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Why is this crossover NOT canon when it's referenced on panel in DC and in Handbook entries in Marvel? I actually believe it WAS referenced on panel in Marvel involving Terminus but I don't have the scan.

Here is the event in question from JLA/Avengers :
http://s14.postimg.org/4c3jiuau5/jla1.jpg http://s14.postimg.org/wwi2s2i59/jla2.jpg http://s14.postimg.org/c2abnzd5p/jla3.jpg http://s14.postimg.org/84igku0yl/jla4.jpg http://s14.postimg.org/waxp9pcgt/jla5.jpg

Here it is in Terminus' handbook entry confirming play by play what went down regarding him in JLA/Avengers :
http://s11.postimg.org/cugw7vmgf/confirm.jpg

Also why can't we use this as proof regarding how various characters would do vs each other between companies since this event IS canon to BOTH?

Sounds good to me.

Here are some more bios

Photon

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_photonhandbook3.jpg

Grandmaster

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_grandmasterbio.jpg

If I wanted I can find other bios too which have described JLA/Avengers but who cares.

Because JLA/Avengers is no longer mentioned in the appendix section of Blockbusters of the Marvel Universe.Blockbusters of the Marvel Universe was published in January 26, 2011 making it more current than any of the comic books that came out.Yet the Marvel Vs DC event was mentioned stating that Earth-616 was temporarily merged with DCU on Blockbusters of the Marvel Universe.There is also a detail of a crossover there known as "Megaverse Crossovers" were Superman battled Spiderman.Yet I can't find any mention of JLA/Avengers in the appendix section for some reason.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/RandomScans/BMU_063.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/RandomScans/BMU_064.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/RandomScans/BMU_065.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/RandomScans/BMU_066.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/RandomScans/BMU_067.jpg

Note:These scans are from the Blockbusters of The Marvel Universe.I borrowed my brother's USB containing this file.So the scans aren't really mine

Originally posted by Igniz
Because JLA/Avengers is no longer mentioned in the appendix section of Blockbusters of the Marvel Universe.Blockbusters of the Marvel Universe was published in January 26, 2011 making it more current than any of the comic books that came out.Yet the Marvel Vs DC event was mentioned stating that Earth-616 was temporarily merged with DCU on Blockbusters of the Marvel Universe.There is also a detail of a crossover there known as "Megaverse Crossovers" were Superman battled Spiderman.Yet I can't find any mention of JLA/Avengers in the appendix section for some reason.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/RandomScans/BMU_063.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/RandomScans/BMU_064.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/RandomScans/BMU_065.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/RandomScans/BMU_066.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc412/igniz6/RandomScans/BMU_067.jpg

Note:These scans are from the Blockbusters of The Marvel Universe.I borrowed my brother's USB containing this file.So the scans aren't really mine
I don't understand what this proves? It clearly states :

Why doesn't JLA/Avengers fall into this category?

It's clearly canon according to multiple handbook entries and I believe it's even mentioned on panel involving Terminus but I haven't found the scan yet.

Why?

In short, because we said so. shrug

Honestly though, too many people try to use it to the exclusion of the character feats in their own universes, and it gets ridiculous.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why?

In short, because we said so. shrug

Honestly though, too many people try to use it to the exclusion of the character feats in their own universes, and it gets ridiculous.
Oh I can understand if Mods don't want it on the forums cause it causes a sh|tstorm, but it IS canon to both companies no?

Originally posted by zopzop
Oh I can understand if Mods don't want it on the forums cause it causes a sh|tstorm, but it IS canon to both companies no?

I believe, personally, that it is, yes.

I agree with PR's assessment.

Even if it's canon it's infinitely more convenient to keep any crossover-garbage off the forum.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I believe, personally, that it is, yes. Don't ever post and sentence like this again.

Originally posted by Badabing
Don't ever post and sentence like this again.

I'm sorry, was that supposed to be English?

He was just too filled with bloodlust to type properly...

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6633/7sx.gif

If you believe JLA/Avengers is canon for Marvel, that's perfectly fine, many others don't. I don't think it's ever been referenced in a Marvel comic though. That being said, using handbooks for conclusive evidence is about as faulty as using them for power levels. Like I told you earlier, shit like Marvel vs. Capcom was referenced in Shuma's entry IIRC and so on.

For me, the biggest thing that swung me to my position was Busiek saying it takes place in that Hostess Pie Universe when asked about continuity. I remember there being more said and how he didn't care about current line-ups and wanted to do a classic Avengers/JLA crossover etc. but I'd have to find the quotes as it's been a while.

If JLA/Avengers were canon in the literal sense, then Marvel(and DC) would be able to reference it, as well as the cross-company-characters involved, directly. Instead, they have to indirectly allude to the aforementioned in their bios. Clearly this means copyright laws are still very much intact-- and if one company cannot specifically mention the event/characters without being sued by the other company, then how can it possibly be dubbed 'canon'..?

I just chalk it up to cross-company shoutouts, personally. However, I do see your point-- the events of the Silver Surfer/Superman crossover were also indirectly mentioned in a Marvel bio, but I don't know if you could consider it 'canon' for the very same reasons. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
If JLA/Avengers were canon in the literal sense, then Marvel(and DC) would be able to reference it, as well as the cross-company-characters involved, directly. Instead, they have to indirectly allude to the aforementioned in their bios. Clearly this means copyright laws are still very much intact-- and if one company cannot specifically mention the event/characters without being sued by the other company, then how can it possibly be dubbed 'canon'..? https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2727748211/c3d0981ae770f926eedf4eda7505b006.jpeg

So just because, say, DC can't reference names like Galactus directly, but continue the story itself , then it's not canon because...they couldn't spell out Galactus?

To clarify:
I don't believe Marvel and DC can legally recognize cross-company stuff as canon-- that's why they can only allude to the events and characters, but cannot mention them directly. Where the forum is concerned, however, JLA/Avengers can certainly be argued as canon to Marvel IF handbook entries qualify as irrefutable evidence-- a notion which several people would likely contest.

I don't care either way, though. I'm perfectly happy assuming that Mxy can pop-into the Marvel universe any time he chooses(as Impossible Man's bio mentions.)

^Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That being said, using handbooks for conclusive evidence is about as faulty as using them for power levels. Like I told you earlier, shit like Marvel vs. Capcom was referenced in Shuma's entry IIRC and so on.
Debate-ender right here.

Originally posted by zopzop
I don't understand what this proves? It clearly states :

Why doesn't JLA/Avengers fall into this category?

It's clearly canon according to multiple handbook entries and I believe it's even mentioned on panel involving Terminus but I haven't found the scan yet.

Because Superman Vs Amazing Spiderman happened in a situation were the characters from DC and Marvel are interacting as if they've known each other.There was no separate universe in that crossover while JLA/Avengers, still retain the separate universe law.Ex Flash couldn't move fast in the Marvel Universe because speedforce doesn't exist there.The blockbuster of the marvel universe also clearly stated that earth-616 temporarily merged with DCU.But before the merger of Marvel and DC, fights happened there like Hulk Vs Superman,Wolverine Vs Lobo and etc.And Blockbuster of the Marvel Universe clearly states that the marvel characters that fought in that crossover are from earth-616.If that is the case, would Storm beating Wonderwoman be legit as evidence in the forums?And again, BMU is current compared to the handbooks you referenced.And since JLA/Avengers isn't mentioned in it despite crossovers like Marvel Vs DC and Superman Vs Spiderman are mentioned there only indicates that its not canonical.And Tom Brevoort also mentioned in Formspring that JLA/Avengers isn't canonical.

Looks like the zop is on the other foot now.

Good work everybody except zop and philzop

Originally posted by -Pr-
I believe, personally, that it is, yes.

Originally posted by Galan007
If JLA/Avengers were canon in the literal sense, then Marvel(and DC) would be able to reference it, as well as the cross-company-characters involved, directly. Instead, they have to indirectly allude to the aforementioned in their bios. Clearly this means copyright laws are still very much intact-- and if one company cannot specifically mention the event/characters without being sued by the other company, then how can it possibly be dubbed 'canon'..?

I just chalk it up to cross-company shoutouts, personally. However, I do see your point-- the events of the Silver Surfer/Superman crossover were also indirectly mentioned in a Marvel bio, but I don't know if you could consider it 'canon' for the very same reasons. /shrug

Also the Surfer/Green Lantern crossover was referenced in a Thanos storyline (actually it was essential to explain how Thanos got to where he was).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I told you earlier, shit like Marvel vs. Capcom was referenced in Shuma's entry IIRC and so on.


You bullshittin'?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Also the Surfer/Green Lantern crossover was referenced in a Thanos storyline (actually it was essential to explain how Thanos got to where he was).

Was that the one where Thanos uses Terrax to attack Kyle Rayner or some sort of shenanigans? How was that used to reference a Thanos appearence? I it is that storyline I think it ended with him being sucked into the rift as the realities separated. (Parallax Hal being shot out into space or some sort of junk in the process)

Originally posted by Igniz
Because Superman Vs Amazing Spiderman happened in a situation were the characters from DC and Marvel are interacting as if they've known each other.There was no separate universe in that crossover while JLA/Avengers, still retain the separate universe law.Ex Flash couldn't move fast in the Marvel Universe because speedforce doesn't exist there.The blockbuster of the marvel universe also clearly stated that earth-616 temporarily merged with DCU.But before the merger of Marvel and DC, fights happened there like Hulk Vs Superman,Wolverine Vs Lobo and etc.And Blockbuster of the Marvel Universe clearly states that the marvel characters that fought in that crossover are from earth-616.If that is the case, would Storm beating Wonderwoman be legit as evidence in the forums?And again, BMU is current compared to the handbooks you referenced.And since JLA/Avengers isn't mentioned in it despite crossovers like Marvel Vs DC and Superman Vs Spiderman are mentioned there only indicates that its not canonical.And Tom Brevoort also mentioned in Formspring that JLA/Avengers isn't canonical.

Good point. Do you know where I can see Brevort saying that? I mean a site or scan, whatever.

Old thread!

Anyway, DC did reference the storyline directly- the cosmic egg created by it showed up again in a later JLA story.

The characters don't have memory of what happened, but the events happened and had an effect.


It's kinda like how Wildcats/Aliens killed Stormwatch. Blatantly canon, played into the start of the Authority, but they cannot directly show Xenomorphs or such, only say 'some alien monsters killed Stormwatch.'


Crossovers don't have to be non-canon, but even when they are, you can't directly refer to the other side of the crossover outside of it save in generic terms.

Oh yea, and Judge Dredd considers crossover canon. So Batman meeting Dredd? Happened.

I believe Spawn/Batman crossover was canon, too?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I believe Spawn/Batman crossover was canon, too?


On the Spawn side, quite possibly.


It's interesting that sometimes you get asymmetrical canons, where something is canon to one but not another.

Yeah, I'm aware of those. Honestly, I thought JLA/Avengers (or Marvel vs. DC) was canon only to DC. Turns out I was wrong?

Wasn't Spawn's famous facial scar the result of Bruce's batarang? That would make it canon for Spawn. He's appeared in many-many issues with it.

Where handbook evidence is concerned, the OHOTMU: Alternate Universes guidebook gives a specific numerical designation for the "Amalgam pocket universe" that was created during DC vs. Marvel #03 -- Earth-9602:
http://i.imgur.com/x4MrAVr.jpg
(outlined in red.)


So it would seem that Marvel regards that crossover as canon to some extent, as they do the "Amalgam Universe" material.

Originally posted by Galan007
Where handbook evidence is concerned, the OHOTMU: Alternate Universes guidebook gives a specific numerical designation for the "Amalgam pocket universe" that was created during DC vs. Marvel #03 -- Earth-9602:
http://i.imgur.com/x4MrAVr.jpg
(outlined in red.)


So it would seem that Marvel regards that crossover as canon to some extent, as they do the "Amalgam Universe" material.

That HOTU thing appear in some handbooks but Brevoort says It is not cannon, so I don't know.
Igniz here said Brevoort stated Marvel vs DC is not Canon too. I wish somebody could help me find Brevoort really saying this.

What Brevoort said in random interviews is irrelevant. He's a tard.


Also, the events of 'The End' have been shown/mentioned in multiple comics(not including Handbooks.) It is 100% canon.

Originally posted by Galan007
What Brevoort said in random interviews is irrelevant. He's a tard.


Also, the events of 'The End' have been shown/mentioned in multiple comics(not including Handbooks.) It is 100% canon.

Yeah Brevoort is pretty ****ed up, hard to take his word lol
That event has indeed being mentioned in comics and I think two times or more.

But I would still like to see Brevoort saying something about JLA/Avengers, do you know something about?

Originally posted by Galan007
What Brevoort said in random interviews is irrelevant. He's a tard.


Also, the events of 'The End' have been shown/mentioned in multiple comics(not including Handbooks.) It is 100% canon.

Those 'The End' series are all canon? I don't see how that's possible...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Those 'The End' series are all canon? I don't see how that's possible... No, no. I'm only talking about Marvel: The End:
http://i.imgur.com/MOGVM4hl.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
No, no. I'm only talking about Marvel: The End:
http://i.imgur.com/MOGVM4hl.jpg

Oh thank ****, because that X-Men series was awful.

Originally posted by Galan007

If JLA/Avengers were canon in the literal sense, then Marvel(and DC) would be able to reference it, as well as the cross-company-characters involved, directly. Instead, they have to indirectly allude to the aforementioned in their bios. Clearly this means copyright laws are still very much intact-- and if one company cannot specifically mention the event/characters without being sued by the other company, then how can it possibly be dubbed 'canon'..?

I just chalk it up to cross-company shoutouts, personally.
... That's always been my stance.

In JLA/Avengers ... Marvel and DC were part of the same Multiverse.

Note that stuff can be canon, and still never mentioned again. Consider all the little one-shot villains and such.

I pointed out all of this to the forum like a decade ago in some of my very first posts. lol.