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who wins

1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All out

Team 2 rather easily.

If by rather easily you mean they will lose a clear majority... I agree. I wanna be amused though... tell me... why would it be so easy?

Zonakin has the ability to beat everyone even his teammates, though only barely.

The only way the Jedi win is if Mace's Vapaad can make his raw power grow to Anakin's level.

Although that won't help if he goes into Mortis Uber Zone mode and just TK's Yoda and Mace together.

Originally posted by XRKun
Zonakin has the ability to beat everyone even his teammates, though only barely.

By has the ability to beat everyone you mean has the ability to be the worst one in the thread then sure.

^^^ exactly

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The only way the Jedi win is if Mace's Vapaad can make his raw power grow to Anakin's level.

Although that won't help if he goes into Mortis Uber Zone mode and just TK's Yoda and Mace together.

Please show me ANYTIME.. JUST ONCE... That Anakin used this alleged TK AWESOMENESS you speak of to beat anybody on the level of Mace or Yoda... if you can't.. then you need to be quiet about this bullshit you speak. Anakin has never TK'd anybody on the level of these two.. EVER. Shit... Kenobi matched his TK.. and hat was DS Anakin using his full rage.. yet I'm supposed to believe he can just TK Yoda and Mace.. talk about a big pile of dung. Cite these combat feats you reference.

He TK'd the Son and the Daughter, which were celestial beings far above the abilties of Yoda, Sidious, or Mace.

ohhh jesus... yet Kenobi could stalemate him in TK? Odd eh... So tell me... what are the feats of the Son and Daughter please

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Team 2 rather easily.

If this is the guy who cowed the Son and Daughter, Team 2 curbstomps. Hell, Anakin probably solos.

Odd... I'm still waiting on the impressive feats of the Son and Daughter please. I had no idea Zone Anakin was overrrated so much. It's pretty silly indeed.

Yeah, you mean the son who used lightning to cause mountains to cave in? The son who pwned Anakin (not zoned), Obi Wan, and Ahsoka, simultaneously in four seconds? The Son who overwhelmed the Father's defenses with force lightning (note: prime father is the most powerful force user ever)? And the daughter fought on-par with the son.

Edit: Oh, and the Son and Daughter combined managed to drive off abeloth. You know, the being that is supposedly 12 times as strong as luke in the force...

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
ohhh jesus... yet Kenobi could stalemate him in TK? Odd eh... So tell me... what are the feats of the Son and Daughter please I don't even think this is worth a response.

On top of that, was the Anakin Obi-Wan was fighting Zonakin? No? Didn't think so.

Originally posted by NTJack0
I don't even think this is worth a response.

On top of that, was the Anakin Obi-Wan was fighting Zonakin? No? Didn't think so.

Him being not being in the zone does not affect his Force capabilities which is what is originally being questioned here.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, you mean the son who used lightning to cause mountains to cave in?

When did this happen?

Goddamn, can't find it. I'm know it's referenced at some point in apocalypse tho.

Ahsoka died by being tapped on the forehead.

lol. for some reason I laughed when you posted that.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please show me ANYTIME.. JUST ONCE... That Anakin used this alleged TK AWESOMENESS you speak of to beat anybody on the level of Mace or Yoda...

Actually they were more powerful than Mace and Yoda:

9eEssepWEps


Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
if you can't.. then you need to be quiet about this bullshit you speak.

I think you need to stop posting on these boards for good, because you clearly know nothing about the SW Eu.

Originally posted by Based
Him being not being in the zone does not affect his Force capabilities which is what is originally being questioned here.

His Force abilities are EXACTLY what his being in the Zone effects.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If this is the guy who cowed the Son and Daughter, Team 2 curbstomps. Hell, Anakin probably solos.

If we go by the whole n-canon story, Anakin definitely solos considering he would have annihilated Sidious and Yoda combined.


If this is ROTS Zone Anakin however its way closer.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Actually they were more powerful than Mace and Yoda:

9eEssepWEps




I think you need to stop posting on these boards for good, because you clearly know nothing about the SW Eu.



His Force abilities are EXACTLY what his being in the Zone effects.

Building up the BIG BAD Son and daughter to be the biggest villans the SW Universe hs ever seen is common place in any genre. Build em up.. to have the hero save the day. Nothing new here. Now, what I'm waiting for is.. if Anakin's TK is so otherworldly... than why was his TK stalemated by Kenobi? Please explain this to me.

By the way... For somebody that says Idiotic things and lacks basic logic to tell me I say dumb stuff is pretty hilarious. Nobody says dumber stuff than you DP, and everybody on here knows it.

Because Anakin isn't normally that powerful. Thats why we specify that its Zonakin instead of his usual self. Plus, did you watch the video? Anakin was drawing off of the power of Mortis when he did that, and Mortis is the Force.

Also I believe the Ones are stated to be the most powerful Force users in the entire mythos, so yeah, they're kind of a big deal.

Right... but he became even more powerful in his ROTS version than in the clone wars... he even says.. how much his powers have increased when he fought dooku again. So clearly via canon.. he's even more power in ROTS. Thus, it doesn't make logical sense he could do that in the clone wars... then tap into the DS even more and be even more powerful by his own admission and then get stalemated by kenobi.

Futher, I never said he could call upon Mortis is this thread at all.. that isn't something he can do all the time whenever he wants. Thus, it's inadmissable in a vs. thread unless he's been shown to do that a least a few times. Until then it's considered a one off and would need to be specified as him being able to do that in a thread title. This was never said in this thread thus it has no relevance.

The Anchorites are literally cosmic. IF this is the same Anakin who cows them, he's gonna stomp Yoda and Mace and then snag Palpatine as the Emperor makes for the hills.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Building up the BIG BAD Son and daughter to be the biggest villans the SW Universe hs ever seen is common place in any genre. Build em up.. to have the hero save the day. Nothing new here. Now, what I'm waiting for is.. if Anakin's TK is so otherworldly... than why was his TK stalemated by Kenobi? Please explain this to me.

By the way... For somebody that says Idiotic things and lacks basic logic to tell me I say dumb stuff is pretty hilarious. Nobody says dumber stuff than you DP, and everybody on here knows it.

You seem to lack the knowledge to properly argue about a thread yourself created.


Anakin stalemated Kenobi, not Zonakin. You clearly know nothing about the Son, the Father and the Daughter. Leeland Chee confirmed that the Father is the most powerful character to ever be created, being the embodiment of the Force itself. His Son is the embodiment of the dark side, his Daughter the embodiment of the light side. Together, they are considered the most powerful Force-users, as well as the Mother (Abeloth), who is stated to be a dozen times more powerful than Luke Skywalker in his prime. Zonakin casually owned the Son and the Daughter, and the Father originally intended Anakin to be his replacement when he died, strongly suggesting Zonakin at least = the Father.

Become more knowledgeable in the Star Wars EU, or GTFO.


It's fine to not know stuff if you want to learn, but you, without knowing shit, are talking like you know shit. Do yourself a favor and stop making a fool out of yourself.


Now, I agree with Mizukage Yoda. If this is ROTS Zonakin, team 2 wins but doesn't own. If it's Mortis episodes TCW Zonakin, adding Sids just makes this a curbstomp.

I'm not sure we should distinguish Zownakin from Mortakin. Based on Stover's fluffy descriptions, they seem comparable.

Except Zonakin doesn't have the power of Mortis to draw from.

And neither do Yoda, Mace, or Sidious in this case. Any advantage would be even keel.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not sure we should distinguish Zownakin from Mortakin. Based on Stover's fluffy descriptions, they seem comparable.

Which fluffly decriptions make them seem comparable?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Building up the BIG BAD Son and daughter to be the biggest villans the SW Universe hs ever seen is common place in any genre. Build em up.. to have the hero save the day. Nothing new here.

Wow, using the "plot device" excuse to lowball. Funny how you never accepted that as an excuse for Kenobi cutting Maul in TPM.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Now, what I'm waiting for is.. if Anakin's TK is so otherworldly... than why was his TK stalemated by Kenobi? Please explain this to me.

Oh really? Is that what your waiting for now? Because I thought you were waiting for evidence of this:

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please show me ANYTIME.. JUST ONCE... That Anakin used this alleged TK AWESOMENESS you speak of to beat anybody on the level of Mace or Yoda... if you can't.. then you need to be quiet about this bullshit you speak. Anakin has never TK'd anybody on the level of these two.. EVER.

Which I clearly provided in my last post.



Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
By the way... For somebody that says Idiotic things and lacks basic logic to tell me I say dumb stuff is pretty hilarious. Nobody says dumber stuff than you DP, and everybody on here knows it.

Show me where I used the word "dumb" on this thread. If you can't then you need to re-examine your reading comprehension.

What I said was if you don't know anything about the Star Wars EU, then don't come in here ranting at everyone talking idiotic shit. Either discuss nicely and learn from people who obviously know more than you, or don't bother posting here.

You asked for evidence of Anakin JUST ONE TIME displaying this awesome TK, and doing it to people on Mace or Yoda's level. And I gave you just that. So now you've quickly shifted your demands.

Originally posted by Petrus
Which fluffly decriptions make them seem comparable?

All the fluff about Dooku being dead already the second Anakin utilizes his power, the Count's skills, experience, and power being a total joke to Anakin at this point, etc. and so forth.

That kind of dominance over one of the strongest Sith Lords ever is pretty rare.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And neither do Yoda, Mace, or Sidious in this case. Any advantage would be even keel.

But the Anakin who cowed the Son and Daughter did have that power to draw upon. So you can't really compare him to Zonakin, who doesn't have it and isn't amped to that degree.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But the Anakin who cowed the Son and Daughter did have that power to draw upon. So you can't really compare him to Zonakin, who doesn't have it and isn't amped to that degree.

But the Son and the Daughter had the same power to draw on and couldn't stop him. There's no reason to believe Mortis is necessary for Anakin to wield that power, else his peerless potential and the Father's confirmed station by Leland Chee wouldn't really apply if Mortis is really the crux to it all.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
All the fluff about Dooku being dead already the second Anakin utilizes his power, the Count's skills, experience, and power being a total joke to Anakin at this point, etc. and so forth.

That kind of dominance over one of the strongest Sith Lords ever is pretty rare.



Hmmm... You might be right. But does't Mortakin (yeah, I like your nickname, I'ma use it from now on) drawing on the power of the Ones make him even more uber than Zonakin?

EDIT - True.

Yeah but they're tied to Mortis anyway. They always have it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And neither do Yoda, Mace, or Sidious in this case. Any advantage would be even keel.


Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not sure we should distinguish Zownakin from Mortakin. Based on Stover's fluffy descriptions, they seem comparable.



I'm open to the idea that Skywalker being the chosen one gets a larger boost on a force nexus than other Jedi or Sith.

But still given the level of competition he overpowered on Mortis, added to their own Mortis amp, and Stover's ROTS description, it's pretty clear Zone Anakin is a beast who can possibly overpower any Jedi or Sith.

Originally posted by Petrus
Hmmm... You might be right. But does't Mortakin (yeah, I like your nickname, I'ma use it from now on) drawing on the power of the Ones, makes him even more uber than Zonakin?

Yes, but the Anchorites are drawing on the same power. For Anakin to still overcome them both when all three draw on the same energy source means his advantage must be internal. Which is why The Father has selected him and him alone as a replacement rather than any Force using schmuck who can harness a Force nexus.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yes, but the Anchorites are drawing on the same power. For Anakin to still overcome them both when all three draw on the same energy source means his advantage must be internal. Which is why The Father has selected him and him alone as a replacement rather than any Force using schmuck who can harness a Force nexus.

Fair enough, you make a good point. From now on Mortakin ceases to exist and he shall be known only as Zonakin.


Too bad I only got to use that nickname once.

Now the fact that Anakin's grip on reality is so tenuous as to make him unable to draw on that power in conventional situation is PIS at its finest...

But there you are.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Now the fact that Anakin's grip on reality is so tenuous as to make him unable to draw on that power in conventional situation is PIS at its finest...

But there you are.

Yeah, but that's pretty much why Anakin and Zonakin are not the same.

Originally posted by Petrus
You seem to lack the knowledge to properly argue about a thread yourself created.


Anakin stalemated Kenobi, not Zonakin. You clearly know nothing about the Son, the Father and the Daughter. Leeland Chee confirmed that the Father is the most powerful character to ever be created, being the embodiment of the Force itself. His Son is the embodiment of the dark side, his Daughter the embodiment of the light side. Together, they are considered the most powerful Force-users, as well as the Mother (Abeloth), who is stated to be a dozen times more powerful than Luke Skywalker in his prime. Zonakin casually owned the Son and the Daughter, and the Father originally intended Anakin to be his replacement when he died, strongly suggesting Zonakin at least = the Father.

Become more knowledgeable in the Star Wars EU, or GTFO.


It's fine to not know stuff if you want to learn, but you, without knowing shit, are talking like you know shit. Do yourself a favor and stop making a fool out of yourself.


Now, I agree with Mizukage Yoda. If this is ROTS Zonakin, team 2 wins but doesn't own. If it's Mortis episodes TCW Zonakin, adding Sids just makes this a curbstomp.

How many times has Anakin drawn from the power of Mortis? It has happened only one time.. Something happening one time.. doesn't mean he can just do that whenever he wants. Doesn't work that way. A power or ability needs to be displayed more than one time as a one off in order for it to be considered something he can do most times. I this case.. he can't just drawn upon said power unless it's specified in the thread. I believe you need to read the forum rules before you further make an ass out of yourself.

Ihe has heasn't drawn upon that power again.. why are people assuming he just can whenever he wants to?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Ihe has heasn't drawn upon that power again.. why are people assuming he just can whenever he wants to?

What the hell?


Dude, that's why there's a difference between Zonakin and Anakin... You're thinking they're the same, and you made this thread...

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Ihe has heasn't drawn upon that power again.. why are people assuming he just can whenever he wants to?

Who the heck's saying he uses that level of power whenever he wants?

Your the one who made this thread specifically include Zone Anakin.

His more standard power set is just a notch below Count Dooku. So still enough to give Mace Windu a pretty decent fight, but ultimately lose.

KuRuPT Thanosi your a complete idiot. The Son and The Daughter are LIGHTYEARS stronger then Yoda/Sidious/Windu. MORTIS Zone Anakin would slaughter everyone on this team. ROTS Zone Anakin would pwn Windu and take down Yoda/Sidious in tough fights or atleast stalemate.

This seems about right.

Anakin at full potential ( as per the site ) > prime father ( holocron keeper ) > abeloth > ( son/daughter ) > luke > palpatine > yoda > everyone else

Originally posted by Petrus
What the hell?


Dude, that's why there's a difference between Zonakin and Anakin... You're thinking they're the same, and you made this thread...

Maybe you're new to this forum Zoneanakin doesn't refer to the anakin in that episode its the common name used for the anakin that fought and killed dooku. That is where ZoneAnakin came from well before that episode even came out. I thought you knew that already but I guess not. Mortisanakin would be somebody totally different and would have to be specified in that thread title. Two different anakin's from one another. One could theorize that they could be the same but that isn't the common application of zoneanakin. Again though, he would have to display said ability more than once to even consider anakin being able to do it. Since he hasn't, it's not applicable to anakin in a forum fight.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Who the heck's saying he uses that level of power whenever he wants?

Your the one who made this thread specifically include Zone Anakin.

His more standard power set is just a notch below Count Dooku. So still enough to give Mace Windu a pretty decent fight, but ultimately lose.

You've been on this site long enough to know what Zoneanakin means.. stop being obtuse.. YOu know damn well that this refers to the anakin that beat Dooku.. NOT Mortianakin.. that is a totally different beast all together and would need to be specified in the OP. You know damn well what zoneanakin means.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER


His Force abilities are EXACTLY what his being in the Zone effects.

The original connotation for Zonakin in was that he was in a relaxed state of mind which would give him a tactical edge during lightsaber combat which is why he easily beheaded Dooku and why he partly lost to Obi-Wan. There's no evidence that his mind being conflicted significantly weakened his force powers.

However I do have to concede as someone who hasn't watched TCW that Zonakin may have to be updated with this new feat but I think it has less to do with him being in the zone. He should be called something else for this feat.

^^^ exactly.. that has NEVER been used to describe that feat. That feat was a one off and isn't admissable for regular anakin... Zonanakin has always been used as the one who beat dooku

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Anakin at full potential ( as per the site ) > prime father ( holocron keeper )

I'm curious, but where is it stated a FP Anakin is stronger than the Father? Do you have a link?

He had the potential to be the most powerful Force-user ever.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
^^^ exactly.. that has NEVER been used to describe that feat. That feat was a one off and isn't admissable for regular anakin... Zonanakin has always been used as the one who beat dooku
Zone Anakin killed Dooku with incredible ease. Even if you think Mace is better than Dooku, Anakin should kill him with moderate difficulty at best.

Team 1.

Mace hands Darth Shitious his ass again. And Yoda takes Anakin in a hard fight.

This is a fact.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You've been on this site long enough to know what Zoneanakin means.. stop being obtuse.. YOu know damn well that this refers to the anakin that beat Dooku.. NOT Mortianakin.. that is a totally different beast all together and would need to be specified in the OP. You know damn well what zoneanakin means.

The problem here is you lacking the relevant Star Wars EU knowledge, but then coming in here and ranting and raving at other people. You have no clue as to the Star Wars hierarchy asking for feats from the Son and Daughter. In fact I'm betting you had no clue who The Ones even were.



Zone Anakin means Anakin when he's "In the Zone."

I.e. tapping into an incredible amount of his raw power, more than he usually does/is able to.

Previously Zone Anakin only referred to Anakin when he stomped on Dooku, because that was the only time we ever saw him in the Zone. Now we have two examples of him being in the Zone.

Your wrong calling that Anakin "Mortis" Anakin, because even on Mortis his average showings were no where near equal to the Son and Daughter.

However you are right that Mortis Zone Anakin is a different beast altogether, because he really would completely wreck Yoda and Mace together in that state.

Also I suggest you read my first post before ranting and raving about which Zone Anakin this is:


Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The only way the Jedi win is if Mace's Vapaad can make his raw power grow to Anakin's level.

Although that won't help if he goes into Mortis Uber Zone mode and just TK's Yoda and Mace together.

Okay SOMEONE NEEDS TO STOP WANKING MACE.

EVEN IF MACE>DOOKU IT WOULD BE BY A SMALL AMOUNT!.

And if Mace>Dooku, Mace would still GET WTFPWNED by Zone Anakin seeing as how Anakin tooled Dooku in 20 or so seconds, wereas Dooku gave Yoda a FAR better fight

Even if MACE>DOOKU, Mace would still be pwned badly by Zone Anakin who then jumps over and helps Sidious PWN Yoda.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He had the potential to be the most powerful Force-user ever.

Ah, interesting. Glad to see that confirmed.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
seeing as how Anakin tooled Dooku in 20 or so seconds, wereas Dooku gave Yoda a FAR better fight


Zone Anakin actually defeated Dooku in an instant. The instant he "decided to win."

He simply got more and more powerful during that fight until he was arguably the most powerful Jedi/Sith alive.

Vaapad will not help Mace at all Vs Zone Anain. Anakin will wtfpwn him no matter what.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Zone Anakin actually defeated Dooku in an instant. The instant he "decided to win."

He simply got more and more powerful during that fight until he was arguably the most powerful Jedi/Sith alive.

He would still PWN Mace even if Mace>Dooku. To argue otherwise is simply ridiculous.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER



Zone Anakin means Anakin when he's "In the Zone."

I.e. tapping into an incredible amount of his raw power, more than he usually does/is able to.

Since when was this officially defined in this manner?


Yes because that was one of the very few times Anakin was in a calm state of mind which used his raw power set mixed with rational tactics instead of emotion. Zonakin doesn't exist outside of these boards, it's not necessarily a super saiyan power up.





If going by television cartoon series you can easily use Mace soloing a droid army but that is quickly shot down as "mythical."

I don't see how Mace soloing a droid army is mythical seeing as how Yoda, Plo, and Tiin soloed droid armies. It's a good feat but one capable by MANY other Jedi. Remember, its stated your Average Jedi=100battle droids. So a top tier like Mace could easily take down that much, and Yoda lifted a mountain and smashed ultra big ships a even better feat.

Originally posted by Based
Since when was this officially defined in this manner?

It's not "officially" defined. You won't find the term "Zone Anakin" in any official sources.


Originally posted by Based
Yes because that was one of the very few times Anakin was in a calm state of mind which used his raw power set mixed with rational tactics instead of emotion.

Ok.


Originally posted by Based
Zonakin doesn't exist outside of these boards, it's not necessarily a super saiyan power up.

Making one of the most powerful jedi and sith lords in history "a joke" and "useless" and overpowering the Son and Daughter does seem pretty super saiyan.



Originally posted by Based
If going by television cartoon series you can easily use Mace soloing a droid army but that is quickly shot down as "mythical."

Force powers are portrayed differently in different mediums. But fact is as far as the hierarchy of power goes, the Son and Daughter are well above Windu. Windu is actually approx on par with Dooku. He might have an edge over Dooku at most.

Dooku can solo armies of droids aswell. Seeing as how Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, Obi Wan Kenobi/Anakin Skywalker(well blindfolded) and Kit Fisto have.

And on Windu soloing a army.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
I don't see how Mace soloing a droid army is mythical seeing as how Yoda, Plo, and Tiin soloed droid armies. It's a good feat but one capable by MANY other Jedi. Remember, its stated your Average Jedi=100battle droids. So a top tier like Mace could easily take down that much, and Yoda lifted a mountain and smashed ultra big ships a even better feat.

"Zone" Anakin is really the dumbest concept. Just like the "Vaapad steals inner dark power to make you equal to any darksider" concept. Stover's writing really seems to make ideas like these pop up, but I really don't believe they're what he had in mind.

Anakin's surge of strength was through his fury--You could call that his "Zone" I guess, but it's not like he was in some god mode and could wipe out anyone. He often ends up fighting this way, and it's just a part of how he fights. Honestly, when I see "Zonakin" I just translate it into "Anakin".

Either way, I'm actually voting team 1. While I'd say Anakin's more powerful than Mace is, having defeated Dooku and all, Vaapad is definitely suited for turning Anakin's fury, which makes him so strong, into a weakness. This way, I can honestly see Mace having a crack at defeating Anakin.

And you know, Yoda and Sidious are just going to go at it until either Mace or Anakin comes out, and I'm gonna go with Mace.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Dooku can solo armies of droids aswell. Seeing as how Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, Obi Wan Kenobi/Anakin Skywalker(well blindfolded) and Kit Fisto have.

And on Windu soloing a army.

And yet on Geonosis, nearly 215 of the best of the Jedi are slayn by something like a couple thousand battle droids, and Mace doesn't seem to be crushing them in droves.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
"Zone" Anakin is really the dumbest concept. Just like the "Vaapad steals inner dark power to make you equal to any darksider" concept. Stover's writing really seems to make ideas like these pop up, but I really don't believe they're what he had in mind.

Anakin's surge of strength was through his fury--You could call that his "Zone" I guess, but it's not like he was in some god mode and could wipe out anyone. He often ends up fighting this way, and it's just a part of how he fights. Honestly, when I see "Zonakin" I just translate it into "Anakin".



Then how do you explain what he did on Mortis?

Or the fact that Dooku (someone much more powerful than Kenobi, one of the most powerful Jedi and Sith in the entire history of the Jedi/Sith, and someone capable of going toe to toe with frigging Yoda) stood no chance at all once Skywalker had entered the Zone?

It was that full fury but with a sense of "clarity." We've learned in the Clone Wars commentary that being the the "right mind set" makes a huge huge difference to a Jedi/Sith in a fight.

Originally posted by NewGuy01

Either way, I'm actually voting team 1. While I'd say Anakin's more powerful than Mace is, having defeated Dooku and all, Vaapad is definitely suited for turning Anakin's fury, which makes him so strong, into a weakness. This way, I can honestly see Mace having a crack at defeating Anakin.


I'm confused. A second ago you were saying the whole Vapaad loop and Zone thing were stupid and probably not Stover's intentions.


Originally posted by NewGuy01
And yet on Geonosis, nearly 215 of the best of the Jedi are slayn by something like a couple thousand battle droids, and Mace doesn't seem to be crushing them in droves.



This is true. The cw mini was an exaggerated medium compared to the movies.

Originally posted by Stigma
True, but so is TFU, DE, TOR & KOTOR, Legacy era....

How so? Other than TFU I'm not seeing the exaggeration.

Because Force storms that eat fleets, Force drains that raze worlds, mindhaxxing thousands of Sith, etc. and so forth all jazz with G-canon interpretation of the Force.

It's awfully convenient how what's exaggerated happens to surgically exclude the shit you wank to, Neph.

Uh-huh, except those examples are clearly exceptions from the most powerful beings ever, while the standard power-level of the series' are actually in keeping with G-canon.

With TFU and CW the level of power is explicitly exaggerated and overblown and has been stated as such.

Uh huh, except Yoda and Sidious are also clearly exceptions as some of the most powerful beings ever and yet the shit they do in the movies is nowhere near as outlandish.

Your argument fails.

Sidious tells Mace that he'll feel the ''full power of the dark side''. The lightning doesn't even burn Mace's clothes, but in the EU, his lightning burns witches to bones.

Either Sidious was lying, which he had absolutely no reason to do, or the EU showcase feats differently.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Uh huh, except Yoda and Sidious are also clearly exceptions as some of the most powerful beings ever and yet the shit they do in the movies is nowhere near as outlandish.

Your argument fails.

Uh-huh, except Sidious blitzing 3 of the greatest swordsman in Jedi history, right?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Then how do you explain what he did on Mortis?

Or the fact that Dooku (someone much more powerful than Kenobi, one of the most powerful Jedi and Sith in the entire history of the Jedi/Sith, and someone capable of going toe to toe with frigging Yoda) stood no chance at all once Skywalker had entered the Zone?

It was that full fury but with a sense of "clarity." We've learned in the Clone Wars commentary that being the the "right mind set" makes a huge huge difference to a Jedi/Sith in a fight.



I'm confused. A second ago you were saying the whole Vapaad loop and Zone thing were stupid and probably not Stover's intentions.






This is true. The cw mini was an exaggerated medium compared to the movies.

1. Oh, I do not say this is incorrect. I'm merely saying that I think Stover's over-exaggeration in his writing is leading people off track. This "burst of clarity" correlates with his fury, and I'm doubtful that his abilities change so much when he tangos with the Dark Side, as he does this quite often. Counting him as a completely different combatant than usual is somewhat silly to me, even if he's better than usual. Quite frankly, his performance against Dooku isn't all that much better than their battle in Season 4, and the leeway could be due to his improvement between then and ROTS, considering it was an almost 2 year gap. This uber mode theory bugs me.

2. I'm not denying Vaapad's ability, I'm more referring to how people take it's mechanic. Vaapad can accept the fury of one's opponent, and use it to the user's advantage, but this is hardly different than what Sith Juyo practitioners can do. They feed off the negative emotions of their opponents such as fear or anger to gain strength--Vaapad does the same with different mechanic and greater effect. This is true.

What I'm referring to is some posts I see people make about "Feeding on Inner Darkness and Dark Power" and "Making you equal to any Darksider you face". Just because with this boost he reached an impasse with Sidious, it doesn't mean Vaapad just equals you out with any Darksider. It's just far too overhyped, and the text is too overthought. It does not steal the Dark Powers of your opponent or anything like that. This is what I'm talking about--I'm not just ignoring Vaapad's skillsets or advantages.

3. Glad you agree.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
1. Oh, I do not say this is incorrect. I'm merely saying that I think Stover's over-exaggeration in his writing is leading people off track. This "burst of clarity" correlates with his fury, and I'm doubtful that his abilities change so much when he tangos with the Dark Side, as he does this quite often. Counting him as a completely different combatant than usual is somewhat silly to me, even if he's better than usual. Quite frankly, his performance against Dooku isn't all that much better than their battle in Season 4, and the leeway could be due to his improvement between then and ROTS, considering it was an almost 2 year gap. This uber mode theory bugs me.

I don't know. It seems to me Dooku's force powers still gave him the edge during Season4 against Skywalker.

But the ROTS novel describes his force powers as useless. That is a big difference Imo. And he clearly was using his anger in that Season 4 episode.

And I'm not sure how muich he improved considering Dooku almost defeated him via that slam kick, while simultaneously stomping Kenobi.

And clearly Kenobi is not Dooku's equal in Sabers.

So I just find it highly unlikely that the same Fury that Dooku was useless against, Kenobi could handle for minutes on end.
Not to mention Sith Anakin stalemated Kenobi in the Force, and Kenobi was completely owned by Dooku in the Force. So why would Dooku's force powers be useless against a Fury driven Skywalker then?

There must have been a huge difference in power between Zone Anakin and Sith Anakin.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
2. I'm not denying Vaapad's ability, I'm more referring to how people take it's mechanic. Vaapad can accept the fury of one's opponent, and use it to the user's advantage, but this is hardly different than what Sith Juyo practitioners can do. They feed off the negative emotions of their opponents such as fear or anger to gain strength--Vaapad does the same with different mechanic and greater effect. This is true.

What I'm referring to is some posts I see people make about "Feeding on Inner Darkness and Dark Power" and "Making you equal to any Darksider you face". Just because with this boost he reached an impasse with Sidious, it doesn't mean Vaapad just equals you out with any Darksider. It's just far too overhyped, and the text is too overthought. It does not steal the Dark Powers of your opponent or anything like that. This is what I'm talking about--I'm not just ignoring Vaapad's skillsets or advantages.



Yeah the exact mechanics of Vapaad are open to interpretation. It doesn't help that no canon source has confirmed how it works.

"Unstoppable power of a meteor strike" sounds like the Tunguska Event.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I don't know. It seems to me Dooku's force powers still gave him the edge during Season4 against Skywalker.

But the ROTS novel describes his force powers as useless. That is a big difference Imo. And he clearly was using his anger in that Season 4 episode.

And I'm not sure how muich he improved considering Dooku almost defeated him via that slam kick, while simultaneously stomping Kenobi.

And clearly Kenobi is not Dooku's equal in Sabers.

So I just find it highly unlikely that the same Fury that Dooku was useless against, Kenobi could handle for minutes on end.
Not to mention Sith Anakin stalemated Kenobi in the Force, and Kenobi was completely owned by Dooku in the Force. So why would Dooku's force powers be useless against a Fury driven Skywalker then?

There must have been a huge difference in power between Zone Anakin and Sith Anakin.

Well, the RotS novel makes it pretty clear that Dooku is being driven to his heels through the entire fight, not just during the end. Getting one kick in doesn't change that fact.

As for his Force Powers being "a joke"--I have two things to say to this. Firstly, as I have said, I think Stover's writing is filled with several hyperboles that are being taken too literally. Anakin is just too powerful for Dooku. However, I believe this writing about him being "useless" and being "already dead" is really just for suspense. In the actual fight, he really didn't seem to be doing much better at the end then he was at the beginning--It's just that in the middle he was hindered by fear to draw on his fury in battle.

And thirdly--I'm not going to simply call it out as ABC logic and be done with it--But this is some pretty bad ABC logic. For one, in the novel itself it's stated that Obi-Wan was only lasting due to their thousands of sparring matches during the Clone Wars. They knew each other's techniques "more intimately than lovers". Both of them knew exactly how to counter the other, and neither were able to gain an advantage. Secondly, Anakin was "between worlds" per RoDV, and was vulnerable. Not that his actual combat ability was siphoned, but mentally the dude was unstable--He was far too reckless in the battle. This led to both Kenobi being able to gain advantages in the battle to survive as well as Anakin's defeat. The situation was just completely different than Anakin vs Dooku. Besides, even though overall Dooku rather outclasses Kenobi--As duelists they could be considered comparable or even "close" in their own right. I mean, look at how well Kenobi did against the brothers.

I wouldn't say there's a huge power difference at all. Simply that Obi-Wan's battle with Anakin was far more circumstancial to both the events and the fact that they'd fought thousands of times before, there really was no surprises for Obi-Wan like there was Dooku.

Though I will admit, Anakin at the time he fought Dooku was probably stronger than he was in his battle with Obi-Wan, I don't believe he should be considered an entirely different character, much less one that's stronger than anyone else in the mythos.

Originally posted by NewGuy01





Though I will admit, Anakin at the time he fought Dooku was probably stronger than he was in his battle with Obi-Wan, I don't believe he should be considered an entirely different character, much less one that's stronger than anyone else in the mythos.

So we agree Anakin was stronger when he fought Dooku

It's just about how much stronger. I get you don't have to believe the possible hyperbolic type statements, but I hope you agree anyone who can overpower Count Dooku like that will be a serious threat to any Jedi or Sith in the mythos.

And fact is there's the Mortis trilogy which shows Skywalker can access that Uber Power that trumps the power of any Jedi or Sith.

Didint Gillard state that Regular Anakin was a level 8 in saberdueling?.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So we agree Anakin was stronger when he fought Dooku

It's just about how much stronger. I get you don't have to believe the possible hyperbolic type statements, but I hope you agree anyone who can overpower Count Dooku like that will be a serious threat to any Jedi or Sith in the mythos.

And fact is there's the Mortis trilogy which shows Skywalker can access that Uber Power that trumps the power of any Jedi or Sith.

I'm just saying "Zone" Anakin shouldn't be clarified as a completely different character. Because, more or less, every character has a "Zone" and whatever. Yet I don't see topics with "ZoDooku" or "Zenobi". If you put a character, you assume they are at their best unless otherwise specified. Anakin should be no exception. Enough said.

If what Anakin did against Dooku was the same thing he did against the Son and Daughter of Mortis, there wouldn't have been a 40+ second fight after Kenobi went down. Dooku would have been force-floored before he could recover from Anakin's kick. If not, he'd be blitzed by "de full powah of the chosen one" enhanced Force Speed.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'm just saying "Zone" Anakin shouldn't be clarified as a completely different character. Because, more or less, every character has a "Zone" and whatever. Yet I don't see topics with "ZoDooku" or "Zenobi". If you put a character, you assume they are at their best unless otherwise specified. Anakin should be no exception. Enough said.

Because Dooku and Kenobi are Jedi/Sith Masters. They're older and have mastered their powers. I mean who would Zone Dooku even be?

Although there have been threads here saying "Peak Kenobi," as in the Kenobi who outfought both Brothers, rather than Kenobi when he got knocked out by Ventress in a few seconds.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
If what Anakin did against Dooku was the same thing he did against the Son and Daughter of Mortis, there wouldn't have been a 40+ second fight after Kenobi went down. Dooku would have been force-floored before he could recover from Anakin's kick. If not, he'd be blitzed by "de full powah of the chosen one" enhanced Force Speed.

Well no because according to the novel even in their one on one Skywalker was said to "still" be holding back on his full fury and power.

But it's said the instant Skywalker stopped holding back and "decided to win" Dooku's hands went off.

I don't expect that Invisible Hand Zone Skywalker would be on the same level as Mortis Zone Skywalker. But considering Skywalker didn't repeat that feat on Mortis, proves he does have a Zone setting, in which he becomes tremendously more powerful.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Didint Gillard state that Regular Anakin was a level 8 in saberdueling?.

I guess that would be Skywalker when he's completely holding back on his rage. Since even as of TCW he's competing with Count Dooku. Something Kenobi "a level 8" can not do.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, the RotS novel makes it pretty clear that Dooku is being driven to his heels through the entire fight, not just during the end. Getting one kick in doesn't change that fact.


It means nothing, since this whole fight between Dooku and Jedi (and also Yoda and Sidious) contradicts the movie or script. What Stover wrote is just BS.
But you of caurse have your rights to use this book as argument.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Besides, even though overall Dooku rather outclasses Kenobi--As duelists they could be considered comparable or even "close" in their own right. I mean, look at how well Kenobi did against the brothers.


This time I will be the one, who will use Stover's Novel:

Kenobi reached the top of the stairs and a single slash of hislightsaber dismantled both droids. Before their pieces could evenhit the floor Dooku was in motion, landing a spinning side-stamp that folded Skywalker in half; he used his last burst of darkpower to continue his spin into a blindingly fast wheel-kick thatbrought his heel against the point of Kenobi's chin with acracklike the report of a huge-bore slugthrower, knocking the JediMaster back down the stairs. Sounded like he'd broken his neck.

So, even with help from Skywalker (who, according to novel was better then Dooku during the whole fight), Kenobi was defeated by Dooku in a sword (not force) contest. Not to mention, that Dooku was in terrible physical condition:

The impact was a blast of white fire, and there was a secondimpact against his back that was the balcony rail, and then the room turned upside down and he fell toward the ceiling, but not really, of course: it only felt that way because he had flipped overthe rail and he was falling headfirst toward the floor, and neitherhis arms nor his legs were paying any attention to what he wastrying to make them do.
The Force seemed to be busy elsewhere,and really, the whole process was entirely mortifying.
He was barely able to summon a last surge of dark power before what would have been a disabling impact. The Force cradledhim, cushioning his fall and setting him on his feet.

So, Dooku who was extremally tired, and being attacked by even stronger opponent then himself, was still able to defeated Kenobi, who was equally skilled to him?

Gillard said Anakin was a level 9.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Maybe you're new to this forum Zoneanakin doesn't refer to the anakin in that episode its the common name used for the anakin that fought and killed dooku. That is where ZoneAnakin came from well before that episode even came out. I thought you knew that already but I guess not. Mortisanakin would be somebody totally different and would have to be specified in that thread title. Two different anakin's from one another. One could theorize that they could be the same but that isn't the common application of zoneanakin.

You clearly missed my posts with Tempest. Try again:

Originally posted by Petrus
Hmmm... You might be right. But does't Mortakin (yeah, I like your nickname, I'ma use it from now on) drawing on the power of the Ones make him even more uber than Zonakin?


Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yes, but the Anchorites are drawing on the same power. For Anakin to still overcome them both when all three draw on the same energy source means his advantage must be internal. Which is why The Father has selected him and him alone as a replacement rather than any Force using schmuck who can harness a Force nexus.

Originally posted by Petrus
Fair enough, you make a good point. From now on Mortakin ceases to exist and he shall be known only as Zonakin.




So, yeah...


Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Again though, he would have to display said ability more than once to even consider anakin being able to do it. Since he hasn't, it's not applicable to anakin in a forum fight.


If you believe that then why the hell would you make a thread about "Zone Anakin"...?

Sorry just noticed this part of your post so replying to it now:

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, the RotS novel makes it pretty clear that Dooku is being driven to his heels through the entire fight, not just during the end. Getting one kick in doesn't change that fact.



That kick had Skywalker completely floored and useless for a good 10 seconds.

So of course it changes a lot about the fight. The especially awesome part was simultaneously owning Kenobi.

Whilst before Skywalker vs Dooku's 1 on 1, the Jedi duo even together did not land a single hit on the Count.

So yes, that kick does make a big difference when comparing the novel and movie versions of the fight.


Originally posted by Intrepid37
Gillard said Anakin was a level 9.


Yes that's true, Gillard only named Skywalker as a 9. He never once named him an 8.

The movie outranks the novel in terms of canon, and there clearly is a contradiction with that kick. Thus, the movie renders the kick non-canon and confirms Anakin's complete stomp of Dooku even more convincingly.

Originally posted by Petrus
The movie outranks the novel in terms of canon, and there clearly is a contradiction with that kick. Thus, the movie renders the kick non-canon and confirms Anakin's complete stomp of Dooku even more convincingly.

Talking about Dooku kicking Anakin. Skywalker was floored and helpless for a good 10 seconds, so can hardly say Anakin stomped Dooku unless you ignore everything that happened up until Kenobi got KO'd, which some people do, stating that's when he transformed into ZONAKIN!

I hate Zonakin...

I still am not convinced that Zonakin is any different than peak Anakin.

Originally posted by Petrus
The movie outranks the novel in terms of canon, and there clearly is a contradiction with that kick. Thus, the movie renders the kick non-canon and confirms Anakin's complete stomp of Dooku even more convincingly.

WTF are you talking about? Of course, movie is above novel, but this kick that Power is talking about is from movie. Another source of this fight, Rise and Fall of DV is 100% consistent with movie version. And in this book Dooku outclassed both, Anakin and Obi-Wan, until Anakin starts to use his anger.

Actually according to the script Anakin was already getting angry and growing in strength before Dooku slam kicked him.

But after that he tapped into even more of his rage/innate power, which is when he was finally able to defeat the Count.




Originally posted by NewGuy01
I still am not convinced that Zonakin is any different than peak Anakin.

Either way it's pretty clear that "peak" Anakin is a pretty powerful dude who would be a threat to any Jedi/Sith including the likes of Sidious and Yoda, which actually is what the ROTS Novel hints towards on various occassions.

@ Darth Power
Hard to tell, since one sequence was cut off:

COUNT DOOKU: I've been looking forward to this.
ANAKIN: My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.
COUNT DOOKU: Good. Twice the pride, double the fall.
DOOKU lunges at the JEDI and they fall back . . .
COUNT DOOKU: (continuing) Your moves are clumsy, Kenobi . . . too predictable. You'll have to do better.
As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tired. ANAKIN is stronger as he becomes angry. ANAKIN continues to drive the attack on DOOKU. COUNT DOOKU throws OBI-WAN back using the Force.

After this sequence, Dooku and Kenobi are tired, and Anakin's getting stronger. But it was acctualy not happen. Dooku and Kenobi probably aren't tired. Is Anaking getting stronger? I have no idea, but still he's not on Count's level (after all, Dooku overpowered them both in saber lock, and take an advantage).

Anakin regains his composure and attacks COUNT DOOKU as the Dark Lord continues his spin to meet him head on. Their fighting becomes even more intense. Anakin attacks COUNT DOOKU with a new ferociousness.

I would say, that this part was also cut off, since Anakin looks really angry just after Count's words.
Rise and Fall of DV confirms that:

"I sense great fear in you, Skywalker," Dooku said. "You have hate. You have anger. But you don't use them."
Anakin grimaced, angrier than before, the blades unlocked, and the duel resumed. Trading blows across the chamber, they came to a stop near the hostage Palpatine.
Dooku was using both hands to grip his lightsaber, putting more of his
strength into each deadly swing, when Anakin reached out fast with his left hand to catch Dooku's wrists.

^ Yeah well that is hard to tell. But that's where I'll give the script and novel the benefit of the doubt, and assume Skywalker was getting stronger as he got more angry- but clearly still wasn't powerful enough to defeat Count Dooku.. Not until he "attacks with a new ferociousness."

^
Yeah, that's my point
That's why I'm calling this part of Stover's novel BS.

The script is sort of suspect though; it stretches belief that Obi Wan and Dooku would grow tired after, what...15 seconds of combat?

Originally posted by Zett

Hard to tell, since one sequence was cut off:

COUNT DOOKU: I've been looking forward to this.
ANAKIN: My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.
COUNT DOOKU: Good. Twice the pride, double the fall.
DOOKU lunges at the JEDI and they fall back . . .
COUNT DOOKU: (continuing) Your moves are clumsy, Kenobi . . . too predictable. You'll have to do better.
As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tired. ANAKIN is stronger as he becomes angry. ANAKIN continues to drive the attack on DOOKU. COUNT DOOKU throws OBI-WAN back using the Force.

After this sequence, Dooku and Kenobi are tired, and Anakin's getting stronger. But it was acctualy not happen. Dooku and Kenobi probably aren't tired. Is Anaking getting stronger? I have no idea, but still he's not on Count's level (after all, Dooku overpowered them both in saber lock, and take an advantage).

Originally posted by Zett
WTF are you talking about? Of course, movie is above novel, but this kick that Power is talking about is from movie. Another source of this fight, Rise and Fall of DV is 100% consistent with movie version. And in this book Dooku outclassed both, Anakin and Obi-Wan, until Anakin starts to use his anger.

I know that, it was just an example. I apologize if I didn't make that clear.

How many times does this simple fact need to be made clear.. what Anakin did on Mortis was a ONE OFF and not something he's normally capable of doing. It's really that simple. It took many factors not present in a normal fight for him to even do that. Let's stop acting like Anakin can do that all the time or that is part of his normal powerset.. it's not.

If so, than why after he's even more powerful in ROTS did he not just make Dooku bow before him with the force? Why didn't he just do the same to kenobi? Because as I stated that particular Mortis event was a one off that took many variables for that to even happen. Zone anakin is the one we saw against Dooku... Mortis Anakin is just that.. Mortis Anakin.. it's not the same beast at all.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please show me ANYTIME.. JUST ONCE... That Anakin used this alleged TK AWESOMENESS you speak of to beat anybody on the level of Mace or Yoda... if you can't.. then you need to be quiet about this bullshit you speak. Anakin has never TK'd anybody on the level of these two.. EVER.

So tell me... Why wasn't he able to do so to Dooku and Kenobi when he's confirmed via narration and the movie to be significantly more powerful than when he performed that feat? Odd isn't it? Could it be because that was under special circumstances and simply a one off.. something that he coulnd't do again unless those same variables are in place?

^ I was simply pointing out how you ask for one specific thing, hinting you will concede if your shown just that one thing, and then when your shown it you just completely change the direction of your argument, not conceding to anything, and asking for new demands.

Anyway:

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So tell me... Why wasn't he able to do so to Dooku and Kenobi when he's confirmed via narration and the movie to be significantly more powerful than when he performed that feat? Odd isn't it? Could it be because that was under special circumstances and simply a one off.. something that he coulnd't do again unless those same variables are in place?

Yes his Zone mode is rare and not the norm. That's why he's called Zone Anakin.

Mortis Zone Anakin was the highest feat of power he's ever displayed. Him Solidly Overpowering Dooku probably comes second.

Now tell me why is it that Kenobi got completely thrashed by Dooku in ROTS when he once handled both Maul brothers together, even though he's supposed to be at his peak by ROTS?
"Odd isn't it? Could it be because that was under special circumstances and simply a one off.. something that he coulnd't do again unless those same variables are in place?"

^
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Nobody says dumber stuff than you DP, and everybody on here knows it.

Originally posted by Petrus
You seem to lack the knowledge to properly argue about a thread yourself created.

Originally posted by Petrus
What the hell?

Dude, that's why there's a difference between Zonakin and Anakin... You're thinking they're the same, and you made this thread...

Originally posted by NTJack0
I don't even think this is worth a response.

On top of that, was the Anakin Obi-Wan was fighting Zonakin? No? Didn't think so.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
KuRuPT Thanosi your a complete idiot.

You wont be able to give him an arguments, because in his little world, that he created for himself, there is no place for people who disagree with him.
Despite all of this quotes, we both know DP, that many others people, like Mizukage Yoda or Intrepid37 for example, agreed with you much more often then with him.
So, I guess your efforts are pointless.

Originally posted by Zett



You wont be able to give him an arguments, because in his little world, that he created for himself, there is no place for people who disagree with him.
Despite all of this quotes, we both know DP, that many others people, like Mizukage Yoda or Intrepid37 for example, agreed with you much more often then with him.
So, I guess your efforts are pointless.



I think I originally skimmed over the part where he says no one says dumber stuff than me and everyone knows it. Kind of funny coming from him!

It's nothing you haven't heard before DP.. Should I quote all the people that have laughed at you and made fun of your views? Say the word lol

Bro, everyone laugh at your posts, and the ones that don't laugh, it's because not everyone can read what's unreadable.

You're still mad that I tooled your theory about Sidious throwing the entire fight huh? I know you got battered in that thread and others but it will be okay intrepid.

I think that's one of the few of your posts that I didn't get a headache from reading.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It's nothing you haven't heard before DP.. Should I quote all the people that have laughed at you and made fun of your views? Say the word lol

Yes I've had some heated debates here, but it's all part of debating. Sometimes it's easier to just "make fun" of your opponent's views instead of successfully addressing them. But with the exception of Sidious66 I really can't think of many people here who generally laugh at my views, or don't take me seriously. You on the other hand..

Fact is your butthurt because I've owned you on this thread. You asked for JUST ONE TIME, that Anakin showed Awesome TK overpowering anyone on or above Mace and Yoda's level. "JUST ONE TIME." And you had the nerve to insult me in the process. Well I showed you ONE TIME, and you really should have conceded there and then that you don't know that much about the SW EU, and should probably listen more to people here. Instead you just completely changed your argument still ramming it down people's throats.

Actually Sidious isn't the only one DP and you know it. The only people who have insulted me in this thread are the people who disagree with me. Expected.

When I asked for that I wasn't including said incident because that isn't typical Anakin.. shit that isn't even zone anakin or fighting the best he can Anakin. That was a one off situation where he was aided in accomplishing said feat. I don't consider that either typical or fighting great Anakin. You very well know the variables in place to pull that feat off.. Those variables aren't in this thread. So then, if Anakin can't overpower Kenobi with TK.. nor did he overpower Dooku in the zone with TK.. How then, is he going to overpower Yoda or Mace with TK?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Actually Sidious isn't the only one DP and you know it.

Go on then, name me 2 others. And then name me 3 people who take you seriously here. I think Mnat801 used to side with you a lot, basically because he loved Obi-Wan, so he loved your idea that Sith Anakin > Zone Anakin. Apart from him I was probably the only one ironically.



Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
When I asked for that I wasn't including said incident because that isn't typical Anakin.. shit that isn't even zone anakin or fighting the best he can Anakin. That was a one off situation where he was aided in accomplishing said feat. I don't consider that either typical or fighting great Anakin. You very well know the variables in place to pull that feat off.. Those variables aren't in this thread. So then, if Anakin can't overpower Kenobi with TK.. nor did he overpower Dooku in the zone with TK.. How then, is he going to overpower Yoda or Mace with TK?

This has all been answered on this very thread. Yet you keep harping on about the same shit over and over again.

Just go back through this thread, and you'll see your responses. You can ignore them all you want, but no dancing around is going to change the fact that I owned you on your own thread when I posted the feat you demanded.

Posting a one off feat with variables NOT in this thread isn't owning me. That is a total joke. Let me ask you this.. where anakin pulled off that feat.. did that aid in the feat in anyways?

Couldn't Sidious simply crush Windu's entire body or his skull, or his throat instantly with his unrivaled TK? (similar to what he did to the maul brothers).

Apparently not.

Couldn't Mace just take a dump on Sids mouth and KO him with the smell?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Couldn't Mace just take a dump on Sids mouth and KO him with the smell?

What a vivid portrait of your depraved sexcapades.



...It would not displease me to read further.

lmao

Originally posted by The_Tempest
What a vivid portrait of your depraved sexcapades.



...It would not displease me to read further.

Sorry I had a freudian slip there.. I'll try to not let that happen again when talking about Mace

That is most... Displeasing.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please show me ANYTIME.. JUST ONCE... That Anakin used this alleged TK AWESOMENESS you speak of to beat anybody on the level of Mace or Yoda... if you can't.. then you need to be quiet about this bullshit you speak. Anakin has never TK'd anybody on the level of these two.. EVER.


Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Actually they were more powerful than Mace and Yoda:

9eEssepWEps




Yep that was ownage.



Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Posting a one off feat with variables NOT in this thread isn't owning me. That is a total joke.

And yet you continuously harp on about Obi-Wan's one off feat (with variables) fighting off both Maul brothers. Claiming it's something he can accomplish on "Any given day."

Double standards much?


Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Let me ask you this.. where anakin pulled off that feat.. did that aid in the feat in anyways?

Oh so it was all about the location. Is that the new direction of your argument after being owned in every other direction you've turned?

Ok, that's cool. It was a Force Nexus, so any Jedi or Sith would be considerably more powerful there. But guess who else was there? Oh that's right, your beloved Obi-Wan who you claim is equally/more powerful in the Force to Zone Anakin.

And did he display such power there? No. He was in fact one of the people Skywalker was saving there.


Now I'm open to the idea that Skywalker being the chosen one gets a bigger boost on a Force nexus than other Jedi/Sith (although that's just speculation with no proof behind it), but then wouldn't that mean Zone Anakin gets an even larger boost than all other Jedi Sith on any Force Nexus?

Do you know the Jedi Temple is itself on a Force Nexus? Which would mean Zone Anakin's chances of taking out Yoda or Mace on their own home turf would be pretty damn good.

Do you enjoy posting the same quote over and over again as if it reinforces your point more? Why would you post a feat where it was totally dependant on a specific location not in this fight? How the F do you think that was ownage?

What's worse is now you think I'm changing my direction? I've stated from the jump that isn't a applicable feat to what I asked for. I said from the jump that feat had cirucumstances that don't exist in this thread or in general. So how on earth am I now changng my direction? LOL

I'm honestly curious if you're this dumb or just playing dumb? It's like me asking you when did a Prime jack Johnson ever lose to a White Fighter in a 20 round or less fight... and then you citing me Jess Willard. Granted, I know you know nothing about boxing. However, Jess Willard was white and was a HW and Johnson did lose to him. Yet, that example woudn't apply because Jack wasn't in his prime he was 37.. he lost after the 20th round and the fight was in the hot cuban sun in which people not fighting suffered heat stroke. Understand now? When I asked you for a time Anakin owned someone in TK like Mace or Yoda.. Why the **** would you think an example of Anakin doing so in a nexus with aid applies to my question? YOu honestly can't be this dumb. You even admit it was a one off and it took special cirucmstances and nt typical for a normal anakin or even a zone anakin yet you still cited it and thought you owend me LOL

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Do you enjoy posting the same quote over and over again as if it reinforces your point more? Why would you post a feat where it was totally dependant on a specific location not in this fight? How the F do you think that was ownage?

Because it proved you didn't have a clue what you were on about before attacking me. That is pure ownage. Keep crying about it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What's worse is now you think I'm changing my direction? I've stated from the jump that isn't a applicable feat to what I asked for. I said from the jump that feat had cirucumstances that don't exist in this thread or in general. So how on earth am I now changng my direction? LOL

You asked for the feat. I gave it you. You jumped in several different directions since then refusing to accept it.

Heck your first direction was to demand feats from the Ones LOL, further proving you don't even know what the heck your going on about here.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Understand now? When I asked you for a time Anakin owned someone in TK like Mace or Yoda.. Why the **** would you think an example of Anakin doing so in a nexus with aid applies to my question? YOu honestly can't be this dumb. You even admit it was a one off and it took special cirucmstances and nt typical for a normal anakin or even a zone anakin yet you still cited it and thought you owend me LOL

Wow. You've not answered any of my questions, and have carried on with your rant which I and others have already answered. Amazing!

So you going to just go on about this Force Nexus thing, which also made the Ones more Powerful? Which Kenobi also had access to and yet he was helpless against the Ones. Is this the latest shift in your argument?

Well the Jedi temple is on a Force Nexus, so you going to admit now that Zone Anakin can overpower Mace or Yoda (or possibly both) on their home turf?

You don't even understand what Zone Anakin is. It's Anakin bringing out all his accessible power in one go. Something he does with the right focus and yes rage too. What Zone Anakin is not is just pure mindless rage. I.e. Sith Anakin is not Zone Anakin. Sith Anakin was in fact only equal to Kenobi in Force TK, so we know as a fact that Count Dooku would pimp Force TK smack Sith Anakin all over the place. But of course Count Dooku could do no such thing to Zone Anakin.

Originally posted by Board Walker
Couldn't Sidious simply crush Windu's entire body or his skull, or his throat instantly with his unrivaled TK? (similar to what he did to the maul brothers).

Well either:

1) Mace is simply more powerful in the Force than Maul/Opress OR

2) Mace's raw power is similar to the Brothers, but he has greater mastery of the Force which allows him to apply that power more efficiently to aid his Force defenses OR

3) Mace was putting too much pressure on Sidious in the Lightsaber duel making it difficult for Sidious to take a time out to Force Own Windu.


Take your pick, but I'm guessing most people will lean towards the first. Although the first seems a bit odd to me considering the Brothers own beastly force feats.

Mace got pwned pretty hard when Sidious smacked him with the Force.

^ He almost got overpowered at that point, but he took it and carried on fighting.

He did get overpowered, but he reacted fast enough to change the path he flew.

That was in the novel. The script (Lucas canon version) has Sidious slamming Mace into a wall then attempting to cut him down, but Mace dodges him IIRC.
Whilst when Maul got force pushed he got KO'd.
Of course that could just mean Sidious was not able to put his full power into the force push against Mace.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Because it proved you didn't have a clue what you were on about before attacking me. That is pure ownage. Keep crying about it.



You asked for the feat. I gave it you. You jumped in several different directions since then refusing to accept it.

Heck your first direction was to demand feats from the Ones LOL, further proving you don't even know what the heck your going on about here.



Wow. You've not answered any of my questions, and have carried on with your rant which I and others have already answered. Amazing!

So you going to just go on about this Force Nexus thing, which also made the Ones more Powerful? Which Kenobi also had access to and yet he was helpless against the Ones. Is this the latest shift in your argument?

Well the Jedi temple is on a Force Nexus, so you going to admit now that Zone Anakin can overpower Mace or Yoda (or possibly both) on their home turf?

You don't even understand what Zone Anakin is. It's Anakin bringing out all his accessible power in one go. Something he does with the right focus and yes rage too. What Zone Anakin is not is just pure mindless rage. I.e. Sith Anakin is not Zone Anakin. Sith Anakin was in fact only equal to Kenobi in Force TK, so we know as a fact that Count Dooku would pimp Force TK smack Sith Anakin all over the place. But of course Count Dooku could do no such thing to Zone Anakin.

You citing an example that isn't relevant to the discussion at hand. What is so unclear about that? I used the boxing analogy to illustrate example what you did and how it doesn't apply to this thread or any normal/zone anakin thread. Most people agree that there is a different even between Zone Anakin and MortisAnakin... Thus, your example is invalid.

Why do you keep going on and on about the Jedi temple thing? As if Anakin would be the only one getting a boost from the Jedi temple? Mace and Yoda also would be getting a boost themselves and are much more experienced and powerful at that point in Anakin's life. Sure, eventually Anakin could've surpassed them at some point.. but not when we saw him. So tell me... Does the Jedi temple offer the same mount of boost as Mortis?

Now.. I want a applicable example of when Anakin owned somebody on the level of Yoda or Mace or Sidious in TK? This time.. try and give me one that is actually relevant to this thread.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That was in the novel. The script (Lucas canon version) has Sidious slamming Mace into a wall then attempting to cut him down, but Mace dodges him IIRC.
Whilst when Maul got force pushed he got KO'd.
Of course that could just mean Sidious was not able to put his full power into the force push against Mace.

My interpretation is that while Sidious is more powerful and can toss him around a bit, it isn't to the extent that he can pwn him or capitalise on it effectively. At least not in lightsaber combat.

He isn't above him to the extent that he can dominate him like he did against Maul and Opress.

Sidious is more powerful in the force.. I dno't know about toss him around though... I mean he could get in some TK moves I suppose.. But I believe Mace is fast enough and powerful enough to either counter it or mitigate the power of the attack

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You citing an example that isn't relevant to the discussion at hand. What is so unclear about that? I used the boxing analogy to illustrate example what you did and how it doesn't apply to this thread or any normal/zone anakin thread. Most people agree that there is a different even between Zone Anakin and MortisAnakin... Thus, your example is invalid.

We've said it time and time again:


You were the one who put Zone Anakin on the title of the thread. Of course we know what Anakin did against the Ones and against Dooku isn't consistent to Anakin's abilities overall, but that's exactly the reason why he's called Zone Anakin... By putting 'Zone Anakin' on the title of this thread, you are making people assume you are referring to the Anakin who can pull stuff like that off, not the one who can't.


And it can be argued that Zonakin and Mortakin are the same.

actually it can't be.. ZONEANAKIN was him just letting go of some mental blocks.. pulling out all the stops... using some of his anger and rage and fear to increase is power. THAT IS WORLDS APART.. from being at a SPECIFIC LOCATION WHICH GAVE HIM A ULTRA POWERFUL BOOST in power. How the **** can you think those things are the same? You honestly can't be this dumb. One took an external amp and other variables in place in order for him to pull it off. ANother ddn't take an external amp but was just anakin simply using some of the emotions he tried to normal block free and not hold back. It's really amaxing that you even claim they are the same. zoneanakin and mortis anakin aren't the same person. I asked for example of zonanakin using TK to crush somebody on the level of Yoda or Mace... how woudl citing Mortis anakin be what I was asking about in this thread/

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
actually it can't be.. ZONEANAKIN was him just letting go of some mental blocks.. pulling out all the stops... using some of his anger and rage and fear to increase is power. THAT IS WORLDS APART.. from being at a SPECIFIC LOCATION WHICH GAVE HIM A ULTRA POWERFUL BOOST in power.


I'll quote Tempest, because I'm too lazy to explain it to you:


Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not sure we should distinguish Zownakin from Mortakin. Based on Stover's fluffy descriptions, they seem comparable.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
All the fluff about Dooku being dead already the second Anakin utilizes his power, the Count's skills, experience, and power being a total joke to Anakin at this point, etc. and so forth.

That kind of dominance over one of the strongest Sith Lords ever is pretty rare.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But the Son and the Daughter had the same power to draw on and couldn't stop him. There's no reason to believe Mortis is necessary for Anakin to wield that power, else his peerless potential and the Father's confirmed station by Leland Chee wouldn't really apply if Mortis is really the crux to it all.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yes, but the Anchorites are drawing on the same power. For Anakin to still overcome them both when all three draw on the same energy source means his advantage must be internal. Which is why The Father has selected him and him alone as a replacement rather than any Force using schmuck who can harness a Force nexus.



Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How the **** can you think those things are the same? You honestly can't be this dumb.

lol. Says the guy who said this to me:

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I believe you need to read the forum rules before you further make an ass out of yourself.

I'll ask you again.. Did anakin have an external amp to draw upon for the Mortis feat that he didn't have in the Dooku feat?

Do you need me to post all that again? Because clearly you're just ignoring it.

EDIT - oops, wrong thread.

The Emperor effortlessly defeated 4 Jedi in Dark Times: A Spark Returns

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'll ask you again.. Did anakin have an external amp to draw upon for the Mortis feat that he didn't have in the Dooku feat?

Yes.

I agree, that Zonakin and Mortakin are very similar. Mortakin is far more powerful because of Mortis'. But everybody is more powerful on Mortis, I guess. It's logical.
So Mortakin = Zonakin on Mortis.
Mortakin is able to humiliate Son and Daughter. Both of them are able to humiliate people on Kenobi's level.
So Mortakin >> Son and Daughter - it's not even a fight, he just force them to kneel before him.
Son/Doughter >> Kenobi.
So Mortakin >>>> Kenobi (smth like that).

Dooku also >> Kenobi. It's about two leagues between them in the force.
And Dooku's powers were turn into joke against Zonakin.

Originally posted by Petrus
Do you need me to post all that again? Because clearly you're just ignoring it.

He's just plain trolling now. I'm done owning him on this thread.


Originally posted by Zett
I agree, that Zonakin and Mortakin are very similar. Mortakin is far more powerful because of Mortis'. But everybody is more powerful on Mortis, I guess. It's logical.
So Mortakin = Zonakin on Mortis.
Mortakin is able to humiliate Son and Daughter. Both of them are able to humiliate people on Kenobi's level.
So Mortakin >> Son and Daughter - it's not even a fight, he just force them to kneel before him.
Son/Doughter >> Kenobi.
So Mortakin >>>> Kenobi (smth like that).

Dooku also >> Kenobi. It's about two leagues between them in the force.
And Dooku's powers were turn into joke against Zonakin.

Three. And they were no-name Jedi who, according to Sahdett, were beaten and starved before their audience with His Imperial Majesty.

Still cool, but better was Sahdett's wanking of him.

Originally posted by Zett
I agree, that Zonakin and Mortakin are very similar. Mortakin is far more powerful because of Mortis'. But everybody is more powerful on Mortis, I guess. It's logical.
So Mortakin = Zonakin on Mortis.
Mortakin is able to humiliate Son and Daughter. Both of them are able to humiliate people on Kenobi's level.
So Mortakin >> Son and Daughter - it's not even a fight, he just force them to kneel before him.
Son/Doughter >> Kenobi.
So Mortakin >>>> Kenobi (smth like that).

Dooku also >> Kenobi. It's about two leagues between them in the force.
And Dooku's powers were turn into joke against Zonakin.

Similar and the same AREN'T the same thing. One took place in a place where Anakin received a BIG amp. His fight with Dooku took place in no environment where Anakin got an amp. Anakin didn't own Dooku with the force he beat him in a lightsaber fight... To say nothing of the fact that for all the talk of stover and his fluff to dooku.. why are people ignoring that Dooku depleted VITAL force reserves just fighting off Kenobi and Anakin? Stover also mentions this. Why are people ignoring the fact that Anakin style was dishing out major damage for dooku to even just block them. Something also mentioned by stover. Why are people ignoring that it was stated that Dooku underestimated Anakin. All those things plus anakin getting into the zone and using emotions he doesn't typical use explain why he won. MortisAnakin and Zoneanakin aren't the same. One got an external amp and the other didn't. This is plain as day

DP you're beyond so stupid something. I asked for an example that applies to Zoneanakin.. MortisAnakin has never been confused with Zoneanakin EVER. Now Tempest is trying to claim they are one in the same.. this is a recent theory of is that you didn't even stand behind till now. Show me anyplace in this thread where I said the fight takes place on Mortis.. If I did.. you could cite that as an example... since I didn't how the **** is that a viable example you nitwit? I mean seriously this is getting beyond stupid. Funny how you didn't quote my boxing analogy which is example what you did here.

Give me an example of Jack Johnson losing in his prime to a whtie HW in under 20 rounds... Your answer jess Willard... Ohhh wait... Johnson was 37 and past his prime... and lost after the 20 round.... That is exactly what you did here and claim that was owning LOL.

The external amp is irrelevant... When the people he was owning had the same power to draw upon.

But don't they have the Mortis amp all the time? Having it for them is their base state. The reason they're so powerful could be because they're tied to it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The external amp is irrelevant... When the people he was owning had the same power to draw upon.

Actually it's not though...

he isn't fighting the son and daughter on Mortis and thus it's same for both. He's ISN'T ON MORTIS AT ALL.. thus he has no amp. I have never claimed that he got an amp and they didn't.. it's just irrelevant to normal Anakin nor a zonanakin using his emotions. The amp isn't there for either. I'm not sure how this is unclear. It would be like the following example...

Hulk gets a big amp fighting on a planet that is constantly feeding him gamma radiation.. and constantly feeding him images of betty being killed and he goes super saiyan and kills two being who are gamma radiation gods on teh planet..

Then...

You try and apply that same hulk fighting Thor on planet earth with nothing amping him except his normal anger.. except his fighting a thor extra pissed of and more pissed of than usual.

That is what you're donig here.. you're trying to make Anakin get an amp that doesn't exist in this thread.. nor did it exist when he beat dooku and just claim some ambigious claim that the power is always his.. If that were try you'd have to prove it. You'd have to show examples of Anakin going that saiyan mode again and not having Mortis have anything to do with it. Problem is, you and I both know that doesn't exist. Thus, that is an unproven theory. To say nothing of the fact that it wasn't just internal.. it was an external amp. Those aren't mutual inclusive to anakin. One was anakin using an external amp and molding and shaping it to become ever more powerful. The other was anakin letting go of some emotions to become an even more deadly fighter. Not near the same.