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They start one hundred meters apart with basic knowledge of one another.

I kick the shit out of both of them. estahuh

Trolololololololololololololololol.

Russell is too fast.

Good. Then it won't take him long to get here, and when he does, he can eate mah bawlz. estahuh

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Good. Then it won't take him long to get here, and when he does, he can eate mah bawlz. estahuh

Kick ass, kick ass, KICKASS!!!

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Russell is too fast.
Eh, possibly. Russell's not all that fast, and there's distance between them.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Eh, possibly. Russell's not all that fast, and there's distance between them.

Wizards and Witches with human reaction time and reflexes have dodged, blocked, and countered spells up close with no problem. Russell should be easily fast enough to dodge anything Voldy throws at him, and speedblitz him.

Yeah no matter what Voldy's got, he's not gonna be quick enough to react to Russell's speed.

*Bump*

Apparition neutralizes Russell's superspeed advantage. Voldy has too many advantages in this fight while all Russell has is his strength and speed. TK, AK, Imperio, Crucio etc. seal Edgington's fate.

This borders on spite against crazy King of Mississippi.

It really doest. Sonic speed and reactions > Peak reactions and teleporting.

Wouldn't hold too much on those advantages. TK is rarely if ever used, AK wouldn't work on the dead. Imp and Cru maybe, but it comes down to that huge speed edge. Russ could run up and attempt to glamour him if brutal murder isn't his first option.

^Sonic speed-level Eric Northman has been tagged by a human-speed level werewolf before. Hell, sonic speed-level Eric Northman has been tagged with a silver keychain(or was it bracelet) by a human in one of his very first appearances on the show as well before. And we're talking about the guy that has actually shown sonic speed and perception time as opposed to the guy on whom you're superficially imposing that level of reaction time simply by the grace of TB vamps' age-based powerscaling. The same show which showed us how useless vamp speed is against people that can casually teleport(Niall vs Nora).

The point is that Voldy has shown the tk ability before, and can do so again, while Russell has no defenses against it. How do you know it wouldn't work? Vampires aren't dead, they're undead, and can still suffer the true death. Even if it doesn't work, we've seen what it did to the quasi-immortal Voldemort when it backfired the first time. Vampires can also feel pain, so Crucio is effective. Vampires have shown a particular susceptibility to magic-based mind control as well(Necromancy) so Imperio will also be equally effective.

Glamour him?
http://24.media.tumblr.com/8b4453f78164cce23d3a5526b93e57ed/tumblr_mfiggiQvfF1riq99so1_r2_250.gif

Voldemort is one of the most powerful legilimenses aka telepaths in the HP universe, and a wizard on top of that to boot. We've seen how useless glamouring is against both telepaths and high-level witches in the show, so Russell trying to glamour him will be about as *edit:effective* someone trying to crush solid titanium with cotton candy.

Voldemort on the other hand can mind-control him via Imperio, or take possession of his body.

This really is Voldy's fight to lose.

Think it was actually a necklace? Anyhow yeah, he's been tagged by slower and reacted to faster. Also routinely blitzing humans. And first thats the top Fae who has shown reactions to follow Nora, and second that Nora's speed is nothing to Russell's. When did Tom become supersonic?


Because Tom still had his soul, unsure about Crucio but I wouldn't link normal mind control to necromancy.


Have we seen Glamouring on Witches? And its not because the Fae are telepaths that it doesn't work on them, its because they're Fae, You need resistance or a very strong will to resist Glamour.

The point still stands though: if they can get tagged and caught offguard by slower human beings, then it should be fairly easy for Voldy to do so as well. It's also never been confirmed that speed also increases with age, only strength and control over the bloodlust. Young vampires have routinely managed to blitz/outpace older ones, so it's not written in black and white. Tom doesn't need to be supersonic, considering he isn't facing a supersonic level threat anyways.

How is Niall being the top pure Fae of the show relevant here? The comparison is simple enough: Niall can teleport which neutralizes vamp superspeed blitzing in a battle. Voldemort can teleport, which gives him the same advantage against a superfast opponent like Russell.

How do you know vampires don't have souls either? Lilith's dialogue with Bill, coupled with the fact that they can meet the true death, tells me they aren't immune either. Even if it doesn't, Voldemort can still create snake-shaped firestorms that can fry Russell in combat. Crucio will most likely work as well, since vampires have a sense of touch and can experience physical pain. Imperio will also work, considering that it's worked on non-humans and non-wizards before and because vampires have no defenses against magical mind control.

Bill admitted that he couldn't do so to Antonia. No, it's never been stated that they're immune simply because they're fae. Their telepathic nature clearly has something to do with it, as Sookie has been able to undo Eric's glamouring of Alcide with her tp. Voldemort also has a very strong will, as shown by how he was able to brave the torment of being trapped in the form of a dismembered ghost and eventually returned to a fully functional body via his efforts.

Sacred 117, Yamcha, And I solo

Originally posted by I am Vegeta
Sacred 117, Yamcha, And I solo

Originally posted by I am Vegeta
Sacred 117, Yamcha, And I solo
Then Quanchi comes in and solos you lot, only to discover it was a trap set up by me to destroy his soul once and for all.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Then Quanchi comes in and solos you lot, only to discover it was a trap set up by me to destroy his soul once and for all.



Lol.

Voldemort solos with Imperio before Russel can clear the one hundred meters.

If he really needs to, he just apparates hundreds of meters into the sky, keeps himself there with his self-sustained flight, and then Imperios.

Can Voldemort react in time to teleport?

If they were right next to each other no.

At a hundred meters?

Yeah.

Most people put Russell at the mach 1-3 range. Wouldn't that be enough to cross 100m before someone like Voldemort can react?

Would Voldemort apparate though? Unless he was covering ground and engaged in combat while already apparating. He didn't do it. Most of his battles were on the ground with no real movement involved.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
The point still stands though: if they can get tagged and caught offguard by slower human beings, then it should be fairly easy for Voldy to do so as well. It's also never been confirmed that speed also increases with age, only strength and control over the bloodlust. Young vampires have routinely managed to blitz/outpace older ones, so it's not written in black and white. Tom doesn't need to be supersonic, considering he isn't facing a supersonic level threat anyways.

How is Niall being the top pure Fae of the show relevant here? The comparison is simple enough: Niall can teleport which neutralizes vamp superspeed blitzing in a battle. Voldemort can teleport, which gives him the same advantage against a superfast opponent like Russell.

How do you know vampires don't have souls either? Lilith's dialogue with Bill, coupled with the fact that they can meet the true death, tells me they aren't immune either. Even if it doesn't, Voldemort can still create snake-shaped firestorms that can fry Russell in combat. Crucio will most likely work as well, since vampires have a sense of touch and can experience physical pain. Imperio will also work, considering that it's worked on non-humans and non-wizards before and because vampires have no defenses against magical mind control.

Bill admitted that he couldn't do so to Antonia. No, it's never been stated that they're immune simply because they're fae. Their telepathic nature clearly has something to do with it, as Sookie has been able to undo Eric's glamouring of Alcide with her tp. Voldemort also has a very strong will, as shown by how he was able to brave the torment of being trapped in the form of a dismembered ghost and eventually returned to a fully functional body via his efforts. If the point stands that the low ends happened, doesnt that mean the same for the average and high end.. which would make an issue when the vamps show speed between Mach 0.3-1 and Tom is only human. Unless "And we're talking about the guy that has actually shown sonic speed and perception time" was about Tom? Don't really recall a younger blitzing an older, cept maybe a single moment. Reacting to? Two or three times. Whether its a rule or not, its how its shown to be.

Well, for having fast enough reactions to routinely follow Nora who was in fact moving far faster than human speed. Trying to pass of teleporting as the single thing in play here would completely ignore his reactions, or imply that everyday human reactions can match a vampires speed.

I didnt say vampires didnt have souls, I said that Tom's soul situation was the reason the curse did what it did to him, not a general immortality claim. To their version of death, yes. As stated in the book, AK bounced off of a statue magically given life, somewhat showing that magical animation puts a foot in AKs slamming door. Likely not the only limit, and as Vamps don't have mortal life the question remains. If it can land, sure the Fiendfyre will fry him. I've always had the feeling that Crucio would be less effective on those above human durability/survivability. Humans can go from shivering in pain to being able to resist it for hours, so things above human-level should fair somewhat better. Again with that is the thoughts with Imperio, as humans are capable of resisting like when Harry snapped himself out of it near instantly. Magic spun from Tom himself.

Ah right, the Glamouring issue on supernaturals. However in your reference Bill states that he could not do so to Antonia as it can only be done on humans, Antonia prior admitting he could control Marnie despite her witch nature. Reason being that Antonia is a ghost, not a human. So its been clearly stated that their telepathic nature blocks this? Just because they can manually bring back memories that have been written over doesn't mean it becomes the innate reason for their own complete resistance. Don't forget that a Fae blast was able to do the same with Marnie's control over Eric, not her mind power.

I'll agree to the strong will though for reason enough to start resisting.

*Bump. Just saw this.*
Originally posted by BloodRain
If the point stands that the low ends happened, doesnt that mean the same for the average and high end.. which would make an issue when the vamps show speed between Mach 0.3-1 and Tom is only human. Unless "And we're talking about the guy that has actually shown sonic speed and perception time" was about Tom? Don't really recall a younger blitzing an older, cept maybe a single moment. Reacting to? Two or three times. Whether its a rule or not, its how its shown to be.

Well, for having fast enough reactions to routinely follow Nora who was in fact moving far faster than human speed. Trying to pass of teleporting as the single thing in play here would completely ignore his reactions, or imply that everyday human reactions can match a vampires speed.

I didnt say vampires didnt have souls, I said that Tom's soul situation was the reason the curse did what it did to him, not a general immortality claim. To their version of death, yes. As stated in the book, AK bounced off of a statue magically given life, somewhat showing that magical animation puts a foot in AKs slamming door. Likely not the only limit, and as Vamps don't have mortal life the question remains. If it can land, sure the Fiendfyre will fry him. I've always had the feeling that Crucio would be less effective on those above human durability/survivability. Humans can go from shivering in pain to being able to resist it for hours, so things above human-level should fair somewhat better. Again with that is the thoughts with Imperio, as humans are capable of resisting like when Harry snapped himself out of it near instantly. Magic spun from Tom himself.

Ah right, the Glamouring issue on supernaturals. However in your reference Bill states that he could not do so to Antonia as it can only be done on humans, Antonia prior admitting he could control Marnie despite her witch nature. Reason being that Antonia is a ghost, not a human. So its been clearly stated that their telepathic nature blocks this? Just because they can manually bring back memories that have been written over doesn't mean it becomes the innate reason for their own complete resistance. Don't forget that a Fae blast was able to do the same with Marnie's control over Eric, not her mind power.

I'll agree to the strong will though for reason enough to start resisting.
They aren't always depicted utilizing their speed with the utmost effectiveness. They're vampires, they get arrogant when facing physically inferior humans. Eric outpaced Russell. Bill outpaced Eric. Bill was also able to catch Nan off-guard. These are just the examples I remember off my head. If I put some effort into rewatching the episodes of past seasons, I am pretty sure I can come with some more examples. As srankmissingnin put it in the the Television Forums, their speed seems to be on the same level when graphically portrayed on-screen. Visually speaking, there's no difference at all between a speeding Lilith or a speeding Jessica.

And Voldemort didn't show that type of teleporting-speed in his battle with Dumbledore?

Tom's soul situation was a form of quasi-immortality. In fact, it was a better type of immortality than either vampires or maenads have been shown to have on True Blood. The AK doesn't fry your body, it just kills you. There are no signs of death left on the body thereafter. Tom's body on the other hand got pretty much vaporized when his curse backfired. Vamps aren't trully immortal either. And if we're gonna go by the books now, let's not conveniently ignore that the unkillable phoenix Fawkes was fried completely when one of Voldy's errant AKs hit the magical dodo mid-battle with Dumbledore. Both Voldemort and Fawkes have a level of immortality completely beyond the level which vampires possess in the show. And that statue is just a lifeless object simply enchanted by magic, TB vampires are undead creatures that actually possess souls and pass onto some vampire variant of afterlife upon suffering the true death, as we saw with Lilith and her Sirens.

It's not been conclusively proven that TB vamps are above human level-level durability. Apart from Bilith, no other vampire has shown the type of physical durability that you're attributing to them here. Lorena has been KO'd by a flat-screen TV for crying out loud. And no, humans in the Potterverse can't resist the Cruciatus Curse either. The curse merely creates the feeling of pain in your mind, it doesn't actually harm your body in order to work. Vampires feel pain, so it'll most likely work on them.

Imperio can only be resisted by strong-willed individuals(at least of sorts). Per Snape in the books(since we're taking the books into account as well now), Occlumency is somewhat similar to resisting Imperio. There is no guarantee that vamps can resist it as effectively as some wizards in Potterverse can do so.

The witch-burning Roman Catholic vampires of the medieval era didn't try to glamour Antonia either. Bill can't do so to powerful witches and telepaths as demonstrated on the show. What does faerie light being able to negate necromancy have to do with how their telepathy counters vamp glamouring? The answer is: absolutely nothing whatsoever. It's pretty much a non-sequiter.

And Voldemort has a pretty powerful will, as shown in both the movies and the books.

So...who wins?

^I believe I already answered that on the previous page:
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
This borders on spite against crazy King of Mississippi.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
This really is Voldy's fight to lose.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
^I believe I already answered that on the previous page:

The second quote makes it seem like you think Voldemort will lose.

And can Voldy for sure react to Russell's speed?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
*Bump. Just saw this.*

They aren't always depicted utilizing their speed with the utmost effectiveness. They're vampires, they get arrogant when facing physically inferior humans. Eric outpaced Russell. Bill outpaced Eric. Bill was also able to catch Nan off-guard. These are just the examples I remember off my head. If I put some effort into rewatching the episodes of past seasons, I am pretty sure I can come with some more examples. As srankmissingnin put it in the the Television Forums, their speed seems to be on the same level when graphically portrayed on-screen. Visually speaking, there's no difference at all between a speeding Lilith or a speeding Jessica.

And Voldemort didn't show that type of teleporting-speed in his battle with Dumbledore? The fight could very well end here as whatever why we look at it, Tom is just a human with human speed.

Tom's soul situation was a form of quasi-immortality. In fact, it was a better type of immortality than either vampires or maenads have been shown to have on True Blood. The AK doesn't fry your body, it just kills you. There are no signs of death left on the body thereafter. Tom's body on the other hand got pretty much vaporized when his curse backfired. Vamps aren't trully immortal either. And if we're gonna go by the books now, let's not conveniently ignore that the unkillable phoenix Fawkes was fried completely when one of Voldy's errant AKs hit the magical dodo mid-battle with Dumbledore. Both Voldemort and Fawkes have a level of immortality completely beyond the level which vampires possess in the show. And that statue is just a lifeless object simply enchanted by magic, TB vampires are undead creatures that actually possess souls and pass onto some vampire variant of afterlife upon suffering the true death, as we saw with Lilith and her Sirens.

It's not been conclusively proven that TB vamps are above human level-level durability. Apart from Bilith, no other vampire has shown the type of physical durability that you're attributing to them here. Lorena has been KO'd by a flat-screen TV for crying out loud. And no, humans in the Potterverse can't resist the Cruciatus Curse either. The curse merely creates the feeling of pain in your mind, it doesn't actually harm your body in order to work. Vampires feel pain, so it'll most likely work on them.

Imperio can only be resisted by strong-willed individuals(at least of sorts). Per Snape in the books(since we're taking the books into account as well now), Occlumency is somewhat similar to resisting Imperio. There is no guarantee that vamps can resist it as effectively as some wizards in Potterverse can do so.

The witch-burning Roman Catholic vampires of the medieval era didn't try to glamour Antonia either. Bill can't do so to powerful witches and telepaths as demonstrated on the show. What does faerie light being able to negate necromancy have to do with how their telepathy counters vamp glamouring? The answer is: absolutely nothing whatsoever. It's pretty much a non-sequiter.

And Voldemort has a pretty powerful will, as shown in both the movies and the books.

No, not always. Still its their main go-to move in a fight or in most activities. That Eric moment being the one thing I remembered. Nan I'd actually agree that it was off-guard, have always said vamps are easier to catch when they don't think right, though if thats the case its not so much overcoming her speed. Bill&Eric I don't recall, anyhow its still generally shown that older ones are somewhat faster. Take Russell completely blitzing the Magister or getting out of dodge with the Authority. So when it comes to a vamp thats a fraction of his age, he's going to be more impressive.

Who is also doing everything within human speed. TP reacting to Dumbledore throwing spells around is not the same to TP reacting to a vampire with that superspeed.

'Immortality' being just the branch title here, not so simple to compare biological to split-soul immortality, only one that can would be to Fawkes' biological kind. Only difference now being the whole soul/living detail; TBH I don't know about the ghost situation in TB. I mean at first I thought it was a ghost, then thought it was a maker-link when Nora saw him, especially after seeing the Liliths hallucination inducing blood melding with their vision of him. Lilith being another link thing imo. But, just my ideas, really am unsure about this part. Could be they'd be counted as magically animated corpses /shrugs

Yeah, that TV is in a tier of its own. TBH they tend to show it every single time a pair get in a fight. They're beings who can tear humans apart, trading blows is a durability feat. Read up on it, once or twice in the book its mentioned how people took the Cruciatus for hours. Think it was from two who were being tortured for info on Harry. They must have been able to resist/take that level of pain to not give in or pass out.

Harry isn't really the strongest mental resistances, like how its stated Harry is unskilled with Occlumency, but again was still able to reel in from Tom's own control before he even knew you could attempt to mentally resist it.

And? We could count all of the times a vamp hasn't Glamoured someone, it just wouldn't get us far. Its still a magical mental control that the Fae light proves to break. You can't tell me you see no connection between Sook's fae powers breaking two mental spells. Nor have you spoke on how she had to use a manual process in order to shake Alcide, when for this it would need to be an innate auto-shield, or even explained why it must be the telekinesis and not general Fae powers that allow them to resist.

Antonia: And let you bewitch me like you did Marnie?

Bill: I can only glamour humans. You are far beyond that.

Marnie, the human witch. Antonia, the ghost witch. Can be argued that its not the ghost factor but that its due to her being a more powerful with, if Bill didn't say 'human'.






Semi-off topic. Its said on the show that Vamps don't have any living functions, like nerves or brain waves. But we've seen Eric's memories be tampered with and many vampires show physical pain, even when its not a major case. Thoughts?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Semi-off topic. Its said on the show that Vamps don't have any living functions, like nerves or brain waves. But we've seen Eric's memories be tampered with and many vampires show physical pain, even when its not a major case. Thoughts?

Artistic license biology, most likely.

Makes them more relate-able as characters.

Originally posted by BloodRain
No, not always. Still its their main go-to move in a fight or in most activities. That Eric moment being the one thing I remembered. Nan I'd actually agree that it was off-guard, have always said vamps are easier to catch when they don't think right, though if thats the case its not so much overcoming her speed. Bill&Eric I don't recall, anyhow its still generally shown that older ones are somewhat faster. Take Russell completely blitzing the Magister or getting out of dodge with the Authority. So when it comes to a vamp thats a fraction of his age, he's going to be more impressive.

Who is also doing everything within human speed. TP reacting to Dumbledore throwing spells around is not the same to TP reacting to a vampire with that superspeed.

'Immortality' being just the branch title here, not so simple to compare biological to split-soul immortality, only one that can would be to Fawkes' biological kind. Only difference now being the whole soul/living detail; TBH I don't know about the ghost situation in TB. I mean at first I thought it was a ghost, then thought it was a maker-link when Nora saw him, especially after seeing the Liliths hallucination inducing blood melding with their vision of him. Lilith being another link thing imo. But, just my ideas, really am unsure about this part. Could be they'd be counted as magically animated corpses /shrugs

Yeah, that TV is in a tier of its own. TBH they tend to show it every single time a pair get in a fight. They're beings who can tear humans apart, trading blows is a durability feat. Read up on it, once or twice in the book its mentioned how people took the Cruciatus for hours. Think it was from two who were being tortured for info on Harry. They must have been able to resist/take that level of pain to not give in or pass out.

Harry isn't really the strongest mental resistances, like how its stated Harry is unskilled with Occlumency, but again was still able to reel in from Tom's own control before he even knew you could attempt to mentally resist it.

And? We could count all of the times a vamp hasn't Glamoured someone, it just wouldn't get us far. Its still a magical mental control that the Fae light proves to break. You can't tell me you see no connection between Sook's fae powers breaking two mental spells. Nor have you spoke on how she had to use a manual process in order to shake Alcide, when for this it would need to be an innate auto-shield, or even explained why it must be the telekinesis and not general Fae powers that allow them to resist.

Antonia: And let you bewitch me like you did Marnie?

Bill: I can only glamour humans. You are far beyond that.

Marnie, the human witch. Antonia, the ghost witch. Can be argued that its not the ghost factor but that its due to her being a more powerful with, if Bill didn't say 'human'.
Yes, and that Eric moment is also an outlier of sorts. I mean, how many vampires have we seen replicate that sonic speed level feat? Certainly not younger vamps like Bill, Nan or Nora, and not even older vamps like Salome, Russell or Godric. Hell, not even prehistoric vamps like Warlow and Lilith have replicated that feat. Not saying that they couldn't, but using a lone outlier and superimposing it based on your own self-assumed rule that vamps grow faster just as they grow stronger with age is a faulty way to go about this business imo. And catching them off-guard is pretty much outpacing them, because if your claim about their speed is true, then their reflexes too must be sharper with age. That way it would be impossible for a younger and slower vamp to catch them off-guard. Russell's blitz of the magister was no more impressive than Bill rearranging the room at superspeed or Eric rapidly decapitating Nan's soldiers in the blink of an eye. Really, as I said before, the visual representation of their speed is more or less identical when shown on-screen.

You're making it sound as if Niall outright reacted to a speedblitz from Nora when that's hardly the case. He hit an unsuspecting Nora from the veranda of the Stackhouse Manor, and then used his dimension-hopping powers to keep up with her speed as she fled from him. This is in sharp contrast to Warlow quickly avoiding his supernova attack and then bombing him with a fae blast from behind. Niall doesn't have superhuman refelxes when a sufficiently old vampire is actually engaging him in stealth-mode battle, but his tp is enough to counteract their speed attacks as shown against Nora. The sort of advantage which Voldemort would have in a battle starting 100 meters apart.

It doesn't matter what form of title immortality is referred to in this context. Both Fawkes and Voldemort are immortal beings in the HPverse, yet both got vaporized when they were hit with an errant AK. That's how it works in the HPverse: you're a mortal then you simply die, without any trace of physical cause for death. If you're immortal(or at least approaching the state), then you get vaporized the moment it hits you. Lilith's visions were somewhat physical in nature as well, since we saw the fingerprint-bloodstains on the glass walls which contained the bottle of her blood in the Authority Headquarters. It's also not been confirmed that vamps in TB are simply animated corpses like in VD or other vamp fiction. It's indicated though that they're just a supernatural race, like weres and shifters who procreate via humanity by turning humans into their own kind. Lilith and her Sirens were all present in the afterlife dimension which Bill was transported whenever he blacked out, so it's an indication that their souls pass on upon the true death.

Surviving crucio and unwilling to give up is not the same thing as resisting it. People do that sort of thing even in regular torture/interrogation scenes in fiction, and despite the pain, they never give in. Nobody, and by this I mean nobody, has ever no-sold crucio in the HPverse. Voldemort isn't going to try and interrogate Russell here, he'll hit him with the curse in order to cripple him. And as far as taking continued torture from the curse goes, that much of pain can drive people mad, as shown by what happened to Neville's parents at the hands of Bellatrix Lestrange.

Harry was only unskilled in Occlumency because of Snape's poor training. It was indicated that if he'd been taught by Dumbledore himself, he might have done a much better job. In the final book, it was shown that he could push out Voldemort from his mind if he felt enough grief.

Except it's not fae light which did the trick here, it was telepathy. Sookie undid Alcide's glamouring by Eric via her telepathy, not by zapping him with her light. Sookie breaking Marnie's spell with her zap is no different from Warlow exorcising Corbett Stackhouse's ghost from Lafayette with his fae blast. Again, faerie light's ability to undo black magic/necromancy has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with their ability to no-sell glamouring. It however has everything to with their tp.

It absolutely can be argued that it's not the ghost factor in play here, simply their level of witch/spiritual power.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Semi-off topic. Its said on the show that Vamps don't have any living functions, like nerves or brain waves. But we've seen Eric's memories be tampered with and many vampires show physical pain, even when its not a major case. Thoughts?
All that is only relevant from a scientific standpoint. Eric's memories were tampered via magical means, specifically that branch of magic which is meant to manipulate dead corpses, aka necromancy. And vampires have a different biology from humans(case in point: they always blow up like balloons of blood when they die and have an advanced healing factor), which may explain their sense of touch despite the lack of normal human living functions.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Not a possible outlier, a true outlier. It has not been replicated since then. None of Russell's moments are indicative that vamp speed necessarily increases with age just like vamp strength. Bill's blitz was pretty much visually identical, aka a blurry scene involving thousands of actions being performed simultaneously. Russell blitzing the Magister is almost a non-feat. It's no more impressive than the dozens of other speedblitzing feats other vampires have demonstrated. Maryann was able to move faster than Bill's eyes could follow, and we know that Maenads aren't a match for sufficiently old vamps physically.

And that's because I don't believe that there is much of a difference(if any) between old and young vamps speed-wise. As I said before, a speeding Lilith is no different from a speeding Jessica, when shown graphically on-screen. In TVD, we're at least told specifically multiple times that vamps grow in speed with age, on True Blood iirc no such thing is mentioned.

Because we've seen Lilith teleport from the same said afterlife dimension in Season 5. She lleft bloodstained finger marks on the glass walls after she appeared to Bill in one of his induced hallucinations in the Authority Headquarters.

In an interrogation. This is a battle. Two completely different scenarios. Humans can still be incapacitated by it, and if it's strong enough, even KO'd. Who're you talking about, the Longbottoms? They ended up in the psychiatric ward of St. Mungo's iirc after Bellatrix was through with them.

Yes, and what exactly do you think happened when Harry was receiving his lessons from Snape, apart from his emotions constantly getting on the surface, the revelation about his dad being a grade-A jerk and a high school bully, Snape constantly goading him and taunting him, calling him weak and sh1t? His mind is resistant to the Imperius Curse, which is an exceptional case as shown by faux-Moody in Book 4. Thing is, the number of times the curse works is far and away greater than the number of times it's not worked.

I see it as a case-by-case basis. You want to unnecessarily generalize it to simply being their nature. Why can't they read vamp then? Of course we know why: because vamps don't have brain waves and all that jazz, so their tp is neutralized, even though their power is magical in nature. Yet, somehow, someway, their tp being able to neutralize vamp glamoruing has something to do with their innate fae power, instead of what the show actually shows us which is....that telepathy phuckin' negates glamouring.

Already told you. Even back during the Witch Trials, Antonia was an immensely powerful witch who could draw on her coven's might to force vampires to burn in the sun. She was in a class of her own. And Voldy's even beyond her, since his form of necromancy(Inferius spell). Although I am pretty sure you'll try and make some pointless point about the Inferi magic being ineffective as well.
Outliers are generally one-offs a large leap above what should be known/possible, right? Well with those three points, its not out of the realms of possibility. He's still blitzing a room, compared to blitzing a vamp with his own super speed. We're not going to compare their speed only by visuals.
And thats why relying 100% on visuals isn't helping. If you want to only focus on visuals then the actual speed (calced visually to be less than 30m/s) would show that humans in TB must have extremely slow reactions to be completely blinded by that speed. Graphics aren't everything.
Below you said "the number of times the curse works is far and away greater than the number of times it's not worked" which goes against your view here, that vamps are constantly shown to be faster than human reactions as opposed to humans being able to tag them.

..weren't they all cases on hallucinations?

Still an impressive feat for those two to hold up completely. Do you have any examples of people being outright knocked out by it, or how long the Longbottom's took to descend to madness?

Even before the heavy emotional scene he was still failing at it, he isn't someone to be considered in this area. Exceptional case? Well, of all of those how many do we know have tried/had reason to actively resist and not just become lost in the spell? If we've seen someone forcibly try to resist and fail, then you can make the case that Harry has some apparent special resistance to this spell.

Without actual evidence, generalization is a tad better than making specific examples. And your whole pile of evidence comes from a single instance. And not a strong instance. Why? Because she was manually entering the mind of someone who has been glamoured and then resetting it. You want to go into specific case by case examples, lets, but this will mean nothing towards the auto-defence the Fae have.

Okay, she was a strong witch? And this means what? Is there some line I missed where someone says she is no longer human, when she was, to counter Bill's statement about it only working on humans, which Marnie is but a ghost is not?
Urm.. chill? O.o

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Most people put Russell at the mach 1-3 range. Wouldn't that be enough to cross 100m before someone like Voldemort can react?

If he was Mach 1 then it would take him a little under a 1/3 of a second to cross that 100 meters. That's within average human reaction time, so maybe Voldy can get in some defensive spell that would make the initial speed blitz moot. However, he is not going to have the ability to actually perceive Russell while he's crossing that 100 meters in roughly 1/3 a second, and therefore ain't getting an offensive spell off on him.

Russell can dodge anything Voldy throws at him, barring obvious low showings that True Blood vampires have that are easily able to be tossed away as lolplot.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Outliers are generally one-offs a large leap above what should be known/possible, right? Well with those three points, its not out of the realms of possibility. He's still blitzing a room, compared to blitzing a vamp with his own super speed. We're not going to compare their speed only by visuals.
And thats why relying 100% on visuals isn't helping. If you want to only focus on visuals then the actual speed (calced visually to be less than 30m/s) would show that humans in TB must have extremely slow reactions to be completely blinded by that speed. Graphics aren't everything.
Below you said "the number of times the curse works is far and away greater than the number of times it's not worked" which goes against your view here, that vamps are constantly shown to be faster than human reactions as opposed to humans being able to tag them.

..weren't they all cases on hallucinations?

Still an impressive feat for those two to hold up completely. Do you have any examples of people being outright knocked out by it, or how long the Longbottom's took to descend to madness?

Even before the heavy emotional scene he was still failing at it, he isn't someone to be considered in this area. Exceptional case? Well, of all of those how many do we know have tried/had reason to actively resist and not just become lost in the spell? If we've seen someone forcibly try to resist and fail, then you can make the case that Harry has some apparent special resistance to this spell.

Without actual evidence, generalization is a tad better than making specific examples. And your whole pile of evidence comes from a single instance. And not a strong instance. Why? Because she was manually entering the mind of someone who has been glamoured and then resetting it. You want to go into specific case by case examples, lets, but this will mean nothing towards the auto-defence the Fae have.

Okay, she was a strong witch? And this means what? Is there some line I missed where someone says she is no longer human, when she was, to counter Bill's statement about it only working on humans, which Marnie is but a ghost is not?
Urm.. chill? O.o
It absolutely is though. you don't go from getting outreflexed by a a f*cking werewolf to keeping up with a bullet shot from a gun without people raising eyebrows to it. What calcs are you talking about? The true extent and full limits of TB vamps superspeed and superstrength has never been revealed either iirc. That's only with normal humans, who're either themselves caught off-guard or aren't experienced in dealing with vampires. My point regarding Imperio has has far greater number of instances of working than not working as opposed to TB vamps blitzing slower species and getting blitzed by slower species.

Jessica Clark's interviews imply that there was more to those visions than meets the eye.

From a human perspective, yeah, maybe. It's like this: Rocky refuses to go down despite getting hammered by Drago's superpunches throughout their match, which results in brain damage in the next film. He gets KO'd by Clubber in a round instead. Which is more impressive: getting KO'd or getting brain damage? That's what this Crucio argument is about though. The Longbottoms were also pretty hardass aurors, while Russell is just a crazed idiot ever since Talbot's death. Two completely different scenarios.

When Harry KO'd that death eater who spat in McGonagall's face while he was hiding in the Ravenclaw tower. He used crucio to do so.

He was failing at making patronuses as well in the beginning, what's your point? It's pretty straight forward: Harry would more likely than not mastered Occlumency if Snape hand't been a dick in his tutoring approach. Well, for starters, pretty much the whole of Potter's classmates were failing at resisting it when faux-Moody was giving them tryout lessons. Harry never had reason to resist it either, it just came naturally to him. Barty Crouch Jr. is also the only other guy to resist it, although he was only able to do so after being under the curse's effects for years and years.

Except you don't actually have any evidence to back up your claim that it's just fae power which negated glamouring. On-screen we saw it was telepathy, but somehow, someway, it ends up getting equated to a fae magically blasting their victim. Might as well start claiming that Warlow used telepathy to break Corbett's hold over Lafayette. After all, generalizations are much better in this case. Oh wait...

Bill didn't say she was a human, he said "you're beyond that". Just as Bill referred to himself as being beyond a vampire after he merged with Lilith, even though technically he was still a vampire. I believe I have provided sufficient evidence to support the idea that glamouring won't work on Voldemort, but if you want to go ahead and enagage in pointless non-sequiter arguments, then be my guest.

Voldemort wins.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It absolutely is though. you don't go from getting outreflexed by a a f*cking werewolf to keeping up with a bullet shot from a gun without people raising eyebrows to it. What calcs are you talking about? The true extent and full limits of TB vamps superspeed and superstrength has never been revealed either iirc. That's only with normal humans, who're either themselves caught off-guard or aren't experienced in dealing with vampires. My point regarding Imperio has has far greater number of instances of working than not working as opposed to TB vamps blitzing slower species and getting blitzed by slower species.

Jessica Clark's interviews imply that there was more to those visions than meets the eye.

From a human perspective, yeah, maybe. It's like this: Rocky refuses to go down despite getting hammered by Drago's superpunches throughout their match, which results in brain damage in the next film. He gets KO'd by Clubber in a round instead. Which is more impressive: getting KO'd or getting brain damage? That's what this Crucio argument is about though. The Longbottoms were also pretty hardass aurors, while Russell is just a crazed idiot ever since Talbot's death. Two completely different scenarios.

When Harry KO'd that death eater who spat in McGonagall's face while he was hiding in the Ravenclaw tower. He used crucio to do so.

He was failing at making patronuses as well in the beginning, what's your point? It's pretty straight forward: Harry would more likely than not mastered Occlumency if Snape hand't been a dick in his tutoring approach. Well, for starters, pretty much the whole of Potter's classmates were failing at resisting it when faux-Moody was giving them tryout lessons. Harry never had reason to resist it either, it just came naturally to him. Barty Crouch Jr. is also the only other guy to resist it, although he was only able to do so after being under the curse's effects for years and years.

Except you don't actually have any evidence to back up your claim that it's just fae power which negated glamouring. On-screen we saw it was telepathy, but somehow, someway, it ends up getting equated to a fae magically blasting their victim. Might as well start claiming that Warlow used telepathy to break Corbett's hold over Lafayette. After all, generalizations are much better in this case. Oh wait...

Bill didn't say she was a human, he said "you're beyond that". Just as Bill referred to himself as being beyond a vampire after he merged with Lilith, even though technically he was still a vampire. I believe I have provided sufficient evidence to support the idea that glamouring won't work on Voldemort, but if you want to go ahead and enagage in pointless non-sequiter arguments, then be my guest.

Voldemort wins.
No no, but its possible when your younger vamp kin is Ma0.3 and you're able to blitz those at that level. Approaching Ma1 is possible. Calcs based on the visual blur speed, frame by frame. Purely visuals and nothing more. Do you actually want to get the figures and compare the number of times? Its going to be on the vamps side. Lets start with a yes no; Do you believe that normal in-the-know humans have no issues with following the movements of all vampires?

Gonna need a little more than a vague unseen quote. Does consuming her blood summon her ghost or create a hallucination?

And if the two did not get any following issues? TBH we could take the damage left on the statue as what the host is feeling.

Simple, its stated that he's not good at it. But, again, even without anything hurting his thoughts he couldn't, but that meant nothing as he was able to resist Tom's control a year back.

Where did you get blasting from, honestly? Looking past that mini-rant, do you believe that we can make specific statements when lacking all but the enough evidence to form one of two hints?

"I can only glamour humans. You are far beyond that." In response to Bill glamouring Marnie earlier. More than a human is still technically a human. A ghost, is not. Hang on, the same Bill who saw himself to be god? And seeing as I already said Tom would stand a chance against Glamour due to his strong will the instant you said it, its not just me in this tango.

Originally posted by BloodRain
No no, but its possible when your younger vamp kin is Ma0.3 and you're able to blitz those at that level. Approaching Ma1 is possible. Calcs based on the visual blur speed, frame by frame. Purely visuals and nothing more. Do you actually want to get the figures and compare the number of times? Its going to be on the vamps side. Lets start with a yes no; Do you believe that normal in-the-know humans have no issues with following the movements of all vampires?

Gonna need a little more than a vague unseen quote. Does consuming her blood summon her ghost or create a hallucination?

And if the two did not get any following issues? TBH we could take the damage left on the statue as what the host is feeling.

Simple, its stated that he's not good at it. But, again, even without anything hurting his thoughts he couldn't, but that meant nothing as he was able to resist Tom's control a year back.

Where did you get blasting from, honestly? Looking past that mini-rant, do you believe that we can make specific statements when lacking all but the enough evidence to form one of two hints?

"I can only glamour humans. You are far beyond that." In response to Bill glamouring Marnie earlier. More than a human is still technically a human. A ghost, is not. Hang on, the same Bill who saw himself to be god? And seeing as I already said Tom would stand a chance against Glamour due to his strong will the instant you said it, its not just me in this tango.
Considering that a ready and prepped Jason was able to shoot down a bunch of speeding vamps at his way in the Authority HQ; I'd say yes, a a prepped human has a chance of evading a speeding up vamp if there is sufficient distance between them.

Look up her interview. She clearly implied that there was more to those "hallucinations" than we were let on. Hell, watch that episode in which Lilith's visions appear to the Bill and she invites him into draining the vial of her blood dry. You'll see that I am right.

Except they did go through issues after they were rescued from Lestrange's torture. It resulted in them being admitted into St. Mungo's hospital. Hell, that's the sort of thing that can happen in rl-scenarios where a victim of of a vicious interrogation refuses to rat anything out. It can often result in severe psychological trauma to the point of insanity.

The reasons for why he's not good at it are also stated. Read the books for a change instead of just relying on author quotes. He never had a need to resist Tom's thoughts in the final book, as he felt that he could use it to his own advantage. With crucio, it's practically like a hardwired ability to resist mind control. Leglimency is also more or less about reading other people's minds to know when you're being lied to, rather than mind control which is what Imperio is all about. In canon, only Crouch Jr. and Potter have resisted it. The former of which, as mentioned before, had to be exposed to the curse for years before he could begin develop resistance to it.

I got blasting from the fact that it was...well, blasting which undid Marnie's spells and Lafayette's possession. Considering that there is no amount of evidence lacking here, yes, in this case we absolutely can.

"More than a human is still technically a human. A ghost, is not." So you concede that any sufficiently powerful witch can resist glamouring? Good. And you also concede that Voldy is capable of resisting glamouring? Very good. Seems like this debate is finally reaching its conclusion.

Your forgetting that Voldemort had non verbal spells aswell as protego which seems to be able to block all but the unforgivable curse depending on your magical strength

And of there's an arguament about unforgivable curses only being verbal spells there is always "reducto" whish reduces whatever it touches to dust

*Bump*

Still Voldemort.

Voldemort wins. Just too powerful.