Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Ah, just to change things up.

The Yuuzhan Vong invasion complex, at the onset of NJO: Vector Prime, attempts to conquer the following civilizations.

Full rest/revival/etc.

1. Ragnos's Sith Empire
2. Naga Sadow's Sith Empire
3. Galactic Republic and Sith Empire circa TOR
4. PT Galactic Republic and Confederacy of Independent Systems
5. The Galactic Federation of Free Alliances circa Dark Nest
6. The Galactic Empire at its height
7. United galaxy, Legacy era

Dunno.

2.

Wat?

Originally posted by Nephthys
2.

Loses at 4 or 6. The Clone wars era SW tech is much better than 1-3, still using a star as a power source to pump out ships and considering it to be top tier tech. PT republic and CIS however are more modern and are much stronger. As for the GE, they win since even Luke admitted that the GE could have beaten the Vomg.

Originally posted by Master Han


How do they deal with Naga Sadows illusions?

They get stomped.

Well the Illusions were strong, but this is an interesting case whether or not since they're made from the Force will affect the Vong.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How do they deal with Naga Sadows illusions?


By being disconnected from the Force?

What are the magnitude of Sadow's illusions?
Has he created actual starfleets with them?
Would this matter against ships that can hang with modern-SW era weaponry?
Isn't this Empire only consisting of a few hundred planets?

The Sith Empire only had 16 planets under their belt and they fought a Republic that was very young. And it was a surprise attack as well. Not to mention you see capital ships hitting planets with their weaponry and only destroying buildings during the battle of Coruscant, so their weaponry is like sub-Kiloton.

^well, to be fair, they probably weren't using full firepower, since it's indicated that they could have destroyed the entire planet's surface if they wanted to. They wanted to hold it hostage, not destroy it.

Huh, if so then I'm mistaken. Well we know the Republic later destroyed Korriban and they didn't glass it, just wiped out the Civilizations on them along with every other Sith planet.

TBH, you can find plenty of low firepower showings from across every era, in every canon. Such as LotF: Inferno. Leland Chee has confirmed Saxton's ICS's firepower statements as canon (and the "first place look), but the exact magnitude of disparity between ancient and new technology is still arguable.

But it's certainly massive, given that the most cutting edge PT technology was already obsolete by ANH.

Well if we use ship sizes to compare the power generation they can dish out, the biggest ship during the Jedi Civil War was the Leviathan, and that was only 600 meters. The smallest Star destroyer is the Acclamator-I, and that was 752 meters. And the Vong had ships that can one shot them, hell the CIS did. And Capital ships for the Republic like the Hammerhead were only 315 meters. So during Naga's time they're probably smaller. Hell, the Derriphan-class Sith Battleship was only 215 meters. And that was the most powerful Sith ship, and it didn't even have Turbolasers, it had something called Autoblasters and 3 concussion missile launchers with 60 of those missiles.

Oh, certainly, Naga Sadow's empire would get steamrolled by even the pre-AotC Republic navy. Nephthys also argued that Vitiate's sith empire could defeat the Galactic Empire.

The Vong would crush the early Sith empires, too much number and power.


The Galactic Republic and Sith Empire circa TOR... are a lot bigger, but still not as big as things will become, and their ships aren't as strong as later ones. Lots of Jedi/Sith warriors would help, but... I'd say probably the Vong. Best-case, only one of them falls, worst, both do.


PT Galactic Republic and Confederacy of Independent Systems. Depends on how quickly they can militarize, but the galaxy is big and the production of the galaxy ramping up. They'll stop the Vong, quite possibly even faster than the slow response of the Vong war did, though with many many casualties and plenty of planets lost.



The Galactic Federation of Free Alliances circa Dark Nest. Well, the GFFA will respond fast, but they're already hurting from all the damage caused by... the Vong War, which they haven't near recovered from. Another Vong war so soon would be devastating. They *might* be able to pull it out but it'd be incredibly hard and a close thing, they could easily lose, or at the least be broken even in victory.

The Galactic Empire at its height. They win, being unified and pretty militarized with strong ships. The Vong can't take a fairly healthy unified galaxy, similar to the PT/CIS scenario.



United galaxy, Legacy era. Here, unlike Dark Nest they've had a chance to recover from the first Vong War, and unlike the others they also have a lot of knowledge of how Vong fight. Their ships are better than the GE or PT ones, they've got multiple big force orders. The damage caused by their own wars hurts some, but overall I expect them to do the best out of any of them.

Oh, can I have quotes that state the massive technology gap between the Clone war and ANH?

^I don't have any now, although there are:

1. Many sources detailing the Empire's largest military buildup in history, largest military force in history, etc.

2. The clear evidence that all the PT era weapons technology was replaced by the Empire...probably not just for cosmetics.

Originally posted by Master Han
By being disconnected from the Force?

What are the magnitude of Sadow's illusions?
Has he created actual starfleets with them?
Would this matter against ships that can hang with modern-SW era weaponry?
Isn't this Empire only consisting of a few hundred planets?

I don't really know all of that. But Sadow was creating illusionary armies across the entire galaxy. Also considering Aleema Keto was capable of creating illusionary Space Grazers, which are probably bigger than Star Destroyers, using the same technique I'd say Sadow could create illusionary ships since he's much more powerful than Keto was.

Not sure about the disconnection thing? How does it work?


Why did you even put them on the list if they stood so little of a chance in your eyes?

Lose at 1. And 1 and 2 should be switched.

Holy crap after some reading I never realized how weak the Ancient Sith Empire was. Their capital ships didn't even have shields...

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't really know all of that. But Sadow was creating illusionary armies across the entire galaxy. Also considering Aleema Keto was capable of creating illusionary Space Grazers, which are probably bigger than Star Destroyers, using the same technique I'd say Sadow could create illusionary ships since he's much more powerful than Keto was.

Not sure about the disconnection thing? How does it work?


Why did you even put them on the list if they stood so little of a chance in your eyes?

Starships back then were only 215 meters. And didn't even have shields.

Would that even matter with illusions?

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Lose at 1. And 1 and 2 should be switched.

Sorry for the triple post, but how? Vong ships at least had the firepower to one shot Acclamator-I star destroyers, which are 715 meters, have turbolasers rated at 200 gigatons Per shot, a Hyperdrive of I think 3.0 or higher, and a 70 trillion Gigawatt shield, meaning you'd need 60 Teratons to take it out. Compare that to the Derriphan class battleship, which was 215 meters, didn't even have shields, and only had 6 weapons called Autoblasters, 3 on each side, I sail to see how they'd win. They're also vastly outnumbers, I rechecked and they have around 120 planets under their empire, while the Vong could attack the whole Galaxy.

They also only built 100 of those things, despite having 120 worlds so their manufacturing sucks. They probably do better at ground battles, though thanks to Sith Sorcery. But ultimately it comes down to who has better ships and better navigation, which the Vong have in spades. Their illusions can still be defeated, it's just that more and more were created every time one was destroyed.

Loses at 4.

Yeah, 4. All those Jedi and all those robots. They go down.

Ehh, I'd like to think they can maybe reach number 6 since they were beating a New Republic, but I know that the New Republic wasn't near as powerful as the GE, and they probably aren't as powerful as the Old Republic tech.

I doubt the advancement in tech was so great in just a couple of decades to make a huge difference, especially in a civilization going back 10s of millennia. Massive numbers and thousands of Jedi are going to be insurmountable. If anything, I'd switch 4 and 5.

Only in one or two places at once, iirc, and using his meditation ship as a major booster.



A lot of force techniques don't work on them, and even force pushes are reduced in effect. It takes specific skills to learn to precog them properly (you need to sense the disconnect rather than a direct force presence like everyone else).



Hey, a proper gauntlet has to ramp things up





Originally posted by The Merchant
Ehh, I'd like to think they can maybe reach number 6 since they were beating a New Republic, but I know that the New Republic wasn't near as powerful as the GE, and they probably aren't as powerful as the Old Republic tech.

Also, the NR only had as massive trouble as it did due to Vong infiltrators making them ignore the invasion until the Vong had already gained a lot of momentum. Official gearing up took some time (which also made things look worse- the admirals knew ships were being built so focused on buying time rather than winning battles. Good strategy, bad for morale).

Once the Vong took Coruscant, though, they were pretty much out of gas, casualties had been too high. The NR era still had a lot of ships left after the rebellion and the galactic community was at it's furthest expansion (even probably further than Legacy, which was still reclaiming Vong-ravaged worlds).




There is only a little in terms of actual tech.

They just have a tendency to build bigger ships, and one can see the starfire designs improve some (a TIE interceptor would be the fastest thing around in the CW, yet it has more guns than the nearest counterpart. The Jedi elite were using a fighter not far from a basic TIE).

Mostly think of it as having worked the kinks out of designs due to the experience of the war.

Eh, Sadows illusions won't be enough to stop the Vong.

Quite agreed. His meditation sphere can make supernovae too, which is more useful, but there's not a lot of systems to burn here, and if a coralskipper gets in range of it he's dead.

Originally posted by Q99
Quite agreed. His meditation sphere can make supernovae too, which is more useful, but there's not a lot of systems to burn here, and if a coralskipper gets in range of it he's dead.

Yeah, I think they would lose at 4. The Old Sith Empire ships don't even have shields. So even if Sadow can use his chamber...

The Vong are also suicidal in combat, so illusions won't even deter them from fighting.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The Vong are also suicidal in combat, so illusions won't even deter them from fighting.

If you could get them to work- which I don't think is remotely possible- they'd be useful in drawing fire, and maybe confusing dovin basils, trying to get them to eat 'return fire' that isn't there.


Even then, not enough.

Also the Sith Empires ships don't have shields. And Nagas Empire lost to a much weaker republic in 1day(republic without the armies of Clone Troopers). So.....

I will mention on #4, the Vong are a fair bit stronger than just the CIS, and have more military power than the Republic for much of the war, but both of them combined, and with the Republic's ability to trade worlds for time to build more forces, means they don't have a chance overall.

The Vong have a stronger military, they just don't have *so* strong a military to absorb such a big foe before being badly worn down to defeatable levels. If it was pre-clone wars military buildup (like, say, during Phantom) they could manage.

They also don't have an entire galaxy of resources to draw upon. Over time they can't replace their losses as steadily as everyone else can. If they were a tad less speciesist and xenophobic they may be able to recruit from conquered worlds, but their culture and nature says "No."

And politically, things in the Republic seemed a helluva lot more stable than post-Empire, New Republic galaxy. A fractured galaxy with only 100 Jedi still gave the Vong a huge run for their money. A more united galaxy with 100x that amount of Jedi would be much worse.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
They also don't have an entire galaxy of resources to draw upon. Over time they can't replace their losses as steadily as everyone else can. If they were a tad less speciesist and xenophobic they may be able to recruit from conquered worlds, but their culture and nature says "No."

Yes. They did turn captured worlds into places to grow more coral skippers, and they did stuff like make the peace brigade and implant prisoners with growths to turn them into cannon fodder, but raw number of soldiers was a problem for them.



Indeed, but the NR also had a lot of military forces and military veterans, so once they responded they were able to respond very well with a lot of skill.

If the Vong struck during Phantom Menace, you've got no-one experienced with war and you don't even have the beginnings of an army/navy able to stop them. Sure, there's Jedi, but the Vong are going to be able to gain so much so fast, and the Jedi aren't experienced with normal war, let alone against hard-to-read Vong. I'm not sure if they could manage.


If the Vong struck around Ep2, you've got an army (talking just-Republic here, not CIS), but it doesn't have much experience. The military industry is still ramping up. Things'll be quite tough, though they'll eventually stabilize and turn around, which the Jedi will be a big aid in.


If the Vong struck around Ep3, you have a veteran army and an industry fully geared up for war and experienced Jedi with years of combat experience. Battles would be bloody from the start and though the Vong would still have initial success, between the skilled military and the Jedi things'll go better than the canon invasion, Coruscant won't fall, and such.

They'd be harder hit if the invasion was pre-RotS, but I have a hard time believing that this galaxy-sized industry of magical, wondiferous technology, and millions of worlds wouldn't be able to ramp production of everything military to its zenith in an incredibly short amount of time. It didn't take long in to the Clone Wars for the Republic to spit out countless capital ships, cruisers, frigates, fighters, and materiel, and that's with a huge chunk of their industry out of action and fighting against them. A unified galaxy under one banner could muster the resources and manpower to fight back in very little time, especially with the threat of total annihilation breathing down the backs of every inhabitant on millions of worlds. It'll be a big dent they suffer at first, but there'll be a huge rebound.


Veterans will be produced very, very quickly. And unlike pre-existing vets who would be conditioned to fight a certain way, here you have a generation of greens getting all their experience from fighting one enemy. There'll be no Charge of the Light Brigade blunders here.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
They'd be harder hit if the invasion was pre-RotS, but I have a hard time believing that this galaxy-sized industry of magical, wondiferous technology, and millions of worlds wouldn't be able to ramp production of everything military to its zenith in an incredibly short amount of time. It didn't take long in to the Clone Wars for the Republic to spit out countless capital ships, cruisers, frigates, fighters, and materiel, and that's with a huge chunk of their industry out of action and fighting against them.


Yes, but even at the start of the CW, both sides had an actual army and had army-production factories working and churning out complete forces. The initial clone wave was there to hold things off while more was made- and there was the matter that *neither* side was good at large-scale war at first.


If the Vong attacked during Phantom Menace, the factories to make droid armies and labs to make clones wouldn't be ready to start work off the bat, they'd have to be assembled first.

The early days of such a war would be very bloody, with only small local defense forces to face them. They'll likely eventually turn it around, but it's possible you'd see most of the galaxy fall and things turning into a much, much longer conflict as the Vong take early opposition piecemeal, and reach more of the production centers to destroy them, and result in a situation akin to the New Sith Wars where both sides production capabilities drop as the conflict drags on.

The Vong are never going to take the whole galaxy in later eras, but they could quite possibly inflict something akin to the Republic Dark Ages all over again.




There will be blunders like the arena at Geonosis that cost so many Jedi. It took awhile for the Clone Wars sides to relearn a lot of the aspects of war. And you're likely to see a lot of the early forces sent against them wiped out completely however well they fight.

Late-CW would adjust to the Vong fine, but 10 years prior they'd have to make those mistakes against a much larger more dangerous force than the droids, and there'll be a tough decision between 'sending in forces when they're ready' and 'holding back until you've got enough to do a lot.'


In NJO, even once everyone was up and responding, the strategists used small delaying actions in order to buy time to build up a more sizable force to put in the most important areas in order to maximize effect. It was bad for morale, but made strategic sense. Pre-CW admirals won't have a lot of experience and they may waste more forces not realizing how to fight with such a large scale in mind.