Mace Windu Vs Maul Bros

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ROTJ Vader
So...we know Mace is quite a bit above these 2 1v1 but can he beat them together!?.

Lets go.

1.Sabers
2.Force
3.All-Out

ROTJ Vader
Maul Bros take a majority imo.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Truthfully idk who'd win. Although im leaning towards windu, considering obi wan was able to hold off and defeat them, plus mace's vaapad would help greatly.

Based
Mace all three.

DARTH POWER
Brothers win all 3, but with difficulty.


Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Truthfully idk who'd win. Although im leaning towards windu, considering obi wan was able to hold off and defeat them,

That was a one off. Same episode Kenobi fought Maul one on one and wasn't defeating him.

KuRuPT Thanosi
If kenobi can.. mace will do it and easier.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
If kenobi can.. mace will do it and easier.

Stop using a one off as proof. Because that's just BS and you know it.

The more relevant example is if Dooku can just barely take Opress and Ventress with the aid of Sith Lightning to continuously put Opress down, then no way is Mace going to solo Maul and Opress.

The gap between Dooku and Mace is small (if one even exists). The gap between Ventress and Maul however is significant.

ares834
Well Kenobi already beat them. Seems fairly obvious that Mace will be able to as well.

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Brothers win all 3, but with difficulty.

Would you agree Brothers 1 on 1 are quite a bit weaker then Mace but together they win like 7/10.

NewGuy01
In sabers this would be a close fight, in the Force it wouldn't be.

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by NewGuy01
In sabers this would be a close fight, in the Force it wouldn't be.

Well 1v1 Mace beats them with not much difficulty. But together they should take a majority.

NewGuy01
Did I disagree?

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Did I disagree?

I was agreeing with your post, buddy.

Vensai
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Brothers win all 3, but with difficulty.




That was a one off. Same episode Kenobi fought Maul one on one and wasn't defeating him.
He had the advantage befor Adi got killed. He created an opening after kicking Maul before he went after Savage.

Intrepid37
Brothers in all.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Vensai
He had the advantage befor Adi got killed. He created an opening after kicking Maul before he went after Savage.

Kicking someone back is usually to distance yourself from an opponent. If it was a more lethal kick that put Maul on his ass or with his weapon falling out of his hand, then I would agree.

But fact is it was already quite a drawn out fight with neither looking superior, so if that was the extent of Kenobi's edge it wasn't much at all.

Vensai
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Kicking someone back is usually to distance yourself from an opponent. If it was a more lethal kick that put Maul on his ass or with his weapon falling out of his hand, then I would agree.

But fact is it was already quite a drawn out fight with neither looking superior, so if that was the extent of Kenobi's edge it wasn't much at all.
Yeah, I agree that fight was too short to judge.

ROTJ Vader
Kenobi and Maul seem to be equals.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Kenobi and Maul seem to be equals.

thumb up

Yeah pretty much. I might give Kenobi an edge in Sabers, but Maul > in Force TK. But fights between them can go either way. Maybe a majority to Maul with the better TK.

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
thumb up

Yeah pretty much. I might give Kenobi an edge in Sabers, but Maul > in Force TK. But fights between them can go either way. Maybe a majority to Maul with the better TK.

Id give Maul the slightest of edges overall.

mnat801
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That was a one off. Same episode Kenobi fought Maul one on one and wasn't defeating him. But he still ALMOST defeated them BOTH. If Kenobi can come close to defeating the brothers, there's no reason not to believe Mace can defeat them. Plus Mace was trouble for Sidious, where the brothers weren't.

Also saying "that's a one off" is total b*llsh*t. Its like saying Anakin beating Dooku was a one off.

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by mnat801
But he still ALMOST defeated them BOTH. If Kenobi can come close to defeating the brothers, there's no reason not to believe Mace can defeat them. Plus Mace was trouble for Sidious, where the brothers weren't.

Also saying "that's a one off" is total b*llsh*t. Its like saying Anakin beating Dooku was a one off.

No its not "bullshit" seeing as how Kenobi and Maul have been potrayed to be equals.

Or how EVEN with the help of Ventress, Kenobi was unable to defeat Maul.

Also just because Windu did better Vs Sidious--dosint mean he wins. Buddy. smokin'

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Also just because Windu did better Vs Sidious--dosint mean he wins. Buddy. smokin'

This is true, especially considering mace windu was amped more than he ever was fighting Sidious, which most likely will not apply to the same effect vs the maul bros.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by mnat801
But he still ALMOST defeated them BOTH. If Kenobi can come close to defeating the brothers, there's no reason not to believe Mace can defeat them.

No because Kenobi was in a peak state at that point. We're flat out told he was completely ready and focused for the first one on one fight which was pretty equal. But then after Adi died he was EVEN MORE Focused, and that Maul and Opress were not going to defeat him IN THAT FIGHT, IN THAT SITUATION. So it was clearly a context specific one-off while Kenobi was in a peak state.

Just like Ventress knocking out Kenobi in seconds while fighting off Skywalker, and then force choked them both was a one off context specific win while she was in a peak state.

Originally posted by mnat801
Plus Mace was trouble for Sidious, where the brothers weren't.

Just because Sidious force smacked the Brothers all over the place, doesn't mean Mace can. In force powers Sidious > Mace > Maul. In Sabers Sidious also has various advantages over Mace given how he Blitz Tiin, Kolar and Fisto without Mace being able to do a damn thing about it. And guess what? Pretty much no one here thinks Mace would blitz those 3 in a fight.


Originally posted by mnat801
Also saying "that's a one off" is total b*llsh*t. Its like saying Anakin beating Dooku was a one off.

No, because Skywalker has consistently stalemated Dooku in TCW, even seeming to have the edge at times.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Maul has ZERO edge overall. Get this through your guy's heads... Kenobi holds the ONLY decisive resounding... cutting somebody in half victory between the two. It's kenobi who holds the edge.

Please show me Filoni sayins kenobi beating them was a one off and wouldn't happen again. If not, stop giving me your conjecture on the matter as proof. We saw kenobi do it, and I see so reason why he couldn't do it again sometimes.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Maul has ZERO edge overall.

Yeah that's why he's beaten Kenobi twice and Force TK'd him around twice, and has greater Force feats over him too thumb up


Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Get this through your guy's heads... Kenobi holds the ONLY decisive resounding... cutting somebody in half victory between the two. It's kenobi who holds the edge.

Get this through your head- Kenobi only beat Maul WITH THE AID OF QUI-GON JINN. He had zero chance on his own in that victory you call decisive.


Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please show me Filoni sayins kenobi beating them was a one off and wouldn't happen again. If not, stop giving me your conjecture on the matter as proof. We saw kenobi do it, and I see so reason why he couldn't do it again sometimes.

He said the brothers could not beat Kenobi IN THAT FIGHT IN THAT SITUATION. Ergo it was a one off. You only have to see their other fights to flat out see it was a one off.

Kenobi's good, but he's no Sidious to think he can defeat Maul and Opress combined on any given day.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Actually he's that good to be able to be them on any given day.. ya know.. because he DID beat them on any given day.. thus could do it again. Nobody is saying he could do it all the time.. but he is certainly capable of duplicating the feat.

It matters less that he used Jinn saber because Maul had the HIGHER GROUND and Kenobi had NO WEAPON. To get tooled like that is just a tooling no matter how you slice it. Maul had the advantage and a great position and still couldn't react fast enough to a speed attack from kenobi. Yes, that is clearly the most decisive victory between the two.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Actually he's that good to be able to be them on any given day.. ya know.. because he DID beat them on any given day.. thus could do it again. Nobody is saying he could do it all the time.. but he is certainly capable of duplicating the feat.


Just as Maul, Opress and even Ventress are capable of repeating their feats of defeating Kenobi. Ventress has done it while battling Skywalker and Kenobi once and actually put Kenobi down in seconds. So what?

I don't see you ever using that as evidence of how superior Ventress is over Kenobi.


Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It matters less that he used Jinn saber because Maul had the HIGHER GROUND and Kenobi had NO WEAPON.

So he cut him without a weapon? No he cut him using Jinn's Saber as you very well know. How does that not matter when that's the only reason Maul went down?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
To get tooled like that is just a tooling no matter how you slice it. Maul had the advantage and a great position

And why did he have the lower ground in the first place? Why did he lose his weapon in the first place. Oh that's right, it was because Maul threw his butt down that hole.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
and still couldn't react fast enough to a speed attack from kenobi.


LOL @ you trying to make it some sort of speed blitz. Kenobi simply took Maul by surprise, because Maul had no idea Kenobi had a weapon and was watching him jump up thinking "what the f*** is he doing?"


Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yes, that is clearly the most decisive victory between the two.


LOL That PIS surprise victory is like the least reliable way to judge a Maul vs Kenobi fight.

And when are you going get it through your head that Kenobi didn't fight that fight or even win it on his own. Heck he even used Qui-Gon's weapon for the final move because he lost his own being as outclassed as he was.

He simply stood no chance at all of winning that fight without Qui-Gon's presence.

Heck the novel outright confirms that Kenobi was not even Qui-Gon's equal at the time, and that the 2 of them together were outmatched by Maul. At best together they were Maul's equal.

ROTJ Vader
^Maul was clearly above the Duo. He also had a broken ankel as well. I seem to remember Maul chopping down Qui Gon in 29seconds when Qui Gon came at Maul with everything he had. Qui Gon>>>>TPM Kenobi so....

NewGuy01
In TPM the duo really stood little chance against Maul, much less Kenobi alone. It was luck, and overconfidence on Maul's part that led to Kenobi's victory and survival.

In Season 4, Maul is able to outperform Kenobi in their battle, however it should be noted that Kenobi was emotionally unstable at the point, realizing that the Sith that killed his master is still alive and has come back to haunt him.

In Season 5, Kenobi was able to successfully outperform both Maul and Opress. However, it's noted that they may have not been performing at their best due to the enclosed space making it harder to work around each other. However, this is still a solid feat, and a showing of just how cunning Kenobi is, switching up his style of combat to surprise his opponents. And you know, two lightsabers didn't hurt.

I'd say by Season 5 Maul's still a tad above Kenobi, considering his greater mastery of the Force and at least close skills with a lightsaber, honestly. Though, considering Kenobi's improvement since Season 1 (Almost a year and a half before S5), it's possible that he's surpassed Maul by the time of RotS (a bit less than a year after S5?) Though this is only speculation on my part.

Mace with only a single lightsaber shouldn't be able to defeat the Brothers. With two, he's got a good shot.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Qui Gon>>>>TPM Kenobi so....

I wouldn't go that far, but Qui-Gon was > Kenobi at that point.




Originally posted by NewGuy01
In TPM the duo really stood little chance against Maul, much less Kenobi alone. It was luck, and overconfidence on Maul's part that led to Kenobi's victory and survival.

In Season 4, Maul is able to outperform Kenobi in their battle, however it should be noted that Kenobi was emotionally unstable at the point, realizing that the Sith that killed his master is still alive and has come back to haunt him.

In Season 5, Kenobi was able to successfully outperform both Maul and Opress. However, it's noted that they may have not been performing at their best due to the enclosed space making it harder to work around each other. However, this is still a solid feat, and a showing of just how cunning Kenobi is, switching up his style of combat to surprise his opponents. And you know, two lightsabers didn't hurt.

I'd say by Season 5 Maul's still a tad above Kenobi, considering his greater mastery of the Force and at least close skills with a lightsaber, honestly.


thumb up

Newguy01 Your whole post is pretty spot on.

Yes in the Revival 2 on 1 fight, Kenobi did completely switch Lightsaber technique/Style. From single saber defensive, to dual saber offensive. That change did completely take the brothers by surprise(confirmed by the novel). But yes all credit to Kenobi for that. He finally showed not only his tactical cunning, but his true Saber prowess and the variety to his sword skills.

Although it should be noted just as Kenobi was not in the right mind set in S4, Maul did not seem in the right mind set this time. He says when the Jedi arrive "No not yet I'm not ready." And before retreating admits to Opress "this plan has failed." (Kenobi probably got to him with the "Hanging with pirates now, oh how the mighty Sith have fallen" line). He just realized his whole planning needs rethinking. Which Sam Witwer confirms in front of Dave Filoni that this Maul still wasn't quite back to his prime, still making mistakes.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
Though, considering Kenobi's improvement since Season 1 (Almost a year and a half before S5), it's possible that he's surpassed Maul by the time of RotS (a bit less than a year after S5?) Though this is only speculation on my part.

I believe Season 5 is set mere months before ROTS.

Kenobi's feat over Maul and Opress is probably his best Saber feat to date, and Kenobi clearly didn't improve in the Force seeing how easily he was Force stomped by Dooku in ROTS.

So I'm inclined to believe ROTS Kenobi is = TCW S5 Kenobi.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
Mace with only a single lightsaber shouldn't be able to defeat the Brothers. With two, he's got a good shot.

thumb up

Even Ventress has on multiple occasions used Jar Kai to engage both Kenobi and Skywalker simultaneously, even though one on one she's clearly not above either of them.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Just as Maul, Opress and even Ventress are capable of repeating their feats of defeating Kenobi. Ventress has done it while battling Skywalker and Kenobi once and actually put Kenobi down in seconds. So what?

I don't see you ever using that as evidence of how superior Ventress is over Kenobi.




So he cut him without a weapon? No he cut him using Jinn's Saber as you very well know. How does that not matter when that's the only reason Maul went down?



And why did he have the lower ground in the first place? Why did he lose his weapon in the first place. Oh that's right, it was because Maul threw his butt down that hole.




LOL @ you trying to make it some sort of speed blitz. Kenobi simply took Maul by surprise, because Maul had no idea Kenobi had a weapon and was watching him jump up thinking "what the f*** is he doing?"





LOL That PIS surprise victory is like the least reliable way to judge a Maul vs Kenobi fight.

And when are you going get it through your head that Kenobi didn't fight that fight or even win it on his own. Heck he even used Qui-Gon's weapon for the final move because he lost his own being as outclassed as he was.

He simply stood no chance at all of winning that fight without Qui-Gon's presence.

Heck the novel outright confirms that Kenobi was not even Qui-Gon's equal at the time, and that the 2 of them together were outmatched by Maul. At best together they were Maul's equal.

Get this through your head... Kenobi COULD do that again and that is all that matters. Sure, Opress, Maul and Ventress might be able to beat Kenobi again but it's not likely. This master Kenobi not Ataru Kenobi. SOresu master Kenobi has zero losses to any of these clowns.. and that is the best Kenobi. Shit, Padawan Kenobi already beat the best version of maul

So what If Jinn's weapon was sitting there. When you get into a fight... and there is a stick lying around and someone uses it... well that is just how it goes. As Ras said in batman "mind your surroundings". In comic book fights people pick up thigns all the tim lying around.. we don't go.. well the only reason they won is because they picked up that car and throw it at him. Umm yeah, and the other person was unsuccesful in using his surroundings and dodging the attack or trying to use it first.

Getting treated like a weak feeb and totally tooled can never be a sign of superioity. Either you're saying Maul's precog is absolute garbage or he's a weak feeb or both. He had PLENTY of time to SEE kenobi flying up... hear and see him call the saber to his hand and ignite it. So which do you prefer.. he has no precog or it's shit or his reflexes are shit? I think it's both xonsidering how he was tooled but pick one.

You act like Maul tooled kenobi in sabers.. it was in fact kenobi who outdueled maul... He disarms him of one of sabers.. something maul NEVER did with his saber skills. The only reason kenobi was done there was because maul had to TK him down there and it disarms him in the process. He didn't beat him in sabers and couldn't even disarm him with his saber... something kenobi did. Mind you this was Ataru Padawan Kenobi.. not the beast that is Soresu Master kenobi.

Yes getting beat by Padawan Kenobi while in an advantagous position with your opponent is unarmed.. yes that is a clear decisive victory. About as decisive as you can get when you're cut to the size of a midget by an unarmed padawan while you had the higher ground.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Get this through your head... Kenobi COULD do that again and that is all that matters. Sure, Opress, Maul and Ventress might be able to beat Kenobi again but it's not likely. This master Kenobi not Ataru Kenobi. SOresu master Kenobi has zero losses to any of these clowns.. and that is the best Kenobi. Shit, Padawan Kenobi already beat the best version of maul

LOL So you want me to get your Kenobi wankage through my head? No thanks.

LOL How is it more likely that Kenobi would defeat Maul and Opress combined again than it is that Maul, Opress or Ventress could defeat Kenobi again?

LOL @ Master Kenobi having Zero losses to any of those clowns. Here are the fights:

Nightsisters - He clearly lost to Ventress in a few damn seconds!

Revenge - Opress disarms him in a few seconds.

Revenge- Kenobi is losing to Maul one on one.

Sith Hunters- Maul Force tools Kenobi.

Even Revival- The first one on one, neither Maul or Kenobi beat each other. Even the 2 on 1 you continually wank over, Kenobi NEVER actually put Maul down in combat. And heck it was actually Maul who put Kenobi on his Ass TWICE!

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So what If Jinn's weapon was sitting there. When you get into a fight... and there is a stick lying around and someone uses it... well that is just how it goes. As Ras said in batman "mind your surroundings". In comic book fights people pick up thigns all the tim lying around.. we don't go.. well the only reason they won is because they picked up that car and throw it at him. Umm yeah, and the other person was unsuccesful in using his surroundings and dodging the attack or trying to use it first.

Getting treated like a weak feeb and totally tooled can never be a sign of superioity. Either you're saying Maul's precog is absolute garbage or he's a weak feeb or both. He had PLENTY of time to SEE kenobi flying up... hear and see him call the saber to his hand and ignite it. So which do you prefer.. he has no precog or it's shit or his reflexes are shit? I think it's both xonsidering how he was tooled but pick one.

You act like Maul tooled kenobi in sabers.. it was in fact kenobi who outdueled maul... He disarms him of one of sabers.. something maul NEVER did with his saber skills. The only reason kenobi was done there was because maul had to TK him down there and it disarms him in the process. He didn't beat him in sabers and couldn't even disarm him with his saber... something kenobi did. Mind you this was Ataru Padawan Kenobi.. not the beast that is Soresu Master kenobi.

Yes getting beat by Padawan Kenobi while in an advantagous position with your opponent is unarmed.. yes that is a clear decisive victory. About as decisive as you can get when you're cut to the size of a midget by an unarmed padawan while you had the higher ground.

Your being completely ridicluous. The point of Qui-Gon's lightsaber is all too relevant when he couldn't even have got that far in the first place without Qui-Gon, and even NEEDED his lightsbaer for the finishing move because he lost his own. How did he lose his own? Oh that's right IN COMBAT WITH MAUL. That's CLEAR PROOF that Kenobi had ZERO chance of winning anything without the aid of Qui-Gon. You talk about watching your surroundings- It's not like it's f****ing normal for a frigging Lightsaber to be hanging around! GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD THAT THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY PADAWAN KENOBI COULD HAVE WON IF QUI-GON WAS NOT THERE TO AID HIM.

Maul had no idea Kenobi had a Lightsaber as it came into his hand when he was right on top of Maul. LOL @ you trying to make it some kind of speed blitz! Hmm I wonder why Kenobi didn't just speed blitz Maul at the beginning of the fight. Actaully I wonder why Kenobi didn't just speed blitz Maul 13 YEARS LATER, when he's now a frigging Jedi Master, if he could Speed Blitz him as a Padawan!

I never said anything about PURE SABERS! Close combat is close comabt, and it includes Saber slahses, kicks and Force pushes. He got plenty of Kicks on Kenobi which put him on his ass. His final move was a force push instead? So what? Your really stretching now KT.

LOL So Kenobi cut him without a waepon! LOL. KT your talking total crap now, and I refuse to carry on this crap until you at least agreee to be a little damn reasonable. Anyone who thinks TPM Kenobi is > TPM Maul is frankly very stupid. In fact it's OUTRIGHT CONFIRMED he wasn't even a match for TPM Qui-Gon. It's also OUTRIGHT CONFIRMED that Qui-Gon and Kenobi together were barely a match for Maul. But don't let things like Canon Facts get in your way KT!

Intrepid37
lol @ TPM Kenobi>TPM Maul

KuRuPT Thanosi
Funny enough... Maul never disarms kenobi with his saber in a strict saber duel.. Mind you this was Padawan Kenobi using (not even mastering) ataru. Yet, Kenobi is able to partially disarm Maul with his saber. Yes, if a Padawan can move too fast for you to react while on lower ground with no weapon.. either your reflexes are absolute shit or you have shit for precog or both.. Which is it?

Intrepid37
Or PIS was involved...

KuRuPT Thanosi
So which is it? Bad reflexes or horrible pre cog or both?

Ahhhh the faulty PIS argument when people don't have a leg to stand on.. Love those. Just like it was PIS Sids and Yoda were fighting on the pods edge or else Yoda was just about to overwhelm Palps and the script notes.. "The emperor seems doomed".. Just like it was PIS that Kenobi barely didn't make it past the forcefield to help his master before he died... Just like it was PIS anakin stopped Mace from killing Palps... Just like it was PIS when Anakin killed Dooku that he had expended force reserves fighting off Kenobi and Anakin first... You can literally find PIS stupidity in any fight in any genre... What we do know and what we do have.. is Padawan kenobi without a weapon.. in a horrible position.. pull off a move so quikcly that Maul couldn't even react to in time and cut him in half. OWNAGE

DARTH POWER
Yes obviously Maul's reflexes are no match for TPM Kenobi's speed. That's why he blitzed Maul at the beginning of their fight in TPM, and again in TCW episode Revenge, and again in the episode Revival. Oh no wait..

KuRuPT Thanosi
So which is it... No Precog or slow reflexes?

DARTH POWER
Surprise attacked while being an arrogant cocky ass distracted by his own awesomeness instead of just killing his opponent there and then. Exactly the same way Vader killed the Emperor. Unless your going to claim the Emperor also lacks Precog now?

Col. Valerian
Mace's Vaapad and Shatterpoint do grant him a nice advantage, though. I think it could go either way.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Mace's Vaapad and Shatterpoint do grant him a nice advantage, though. I think it could go either way.


It's definitely possible for Mace to win with his power and talents. I just see it as more likely the Brothers taking it. They have both been shown to be quite beastly even individually.

I wonder if together the Brothers would overpower Mace in the Force.

Intrepid37
Of course they could.

KuRuPT Thanosi
There is nothing MORE likely about the brothers taking it at all. These are the facts... Kenobi beat the brothers... This wasn't even end of ROTS master kenobi either, and he still beat them. The emperor beat them with utter ease.. even laughing while doing so. This is the same emperor that got beat by mace and can't amp off the brother like Mace can... yet you go... I think it's more likely the brother win? WTF.. Get your head out of their asses DP. They can maybe get 1 or 2 victories against Mace.. but that is about it. lesser people than Mace have beaten them.

the difference between the analogy you tried to use was that the emperor was fighting somebody else and trying to kill them. So it stands to reason he might not sense Vader was ging to kill him. He was distracted and had his focus elsewhere. Maul WASN'T distracted and was looking RIGHT AT KENOBI. So agian.. WHICH IS IT... Shitty reflexes or terrible precog or both?

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Of course they could.

Sure it's possible they win, but it's probable Mace wins.. Lesser people than mace have beaten them.

Intrepid37
no

Nephthys
I think Windu has a good chance of beating them, but they are more powerful than him combined. They're not going to be able to use their powers in conjunction like that though.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Of course he does... He beat somebody that literally tyoed with them and laughed at their powers and abilities WHILE NOT BEING ABLE TO AMP OFF THEM like Mace will. Bros are lucky to win 2 fights imo. Mace is their superior in every way.. and their rage and anger will only fuel mace even more.

pencilcrayon
But this is a regular Mace Windu without his abilities being boosted beyond anything he's ever capable of.

Intrepid37
Lucky to win 2 fights lol.

pencilcrayon
Vaapad is not an automatic win vs dark siders. If it was, he'd have no problems with Kar Vastor.

Intrepid37
Agreed. Mace is good, but his not godly: talking about defeats to Vastor/Dooku and roughly stalemates with Bulq, Grievous and Ventress.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Explain to me how somebody who lost to mace can toy with them and treat them like weak feebs... and yet Mace who can an and will amp off the bro won't beat them for a majority? Do explain

KuRuPT Thanosi
Where did Dooku beat Mace again.. post that fight please.. Surely.. surely.. you aren't referring to sparring sessions.. cause that would just be hilarious

Intrepid37
Why would it be hilarious?

KuRuPT Thanosi
you mean other than it being VASTLY different than a life and death situation? You mean besides it being between two friends which even further lessens its value. I mean if it was at least between two enemies the competitive juices would kick in a little more and there be some hostility. It's like a one v one in basketball against a friend or enemy. Sure the one against your friend could be competitive but not as much as against an enemy. And lastly, you mean besides the fact that there is Zero indication that Mace had mastered Vaapad and shatterpoint to the point he did in ROTS. We know these sparring sessions were PRE clone wars... Mace obviously got better.. and I believe Dooku worse with age. Mace was in his prime... So just another reason those sparring sessions mean jack squat to ROTS Mace. Further, it never even says Mace didn't also beat him, which he likely did as well, only that dooku beat him in sparring... Yes.. SPARRING. That is about the worst kinda proof you could post

Intrepid37
You're well aware that Jedi fight to disarm even in life-and-death situations, yes?

KuRuPT Thanosi
you're well aware that a life and death situation is quite different right? It's much different feeling when you can be killed... even if you're only trying to disarm. Much different and can cause more variables. You also didn't address (whcih I know why) that this was a pre prime ROTS Mace and there is ZERO indication he had mastered Vaapad or Shatterpoint at that point. To say nothing o fthe fact that he wouldn't even be able to use vaapad agianst a Jedi.. which is vastly different than if he fought Dooku as a DS. Plus you forgot to mention that Mace is also likely to have beaten Dooku as well in sparring session but who really gives a shit.. it's SPARRING.

Intrepid37
No... Jedi fight with the intention to disarm, ie not hurt their opponent. Whether they're sparring or fighting is irrelevant since they're not restricting themselves more when the former occcurs in comparison to when the latter occurs.

Nephthys
Wrong. They fight to disarm by still hitting them with their lightsabers. Many of the 'disarming' techniques the Jedi Path mention do so literally.

Marks of Contact:

Shiim: Light wounds delivered with the edge of the blade.

Shiak: Piercing an opponent with the blade.

Sun djem: Destroy the weapon.

Cho mai: Sever the hand.

Cho sun: Sever the arm.

Cho mak: Sever a limb.

Mou kei: Sever multiple limbs.

Sai cha: Decapitate.

Sai tok: Cut in half.

Those are the ways Jedi are taught to fight. Notice that only one doesn't wound the opponent. The only thing it says is that Jedi should try not to kill. They fight to wound, disable or cripple, killing only when necessary.

pencilcrayon
Mace was a Jedi Master already by 44 BBY. He's likely mastered Vaapad as well. Dooku left the order after TPM. He didn't blitz Tyranus, who is a dark sider at that point.

His amp was from at least 3 sources I think. It was a one time amp that he otherwise will not have against any other character.

His secret love for the republic was being controlled by a Sith. ( His own inner darkness went through the roof upon hearing those words from the Jedi knight )
Palpatine's own speed and power ( drawing power from him is much greater than anything he'd get from the two brothers )
Anakin's fear ( "You think the fear you feel is mine?" )

His amp allowed him to give off "dozens" of after images from the perspective of someone who can see sublight ships in slow motion. Meaning he has generated at least 24 after images from the perspective of Anakin. Anakin is one of the fastest characters of any generation.

This is far beyond anything he's ever done before and yet he could only match his opponent.
His opponent also had to slow down due to the slippery permacrete by shifting some of his force powered speed to force powered grip. Seems like he beat his opponent due to this factor and the above.

He's not going to be fighting at hundreds of times faster than sublight ship speeds when against the brothers. That's how fast one would need to be to generate that many after images respectively to another being.
He also didn't notice the other Jedi die until after he tapped into one time amp.

Nephthys
Originally posted by pencilcrayon
He's not going to be fighting at hundreds of times faster than sublight ship speeds when against the brothers.

Or ever.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Intrepid37
No... Jedi fight with the intention to disarm, ie not hurt their opponent. Whether they're sparring or fighting is irrelevant since they're not restricting themselves more when the former occcurs in comparison to when the latter occurs.


Still avoided the points about age and not being able to use Vaapad. Concession accepted on those points.

Again, you're either too stupid or being obtuse. When you're in a life and death situation.... THAT CAN CAUSE FEELINGS OF NERVOUSNESS... ANXIOUS... TENSE... all which can have an effect on your performance CORRECT? When you're simply sparring you don't have those thoughts and feelings of concern so you can fight loose. However, that isn't close to the same as how a life and death fight would go.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Mace was a Jedi Master already by 44 BBY. He's likely mastered Vaapad as well. Dooku left the order after TPM. He didn't blitz Tyranus, who is a dark sider at that point.

His amp was from at least 3 sources I think. It was a one time amp that he otherwise will not have against any other character.

His secret love for the republic was being controlled by a Sith. ( His own inner darkness went through the roof upon hearing those words from the Jedi knight )
Palpatine's own speed and power ( drawing power from him is much greater than anything he'd get from the two brothers )
Anakin's fear ( "You think the fear you feel is mine?" )

His amp allowed him to give off "dozens" of after images from the perspective of someone who can see sublight ships in slow motion. Meaning he has generated at least 24 after images from the perspective of Anakin. Anakin is one of the fastest characters of any generation.

This is far beyond anything he's ever done before and yet he could only match his opponent.
His opponent also had to slow down due to the slippery permacrete by shifting some of his force powered speed to force powered grip. Seems like he beat his opponent due to this factor and the above.

He's not going to be fighting at hundreds of times faster than sublight ship speeds when against the brothers. That's how fast one would need to be to generate that many after images respectively to another being.
He also didn't notice the other Jedi die until after he tapped into one time amp.

Post the proof to support your claims... Post the proof he had mastered Vaapad and Shatterpoint? Post the proof he was just as good then as he was by the time of ROTS. There is zero evidence to support he was as good. He only got better as the clone wars and time passed not worse. Not only that.. even if he had mastered vaapad (which I've seen no proof of) at the time of the sparring he wouldn't be able to use it since Dooku was a light sider. Thus, it's a moot point. He had mastered it at this point and even if he did.. he wouldn't be able to use it against Dooku in sparring. Yet, he will be abl eto use against the Bros...

Intrepid37
Originally posted by Nephthys
Wrong. They fight to disarm by still hitting them with their lightsabers. Many of the 'disarming' techniques the Jedi Path mention do so literally.

Marks of Contact:

Shiim: Light wounds delivered with the edge of the blade.

Shiak: Piercing an opponent with the blade.

Sun djem: Destroy the weapon.

Cho mai: Sever the hand.

Cho sun: Sever the arm.

Cho mak: Sever a limb.

Mou kei: Sever multiple limbs.

Sai cha: Decapitate.

Sai tok: Cut in half.

Those are the ways Jedi are taught to fight. Notice that only one doesn't wound the opponent. The only thing it says is that Jedi should try not to kill. They fight to wound, disable or cripple, killing only when necessary.
Jedi fight with modified sabers when they spar though.

Nephthys
Even a modified saber can break bones if you smack someone with it hard enough, and can seriously burn skin.

Intrepid37
Nah, you can modify its level pretty nicely.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
Even a modified saber can break bones if you smack someone with it hard enough, and can seriously burn skin.

I'm sure they will risk that much while sparring, especially with the futuristic medical facilities available to them. Unless the Jedi are complete wuss bags.

pencilcrayon

KuRuPT Thanosi
What on God Green Earth was all that posted for? Nobody is arguing anything of what you quoted. I asked for very specific things... and you provided exactly none of those things.

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So which is it... No Precog or slow reflexes?

laughing out loud

Going by your logic Savage >> Kenobi since Savage PWNED Kenobi in Revenge. "Kenobis reflexies were to slow, he got pwned". And Savage Vs Kenobi was 10X fairer and more legit then Maul Vs Kenobi laughing out loud

pencilcrayon
Has Mace ever blitz Ventress (a dark sider) ?
Isn't Anakin also faster than Ventress?

Mace can draw on his own inner darkness vs light siders yet he wasn't blitzing Saesee Tiin either.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
laughing out loud

Going by your logic Savage >> Kenobi since Savage PWNED Kenobi in Revenge. "Kenobis reflexies were to slow, he got pwned". And Savage Vs Kenobi was 10X fairer and more legit then Maul Vs Kenobi laughing out loud

Oh yeah good point!

I personally thought Vader killing Sidious was the better example to show how retarded KT's speed blitz theory is. Granted Sidious was distracted shooting Luke. But Maul was also distracted just being cocky. And it's not like Vader was in peak form either, he had a missing arm and was also weaponless.

But point is they were both surprise attacks on an opponent not expecting any kind of attack.

Oh and your right Opress beating Kenobi in "Revenge" was 10 times more legit. Kenobi has his weapon out ready for a fight. He's shocked to see Opress first, but does acknowledge he's there before Opress begins attacking, and he even blocks the initial attacks.

Hmm maybe that's just what happens when Opress and Kenobi fight in an Open Environment 123

KuRuPT Thanosi
It was NOT a surprise attack.... MAUL WAS LOOKING RIGHT AT KENOBI... HE WAS THE ONLY ENEMY THERE. Even if he didn't expect the attack... it doesn't matter.. he was looking at him.. could see him make a jump... call on the saber.. ignite the saber... All this means he could've reacted to prevent being turned into a midget... This was not a surprise attack... Either Maul's reflexes are shit... He has no precog at all.. or kenobi is that fast. WHIcH IS IT?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It was NOT a surprise attack.... MAUL WAS LOOKING RIGHT AT KENOBI... HE WAS THE ONLY ENEMY THERE.


Yeah but he didn't know he had a damn weapon.

Use some common sense KT. If Kenobi was really that much faster like you make out, how was there even a fight? Why wasn't Kenobi just blitzing him earlier?

Why can't Kenobi as even as a Jedi MASTER 13 years later Speed Blitz Maul?

I mean come on. Let's try and be at least a little bit reasonable in debates.

mnat801
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
No its not "bullshit" seeing as how Kenobi and Maul have been potrayed to be equals. Well if you didn't notice, in Revival it portrayed Obi Wan showing his skill off, backed by Filoni who said Obi Wan is a very skilled swordsman. Before seeing this feat, its reasonable to say Kenobi = Maul, but whether you like it or not, you can't just ignore this fight. Saying its bullshit doesn't excuse Kenobi's impressive feat.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Or how EVEN with the help of Ventress, Kenobi was unable to defeat Maul. You do realise Ventress was fighting Opress don't you? And ironically this is the same fight that Kenobi could have killed Maul if it weren't for Ventress losing her saber.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Also just because Windu did better Vs Sidious--dosint mean he wins. Buddy. smokin' No it doesn't, but it definitely helps the argument. What's you're evidence stating otherwise?

mnat801
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No because Kenobi was in a peak state at that point. We're flat out told he was completely ready and focused for the first one on one fight which was pretty equal. But then after Adi died he was EVEN MORE Focused, and that Maul and Opress were not going to defeat him IN THAT FIGHT, IN THAT SITUATION. So it was clearly a context specific one-off while Kenobi was in a peak state. No it s because Kenobi's a highly skilled swordsman per Filoni.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Just like Ventress knocking out Kenobi in seconds while fighting off Skywalker, and then force choked them both was a one off context specific win while she was in a peak state. First of all I don't recall Ventress winning? ...
Secondly how is it context specific? It seems like you excuse every detail of a fight with being context specific. Ventress legitimately knocked out Kenobi with the force. Not because of context or PIS but because she was skilled enough to do so.

mnat801
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Just because Sidious force smacked the Brothers all over the place, doesn't mean Mace can. In force powers Sidious > Mace > Maul. In Sabers Sidious also has various advantages over Mace given how he Blitz Tiin, Kolar and Fisto without Mace being able to do a damn thing about it. And guess what? Pretty much no one here thinks Mace would blitz those 3 in a fight. At the same time, it doesn't mean Mace can't. But based on Mace being trouble for Sidious, imo he can do the same - or at least near the same - to the brothers.




Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No, because Skywalker has consistently stalemated Dooku in TCW, even seeming to have the edge at times. Kenobi hasn't had the fortunate chance of fighting Maul throughout the 3 years of the clone wars unlike Anakin has had with Dooku. Its like you're taking silence as acceptance that Kenobi couldn't have if he had the opportunity.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by mnat801
No it s because Kenobi's a highly skilled swordsman per Filoni.


And Maul isn't?

Kenobi being a highly skilled swordsman was one reason. The second reason was that he was in the right mind set this time.. I.e. In the Zone.

And yet in this right mindset he still wasn't defeating Maul in their one on one in the same episode.

The third reason he gave was that Kenobi was "even more focused" after Adi's death. I.e. More focused than he usually is, i.e. A peak performance.



Originally posted by mnat801
First of all I don't recall Ventress winning? ...


You've been shown this many times but you always conviniently forget about it. I might just start to forget Kenobi beat Opress stick out tongue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-nDmMMtb6Q


At 0:30 she kicks him. He's floored disarmed of his weapon, and lies there helpless for a good few seconds. This while she's fighting off Skywalker no less. She actually force chokes them both in this same fight later on.

Originally posted by mnat801
Secondly how is it context specific? It seems like you excuse every detail of a fight with being context specific.

See above. According to Filoni's explanations everyone has off days and peak days. Which is pretty realistic Imho. It's therefore consistent showings that matter more than any one-off's.


Originally posted by mnat801
Ventress legitimately knocked out Kenobi with the force. Not because of context or PIS but because she was skilled enough to do so.

It wasn't with the Force. It was with a kick, mid-saber fight, while fighting off Anakin. So is Ventress > Kenobi and Skywalker?


Originally posted by mnat801
At the same time, it doesn't mean Mace can't. But based on Mace being trouble for Sidious, imo he can do the same - or at least near the same - to the brothers.

Well it may be a valid opinion. But I'm going by the trouble Ventress and Opress gave Dooku. Seeing that I just have a hard time seeing Mace defeat both Brotheres together for a majority.

But he of course has a shot at doing it.




Originally posted by mnat801
Kenobi hasn't had the fortunate chance of fighting Maul throughout the 3 years of the clone wars unlike Anakin has had with Dooku. Its like you're taking silence as acceptance that Kenobi couldn't have if he had the opportunity.

What are you talking about? He's fought Maul and Opress 3 times each in TCW. So clearly him fighting them both off together was a one-off, as it only happened once in like 6 different fights.

juyomaster34
Mace wins all three,with no difficulty...

juyomaster34
To say the bros. beating Mace is real silly.And what's even more crazy is
that they win all three.Obi Wan defeated both bros. why would this be hard for Mace?

It wouldn't be.Mace mastered Juyo as well as Vaapad,he created it.
This TK is getting old.I'll raise your Force TK BY Mace's Force Crush,follwed by TK lifting an all terrain vehicle and two or three clones over a chasm.

it would be a great test for Vaapad.
one or two saber take your pick he wins all three anyway.

Master Han
Dooku was able to separate Anakin and Obi Wan, and eliminate the latter with the Force. He then ends up losing because of Anakin's mood swings. Mace Windu by this point is more powerful than Dooku, especially factoring in vaapad.

Why would this fight be any tougher for Windu? I think we would agree that Anakin/Obi Wan > Maul bros by RotS, right?

Also note that makashi isn't well suited for fighting multiple opponents, whereas vaapad/juyo is particularly capable in that regard.

juyomaster34
Agreed,what do you think of Pre Vizla vs Boba Fett(adult)? I was thinking
Jango but either one would do.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Master Han
Dooku was able to separate Anakin and Obi Wan, and eliminate the latter with the Force. He then ends up losing because of Anakin's mood swings. Mace Windu by this point is more powerful than Dooku, especially factoring in vaapad.

Why would this fight be any tougher for Windu? I think we would agree that Anakin/Obi Wan > Maul bros by RotS, right?

Also note that makashi isn't well suited for fighting multiple opponents, whereas vaapad/juyo is particularly capable in that regard.

Mace Windu is not more powerful than Dooku by this point. Dark Rendezvous takes place in 19 BBY, and it states that on neutral ground Mace is at best the Count's equal.

Master Han
I don't think Boba's ever done anything to match putting up a good fight against Obi Wan, but my knowledge of Pre Vizla extends only to wookieepedia.

ROTJ Vader
Bros win.

juyomaster34
equal? I don't think so...Power not even close, skill,not even a threat...
to his complete mastery of Vaapad...his attachment to Dooku is the only
one thing that saved Dooku from getting a true tutorial of Vaapad.

juyomaster34
And don't say Sora Bulq because imo Bulq wanted to join Dooku,.
imo Bulq was all lightsaber with very little use of the Force.

What better way to learn under the foot of a Sith apprentice/Dark Jedi
master than to either feign defeat or simply loose on purpose to further
your dark side training?

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by Master Han
I don't think Boba's ever done anything to match putting up a good fight against Obi Wan, but my knowledge of Pre Vizla extends only to wookieepedia.

Pre Viszla>>>Boba.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by juyomaster34
equal? I don't think so...Power not even close, skill,not even a threat...
to his complete mastery of Vaapad...his attachment to Dooku is the only
one thing that saved Dooku from getting a true tutorial of Vaapad.

That's all fine and good except for the numerous quotes through canon citing that Dooku >/= Mace

ROTJ Vader
Bro's take a majority.

juyomaster34
when he's not using Vaapad. and that was a sparring session.

juyomaster34
ROTJ Vader,I find your lack of faith...disturbing...lol!
Mizukage Yoda,good canon call but it was only in sparring...

I think Boba might have a chance...he is his father's son...
Jango would have taken Pre easily with only a few minor difficulties.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by juyomaster34
when he's not using Vaapad. and that was a sparring session.

Dark Rendezvous doesn't say sparring it states on neutral ground perhaps Mace Windu could challange Dooku. And why would Mace not use the saber technique he invented in sparring? Hell even Quinlan Pathetic Vos used Vaapad in sparring.

juyomaster34
He did it with out knowing he was using Vaapad...and sparring is sparring
maybe he did maybe he didn't who knows.

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by juyomaster34
1.ROTJ Vader,I find your lack of faith...disturbing...lol!
2.Jango would have taken Pre easily with only a few minor difficulties.

1.On what?. That the Brothers would defeat Windu?. Obviously they would.
2.Um....no.

juyomaster34
I think it was Pathetic of Yoda to not adapt and embrace change.
The Sith changed.The only thing Changed with the Jedi is Mace creating Vaapad from Juyo.

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by juyomaster34
I think it was Pathetic of Yoda to not adapt and embrace change.
The Sith changed.The only thing Changed with the Jedi is Mace creating Vaapad from Juyo.

What does this have to do with the topic?.

juyomaster34
The brothers couldn't defeat Obi Wan Kenobi,Mace would have taken Savage out just like Sidious did,only difference a decapitation...,
on Savage and bisection on Maul. again...

Savage is as much as Maul's shatterpoint just as much as Savage is his..
They are each others weak points...take either out and it's only a matter
of time for who ever is left...to die and become one with the Force.

ROTJ Vader
Are you serious?. By your logic Anakin/Kenobi couldn't defeat Savage. Also I seem to remember Maul defeating Kenobi 1v1.



Right....just like Dooku did?.



Except Windu won't be taking both of them out for a majority. He would win a minority of fights, but not a majority. Dooku, Windus equal had tons of trouble with Ventress/Opress. Bros are far better/more cordinated then that team. No way Windu is taking a majority.

Master Han
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
1.On what?. That the Brothers would defeat Windu?. Obviously they would.


RotS Obi Wan and Anakin together couldn't defeat Dooku until the latter went balls out.

juyomaster34
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
What does this have to do with the topic?.

Simple,really Yoda admitted to his failure.His Jedi were n't properly
trained to fight these new Sith.Mace just so happened to not only create
Vaapad for his wekness but to fight Sith/ dark siders.

Long story short Mace was the better choice to defeat Palpatine
while Obi Wan was the better choice to fight Poor misguided Annie.
just like again Obi Wan being the better choice to fight the bros.

which he defeated.and if Mace was in the picture he would do the same
there woould't be no Sidious vs the bros. because Mace would have killed them.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Master Han
Dooku was able to separate Anakin and Obi Wan, and eliminate the latter with the Force. He then ends up losing because of Anakin's mood swings. Mace Windu by this point is more powerful than Dooku, especially factoring in vaapad.

Why would this fight be any tougher for Windu? I think we would agree that Anakin/Obi Wan > Maul bros by RotS, right?



Originally posted by Master Han
RotS Obi Wan and Anakin together couldn't defeat Dooku until the latter went balls out.

Correction:
Peak Skywalker and Peak Kenobi are > Maul and Opress,

(but then Peak Skywalker was > Dooku on his own, so I'm not sure what that proves..)


However Opress and Maul have undoubtedly and consistently displayed greater Force TK than Kenobi/Skywalker, so neither of them will be so easily Force tossed aside like Kenobi was. They are also both physically stronger than Kenobi/Skywalker, so neither of them will be slam kicked half way across the room like Skywalker was.

Bottom line, unless your name is Sidious or Yoda, the two Zabrack Brothers will not be so easily separated. In fact Maul even on his own is powerful and skilled enough to put up a fight.

Col. Valerian
I doubt the Brothers could win against Anakin and Kenobi.

Intrepid37
Kenobi?

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ol

Col. Valerian
What about Kenobi is so funny, mate?

Intrepid37
That you doubt the brothers could win against Kenobi... is very funny.

Col. Valerian
I said Anakin and Kenobi. Together. Not just Kenobi. And his skills are hardly laughable, as you seem to think.

Intrepid37
Oh.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
I doubt the Brothers could win against Anakin and Kenobi.


Oh I agree. In an all out scenario:

Skywalker > Maul and

Kenobi >/= Opress.

All I'm saying is Dooku would have an impossible task separating the Brothers the way he did Kenobi/Skywalker given their superior Force TK and Physical Strength.

And let's not forget Dooku wasn't exactly having a field day against Opress and Ventress.

Intrepid37
Nah, Anakin is a more powerful telekinetic and physically stronger than the brothers.

Col. Valerian
If it's Dooku against both of them, then yes, I don't think he could handle it.

The brothers would most likely overwhelm him in a neutral setting.

Unless... Well, we do have to consider that Opress cannot block lightning. Dooku would most likely take advantage of this.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nah, Anakin is a more powerful telekinetic and physically stronger than the brothers.


You think Anakin's physically stronger than Opress? I really don't see Dooku slam kicking Opress half way across that large room like Dooku did to Skywalker.

Also I doubt Skywalker is a superior telekinetic to Maul on an average/consistent basis.

Of course if he's "In the Zone" it's a whole different story on both fronts.


Originally posted by Col. Valerian


Unless... Well, we do have to consider that Opress cannot block lightning. Dooku would most likely take advantage of this.

True, but he did take full advantage of that weakness against Ventress and Opress (an inferior duo) and was still struggling.

It also lead to Opress getting into a rage enhanced state, so probably actually doubled his threat level.

Col. Valerian
That's true. All-out, I don't think Dooku would win against the pair. He'll definitely last a while, and give them a good fight, but perish in the end.

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