Exar Kun vs Darth Vader

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XRKun
Sabers
Force
All Out

Vader gets beaten in all out and sabers, but in Force he just TKs Kun all over the place.

Intrepid37
Same as the Dooku thread.

msparks92817
Yup. Kun stomps.

Intrepid37
Vader roflstomps. Not even close.

XRKun
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Vader roflstomps. Not even close.

In sabers? Please.

In all out? No. It will be close though.

In Force? yes. Vader does take it, but I dont think its a LOLOLOLstomp.

msparks92817
Not sure at what part Vader stomps at or even has a valid chance, other than sabers probably. Kun wins pretty comfortably.

Intrepid37
That's a very well thought out argument.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vader, because his TK has been shown to be uber-boss, and his lightsaber skills are also very impressive, don't know where you peple get "lol his saber skills are garbage!" Kun won't beat vader easily in sabers, and he'll get simply outclassed in the force. All out, vader, because Kun's arsenal isn't the best to fight vader with.

Nephthys
I'm also not seeing how Kun is outclassed in the Force.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
how isn't he? isn't the only thing he has is amulet blasts, while vader has the TK ability to collapse cathedrals/buildings/force grip a being as strong as galen marek?

ROTJ Vader
Kun all 3.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
how so?

msparks92817
Good point!

Intrepid37
What one? They're all very good.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by msparks92817
Yup. Kun stomps.

Your Old Republic bias is blinding in its intensity.

msparks92817
It was in response to the PT bias. There needs to be a balance. Interesting how you conveniently ignored the PT biassmile

The_Tempest
Originally posted by msparks92817
It was in response to the PT bias. There needs to be a balance. Interesting how you conveniently ignored the PT biassmile

Kinda like you conveniently ignore the unparalleled stupidity of LeGenD? smile

You called out Intrepid, I'm calling you out. And since I haven't opined one way or another on this one, no one can call me out.

I win.

msparks92817
I can't see what Legend writes, hence why I never respond to him. So I called exposed someone's PT bias and you called me out for exposing someone's PT bias, thereby exposing your own PT bias. Looks like I win.

S_W_LeGenD
Unparalleled stupidity?

Superiority complex of OP is baffling. He thinks he knows it all and is in the position to judge others. Ironic.

Superior wannabees.

Nephthys
Legend very much is paralleled in stupidity. Ragnosfan is way dumber imo.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes, legend at least has some form of common sense, and at least attempts to back up his ideas.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by msparks92817
I can't see what Legend writes, hence why I never respond to him. So I called exposed someone's PT bias and you called me out for exposing someone's PT bias, thereby exposing your own PT bias. Looks like I win.

lolwut?

I called you out for your own bias, not for calling out Intrepid's. And since I haven't said either way who wins, I can't be called out for any bias.

I win smile

Funny how you ignore Legend's posts but not Intrepid. I guess Legend really is dumber.

msparks92817
I put Intrepid on ignore as well, or did you miss that part?smile

The_Tempest
Originally posted by msparks92817
I put Intrepid on ignore as well, or did you miss that part?smile

Nope, I didn't miss it. I get a text message from KMC every time you add or subtract to your Ignore List.




That was sarcasm, I actually don't. smile

The Merchant
Vader takes this. All Kun really has is his blasts, but really Vader has done much more impressive things with simple force pushes and TK. Vader also has made his own personal Djem So, which is like a union of all the saber forms. He stalemated Maul Doppleganger, who was the best Double bladed duelist, at least on par with Kun. And that was before his prime.

Astor Ebligis
Exar Kun freezing the senate and draining the Massassi race shits over anything Vader's ever done with The Force, in sheer scale at least.

The Merchant
Both were used via Sith magic, which isn't using one's power. It's basically calling the will of the Dark side on whatever you desire, and then call out an incantation which will cause a chain reaction on what you desire. Freezing the senate didn't freeze the Jedi there, and that ritual with the Massassi took tons of prep, and both aren't usable in combat from what we've seen. Vader has thrown around V-wings, blasted through stone walls and blast doors, tanked bombs exploding on him at point-blank range, bringing down a cathedral unto himself and surviving it, and lifting huge droids and pretty much crushing them. And in one comic was outside of an Imperial star destroyer and deflected turbolaser fire from TIE fighters casually.

msparks92817
Wait, sith magic isn't using one's power? What kind of awful rationalization is that? Vader really has nothing impressive enough that could take down a powerhouse like Kun.

The Merchant
No it isn't. It uses incantations to summon the dark side into an area or object. Meaning Keto if she tried to use a direct force power like lightning wouldn't turn people into skeletons, that's stuff like Sidious and Vitiate level. And Vader has loads more impressive feats than Kun, all Kun has is blasting through the Massassi temple, while Vader brought down a whole cathedral.

Nephthys
Originally posted by The Merchant
Both were used via Sith magic, which isn't using one's power.

Um, proof of that? In RoT Zannah uses sorcery to shatter a womans mind and she says the spell is exhausting, definitely indicating magic draws on the users power the same as any other Force attack.

The Merchant
Sith Magic makes people explode stars, summon tendrils that can vaporize any forms of matter, etc. It's exhausting on ones mental state, not their own force reserves. That's the reason why Aleema made 10 stars go Supernova, since she didn't finish the spell until it killed her. Unless Zannah can with her lightning vaporize matter like she can with her tendrils.

Nephthys
She vaporised her cousins arm at the start of RoT.

I'm still not seeing proof.

msparks92817
And Bane says Sith Magic is the ultimate skill and power of the darkside. So using your logic, anyone who is a master of sith magic is a powerhouse.

SIDIOUS 66
How exactly does Kun win? Inventing his own saber style? Well Vader practically did the same thing. Through his amulet blasts? Doubt it, as Vader has easily dodged/evaded blaster bolts, so unless someone can prove that Kun's blasts travel faster than blaster bolts, then I don't see how this is an automatic win for Kun. Besides, Vader can tank an awful amount of damage.

Force seems to be in Vader's favor considering his destructive TK feats. The only thing Kun has on Vader is his sorcery, but I've yet to see anyone explain how Kun wins through sorcery.

My post is for someone other than mikequeer. I don't feel like going back and forth with an idiot who argues stuff like "nuh uh Kun's powerful, he'd stomp Vader. You're a PT fanboy, and I destroyed your arguments. nuh uh I know you are but what am I?"

msparks92817
That's ok, we're all aware of your continued stupidity and that is why most people gloss over your posts, but thanks for amusing us on this rather boring Saturday night.

Also, please continue the entertainment by telling us how exactly Vader wins. Probably should be better than "LOLZ Vader destructive TK feats!"

The_Tempest
Sidious provided reasons, not evidence. That's still a great deal more than you've brought to the table other than rabid bias.

msparks92817
Saying 'The only thing Kun has on Vader is his sorcery, but I've yet to see anyone explain how Kun wins through sorcery.' Does not indicate a reason or a rationalization, but your continued responses to me and nobody else shows your bias as well.

Q99
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
How exactly does Kun win? Inventing his own saber style? Well Vader practically did the same thing. Through his amulet blasts? Doubt it, as Vader has easily dodged/evaded blaster bolts, so unless someone can prove that Kun's blasts travel faster than blaster bolts, then I don't see how this is an automatic win for Kun. Besides, Vader can tank an awful amount of damage.

Force seems to be in Vader's favor considering his destructive TK feats. The only thing Kun has on Vader is his sorcery, but I've yet to see anyone explain how Kun wins through sorcery.

Exar did freeze the senate with the force, which was pretty impressive. And he's got better aim than most blaster users- it's not just about the speed of the bolt, so much as him having strong force precog. It's not a sure win but it certainly helps.


And aside from inventing his saber style, he is the best saber monkey of the time frame. There were 2~3 other people who were capable of giving him a challenge, but his performance was very high. His master was one of the most renouned duelists of the time and Exar beat him twice (the first time only once he had two sabers, but still).



That all said... I think he's a tough challenge, even a legit threat who has a chance on a good day, but I do think Vader holds the advantage and'll probably win.

The_Tempest
He asserted that Vader wins due to comparable swordsmanship and generally superior Force powers. Not evidence, but at least a reason.

All you've offered are a bunch of knee jerk reactions, hissing and frothing at anyone who would dare claim Vader would win.

As far as me calling you out goes, I'm treating you like you're treating everyone else. At least I'm courteous to leave out insults.

But it's time to prove up or shut up.

Nephthys
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Through his amulet blasts? Doubt it, as Vader has easily dodged/evaded blaster bolts, so unless someone can prove that Kun's blasts travel faster than blaster bolts, then I don't see how this is an automatic win for Kun.

The blasts are quite a bit larger than a blaster bolt and its different dodging shots from non-force sensitives to trying to dodge an attack from an extremely powerful Sith Lord when the Force guides his aim and his reflexes are increased dramatically.

I seriously don't see Vader dodging them. And if he does not for long. He's too cumbersome.

Q99
On why I think Vader would win, he's one of the very best from an era known for producing very good lightsaber users (most of whom he's fought). Sure, Exar's the best of his time... but his time is known for it's fancy force powers, with multiple of the most famous masters of the time preferring to rely heavily on the force (Of Thon, Arca Jeth, and Vodo, the three big names of the teacher, only Vodo spent a lot of time advocating dueling skills. He, unsurprisingly, produced Exar and Sylvar, two of the better duelists around). So I wouldn't expect the saber level to be quite as competitive.

Unlike the force arena, where the early KotoR era is very competitive. Exar's force power is strong and varied, but Vader's got energy absorption, tk, and general good force defense. Exar having more offense and a wider range of skills probably isn't going to be telling, especially as Exar's still a saber user at heart who settles his big conflicts- vs Vodo and vs Ulic, with duels.

Or in other words, the match plays to Vader's strength a bit more. Sabers is more likely to decide it, and that's where Vader has the edge.

SIDIOUS 66
Neph & Q99, Darth Vader evaded a blasterbolt from a blaster that was targeted at him at point black range just by jumping, which happened in one of the Empire comics. So he didn't evade it because of poor aiming from his opponent, but because of Vader's speed. I'm not sure how the size of Exar's blasts would make up for the difference for the speed in which Vader was able to evade the bolt, unless you can prove that the blast's traveling speed is faster. Also, Kun's freezing technique didn't work on the jedi he confronted, so I doubt it would work on Vader.

@Tempest, all one needs to do is search for the Krayt vs Dooku thread here on KMC to see how well mikequeer does in debating: "Krayt owns Dooku in the force because he once sent a message across the galaxy." lol. But I guess he does try. lmao

SIDIOUS 66
You know what, you guys are right, Vader would have a one up on a non force user because of his precognition, being able to anticipate it before it happens, which is something he wouldn't have on Kun. But IIRC, Vader didn't jump until the blaster was already fired, so it was still mainly speed.

Q99
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

@Tempest, all one needs to do is search for the Krayt vs Dooku thread here on KMC to see how well mikequeer does in debating: "Krayt owns Dooku in the force because he once sent a message across the galaxy." lol. But I guess he does try. lmao

Krayt does have a lot more going for him than that...

SIDIOUS 66
Oh, I know. But when I asked mikequeer how would Krayt stomp Dooku in the force, that was the first power he listed along with resurrection, which aren't combat feats.

Taay'hai
DARTH VADER, THE GREATER DARK LORD OF THE SITH THAN THE PROCLAIMED GREATEST DARK LORD OF THE SITH.

He obviously wins. If Palpatine wanted something better he would have found his own Starkiller and turned it into an Exar Kun like from the beginning

msparks92817
For someone completely incapable of logical discourse, you sure are obsessed with me. You need to stop crying. And yes, go look at that krayt dooku thread. Your self pwnage is impressive. But Dooku wins because he's celebrated rofl

SIDIOUS 66
The funny thing is, I never said anything about Dooku being celebrated, but you actually did use Krayt's galactic message as a way to try to argue that he would own Dooku with the force. I can post the link later if you like.

Obsessed, how? I just find your posts amusing, and I think of you as one of the forum's jokes. This whole back and forth between you and I started from you, and then it eventually ended with me leaving your ass whimpering because I got "personal" with you. But here you are again lol.

msparks92817
Really? You left me whimpering? Whats amusing is your personal take on reality. Coupled with your stupidity, I cant imagine me being a bigger forum joke than you. Nothing you post has ever been taken seriously.

SIDIOUS 66
I can also post the link to the thread where I left your ass whimpering, if I can find it. Basically you considered your own wife as an insult, remember now? lol

It got to the point to where you were almost asking Tempest for a tissue.

Nephthys
jesus just bone already

SIDIOUS 66
Na, he only gets wet for Krayt, Vitiate and Revan.

Intrepid37
Seems msparks has his yearly verbal menstruation right now.

msparks92817
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I can also post the link to the thread where I left your ass whimpering, if I can find it. Basically you considered your own wife as an insult, remember now? lol

It got to the point to where you were almost asking Tempest for a tissue. oh the thread where I made you my ***** to the point where you started talking about my wife? Yea I remember.

SIDIOUS 66
I'll post the links maybe later tonight or tomorrow.

BTW, I think Law and Order is on.

msparks92817
Your mind is unable to comprehend when you're being baited, or what "law and order" is. The fact that you need to post proof of you insulting my wife (which only proves your mind is incapable of handling mental rape to the point where you have to bring a spouse into the equation to make yourself feel better), says all we need to understand about your mental faculties.

Intrepid37
Internet's tough guy's got a wife.

Nice.

SIDIOUS 66
Except I never insulted your wife. Barely mentioning your wife is insulting her? That's you who considers her as an insult. May I ask why that is?

SIDIOUS 66
@Intrepid, that's what he says.

Q99
This is pointless... anyone wanna move back to Kun and Vader?

Intrepid37
Okay. This is my reasoning for Vader winning:

1. Vader's very underrated in terms of skill. He's fought evenly with ANH Obi-Wan, fought evenly with Starkiller, beaten Roan Shryne and beat multiple Jedi at the same time, all done in ANH/before ANH. Vader gets a massive skill upgrade in between ANH and ESB.

2. Vader's got a huge power advantage, in my opinion. He's collapsed cathedrals, thrown ships, crushed gigantic droids, pulled over huge trees etc, not to mention he's very adapt at using his powers during a fight (Luke, Maul, Starkiller, Shryne comes to mind). He also knows a variety of other powers such as Alter Environment etc.

3. Vader appears to be physically superior. He's crushed ''unbreakable debris'' by smashing it, has produced four afterimages out of his blade, has survived getting buildings crushed on him etc.

4. Judging by the above, Vader seems better by a good margin, in my opinion. He's got better skill feats, is more powerful, stronger and comparably fast.

SIDIOUS 66
Q99, it's already been established that Kun stomps because he's powerful.

Q99
And to elaborate on 'multiple Jedi,' there was an instance where he took on 5 when still fairly new in his armor, and not long after the Conclave at Kessel where he took on eight, including known masters Butler Swan and Tsui Choi, and five of 'em were dead before Clone reinforcements showed up.

I wouldn't say he got a skill upgrade between ANH and Empire- I'd say it's more he didn't have a reason to push himself hard in ANH.

Intrepid37
It's confirmed that he grew massively between ANH and ESB in skill.

Q99
What confirmed it? What was the jump? I mean, his feats strike me as nigh-identical before and after.

Intrepid37
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Darth%20Vader/VaderismorepowerfulinESBthaninANH_zps8bfb3954.png

Q99
What's that from?

if it's a pre-prequel trilogy release, I'm guessing it might've been written without a clear understanding of just how powerful they made him before that point.

Because seriously, if he's supposed to be way more powerful than he was back in the early days, that's Palps/Yoda level. Easy.

Intrepid37
It's from Fightsaber in an Insider issue. Can't remember the number, sorry.

msparks92817
Nobody is questioning Vader's saber mastery. But Kun was the greatest saber duelist of his time, with a technique that is unknown to Vader. If we talk about strength, Kun raised that senator guy over his head with one hand. We have to include sith magic, which Vader is unfamiliar with. We have to include amulet blasts, which make holes in anything they hit. We have to believe that as fast as Vader is, he still has limited mobility because he's mostly a cyborg and the speed edge goes to Kun by default. TK may go to Vader but that's the only thing that does.

Intrepid37
That Kun was the greatest of his time does not mean superiority to Vader as a duelist, especially when the latter has a wealth of greater feats.

msparks92817
I did not say that made him a superior duelist, I just added that as evidence of his skills. The latter does not have greater feats, he has more feats. But again, when you consider Kun is the greatest of his time, his saber skills are unknown to Vader, his strength is comparable, and his speed is comparable if not better, he seems the likely victor in saber duel.

Intrepid37
I disagree. Taking on multiple Jedi and killing over half of them, stalemating ANH Obi-Wan, fighting Starkiller as an equal etc., far before his prime, is better than stalemating Uliq and beating Vodo, in my opinion.

Vader's style is made up of multiple forms, which would be unknown to Kun as well.

Maybe their strength is comparable, but as Vader primary is a Djem So practioner, strength would factor in more than it would for Kun.

Speed should be equal. Both have produced the same amount of afterimages.

msparks92817
ANH Obi-wan has been out of lightsaber practice for, 15+ years? And maybe that is your opinion.

As far as Vader's style, it's a strong style which I doubt would be as unknown to Kun as Kun's style is to Vader.

Speed could not be equal. As fast is Vader is as a cyborg, he doesn't appear to be as fast as Kun.

Intrepid37
Yeah, he had. And if Vader was in his prime then it hadn't been a good feat, but Vader was far off his prime.

And I doubt that Kun would be having any noteworthy advantage.

Sure he does. They've got the exact same speed feats. Kun is more mobile and agile, but he's not faster.

msparks92817
If we agree that speed is inconclusive, the fact that he's more mobile and agile with a form unknown to Vader, should give him the necessary advantage in a saber duel.

Intrepid37
Form advantage is neutral, bro. Vader's comparable and likely superior strength will help him more than Kun's strength will help him, and he can tolerate pain better.

And that's assuming they're equal in skill.

msparks92817
Why is Vader superior in strength?

Nephthys
Uh, because he's a ****ing beast?

Kun lifted a guy with one arm. Whoopdishit. Vader rips apart droids with his bare hands and almost overpowered Marek with his strength. Marek who tosses TIE fighters around.

Intrepid37
Vader shatters unbreakable densecris:

The aluminized densecris shattered into a thousand pieces, struck by the dark side as if by a metal fist. Vader was aware of the "unbreakable" substance splintering and falling, tinkling onto the floor, myriad reflections sparkling in the light as they seemed to move in slow motion.

-Deathstar

Ripping off a steel door:

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Darth%20Vader/2139118-new_picture__122__zps9486a662.jpg

Nephthys
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Vader shatters unbreakable densecris:

The aluminized densecris shattered into a thousand pieces, struck by the dark side as if by a metal fist. Vader was aware of the "unbreakable" substance splintering and falling, tinkling onto the floor, myriad reflections sparkling in the light as they seemed to move in slow motion.

-Deathstar

Dude, he shattered that with the Force, not his actual fists.

Intrepid37
Oh. Well, English is my second language so **** that. sad

When did he tear apart droids by the way?

Nephthys
Really? Damn, you're good. I never even suspected a thing.

Sithisis.

Intrepid37
Dickhead.

That's Anakin, not Vader. Thanks though.

Nephthys
I wasn't being sarcastic. You really are very good. smile

Vader is stronger than Anakin physically.

Intrepid37
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic now. Damn americans!

According to what?

Nephthys
I'm not American, I'm British. haermm

IIRC he has better cybernetics and has the darkside to call upon. He's definitely not weaker.

Intrepid37
Nice. You were sarcastic though?

Okay. Still, ripping off a steel door should be sufficient.

Nephthys
No, I was being sincere. Stop being so paranoid! DX

Intrepid37
Had to look up that word to see what it meant. smile

Good to know though.

Ragnosfan1998
Originally posted by Nephthys
Legend very much is paralleled in stupidity. Ragnosfan is way dumber imo.

So im dumb for stating FACTS on StarWars?.

yeah...I think we know who the REAL IDIOT IS!.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Actually, Neph is a well respected person on these forums, while you are shunned and reviled for your trolling/stupidity.

Intrepid37
Well respected lol

ares834
Nah, I'd say he is. He makes well structured arguments even if I often don't agree with them.

XRKun
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Actually, Neph is a well respected person on these forums, while you are shunned and reviled for your trolling/stupidity.

Nuff said. Even if I don't agree with his arguments sometimes, he does piece things really well.

Nephthys
Thanks guys. >:]

Intrepid I take back my compliment. You're a dummy and I hate you. >:Originally posted by Ragnosfan1998
So im dumb for stating FACTS on StarWars?.

yeah...I think we know who the REAL IDIOT IS!.

No, you're dumb for ignoring facts and screeching complete bullshit. How you haven't been banned yet is beyond me.

Indeed. It's still you.

Intrepid37
What compliment?

Nephthys
I said your English was very good.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
jesus just bone already

Says the guy who always conveniently has a headache as coitus prepares to strike.

msparks92817
Dude..Just stop

The_Tempest
BTW, I appreciated the debate with Sidious, DS. Good to see you still have it in you, even though you're a shell of a man domesticated and leashed by his wife.

msparks92817
What debate? I didn't debate with anyone but Intrepid. And only because I had 4 cups of coffee. It's really hard to get "into" it after all these years. But occasionally it does happen.

The Merchant
Destroying some poor kids hand who wasn't killed by the Thought Bomb because he was too weak in the force isn't the same thing as conjuring up Dark Side Tendrils capable of vaporizing all forms of matter and Bane level opponents. People like King Ommin can use Sith Magic to perform planetary level feats, yet when Ulic came out of nowhere was pretty much owned. It was made clear he needs prep to take down his enemies. Unless Ommin is around Sidious's and Vitiate's level.

And yes, I know Bane said that about Sith Magic, and he's partially true. Sith Magic can allow you to make stars explode and tendrils that can vaporize anything. It basically allows the Dark Side to go full out. But you'd need to have a spell or incantation to do it first. However, it isn't purely raw power, unless you think Zannah has more power than Bane does.

NewGuy01
I don't know about "power", but Zannah is stronger than Bane by the end of DoE.

The Merchant
I know that, whenever they become Dark Lords the Banite Sith seem to get a boost of power. But during the fight, no Bane had more raw power, Zannah had more versatility with her magic.

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