Who is the most powerful Low Herald of all? Magneto vs Jack of Hearts...

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



TheLordofMurder
Two of the most powerful (maybe THE two most powerful) Low Heralds battle to the Death or KO with no BFR allowed to see who's the greatest of the Low Herald Tier...

Battle in a relatively neutral area; a small country town with normal metals present, but not a huge amount; a small power plant (non nuclear; burns coal) is the technologically most advanced thing within 200 miles...

Who wins?

Digi
Hate to go outside the OP, but Dr. Doom is currently listed as low herald, which is absolutely criminal imo. I have no idea how he isn't mid. But if we go by the tiers thread in this forum, there's your answer, not these two jokers.

Estacado
Awesome Havok sig Digimaestro......

Digi
Originally posted by Estacado
Awesome Havok sig Digimaestro......

Thanks dude. My first in a while, so I was happy with how it turned out.

happy

carver9
Magneto wins since he is a high Herald and like the Sig Digi.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Digi
Hate to go outside the OP, but Dr. Doom is currently listed as low herald, which is absolutely criminal imo. I have no idea how he isn't mid. But if we go by the tiers thread in this forum, there's your answer, not these two jokers.

By all means, I'd love to see a scan of Doom matching (let alone exceeding) the raw power output of either of these guys sans prep and under his own power...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by carver9
Magneto wins since he is a high Herald and like the Sig Digi.

Sure...

He is a High Herald that would be bested by a large majority of the Mid Herald Tier...

Would you like me to ressurect that post so we can debate Mags vs the various Mid Heralds featured in that thread?

Estacado
Originally posted by Digi
Thanks dude. My first in a while, so I was happy with how it turned out.

happy
It is great!
Now revamp the Havok respect thread...uhuh

TheLordofMurder
@Digi

In the following comic, Jack of Hearts recharged a dying star under his own power; Doom cant do anything close to this under his own power...

curryman
lmao, these two jokes?

I see Loki, Cassandra Nova, Makkari, Mr.M, Ronan, Isis, Graviton, Manchester Black, MEGGAN, Nimrod, Ravenous, Ultron and several others that I would put well above Magneto, Doom or Jack of Hearts.

carver9
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Sure...

He is a High Herald that would be bested by a large majority of the Mid Herald Tier...

Would you like me to ressurect that post so we can debate Mags vs the various Mid Heralds featured in that thread?

Lol...there are some mid Heralds that could best High Heralds. Then, some people that YOU think are Mid Herald (like Black Adam, Captain Marvel, etc...) are high Heralds. Magneto wins this buddy.

Digi
I think it's been fairly well-established that Mags could easily be in mid herald, but that he's not out of place at low (he's just at or near the top of the tier), and he's definitely not HH.

Didn't know about the JoH sun-charging thing. He normally doesn't seem that uber.

Originally posted by Estacado
It is great!
Now revamp the Havok respect thread...uhuh

Most of the scans actually still work. It's a lot better off than most. But I'm just using him in the tourney...I don't have much in my own collection that wouldn't be covered in the respect thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Magneto wins since he is a high Herald and like the Sig Digi.

Thanks. thumb up

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
By all means, I'd love to see a scan of Doom matching (let alone exceeding) the raw power output of either of these guys sans prep and under his own power...

Raw power isn't the only gauge I'm using here. The tiers are about all forms of power and capabilities, not just raw output. That said, the tiers are sans prep, so it does hurt Doom somewhat here. I still think he's pushing the tier limit as much as these two. His mix of technological and mystical powers, added to his best showings against a variety of top heralds, and it's a compelling case.

At the very least, if you turned this into a 3-way match, I think he'd have to be the other one in the discussion.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...there are some mid Heralds that could best High Heralds. Then, some people that YOU think are Mid Herald (like Black Adam, Captain Marvel, etc...) are high Heralds. Magneto wins this buddy.

Ummm...I dont "think" they are Mid Heralds; KMC does as per the tierings here (which I specifically stated in the thread we are talking about)...you really should think about what you say before speaking! Happy Dance

Pray tell; how does Mags beat Jack of Hearts?

Estacado
Yeah but the last scan was like Havok vs Vulcan which happened like 4 years ago

curryman
Just can't get past how badly Thor trashes Doom.

Not to mention that these two guys are SORELY lacking outside of the VS-category. And the entire point of the HH category, from what I understood, are that they're a group who generally push into Trans when performing at the top of their ability.

Magneto in such a category, just no.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by curryman
lmao, these two jokes?

I see Loki, Cassandra Nova, Makkari, Mr.M, Ronan, Isis, Graviton, Manchester Black, MEGGAN, Nimrod, Ravenous, Ultron and several others that I would put well above Magneto, Doom or Jack of Hearts.

Ok...

Jack of Hearts has the star recharging feat along with a good showing against Depowered Tyrant...

What do the others have to compare?

Digi
Originally posted by Estacado
Yeah but the last scan was like Havok vs Vulcan which happened like 4 years ago

True enough.

Originally posted by curryman
lmao, these two jokes?

I see Loki, Cassandra Nova, Makkari, Mr.M, Ronan, Isis, Graviton, Manchester Black, MEGGAN, Nimrod, Ravenous, Ultron and several others that I would put well above Magneto, Doom or Jack of Hearts.

At least with Loki, it's his Ultimate version iirc. Not sure what Graviton is doing there though. You may be right on a few of these.

{edit} yeah, 616 Loki is in mid herald, as he should be.

TheLordofMurder
@Digi

I agree with you that, taken as a whole (even sans prep), Doom is a beast...

But without prep (even at his best sans prep) I fail to see him being as powerful as these two at their best sans prep...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Digi
True enough.



At least with Loki, it's his Ultimate version iirc. Not sure what Graviton is doing there though. You may be right on a few of these.

{edit} yeah, 616 Loki is in mid herald, as he should be.

Theoretically Graviton is an absolute beast, but even at his best, he doesnt have the same level of feats under his belt that JoH does...

Inaddition, Gravitons intellectual level reduces his potential by quite a bit...

curryman
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ok...

Jack of Hearts has the star recharging feat along with a good showing against Depowered Tyrant...

What does the others have to compare?
Are we putting Ganymede in high also? Along with Terrax? Because they hit Tyrant once or twice?

Originally posted by Digi

At least with Loki, it's his Ultimate version iirc. Not sure what Graviton is doing there though. You may be right on a few of these.

{edit} yeah, 616 Loki is in mid herald, as he should be.

Ah yeah, good to see Loki in mid.

Cassandra Nova virtually tore apart the shi'ar guard AND the x-men. Not to mention that she had far more going for her than simple telepathy. She beat effortlessly beat Xavier w/cerebra, and they're the same category.

Ravenous (With the opposing force) was doing well against Surfer, handling Skrull like it was nothing and beating Ronan for the 2nd time up until Ronan sacrificed his hammer in that awesome move.

Nimrod, long history of dealing with high-metas/destroying Juggernaut.

Ultron, does way better against Thor+Avengers than Magneto or Doom wishes they could.

Fugging Makkari would tear these two apart.

And so on.

The only thing Doom and Magneto have going for them is popularity, which gives them a couple of good showings, yet I don't see how they'd ever compete on the level of Surfer, Superman, Thor outside some highly dubious VS showings. These guys are continental at best and they're moving into a domain filled with people who literally can tear planets apart with their hands.

carver9
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ummm...I dont "think" they are Mid Heralds; KMC does as per the tierings here (which I specifically stated in the thread we are talking about)...you really should think about what you say before speaking! Happy Dance

Pray tell; how does Mags beat Jack of Hearts?

Magneto has numerous of ways. Lets not pretend Magneto is only about controlling metal. Also, based off fts, Magneto is more powerful.

zopzop
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ok...

Jack of Hearts has the star recharging feat along with a good showing against Depowered Tyrant...

What do the others have to compare?
Go LoM go! smile

You know I have a soft spot for good ol' Jack. I mean he gets no respect but he IS a legit herald level character : FTL travel speed, able to survive in a vacuum, got that "computer mind", energy projection enough to repower a dying star, etc...

I'm giving it to Jack (but I'm obviously biased toward him and proud!).

PS His Zero Fluid Energy WRECKED the Marvel Zombies and he was able to use it to reverse the zombification process. Phuck you Magneto!

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by carver9
Magneto has numerous of ways. Lets not pretend Magneto is only about controlling metal. Also, based off fts, Magneto is more powerful.

Bullcrap...

JoH has recharged a star...

And Mags has?


JoH was actually affecting Tyrant with his attacks (albeit he had no chance whatsoever of actually beating Tyrant)...

And Mags has?


I fully doubt that Mags highs are on par with JoH's highs...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
Go LoM go! smile

You know I have a soft spot for good ol' Jack. I mean he gets no respect but he IS a legit herald level character : FTL travel speed, able to survive in a vacuum, got that "computer mind", energy projection enough to repower a dying star, etc...

I'm giving it to Jack (but I'm obviously biased toward him and proud!).

PS His Zero Fluid Energy WRECKED the Marvel Zombies and he was able to use it to reverse the zombification process. Phuck you Magneto!

thumb up


@Carver

What does Mags have to counter this?

TheLordofMurder
@Curryman

Gany's weapon was made specifically to harm Tyrant; that had nothing to do with her actual power level...

And JoH did outperform Terrax against Tyrant...

None of them belong in the High Herald tier of course, but the above is factual...

And I really doubt any of the characters you mentioned could do what JoH has proven capable of nor would Ultron or Nimrod be able to make Tyrant flinch like JoH did...

carver9
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
thumb up


@Carver

What does Mags have to counter this?

Lol...I guess Hulk is light speed as well since he blitzed the hell out of JOH...to the point that he couldn't react.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Stats/SavageHulkLeap11214.jpg.html

TheLordofMurder
@zopzop

Do you mind posting that scan of JoH affecting Tyrant with his attacks during Cosmic Powers?

I cant seem to locate my scan of it...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I guess Hulk is light speed as well since he blitzed the hell out of JOH...to the point that he couldn't react.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Stats/SavageHulkLeap11214.jpg.html

Great, so you have nothing from MAGNETO thats greater than JoH best...

Thanks for the concession!

Happy Dance

carver9
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Bullcrap...

JoH has recharged a star...

And Mags has?


JoH was actually affecting Tyrant with his attacks (albeit he had no chance whatsoever of actually beating Tyrant)...

And Mags has?


I fully doubt that Mags highs are on par with JoH's highs...

Magneto has taken on teams...consistently.

Lol...what does affecting Tyrant have to do with this match. JOH isn't busting through Magneto shields anytime soon, if at all.

JOH highs sucks. Magneto shields withstood attacks from Galactus and he has defeated Jean who was possessed by the Phoenix.

carver9
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Great, so you have nothing from MAGNETO thats greater than JoH best...

Thanks for the concession!

Happy Dance

Some of Zop Zop points were irrelevant. Magneto is above JOH based off fts.

curryman
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Curryman

Gany's weapon was made specifically to harm Tyrant; that had nothing to do with her actual power level...

And JoH did outperform Terrax against Tyrant...

None of them belong in the High Herald tier of course, but the above is factual...

And I really doubt any of the characters you mentioned could do what JoH has proven capable of nor would Ultron or Nimrod be able to make Tyrant flinch like JoH did...

No one sans Thanos was able to affect Tyrant the way Jack of Hearts did.

Therein lies the problem of basing his placement off of that one fight. Unless Jack ranges above a good part of the marvel mid/high herald category, which he obviously does not.

Hawkman's one hammer-blow did more damage to Despero's face than any of the other league and society guys. He is still not in the high herald category.

The characters I mentioned have legit wins against characters higher up, that and most of them would absolutely demolish Jack in a fight. He has a very comfortable placement in the low-herald category, and he's not even in the top of that category. You could lay out some threads and test the waters if you want, see where people place him.

Going into mid-herald takes more than a couple of OK feats.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by carver9
Magneto has taken on teams...consistently.

Lol...what does affecting Tyrant have to do with this match. JOH isn't busting through Magneto shields anytime soon, if at all.

JOH highs sucks. Magneto shields withstood attacks from Galactus and he has defeated Jean who was possessed by the Phoenix.

Right...

Because a blast of energy potent enough to recharge a star simply cant get though Magneto's almighty shielding...

laughing out loud

Happy Dance

curryman
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Right...

Because a blast of energy potent enough to recharge a star simply cant get though Magneto's almighty shielding...

Consider that Thor has effortlessly recharged dying suns,

and needed more than one hit to get through Magneto's shields.

carver9
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Right...

Because a blast of energy potent enough to recharge a star simply cant get though Magneto's almighty shielding...

laughing out loud

Happy Dance

Are we basing this off single high showings? Based off both of their history...don't see why you are voting for jack. If we are going by single showings then, Magneto creates a black hole and suck JOH in it. If we are going by high showings, then Magneto manipulates the energy in JOH like he did proteus. I can go on for days with this. Just stop LOM.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by curryman
Consider that Thor has effortlessly recharged dying suns,

and needed more than one hit to get through Magneto's shields.

When has Thor "effortlessly" recharged dying "suns?"

I really want to see the scans of that; I cant recall that at all...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by carver9
Are we basing this off single high showings? Based off both of their history...don't see why you are voting for jack. If we are going by single showings then, Magneto creates a black hole and suck JOH in it. If we are going by high showings, then Magneto manipulates the energy in JOH like he did proteus. I can go on for days with this. Just stop LOM.

I'm not going off just that feat...

Do you really think Mags could do anything whatsoever to Tyrant?

Do you really think Mags would outperform JoH against Tyrant?

You already know the answer to these questions; Mags couldnt do anything to Tyrant...

Also, Tyrant>>>>>>>>Proteus

JoH wins....

TheLordofMurder
@Carver

At current, KMC disagrees with you; JoH wins...

carver9
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I'm not going off just that feat...

Do you really think Mags could do anything whatsoever to Tyrant?

Do you really think Mags would outperform JoH against Tyrant?

You already know the answer to these questions; Mags couldnt do anything to Tyrant...

Also, Tyrant>>>>>>>>Proteus

JoH wins....

Do you think JOH can beat Phoenix? Do you think JOH could fight the Avengers and have an advantage on them (which included Thor)? Can't see JOH besting Proteus either.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by carver9
Do you think JOH can beat Phoenix? Do you think JOH could fight the Avengers and have an advantage on them (which included Thor)? Can't see JOH besting Proteus either.

So you agree that Tyrant is greater than Phoenix, the Avengers, and Proteus then...

JoH Highs>>>Mags Highs.

curryman
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
So you agree that Tyrant is greater than Phoenix, the Avengers, and Proteus then...

JoH Highs>>>Mags Highs.

So JoH's high is dealing damage to someone where as Magneto's highs are beating someone?

abhilegend
Magnus wins. Space cheese isn't that relevant in fights. Captain Mar-vell also absorbed and released enough energy to create a new star. Didn't help him when Namor bashed his face in with two punches. How about smart drax? Ripped the core out of a star and made it go nova. She-hulk was beating his ass and he accepted that she was much stronger than him.

curryman
And the line of reasoning that harming someone high up on the chain automatically puts you way above anyone else...

abhilegend
Originally posted by curryman
And the line of reasoning that harming someone high up on the chain automatically puts you way above anyone else...
Yeah, GoH took more damage than ****ing silver surfer. Its an extreme outlier.

zopzop
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@zopzop

Do you mind posting that scan of JoH affecting Tyrant with his attacks during Cosmic Powers?

I cant seem to locate my scan of it...
This?
http://imageshack.us/a/img37/4600/cosmicpowers06tyrantpag.th.jpg
Originally posted by carver9
Magneto has taken on teams...consistently.

Lol...what does affecting Tyrant have to do with this match. JOH isn't busting through Magneto shields anytime soon, if at all.

JOH highs sucks. Magneto shields withstood attacks from Galactus and he has defeated Jean who was possessed by the Phoenix.
Magneto beat a CRIPPLED Jean :
http://s14.postimg.org/469voaca5/psychic_ciruit_breakers.jpg

leonidas
all i know is it certainly isn't joh. he's got good output, but his energy is easily absorbed by many and almost anyone in the tier is capable of ko'ing him and/or puncturing his suit taking him out. i personally don't see him as being able to get through mag's shields and there is at least a chance mags could directly affect his energy, forgetting about the metal that is used to create joh's body armor/costume.

"Id"
Magneto

pym-ftw
Ultron via Tier Thread with ease

Magneto between these two

carver9
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
So you agree that Tyrant is greater than Phoenix, the Avengers, and Proteus then...

JoH Highs>>>Mags Highs.

Don't understand your logic or what you are trying to get at here.

Digi
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Ultron via Tier Thread with ease

Magneto between these two

Depends on which version. I feel like him in LH is a bit dated, and may not reflect things like Phalanx Ultron and such.

pym-ftw
I'd say any Ultron except the one non adamantium is in the least a midherald, but yeah Phalanx Ultron was a legitimately Trans character

753
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Sure...

He is a High Herald that would be bested by a large majority of the Mid Herald Tier...

Would you like me to ressurect that post so we can debate Mags vs the various Mid Heralds featured in that thread? name the mid heralds to beat him

oh and magneto wins, of course

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by 753
name the mid heralds to beat him

oh and magneto wins, of course

I'll do one better; I'll bump the thread in question so you can see for yourself...

This will also give Carver the opportunity to argue why Mags should be a High Herald...

TheLordofMurder
@curryman

I am still waiting on that scan of Thor effortlessly recharging dead stars as you attempted to use that as "evidence" that JoH couldnt take down Mags shielding...

TheLordofMurder
Thanks for the scan zopzop! thumb up

@Carver

You say that Mags has better feats than JoH?

I call BS; I shall patiently wait on a scan from you of Mags besting the following...ok?

nwg202
where does Magneto's dreaming celestial feat rank? How impressive is that?

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by nwg202
where does Magneto's dreaming celestial feat rank? How impressive is that?

Was a fully powered, uncompromised, Tiamut resisting Magneto?

And uncompromised Tyrant was being harmed by JoH; night and day difference...

carver9
Like I said before, Magneto CONSISTENT display of power puts him above JOH...lol at you using one scene as proof of JOH being on Mags level. I'm literally clapping for you.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by carver9
Magneto shields withstood attacks from Galactus
Never happened.
Originally posted by carver9
and he has defeated Jean who was possessed by the Phoenix.
That was Xorn.

zopzop
Originally posted by carver9
Like I said before, Magneto CONSISTENT display of power puts him above JOH...lol at you using one scene as proof of JOH being on Mags level. I'm literally clapping for you.
Carver, Magneto has more on panel appearances than JoH and has been around longer so we have to take what we can get from all of JoH's limited appearances.

Speaking of which, Jack's high DESTROYS Magneto's high :
http://s24.postimg.org/wksweyc5t/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/nly8o6hw1/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/qu2q1845t/image.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/73f393jtd/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/rc2gutj4h/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/uwyce1no1/image.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/ni90lo1sh/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/668o088b5/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/a7l5s5b81/image.jpg

curryman
Magneto beat Proteus.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
By all means, I'd love to see a scan of Doom matching (let alone exceeding) the raw power output of either of these guys sans prep and under his own power... Doom dropped Uatu while Uatu had the Cosmic Cube...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Doom dropped Uatu while Uatu had the Cosmic Cube...

Lets see the scans...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
Carver, Magneto has more on panel appearances than JoH and has been around longer so we have to take what we can get from all of JoH's limited appearances.

Speaking of which, Jack's high DESTROYS Magneto's high :
http://s24.postimg.org/wksweyc5t/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/nly8o6hw1/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/qu2q1845t/image.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/73f393jtd/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/rc2gutj4h/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/uwyce1no1/image.jpg

http://s24.postimg.org/ni90lo1sh/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/668o088b5/image.jpg http://s24.postimg.org/a7l5s5b81/image.jpg

thumb up

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Lets see the scans... Yes, I'm a huge liar

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/doom/FanFourWGCM06_17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/doom/FanFourWGCM06_18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/doom/FanFourWGCM06_19.jpg

zopzop
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yes, I'm a huge liar

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/doom/FanFourWGCM06_17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/doom/FanFourWGCM06_18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/doom/FanFourWGCM06_19.jpg
He had prep :
"Do you truly think I would be so careless as to challenge you without first considering every possible contingency?"

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by zopzop
He had prep :
"Do you truly think I would be so careless as to challenge you without first considering every possible contingency?" So you're of the opinion he put a nigh impenetrable cosmic alloy in his suit, and then took it out afterwards?

Plus, nothing was said of his blast, so there's that.

zopzop
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So you're of the opinion he put a nigh impenetrable cosmic alloy in his suit, and then took it out afterwards?

Plus, nothing was said of his blast, so there's that.
He said he planed for every possible contingency for the fight vs Uatu. So he had prep. It's not like he fell out of bed one day and said, "Let me go pick a fight with Uatu and see how it goes".

Branlor Swift
Which is irrelevant seeing as he leaves the tech inside his suit.

Mindset
Originally posted by zopzop
He said he planed for every possible contingency for the fight vs Uatu. So he had prep. It's not like he fell out of bed one day and said, "Let me go pick a fight with Uatu and see how it goes". http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/alba-ball-to-face.gif

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
He said he planed for every possible contingency for the fight vs Uatu. So he had prep. It's not like he fell out of bed one day and said, "Let me go pick a fight with Uatu and see how it goes".

thumb up

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Doom dropped Uatu while Uatu had the Cosmic Cube...

The fact that Doom had prep means that you have failed to show a scan of Doom matching (let alone exceeding) the raw power output of JoH or Mags sans prep and under his own power...

Concession accepted!

Happy Dance

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The fact that Doom had prep means that you have failed to show a scan of Doom matching (let alone exceeding) the raw power output of JoH or Mags sans prep and under his own power...

Concession accepted!

Happy Dance Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Which is irrelevant seeing as he leaves the tech inside his suit.

753
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Never happened.
. the energy backlash caused by xavier probing galactus mind destroyed their surroundings and magneto withstood it. did you just mean it wasnt really an attack?

753
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I'll do one better; I'll bump the thread in question so you can see for yourself...

This will also give Carver the opportunity to argue why Mags should be a High Herald... since youre the one claiming mags is a low herald beaten by everyone in the mid herald tier, sounds like you should back that up. magneto is one of the strongest mid heralds.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by 753
since youre the one claiming mags is a low herald beaten by everyone in the mid herald tier, sounds like you should back that up. magneto is one of the strongest mid heralds.

*takes another look at the poll results*

I am clearly not the only one that feels that way; most here feel that Mags will be beaten by Diana...

I am of the opinion that Diana could speed-blitz-kill Mags within the 1st microsecond of the fight (before Mags could even form the thought to raise his shielding) without effort; I can vividly see him failing against Wonder Woman as a result...


I see Mags failing to Sersi as well; if Mags 1st action is anything else but to raise shielding, he loses immediately to her matter manipulation (she can trasmute him to anything she can think of and Mags is a normal human physically; he wont be able to resist)...

If he is able to get his shielding up before she hits him with matter manip, she still have alot of options for taking Mags out such as trickery via illusions and raw, high powered, psionic attacks...

Of course if she wanted him dead, she could just transmute the air in the area into fire (which she once did) and outright kill Mags with the matter manip...

And of course, as I have mentioned, she has the durability to take and survive punishment; Mags does not...


I could keep going with reasons why I feel Mags loses to everyone in this gauntlet, but since it is a gauntlet and I feel that Sersi is as far as he gets in his best case senario, I see no reason to continue...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by 753
the energy backlash caused by xavier probing galactus mind destroyed their surroundings and magneto withstood it. did you just mean it wasnt really an attack?

Bah...

Their base (which was partially destroyed) took the brunt of the attack; that was not all Magneto...

753
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
*takes another look at the poll results*

I am clearly not the only one that feels that way; most here feel that Mags will be beaten by Diana...

I am of the opinion that Diana could speed-blitz-kill Mags within the 1st microsecond of the fight (before Mags could even form the thought to raise his shielding) without effort; I can vividly see him failing against Wonder Woman as a result...


I see Mags failing to Sersi as well; if Mags 1st action is anything else but to raise shielding, he loses immediately to her matter manipulation (she can trasmute him to anything she can think of and Mags is a normal human physically; he wont be able to resist)...

If he is able to get his shielding up before she hits him with matter manip, she still have alot of options for taking Mags out such as trickery via illusions and raw, high powered, psionic attacks...

Of course if she wanted him dead, she could just transmute the air in the area into fire (which she once did) and outright kill Mags with the matter manip...

And of course, as I have mentioned, she has the durability to take and survive punishment; Mags does not...


I could keep going with reasons why I feel Mags loses to everyone in this gauntlet, but since it is a gauntlet and I feel that Sersi is as far as he gets in his best case senario, I see no reason to continue... with CIS on, those 2 arent doing any of that anymore than he is shutting their brains down or ripping the iron in their blood in 0.01 seconds. Sersi's tp wont be getting to mags either.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by 753
with CIS on, those 2 arent doing any of that anymore than he is shutting their brains down or ripping the iron in their blood in 0.01 seconds. Sersi's tp wont be getting to mags either.

Heres the difference; ripping iron from their blood wont kill either of them...they both can take it.

Sersi has a long history of transmuting opponents with her matter manip; take a look at her respect thread and see it for yourself...

Sersi also can attack his mind directly; shielding wont stop that...

Diana doesnt always speed blitz, but she has speed blitzed alot through out her career; her taking Mags out immediately with this tactic is far from unreasonable....

Mindset
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The fact that Doom had prep means that you have failed to show a scan of Doom matching (let alone exceeding) the raw power output of JoH or Mags sans prep and under his own power...

Concession accepted!

Happy Dance Originally posted by Mindset
http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/alba-ball-to-face.gif

TheLordofMurder
@753

Look at it like this...

Mags 1st action; shut down Sersi's brain...

Sersi's 1st action transmute Mags into a frog (again, something she's actually done)...

Just to be fair, lets assume they go off at the exact same time; Sersi will eventually recover from Mags attack...Mags will never recover from her attack without someone helping him.

Sersi wins...

753
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Heres the difference; ripping iron from their blood wont kill either of them...they both can take it.

Sersi has a long history of transmuting opponents with her matter manip; take a look at her respect thread and see it for yourself...

Sersi also can attack his mind directly; shielding wont stop that...

Diana doesnt always speed blitz, but she has speed blitzed alot through out her career; her taking Mags out immediately with this tactic is far from unreasonable.... I very much doubt they'd be in fighting shape after an attack like that. reversing the bloodflow to their brains should neutralize them.

yeah I've seen it

it's his anti TP defenses Im talking about, not his force-fields. mag's tp shielding is among the best in comics. his arc-rival was xavier after all.

not for a majority IMO

Bentley
Sersi would turn Magneto into a pig effortless no expression

Kang is the most powerful low herald flirt

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by 753
I very much doubt they'd be in fighting shape after an attack like that. reversing the bloodflow to their brains should neutralize them.

yeah I've seen it

it's his anti TP defenses Im talking about, not his force-fields. mag's tp shielding is among the best in comics. his arc-rival was xavier after all.

not for a majority IMO

Neither of them would sit by idle while Magneto reverses the blood flow to their brains; see my previous post...

To be fair, Mags attempts to shut Sersi down at the exact same time Sersi transmutes him into a frog; Sersi recovers on her own...Mags does not...Sersi wins.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@753

Look at it like this...

Mags 1st action; shut down Sersi's brain...

Sersi's 1st action transmute Mags into a frog (again, something she's actually done)...

Just to be fair, lets assume they go off at the exact same time; Sersi will eventually recover from Mags attack...Mags will never recover from her attack without someone helping him.

Sersi wins...

thumb up

753
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Neither of them would sit by idle while Magneto reverses the blood flow to their brains; see my previous post...

To be fair, Mags attempts to shut Sersi down at the exact same time Sersi transmutes him into a frog; Sersi recovers on her own...Mags does not...Sersi wins. she'd just be koed

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by 753
she'd just be koed

I dont think so; Sersi has had brain mines detonated inside her skull and overcame them...

Reversing her blood flow aint KO'ing her:

TheLordofMurder
@753

Just face the facts; Sersi is too much for Mags...

He cant keep her down and all she has to do is land a single attack to finish him...

Sersi wins...


Edit: Btw, she fully recovers from having her arm atomized in the above scan...

zopzop
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@753

Just face the facts; Sersi is too much for Mags...

He cant keep her down and all she has to do is land a single attack to finish him...

Sersi wins...


Edit: Btw, she fully recovers from having her arm atomized in the above scan...
And here it is again, just in case the haters doubt :
http://s23.postimg.org/yc4qekn2v/luck.jpg
Sersi was ATOMIZED (like the rest of the Eternals) and she recovered.

PS Guys this is the wrong thread for this smile

753
Originally posted by zopzop
And here it is again, just in case the haters doubt :
http://s23.postimg.org/yc4qekn2v/luck.jpg
Sersi was ATOMIZED (like the rest of the Eternals) and she recovered.

PS Guys this is the wrong thread for this smile so she she wont recover in able time for the battle. good to know.

753
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@753

Just face the facts; Sersi is too much for Mags...

He cant keep her down and all she has to do is land a single attack to finish him...

Sersi wins...


Edit: Btw, she fully recovers from having her arm atomized in the above scan... those brain mines, whatever they are, sont seem the same thing at all

zopzop
Originally posted by 753
so she she wont recover in able time for the battle. good to know.
Guess you missed that part where it said Blaastar's blasts by SHEER LUCK were on the same frequency as their molecules that's what disintegrated them and took them so long to recover.

Magneto won't have that "luck".

YOu didn't even bother to read the scan did you?

Bentley
Good that you have this covered Zopzop, Sersi needs to be repped here, she's a beast.

753
Originally posted by zopzop
Guess you missed that part where it said Blaastar's blasts by SHEER LUCK were on the same frequency as their molecules that's what disintegrated them and took them so long to recover.

Magneto won't have that "luck".

YOu didn't even bother to read the scan did you? I did, it's just that your point has nothing whatsoever to do with what is being debated here. her reforming over a long time after desintegration does not support her tanking iron rip or CNS shut down and staying in the fight.

As for wether or not he could rip her apart as he did the neos, that would simply pin his power against hers in tug of war.

curryman
She's an eternal.

And she's displayed far greater durability than the Warclan guys that Magneto ripped apart.

zopzop
Originally posted by 753
I did, it's just that your point has nothing whatsoever to do with what is being debated here. her reforming over a long time after desintegration does not support her tanking iron rip or CNS shut down and staying in the fight.

As for wether or not he could rip her apart as he did the neos, that would simply pin his power against hers in tug of war.
So you DIDN'T read the scan. Because if you did you'd know the only reason the Eternals were disintegrated in the first place was because of the SHEER LUCK Blaastar had with his bio-energy attacks operating on the same frequency as the Eternals molecules.

This was the reason it took them so long to reform from being atomized.

What's the point of discussing this if you can't be bothered to read the proof scans and just make stuff up as you go along?

The point is Sersi, like all Eternals, can reform from ATOMIZATION and she's done it a few times on panel so it's not a one time thing.

She would wreck Magneto if she was serious.

Branlor Swift
Don't Eternals need their biochambers now to reform?

753
Originally posted by zopzop
So you DIDN'T read the scan. Because if you did you'd know the only reason the Eternals were disintegrated in the first place was because of the SHEER LUCK Blaastar had with his bio-energy attacks operating on the same frequency as the Eternals molecules.

This was the reason it took them so long to reform from being atomized.

What's the point of discussing this if you can't be bothered to read the proof scans and just make stuff up as you go along?

The point is Sersi, like all Eternals, can reform from ATOMIZATION and she's done it a few times on panel so it's not a one time thing.

She would wreck Magneto if she was serious. I know you get kind of retarded when debating zopzop, but do you seriously not follow the conversation here? she cant regenerate massive damage instantly, so that scan doesnt show she could tank iron rip or cns shutdown, it is unrelated to the topic.

as for the fatc that blastaar's blast wouldnt have desintegrated them if not for its frquency, that also has nothing to do with magneto using either attack on her, or even ripping her apart a la warclan.

753
Originally posted by curryman
She's an eternal.

And she's displayed far greater durability than the Warclan guys that Magneto ripped apart. she probably has, I'm not gonna go check those guys feats. I'm debating a principle here.

curryman
Originally posted by 753
she probably has, I'm not gonna go check those guys feats. I'm debating a principle here.
Eternal physiology is different to Neo physiology also.

I don't think those opponents are interchangeable.

What's the principle being debated here? :P

zopzop
Originally posted by 753
I know you get kind of retarded when debating zopzop, but do you seriously not follow the conversation here? she cant regenerate massive damage instantly, so that scan doesnt show she could tank iron rip or cns shutdown, it is unrelated to the topic.

as for the fatc that blastaar's blast wouldnt have desintegrated them if not for its frquency, that also has nothing to do with magneto using either attack on her, or even ripping her apart a la warclan.
Speaking of retarded.......

What part of "the only reason it took them so long to reform was because Blaastar's energy was on the same wavelength as their molecules"? Do you get it? I even provided the scan where the phucking character is EXPLAINING it to you in plain English.

They could have reformed MUCH sooner from atomization but for that little bit of luck on Blaastar's part.

Sersi would wreck Magneto and she has a host of ways to do it. Her TP is on the level of Exodus (at his best), her matter manip shielded her team from a universe busting attack, she's a master at casting illusions, her TK is no joke, and neither are her physical stats (she knocked Hercules the phuck out), not to mention her natural durability and total control over her molecular structure.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
Speaking of retarded.......

What part of "the only reason it took them so long to reform was because Blaastar's energy was on the same wavelength as their molecules"? Do you get it? I even provided the scan where the phucking character is EXPLAINING it to you in plain English.

They could have reformed MUCH sooner from atomization but for that little bit of luck on Blaastar's part.

Sersi would wreck Magneto and she has a host of ways to do it. Her TP is on the level of Exodus (at his best), her matter manip shielded her team from a universe busting attack, she's a master at casting illusions, her TK is no joke, and neither are her physical stats (she knocked Hercules the phuck out), not to mention her natural durability and total control over her molecular structure.

thumb up

At this point I think 753 is arguing just for the sake of arguing; its pretty clear that Sersi is beyond Mags and we have backed up that stance with both scans and concrete bullet points...

Even carver9 has given up the Magneto crusade here and that says alot...

753
Originally posted by zopzop
Speaking of retarded.......

What part of "the only reason it took them so long to reform was because Blaastar's energy was on the same wavelength as their molecules"? Do you get it? I even provided the scan where the phucking character is EXPLAINING it to you in plain English.

They could have reformed MUCH sooner from atomization but for that little bit of luck on Blaastar's part.
facepalmall the scan shows is that blastaar got lucky to disperse them and the dispersion took a long a time to recover from, that's it. nothing indicates she'd do it faster if she'd been atomized by sheer force, instead of just the right energy pulse, nor does that indicate she has the damage soak and HF to overcome ironrip or CNS shutdown midbattle. if you want to post more damage soak and hf feats, go ahead.

haha do you want to argue exodus would mindrape magnus ftw? is that it? and no she isn't on par with exodus at his strongest (bloodties), just look at their encounter when he was not, at all, at his strongest.

there's no such thing as absolute control over one's molecules either, if that were the case, she'd never be injured. any atempt to wreck each other's innards, if resisted on time, would simply pit them in a tug of war.

are we in the business of listing powers now? magneto has forcefields; energy manipulation/blasting; monster EMPs; physiology manipulation; superhuman reaction speed at baseline; physical stat amping whenever channeling his powers (his durabiltiy isn't human at all, this is absurd); can manipulate the masses of mountain ranges, large asteroids and tectonic plates and draw power from stars and planets across the galaxy. big so what?

Sersi is not a class above him, no matter how much you want her to be.

753
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
thumb up

At this point I think 753 is arguing just for the sake of arguing; its pretty clear that Sersi is beyond Mags and we have backed up that stance with both scans and concrete bullet points...

Even carver9 has given up the Magneto crusade here and that says alot... you have proven no such thing

zopzop
Originally posted by 753
facepalmall the scan shows is that blastaar got lucky to disperse them and the dispersion took a long a time to recover from, that's it. nothing indicates she'd do it faster if she'd been atomized by sheer force, instead of just the right energy pulse, nor does that indicate she has the damage soak and HF to overcome ironrip or CNS shutdown midbattle. if you want to post more damage soak and hf feats, go ahead.
Uhm that was the WHOLE POINT OF THE SCAN and it was even mentioned. Good Lord....



Nothing is "absolute" in comics, prove Magneto can overcome her control of her molecules assuming he can even get through her shields.

And don't go comparing high end feats vs Magneto and Sersi. You'll lose. Even aside from the time she shielded her teammates from a GALAXY BUSTING attack by turning them into inert matter, there was the time she shielded them from a UNIVERSE erasing attack. UNIVERSE, not galaxy, not planet, not solar system, UNIVERSE.

Or that time when eco-terrorists detonated a nuke in Canada and Shaman was forced to shunt entire chunks of the coastline into his pouch and Alpha Flight/The Avengers/Russian Guard + THOUSANDS of Canadians were stuck in the Void and had to navigate their way back out of the pouch. Sersi INDIVIDUALLY shielded the THOUSANDS of civilians protecting them from the interdimensional void and making sure they had a breathable environment and livable temperatures all the while mindlinking the three super teams and maintaining telepathic contact with Shaman who was in another dimension.

She's at least two tiers (Mid Herald) above Magneto who I don't even consider a low herald. He's an elite high meta at his best.

abhilegend
Sersi got knocked out by a kick from invisible woman.

stick out tongue

cdtm
Jack of Hearts is so uber, they put him in Deadly Hands of Kung Fu. Right alongside trans levelers like White Tiger and Daughters of the Dragon. smile

Being able to manipulate the em spectrum on a planetary scale pales to kung fu fighting.

Bentley
Originally posted by zopzop
Russian Guard

Winter Guard at the time I think, need to reread those comics.

zopzop
Originally posted by cdtm
Jack of Hearts is so uber, they put him in Deadly Hands of Kung Fu. Right alongside trans levelers like White Tiger and Daughters of the Dragon. smile

Being able to manipulate the em spectrum on a planetary scale pales to kung fu fighting.
I guess you missed the scans of Jack REIGNITING and REFUELING a STAR and being able to stagger Tyrant.

And speaking of scale :
http://spaceopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Scale-of-Planets-Compared-to-Our-Sun.bmp

See the difference between Magneto's "planetary" scale and Jack of Hearts "stellar" scale?

cdtm
Originally posted by zopzop
I guess you missed the scans of Jack REIGNITING and REFUELING a STAR and being able to stagger Tyrant.

And speaking of scale :
http://spaceopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Scale-of-Planets-Compared-to-Our-Sun.bmp

See the difference between Magneto's "planetary" scale and Jack of Hearts "stellar" scale?

I know Jacks uber.

But I thought it was funny JOH gets plugged into a series about kung fu fighting. Wonder how that creative conversation went?
Executive meddler: "Shang Chi and Iron Fist aren't pulling in the sales anymore. Kung Fu's one the way out. You know what we need? A cosmic baddass!"

Writer: "Why don't I just put them up against Galactus, while I'm at it?"

zopzop
Originally posted by cdtm
I know Jacks uber.

But I thought it was funny JOH gets plugged into a series about kung fu fighting. Wonder how that creative conversation went?
Executive meddler: "Shang Chi and Iron Fist aren't pulling in the sales anymore. Kung Fu's one the way out. You know what we need? A cosmic baddass!"

Writer: "Why don't I just put them up against Galactus, while I'm at it?"
Oooooh. My bad.

My sarcasm detector is weaksauce.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop

Uhm that was the WHOLE POINT OF THE SCAN and it was even mentioned. Good Lord....



Nothing is "absolute" in comics, prove Magneto can overcome her control of her molecules assuming he can even get through her shields.

And don't go comparing high end feats vs Magneto and Sersi. You'll lose. Even aside from the time she shielded her teammates from a GALAXY BUSTING attack by turning them into inert matter, there was the time she shielded them from a UNIVERSE erasing attack. UNIVERSE, not galaxy, not planet, not solar system, UNIVERSE.

Or that time when eco-terrorists detonated a nuke in Canada and Shaman was forced to shunt entire chunks of the coastline into his pouch and Alpha Flight/The Avengers/Russian Guard + THOUSANDS of Canadians were stuck in the Void and had to navigate their way back out of the pouch. Sersi INDIVIDUALLY shielded the THOUSANDS of civilians protecting them from the interdimensional void and making sure they had a breathable environment and livable temperatures all the while mindlinking the three super teams and maintaining telepathic contact with Shaman who was in another dimension.

She's at least two tiers (Mid Herald) above Magneto who I don't even consider a low herald. He's an elite high meta at his best.

thumb up

If we look at High Feats, Magneto looks very bad compared to Sersi; give up 753 and accept the facts...Sersi is clearly beyond Magneto.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
I guess you missed the scans of Jack REIGNITING and REFUELING a STAR and being able to stagger Tyrant.

And speaking of scale :
http://spaceopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Scale-of-Planets-Compared-to-Our-Sun.bmp

See the difference between Magneto's "planetary" scale and Jack of Hearts "stellar" scale?

thumb up

Magneto pales compared to Jack of Hearts...

Paul Calf
Jack of Hearts had his boots refitted by Moondragon!

-K-M-
Originally posted by Bentley

Kang is the most powerful low herald flirt

If the Master of the World isn't around cool

Bentley
Originally posted by -K-M-
Unless the Master of the World isn't around cool

That guy is mid meta uhuh

-K-M-
Originally posted by Bentley
That guy is mid meta uhuh

Mid meta man made master low herald run cool

Though, I wouldn't consider Kang low with all his tech.

curryman
This conversation should be moot considering Magneto's been depowered.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Mid meta man made master low herald run cool

Though, I wouldn't consider Kang low with all his tech.

KM we need your verdict on beatboks vs charlotte, everybody's panicking. big grin

-K-M-
Oh I thought you got someone else as I literally just got back today.

ODG
Originally posted by Digi
Hate to go outside the OP, but Dr. Doom is currently listed as low herald, which is absolutely criminal imo. I have no idea how he isn't mid. But if we go by the tiers thread in this forum, there's your answer, not these two jokers. QFT.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.