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Anakin as of ROTS, with full rest in btwn. fights. how far does he get?

1. Saesee Tiin

2. Darth Maul TPM

3. Luke Skywalker (ESB)

4. Count Dooku

5. Prime Revan

6. Prime Kyle Katarn

7. Luke Skywalker (RotJ)

How far does he get?

2 and 3 need to be switched, anyways.

1.Anakin wins. Some trouble.
2.Anakin wins in a close fight.
3.Anakin SLAUGHTERHOUSE.
4.Anakin wins 3-4 fights out of 10. Could win depending on mindset.

If he gets by 4 which is very possible.

He might beat 5 or 6 and beats 7.

So he could clear depending on 4. POssible.

serious underestimation for luke, he beat lord vader, who at that time was 80% of sidious, and in ESB he puts up a damn good fight

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
serious underestimation for luke, he beat lord vader, who at that time was 80% of sidious, and in ESB he puts up a damn good fight

1.ESB Luke is not above Maul, and Vader was toying with him.
2.Vader and Luke stalemated in skill. When Luke got mad he overpowered Vader. Vader=Luke in sabers. But if Vader had used his power(force) Luke would have died fast. Dooku>Vader in sabers, so Dooku>Luke with a saber obviously.

im honestly not so sure that i can say Dooku > Vader in sabers, considering that he had a very unique style, implementing ALL forms of lighsaber combat into one, ruthlessly efficient style.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
im honestly not so sure that i can say Dooku > Vader in sabers, considering that he had a very unique style, implementing ALL forms of lighsaber combat into one, ruthlessly efficient style.

Dooku also had knowledge of all forms. What's your point?
Even against this very unique style utilizing all forms, old dried up Ben Kenobi was able to fight him to an impasse.
Do you seriously think Old Obi-Wan Kenobi would last more than a minute against Dooku?

isnt it stated somewhere that vader knew what to do this time, and instead didnt get caught up in his emotions? then kenobi figures out he wont be able to beat vader, so instead of continuing the fight, he sacrifices himself to teach skywalker one last lesson.

Edit: plus this isnt even vader in his prime.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
isnt it stated somewhere that vader knew what to do this time, and instead didnt get caught up in his emotions? then kenobi figures out he wont be able to beat vader, so instead of continuing the fight, he sacrifices himself to teach skywalker one last lesson.

Edit: plus this isnt even vader in his prime.

Even if that's true. That doesn't mean Vader would beat Kenobi. The two of them were at an impasse. Dooku would pwn Old Kenobi even more quickly than he did Prime Kenobi.

In Sabers? because if i remember correctly (from the novel) dooku marvels at obi-wans improvements, and only overpowers him with the force, NOT his skill with the blade.

Edit: vader pwns kenobi prty quickly too in ANH, since kenobi got tired quickly, and knew he couldn't possibly win.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dooku also had knowledge of all forms. What's your point?
Even against this very unique style utilizing all forms, old dried up Ben Kenobi was able to fight him to an impasse.
Do you seriously think Old Obi-Wan Kenobi would last more than a minute against Dooku?

ROTJ Vader>>>>>ANH Vader in sabers.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
im honestly not so sure that i can say Dooku > Vader in sabers, considering that he had a very unique style, implementing ALL forms of lighsaber combat into one, ruthlessly efficient style.



While Dooku may be superior in sabers. I don't think it is nearly as large a degree as some people make it out to be.

Originally posted by ares834


While Dooku may be superior in sabers. I don't think it is nearly as large a degree as some people make it out to be.

Agreed. And in the force.....

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
ROTJ Vader>>>>>ANH Vader in sabers.

Prove it flyboy. Your copious use of the greater than sign doesn't help your argument.

And before you quote the line in the ROTJ novel where Vader is musing he's at the height of his power.
1. That's a character statement.
2. Prove he was referring specifically to lightsaber combat.

Vader's greatest saber feat to my knowledge is in Purge. Since then I have seen nothing that gives me the notion that his saber technique has improved to give him a solid win over Dooku more times than not.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Prove it flyboy. Your copious use of the greater than sign doesn't help your argument.

And before you quote the line in the ROTJ novel where Vader is musing he's at the height of his power.
1. That's a character statement.
2. Prove he was referring specifically to lightsaber combat.

Vader's greatest saber feat to my knowledge is in Purge. Since then I have seen nothing that gives me the notion that his saber technique has improved to give him a solid win over Dooku more times than not.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Darth%20Vader/VaderismorepowerfulinESBthaninANH_zps8bfb3954.png

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Prove it flyboy. Your copious use of the greater than sign doesn't help your argument.

And before you quote the line in the ROTJ novel where Vader is musing he's at the height of his power.
1. That's a character statement.
2. Prove he was referring specifically to lightsaber combat.

Vader's greatest saber feat to my knowledge is in Purge. Since then I have seen anything that gives me the notion that his saber technique has improved to give him a solid win over Dooku more times than not.

Clears, unless Revan can beat him.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Prove it flyboy. Your copious use of the greater than sign doesn't help your argument.

And before you quote the line in the ROTJ novel where Vader is musing he's at the height of his power.
1. That's a character statement.
2. Prove he was referring specifically to lightsaber combat.

Vader's greatest saber feat to my knowledge is in Purge. Since then I have seen nothing that gives me the notion that his saber technique has improved to give him a solid win over Dooku more times than not.

DID I ever SAY ROTJ Vader>Dooku in sabers?????. No, I said Vader IMPROVED as of ROTJ then his ANH incarnation. I would say Dooku beats him in sabers, but no doubt ROTJ Vader>>>>>ANH Vader in sabers, and Dooku WOULD PWN ANH Vader in sabers.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Clears, unless Revan can beat him.




If not "zoned" Dooku and Revan will be difficult, and Skywalker could lose or win at either of them. Zoned he definitely clears it.

Order is messed up.



4 and 5 are the hardest by far. If Anakin can go "in teh zone", he clears this. Otherwise, he stops at 4 or 5.

Isn't RotJ Luke similar to Anakin ( without the deflecting fire from armies part )?

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
DID I ever SAY ROTJ Vader>Dooku in sabers?????. No, I said Vader IMPROVED as of ROTJ then his ANH incarnation. I would say Dooku beats him in sabers, but no doubt ROTJ Vader>>>>>ANH Vader in sabers, and Dooku WOULD PWN ANH Vader in sabers.


ROTJ Vader>ANH Vader, stop using >>>>. It makes you look like a blabbering idiot unless you are referring to a huge differential in power.

Sidious>>>>>Kit Fisto. Sidious is not>>>>>Mace Windu though.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Isn't RotJ Luke similar to Anakin ( without the deflecting fire from armies part )?
Nah.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
serious underestimation for luke, he beat lord vader, who at that time was 80% of sidious, and in ESB he puts up a damn good fight Lol at ESB Luke doing anything to Anakin, he'll get floored.

Dooku is his only really difficult match, Kyle would be a good match. Revan could beat him, if he spams force powers the whole match.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
im honestly not so sure that i can say Dooku > Vader in sabers, considering that he had a very unique style, implementing ALL forms of lighsaber combat into one, ruthlessly efficient style.

Whilst Vader by RotJ has grown considerably stronger since ANH, he's still no match for Dooku in sabers. His combining the classical forms (to compensate for his disadvantage) wouldn't put him beyond someone who has a high level knowledge of every form. OOU, various authorities have designated RotS Anakin as the most powerful incarnation in respect to lightsaber skill. I see Vader doing better against Dooku than their raw ability would suggest due to his even more powerful djem so, but he's still not lasting very long. I mean, could you see RotJ Luke facing against Dooku?

Originally posted by Master Han
Whilst Vader by RotJ has grown considerably stronger since ANH, he's still no match for Dooku in sabers. His combining the classical forms (to compensate for his disadvantage) wouldn't put him beyond someone who has a high level knowledge of every form. OOU, various authorities have designated RotS Anakin as the most powerful incarnation in respect to lightsaber skill. I see Vader doing better against Dooku than their raw ability would suggest due to his even more powerful djem so, but he's still not lasting very long. I mean, could you see RotJ Luke facing against Dooku?

Also it was always Lucas' intention for the PT duelists to be beyond the OT ones. ROTJ Luke would get curbstomped by the PT top tier, bloodlusted or not.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also it was always Lucas' intention for the PT duelists to be beyond the OT ones. ROTJ Luke would get curbstomped by the PT top tier, bloodlusted or not.

No shit, sherlock.

Wow, I really disagree with that. Until recently I thought like that, but the quotes talking about him being equal to Vader make him seem alot more powerful than you give him credit for. Assuming by top tier you mean, Obi-Wan, Kit Fisto etc, not Yoda. Obviously he'd lose to Yoda, but not because he's just an inferior duelist.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
No shit, sherlock.

How about you just shut up until you have something intelligent to contribute you useless plebe.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, I really disagree with that. Until recently I thought like that, but the quotes talking about him being equal to Vader make him seem alot more powerful than you give him credit for. Assuming by top tier you mean, Obi-Wan, Kit Fisto etc, not Yoda. Obviously he'd lose to Yoda, but not because he's just an inferior duelist.

PT top tiers are Yoda, Dooku, Anakin, and Mace.

High tiers start with Kenobi.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
How about you just shut up


No. U gorilla.

I would say

1.Top Tier:Palpatine,Yoda, Dooku, Windu
2.High Tier:Kenobi, Maul
3.High High Mid Tier:Fisto, Tiin, Kolar

Anakin is in between 1/2 depending on his mood.

Nah Skywalker was top-tier. Even as of TCW he was consistently stalemating Count Dooku (in an all out as well).

He lost to Kenobi because:

1) They couldn't get past each others defenses as they knew each others moves inside out (Nick Gillard/ROTS Novel) and
2) He was in the wrong mind set for that fight, which contributes massively to combat performance (according to Dave Filoni when commenting on TCW fights inconsistencies).

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
No. U gorilla.

Gorilla? Is that a play at my race? At least I can spell and use proper grammar. http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series2/kruemelmonster.gif

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Gorilla? Is that a play at my race?

You're a redguard?

If you ever marry a white girl, watch out for rotjvader. He has a thing against interracial marriage. And god save you if it's a white guy...

Originally posted by Master Han
You're a redguard?

If you ever marry a white girl, watch out for rotjvader. He has a thing against interracial marriage. And god save you if it's a white guy...

Lol shut up you pro-gay marriage, anti-american liberal freak you are a complete joke.

Why don't you get a job, loser.

why are you bringing in your irrelevant (at least on this thread) political bullshit, you two?

Originally posted by Master Han
You're a redguard?

If you ever marry a white girl, watch out for rotjvader. He has a thing against interracial marriage. And god save you if it's a white guy...

Why should I care if he wants to marry a white girl. U dumb tree hugger who supports illegal immigrants.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nah Skywalker was top-tier. Even as of TCW he was consistently stalemating Count Dooku (in an all out as well).

He lost to Kenobi because:

1) They couldn't get past each others defenses as they knew each others moves inside out (Nick Gillard/ROTS Novel) and
2) He was in the wrong mind set for that fight, which contributes massively to combat performance (according to Dave Filoni when commenting on TCW fights inconsistencies).

I mean't in his state on Mustafar. Jedi Anakin is top.

Honestly he probably clears it, although I heard ROTJ Luke is more powerful than ROTS Anakin.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Honestly he probably clears it, although I heard ROTJ Luke is more powerful than ROTS Anakin.

He's not. But he could give ROTS Anakin a DAMN good fight.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Why should I care if he wants to marry a white girl.

You shouldn't. But you say that you do.

Originally posted by Master Han
You shouldn't. But you say that you do.

No I didint so stop making up shit you ****ing troll LOL. You believe all rich people should be killed and america should be taken over by terrorists and that we should all LIVE LIKE ANIMALS for your gayass environment. Your a liberal freak and a racist LOL.

...ok, then. On ignore you go.

Originally posted by Master Han
...ok, then. On ignore you go.

Lol shut up you racist you believe Blacks should have no free will and be poor and enslaved in the ghetto and not work and just live of welfare and listen to their white liberal masters. I believe people of all races(dosint matter what race) should be able to do whatever they want and thrive in capitalism and freedom and that blacks should thrive in capitalism. Your a racist and a ignorant bastard you socialist freak suck my right-wing conservative dick. Its also hillarous how you keep saying Im opposed to interracial marriage when Im not(since that would mean Im against MY OWN ****ING EXISTENCE!) you socialist hippy bastard suck my right-wing conservative dick.

Anyways, Anakin should clear this gauntlet in general if he can get past Dooku.

A very casual skimming of the Anakin vs Dooku videos on youtube doesn't necessarily suggest that he's yet matched Dooku at baseline. There has to be a reason beyond copious amounts of crack that Dooku would feel confident in going easy on Anakin and Obi Wan.

Originally posted by Master Han
You're a redguard?



I am indeed a redguard.

Originally posted by Master Han
A very casual skimming of the Anakin vs Dooku videos on youtube doesn't necessarily suggest that he's yet matched Dooku at baseline. There has to be a reason beyond copious amounts of crack that Dooku would feel confident in going easy on Anakin and Obi Wan.


He went easy on them? News to me.


Dooku's Force Powers still gave him the edge over Skywalker throughout their encounters in TCW. So maybe he was still (over)confident he could destroy him that way.

And who knows perhaps by ROTS Dooku had furthered his study of the Dark Side which would have made him even more confident.

I find it hard to believe Dooku was going easy on him in CW Han, when Anakins choking the shit out of him, knocking him down and pushing him back. Even when Dooku does manage to beat Anakin with the help of his magnaguards here, he's visibly out of breath despite the fact that he's barely done anything. By all indication the effort just in putting Anakin down is tiring for him even when he has an open opportunity to attack and Skywalkers weakened and barely fighting back.

^I was referring to the RotS novelization, where Dooku initially intends to go easy on the duo and let Anakin win. He realizes that he's underestimated them; but he certainly would not have done so if Anakin were already handing him his ass in TCW.

Out of universe, the obvious answer is that the initial intention was for RotS to be the second time Anakin and Dooku meet ("my powers have double since the last time we met". In universe...it's tough to say.

I realise, but you've expressed before that you think its possible Dooku was holding back in the CW, so thats what I thought you were driving at.

Personally, I think its possible that Dooku really is just that deluded. His arrogance blinds him to Skywalker constantly pushing him, assuring himself that the boy is no real threat to him when Anakin is in fact rather close to him even ignoring Zonakin.

^ Yes in their last battle in TCW Dooku's final line is "Well done Master Kenobi, you are worthy adversary. I can not say the same about your apprentice!"

He said this just because Kenobi jumped in last minute and "saved" Palpatine, whilst Skywalker was the one who came close to killing Dooku.

So basically Dooku is just too damn arrogant to admit the threat Skywalker has always been to him.

As for the ROTS novel, a lot of that portion is rendered non-canon. For instance the duo duping him with fake forms. It's impossible that Dooku doesn't know Skywalker's form by this point. Similarly the novel making out Dooku took it easy on the duo might also be rendered non-canon. There was certainly no sign of him taking it easy on them in the movie.

Totally agree on all points.

His overconfidence was his doom. Kinda.

Is TCW higher canon than the movie-novels?

No, it isn't.

Originally posted by Master Han
Is TCW higher canon than the movie-novels?


It's created by Lucas.. So it can't be lower in canon than books not actually written by Lucas. Although he is involved with the movie-novels.

And if Lucas contradicts himself then it's a case of Newer Canon overrides Older Canon. Because you know how often Lucas changes his mind or just outright contradicts himself.