Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

DoE and RotS incarnations.

1. Sabers
2. All Out

Not sure if these incarnations have been done before.

Naboo Plains during the day

Both combatants start thirty meters apart.

Bane in both. Rather easily.

kenobi would put up a decent fight at best in sabers, and get crushed in the force

bane handily

Not sure. Leaning Kenobi here, but might be a split.

Lmao.

the only thing i see kenobi having a (possible) advantage in is sabers

Bane is faster, stronger and more powerful. He'll whoop Kenobi in lightsabers.

Don't see his speed advantage. Kenobi's got the edge in skill.

Gotta love seeing people short-change kenobi

plus kenobi's form perfectly counteracts Bane's Djem So, and he was able to best anakin (most likely superior to bane) due to anakin getting frustrated (same thing will most likely happen to bane)

Obi wan and Anakin have both deflected fire from entire armies. They have also seen sublight ships in slow motion.

On Utapau, his speed and defensive abilities afforded him the ability to deflect blaster bolts from over 10000 droids. (Novelization)

Lolwut? **** off is that true.

yeah, and people have to seriously give the PT the respect it deserves, like saying the average dark council member > kenobi, or vitiate > Luke, the list goes on

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
yeah, and people have to seriously give the PT the respect it deserves, like saying the average dark council member > kenobi, or vitiate > Luke, the list goes on


Agreed. Average Dark Council Member>Kenobi WTF!?.

Kenobi takes sabers, Bane takes the Force... not sure about all-out.

oh, my favorite is: 3-4 dark council members would give prime luke a tough time

That's my favorite too.

im starting to lean towards kenobi now, considering he prolly has the edge in sabers (bane has NOT beaten anyone noteworthy with sabers, other than featless kas'im, who probably isnt obi wan-level, or at least hasnt mastered trollesu to the extent obi-wan has.)
in the force, bane most likely takes it, due to some pretty powerful lightning (although obi wan could prolly block it), and his powerful telekenesis, although the force competition is not nearly as lopsided as people think. ultimately, obi wan wins, due to his impeccable defense (can block blaster bolts from entire armies) coupled with his saber mastery and overall skill.

Kenobi seriously does not have an advantage in sabers. Bane was so fast that he was able to appear to wield a dozen lightsabers to Zannah, who herself is a powerful Sith Lord. He's also moved quick enough to appear invisible to a hall of trained Sith, including Kas'im by the way, in that it took a second for them to even register that he'd moved. He's also blocked and dodged out of the way of every raindrop in a howling storm for a full 20 minutes, displaying incredible skill and speed. In terms of skill Bane memorised hundreds of thousands of sequances in a few short months, amazing Kas'im with his progress. He defeated a swordsman greater than Kenobi, through his sheer power and lighsaber knowledge. Obi-Wan has nothing to challenge him with.

Obi-Wan can NOT block blaster bolts from entire armies and the Force competition very much is as lopsided as it appears.

i believe in the ROTS he does block all of dem blaster bolts, gonna go look it up now.

"His blast-deflection skills were further developed to the point where Kenobi could literally walk unscathed through hornet-swarms of blasterfire, single-handedly deflecting blasts from all directions simultaneously"

^Not to mention he's stalemated Maul, and pwned ROTS GG.

Thats from Wookieepedia.

that it is

Judging youuuuuuuuu..... sneer

wookiepedia is a serviceable source, it's rare that i come across extreme misinformation or blatant ignorance

Obi-Wan went toe-to-toe with a more powerful, more skilled, and better trained Sith Lord in the form of Darth Maul. By ROTS, Obi-Wan is the definite favorite.

Also, lol

Except that I have the scene in question in front of me and its clearly non-canon and contradictory to the movie.


Just like most of the book...... crackers

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Obi-Wan went toe-to-toe with a more powerful, more skilled, and better trained Sith Lord in the form of Darth Maul. By ROTS, Obi-Wan is the definite favorite.

Also, lol

That 'Nephthys' guy sounds like quite the handsome devil....

exactly

Bane has never gone up against a foe as powerful as maul on EVEN TERMS (except MAYBE zannah, whom he was slain by)

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
exactly

Bane has never gone up against a foe as powerful as maul on EVEN TERMS (except MAYBE zannah, whom he was slain by)

The only reason Bane might appear to be more powerful than someone of Maul's caliber is pure stylistic variance; an otherwise nebulous conclusion if not for the fact that we know conclusively Maul ranks among the best of all time, that Bane's order progressed with respect to power in the intervening generations, and that the entire guiding principle of the Rule of Two was contingent on each Sith surpassing his or her predecessor.

Just like I don't put that one chick who held a Venator class Star Destroyer aloft in the CWC miniseries above Yoda, I don't put Bane above Maul.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
, and that the entire guiding principle of the Rule of Two was contingent on each Sith surpassing his or her predecessor.

Except for, y'know, Maul.

Nah, Maul had the potential to become an extremely potent sith (he may have even surpassed sidious, and if not, would be very close)

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except for, y'know, Maul.

That Sidious is an exception does not mean Bane is. Nor does it mean that Maul was incapable of surpassing Sidious as time went on.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That Sidious is an exception does not mean Bane is. Nor does it mean that Maul was incapable of surpassing Sidious as time went on.

Nor does it mean that he isn't, or that he would. Maul is clearly not close to Sidious as of CW and considering how intense his training has been, I highly doubt he's only unlocked a portion of his potential.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nor does it mean that he isn't, or that he would. Maul is clearly not close to Sidious as of CW and considering how intense his training has been, I highly doubt he's only unlocked a portion of his potential.

And until such a time as Bane is identified as an exception, I see no reason to treat him as though he were. Just like, in a retarded fashion typical of SWTOR, I do not assume the non-Force sensitive Han Solo can use the Force or is in some respect Force-resistant in a fight just because Vitiate's non-Force sensitive Imperial Guard is and are.

Perhaps. But even after a considerable period of training, Palpatine's own powers swelled between Endor and Byss. So there again, I see no reason to believe that Maul was running out of midi-juice or that, just because he's not close to Palpatine doesn't mean he's not close to Bane.

Palpatine is more powerful than Bane.

far, far more powerful than bane

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And until such a time as Bane is identified as an exception, I see no reason to treat him as though he were. Just like, in a retarded fashion typical of SWTOR, I do not assume the non-Force sensitive Han Solo can use the Force or is in some respect Force-resistant in a fight just because Vitiate's non-Force sensitive Imperial Guard is and are.

Perhaps. But even after a considerable period of training, Palpatine's own powers swelled between Endor and Byss. So there again, I see no reason to believe that Maul was running out of midi-juice or that, just because he's not close to Palpatine doesn't mean he's not close to Bane.

Palpatine is more powerful than Bane.

Except that Bane himself is not the exception, Maul is. You can argue that the rest of them surpassed him all you want, but since Maul is specifically not part of the chain of Apprentice>Master then he is completely exempt from the quote in all circumstances. Do you think he's above Plagueis as well just because Plagueis is not mentioned as an exception?

And again, it doesn't mean that he is close to Bane. In this case the only way we can compare the two is based on their showings, in which Bane is far and away the superior.

No u.

How is Maul not part of the Master-apprentice chain? And no, I wouldn't put him above Plagueis at this point because I wouldn't put Palpatine above Plagueis at that point.

Do I think he could have surpassed Plagueis? It's not outside the realm of possibility.

If we restrict ourselves to simple feat wars, then Starkiller outright dominates Bane. Would you accept that? No, of course not, you'd fight to the bitter end and suggest we not confine ourselves to feat wars.

If we go by feats, then I'd favor one way. But I think going by naked feats alone is really kinda silly, no matter who it is.

Well, Plagueis was likely even superior to Sidious when he was killed, and Maul isn't that far down the chain from Plagueis as he is with Bane, though.

I said point twice, whoops.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I said point twice, whoops.


Well maybe I just wanna be your eco.

Also, I think Neph had a chance against Silver in that debate had it continued. It was the Nihilus vs Yoda thread that he had absolutely no hope on winning.

Thank you.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
How is Maul not part of the Master-apprentice chain? And no, I wouldn't put him above Plagueis at this point because I wouldn't put Palpatine above Plagueis at that point.

Do I think he could have surpassed Plagueis? It's not outside the realm of possibility.

Mauls not part of the chain of apprentices surpassing their masters, since he did not surpass Sidious. Therefore he can't be said to be above Bane by virtue of that line of logic.

Ok, I can agree that its not unreasonable to think that he could become that powerful, but that fact is that Maul didn't. He was killed before he could challenge Sidious or fulfill his potential, whatever that may have been. Therefore he's still exempt from the quote and the RoT line.

Neph, when not surrounded by the haze of bad writing and unoriginality that is SWTORwell, anything he really likes... isn't entirely without talent.

But Silver is perhaps the foremost authority on Palpatine in the interwebz, perhaps beyond even myself. It is possible that he could be... the Reborn Gideon.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Interesting line in Sith Hunters: That Maul survived be cleaved in two because his rage was so powerful and because "His Knowledge of the Dark Side was so Great."

Although it's Kenobi explaining it, but seems like it was Filoni and Katie Lucas who put that line in to explain how Maul survived- They get a special thanks at the end of the comic.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And until such a time as Bane is identified as an exception, I see no reason to treat him as though he were. Just like, in a retarded fashion typical of SWTOR, I do not assume the non-Force sensitive Han Solo can use the Force or is in some respect Force-resistant in a fight just because Vitiate's non-Force sensitive Imperial Guard is and are.

Perhaps. But even after a considerable period of training, Palpatine's own powers swelled between Endor and Byss. So there again, I see no reason to believe that Maul was running out of midi-juice or that, just because he's not close to Palpatine doesn't mean he's not close to Bane.

Palpatine is more powerful than Bane.

I accept your conclusion. But the Bane line wasn't an absolute linear progression.

Otherwise, if Sidious at his peak is 100, and every sith were 5% stronger at their peak than their master, and a new generation of sith were born, say, every 25 years...

Darth Bane would only be around 16% of Palpatine's power.

Yeah, it's like the flynn effect. Sidious > Bane, but IMO, Bane at his peak> everybody in his line except Palpatine and Plagueis.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well maybe I just wanna be your eco.

Also, I think Neph had a chance against Silver in that debate had it continued. It was the Nihilus vs Yoda thread that he had absolutely no hope on winning.

Link to Nihilus Vs Yoda lol.

Bane wore orbalisks, which induces pain, when he created 12 after images to Zannah who wasn't at her peak. She presumably grows stronger by the third book.

Blaster bolts fly faster than rain.


"
... finality of a meteor strike.

Two, three, and four. Oh, thought Obi-Wan with detached approval. That worked out rather well. Only ten thousand to go. Give or take. An instant later the Force had him hurtling through a storm of blasterfire as every combat droid in the control center opened up on him at once. Letting go of intention, letting go of desire, letting go of life, Obi-Wan fixed his entire attention on a thread of the Force that pulled him toward Grievous: not where Grievous was, but where Grievous would be when Obi-Wan got there...

Leaping girder to girder, slashing cables on which to swing through swarms of ricocheting particle beams, blade flickering so fast it became a deflector shield that splattered blaster bolts in all directions, his presence alone became a weapon: as he spun and whirled through the control center's superstructure, the blasts of particle cannons from power droids destroyed equipment and shattered girders and unleashed a torrent of red-hot debris that crashed to the deck, crushing droids on all sides. By the time he flipped down through the air to land cat-footed on the deck once more, nearly half the droids between him and Grievous had been destroyed by their own not-so-friendly fire. He cut his way into the mob of remaining troops as smoothly as if it were no more than a canebrake near some sunlit beach; his steady pace left behind a trail of smoking slices of droid.

"Keep firing!" Grievous roared to the spider droids that flanked him. "Blast him!"
"

Which never happens in the movie.

EU feats on an EU forum?

An EU character vs EU depictions of another character?

If we go by movies only, then Bane doesn't really exist at all. All the Jedi move at human speed since the actors are only capable of moving that fast. Anakin is only slightly faster than Padme, going by the movies.

And you know, a few pages after that it shows that Grievous's 20 strikes per second was too fast for Kenobi's defenses to shrug off. Logically he shouldn't be able to deflect more than 25-ish blaster bolts over second, which is re-Inforced by that statement that the best Soresu masters could even defend against nearly 30 shooters or something.

Bane's deflecting Rain feat shows us similar magnitude in terms of speed and skill with blast deflection and whatnot.

Also--Just curious--If Dooku could ragdoll Kenobi, why couldn't Bane? Lol. I don't see how he loses this.

Because Bane isn't as powerful as Dooku?

Drops of water does not travel anywhere as quick as blaster bolts.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Drops of water does not travel anywhere as quick as blaster bolts.
Never thought about it like that.

With that in mind...

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Because Bane isn't as powerful as Dooku?

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
EU feats on an EU forum?

An EU character vs EU depictions of another character?

If we go by movies only, then Bane doesn't really exist at all. All the Jedi move at human speed since the actors are only capable of moving that fast. Anakin is only slightly faster than Padme, going by the movies.

Grievious specifically orders his men NOT to fire on Kenobi in the movie. Kenobi does not have to fight to get to him, nor defend himself at all from blasterfire in that scene.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And you know, a few pages after that it shows that Grievous's 20 strikes per second was too fast for Kenobi's defenses to shrug off. Logically he shouldn't be able to deflect more than 25-ish blaster bolts over second, which is re-Inforced by that statement that the best Soresu masters could even defend against nearly 30 shooters or something.

Except that Grievous doesn't even attack him 20 times before Kenobi takes his first hand........

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Because Bane isn't as powerful as Dooku?

Hyukhyukhyuk!

Originally posted by Nephthys

Except that Grievous doesn't even attack him 20 times before Kenobi takes his first hand........



Then Mace and Sidious don't strike dozens of times per second or move like blurs as well. In fact they're both as slow as Sam and Ian.

Not exactly the same thing.

Why?

Because a specific number of attacks isn't tied to that duel. Kenobi cuts off one of Grievous' hands after he starts attacking him with 20 attacks per second when in reality he doesn't attack that many times in the entire sequence before that.

I only just realised NewGuy01 was agreeing with me...... http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/negativeman-55f.png

lol

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because a specific number of attacks isn't tied to that duel. Kenobi cuts off one of Grievous' hands after he starts attacking him with 20 attacks per second when in reality he doesn't attack that many times in the entire sequence before that.

And I doubt Mace attacks "dozens of times" in his whole fight with Sidious. So it is the same thing.

If we throw out Grievous attacking 20 times per second, then we have to likewise throw out Mace's "Dozens of strikes in one instance."

I really don't care either way, but keep it consistent. Either we throw them both out, or we accept both speed feats as canon.

Well I throw out Windu's whole speed description in his fight with Sidious anyway so whatevs.

Bane might lose a strict lightsaber duel against Kenobi, but he's not losing a Force fight or an all out.