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Who takes it!?.

Tenebrous hasn't shown much feats.

Mace Windu wins.
Tenebrous doesn't have any significant combat feats.

Mace.

Up

Oh look, a Sith thread.

shit*

Mace

Mace.

Tenebrous, obviously. Saber advantage for Mace is negated by speed and power.

Mace takes it via being able to compete with sids, something there's no reason to think Tenenbrous can replicate.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Mace takes it via being able to compete with sids, something there's no reason to think Tenenbrous can replicate.

The usual. Debunked stances being spammed. I've proven that Mace cannot compete with Sidious. It's pretty simple. The movie contradicts it when it depicts Sidious having Mace at his mercy fifteen seconds into the fight, and Mace barely reacting to Sidious with the help of Kit Fisto.
The novel also shows how a massively amped Mace (as stated in the novel) was losing to Palpatine pretty hard when the Dark Lord fired Lightning, and Mace only survived because Palpatine feigned weakness to Anakin, which is indeed stated in Homing Beacon I think it was.
Palpatine can stomp baseline Mace as of ROTS. I'm not 200% opposed to a case for Windu, but I am 200% opposed to a case for Mace based on that quote that has been torn to shreds.

I get the impression that your definition of proof is a tad different from everyone else's.

Honestly, the "compete with Sidious" quote is likely to apply in terms of pure saber combat, which I think Tenebrous can definitely replicate.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
The usual. Debunked stances being spammed. I've proven that Mace cannot compete with Sidious. It's pretty simple. The movie contradicts it when it depicts Sidious having Mace at his mercy fifteen seconds into the fight, and Mace barely reacting to Sidious with the help of Kit Fisto.
The novel also shows how a massively amped Mace (as stated in the novel) was losing to Palpatine pretty hard when the Dark Lord fired Lightning, and Mace only survived because Palpatine feigned weakness to Anakin, which is indeed stated in Homing Beacon I think it was.
Palpatine can stomp baseline Mace as of ROTS. I'm not 200% opposed to a case for Windu, but I am 200% opposed to a case for Mace based on that quote that has been torn to shreds.



But... it's... Lucas's quote. And a pretty clear one at that (with the exception of the Anakin bit right after, which isn't as clear cut).

Originally posted by Darth Thor
But... it's... Lucas's quote. And a pretty clear one at that (with the exception of the Anakin bit right after, which isn't as clear cut).

The movie contradicts it. The movie>Lucas. Whatever Lucas says about the movie isn't valid if the thing itself contradicts it.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I get the impression that your definition of proof is a tad different from everyone else's.

How so? I have posted the quotes. Not in this thread, but on KMC and CV.

Originally posted by MythLord
Honestly, the "compete with Sidious" quote is likely to apply in terms of pure saber combat, which I think Tenebrous can definitely replicate.

Sidious had the tip of his blade milimeters away from Mace's chest when both combatants were stopped fifteen seconds into the fight... not seeing unamped Mace's competition with Sidious if Sidious could have killed Mace in fifteen seconds.

Originally posted by MythLord
Honestly, the "compete with Sidious" quote is likely to apply in terms of pure saber combat, which I think Tenebrous can definitely replicate.



Plus, I doubt Sidious could replicate his choking of Dooku, someone who should be either a peer or in the general range of power of Windu, against Tenebrous.

Windu's power is well beyond Dooku, kek

Dooku ain't beating Sidious

"Well beyond" based on what?

Mace on the basis of feats.

Banite scaling doesn't mean jacksh*t.

Mace, yeah.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
The movie contradicts it. The movie>Lucas. Whatever Lucas says about the movie isn't valid if the thing itself contradicts it.


You can say that about Filoni, but not Lucas. Star Wars was all him before Disney took over. So unless Disney has a sourcebook contradicting his statement, it still counts.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
"Well beyond" based on what?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0r4jNhG9Z4

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You can say that about Filoni, but not Lucas. Star Wars was all him before Disney took over. So unless Disney has a sourcebook contradicting his statement, it still counts.

The movie outright contradicts it. Isn't that enough? Lucas cannot override the movie, which was created not only by him, but by others.

I don't know why it's hard to understand that Mace is great against Dark Side users, they amp him so he can compete with them.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
The movie outright contradicts it. Isn't that enough? Lucas cannot override the movie, which was created not only by him, but by others.
It means your interpretation is wrong.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It means your interpretation is wrong.

My interpretation is wrong? How so? It's not very hard to see that Sidious had Mace at his mercy in fifteen seconds. Both combatants are stopped, Sidious' blade tip is right next to Mace's chest. The slightest thrust, Mace is dead. Mace has his saber next to his leg, so he can't get it up in time.

Sorry, Mace cannot compete with Sidious.

Sidious having the upper hand in the early fight but Mace having it in the later fight is not mutually exclusive.

Just watch boxing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sidious having the upper hand in the early fight but Mace having it in the later fight is not mutually exclusive.

Just watch boxing.

Mace never had the upper hand. It was a perfect stalemate between a holding back Sidious and massively amped Mace.

We're talking about the film, correct?

Mace isn't amped, and the argument that Sidious threw the fight does not exclude the notion Sidious was losing and would have been defeated.

Not that Mace is "amped" in the Legends version either, but that's a different story.

What made the fight retarded was the Way how Sidious killed three of the best Masters in a second, randomly, Mace was lucky he wasn't chosen as the first target as he was unable to react, like the others.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
The movie outright contradicts it. Isn't that enough? Lucas cannot override the movie, which was created not only by him, but by others.


Because he created the movie. Heck he created the whole Universe and the whole Canon (at the time). So it obviously isn't contradicting his statement. His statement is interpreting the film for us.

Lucas's statements were always G-Canon pre-Disney. It's for Disney (or Lucas) to Later contradict them otherwise they stand.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because he created the movie. Heck he created the whole Universe and the whole Canon (at the time). So it obviously isn't contradicting his statement. His statement is interpreting the film for us.

Lucas's statements were always G-Canon pre-Disney. It's for Disney (or Lucas) to Later contradict them otherwise they stand.

Yes, he created the movie, but if he enters in direct conflict with the source material itself, he does not override the source material that was created along with other people and is the highest thing in the canon hierarchy. Yes, he has authority, but not more canonicity than the movie itself. If the movie and Lucas contradict each other, we should go by the movie, which is the actual source material.

Where does the movie say Mace didn't stand a chance, again?

Originally posted by MythLord
Honestly, the "compete with Sidious" quote is likely to apply in terms of pure saber combat, which I think Tenebrous can definitely replicate.

1. Where does the quote specify saber combat?

2. What has Tenenbrous done to suggest to compete with Sidious as a duelist?

Originally posted by TenebrousWay


Plus, I doubt Sidious could replicate his choking of Dooku, someone who should be either a peer or in the general range of power of Windu, against Tenebrous.
Mace isn't tied to Dooku in anyway.

Additionally Tenebrous, like Plagueis, has jacksh!t giving him any sort of relativity with ROTS Sidious

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Yes, he created the movie, but if he enters in direct conflict with the source material itself, he does not override the source material that was created along with other people and is the highest thing in the canon hierarchy. Yes, he has authority, but not more canonicity than the movie itself. If the movie and Lucas contradict each other, we should go by the movie, which is the actual source material.
Again, there is no contradiction.

The dude who made this thread is the same guy who lead the forum Ant and I came from (SWF) who threatened to beat the shit out of Ant when Ant was 10, and blackmailed him into making a certain number of posts per day under threat of doxing him on porn websites.

Funny shit

Oh shit, I didn't even realize Sith made the thread. Man.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The dude who made this thread is the same guy who lead the forum Ant and I came from (SWF) who threatened to beat the shit out of Ant when Ant was 10, and blackmailed him into making a certain number of posts per day under threat of doxing him on porn websites.

Funny shit

kek

lmao

Mace absolutely shitstomps

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Again, there is no contradiction.

Yes there is. Lucas said Mace can compete yet Sidious could have killed him fifteen seconds into the fight.

Did you ignore my comment noting how Sidious winning early-game doesnt exclude the notion that Mace wins late-game?

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Yet Sidious could have killed him fifteen seconds into the fight.

https://i.imgur.com/QONVIyz.gif

You're just the gift that keeps on giving.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Did you ignore my comment noting how Sidious winning early-game doesnt exclude the notion that Mace wins late-game?

Sidious being able to kill Mace in the early game means that there won't be any late game if Sidious wants to kill Windu.

Originally posted by twotter
https://i.imgur.com/QONVIyz.gif

You're just the gift that keeps on giving.

Both combatants are stopped, Sidious has his blade pointed right at Windu's chest, centimeters away. Mace has his saber next to his leg. Mace does not have time to put his saber in front of his chest before Sidious' blade penetrates it.

It's just what is seen in the movie. If you don't like it, I'm sorry, movie is canon.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Both combatants are stopped, Sidious has his blade pointed right at Windu's chest, centimeters away. Mace has his saber next to his leg. Mace does not have time to put his saber in front of his chest before Sidious' blade penetrates it.

It's just what is seen in the movie. If you don't like it, I'm sorry, movie is canon.

Are you trying to say that Mace was incapable of parrying/avoiding Palpatine's thrust, because i think the movie disagrees with you.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Sidious being able to kill Mace in the early game means that there won't be any late game if Sidious wants to kill Windu.
You're ignoring that the outcomes of a fight can fluctuate. Just that Mace could last 15 seconds this time doesn't mean he can't last longer in a second encounter with him.

And this is all assuming we should be looking into and analyzing movie cheorgraphy

Originally posted by twotter
Are you trying to say that Mace was incapable of parrying/avoiding Palpatine's thrust, because i think the movie disagrees with you.

Mace did block Palpatine's thrust, but it wasn't Palpatine's intention to kill him anyway. If Palpatine did want to kill him, Mace would be dead. Did Palpatine want to kill Mace? No, so he obviously didn't try to stab Mace in the chest which would be fatal.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Mace did block Palpatine's thrust

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/41/9a/ca/419aca3d0d8547eb6b83ca02c00d7190.gif




You got some inside knowledge the rest of us don't..? Or even some not-seen-before authorial intent as proof? If no, refer to the gif above.



https://media.giphy.com/media/9UszFyJR2g4E0/giphy.gif

..
..
..
..
..
..

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-19-2015/2y4r8o.gif



He did. you just admitted above that Mace blocked it...

Originally posted by twotter
https://i.imgur.com/QONVIyz.gif

You're just the gift that keeps on giving.
movie/show?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
movie/show?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaZu15iJE94

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Yes there is. Lucas said Mace can compete yet Sidious could have killed him fifteen seconds into the fight.



His commentary contradicts your personal analysis only. But I think Lucas's analysis counts for a little more than yours.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
His commentary contradicts your personal analysis only. But I think Lucas's analysis counts for a little more than yours.
he said Mace seemed to win

Originally posted by twotter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaZu15iJE94
Thanks bro, rocky being in automatically piques my interest

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Sidious being able to kill Mace in the early game means that there won't be any late game if Sidious wants to kill Windu.

That's not my point. I'm going to break down the fight between Sidious and Mace for you to understand.

We'll be using this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0r4jNhG9Z4) as reference.

1:08 to 1:17: Walking into this fight, Mace is not expecting anything close to the level of ability Sidious immediately displays. He's completely unprepared for the shock and awe that is Sidious' style, which is reflected in his hesitant attacks toward Sidious. If you look at what Mace does, he is primarily probing at Sidious' defenses, overall uncommitted to launching any devastating offensive.

1:18 to 1:29: Mace is on a full-fledged retreat. He's not attacking Sidious - he's defending from Sidious' attacks. You have to consider that, while Sidious has been dreaming and preparing of a fight like this for his entire life, Mace hasn't. The Jedi just finally came to terms that Dooku is not the primary Sith Lord a few months before this fight. However, as the fights continues, Mace is visibly becoming more confident in his abilities, particularly at 1:25.

1:30: The moment you keep on citing. As noted before, Mace became more and more confident throughout the hallway sequence since Sidious' attacks weren't going anywhere. In this particular moment, Mace's arrogance reaches a point where he left himself open to an attack. That being said, the fact Sidious does not strike down Mace, Anakin aside, can easily be seen as a moment of arrogance on Sidious' part. Sidious is under the impression he, as a Sith Lord, is the blatantly superior fighter and can continue this fight for the shits and giggles, but as Mace comes into his own and Sidious' allusion of fear wears off, this changes.

1:31 to 1:37: Mace rebounds. There is no reason to believe Sidious is toying with Mace here. Lucas intentionally shot the fight the way he did so that we could see the facial expressions of the characters for this particular close-up. Sidious seems to want to be smiling, but he's not. He's in pain and is in a uncomfortable position. Mace has the upper hand here.

1:52 to 1:58: Here, Mace assumes a position of supremacy over Sidious, hence the hiss of hatred at the end. What I mean by that is Mace is now the one who is pushing Sidious toward the balcony, not the other way around. Sidious' visible expression of anger expresses this.

1:59 to 2:03: Mace is an offensive fighter. Here, finally, he's able to show what he can do. He launches what I'd consider the most effective straight-on assault in Star Wars. Sidious tries to change the flow of the fight with his Force-powered leaps and acrobatics, but notice he fails to and Mace continues his march toward the balcony. Sidious is visibly frustrated over his failed attempts to reassume the lead.

2:04 to 2:11: Sidious does pretty well here. He forces Mace to switch positions with him, but ultimately his offensive isn't working as effectively as it was toward the start of the fight.

2:12 to 2:18: Here's where Mace's late-game superiority is blatantly obvious. Sidious launches a final offensive, but Mace not only handles it, but then switches their positions as Sidious is attacking. It's incredible.

2:19 to 2:23: Mace's reassertion of territory ultimately ends the fight. Sidious is swiftly disarmed.

---

The idea of Sidious throwing the fight is not something that can be used as an actual argument, since it's never explicitly stated. That being said, you have the idea that Sidious letting Mace win and Mace being able to defeat Sidious are mutually exclusive. They're not. Sidious could have recognized that Mace was taking the advantage and opted to end the fight on his own terms (i.e. placing himself in a position where Mace would disarm him) rather than have the fight continue and be outright killed.

Otherwise, it just gets far too complicated. We know, for a fact, that Mace is in the same heavy-weight class as Sidious. George and Nick said so. Also, Gillard's statement that Mace is bordering 8 and 9 supports the idea he was losing early fight (as an 8) but gained the advantage late fight (as a 9). Anyway, the idea Sidious was "toying" with Mace is contracted by these comments. Clearly Mace can give Sidious a run for his money and perhaps even beat him, which is exactly what happens once he gets in the grove of things.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
he said Mace seemed to win


Who said?

Lucas said "this scene always started off with Mace overpowering Palpatine", and he said "You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor. Anakin could have defeated the Emperor had he not got all beat up."

The "seemed" to win comes from SW.COM

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Who said?

Lucas said "this scene always started off with Mace overpowering Palpatine", and he said "You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor. Anakin could have defeated the Emperor had he not got all beat up."

The "seemed" to win comes from SW.COM
Ah, fair enough then. I would seem in canon then, Mace is legitimately extremely close to Sidious, to the degree he can take wins. That being said, we have a multitude of quotes indicating Sidious is better, so we can reconcile this with Mace taking a minority victory.

Mace wins. Even if you try to attach circumstances to diminish his performance against Sidious (ie. he was amped, Sidious was holding back somewhat), which there isn't even ironclad evidence for, it still comes off as considerably better than anything Tenebrous has done. If he could put up a good performance against a Sith two steps above on the Banite Line, then it stands to reason that he'd prevail against Tenebrous, although not without a serious degree of resistance, of course.

Originally posted by lazybones
Mace wins. Even if you try to attach circumstances to diminish his performance against Sidious (ie. he was amped, Sidious was holding back), which there isn't even ironclad evidence for, it still comes off as considerably better than anything Tenebrous has done. If he could put up a good performance against a Sith two steps above on the Banite Line, then it stands to reason that he'd prevail against Tenebrous, although not without resistance of course.
That their are circumstances behind Mace stalemating/beating Sidious does not mean Mace can't legitimately compete with him by virtue of his own merit.

Tenenbrous looses via his inability to tank a close ranged explosion.

Originally posted by twotter
Tenenbrous looses via his inability to tank a close ranged explosion.

Whirling to the tunnel they had just exited and managing somehow to remain on his feet, Tenebrous conjured a Force shield with his waving arms that met the fireball and contained it, thousands of flaming hawk-bats spiraling within the tumult like windblown embers.

--Darth Plagueis

Originally posted by twotter
Tenenbrous looses via his inability to tank a close ranged explosion. Originally posted by Azronger
Whirling to the tunnel they had just exited and managing somehow to remain on his feet, Tenebrous conjured a Force shield with his waving arms that met the fireball and contained it, thousands of flaming hawk-bats spiraling within the tumult like windblown embers.

--Darth Plagueis

What explosion are you referring to?

Originally posted by Azronger
What explosion are you referring to?

An explosion where he isn't hilariously far away from the epicenter like he was in said mine.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
His commentary contradicts your personal analysis only. But I think Lucas's analysis counts for a little more than yours.

The movie matters more than Lucas. In the movie, it is seen that Palpatine has Mace at saberpoint. It is not just my analysis, it is what is seen in the movie. It is what happens. End. The movie matters more than Lucas, and I am going with the movie.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's not my point. I'm going to break down the fight between Sidious and Mace for you to understand.

We'll be using this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0r4jNhG9Z4) as reference.

1:08 to 1:17: Walking into this fight, Mace is not expecting anything close to the level of ability Sidious immediately displays. He's completely unprepared for the shock and awe that is Sidious' style, which is reflected in his hesitant attacks toward Sidious. If you look at what Mace does, he is primarily probing at Sidious' defenses, overall uncommitted to launching any devastating offensive.

1:18 to 1:29: Mace is on a full-fledged retreat. He's not attacking Sidious - he's defending from Sidious' attacks. You have to consider that, while Sidious has been dreaming and preparing of a fight like this for his entire life, Mace hasn't. The Jedi just finally came to terms that Dooku is not the primary Sith Lord a few months before this fight. However, as the fights continues, Mace is visibly becoming more confident in his abilities, particularly at 1:25.

1:30: The moment you keep on citing. As noted before, Mace became more and more confident throughout the hallway sequence since Sidious' attacks weren't going anywhere. In this particular moment, Mace's arrogance reaches a point where he left himself open to an attack. That being said, the fact Sidious does not strike down Mace, Anakin aside, can easily be seen as a moment of arrogance on Sidious' part. Sidious is under the impression he, as a Sith Lord, is the blatantly superior fighter and can continue this fight for the shits and giggles, but as Mace comes into his own and Sidious' allusion of fear wears off, this changes.

1:31 to 1:37: Mace rebounds. There is no reason to believe Sidious is toying with Mace here. Lucas intentionally shot the fight the way he did so that we could see the facial expressions of the characters for this particular close-up. Sidious seems to want to be smiling, but he's not. He's in pain and is in a uncomfortable position. Mace has the upper hand here.

1:52 to 1:58: Here, Mace assumes a position of supremacy over Sidious, hence the hiss of hatred at the end. What I mean by that is Mace is now the one who is pushing Sidious toward the balcony, not the other way around. Sidious' visible expression of anger expresses this.

1:59 to 2:03: Mace is an offensive fighter. Here, finally, he's able to show what he can do. He launches what I'd consider the most effective straight-on assault in Star Wars. Sidious tries to change the flow of the fight with his Force-powered leaps and acrobatics, but notice he fails to and Mace continues his march toward the balcony. Sidious is visibly frustrated over his failed attempts to reassume the lead.

2:04 to 2:11: Sidious does pretty well here. He forces Mace to switch positions with him, but ultimately his offensive isn't working as effectively as it was toward the start of the fight.

2:12 to 2:18: Here's where Mace's late-game superiority is blatantly obvious. Sidious launches a final offensive, but Mace not only handles it, but then switches their positions as Sidious is attacking. It's incredible.

2:19 to 2:23: Mace's reassertion of territory ultimately ends the fight. Sidious is swiftly disarmed.

---

The idea of Sidious throwing the fight is not something that can be used as an actual argument, since it's never explicitly stated. That being said, you have the idea that Sidious letting Mace win and Mace being able to defeat Sidious are mutually exclusive. They're not. Sidious could have recognized that Mace was taking the advantage and opted to end the fight on his own terms (i.e. placing himself in a position where Mace would disarm him) rather than have the fight continue and be outright killed.

Otherwise, it just gets far too complicated. We know, for a fact, that Mace is in the same heavy-weight class as Sidious. George and Nick said so. Also, Gillard's statement that Mace is bordering 8 and 9 supports the idea he was losing early fight (as an 8) but gained the advantage late fight (as a 9). Anyway, the idea Sidious was "toying" with Mace is contracted by these comments. Clearly Mace can give Sidious a run for his money and perhaps even beat him, which is exactly what happens once he gets in the grove of things.

Originally posted by twotter
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/41/9a/ca/419aca3d0d8547eb6b83ca02c00d7190.gif




You got some inside knowledge the rest of us don't..? Or even some not-seen-before authorial intent as proof? If no, refer to the gif above.



https://media.giphy.com/media/9UszFyJR2g4E0/giphy.gif

..
..
..
..
..
..

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-19-2015/2y4r8o.gif



He did. you just admitted above that Mace blocked it...

You act as if there was no context. Sidious let Mace block it. Not the same as Mace blocking it even if Sidious tried to stop it. You do know what context is, right?

In the movie only universe, it's logical to think Palpatine threw the fight. He wants to turn Anakin to the Dark Side, and the perfect way to do that is to pretend that the Jedi want to take over and make himself look a frail old man- thus, making the Jedi's actions look like cold-blooded assassination. If Palpatine had simply killed the Masters, Anakin would have attacked Palpatine or called other Jedi to arrest or kill Palpatine for the murders he committed.

When it comes to EU, the novel makes pretty obvious Sidious was not willing to kill Mace until Anakin was turned.

Yes, Palpatine did kill Mace when Mace was no longer useful. Anakin wasn't a Dark Sider during the saber fight, thus Palpatine still needed Mace alive for his plan to work. Anakin was already on his side in the GIF you posted, so Mace was no longer useful. We're talking about the saber fight, though. Palpatine's intentions in the saber fight are what matters.

Yes, I admitted Mace blocked it. But there is context to that. Circumstances that allowed that to happen. For example, Obi-Wan beat Anakin on Mustafar. Is it that simple? No, there were circumstances shaping the outcome of the fight. In the instance we're discussing, Mace did block the strike, but only because Palpatine allowed to. Which is made even more obvious when Palpatine is much faster than unamped Mace- Mace couldn't properly react to Palpatine and even with Kit Fisto for help could only randomly put his saber in front of his body (ROTS novel).

Originally posted by thesithmaster
Both combatants are stopped, Sidious has his blade pointed right at Windu's chest, centimeters away. Mace has his saber next to his leg. Mace does not have time to put his saber in front of his chest before Sidious' blade penetrates it. You might want to watch the fight again friend. Sidious' arm was completely extended and his legs weren't in a position to quickly drive him forward, which is to say they were mostly straight as he walked instead of being a slight crouch. Mechanically there is no way he can quickly drive his saber into Windu's chest. He'd have to use the Force to propel him, and given that Mace Windu can also use the force and has more room to maneuver his saber than Palpatine does (Palpatine moving his saber from where it already was would just make it harder to hit him), I don't really see any compelling reason to assume Palpatine could have easily killed Mace there.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You might want to watch the fight again friend. Sidious' arm was completely extended and his legs weren't in a position to quickly drive him forward, which is to say they were mostly straight as he walked instead of being a slight crouch. Mechanically there is no way he can quickly drive his saber into Windu's chest. He'd have to use the Force to propel him, and given that Mace Windu can also use the force and has more room to maneuver his saber than Palpatine does (Palpatine moving his saber from where it already was would just make it harder to hit him), I don't really see any compelling reason to assume Palpatine could have easily killed Mace there.

https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1476102372ra/20801988.gif

Exactly.

I don't even like using film choreography as talking point, given that it's restricted by the performance of actors (in this case; two rather sluggish gentlemen of advanced years) but based of it alone, there's no reason to believe that Sidious had Windu dead to rights at any point in their duel. Had anyone figured that Palpatine actually attempted to thrust at Windu here, but was out of range?

https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-09-2017/ByTT5C.gif

It's as you say. His arm is fully extended and he's already leant in. In order to kill him from that position, he has to thrust his entire body forward. There are plenty of options for Windu and ample time to react before that happens. The rest of Sithmasters rant is redundant if it's prefaced on his, now debunked, interpretation of fight choreography.

Originally posted by thesithmaster
The movie matters more than Lucas. In the movie, it is seen that Palpatine has Mace at saberpoint. It is not just my analysis, it is what is seen in the movie. It is what happens. End. The movie matters more than Lucas, and I am going with the movie.


No it's your personal interpretation of the movie.

And as has been stated above, there's no guarantee Palpatine could have stabbed Mace there. Now if Palpatine had Mace on the floor with a Saber to his chest then that'd be very different.

But when you're claiming George Lucas is wrong, and the movie is greater than Lucas, then you better have a damn good contradiction there to just completely dismiss Lucas's statement, which you clearly don't have.

At most you can claim Palpatine had the advantage at that point in the fight, which just means the fight went back and forth, so again doesn't contradict Lucas's statement in the least.

Originally posted by twotter
An explosion where he isn't hilariously far away from the epicenter like he was in said mine.

Alright, do you have evidence that is unable to shield himself from something like that?