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This is such a conspiracy that Darth Power has made.

I let other members decide this.

So what's more impressive, beating Dooku who was out of Anakin's league, or beating Sidious who was out of Windu's league, both by virtue of being in a certain mindset.

Zonakin stomp.

Zonakin would utterly own windu.

I just realized these were in the wrong forum.

Lol.

If I were only interested in opinion I would have made a poll. Please explain. Anakin Skywalker beating Mace Windu is a hard pill to swallow. I've actually argued for Anakin in the past, but then I read ROTS. I don't mind being corrected, I'm very open-minded, I just feel DP hasn't given me enough to cement Anakin as a superior combatant to Windu simply because he beat Dooku, who does not have Vapaad and does not possess the Shatterpoint ability.

Through Vapaad, Windu feeds off of the intensity of his opponent, and is able to go as far as Sidious' power level, which is greater than Zonakin's, and on even grounds with Sidious in particular is shatterpoint allowed him to knock the lightsaber out of the "greatest Sith's" hands. This is why my conclusion is that Windu spanks Zonakin.

Because Zonakin has made Dooku a "complete joke", who's at the very least on-par with Windu.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Because Zonakin has made Dooku a "complete joke", who's at the very least on-par with Windu. One could assert Windu made a tiring Sidious look like a "complete joke". Granted, I'd assume Windu taking Sidious on alone might have changed things as Windu would have less of the Sith's rage and emotions to draw on, but, frankly, I'm awed by the fact that Windu's meddle allowed him to go as far as Sidious - Zonakin doesn't win here. Anakin's powers - despite their potential - are far less developed than Windu's or Dooku's. Greater when drawing on a calm rage (the zone), perhaps, but nothing next to the levels in which Windu was pushed to against Sidious. Nothing.

Originally posted by Dolos
One could assert Windu made a tiring Sidious look like a "complete joke". Granted, I'd assume Windu taking Sidious on alone might have changed things as Windu would have less of the Sith's rage and emotions to draw on, but, frankly, I'm awed by the fact that Windu's meddle allowed him to go as far as Sidious - Zonakin doesn't win here. Anakin's powers - despite their potential - are far less developed than Windu's or Dooku's. Greater when drawing on a calm rage (the zone), perhaps, but nothing next to the levels in which Windu was pushed to against Sidious. Nothing. You should read the RotS novelization--it's where we derive the "z0ne" from. What Anakin does to Dooku in a manner of seconds, just moments after Dooku was comfortably toying with him, is ridiculous. It's not a "calm rage", it's a "zone" unique to Anakin in that one single moment.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You should read the RotS novelization--it's where we derive the "z0ne" from. What Anakin does to Dooku in a manner of seconds, just moments after Dooku was comfortably toying with him, is ridiculous. It's not a "calm rage", it's a "zone" unique to Anakin in that one single moment. It's a calm rage comparable to that of which Darth Malgus experienced in the Revan series.

Moreover, it was a controlled rage, as opposed to uncontrolled like when he fought Obi-Wan.

And it did not put him above Sidious, so it is not above Windu's ability to match in a fight and overcome at a critical moment with the shatterpoint charism, if you can prove that it did than there ya go.

Originally posted by Dolos
It's a calm rage comparable to that of which Darth Malgus experienced in the Revan series.

Moreover, it was a controlled rage, as opposed to uncontrolled like when he fought Obi-Wan.

And it did not put him above Sidious, so it is not above Windu's ability to match in a fight and overcome at a critical moment with the shatterpoint charism, if you can prove that it did than there ya go. Mace's Shatterpoint revealed Palpatine's weakness--Anakin. His perspective narration says that, even submerged in Vaapad, the fight would have gone on forever if not for Shatterpoint. Palpatine's fear was provoked when Anakin entered the room, something Mace's Shatterpoint ability revealed, and what he used to his advantage to leverage a disarming maneuver. Shatterpoint isn't some magic KO attack he can throw at his opponents.


That weakness is something Zone Anakin doesn't have. That's why we've labeled him as such. He's without fear, without hesitation:
"...all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in to flame."
"...the "terror and rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is as clear as a crystal bell."

And he did make Dooku look like a complete joke:
"Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless... Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke."


Zone Anakin never reemerged after that scene, and even the variation that fought Obi-Wan on Mustafar pales in comparison. There's a reason we keep saying that Zonakin stomps.

Originally posted by Dolos
This is such a conspiracy that Darth Power has made.




Lol yes Zone Anakin is my own personal conspiracy.

Edit- To add to what Lucien's quoted I'll provide extracts from the ROTS novel later which prove the rage that empowered Sith Anakin was no where near as powerful as the rage which empowered Zone Anakin.

Should Skywalker decide to win, he wins.

Thinking about Neph's comment on the other thread...

Originally posted by DARTH POWER


Here's the extracts from the novel which prove Skywalker's fear weakens him, but he let go of that in his Zone state:

"but Skywalker had lost his edge; a simple taunt was all that had been required to shift the focus of his attention from winning the fight to controlling his own emotions. The angrier he got, the more afraid he became, and the fear fed his anger in turn;"

^ Over here Skywalker felt afraid for a short time in his fight against Count Dooku, and that made him lose his edge. This passage also shows how much weaker Skywalker gets when he's conflicted and having to control his emotions (ahem.. Sith Anakin vs Kenobi anybody). It also proves that it wasn't DJEM SO which Dooku couldn't handle, as he's still using the same damn style, but Dooku's handling him at this point.

"On Aargonar, on Jabiim in the Tusken camp on Tatooine, that smoke had clouded his mind, had blinded him and left him flailing in the dark, a mindless machine of slaughter;but here, now, within this ship, this microscopic cell of life in the infinite sterile desert of space, his firewalls have opened so that the terror and rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell."

^ This firstly shows the distinct difference between a mindless rage filled Skywalker and Zone Skywalker. As you can see his mind is very clear, and not conflicted at all when in his Zone state. And that it's not enough to just be a "mindless machine of slaughter," to achieve true power through rage.Now the next parts are interesting:

"I am Darth Vader, he said within himself.
The dragon tried again to whisper of failure, and weakness, and inevitable death, but with one hand the Sith Lord caught it, crushed away it's voice; it tried to rise then, to coil and rear and strike, but the Sith Lord laid his other hand upon it and broke its power with a single effortless twist.
I am Darth Vader, he repeated as he ground the dragon's corpse to dust beneath his mental heel, as he watched the dragon's dust and ashes scatter before the blast from his furnace heart, and you-
You are nothing at all.
He had become, finally, what they all called him.
The Hero With No Fear."

^ This was after he betrayed Windu. He was first conflicted, but the Emperor makes him feel better about his betrayal. He then accepts his Sith heritage, and apparently gets rid of his fear.

So basically If Sith Skywalker was more powerful than Jedi Skwyalker, then it could only have been at this point before the Temple Raid. Then lastly this:

"He could feel his power growing, indeed. He had the measure of his "Master" already; not long after Palpatine shared the secret of Darth Plagueis's discovery, their relationship would undergo a sudden...transformation.
A fatal transformation.
Everything was proceeding according to plan.
And yet...
He couldn't shake a certain creeping sensation... a kind of cold slimy ooze that slithered up the veins of his legs and spread clammy tendrils through his guts...
Almost as though he was still afraid...
SHE WILL DIE, YOU KNOW, THE DRAGON WHISPERED.
He shook himself, scowling. Impossible. He was Darth Vader. Fear had no power over him. He had destroyed his fear.
All things die.
Yet it was as though when he had crushed the dragon under his boot, the dragon had sunk venomed fangs into his heel.
Now it's poison chilled him to the bone.
Even starts burn out."


^And this is complete proof. This was right after he muredered the sepratists, and just before he saw Padme and fought Kenobi. This proves right before his Kenobi fight, the Fear was back in him and effecting him in a horrible way. You know that same fear which made it easy for Dooku to fend him off. That same fear which makes the power of his anger pretty useless.

Not to mention we literally see him conflicted, screaming, while murdering the sepratists. As I showed before he can't fight properly when fighting his own emotions, which he clearly was doing at that point.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER


Here's another extract when he's using his Zone state, which proves he has no fear in that state. Let's see if KT will finally concede the point. It comes right after "The Dragon" tries to whisper doubts and put fear again into Skywalker, but Skywalker entering his Zone state is no longer effected by it:


"But Palpatine's words rage is your weapon have given Anakin permission to unseal the shielding around his furnace heart, and all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in it's flame."

^Unfortunately for Skywalker and his limbs though that Dragon had sunk it's teeth deep into Skywalker before his fight with Kenobi. His fear of losing Padme was running deep in his veins. And we know Fear that Skywalker can't ignore, and can't control only makes him weaker/less powerful.

There seems to be some confusion in the other thread regarding ZonAkin which I'll just address here now.

People are claiming that Skywalker's fear makes him stronger due to this being the first paragraph of the Death of Count Dooku chapter in the ROTS novel:

"A Starbust of clarity blossoms within Anakin Skywalker's mind, when he says to himself, Oh. I get it, now and discovers that the fear within his heart can be a weapon, too."

Now just a page before this fear clearly hinders his performance:

"but Skywalker had lost his edge; a simple taunt was all that had been required to shift the focus of his attention from winning the fight to controlling his own emotions. The angrier he got, the more afraid he became, and the fear fed his anger in turn;"

^So for fear to aid him he clearly needs that clarity of mind anyway. And can't be in a state where he's "fighting to control his own emotions."

But how does Fear make him more powerful anyway? By being a path to anger and fury, which is the real weapon of the darkside (when not hindered by internal conflict).

We know this from Yoda's line in TPM "Fear is a path to the Darkside. Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to suffering."

And the ROTS novel goes onto say about "the fear" Zone Anakin is using:

"And all for nothing, because a nuclear flame has consumed Anakin Skywalker's Jedi restraint, and fear becomes fury without effort, and fury is a blade that makes his lightsaber into a toy."


^So it's his fury that's powering him, and he's actually just eliminating his Fear by replacing it with fury. Which is made even more clear with this line:

"But Palpatine's words rage is your weapon have given Anakin permission to unseal the shielding around his furnace heart, and all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in it's flame."


It's then made clear that his Zone state is not unleashing anger in a "mindless state":

"On Aargonar, on Jabiim in the Tusken camp on Tatooine, that smoke had clouded his mind, had blinded him and left him flailing in the dark, a mindless machine of slaughter;but here, now, within this ship, this microscopic cell of life in the infinite sterile desert of space, his firewalls have opened so that the terror and rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell."

^ So in his Zone state there's no internal conflict. His mind is as clear as a Crystal Bell, and he uses fury, with the terror and rage being "In the fight," instead of "in his head."


Then after he becomes Vader, he thinks he's eliminated all his fear (because even though fear is a path to the darkside, it's not in and of itself a weapon, and does not do Skywalker or Vader any good).

But then just before his fight with Kenobi(after killing the sepratists), he feels the fear in his head once more, deep rooted into him, which he doesn't want, because it does him no good. It only hinders him. And by a large amount, judging by how Dooku handled him for a moment after putting Fear and Doubts back into his head.

Mace wins...

zone anakin has weakness, just rewatch the entire CW....it's there
I know denial is a ugly thing ain't it?

The only thing zone anakin stumped was tusken raiders and Dooku...
The zone is still fuel for Vaapad...so it doesn't matter if he's zone or sith...Mace still wins....

How many blades do you see?

Originally posted by juyomaster34
zone anakin has weakness, just rewatch the entire CW....it's there
I know denial is a ugly thing ain't it?

What weakness?

Originally posted by juyomaster34
The only thing zone anakin stumped was tusken raiders and Dooku...

Yeah, just stomped Dooku, The Son and The Daughter.

He didn't do anything special though


Originally posted by juyomaster34
The zone is still fuel for Vaapad...so it doesn't matter if he's zone or sith...Mace still wins....

Nope Vapaad has it's limits. It made him Sidious's equal in a Lightsaber fight. Whilst Sidious's FL was "beyond Vapaad."


Originally posted by juyomaster34
How many blades do you see?


His speed will be usleess against Zone Anakin.

It'd be a brutal fight, but even Zonakin is not unstoppable. Since Mace is more comfortable matching physical, hard contact types than Dooku, he wouldn't be as overwhelmed by Anakin's force strength, his Vaapad would actually welcome the superior force of Zonakin.

Hard one to predict I say it's a 50/50 with victory going to whoever is more cunning in the clutch.

What weakness? recklessness....
each battle we see him diving head first into everything bearly coming out the victor.
either Obi Wan saves him from his recklessness or Ahsoka or Rex or one of the masters...

His emotions alone will be enough fuel for Vaapad.


Sids FL wasn't beyond Vaapad maybe for Yoda...which it was...
Vaapad not so much.....he didn't blast Mace's light saber out his hands...he couldn't...
not without killing himself with his own FL.....and we kno that ain't happening...

Why did you think he stopped his FL assault ?
fatigue is one
he couldn't penetrate through Mace's defense is another.

could be if he intensified it enough he would have killed himself when Mace was reflecting
Sids FL back at him through Vaapad....

What saved Sids was Anakin...
one on one Sids would have been dead.....


His speed would have killed Anakin....
this zone is nothing but controlled rage...nothing more..

Mace has a zone...too but its not called a zone...it's called battle mind....
And this Battle Mind stomps your Zone all day.....any day...

he barely beat Bariss....which is also saying alot....about this zone of yours...
Seems to me Bariss was more in the zone than Anakin was.....

limits? yeah maybe it does but FL isn't it.....especially when it was bred to Fight Sith w/FP
like FL?

So my question...to your zone is still....how many blades do you see?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Mace's Shatterpoint revealed Palpatine's weakness--Anakin. His perspective narration says that, even submerged in Vaapad, the fight would have gone on forever if not for Shatterpoint. Palpatine's fear was provoked when Anakin entered the room, something Mace's Shatterpoint ability revealed, and what he used to his advantage to leverage a disarming maneuver. Shatterpoint isn't some magic KO attack he can throw at his opponents.


That weakness is something Zone Anakin doesn't have. That's why we've labeled him as such. He's without fear, without hesitation:
"...all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in to flame."
"...the "terror and rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is as clear as a crystal bell."

And he did make Dooku look like a complete joke:
"Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless... Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke."


Zone Anakin never reemerged after that scene, and even the variation that fought Obi-Wan on Mustafar pales in comparison. There's a reason we keep saying that Zonakin stomps.


Who said Shatter Point was a magic KO?
Mace did Master this technique, he could call upon this technique at will
it was not difficult for him to use like it was for other Jedi...

if a shatter point was in this.... zone Anakin..... which it is ....then that's just what is....
maybe not fear but something else like...Anger? Attachment? ....

let's look at technique....if he covers all of Djem So's flaws then.....we might have something...
if he doesn't then....there's your answer...

Ever think why Mace is against him going on some Missions?
because he can see where he breaks.....
sometimes Anakin proves him wrong....sometimes..... the other times...he's right..

The only magic KO here is Zone...

So you people really think zone anakin could beat palpatine them? Ok.

This was from 6 years ago, most of these of people are dead by now.

Anakin stomps.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
This was from 6 years ago, most of these of people are dead by now. LOL.

Originally posted by KillaKassara
This is such a conspiracy that Darth Power has made.



Lol

I was always the source of butthurt

Originally posted by gideongarner01
So you people really think zone anakin could beat palpatine them? Ok.
ye

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lol

I was always the source of butthurt 'Member Dolos? Every now and then he'd talk about suicide.