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Like the sith one, but with jedi. discuss.

Satele, the HoT, Revan, and the Barsen'thor are better than anyone else.

Tol Bragga and Jaric Kaedan are proably the ones behind them.

Ven Zallow, Kao-Cen Darach, and Aryn Leener are probably up there behind the two above.

Orgus Din and the rest of the Council are below all of the above, probably. Syo Bakarn is probably the best of the leftovers, though.

Am I forgetting anyone important?

TIER 1

- Bersen'thor
- HoT
- Revan
- Jaric Kaedan
- Satele Shan

TIER 2

- Syo Bakarn
- Aryn Leener
- Bengel Morr
- Tol Braga

TIER 3 (Count Dooku level)

- Ven Zallow
- Kao-Cen Darach
- Orgus Din
- Warren Sedoru
- Leeha Narezz
- Ngani Zho

TIER 4

- Bela Kiwiiks
- Gnost Dural
- Wens Aleusis
- Giffis Fane
- Nikil Nobil
- Oric Traless
- Shol Bestros
- Kira Karsen

Some more names:-

TIER 4

- Kellian Jarro
- Usma

I don't know much about this era, but Revan in the same tier with HoT?

I heard that HoT bested Vitiate, while Vitiate bested Revan quite easily. As Sith, Vitiate is in tier 1, so Revan should be in tier 2.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
TIER 2

- Syo Bakarn
- Aryn Leener
- Bengel Morr
- Tol Braga


I'd argue Tol Braga is in tier 1, at least if you consider Jaric Kaedan to also be.

1. HoT
2. Barsen'thor
3. Revan
4. Satele Shan
5. Jaric Kaedan/Tol Braga
6. Jaric Kaedan/Tol Braga
7. Aryn Leneer
8. Ven Zallow
9. Kao-Cen Darach
10. Orgus Din

I'd agree with that list probably, only substituting Din for Kellian Jarro or Jun Seros.

There are a few others to consider imo. There is the problem that the Tol Braga's Jedi Strike Team was said to be made up of the strongest Jedi in the Order. Then there is the fact that theres a former Dark Council Member running around in the form of Sajar. Sidonie Garen was also quite impressive in the Consular storyline. But I think its accurate to say theres less impressive Jedi in the TOR era than there is Sith.

Problem: the people I put ahead of warren/leeha actually have feats.

crap I forgot about Sajar. Has crazy endurance/willpower imo, probably bump him in zallow's place, move the rest a step down.

Ranking characters accurately is a very difficult task, IMO.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ranking characters accurately is a very difficult task, IMO.

Depends on the material. Game stuff is pretty tricky. Some authors in other media make it much more clear.

I based mine off of feats with a little hype mixed in.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I based mine off of feats with a little hype mixed in.


Yea, but, for example, it's much easier to rank people based on TCW CGI show, or Star Wars Legacy, because they have not just characters fight, but fight repeatedly and in different combinations.

Ventress, Grievous, and Opress each fight a *lot* of people, so it's easier to say, "Ah, X did better against Ventress than Y," and so on. They're steady reference points, especially if additional info can be added on.


With TOR, a lot of the characters only really show up in one character's story line, and only fight one character once or twice on top of that. On top of that, in some cases the plot-canon results are clear, but the fight itself was gameplay, so you don't have as much detail as a fight in other things. So you have a lot of fairly loose info floating around that doesn't have enough datapoints to be too concrete.

That's why they have certain cutscene things happen before some battles. 2 examples would be master braga throwing a large object at the HoT with TK, and The First Son thrashing around the Barsen'thor before their battle.

Not really. The Hero defeated Vitiate when he was weakened and vulnerable, as if he fought Vitiate on an Emperor's normal day he would have lost obviously. Vitiate is a firm tier ahead of Revan, but also the Hero aswell. On top of this, Vitiate didnt beat Revan "easily", Revan gave him a run for his money...:

"Three centuries ago, Revan wielded the dual philosophies of Sith passion and Jedi tranquility to conquer his enemies; he even nearly assassinated the Sith Emperor."
-Star Wars: The Old Republic Enclyopedia

"It stuck the Emperor in the chest , sending him sliding several meters back. For the fist time the Sith's emotionless veneer cracked as he let out a primal hiss of hate"
-Star Wars: The Old Republic- Revan

Revan is tier 1, though I cannot agree that he is equal to or greater than the Hero. Revan himself even stated, "The force always strives for balance. The Emperor is an agent of darkness, so he must be defeated by an avatar of the light. I may be that champion."

Obviously Revan fails in this endeavor, while the Hero succeeds. Vitiate didn't struggle too much with Revan, when he got serious Revan was quickly overwhelmed. Losing to Vitiate doesn't make you weak by any means however, he was the most powerful sith lord to have ever existed (up till his time). Doing well against him puts you in tier 1 undoubtedly.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not really. The Hero defeated Vitiate when he was weakened and vulnerable, as if he fought Vitiate on an Emperor's normal day he would have lost obviously.

Vitiate was also inside the Dark Temple, an extremely powerful darkside nexus that would boost his power and weaken the Hero of Tython. In fact the temple is especially tied to Vitiate and he uses it to drain power and knowledge from the ghosts there, so he may be boosted even more than normal there.

Furthermore Scourge says that Vitiates power would return to him quickly and should a lightsided Hero go to save their love interest he will recover his strength noticeably and the Hero will be weakened from the extra fighting.

Then theres the fact that the Hero has to fight through Kaas City (in which every citizen is a soldier or has military training), Vitiates cultists and Sith followers and the Imperial Guard (the greatest non-force using force in the galaxy whom even the strongest Sith surrender to be executed by rather than even attempt to fight) in order to get to him, so I'd hardly expect the Hero to be at her best either.

I agree with the above.

Thank you.

Orgus Din shielded the Hero's mind from dark side effects. Also, much of the nexus within the dark temple probably has to do with vitiate's own presence. I have taken in agreement that being on dromund kaas actually doesn't bolster vitiate's power, and if it does, it would be a minor enhancement.


Prove that he literally fought every1 in kaas city, the imp guards, etc. The whole point of the mission was to quickly and sneakily get to the dark temple and kill the emperor.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thank you.

I was referring to Supreme's post, as when I was typing that I didn't see your post, but I completely agree with yours as well.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I was referring to Supreme's post, as when I was typing that I didn't see your post, but I agree with yours as well.

Thank you.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Orgus Din shielded the Hero's mind from dark side effects. Also, much of the nexus within the dark temple probably has to do with vitiate's own presence. I have taken in agreement that being on dromund kaas actually doesn't bolster vitiate's power, and if it does, it would be a minor enhancement.


Prove that he literally fought every1 in kaas city, the imp guards, etc. The whole point of the mission was to quickly and sneakily get to the dark temple and kill the emperor.

Eh, even if thats true, that doesn't apply to the Dark Temple which presumably gets its dark power from the numerous Sith Lords buried inside it. I don't see why Vitiate being the originator of the nexus would make it less effective at boosting him either. If I create a fire it does heat me less than anyone else. Just because he corrupted it doesn't mean anything. It exists as a power outside of his own, unconnected or maintained by his own strength. Furthermore Din shielded the Hero's mind but I fail to see how that would prevent the Temple from corroding their connection to the Light Side. At best it would make them unaffected by the insanity the Temple causes in people but I wouldn't expect that to affect the Hero anyway considering the Empire players all run around the Temple with no ill effects..

I didn't say they fought everyone in Kaas City, I said that everyone in Kaas City is a fighter. Scourge stresses this point as why it will be challenging to fight through. But you are dropped off at the entrance to the city and have to fight to the center so I doubt it was a cakewalk. Likewise you are dropped off near the steps of the Dark Temple and have to fight to the center to get to Vitiate. Now your party is running interference for you and fighting in other parts of Kaas City/the Dark Temple but that's only 4 other people. The Knight is not sneaking in. Vitiate is aware you are coming (you invade with a fleet for gods sake) and the defenses are up. The Knight fought through that.

1. How would his own power boost himself? Since it was a notable, though not extremely powerful nexus before vitiate's arrival, I don't think he gets enough of a boost to compensate for his previous voice dying, which weakens him to an incredible extent anyway. Because if the Hero wasn't shielded, the Emperor would have attempted his mental domination again, giving him ample time to utilize a lethal attack, and the Hero would be ultimately overwhelmed.

2. Of course it wouldn't be a cakewalk. However the Hero is vastly above anyone he faces sans the Emperor, so I think he could get to Vitiate without feeling too tired. If he was very tired, the Emperor would have most definitely won.

Wait, Vitiate was weakened because of the thing with Sel Makor and the Voice? I thought it was because he was trying to do this galaxy-buffet ritual and it blundered.

A war on two fronts, so to speak. We know from the emperor's defeat at the hands of the hero that vitiate gets severely weakened when a voice dies.

No we don't.

Vitiate isn't mentioned as weakened by it to my knowledge.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. How would his own power boost himself? Since it was a notable, though not extremely powerful nexus before vitiate's arrival, I don't think he gets enough of a boost to compensate for his previous voice dying, which weakens him to an incredible extent anyway. Because if the Hero wasn't shielded, the Emperor would have attempted his mental domination again, giving him ample time to utilize a lethal attack, and the Hero would be ultimately overwhelmed.

2. Of course it wouldn't be a cakewalk. However the Hero is vastly above anyone he faces sans the Emperor, so I think he could get to Vitiate without feeling too tired. If he was very tired, the Emperor would have most definitely won.

1. Because it isn't his own power. Its a nexus. Just because he formed it doesn't make it 'his power' anymore than if I have a baby its still a part of my body. Its a nexus that gives off its own energy, not Vitiates. The Emperor wasn't able to dominate his mind, no. That doesn't mean he would be similarly immune to the affects of a nexus.

2. My point is that the Hero was likely a bit tired as well. If you go to save your love interest Vitiate notes that doing so depleted your energy. It stands to reason then that the other fighting that the Hero had to do would similarly affect them. In the end my point is that the Hero was tired and weakened by the nexus while Vitiate was very weakened from his ritual but was also boosted by the temples nexus, making the fight more or less equal and thus the Hero beat Vitiate legitimately.

So I assume you think the Hero is above Yoda/RotS Sidious?

About equal, likely.

you:

Vitiate>RotS Sidious
HoT>Vitiate

HoT = RotS sidious

please elaborate

ABC logic doesn't work for a reason, bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
ABC logic doesn't work for a reason, bro.

How so? If vitiate cannot beat the Hero (whom is master in lightsaber combat), why would Sidious/yoda (whom are both masters in lightsaber combat) not be able to do the same?

I don't see it as that simple. There are other fact's at work to consider: Force power's, stamina, Vitiates telepathy etc.

Why do you hate apostrophes? Why, dammit?

hmm, I suppose that HoT's defeat of vitiate was circumstantial, so that Vitiate's telepathy was useless. This leads me to believe Vitiate>HoT, however

Vitiate, in my view, has greater total power, but is not specced for duels. So a duel-focused top Jedi or Sith can beat him.

Sorry Temp, Fixed.

i hate you

He forgot to Capitalize his "I" ^^ Everyone stare in shock O.O

Originally posted by The_Tempest
i hate you

And so it begins...

Anyways, let's veer back on topic. Post who you think are your top 10 jedi/sith of the TOR era

Heres what I got so far:
1. Sith Emperor
2. Revan (Possibly lower)
3. Hero of Tython
4. Emperor's Wrath
5. Darth Nox
6. Bersen'thoran
7. Satele Shan (Possibly higher)

this is purely jedi...

Revan is below Hero, not sure about barsen'thor tho

edit: crap I just noticed I actually said jedi/sith, srry ant

Well you said "Anyways, let's veer back on topic. Post who you think are your top 10 jedi/sith of the TOR era" on the previous page

And Revan/Hero is debatable...thats why I just put him as "Possibly lower".

The Hero is noticed as the avatar of light when he defeated the Emperor, while Revan failed to do so. Actually, Revan/Meetra/Scourge still were not powerful enough to defeat the Emperor.

I'd put the Barsen'thor above Revan too imo. Just better feats all around except for lightsabers but Revans not exactly well known for that either so eh.

Kinda depends. Revan has actually defeated a large variety of foes through lightsaber combat, so i'm pretty sure he's well above the barsen'thor in that regard. Revan is also comparable in the force, so i'm not too sure actually.

1. Hero of Tython
2. Satele Shan
3. Barsen'thor
4. Tol Bragga
5. Aryn Leener

That's not including Revan or Jaric Kaedan.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
1. Hero of Tython
2. Satele Shan
3. Barsen'thor
4. Tol Bragga
5. Aryn Leener

That's not including Revan or Jaric Kaedan.

Why not include them?

Because I'm having a hard time placing Revan, and Jaric Kaedan is practically an unknown.

I've always put Jaric at Braga level, and Revan at Barsen'thor level

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Kinda depends. Revan has actually defeated a large variety of foes through lightsaber combat, so i'm pretty sure he's well above the barsen'thor in that regard. Revan is also comparable in the force, so i'm not too sure actually.

I don't feel number of forms is a good judge of lightsaber skill. Dooku only uses one, and he's one of the top duelists of the CW era, and outpaces several known for knowing all the main styles (including Sora Bulq, who is described as a master of all).

I said "foes", not "forms"


revan has defeated

Mandalore the Ultimate
Yusannis
Malak (twice)
Bastila
The One

all of these combatants are impressive. Mandalore is the leader of a clan that specializes in mastery over physical aspects of fighting. Yusannis is considered a legendary echani warrior, another group similar to the mandalorians. Malak was considered the jedi order's greatest champion (of his time) behind Revan, and was amped by the star forge during his death at the hands of revan. The One is the leader of the Rakata, a race that primarily uses blades and such. Bastila was sent at a very young age to lead the strike team to capture darth revan, which is a testament to her ability. She was, like malak, being amped by the star forge when she was defeated by revan.

Oh, duh. Sorry, I need sleep.

Ignore what I just said, beating a large number of foes *is* impressive ^^

1.
Revan, Hero of Tython, Barsen'thor
-
2.
Satele Shan, Jaric Kaedan, Tol Braga, Sajar

3.
Aryn Leneer, Gnost-Dural, Ven Zallow, Nomen Karr, Wyellett, Kao Cen Darach,

4.
Jun Seros, Kellian Jarro, Usma, Orgus Din, Bela Kiwikks, Bengel Morr, Warren Sedoru, Leeha Narezz, Yonlach

5.
Kira Carsen, Nadia Grell, Yun-Li, most masters from the Jedi Consular campaign

6.
Run of the Mill Jedi

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


TIER 3 (Count Dooku level)

- Ven Zallow
- Kao-Cen Darach
- Orgus Din
- Warren Sedoru
- Leeha Narezz
- Ngani Zho


Sweet jesus you actually think these people are Count Dooku level??

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Hero is noticed as the avatar of light when he defeated the Emperor,
The ****? Besides Revan saying the Force wants balance and Scourge saying he had a vision of the HoT becoming Emperor, where is this said?

Pulling posts from 2013 generally isn't a good method to find consistency with my current views.

I don't read the dates on posts not made by BoardWalker.

The name is too sacred to say.

I'm a disciple. I can say that name whenever and wherever I want.

Revan
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.
HoT
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Everyone else

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'm a disciple. I can say that name whenever and wherever I want.

It awaits the call of its disciples. You better be the only one.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Sweet jesus you actually think these people are Count Dooku level??

Legit lol'd

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Sweet jesus you actually think these people are Count Dooku level??

He thinks average Sith Lords of the Sith Empire are Dooku tier actually.

I doubt Satele's more powerful than the Consular.