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First Son

I got dem reflexes

I disagree. sly

Your move.

Well, I believe the First Son actually would have defeated the Barsen'thor, just as Vitiate would have defeated the HoT. Why? There is one game mechanic in the fight with the first son that I think is most likely canon: Will of Syo. With this ability, the first son suspends you in mid air, and actually starts healing you with the force. This represents Syo momentarily breaking through the dark conscience bestowed upon him by the emperor. If this were to not occur, the player has virtually no chance of beating the first son, much like the HoT wouldn't have beaten Vitiate, was orgus din not shielding the hero's mind.

also one unique game mechanic he has is "collapse cavern", where obviously he tries to TK the cavern down.

Okay. So the FIrst Son >/= Barsen'thor.

That has nothing to do with Satele.

The Barsen'thor is stronger than satele

The Barsen'thor, while not having displayed any saber feats of note, has displayed force feats that outstrip Satele's by quite a margin. Satele's best force feat was the kamehameha, which she was only seen doing by drawing in the power from Malgus's lightsaber lunge that she earlier blocked. The Barsen'thor has easily opened an enormous blast door, thrown a large hunk of metal a very long distance, defeated mega-amped lord vivicar, etc. Satele is actually not as impressive as people think in saber combat, she was thrashed by Malgus twice. That said, she'll never get the chance to absorb any lightsaber energy, as the First Son strictly uses force abilities, like turning completely invisible/TK/lightning, lightning that has blasted the barsen'thor a good distance back with just 1 bolt.

The Barsen'thor is stronger than Satele!

No, she's really not.


"The Barsen'thor has ripped open an enormous blast door and threw a giant hunk of metal a great distance!"

And Satele has literally broken a blast door into pieces effortlessly, collapsed a mountain, and easily dismantled droids that were made to kill Jedi.


"A weakened Barsen'thor defeated Lord Vivicar, who was siphoning power from tens of Jedi Masters!"

And yet his power was insufficient to ascend to the rank of Dark Council member. Still, the fact that she defeated a Sith Lord of this level while weakened is indeed impressive. However, I don't see how this puts her above Satele, who I believe during her prime was stated to be the Emperor's greatest foe.


"Satele can't absorb lightsaber energy to use huge TK blasts because the First Son only uses the Force!"

You know how Tutaminis works, right? If she can absorb lightsaber blades with her hands, she can absorb lightning too. And that, my friend, the First Son does use.


"Satele has no lightsaber feats of note! She was beaten by Malgus!"

She was defeated by Malgus during the Battle of Alderaan, which was a little ways before her prime yet, and even then she fared much better against a stronger version of him than Kao-Cen Darach did--And Kao-Cen was the reigning Jedi BattleMaster.

During her peak, she actually stalemated Darth Baras in a lightsaber duel, but was forced to retreat when Darth Angral killed Dar'Nala. If that's not a good saberfeat, than I suppose the Emperor's Wrath is a pushover.

:facepalm:

That blast door was small, and wasn't Satele using shatterpoint? The mountain feat, again, was only made possible through saber-tutaminis. Good for her.

:facepalm:

So what if he's not dark council member level? The Barsen'thor was weakened, was FAR, FAR before her prime, and still managed to defeat Vivicar.

Except she won't be able to create a huge TK blast by absorbing lightning. Plus do you actually think she can just block the lightning when the First Son can turn invisible to undermine her defenses, especially considering her very first tactic is to engage her opponent in lightsaber combat?

Except Darach just got through pwning Vindican and Malgus SIMULTANEOUSLY, and Malgus had to use brute strength and a rage enhancement to defeat Ddarach, who was most likely tired due to all the ataru acrobatics. Actually, she didn't fare much better, Darach did much better.

I've heard that was a very brief lightsaber duel...

The blast door was small, and Satele was using shatterpoint!

So? She broke it into pieces, that's at least comparable! Also--There's no indication she was using shatterpoint. All we saw was her casually smash it with TK.


But the Barsen'thor beat Vivicar while weakened FAR FAR before her prime.

If you can prove that she was "far" beyond her prime, that'd be nice. Really, even if it's only halfway through her story arc--While surely she became more powerful, it's up to you to show me just how dramatically her powers improved. Because to me, it seems most of her feats you're providing were before she beat Vivicar.


But the lightning won't provide the same amount of energy as the lightsaber!

So? It will still provide an alternative energy source to amp her beyond her already high capabilities.


Kao-Cen Darach simultaniously took on Malgus AND Vindican. She did way worse than him.

I don't see your point. Once Malgus tapped into his rage, Darach was completely overpowered. The Malgus that Satele fought was superior. When he fought Darach, he was an apprentice--When he fought Satele he was a "Darth".


That lightsaber duel was very brief!

They engage twice. The first time was very brief, in the first volume of a set of 3 comics. The second time, near the end of the 3rd comic, was quite a bit longer.

1. Also, how thick was the blast door satele shattered? Because the one the Barsen'thor blasts open (easily, with 1 hand) was the height of a 2 story building, and very thick as well

2. It's only common sense. Take the Hero of Tython, for example. He improves so dramatically that from act 2 to act 3 he goes from getting effortlessly pwned by the emperor to actually defeating the emperor.

3. Perhaps, but you failed to address the other point I made.

4. Again, you've failed to address my other point. Darach just got done from doing all sorts of crazy ataru bs to pwn vindican/malgus, so he was most definitely tired, especially for a brute strength rage malgus to come in and overpower him (not outskill him). Satele, on the other hand, had to rely on the force mid fight (about 14 seconds, probably less) to not get overpowered by Malgus's saber lock, then got her saber cut in half about 10 seconds later. She gets royally outclassed by Malgus. Malgus may have been stronger at this point, but Darach still did much, much better.

5. kk

Oh wait, Vivicar was being amped by HUNDREDS of jedi masters...

Which Satale are we talking about?

I'd still probably go with the First Son though no matter.

Edit: Also Vivicar wasn't even a member of the Empire, why would he go for the Dark Council. And it has nothing to do with power. Hell, he was talking about how he'd soon be more powerful than the Emperor!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which Satale are we talking about?

I'd still probably go with the First Son though no matter.

Edit: Also Vivicar wasn't even a member of the Empire, why would he go for the Dark Council. And it has nothing to do with power. Hell, he was talking about how he'd soon be more powerful than the Emperor!



I might go as far to say that the first son is the 2nd strongest (singular) being in the Empire.

Very likely to be true. The only reason he doesn't get more accolades is because no one knows he exists. Also the Barsen'thor and his companion still nearly get owned by him.

Believe it or not, the First Son would have beaten the barsen'thor and his companion, were it not for Syo's interference, which is shown by a unique game mechanic in which he heals you mid-fight. If this game mechanic were to not be carried out, you would inevitably lose the fight each time.

The determined Consular launches a last-ditch assault against the First Son's hiding place. In a climatic final battle with the galaxy at stake, these two masters of the Force cross sabers. The Consular ultimately defeats the First Son and emerges victorious. Without the First Son's protection, the Children of the Emperor are revealed to the Jedi, allowing the Republic to steel itself against the Empire. Meanwhile the Consular is saluted as a hero of the order, ready for whatever challenges lie ahead. (SWTORE, Page 99)

Accolade for the First Son

Nah, I still think the Barsen'thor could beat the First Son without Syo helping.

Perhaps, but the Barsen'thor is quite a margin above Satele by that point.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The Barsen'thor is stronger than Satele!

No, she's really not.

Yes, she really is. Beating Vivicar and the First Son is above anything Satale has done, and her TK feats are above those of Satale's.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
"The Barsen'thor has ripped open an enormous blast door and threw a giant hunk of metal a great distance!"

And Satele has literally broken a blast door into pieces effortlessly, collapsed a mountain, and easily dismantled droids that were made to kill Jedi.

Satale smashing that door isn't as impressive as the ones the Barsen'thor has broken. It was merely head height and was fairly thin, not comparable to:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/987fe392f1ff526beec47ae6dbc1d448/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o2_500.png

or:

g8-cY5k10Wo

11.00 onwards. Those vault doors are said in SWTORE to be 'impregnable.'

And lets not forget that the chunk of metal the Barsen'thor tosses around was the size of a freaking school bus.

Satale did not collapse a 'mountain', it was a small cliff made of rock and she only smashes the bottom of it. Watch the trailer again at 4.20 and you can see how tall the cliff is and how much damage she causes:

1ToztqqDcaY

Originally posted by NewGuy01
"A weakened Barsen'thor defeated Lord Vivicar, who was siphoning power from tens of Jedi Masters!"

And yet his power was insufficient to ascend to the rank of Dark Council member. Still, the fact that she defeated a Sith Lord of this level while weakened is indeed impressive. However, I don't see how this puts her above Satele, who I believe during her prime was stated to be the Emperor's greatest foe.

As I said Vivicar wasn't interested in the Dark Council as he was a spirit and not affiliated with the Empire. And as XSUPREMEXSKILLZ said it was actually hundreds of Jedi Masters who he was siphoning power from, making this an incredibly good feat, especially since the Barsen'thor had to fight through a Star Destroyer full of his mentally dominated republic troops, a few of which were augmented by Sith Sorcery, to get to him. And all of this while weakened from repeated use of the Shielding Technique, including having to use it twice on Yuon Par after defeating her while shes possessed by Vivicar right before going to fight him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01 "Satele can't absorb lightsaber energy to use huge TK blasts because the First Son only uses the Force!"

You know how Tutaminis works, right? If she can absorb lightsaber blades with her hands, she can absorb lightning too. And that, my friend, the First Son does use.

This is true, but even in terms of defense the Barsen'thor equals her as they tank an explosion to the face that blasts a hole in a blast door. Nonetheless the First Son is able to smack her around with lightning at the start of the fight.

OUtside of just this response, I'll point out that the First Son was able to shield the presence of hundreds of the Emperor's Children.

I won't deny that the Barsen'thor is easily the greater Force Wielder--But make no mistake that Satele would whoop her ass in a lightsaber duel.

And the Barsen'thor can keep it from becoming a lightsaber duel, forcing a Force duel or simply blocking Satales lightsaber with a shield like she does against the First Son.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And the Barsen'thor can keep it from becoming a lightsaber duel, forcing a Force duel or simply blocking Satales lightsaber with a shield like she does against the First Son.

yeah newguy I actually found that video where if you choose the ds choice the first son disarms you with TK then attempts to slice you. Barsen proceeds to block the attack with the force and force pushes her back.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And the Barsen'thor can keep it from becoming a lightsaber duel, forcing a Force duel or simply blocking Satales lightsaber with a shield like she does against the First Son.

By that logic she'd crush the Hero of Tython.

The Hero's more powerful than her and has weathered attacks from a more powerful being than the Barsen'thor. They can take her.

Satale isn't really comparable to the Hero imo.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
By that logic she'd crush the Hero of Tython.

No. The Hero of Tython is much stronger than Satele...

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Hero's more powerful than her and has weathered attacks from a more powerful being than the Barsen'thor. They can take her.

Satale isn't really comparable to the Hero imo.

That said, I don't think the Barsen'thor is that far below the Hero. If the Hero is Yoda, the Barsen'thor is Windu (only better).

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
No. The Hero of Tython is much stronger than Satele...

Not as a Force Wielder he's not.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not as a Force Wielder he's not.

um, irrelevant? we're talking about lightsaber here.

Yes, and it has nothing to do with lightsaber skills whether or not the Barsen'thor can Telekinetically stop his assault then destroy him with the Force, is it?

Except the Hero uses the force to enhance his physical skills/capabilities?

Hero of Tython is actually immensely powerful in the ways of the Force. He was noted to possess "Jedi Master like abilities" when he was just a padawan; by the end of his story arc, he could be as good as Luke.

HoT once forced a "gigantic laser bridge" to close without even a gesture when an army of droids was walking through it to reach his position, causing the army to fall between the peaks. In addition, he have feats of collapsing portions of structures and vice versa much earlier in his story arc.

Problem with HoT is that he is not much explored in the ways of the Force in canon. However, he is extremely good in Jedi arts.

----

And yes, First Son is apparently among the most powerful Force-users of all times; among the (very) elite.

The only noteworthy uses of the Force the Hero performs is in the DS choices, mentally dominating Tol Braga and ragdolling a defeated Vitiate.

Other than their defensive abilities, which are clearly top tier.