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Setting: New York City, Times Square.

This is Bay-verse Prime against 2005 Kong.

Prime doesn't get any of his weapons.

Who takes this?

Kong grabs him and bangs Prime around like Hulk did to Loki.

Somebody please post what they consider to be Kong's best strength feat/

Lifting his won weight all day every day. (Its like twice Megatron/Prime weight.) Climbing up empire State buildings/World Trade Centers, tossing trains around....? Way above Prime's tier.

Holding open the mouth of the V Rex. I'm sure the PSI of such a beast is incredibly heavy.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Lifting his won weight all day every day. (Its like twice Megatron/Prime weight.)

1. Prove that he weighs more.
2. Explain how this is a better strength feat than ripping apart reinforced armor.



Prime has used trees as weapons, and is also a superior fighter.

What is Prime's peak strength feat?

A Saltwater Crocodile's bite PSI is 7,700.

Just imagine a V Rex. Yeesh.

Originally posted by Master Han
1. Prove that he weighs more.
2. Explain how this is a better strength feat than ripping apart reinforced armor.



Prime has used trees as weapons, and is also a superior fighter.

Prove that he is not. If Megatron was as heavy as Kong he couldn't fly, presumably.
Did you know that there is a reason that planes are made of light materials like aluminium?
And his mass translated also to being a small tank, and a fuel tanker. Compare that weight to 2--50 tonnes and get back to me.

Well since you don't know the properties of the "armour" it could very well be and he didn't need tools to do it either..you know...because of STRENGTH.

A superior fighter never takes his eyes off of his opponent.
A BASIC fighter would know that. Prime didnt and paid the price.

Originally posted by Master Han
Prime has used trees as weapons, and is also a superior fighter.

How is that going to matter in H2H? Prove that he is better in H2H against such a target who is bigger than him.

Originally posted by Kazenji



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/Ash_ED/Scale1_zps14006e38.jpg

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
If Megatron was as heavy as Kong he couldn't fly, presumably.
Did you know that there is a reason that planes are made of light materials like aluminium?




This is one of the dumbest comments I've ever seen you make.

Originally posted by Master Han


This is one of the dumbest comments I've ever seen you make.

Likewise.

Dodge the point more.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Likewise.

Dodge the point more.

Sadako, you've consistently demonstrated a total lack of elementary scientific understanding, which you seemed to realize when you dropped that line of debate in the other thread. Do you really want to embarrass yourself more by claiming that Prime must be lighter than Kong, because otherwise he couldn't fly?

That w-wait, I'm not letting you off. Prove it. Perform the calculations.

inb4 magical future metal copout

It's not just a name; said "magical future metal" is demonstrably effectively immune to conventional, non-sabot weaponry that does not take advantage of weaknesses or vulnerabilities.

you have no idea what 'sabot' means or to which ammo its applied.

ive already posted evidence of decepticons being hurt by rifle rounds.

cry harder about it.

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/5fa646ea52ce7a80b257055106719c8b.gif


http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/87b8826f8c2faa3e4a129c788b143731.gif


http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/dealwithit.jpg



you will never get to disqualify physical strength from the topicdf

Originally posted by focus4chumps
ive already posted evidence of decepticons being hurt by riflr rounds.


And I already posted, and re-posted, my pointing out that your "evidence" merely demonstrates your lack of understanding of collision dynamics. Hint: recoiling has nothing to do with durability. Well, actually, if anything, harder materials would "recoil" more.

Muscle and bone is a hard surface to impact. Especially at impact speed.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you have no idea what 'sabot' means or to which ammo its applied.

ive already posted evidence of decepticons being hurt by rifle rounds.

cry harder about it.

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/5fa646ea52ce7a80b257055106719c8b.gif


http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/87b8826f8c2faa3e4a129c788b143731.gif


http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/dealwithit.jpg





you will never get to disqualify physical strength from the topicdf

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Muscle and bone is hard. Especially at impact speed.

Not compared to steel. And wtf does impact speed have to do with hardness, lol.

EDIT: it appears that both of you are content to ignore my earlier lecture on how recoiling has nothing to do with strength or durability.

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/sissy-1.gif

OK, fucachumps.

Question 1: a 50 kg car moving at 20 m/s collides in an ellastic collision with a 100 kg stationary truck in a closed system. Determine their final velocities and how much net momentum difference there is between the initial and final system.

Question 2: a 50 kg car made out of indestructible adamantium moving at 20 m/s collides in an ellastic collision with a 100 kg stationiary truck in a closed system. Determine their final velocities, and how much net momentum difference there is between the initial and final system.

Let's see if you get my point here.

keep tapdaning around the fact that you were proven wrong.

non-magical sabot rounds injuring TF

as if you know what the **** you're talking about when you mention sabot as it only applies to artillery, you ignorant clownshoe. but keep saying 'sabot' because it sounds cool.

It's OK, fucachumps, you can take some more time if you need. Maybe you can even ask Sadako over there for some help.

I love how you're so proud about your knowledge of military jargon, but never bothered to learn middle school physics, lol.

"kong's ability to absorb impact force has nothing to do with physical strength. also only transformers' weak points are off limits in scrutinizing." clown.

multiple BMG 50 rounds:
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/kingme.gif

single ACR Round:
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/sissy-1.gif

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/dealwithit.jpg




you will never get to disqualify physical strength from the topicdf

Still don't understand physics 101, eh? Your point is 100% irrelevant, lol.

BTW, these are the sabot rounds that took off scorponok's tail:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/zerleger/fig01-1.jpg

It survived those; damaged, but intact.

Tell me Kong could.

How much of those are the actual 'slug' cause the damage around Scorponok's tail didnt look like the arse end of those in size, IIRC.

What does all of that have to do with a H2H beat em up? I've been convinced of one thing from the other thread, and that is in a straight H2H match up, Kong is likely the superior of the two. I simply can't see or believe that he would have difficulty in tearing a truck the size of Prime apart in mere seconds. I could be wrong, but I think Kong would tear Prime apart in this one. If Prime had all of his weapons then I could see him taking this, but it isn't, and he shouldn't be able to.

who needs kong when a human can just shove a grenade in his eye.

lets hear it for invincible future metal!

i smell 'prime vs mcclane'

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/starqueen.gif

Originally posted by Master Han
BTW, these are the sabot rounds that took off scorponok's tail:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/zerleger/fig01-1.jpg

It survived those; .

Tell me Kong could.

But Scorponok ummmmm wasn't actually intact.

That'd be like saying Kong totally survived the movie alive.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But Scorponok ummmmm wasn't actually intact.

That'd be like saying Kong totally survived the movie alive.

Fixed: I corrected his post in my post.

and what case does this support?

that scorpinok did NOT die by having his tail blown off?

given his evidence, scorpinok would have been killed instantly if they were impacting the body or head.

unless anyone has evidence of TF's surviving DIRECT body hits from these super cool 105 mm sabots? .

if not then its yet more irrelevant glittery posturing via military-tech name-dropping.

There is none. IIRC

Maddox was shooting Blackout with far less and killed him, firing whilst sliding under him. As a couple of rockets happened to shoot him too. IMo_Jx35SZw

LOL, I say to thee.

Originally posted by the ninjak
What is Prime's peak strength feat?

Casually snapping trees like they were twigs by simply walking through them. Casually picking up trees like they were flowers. Kong in comparison needed to smash through a tree to break them.

Prime and Megatron also consistently smash THROUGH buildings and bridges. Kong (IIRC) smashes the side of buildings but doesn't go through them.

Prime and transformers also have displayed far better durability feats.

Also, although Kong is bigger, there's no evidence to suggest that he's actually heavier than Prime.

grenade launcher to the balls?

wait ow

Originally posted by FrothByte
Casually snapping trees like they were twigs by simply walking through them.

Casually picking up trees like they were flowers. Kong in comparison needed to smash through a tree to break them.

Prime and Megatron also consistently smash THROUGH buildings and bridges. Kong (IIRC) smashes the side of buildings but doesn't go through them.

Prime and transformers also have displayed far better durability feats.

Also, although Kong is bigger, there's no evidence to suggest that he's actually heavier than Prime.

your implication that kong could not accomplish these things is baseless and thus easily dismissed.

cherry-picking strength feats unique only to prime's circumstanes while ignoring the same for kong is a completely fallaious rule to impose, as well as juvenile

Originally posted by FrothByte


Also, although Kong is bigger, there's no evidence to suggest that he's actually heavier than Prime.

Your 1st part is subjective opinion.

2nd: Yes there is. Kong is 20-50 tonnes
Prime is 15-17 (as is a Peterbilt truck).

('No mass shift' is the rule for the Tfs in these movies, except for the Allspark, of course)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Your 1st part is subjective opinion.

2nd: Yes there is. Kong is 20-50 tonnes
Prime is 15-17 (as is a Peterbilt truck).

('No mass shift' is the rule for the Tfs in these movies, except for the Allspark, of course)

20-50 tonnes is a very wide guestimate. Where did you get these figures from? Why such a huge spanning range? If you were so sure of his weight, why not be more specific about it? Otherwise this is just guessing.

Also, assuming that Prime is as heavy as a normal semi truck would be to assume that Prime is made of the same materials as a normal semi truck. That would be false, because a semi crashing into a tree or through buildings would be seriously damaged. Prime crashed into both without a scratch, suggesting that he's made of something more durable than what a semi is usually made of. Meaning that his weight can also be quite different.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
your implication that kong could not accomplish these things is baseless and thus easily dismissed.

cherry-picking strength feats unique only to prime's circumstanes while ignoring the same for kong is a completely fallaious rule to impose, as well as juvenile

Stating that Kong can accomplish something that has not been backed by feats is a no limits fallacy.


Besides if you're using that logic, then we can use the same logic and say: Why do you think Prime can't do the same feats as Kong can? What makes you think Prime can't rip a T-rex's jaws apart?

cherry-picking strength feats unique only to Kong's circumstanes while ignoring the same for Prime is a completely fallaious rule to impose, as well as juvenile

you are committing the same fallacy by denying t-rex evidence and assuming that prime could do the same.

so please stop pretending like you have the authority to conflate and disqualify irrefutable feats of strength AND quote fallacies to me, kay?

Originally posted by focus4chumps

unless anyone has evidence of TF's surviving DIRECT body hits from these super cool 105 mm sabots? .

if not then its yet more irrelevant glittery posturing via military-tech name-dropping.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
There is none. IIRC

Maddox was shooting Blackout with far less and killed him, firing whilst sliding under him. As a couple of rockets happened to shoot him too. IMo_Jx35SZw

LOL, I say to thee.

I don't think that killed him (this was in a debate, before...apparently, he shows up in another scene, later...meaning they didn't kill him in that particular scene. I am not going to re-watch the movie just to find out). Also, yes, that's his weak-spot...

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you are committing the same fallacy by denying t-rex evidence and assuming that prime could do the same.

so please stop pretending like you have the authority to conflate and disqualify irrefutable feats of strength AND quote fallacies to me, kay?

I'm just repeating your words to you so you realize how silly they sound.


Ok let's agree on this: We can't use scenarios unique only for one combatant to gauge how strong they are in relation to another. Therefore, we can't use the T-rex's as a gauge because Prime never fought T-rex's, and we also can't use the Decepticons because Kong never fought Decepticons. So we use scenarios wherein both of them have feats. Which are:

1. Smashing trees. Prime and other transformers snap trees by walking through them. Kong had to smash into a tree with force in order to break it.

2. Smashing through buildings. Prime smashes through quite a lot of buildings. Smashes THROUGH. Kong on the other hand just smashes the side and collapses the side.

Originally posted by FrothByte

1. Smashing trees. Prime and other transformers snap trees by walking through them. Kong had to smash into a tree with force in order to break it.

2. Smashing through buildings. Prime smashes through quite a lot of buildings. Smashes THROUGH. Kong on the other hand just smashes the side and collapses the side.

if you could present evidence of these feats as greater than kong (speed/velocity relevant), it could be very compelling.

I'd like you all to refcall megatron using a melee weapon to tear through a concrete/brick/sandstone (whichever) chruch in Movie One. Megatron and Optimus are the closest in terms of power. I have never seen Kong rip through concrete. However I don't doubt he could smash it in a few hits or jumps.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
I'd like you all to refcall megatron using a melee weapon to tear through a concrete/brick/sandstone (whichever) chruch in Movie One. Megatron and Optimus are the closest in terms of power. I have never seen Kong rip through concrete. However I don't doubt he could smash it in a few hits or jumps.

He picks up (sort of) and knocks over a very large cement-straw-mud hut. Sure, it took a lot of effort but that thing probably weighed quite a bit.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
if you could present evidence of these feats as greater than kong (speed/velocity relevant), it could be very compelling.

Here's Kong's fight with the T-Rex's

ZYZsJYZVt5g

In the beginning you see Kong running through the trees without breaking them, then jumping and hanging on a branch without breaking it (suggesting that he's not quite as heavy as you may think). Then later on he shoulders into a tree that uproots the tree and cracks it but doesn't completely snap it in two.

Now compare that with Prime's fight in the forest:

2nsLx95pvyE

And you see trees cleanly snapping and bursting into pieces as the transformers walk, run, and tumble through the trees. In the beginning you also see Prime do an acrobatic sommersault which shows greater agility than anything Kong has shown so far.

really?


http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/kongtree2.gif

kong swinging from a tree with a trunk almost twice his width. (notice the trees he knocks out of his way on the cliff as if they were dust bunnies.

verses:

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/treefraud.gif

Originally posted by focus4chumps
really?


http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/kongtree2.gif

kong swinging from a tree with a trunk almost twice his width. (notice the trees he knocks out of his way on the cliff as if they were dust bunnies.

verses:

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/treefraud.gif

Check the tree that Prime uses as a club. Not all the trees in Prime's fight were thin. The part of the branch that Kong held on to looked about as thick as the thin one's in Prime's fight... and it still didn't snap.

nope. it was a bit wider but not even half the width of prime's torso.

also no evidence of him "ripping it out of the ground". whether the tree was dead on the ground or if they rolled over it, there was no tree plucking. it was laying flat when he grabbed it.

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/littledeadtreepsd.gif

Why is the "prove Kong is heavier" going on in this thread when Prime being heavier was debunked in the other thread?

-Kong was estimated between 20 and 60 tons. I'd say the heavier considering his insanely stupid muscle and bone density, but averages 40 tons in those estimated.

-The type of truck(lorry) Prime is a Peterbilt 379, those weight between 15 and 18 tons.

Another of Kong's strength feats if it hasn't been mentioned, picking up a huge boulder single-handed and smashing a T-Rex with it.

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1064/96a7.png

Well thats that then.

"Kong smasssssssssssssssssssh."


Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't think that killed him (this was in a debate, before...apparently, he shows up in another scene, later...meaning they didn't kill him in that particular scene. I am not going to re-watch the movie just to find out). Also, yes, that's his weak-spot...

No theres more than one of his model.
Just like Starscream, Thundercracker and Skywarp in G1.

So.. You mean to say that you didn't know that there were multiple Deceps of that design* yet you could determine that that was it's weakspot, with any authority..? An odd conclusion to draw randomly (especially as the torso is the most solid part of it).
Also Maddox had no way of knowing that either...

Blackout got juked fair and square. TFs just aren't as tough as some are making out.




* A basic thing with Baydeceps, there were even little Megatrons running around in ROTF, multiple Constructicon types...thats part of the problem with the approach they took in not making each TF distinct or giving them individual character. (Probably to save money/effort in imagination in the design process, as well as cutting down on the licensing paid out to the companies that make the vehicles they changed into. And given how original designs were forsaken in order to accomodate the sponsoring GMC and military vehicles in current operation and sale that would make sense from their perspective...but it sucks from the fan perspective as the deceps ended up as physically/visually indistinct as their characterisation to the point where its "Some recognisable Autobots vs Generic and indistinct grey metal monsters that go "rarrrrrr" at people a lot"

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't think that killed him (this was in a debate, before...apparently, he shows up in another scene, later...meaning they didn't kill him in that particular scene. I am not going to re-watch the movie just to find out). Also, yes, that's his weak-spot...

No theres more than one of his model.
Just like Starscream, Thundercracker and Skywarp in G1.

So.. You mean to say that you didn't know that there were multiple Deceps of that design* yet you could determine that that was it's weakspot, with any authority..? An odd conclusion to draw randomly (especially as the torso is the most solid part of it).
Also Maddox had no way of knowing that either...

Blackout got juked fair and square. TFs just aren't as tough as some are making out.




* A basic thing with Baydeceps, there were even little Megatrons running around in ROTF, multiple Constructicon types...thats part of the problem with the approach they took in not making each TF distinct or giving them individual character. (Probably to save FX money/effort in imagination in the design process, and having different vehicles they changed into, for advertising. And given how original designs were forsaken in order to accomodate the sponsoring GMC and military vehicles in current operation and sale that would make sense from their perspective...but it sucks from the fan perspective as the deceps ended up as physically/visually indistinct as their characterisation to the point where its "Some recognisable Autobots vs Generic and indistinct grey metal monsters that go "rarrrrrr" at people a lot"

Blackout was definitely kiiled and was not seen alive at the end. We do see him dumped into the abyss though, after which he made no further appearances. So I don't how you came to that conclusion. (or your source did)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
No theres more than one of his model.
Just like Starscream, Thundercracker and Skywarp in G1.

I have not read anything like this anywhere at any place. I am not saying you're wrong: you very well could be right. It is just brand new to me that there were multiple Blackouts running around in T1.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
So.. You mean to say that you didn't know that there were multiple Deceps of that design* yet you could determine that that was it's weakspot, with any authority..?
An odd conclusion to draw randomly (especially as the torso is the most solid part of it).


lol

Tone down the vitriol. It was stated onscreen that that was his weakspot right before they shot up his nuts.


Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Also Maddox had no way of knowing that either...

I tend to just go with statements made onscreen that also seem to be true. Such as, "punch him in his right temple, it will knock him out." And then he gets punched in the right temple and gets knocked out. Deviating from a direct interpretation, when it is seen to be true onscreen, is usually dangerous for vs. discussions.


The take-away is that I agree humans can damage Transformers with certain weapons and on certain places (eyes, under the nutz for at least the Blackout model, large metal objects through their spark).

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Blackout got juked fair and square. TFs just aren't as tough as some are making out.

I agree, 1000%. They are not as tough as some have made them out to be. However, I do think they are tougher, overall, than anything we as humans (even if remotely controlled by a real human in a suit) could create, right now.




Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
* A basic thing with Baydeceps, there were even little Megatrons running around in ROTF, multiple Constructicon types...thats part of the problem with the approach they took in not making each TF distinct or giving them individual character. (Probably to save money/effort in imagination in the design process, as well as cutting down on the licensing paid out to the companies that make the vehicles they changed into. And given how original designs were forsaken in order to accomodate the sponsoring GMC and military vehicles in current operation and sale that would make sense from their perspective...but it sucks from the fan perspective as the deceps ended up as physically/visually indistinct as their characterisation to the point where its "Some recognisable Autobots vs Generic and indistinct grey metal monsters that go "rarrrrrr" at people a lot"

Oh, okay. I see what you mean. However, I don't remember that being true of Blackout. But I DO remember "baby Megatrons" running round in T2.

If we are being honest, you know what I think? I think that was a budget thing. Instead of creating new and unique CGI models, they just reused and slightly tweaked existing ones. The budget was blown on the pyrotechnics by the time they got to post-production animation. lulz

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Blackout was definitely kiiled and was not seen alive at the end. We do see him dumped into the abyss though, after which he made no further appearances. So I don't how you came to that conclusion. (or your source did)

It was an argument had right here on KMC. I contended that the humans killed Blackout and someone else contended that they did not because Blackout was seen in another scene, same film, in the city. Like I said, I just can't be arsed to re-watch the film to be sure.


Edit - I believe the argument was regarding the utility of humans. The argument the other person was making was that humans could do very little to help the Autobots. I stated that Blackout was killed by humans (a healthy Blackout, to be exact). He disagreed. If I can find the original argument, I would be more than happy to revive that thread and post a nya nya...because I'm immature and hate being wrong.

Edit 2 - I checked the Wiki. It says he was killed and that the F-22's did it. That means I was wrong and right. Wrong that humans on foot killed him but right that he died and was killed by humans. meh.


Edit 3 - It looks like this is what he was talking about:

"Revenge of the Fallen film never explicitly establishes Grindor as a separate character from Blackout. Screenwriter Roberto Orci, when asked, was not sure whether they were supposed to be the same character or not. Despite Orci's statement, Hasbro confirmed that it is Grindor featured in the film instead of Blackout."

"Dreamworks stated there isn't a character in the Revenge of the Fallen film named "Grindor" because it indeed is Blackout."

Originally posted by dadudemon
I have not read anything like this anywhere at any place. I am not saying you're wrong: you very well could be right. It is just brand new to me that there were multiple Blackouts running around in T1.


Fair play. Look up Blackout/Grindor for current Bay clones, and the seekers for more info.



THATS not vitriol.

Can you post that? (I have zero recollection of such a scene. )




As said above I have zero recollection of that.


Then why did the troops all firing up at him in the airbae attack have any success? Stupidity.




I dont share that view. A simple car kiiled one in ROTF.
Human made guns waste them too.




Aye.



Probably both right there.



Oh ok.



Thats the trouble with Wiki over shown on screen stuff.
Sure the F22s missle'd him, but Maddox got the apparent killing blow in.



Well since they're wrong. Someone didnt get a memo, figuratively speaking..they look subtly different.

Again TF wiki it if you have too.....

Originally posted by focus4chumps


also no evidence of him "ripping it out of the ground". whether the tree was dead on the ground or if they rolled over it, there was no tree plucking. it was laying flat when he grabbed it.

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/littledeadtreepsd.gif

Are you kidding? You can clearly see the root of the tree being ripped out of the ground.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Are you kidding? You can clearly see the root of the tree being ripped out of the ground.

oh so that must be the north california dead-broken tree. its really alive and rooted, they actually grow sideways, produce no branches, and only appear broken.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Can you post that? (I have zero recollection of such a scene. )


Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
IMo_Jx35SZw

LOL, I say to thee.


"Aim low...armor's weak under the chest..."

Which Bay, in his majestic maturity, translated to, "Aim really low...at his nuts."

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Then why did the troops all firing up at him in the airbae attack have any success? Stupidity.

1. CIS.
2. It is possible that the script had changed many times by the time we saw it onscreen. The original intention may have been to make the Transformers mostly immune to human weapons. But, to keep it from being too-bot-sided in the plot, they added in a scene where some humans lay-down some damage so the Americans in the audience would think, "America! **** yeah!" It worked...if that's really what went down.
3. They simply did not know to fire their grenade launchers at Blackout's nuts at the time. While this is the most simple and logical answer, #2 is probaly the correct guess.




Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I dont share that view. A simple car kiiled one in ROTF.
Human made guns waste them too.

I don't remember that happening. I know it has been argued discusssed and debated many times, by this point. I tried to avoid those conversations in the other thread. Do you have a link to that scene? If so, yes, that would slightly alter my opinion on their durability.


Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Thats the trouble with Wiki over shown on screen stuff.
Sure the F22s missle'd him, but Maddox got the apparent killing blow in.

Well since they're wrong. Someone didnt get a memo, figuratively speaking..they look subtly different.

Again TF wiki it if you have too.....

On that first part, that seems to support my idea of why humans went from being completely ineffective against the Transformers to being able to kill them, on foot, just later in the film: pandering to American Patriotism.

Apparently, the Blackout vs. Grindor debate has been waged. They talked about a marking/tattoo on Blackout that appears again in the second film which some take to mean that Blackout really did make a return.




However, the debate should still be over. Megatron's and Blackout's sparks were extinguished and they were dropped in the ocean. That's a dead robot. If that really was Blackout, he was resurrected with that piece of the Allspark which means that Blackout was still killed and my original point about humans posessing the ability to kill Transformers still stands.

just goes to show you, there is no reasoning with the lipstick posse.

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/butthurtdweller.jpg

Originally posted by Robtard
Why is the "prove Kong is heavier" going on in this thread when Prime being heavier was debunked in the other thread?

-Kong was estimated between 20 and 60 tons. I'd say the heavier considering his insanely stupid muscle and bone density, but averages 40 tons in those estimated.

-The type of truck(lorry) Prime is a Peterbilt 379, those weight between 15 and 18 tons.

Another of Kong's strength feats if it hasn't been mentioned, picking up a huge boulder single-handed and smashing a T-Rex with it.

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1064/96a7.png

Close the thread.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Kong grabs him and bangs Prime around like Hulk did to Loki.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Close the thread.

there's way to much aggressively enforced evidence-free blind speculation to allow that to happen

Originally posted by dadudemon






I don't remember that happening. I know it has been argued discusssed and debated many times, by this point. I tried to avoid those conversations in the other thread. Do you have a link to that scene? If so, yes, that would slightly alter my opinion on their durability.




On that first part, that seems to support my idea of why humans went from being completely ineffective against the Transformers to being able to kill them, on foot, just later in the film: pandering to American Patriotism.

Apparently, the Blackout vs. Grindor debate has been waged. They talked about a marking/tattoo on Blackout that appears again in the second film which some take to mean that Blackout really did make a return.


Not according to all promotion, merch and publishing.
Again it litreally came down to someone not getting a memo.



The debate IS over. Blackout and Grindor are different characters.

Grindor/Blackout....two different bots.
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Grindor_(ROTF) please note the "dont confuse him with this guy" bit.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not according to all promotion, merch and publishing.
Again it litreally came down to someone not getting a memo.



The debate IS over. Blackout and Grindor are different characters.

Grindor/Blackout....two different bots.
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Grindor_(ROTF) please note the "dont confuse him with this guy" bit.

Debate does not seem to be over, actually:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/ Talk:Blackout_(Movie)#Dreamworks_confirm_Blackout_
in_ROTF

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Grindor_(ROTF)


I see polarized arguments over it, to this day.


Edit - Also, even the toys do not agree as some had Blackout and some Grindor. To be clear, it was the toy releases that coincided with the RotF release, not the first film.

Doesn't matter about the 1st film thing.
That was Blackout. Before he was killed.
The other appearance was Grindor.

Known in the movie. Known in the comics. Known apparently in the toy merch, known in the game....

We can't be responsible for klutzes either believing what the choose to believe, regardless of fact or just being indulgent in sematics..

Some people to this day will argue that Frenzy was Red and Rumble was blue.... The original Jap toys were called Rumble(red) and Frenzy (Blue), the western distribution, Comics, Books, merch across the board and all the Canon set by the guys who invented the canon all had Rumble as the Red one, but Sunbow f***ed up and mixed them up for the cartoon.

Rumble is the Red one, (even the current masterpiece releases are named correctly but to those who only bothered with the cartoon (couldn't or didn't read, or didnt get into it enough whatever) will always try to debate fact.

And it is rightly lol'd upon.

In short: Im not fussed about what fools like that think.

Doesn't matter about the 1st film thing.
That was Blackout. Before he was killed.
The other appearance was Grindor.

Known in the movie. Known in the comics. Known apparently in some toy merch*, known in the games....

*The ones that got the memo in time to going to production.

We can't be responsible for klutzes either believing what they choose to believe, regardless of fact or just being indulgent in semantics..

Some people to this day will argue that Frenzy was Red and Rumble was blue.... The original Jap toys were called Rumble(red) and Frenzy (Blue), the western distribution, Comics, Books, merch across the board and all the Canon set by the guys who invented the canon all had Rumble as the Red one, but Sunbow f***ed up and mixed them up for the cartoon.

Rumble is the Red one, even the current masterpiece releases are named correctly but those who only bothered with the cartoon couldn't or didn't read, (or didn't get into it enough whatever) will always try to debate fact.

And it is rightly lol'd upon.

In short: Im not fussed about what fools like that think.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Debate does not seem to be over, actually:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/ Talk:Blackout_(Movie)#Dreamworks_confirm_Blackout_
in_ROTF

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Grindor_(ROTF)


I see polarized arguments over it, to this day.


Edit - Also, even the toys do not agree as some had Blackout and some Grindor. To be clear, it was the toy releases that coincided with the RotF release, not the first film.

so basically you found someone else on the internet arguing the same falsehood, and are citing it as evidence.

also for both your links: "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page."

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Doesn't matter about the 1st film thing.
That was Blackout. Before he was killed.
The other appearance was Grindor.

Known in the movie. Known in the comics. Known apparently in some toy merch*, known in the games....

*The ones that got the memo in time to going to production.

Ahhh. So that's why some had him labeled as Grindor and some as Blackout.

It speaks volumes of how disjointed the whole process was. Generally, franchises do a much better job of lining up the product merch to the films/series. That's just a symptom of other issues with the production.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
so basically you found someone else on the internet arguing the same falsehood, and are citing it as evidence.

My position: it is not clear and I don't know what the truth is.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
also for both your links: "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page."

You should learn how to use urls better.

did i click them with the wrong mouse?
Originally posted by dadudemon
My position: it is not clear and I don't know what the truth is.

it is crystal clear. citing some random misinformed internet retard does not prove that there is an open debate. it just proves that you are acting like an ignorant google-tourist.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
did i click them with the wrong mouse?

Hint: you usually cannot click wikimedia links to view them.


Originally posted by focus4chumps
it is crystal clear. citing some random misinformed internet retard does not prove that there is an open debate. it just proves that you are acting like an ignorant google-tourist.

I wish I could view the world through your bias glasses. It would make it so much easier to vote, think, and act.

I was cursed with logic and reason.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Hint: you usually cannot click wikimedia links to view them.





*cough*

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Grindor_(ROTF)

You just have to know how to repair the fail.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Hint: you usually cannot click wikimedia links to view them.


Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
*cough*

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Grindor_(ROTF)

oh dear. wrong again. how embarrassing.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Debate does not seem to be over, actually:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Blackout_(Movie) #Dreamworks_confirm_Blackout_in_ROTF

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Grindor_(ROTF)


I see polarized arguments over it, to this day.


Edit - Also, even the toys do not agree as some had Blackout and some Grindor. To be clear, it was the toy releases that coincided with the RotF release, not the first film.



*Fixed to demonstrate*

now you're just being cruel :'(

Didn't meeeeeeeean to be.... innocent

More 'Grindor was Grindor not Blackout' evidence listed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grindor

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/File:Rotf-grindor-film-forest-2.png

wL5kQB6gKgU

Free roam gameplay with Grindor, not Blackout.

Pretty conclusive: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Grindor_(ROTF)

"Ordered by The Fallen to capture Sam Witwicky for the information that the AllSpark had imprinted in his mind, Megatron led Starscream and Grindor to Earth, waiting for the human boy to be flushed out by one of their agents. Grindor captured the humans' escape vehicle and brought it to an abandoned industrial facility where Starscream and Megatron were waiting. While Grindor waited outside, Megatron and Scalpel interrogated the boy, preparing to extract the information by removing his brain, a process that was interrupted by the arrival of Optimus Prime and Bumblebee. Optimus briefly fought off Megatron and Starscream before escaping with Sam into the woods.


I predict a checkmate in 4 mo-*stab*.
Megatron followed, but soon called for his soldiers to assist. Grindor played little part in the opening attack, grabbing the Autobot and sawing into his face before being knocked away, but eventually gathered on the outnumbered and outgunned but defiant Optimus Prime. The Autobot leader immediately unsheathed both battle blades and attacked the Decepticons, cutting off Grindor's right arm, slashing into his chest, sending some of Starscream's artillery his way and throwing his right battle blade into the Decepticon's torso. Badly hurt, Grindor required some downtime before he could rejoin the battle, during which Optimus stabbed Megatron and knocked off Starscream's arm.



Grindor was just pulling out the deenergized blade Prime had swung into him when the Autobot unleashed his Energon Hooks and jabbed it into his optic, using the leverage to pull himself onto the Decepticon. Once on top, Prime then struck another hook into Grindor, then proceeded to tear his head apart, killing Grindor. As he pushed the lifeless hulk to the ground, Optimus contemptuously commented on the material Grindor was made of."


Ergo: Theres no real debate.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
*cough*

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Grindor_(ROTF)

You just have to know how to repair the fail.


How dare you repair the links to work!!!

Originally posted by focus4chumps
oh dear. wrong again. how embarrassing.

In no way does that mean I was "wrong." What you were supposed to take away from that was, "I should probably copy and paste the whole thing instead of clicking on it like I'm an 80 year old lady."

Edit - Because of posters like you, I don't trust the links on KMC or most places. I usually copy and paste them into a new tab. You should try that. Could prevent you from opening NSFW links or even prevent pranks like Rick Rolls.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ergo: Theres no real debate.

That's a game, not an official statement from Dreamworks.

I keep seeing an official statement, touted as being from Dreamworks, that Grindor is Blackout. It has yet to be originally sourced, though.

I know, Im a brute, aren't I....


Thusly it can be taken as rumour in the vast face of all the other evidence.

Prime, easily. Robot versus fleshy gorilla. Not a hard choice to make.