and some mild telepathy.

Superhuman durability is not one of the listed powers.

Originally posted by marwash22
Are you really saying that someone who disintegrates buildings can't release enough force to duplicate Todd's moon feat?

You think disintegrating buildings is on the level of creating a crater on the moon that is the size of a country?

You're a funny guy.

Originally posted by KingD19
With ease he tossed Scott a few thousand feet into the air.

This isn't even vaguely on par with the power output of Thor, Hulk, and Jean.



When.



Vastly inconsistent with his other showings.



Harder.



Read above.



I'm pretty sure lifting the plane while holding back a flood while telepathically controlling Xavier in the second movie was better, as was telekinetically lifting every car surrounding her house in the span of at least a city block, casually.

Originally posted by The Fat Rambo
Black Widow strips and spreads her legs. Todd breaks the vegan code and loses his powers.


/thread.

You're a cunning linguist.

how about Todd vs kickass girl