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Shuma Gorath vs. Odin

Most powerful versions apply

Shuma with ease.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Shuma with ease.
I wish

Odin probably stomps.

If we go by imply powers then Shuma Gorath should win; if not Odin wins especially if it's SA Odin who had abstract like feats.

Shuma

Originally posted by the Darkone
If we go by imply powers then Shuma Gorath should win; if not Odin wins especially if it's SA Odin who had abstract like feats.

Odin still has Abstract like feats. Just look at his battle with Galactus.

Originally posted by Stoic
Odin still has Abstract like feats. Just look at his battle with Galactus.
Right idea, wrong example.

That Odin/Galactus fight was humiliating for both contestants. But Odin finished looking worse than Galactus.

If anything you should have used the Odin/Seth fight when they were rocking the multiverse, busting galaxies, and re-igniting long dead stars. Three characters with heightened senses : Jean Grey, Surfer, Dr. Strange, thought the battle would end up destroying the entire universe.

That's an abstract like fight with abstract like feats.

Just for giggles, the Odin/Seth fight did more damage than Thanos with the IG vs the entire Cosmic Hierarchy which only managed to destroy 'many' solar systems in the immediate vicinity! LOL phuckin' Marvel.

Originally posted by zopzop

If anything you should have used the Odin/Seth fight when they were
rocking the multiverse, busting galaxies, and re-igniting long dead
stars. Three characters with heightened senses : Jean Grey, Surfer,
Dr. Strange, thought the battle would end up destroying the entire
universe.
Hey there good friend,
I'll never interpret that as "rocking the multiverse" since they didn't
affect anything even remotely close to a single universe. I believe
the culmination of Two Skyfathers battling can and did affect space-time,
and this is what I believe the writer meant by "tearing at the fabric of the multiverse."
That "fabric" is the material it's made of, and that's Space-Time,
which applies to any part of creation. (like even "Dead galaxies"
I wouldn't call this 'hyperbole' more like over glamorization of the
actual affects therein. ("Dead galaxies/Dead suns"

They better start affecting a single live galaxy
before we can take the infinitely larger leap of an entire universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Hey there good friend,
I'll never interpret that as "rocking the multiverse" since they didn't
affect anything even remotely close to a single universe. I believe
the culmination of Two Skyfathers battling can and did affect space-time,
and this is what I believe the writer meant by "tearing at the fabric of the multiverse."
That "fabric" is the material it's made of, and that's Space-Time,
which applies to any part of creation. I wouldn't call this 'hyperbole'
more like over glamorization of the actual affects therein. ("Dead galaxies/Dead suns"

They better start affecting a single live galaxy
before we can take the infinitely larger leap of an entire universe.
Oh, I hear you Mr. M. Still, hyperbole or not, Marvel needs to tone down the Asgardian wanking.......................a lot.

As to the thread, who do you think takes it?

Based on feats: Odin.

Based on hyperboles: Still Odin, since he has been called omnipotent in more issues than Shuma has even appeared.

IIRC Shuma is pretty much invincible, except against high powered magic, which Odin has in spades. Unless he can tag in Akuma or Dark Ryu for a Hyper Combo, Odin should win.

Until convinced otherwise, I'll say Shuma takes this after a hard fight.

Would this not depend on if they are in Shumas realm or not? I believe Shuma is originally intended to be quite a bit more powerful than a Skyfather but I couldbbe wrong.

If they're both written properly, then Shuma-Gorath would wreck Odin. However, with current Marvel's huge obsession and wankery of the Asgardians (probably due to Brevoort) I wouldn't be surprised if a written confrontation were to happen, Shuma'd get impaled by Odin's Asgardian enchanted dingleberry and explode.

Originally posted by CortSether
If they're both written properly, then Shuma-Gorath would wreck Odin. However, with current Marvel's huge obsession and wankery of the Asgardians (probably due to Brevoort) I wouldn't be surprised if a written confrontation were to happen, Shuma'd get impaled by Odin's Asgardian enchanted dingleberry and explode.
Did you see what's going on in Mighty Avengers 2? It looks like you were right about Black Mage Dr. Strange and the Wings of Needless Sorrow.

Shuma is intended to be more powerful. Asgardian wankery is confusing people.

Shuma wins

Originally posted by zopzop
Did you see what's going on in Mighty Avengers 2? It looks like you were right about Black Mage Dr. Strange and the Wings of Needless Sorrow.

I'm actually surprised to see that they pulled that artifact out considering how old-school it is, now the most I can hope for is Shuma's defeat being due to a combo of using that and banishment. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they hit Shuma with the nerf bat. They drew him to look like a larger version of his Marvel vs Capcom 3 appearance. I hope the comparison ends there and the writer doesn't decide to piss on fans by having Shuma driven away by Spider-Man pummeling him and yelling out "Maximum Spider!"

I kid but seriously I hope this doesn't end in PIS considering the Wings of Needless Sorrow would be the most logical way of combating Shuma. That weapon is kind of OP but it's pretty awesome at the same time.

Originally posted by CortSether
I'm actually surprised to see that they pulled that artifact out considering how old-school it is, now the most I can hope for is Shuma's defeat being due to a combo of using that and banishment. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they hit Shuma with the nerf bat. They drew him to look like a larger version of his Marvel vs Capcom 3 appearance. I hope the comparison ends there and the writer doesn't decide to piss on fans by having Shuma driven away by Spider-Man pummeling him and yelling out "Maximum Spider!"

I kid but seriously I hope this doesn't end in PIS considering the Wings of Needless Sorrow would be the most logical way of combating Shuma. That weapon is kind of OP but it's pretty awesome at the same time.
PS did you know a powerless Dr. Strange, Dormammu had stolen his body AND was fully incarnated on Earth, fought Dormammu to a standstill using NOTHING but the Wings of Needless Sorrow?

So you were right regarding that Arioch/Black Mage Strange fight. The only reason Strange beat Arioch was because of the Wings (they absorb magic).

Originally posted by zopzop
PS did you know a powerless Dr. Strange, Dormammu had stolen his body AND was fully incarnated on Earth, fought Dormammu to a standstill using NOTHING but the Wings of Needless Sorrow?

So you were right regarding that Arioch/Black Mage Strange fight. The only reason Strange beat Arioch was because of the Wings (they absorb magic).

Yep, and it also helped in the fight against Shuma-Gorath. We know he was using it then too because Shuma tells Strange that he was draining his power, plus the Wings can be influenced through mental commands.

Did you read Strange Tales II #4 where the WoNS made its first appearance? It's actually pretty cool and shows just how crazy the WoNS is.

It was found by a fisherman on the coast of Hong Kong and as soon as he brought it to his wife, Hong Kong started having a mass of sudden homicides by people who would never be the type to murder under normal circumstances. Strange sees the aftermath of one instance where it causes a guy to butcher his wife of six months with a knife in public, then after the murder he starts kneeling over her corpse and crying how he always loved her and couldn't have killed her.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805600_wings_homicide.JPG

"They were married for six months. Happy, by all accounts. No problems. Now this...Just took a knife to her - And sits there crying how much he loved her."

And then once he finds out that it's the WoNS causing everything (the blood of the woman took the shape of the WoNS), he tries to take it from the woman who has it. He finds it being worn by a woman cradling her deaf, blind and ill son. When he tries to examine the WoNS it uses its influence on the woman's husband to stop him from taking it. It's able to make the man's grip so strong that Strange can't break free and is unable to use his spells.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805552_wings_protecting.JPG

"His Grip - I can't break it! My spells don't work! The talisman is protecting itself through him!"

Strange also describes how dangerous the Wings of Needless Sorrow is:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16805546_wings_of_needless_sorrow_description.JPG

"Just as the Ancients said - This is the heart of every senseless act of despair - Every destruction that arises from a feeling that nothing matters. Whoever wields it wields unutterable power - The power to force the destruction of joy - And it has the perfect foil in a woman whose only joy has been wasting away."

As if the homicides weren't enough, the WoNS influences a huge crowd of people to connect showers to drums of petrol and hold lighters in the air so they'll cook themselves alive when the gasoline pours out of the shower heads. Strange is only able to prevent it by becoming the new host for the WoNS.


http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805594_wings_suicide_1.JPGhttp://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805595_wings_suicide_2.JPGhttp://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805596_wings_suicide_3.JPGhttp://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805612_wings_suicide_4.JPGhttp://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805611_wings_suicide_4.5.JPG


And even with the WoNS taken away, Strange still says misfortune will follow the family that found it - the little boy will die, then the mother will die from a broken heart, and the husband will follow. Becoming the WoNS's new host is what finally makes Strange impure enough to use the Eye of Agamotto.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805599_wings_suicide_5.JPG

Originally posted by Mr Master
Hey there good friend,
I'll never interpret that as "rocking the multiverse" since they didn't
affect anything even remotely close to a single universe. I believe
the culmination of Two Skyfathers battling can and did affect space-time,
and this is what I believe the writer meant by "tearing at the fabric of the multiverse."
That "fabric" is the material it's made of, and that's Space-Time,
which applies to any part of creation. (like even "Dead galaxies"
I wouldn't call this 'hyperbole' more like over glamorization of the
actual affects therein. ("Dead galaxies/Dead suns"

They better start affecting a single live galaxy
before we can take the infinitely larger leap of an entire universe.

totally agree with this.

Originally posted by CortSether
Yep, and it also helped in the fight against Shuma-Gorath. We know he was using it then too because Shuma tells Strange that he was draining his power, plus the Wings can be influenced through mental commands.

Did you read Strange Tales II #4 where the WoNS made its first appearance? It's actually pretty cool and shows just how crazy the WoNS is.

It was found by a fisherman on the coast of Hong Kong and as soon as he brought it to his wife, Hong Kong started having a mass of sudden homicides by people who would never be the type to murder under normal circumstances. Strange sees the aftermath of one instance where it causes a guy to butcher his wife of six months with a knife in public, then after the murder he starts kneeling over her corpse and crying how he always loved her and couldn't have killed her.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805600_wings_homicide.JPG

"They were married for six months. Happy, by all accounts. No problems. Now this...Just took a knife to her - And sits there crying how much he loved her."

And then once he finds out that it's the WoNS causing everything (the blood of the woman took the shape of the WoNS), he tries to take it from the woman who has it. He finds it being worn by a woman cradling her deaf, blind and ill son. When he tries to examine the WoNS it uses its influence on the woman's husband to stop him from taking it. It's able to make the man's grip so strong that Strange can't break free and is unable to use his spells.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805552_wings_protecting.JPG

"His Grip - I can't break it! My spells don't work! The talisman is protecting itself through him!"

Strange also describes how dangerous the Wings of Needless Sorrow is:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16805546_wings_of_needless_sorrow_description.JPG

"Just as the Ancients said - This is the heart of every senseless act of despair - Every destruction that arises from a feeling that nothing matters. Whoever wields it wields unutterable power - The power to force the destruction of joy - And it has the perfect foil in a woman whose only joy has been wasting away."

As if the homicides weren't enough, the WoNS influences a huge crowd of people to connect showers to drums of petrol and hold lighters in the air so they'll cook themselves alive when the gasoline pours out of the shower heads. Strange is only able to prevent it by becoming the new host for the WoNS.


http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805594_wings_suicide_1.JPGhttp://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805595_wings_suicide_2.JPGhttp://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805596_wings_suicide_3.JPGhttp://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805612_wings_suicide_4.JPGhttp://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805611_wings_suicide_4.5.JPG


And even with the WoNS taken away, Strange still says misfortune will follow the family that found it - the little boy will die, then the mother will die from a broken heart, and the husband will follow. Becoming the WoNS's new host is what finally makes Strange impure enough to use the Eye of Agamotto.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/16805599_wings_suicide_5.JPG
Most of those scans are new to me, I never read the issue they came from.

I found that Shuma-Gorath scan you were talking about :
http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media/Shuma-Gorath/shumagorathvoodoo.jpg.html

Looks like you were right again, white mage Strange would have been curbstomped by Shuma Gorath.

Man, I have high hopes for this upcoming Mighty Avengers issue.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Would this not depend on if they are in Shumas realm or not? I believe Shuma is originally intended to be quite a bit more powerful than a Skyfather but I couldbbe wrong. in the same sense that the presence, living tribunal, ToAA etc have no feats but are supposed to be ridiculously powerful so is Shuma though not to that extent. Of course enter any of those into a competition and its a one sided murderstomp despite them having all of 2 feats to rub together to keep them warm in the cold winters between their appearances. Of course talk about Shuma and its all hyperbole and complaints that he has no feats... Double standards much.

Originally posted by zopzop
Most of those scans are new to me, I never read the issue they came from.

I found that Shuma-Gorath scan you were talking about :
http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media/Shuma-Gorath/shumagorathvoodoo.jpg.html

Looks like you were right again, white mage Strange would have been curbstomped by Shuma Gorath.

Man, I have high hopes for this upcoming Mighty Avengers issue.

Same here. I need to get my hands on these Mighty Avengers issues soon, especially since I saw the below image preview on CBR. I'm pleasantly surprised that Kaluu made a return, and with all these throwbacks to Strange Tales II, I'm having more confidence that Shuma won't come out getting the nerf bat and being humiliated by Blue Marvel. This Al Ewing guy clearly read that story arc and since he's familiar with how Shuma was portrayed in that, I doubt he'd write him out to job in humiliation.
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/16807080_MIGHTAVN2013002-int-LR-2-de516.jpg

Random fact: When I was considering participating in the KMC writers tournament, my first scene of my first issue would have Odin being KTFO of Asgard by Shuma.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Random fact: When I was considering participating in the KMC writers tournament, my first scene of my first issue would have Odin being KTFO of Asgard by Shuma.

That would have been hilarious. Shuma eating Asgard entirely would also be pretty damn funny.

Were it not for the fact that zop will inevitably go back to pooping upon Shuma all over again in a couple of months, I could almost shed a tear at Cort and zop's new found love for each other.

Guess what those damned ponies say must be true: friendship is indeed magic. I've gots to gets me a friend irl, and that too quick.

Originally posted by CortSether
This Al Ewing guy clearly read that story arc and since he's familiar with how Shuma was portrayed in that, I doubt he'd write him out to job in humiliation.
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/16807080_MIGHTAVN2013002-int-LR-2-de516.jpg
Most excellent! Nice find.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Were it not for the fact that zop will inevitably go back to pooping upon Shuma all over again in a couple of months, I could almost shed a tear at Cort and zop's new found love for each other.

Guess what those damned ponies say must be true: friendship is indeed magic. I've gots to gets me a friend irl, and that too quick.
Silence you!

Seriously though Shuma's not a good character to judge in fights he just doesn't have the on panel feats for it and unlike characters like the living tribunal, the presence, TOAA he doesn't get to use off panel feats or hype that the others get to take for granted on forum by virtue of being near supreme beings... according to hype... just like Shuma was an multi-universal conqueror who used to go around pwning universes left and right... But thats all off panel hyperbole for him.

Originally posted by CortSether
That would have been hilarious. Shuma eating Asgard entirely would also be pretty damn funny.

Basicallt it would start above Broxton, everyone would see a very weird storm in the sky, then a dimensional portal would open, a glowing meteor would fall to Earth and hit in a huge explosion, then in the crater we see it's Odin, unconscious and bloody, his armor broken and torn, etc. then it pans up and we see a vision of Shuma hovering over Asgard with the whole place in flames, etc.

Problem was I couldn't think of what to do next.

I'd bet on Odin beating Shuma though to be honest.

Edit: Read the first page. Lol at the Asgard butthurt. Asgard and it's Gods are Marvel's premier pantheon and the Architects of Marvel (Lee/Kirby) created them to be a major power with Odin alone being a Cosmic powerhouse.

It's like bitching about DC because they love to play up Batman/Superman. It's such a fundamental part of the Universe, that it's bound to come up every once in a while. In the meantime, we have crap like Siege.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd bet on Odin beating Shuma though to be honest.

Naturally you would, Thorbag