Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

*Drum roll*
Okay here we go. Two of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time both having accolades claiming they are the strongest in history. In a battle to the death between The Sith Emperor as of his first encounter with the Hero of Tython and Darth Sidious from Dark Times, who will come out victorious?!?

http://m.eet.com/media/1004631/856964.jpg
-versus-
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120919003222/starwars/images/thumb/1/1d/Emperor_lightning_saber.png/454px-Emperor_lightning_saber.png

I would like for them to actually show us a picture of the real body of Vitiate

He has no "Real body", he mearly takes the host of a person to fill his spirit. Like Abeloth kinda.

No, he has a real body. He's a pureblood sith. His real body went into slumber after his fight with Revan. That's when he started doing essence transfer into his "voices".

Both are vastly powerful practitioners of the dark side, i'm genuinely not sure.

You're wrong, Ant. Vitiate fought Revan in his original body, for one. For two, some argue that the body the Hero faced was also the original.

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
No, he has a real body. He's a pureblood sith. His real body went into slumber after his fight with Revan. That's when he started doing essence transfer into his "voices".

Ah true...but no mean to be racist to the Sith, but they all kinda look alike. :/

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111218225734/swtor/images/b/be/Ss_pureblood01_800x450.jpg
http://www.deathsfist.com/images/species.jpg

No, they really don't. Variation does exist with them just as much as humans. The females, especially.

Show me two Sith that look different that are both Pureblood.

:::facepalm:::

Vitiate stomps because he has telepathy, and you need to have a combination of both light side and dark side to use TK on Vitiate in order to break off his concentration of mind-domination.

Let's talk about the actual battle at hand...

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Show me two Sith that look different that are both Pureblood.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Scourge_%28Sith%29

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vowrawn

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Vitiate stomps because he has telepathy, and you need to have a combination of both light side and dark side to use TK on Vitiate in order to break off his concentration of mind-domination.

To be completely honest, it is very difficult to actually affect Vitiate with force abilities. Revan's (impressive) TK sent an imp guard who was drawing on vitiate's power just half a step back. The only time Vitiate has been noticeably affected by TK was when Revan went semi-oneness while vitiate didn't have his guard up from directing a telepathic assault, and even then he got right back up.

Sidious wins because he apparently knows every power in existence and that includes ones that were mentioned after that hyperbole quote, and he knows every defense!

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Vitiate stomps because he has telepathy, and you need to have a combination of both light side and dark side to use TK on Vitiate in order to break off his concentration of mind-domination.



http://jesshaines.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/So-It-Begins.gif

I don't remember who ever argued that Sidious knows every force power. Tho I've seen pretty good arguments that Sidious is very knowledgeable based on that quote in the DE sourcebook.

Yeah, I'd say Sidious is among the few individuals that can stop Vitiate's telepathy without having faced it before, since he already knows the technique used and it's mechanics.

Except he doesn't. And not this crap again. Haven't we destroyed enough threads already?

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
Except he doesn't. And not this crap again. Haven't we destroyed enough threads already?

Go away, your trolling is unwanted here!

The DE Sourcebook says Sidious is a master of every Dark Side technique. Vitiate's telepathy is included. Therefore he does.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Scourge_%28Sith%29

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vowrawn

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/1292223254212-dumpfm-mario-Obamaclap.gif

You're about 5 years behind on this logic. That hyperbole doesn't begin to encompass anything written after that quote. You lose.

Really. Beefy's already said Sidious is better written and more powerful. As funny as it is seeing he and Sidious66 go back and forth, let's just celebrate Sidious's glory together and move on.

Except that it's not a hyperbole. It's a straightforward fact. Your move.

Better written and more powerful (DE Sidious) yes. But I rather enjoy the mystery of Vitiate more.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/1292223254212-dumpfm-mario-Obamaclap.gif

And for clarification, the quote says "it is believed" that Sidious is a master of "almost all" the known powers.

It's hyperbole that doesn't encompass newer material. Your move

Oh, it is believed? It's also believed that I have a 12 inch monster (it's true).

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
Better written and more powerful (DE Sidious) yes. But I rather enjoy the mystery of Vitiate more.

This isn't a comparison of who's the better written character though, this is a comparison of their combat abilities, an area where Sidious trumps Vitiate.

In some ways he does, in other ways he doesn't.

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
Better written and more powerful (DE Sidious) yes.

That's what I said. You said Sidious is better written and more powerful. S66 should take his victory in a classy manner and not mercilessly prod you at the risk of this thread.

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
But I rather enjoy the mystery of Vitiate more.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7569/aiba2xface.gif

lol

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And for clarification, the quote says "it is believed" that Sidious is a master of "almost all" the known powers.

Wasn't it in-universe as well?

I wonder why "Beefy" believes DE Sidious is the only Sidious who is superior to Vitiate? Is it because of force storms? No, that couldn't be it, because he use to argue that Sidious can't use that power in combat. I mean, unless his mind changed?

Because DE Sidious is younger and more powerful with more tricks up his sleeves? I would think it was rather obvious for everyone but you.

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
In some ways he does, in other ways he doesn't.

You're right. Vitiate is better at making his cloney-thingies. But they'd get slaughtered by Sidious anyway.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wasn't it in-universe as well?

That's what the "it is believed" indicates.

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
But I rather enjoy the mystery of Vitiate more.

...All right, you got me. I have to ask: what mystery?



http://media.tumblr.com/f9090e57a8ae7143e151f015851590c2/tumblr_inline_msxn6piXXx1qz4rgp.gif

Miz Thang, what tricks does he have up his sleeve besides force storm?

And I don't see how being in a younger body makes any difference to you since you believe Sidious wouldn't be able get near Vitiate.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Palpatine was power, yet he was nothing compared to Ant himself, the direct descendant of Revan himself."
-United States of America Constitution

Lets see. Being younger, consolidating his power for 6 years, apparently conferring with ancient sith, gifting random people with the force, etc.

And the mystery of Vitiate, as in everything. The less that is said about a character, the better I like him/her.

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
And the mystery of Vitiate, as in everything. The less that is said about a character, the better I like him/her.

Really?

We're given his backstory in his first canonical appearance (Revan) and it's further detailed in the encyclopedia. He's really not mysterious at all, he's just unpopular.

I've long opined that Revan's appeal primarily owes to being a blank template endorsed by the narrative into which the masses of insecure nerds can project themselves. Kinda like a male Bella Swan.

I get Revan. I don't get Vitiate. Tell me more.

I liked Revan for his characterisation in KotOR II myself.

We're given a backstory, a few feats from Vitiate, nothing filling in the blanks. Sort of like with Revan, except Revan is much more likeable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I liked Revan for his characterisation in KotOR II myself.

I rather like the idea of Revan myself. Veneficus wrote a hell of a fanfic that was 10x what Karpyshyn delivered.

But the deep fixation that Revan used to inspire in folks was almost certainly the product of him being a template Gary Stu.

It's the same phenomenon manifest in Twilight. The thought of being Bella Swan is enough to make a cobra out of a young woman's clitoral hood.

I don't even know why you mentioned Twilight. That throws all your credibility as a heterosexual out the window.

The behavior and similarities are striking, that's all. /shrug

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
We're given a backstory, a few feats from Vitiate, nothing filling in the blanks. Sort of like with Revan, except Revan is much more likeable.

I see. In other words, you prefer characters with little provided substance that allows room for your imagination?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I rather like the idea of Revan myself. Veneficus wrote a hell of a fanfic that was 10x what Karpyshyn delivered.


Link me!!!

Preferably sexual.. But yes

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
Preferably sexual.. But yes

Quit flirting with me, you ****.

Vitiate wins.
He precedes Sidious and is obviously more combat oriented.
Sidious may have a shot in force powers only, but in sabers and all-out he is mauled.

^

Vitiate definitely wins in sabers.

I was going to say Sidious has a shot, but then I remembered that thing he did that one time and the fancy twirl he does against the Hero and I thought

NO.

Sidious can also do fancy twirls :d

Its just not the same.

yup

lol

Any version of Sidious post TPM will bend vitiate over the knee and give him a spanking

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Heart of the Cards.

Duh.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkn22qJMhv1qcl8fjo1_400.gif

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Any version of Sidious post TPM will bend vitiate over the knee and give him a spanking

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkn22qJMhv1qcl8fjo1_400.gif


Nooo! Not Exodia!

Nope.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Any version of Sidious post TPM will bend vitiate over the knee and give him a spanking

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nooo! Not Exodia!

It's over Kaiba!

Anyways, I don't understand why people think RotS sidious would stomp vitiate, makes no sense.

TPM Sidious would win as well.

but there's nothing to suggest that...

I wouldn't claim so if that was the case.

I'd love to see what TPM Sidious has done to put him ahead of vitiate

Episode I Journal: Darth Maul
The lightsaber whirls in the air, twirling, held in my Master's hand. I can't track it, it moves so fast. But I know it's heading for me.

Lord Sidious moves faster than my eye can follow. I smell heat and smoke. The laser traces the outline of my body, my face, my hands. The buzz is loud in my ear. One flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle, and I am dead.

Vitiate defeating 4-5 of the most powerful and resolute jedi in the galaxy by basically just waving his hand is vastly more impressive imo.

Vitiate being superior to the trio of Revan/meetra/Scourge is also vastly more impressive.

Speed is more important.

Sidious may be faster than Vitiate, but that doesn't mean a blitz of any means is in order, especially considering Vitiate will be telepathicially assaulting Sidious. There are plenty situations where someone slower has fought against someone far faster. Take Darth Maul vs. Pre Vizla, or Darth Maul and Savage Opress vs. darth sidious.

Considering that Maul and Tiin couldn't see/react to Sidious, I don't think so. Both are substantially faster than Vitiate.

Again, Sidious won't be able to blitz while being telepathically assaulted, which gives vitiate plenty of time to utilize far deadlier abilities.

Prove Vitiate will assault Sidious telepathically when Tiin failed to slash him with his lightsaber.

Because all Vitiate has to do is think? He instantly dominated Revan and Malak without even stirring from his chair. Now obviously I know that Vitiate won't successfully dominate Sidious, but obviously it gives him more time to use a more lethal attack.

^What a stupid comment. Prove Sidious will saber rape Vitiate before Vitiate mind rapes him!

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Because all Vitiate has to do is think? He instantly dominated Revan and Malak without even stirring from his chair. Now obviously I know that Vitiate won't successfully dominate Sidious, but obviously it gives him more time to use a more lethal attack.
Sidious moves faster than thought bro.

Sidious won't be blitzing and Vitiate won't be mind controlling.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sidious won't be blitzing and Vitiate won't be mind controlling.

Vitiate might not be as skilled a swordsman as Sidious, but the idea that someone as powerful as he is a sloth next to Sidious is silly.

And the idea that Vitiate is going to put a mind whammy on someone as powerful as Sidious is equally ridiculous.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Vitiate might not be as skilled a swordsman as Sidious, but the idea that someone as powerful as he is a sloth next to Sidious is silly.

And the idea that Vitiate is going to put a mind whammy on someone as powerful as Sidious is equally ridiculous.

I don't think anyone here is saying that Vitiate would simply mind-dominate sidious. However, no one outright resisted it, sans semi-oneness Revan. Therefore, while Sidious will no doubt break the assault, it will have given vitiate more than enough time to utilize a more lethal attack.

Vitiate also had to expend a great deal of energy and concentration to even make the attempt. I don't think it would be to his advantage to try against Sidious.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

Yeah, by ROTS Sidious' force prowess isn't far if at all far from Vitiate, and his saber power is vastly superior.

Originally posted by DanBrown19118
Nope.

Yup.

Nope

Sidious, even by RotS, really doesn't have vitiate beat in the force. In combat, vitiate has only been shown to be defeat-able with a lightsaber, as Revan's (powerful) TK sent an imperial guard just half a step back, because he was simply drawing on Vitiate's power. Palpatine's only chance would be to kill him with his lightsaber, which can go either way.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sidious, even by RotS, really doesn't have vitiate beat in the force. In combat, vitiate has only been shown to be defeat-able with a lightsaber, as Revan's (powerful) TK sent an imperial guard just half a step back, because he was simply drawing on Vitiate's power. Palpatine's only chance would be to kill him with his lightsaber, which can go either way.

Yeah, yeah he does. Sidious' TK by ROTS is way bigger than Revan's. Also Revan sends Vitiate packing twice. Once with his own lightning, the other with his DS+LS TK. Now, because of some bonehead reason, Revan decided to try and redirect the Emperor's Force Storm with his bare hands instead of his lightsaber. Sidious will make no such mistake. Sidious trying to kill Vitiate with his lightsaber can not go either way. Sidious utterly eviscerates Vitate in sabers. In the force it's likely 55/45 Vitiate's favor, perhaps 50/50. But in sabers its 95/5 Sidious. In all out its 65/35 at worst for Sidious.

Except that Revan only sent Vitiate packing once really, and that was because Vitiate was directing a telepathic assault, and Revan would have been dominated had he not done the light-dark release, which was a powerful attack unique to himself, catching Vitiate off-guard. The Emperor proceeds to get right back up after this. The second time, Revan simply redirected a lightning bolt that struck Vitiate square in the chest, causing him to land on the ground. He, again, immediately gets back up and proceeds to destroy Revan. I don't see Sidious ragdolling Vitiate in any way. If Sidious does (which I think he would) pass through the FLS, Vitiate also has the extremely potent stream of lightning that he used to easily overwhelm 4 of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy. Again, Sidious's best chance is with his lightsaber, which can go either way, ending with either Sidious slicing Vitiate to pieces, or with Vitiate overwhelming Sidious with his force abilities.

Yea, not even close.

Vitiate solos. Then Marka Ragnos forms from the abyss and congratulates him.

Well, firstly l'm new to the site so hello everyone.

I believe that Vitiate has the upper hand here. It is really hard to compare when both sides are extremely powerful and never faced each other. However Vitiate's story just beats Sidious'.

Vitiate was badass even as a baby. He easily killed a sith lord at the age of 10 and became one himself at the age of 13. He killed billions with a ritual when he was (only) 100 years old. He was considered a god and remained untouchable for centuries among very powerful rivals in the dark council. I don't think Sidious would survive 300 years as an emperor in that empire.
He never had a master and never bowed to any other being in the galaxy where Sidious needed training with a master to become a dark lord.
He created his own empire and left its organization to dark council. Mean while he studied and mastered the force even more and used his empire's resources for his own search for more power. So if he was so powerful as a lord of 1 planet when only 100 years old, you can imagine the power level he reached as an emperor at the age of 1300.

Sidious has lots of achievements too but it just isn't as enormous as Vitiate's story.

I would say Sidious has the upper hand at saber skills but I don't agree with people who are saying Vitiate sucks at saber fighting since we know nothing about it and it is likely that he never used his saber because he never needed it.

In a 1 on 1 scenario I would say it wouldn't even come to saber fighting as both would attack with dark side force techniques and Vitiate would best him. Vitiate's dark energy and mind control skills would help him too since we know that even Darth Jadus who is lower than Vitiate causes physical illness on people who are near him. Being in the same place with Vitiate would probably be terrifying for any average sith lord and it would certainly help against Sidious.

Also I don't think it is okay to say Sidious knows every teaching of dark side since many characters and events were written after this was said(including Vitiate).

force: Vitiate
saber: sidious
overall: Vitiate

1. Welcome to the forum. Enjoy!

2. Sidious had a master, and they have their own EU book.

3. Imagining badass baby Vitiate is adorable.

Welcome to my domain

I doubt Vitiate' presence would harm palpatine tbh.

1.Thanks!
2.I meant to say Vitiate had no master where Sidious had darth plagueis.
3. Yeah I shouldn't have written that...

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Welcome to my domain

I doubt Vitiate' presence would harm palpatine tbh.

Maybe not directly but Sidious would require a defense for it nevertheless. So it is another advantage of Vitiate against him.

yeah but by that I could just as easily say that Palpatine's presence would harm Vitiate, at least if he chose to outwardly project his dark side-ness. I do believe he has been shown to do so. So basically, considering both sides' being embodiments of pure evil, I don't see either presence affecting the other.

I would say there is a little difference. Being really strong in the force doesn't mean having an effect like that. Sidious remained as a political leader and was always with non-force users in Coruscant. He had a human side. He would have to project his dar side-ness to have that effect on him where Vitiate's simple existence is enough to probably melt someone. Vitiate's original body is simply hidden somewhere and interacting with the galaxy through his voice. Even the thought of his original body and its location is scary. I just don't think Palpatine is as pure evil as Vitiate. Though this doesn't matter since Vitiate wields greater power in general.

Or does he? Does Vitiate truly have a superior grasp of the force to the extent that he'd simply overwhelm palpatine? mental domination wouldn't work, and actually contrary to popular belief, dem telepathic assaults do require effort, so he cant muster some more powerful attack while doing so. That said, Vitiate still has (very) powerful lightning and TK, as does Palpatine. Vitiate, however, is seemingly more difficult to defeat with telekinesis, and therefore I don't see Palpatine defeating him with it. With lightning, some have argued that Vitiate's is actually more powerful, and he does have those lightning storms. Palpatine has obviously his regular very powerful lightning, and force maelstrom, the latter of which would prove useful if Vitiate summons an FLS or utilizes his duplicates. Another factor, however, is that Palpatine seemingly never uses the force maelstrom ability, and therefore most likely wouldn't come into play. But then there's that last factor, palpatine's speed and lightsaber ability. Take the battle as you will, but it's closer than you think.

I absoulutetly agree with you on how close they are. Actually I even have a theory(in my imagination) that they might be connected because they are like each other a lot. Palpatine might be a result of Vitiate's existence in the force.
As for what you said, I think it is impossible to decide a superior sith comparing their force abilities since they are really close though I think Vitiate's lightning and TK are more powerful. That is why I focused on their interactions with others so much. Vitiate has a major superiority in this. Palpatine is more human, more common. Vitiate is like nothing else in SW.
You should be able to see how above he is in general. Palpatine's methods are more feeble and require more from him as a person/politician because his influence in the force isn't powerful enough to dominate everything around him. Vitiate can influence almost everything in the galaxy and was really close to become the galaxy itself. I don't think any other force user has reached such a godly level beyond human concerns.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Or does he? Does Vitiate truly have a superior grasp of the force to the extent that he'd simply overwhelm palpatine? mental domination wouldn't work, and actually contrary to popular belief, dem telepathic assaults do require effort, so he cant muster some more powerful attack while doing so.
How do you know that Vitiate's telepathic influence would not work?

Someone like Palpatine may not be possible to break on the spot but Vitiate can undermine Palpatine's combat effectiveness by maintaining enough telepathic pressure on him to eventually overwhelm him with his powers after a hypothetical clash of decent tenure.

Vitiate have undermined whole Strike Teams (of some of the most powerful Jedi) with his telepathic influence. In-fact, he have possibly even destroyed/killed opponents with just his telepathic abilities.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That said, Vitiate still has (very) powerful lightning and TK, as does Palpatine.
Being the finest Sith Sorcerer, Vitiate specializes in conjuring up most lethal bursts of energies possible on moment's notice. He could conjure up bursts so lethal that he could utterly destroy even the likes of Revan in a matter of seconds with them.

When Vitiate goes all out on any opponent, that opponent ends up dead irrespective how strong.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vitiate, however, is seemingly more difficult to defeat with telekinesis, and therefore I don't see Palpatine defeating him with it. With lightning, some have argued that Vitiate's is actually more powerful, and he does have those lightning storms. Palpatine has obviously his regular very powerful lightning, and force maelstrom, the latter of which would prove useful if Vitiate summons an FLS or utilizes his duplicates.
People beneath Vitiate have Force Maelstrom talent so it is logical to assume that Vitiate would have acquired this talent as well. Heck, Vitiate's Dread Masters have abilities that I have never seen before so it is possible that Vitiate have mysterious abilities that we have never seen before. His purging of his first Dark Council does reflects upon this fact.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Another factor, however, is that Palpatine seemingly never uses the force maelstrom ability, and therefore most likely wouldn't come into play. But then there's that last factor, palpatine's speed and lightsaber ability. Take the battle as you will, but it's closer than you think.
I wouldn't underestimate Vitiate's speed and reflexes because he also have defeated some of the finest swordsmen in the galactic history (finest swordsmen with excellent feats, I may add).

I believe that any incarnation of Palpatine is outmatched in this contest unless DE incarnation is considered. In that case, Sidious have the option to summon Force Storm to even the odds, should he get the opportunity.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
People beneath Vitiate have Force Maelstrom talent so it is logical to assume that Vitiate would have acquired this talent as well. Heck, Vitiate's Dread Masters have abilities that I have never seen before so it is possible that Vitiate have mysterious abilities that we have never seen before. His purging of his first Dark Council does reflects upon this fact.


I agree. We know everything about Sidious but the details of Vitiate's life is still not known and he still hasn't died fully. He only uses enough to stun/destroy his enemies and in 1300 years he must have gained many more tricks and abilities that he isn't using at all. I would even say he is the only one who could challenge the ones and abeloth.

The Emperor wins

Originally posted by Sinious
I agree. We know everything about Sidious but the details of Vitiate's life is still not known and he still hasn't died fully. He only uses enough to stun/destroy his enemies and in 1300 years he must have gained many more tricks and abilities that he isn't using at all. I would even say he is the only one who could challenge the ones and abeloth.

Luke/HoT>>

LeGenD, you are bringing alot of speculation to the table. From what we do in fact know, Vitiate has never utilized and cannot use force maelstrom. However he probably does have knowledge of the ability. Also, he can't prepare another ability while directing a telepathic assault, he's never shown the aptitude to do so. Doing said telepathic assaults require large effort on Vitiate's part for them to be effective. He overwhelmed said strike team after pwning them with an FLS, it wasn't purely an assault.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
LeGenD, you are bringing alot of speculation to the table.
Appropriate term is "informed assumptions."

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
From what we do in fact know, Vitiate has never utilized and cannot use force maelstrom.
Cannot use Force maelstrom? Do you realize how illogical this sounds? Their is not a dark side ability that Vitiate cannot master and use. Vitiate was/is naturally (immensely) gifted in the use of the dark side since birth.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
However he probably does have knowledge of the ability.
This:

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen.

Try to comprehend.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Also, he can't prepare another ability while directing a telepathic assault, he's never shown the aptitude to do so. Doing said telepathic assaults require large effort on Vitiate's part for them to be effective. He overwhelmed said strike team after pwning them with an FLS, it wasn't purely an assault.
Who told you this?

Vitiate can simultaneously perform several actions and he was actually doing this; manipulating the environment of Dromund Kaas; siphoning energies from other individuals; controlling his children; and more.

Vitiate is not restricted in the use of the Force in the manner like mortals are. His capacity as a practitioner of the Force vastly increased after he acquired unnatural form.

Here is canonical description of Vitiate's duel with the Jedi Strike Team in question:

The plan to invade the Emperor's fortress succeeds beyond Master Braga's greatest ambitions. However, the Jedi find more than they bargained for when they finally confront the Sith leader in his lair. The Emperor is more than a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (SWTORE, Page 92)

Vitiate's command of telepathic applications is not a black and white phenomenon. He decides how much he wants to exert with his telepathic abilities. He can choose to go all out with his telepathic abilities or simply put pressure on opposition, simultaneously using other powers to suppress the opposition.

Check this thread and enlighten yourself: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t587136.html

Malgus invented Force Maelstrom as I recall. I see no reason why he would share the technique with Vitiate.

But LeGenD you see, even if he might be able to use force maelstrom, he's never used it in combat. Why would he use it now? Kind of like when I said Palpatine's use of it probably wouldn't come into play either, considering his rare use of the ability.

From Revan's own battle with vitiate. Read this:

"The Emperor, unprepared, and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan, was sent flying backward."

Meaning that utilizing said assault while trying to gain a significant advantage requires effort.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
But LeGenD you see, even if he might be able to use force maelstrom, he's never used it in combat. Why would he use it now? Kind of like when I said Palpatine's use of it probably wouldn't come into play either, considering his rare use of the ability.
Fair enough

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
From Revan's own battle with vitiate. Read this:

"The Emperor, unprepared, and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan, was sent flying backward."

Meaning that utilizing said assault while trying to gain a significant advantage requires effort.
I think that this is an extreme example to consider and rather leads to misleading conclusions. Revan had developed a special counter-measure against Vitiate's telepathic influence and this is why Vitiate had to exert lot more then he typically would to break Revan again. However, Vitiate was interrupted when Revan unleashed a blast of power to stop him. In previous encounter, Vitiate broke both Revan and Malak simultaneously with a fraction of his telepathic influence. This affirms that even a minor mental brush of Vitiate can significantly disturb his opponents who have never experienced this power before and have no countermeasure against it; Scourge's experience with a minor mental brush from Vitiate is additional proof. Vitiate can disturb others with his mere presence (this implies that even minimum telepathic influence on his part can be problematic for his opposition).

Imagine trying to duel Vitiate with a severe headache and seeds of doubt being sown by the former as well.

I wouldn't dismiss the mind domination out of hand. Revan's block method required some first hand knowledge of the technique and some woo woo magic bullshit that used both sides of the Force. It wasn't well explained, but it seems unlikely to think that just anyone could resist because of will, something we can't measure at all here.

But Sidious swayed Byss under his mental domination, which obviously means he can resist Vitiate. Because he did that over a few decades through unknown means, it totally proves he can marshall that same level of ability in a fight.

Absolutely, I don't know how I could have been mistaken. The feats are virtually identical as Revan and Malak being dominated instantly.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
How do you know that Vitiate's telepathic influence would not work?

Someone like Palpatine may not be possible to break on the spot but Vitiate can undermine Palpatine's combat effectiveness by maintaining enough telepathic pressure on him to eventually overwhelm him with his powers after a hypothetical clash of decent tenure.

Vitiate have undermined whole Strike Teams (of some of the most powerful Jedi) with his telepathic influence. In-fact, he have possibly even destroyed/killed opponents with just his telepathic abilities.



This is Darth Sidious we're talking about - people of his level do not get mentally dominated by anyone.

Originally posted by The Exiled
This is Darth Sidious we're talking about - people of his level do not get mentally dominated by anyone.

He would not be effected by Vitiate's presence I give you that but that doesn't mean Vitiate's mind domination power wouldn't work on him. It would at least require a lot of effort to defend against it and it would weaken Palpatine which gives Vitiate an advantage. Though Vitiate could never take full control over Palpatine. No one can.

Originally posted by The Exiled
This is Darth Sidious we're talking about - people of his level do not get mentally dominated by anyone.

How can you accurately gauge this though? Revan was a Force beast in his own right, explicitly strong, smart, strong willed, and stubborn. He fell instantly at first, and only survived the second attempt due to again, first hand knowledge and drawing on both sides of the Force (two things Sids has not shown how to do). Vitiate than tortured the guy mentally across space for three hundred years while playing roulette with his pawns at the same time.

Vitiate's level of mental dominance exceeds anything we've seen in the mythos.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
He fell instantly at first

SWTORE says 'it only took a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power" to dominate them though.

Mhm. Revan goes out its way as a novel to pretty much establish how much hgher Vitiate was in comparison with the title character.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Mhm. Revan goes out its way as a novel to pretty much establish how much hgher Vitiate was in comparison with the title character.

No it doesn't. SWTOR source material stating he "nearly assassinated the Sith Emperor" does not suggest the massed degree of difference you are suggesting.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No it doesn't. SWTOR source material stating he "nearly assassinated the Sith Emperor" does not suggest the massed degree of difference you are suggesting.

Read the book, bro. Your broad assertion based on a reference to an actual event described in an actual source is troubling.

He didn't "nearly assassinate" anybody. He was just the closest one to the feat than anyone before him and anyone after him other than the HoT.

Also the Exile got closer really.

So did T3. T3 > Everyone.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So did T3. T3 > Everyone.

I hate it so much when a stupid droid is essential in a situation where you have to fight and survive a Sith Emperor. If that's the case why don't the jedi bring 5 of these little droids to guarantee their victory.
Maybe Emperor's elite guards should be these droids too.

To be fair, T3 defeated 3 HK-50's by himself in Kotor 2. He wasn't just some crappy astromech.

You don't yet comprehend the Truth; T3 is the first coming of R2, our mechanical Lord and Savior. And Barriss is his Prophet.

Originally posted by Sinious
I hate it so much when a stupid droid is essential in a situation where you have to fight and survive a Sith Emperor. If that's the case why don't the jedi bring 5 of these little droids to guarantee their victory.
Maybe Emperor's elite guards should be these droids too.
http://replygif.net/i/980.gif

Well yeah that's what I'm saying. Why is a machine relevant against Vitiate? The weakest force user should be considered more powerful to any non force user. Same thing applies to Mandalorians. The importance of force is underestimated sometimes. A force user has full control over his/her surroundings. Only another force user should have a defense against it.

^^^

Droids can be remarkably strong and dangerous warriors in their own right. Just look at the examples of Terminators to understand why.

Your point is valid in the context that machines shouldn't be relevant against someone as powerful as Vitiate; and this is actually true.

T3-M4 was not relevant against Vitiate. The droid prevented Revan's death for sure but its attack (while lethal to biota in general) didn't undermine Vitiate. In-fact, the poor droid ended-up all but atomized in response.

Still you should respect T3-M4 for its strengths. It was/is among the top (droid) combatants of the mythos.

But EU canon craps all over that. You have Mandos being legitimate threats to Jedi without the benefit of Force TK defense, something established when Exar Kun first came to be introduced during early Jedi Academy days. You have the TOR muggles who are somehow being excepted from TK used by the same guy that kills other muggles casually.

Hero Plot Induced Immunity.

And again, T3 is divine.

^^^

Actually G-canon established Mandalorians as a threat to Jedi.

Remember Jango Fett killing a Jedi and giving Obi-Wan and Mace Windu some challenge?

Originally posted by Sinious
I hate it so much when a stupid droid is essential in a situation where you have to fight and survive a Sith Emperor. If that's the case why don't the jedi bring 5 of these little droids to guarantee their victory.
Maybe Emperor's elite guards should be these droids too.



Yeah, it's ****in stupid. The best is when Vitiate uses the "full power of the Force" to destroy it...

T3 was only relevant because Vitiate deemed him so insignificant that he wasn't paying attentionto him.

I agree with Stealth.

T3 is divine.

T3-M4 restored faith in droids.

T3 was only the herald for the coming glory of T7-O1.

God-Emperor of Droids.

I enjoyed having the droid with me in Kotor so I got no problem with it.
Im saying the droid shouldn't be relevant cause force users sense other people's reflexes and can prepare a defense for it. Vitiate should have been able to sense the droid's maneuver and crush the droid before it interferes wit Vitiate's business. Those droids are useful to have around for technical reasons but not in battles.

Same with Mandalorians. A jedi should be able to sense everything a mandalorian is about to do in battle since they can't protect them selves from the influence of the force. They could be an asset when led by a force user but a civilization with no force users should never be a threat against the republic. I don't mind it cause it makes the EU richer but the T3's effect on Vitiate's execution is just silly. I mean the guy claims that his will cannot be effected and everything is within his control. Though its not entirely true, I think he is at least in a state where a droid cannot effect his plans.

Dedicated to dear Sinious:

You hear that Max Revan? Your stupid camera T3-M4 saved your stupid life.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Read the book, bro. Your broad assertion based on a reference to an actual event described in an actual source is troubling.

The book actually says the Exile could have killed Vitiate but at the cost of Revan's life.

Originally posted by Nephthys
T3 was only the herald for the coming glory of T7-O1.

God-Emperor of Droids.

Who is in turn an avatar for R2-D2. ALL HAIL!

http://grundrisse.org/mirror/xkcd_explained/24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kyp6l2nwo41qao43ho1_500.png

Don't forget HK!

HK is like the John the Baptist archetype.

He baptised them in fire.

I need to get the HK clone in TOR.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dedicated to dear Sinious:

You hear that Max Revan? Your stupid camera T3-M4 saved your stupid life.

See even that quote is based on being lucky so maybe Revan was lucky too but I thought there was no such thing as luck.
Obi-wan was lying

Palpatine.

DE Sourcebook is old and Plagueyususis novel confirms that Sidious did not know Vitiate well and even implies he did not understand the nature of Vitiate's body hopping. Vitiate achieved what Sidious failed, which is physical longevity and effective immortality.

EDIT. This was in reply to something someone said that is now not on this page anymore wtf.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I need to get the HK clone in TOR.

You should. He has quotes in the realm of:

'I kill to serve!'
'Give my best wishes to The Maker!'
'You're already dead! Just lie down!'

I enjoy the fear my SI's butlerbot doles out. His tears are delicious.

Guess who else discovered physical immortality and ended up sub-par to Sidious in combat and Force power???

Plagueis.

Sidious could kill Vitiate in combat, even if the likes of Exar Kun are far more skilled at ritualistic sorcery - the Dathomirians are in The Courtship of Princess Leia and TCW: Season 3; as well.