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This is Sith Sora Bulq. They fight on Nelvaan (the planet that Anakin and Kenobi had to free from the Technounion during the mini series).

1.Sabers
2.Force
3.All-Out

Obi-Wan, doubtlessly. He's more skilled, and more cunning. Likelyhood is after a short, but fierce duel, Sora's going to jump at Kenobi with no defenses up in a mad rage, and end up cut in two.

My general view is, if you're from that era, and your name isn't Palpatine, Windu, Yoda, or Dooku, you're going to lose to RotS Kenobi.

Anakin?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Anakin?

That one actually happened.

Originally posted by Q99
That one actually happened.

You seem to be suggesting Anakin would always lose to ROTS Kenobi. That was only mind phucked Sith Anakin who lost to Kenobi after a pretty damn long and even fight.

The fact is Jedi Skywalker is a much more powerful combatant than Kenobi, a peer to Count Dooku in fact.

Btw TCW Maul has never outright been defeated by late CW Kenobi. In fact I'm not even sure Ventress has and their last fight had Ventress seriously embarrassing Kenobi. Although you could argue their last fight was Early-Mid CW(not including Obsession).

As for Bulq given the fight he put up against Mace, I don't see Kenobi stomping him by a long shot. He knows Vapaad, he's a master of every form I believe. He can hold his own against Mace for a short time. He has a lot going for him. (But then so does Kenobi).

Yeah, Kenobi takes it after a cruel battle.

I'm going with Bulq. Master of multiple forms, peer of Windu, and I distinctly remember the old website proclaiming him to be one of the finest duelists in the history of the Jedi order.

Just posting this in defense of Bulq.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Sora%20Bulq/Bulq_zps775f3f94.png

Sounds about right. Thanks.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You seem to be suggesting Anakin would always lose to ROTS Kenobi. That was only mind phucked Sith Anakin who lost to Kenobi after a pretty damn long and even fight.
Evidence of "mind phucked" claim?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sora's going to jump at Kenobi with no defenses up in a mad rage, and end up cut in two.


Yeah...except that didint happen against Windu...

Im leaning towards Bulq. He held his own Vs Windu before losing, was a master of all 7forms of lightsaber combat, was the leader of Dookus acolytes (chosen over Ventress and Tol Skorr etc meaning Bulq>Ventress), PWNED Tholme and Quinlan Vos, and was one of the greatest lightsaber instructors in the history of the order.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You seem to be suggesting Anakin would always lose to ROTS Kenobi. That was only mind phucked Sith Anakin who lost to Kenobi after a pretty damn long and even fight.


He fought just fine and beat some of the strongest of the order, including Cin Drallig and Shaak Ti soon after each other (and shortly after the Obi-wan fight he got handicapped and *still* beat groups of Jedi Masters)- I think at *least* as much of that win has to be credited to Kenobi being more serious and focused than ever before than whatever was going on in Anakin's head, because Sith Anakin still rolled everyone else he went up against, he was *not* that disadvantaged.





No, but their last battle involved Kenobi doing well against Maul and Opress at the same time.

Kenobi

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Evidence of "mind phucked" claim?

I believe it's Rise of Darth Vader which states he was "between worlds" at that time. And Lucas states him having regrets in the ROTS commentray. Plus you know, him crying when mudering the sepratists. I don't remember Palpatine crying or having regrets when he murdered Fisto/Tiin/Kolar and Mace.


Originally posted by Q99
He fought just fine and beat some of the strongest of the order, including Cin Drallig and Shaak Ti soon after each other (and shortly after the Obi-wan fight he got handicapped and *still* beat groups of Jedi Masters)- I think at *least* as much of that win has to be credited to Kenobi being more serious and focused than ever before than whatever was going on in Anakin's head, because Sith Anakin still rolled everyone else he went up against, he was *not* that disadvantaged.





No, but their last battle involved Kenobi doing well against Maul and Opress at the same time.


I agree beating Sith Anakin and holding his own against Maul/Opress were both great feats for Kenobi. Awesome feats in fact.

I just disagree with your assessment that he will beat anyone whose not Yoda, Sids, Dooku or Mace.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

I agree beating Sith Anakin and holding his own against Maul/Opress were both great feats for Kenobi. Awesome feats in fact.

I just disagree with your assessment that he will beat anyone whose not Yoda, Sids, Dooku or Mace.

Well, I don't think anyone who's not Yoda, Sids, Dooku, or Mace in the CWs could reproduce those feats.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, I don't think anyone who's not Yoda, Sids, Dooku, or Mace in the CWs could reproduce those feats.

So you don't think Skywalker can defeat Kenobi? Really? It's Kenobi who can not hope to reproduce Skywalker's feat of defeating Dooku.

As for the holding off Maul and Opress, Ventress has done that before against Skywalker and Kenobi. She even had Kenobi defeated(via KO) at one point while fighting off Skywalker. Opress has also taken on and force waved Kenobi and Skywalker around..
This despite Skywalker being much more powerful than Maul or Opress.

And I doubt it would be beyond Maul wielding Jar Kai to engage both Kenobi and say Ventress and possibly defeat Ventress in the process. Especially if it's a peak performance for him, like it clearly was for Kenobi.

Anakin fought Kenobi and lost. Skywalker may be able to win, but Kenobi had his number, and his performance before and after shows he was not particularly crippled by falling to the dark side.



Perhaps, but Kenobi beat the guy who solidly beat Dooku.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I believe it's Rise of Darth Vader which states he was "between worlds" at that time. And Lucas states him having regrets in the ROTS commentray. Plus you know, him crying when mudering the sepratists. I don't remember Palpatine crying or having regrets when he murdered Fisto/Tiin/Kolar and Mace.
Can you mention quotes?

Vader may have been conflicted for a while after betraying the Jedi but his reaction to Obi-Wan and Padme suggests that he had finally come to terms with his dark side alignment.

SWTUVG affirms that Vader was hell-bent on attempting to kill Obi-Wan. The latter won after emotionally detaching from the former.

Originally posted by Q99
Anakin fought Kenobi and lost. Skywalker may be able to win, but Kenobi had his number, and his performance before and after shows he was not particularly crippled by falling to the dark side.

He stalemated Skywalker in a force push. Dooku owned Kenobi with the Force so hard it was ridiculous. So clearly the Anakin who stalemated Kenobi in the Force was not operating on the same level as when he made Dooku's force powers "useless."



Originally posted by Q99
Perhaps, but Kenobi beat the guy who solidly beat Dooku.

There's no perhaps about it. Kenobi could not ever hope to match Dooku even on his best day. The stomping he received from the Count was just too severe.

Skywalker solidly beating Dooku really puts him leagues above Kenobi.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He stalemated Skywalker in a force push. Dooku owned Kenobi with the Force so hard it was ridiculous. So clearly the Anakin who stalemated Kenobi in the Force was not operating on the same level as when he made Dooku's force powers "useless."



Or, alternatively, he caught Kenobi off guard/Kenobi was more focused and serious against Anakin.





The same Skywalker who was so solidly beaten by Kenobi he lost a whole bunch of limbs?

I don't think that's what 'leagues' means.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Can you mention quotes?

I don't have the quote so hopefully someone else can provide it. Not sure if it's Rise of Darth Vader or the Death Star series. But Palpatine tells Vader he was between worlds at that time, which he clearly was.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vader may have been conflicted for a while after betraying the Jedi but his reaction to Obi-Wan and Padme suggests that he had finally come to terms with his dark side alignment.

That was right after he was crying. It would be silly to think he suddenly completely accepted the Dark Side with the right mind set after choking his wife, then ranting on to Kenobi about it being his fault.

No his whole turn was to save Padme. He only fully embraced the Dark Side with all it's fury and without a concious after Padme died.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
SWTUVG affirms that Vader was hell-bent on attempting to kill Obi-Wan. The latter won after emotionally detaching from the former.

But it doesn't confirm Vader was in the right mind set to defeat Kenobi.

Fact is Skywalker wasn't operating on the same level where he could make Dooku's knowledge of the Force "Useless."

Kenobi is not above Dooku in any way. If Dooku couldn't handle Skywalker, then there's no way Kenobi could have handled him at that stage.

Originally posted by Q99
Or, alternatively, he caught Kenobi off guard/Kenobi was more focused and serious against Anakin.

If Kenobi's caught "off-guard" by Dooku when Dooku is the one whose outnumbered, then clearly it was because Dooku was simply outfighting him. Which The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader confirms.

Where do you get that Kenobi wasn't serious or focused against Dooku. The dialogue leading up to the fight suggest the exact opposite.



Originally posted by Q99
The same Skywalker who was so solidly beaten by Kenobi he lost a whole bunch of limbs?

I don't think that's what 'leagues' means.

So clearly the only explanation is that Skywalker who wasn't properly focused, and not in the right mind set against Kenobi.

The fact that he could only stalemate Kenobi in a Force Push outright Proves he would not have made Dooku's Knowledge of the Force "Useless" at that point in time.

Well, both Kenobi and Bulq are equal with a force. They both have quite strong force push (Kenobi showed it egainst Anakin, and Bulq against Windu), and terrible force's guard (Dooku defeated them both quite easily with the force, and Windu took advantage over Sora becasue of that).
As a swordmasters, they both can fight equally with enemies stronger then themselves (Kenobi vs Anakin, and Bulq vs Windu).
After all I bet Kenobi as a winner. I believe that his Soresu might be a nice counter against Bulq's Vaapad.

In regards to Kenobi vs. Anakin...


It's pretty clear Anakin was not in any way fighting to his full potential. Darth Power has provided enough evidence to accept this as fact, and we can also logically assume this is the case mainly because Anakin by that time was well above Dooku , who in turn was Kenobi's clear superior.


Of course, we can't always use A>B>C logic in the SW universe, but Dooku defeats Kenobi handily each and every time they fight. It's obvious that Kenobi is not nearly on the Count's level, which means Anakin simply wasn't focused and had too much going on in his mind at the time of their fight. A crystal-clear minded Anakin would've defeated his former mentor.


EDIT - Also, the fact that Anakin had previously defeated a good amount of Jedi , doesn't necessarily indicate he was in the same state of mind as he was in his fight against Kenobi. After all, he was crying because he had murdered the Separatists and fought Kenobi after thinking his wife betrayed him, choked her and saw him take shots at him. Really, if anything, he was even more confused and unstable than he was when he attacked the Jedi Temple.

^
Was it addresed to me? If it was, then I have to assure you, that my opinion about Anakin's state of mind during duel with Kenobi is the same as Darth Power's.

But despite his mind state, he was still superior to Kenobi in raw power in the force, so Kenobi had TIE with much stronger enemy. But yeah, against Anakin with clear mind, he would have not any chances in a force fight.

Kenobi will defeat Bulq in a hard battle imo. Now Bulq vs. Maul would be very very very interesting.

^ Don't really see how Maul's any less lethal than Kenobi in an all out tbh. Kenobi may have the edge in fencing skill, but Maul seems to have the power advantage for sure.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ Don't really see how Maul's any less lethal than Kenobi in an all out tbh. Kenobi may have the edge in fencing skill, but Maul seems to have the power advantage for sure.

Power advantage is pretty meaningless when Kenobi defeated perhaps the most acclaimed master of Djem So in history. It was circumstantial, but even mind ****ed I doubt Anakin's blows were that much less strong. Also Bulq's Vaapad would let him fare much better against Maul who's rage will prove to his advantage.

^
Well, hard to tell. When Maul fought Kenobi along with Savage, he was able to TK and push Kenobi onto wall (quite similar to Windu's push against Bulq).
In Sith Hunters Maul was able to defeat Kenobi by TK attack.
And in my opinion, Kenobi and Bulq have similar force powers (during battle ofc).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If Kenobi's caught "off-guard" by Dooku when Dooku is the one whose outnumbered, then clearly it was because Dooku was simply outfighting him. Which The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader confirms.

Where do you get that Kenobi wasn't serious or focused against Dooku. The dialogue leading up to the fight suggest the exact opposite.


But Anakin was far more personal and he showed far more emotions. And we've seen other occasions where Kenobi + Anakin actually don't perform as well as each separately, instead each being fairly cautious (like the early Opress fight).


In terms of results, we've got a rock-paper-scissors thing going on. If you've got RPS, that simply doesn't translate into 'leagues better.' More like, Dooku's style matches up well against Kenobi's in addition to a small overall advantage. While Kenobi's matches up well against Anakin's or Maul's.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also Bulq's Vaapad would let him fare much better against Maul who's rage will prove to his advantage.

Oh yeah, I didn't think about Vapaad vs Darksiders.


Originally posted by Zett
^

In Sith Hunters Maul was able to defeat Kenobi by TK attack.


He didn't just defeat him. He outright stomped him. But tbf they were in a place strong in the Dark Side.

I doubt Maul is Mace's equal in the Force, considering how easily Sidious tossed him around. Didn't seem like he could toss Mace around that easily.


Originally posted by Q99



In terms of results, we've got a rock-paper-scissors thing going on. If you've got RPS, that simply doesn't translate into 'leagues better.' More like, Dooku's style matches up well against Kenobi's in addition to a small overall advantage. While Kenobi's matches up well against Anakin's or Maul's.


If they were all good fights then it could have just been a rock/paper/scissors thing.

But Kenobi vs Dooku wasn't even close to being a good/close fight. Also Sith Anakin and Kenobi were so equal in Sabers as well as the Force, I just don't see why Dooku would have any more trouble against that Sith Anakin than he did against Kenobi.

^
Yeah, Mace is greater then Maul as a force user. It looks like he has much better guard in the force (some protects etc), he has shatterpoint. But in pure TK, I'm not so sure.
And Bulq doesn't impress me at this point. Like Kenobi, he's just a free frag for a strong force users. Mace did a nice force push against him (well, push is in fact a part of TK). His Vaapad didn't help him against Dooku's lightning (maybe it was some kind of combo TK+lightning like against Anakin in AOTC? I have no idea, but it might be some excuse for Bulq).

So, I believe that Maul would be able to catch Bulq off-guard with his TK and defeat him.