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now i know people want to jump in and act as if the thugs are canon fodder and batman wins like a walk in the park.
now lets stop for a second and think rationally.
50 buffed thugs, all jumping at him ... its not a movie scene where they fight him 1 after the other, its 50 big thugs with probably some basic boxing and street fighting knowledge jumping at him.
can batman win?

What is the battlefield like?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What is the battlefield like?

the streets, an open field.

Streets or a field? Night time, broad daylight?

Batman would be hard pressed without his gadgets etc, but he will win.

Batman easily he easily did it in Arkham City......uhuh

batman kills them all in under 6 mins

Batman, easily. That's just how comics work.

Same would be true of any high street level fighter

Um no he gays shanked and left in the street to bleed out

So basically Batman is fighting in a "burly brawl" like the one in Matrix Re-Loaded, without any weapons? He puts up a good fight, but the numbers are too much. No way to keep from getting swarmed without his gadgets.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
So basically Batman is fighting in a "burly brawl" like the one in Matrix Re-Loaded, without any weapons? He puts up a good fight, but the numbers are too much. No way to keep from getting swarmed without his gadgets.

I agree

Didn't Batman do this in No Man's Land?

finally i see some sense in people.
it seems like many people over here treat numbers like some fodder that doesnt mean anything.
i wanted people to start and really put the thought into the numbers, i know batman is >>>> a street thug, but think about the numbers and imagine 50 of those fighting him at once.
i dont think he can avoid from getting eventually pinned and owned by 50 guys.
while he is busy with fighting off lets say 5 - 10, others can tackle him, grab his legs and take him down, jump on him from behind ... batman just cant overcome 50 people in a straight up fight

When he was 24, Batman took on groups of trained assassins and fought for 28 hours straight in a deathmatch. And won.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111119363/3245232-zero+year.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111119363/3245234-norway.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111119363/3245235-legend.png

yes but how many assassins did he fight at once? just because he got the stamina to fight for long periods of time does not mean he can overcome 50 thugs swarming at him all at once.

also as we see in this scan he fought something 5 people and after he took out the first 2 the third was already chocking him, after he took him out the other one hits him making him bleed, thats exactly what i was talking about, he cannot fend off such numbers all at once.
now imagine 50 people from all directions, he cant win.

I think at one point he was doing 28 at once? This was also before Year 1 - when he has 0 experience. And just fights blindly. A n00b.

But these weren't street thugs. All trained killers. Who would last longer than an average street thug.

I mean, how long do you think it would take to do this to all of them?

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Martial%20Arts/Knowledge/gothamknights7-batouch.jpg

Don't fall into the trap of applying real world logic to comic books.

Also, how many guys do you think can swarm him at once? Have these 50 guys trained together, and knows everyone's moves? They're more likely to get in each other's way, and he'd only be fighting at any one time, perhaps 5/6? Not 50 at once. The guys at the back won't even get a look in.

Batman gets dogpiled. Not by random thugs, but by the craziest of the crazy, Arkham Asylumn:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/shadowofthebat3-batvsarkhamrogues1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/shadowofthebat3-batvsarkhamrogues2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/shadowofthebat3-batvsarkhamrogues3.jpg

Being dogpiled by thugs. With guns. Looks to me about 50 of them:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob3.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob4.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob5.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob6.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob7.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob8.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, how many guys do you think can swarm him at once? Have these 50 guys trained together, and knows everyone's moves? They're more likely to get in each other's way, and he'd only be fighting at any one time, perhaps 5/6? Not 50 at once. The guys at the back won't even get a look in.

I indeed think that they would get in the way of each other, they'd need to be pretty in sync to be really effective against someone with Bruce's mobility.

Originally posted by Bentley
I indeed think that they would get in the way of each other, they'd need to be pretty in sync to be really effective against someone with Bruce's mobility.

Especially, if say, they had an incentive to fight Batman - $1 million to the guy who knocks him out.

Even if they were all a team, and were perfectly in sync with each other (doubtful), Batman would only be fighting 5 or 6 of them at a time, due to space. Giving them skills (as per the OP, basic boxing and street fighting) makes it worse for them, because it gives them a semblance of predictability (unlike, say, fighting Arkham inmates).

If he wants to take his sweet time, he'd still have all the endurance needed to go the distance (as seen when he fought nonstop for 28 hours), whereas these 50 thugs would be gasping for breath after going a few rounds with him. He could play cat and mouse, and take them down.

And if we ignore the sake of plot, and just have Batman fighting at his best? It'll only take a few minutes to take them all out with pressure point attacks.

Originally posted by Alias Stone
Um no he gets shanked and left in the street to bleed out

Not answering just correcting

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, how many guys do you think can swarm him at once? Have these 50 guys trained together, and knows everyone's moves? They're more likely to get in each other's way, and he'd only be fighting at any one time, perhaps 5/6? Not 50 at once. The guys at the back won't even get a look in.

Yea, exactly. Too many try and attack at once and it just limits them.


Numbers matter, they matter a lot, but at the same time there is a point of maximum threat based on how many can apply force to the same limited area at one time. Numbers beyond the maximum for that purely make it an endurance issue, and if the individual strength is low enough, then even that small number combined isn't going to be sufficient strength.

Originally posted by wolverinos
yes but how many assassins did he fight at once? just because he got the stamina to fight for long periods of time does not mean he can overcome 50 thugs swarming at him all at once.

also as we see in this scan he fought something 5 people and after he took out the first 2 the third was already chocking him, after he took him out the other one hits him making him bleed, thats exactly what i was talking about, he cannot fend off such numbers all at once.
now imagine 50 people from all directions, he cant win. I took MA for many years and have experience with groups of people jjumping a single individual. No one ever attacks at the same time or in complete unison (but in broken cadence). Batman is a bullet timer and master at pressure points and super human by real life's standards. He can one shot each thug and win in less than a minute. This is spite really.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, how many guys do you think can swarm him at once? Have these 50 guys trained together, and knows everyone's moves? They're more likely to get in each other's way, and he'd only be fighting at any one time, perhaps 5/6? Not 50 at once. The guys at the back won't even get a look in.

basically there is space for 6 people at once to attack someone effectively. however people can jump on top of him and just dog pile him.
i know its hard to apply real life logic to comics because in comics you see him tossing away like 10 people, however 10 people are weighting more than he can lift to begin with.
in comics they are not fighting to their full potential they are fodder.
however if 50 guys really fought someone like batman he would be doomed.
he cant react to people comming at him from all directions he is not that fast and not that strong.

Originally posted by h1a8
I took MA for many years and have experience with groups of people jjumping a single individual. No one ever attacks at the same time or in complete unison (but in broken cadence). Batman is a bullet timer and master at pressure points and super human by real life's standards. He can one shot each thug and win in less than a minute. This is spite really.

i am a martial artist myself and let me tell you something, if multiple attackers from different directions are able to circle you , then you are done.
thinking otherwise = not knowing much about fighting but rather living in a fantasy land.

if 50 people go at him all at once even if there is only space for 6 people at a time they will still surround him and take him down, he cannot react to 6 different angles and directions at the same time, in order to do that you got to have a super human speed.

and as much as i know your average street thug has minimal knowledge of street fighting and can easily apply something such as a choke, jump to his legs and take him down, hit to the tample, hit to the balls from behind, in comics they are not applying anything, however if batman really had to fight 50 people who are going at him with some minimal brain he is done.

Superhuman speed....which Batman has. Especially by normal real world human standards.

Like I said before....how long do you think it would take for him to pressure point them all, use their limp bodies as a shield, or grabbing them by the ankle and whirling them around (as seen in the scans I showed)..


The guy routinely benches 1000lbs. And at the same time, has the agility, speed and skills to apply that strength. That's not human.

Originally posted by wolverinos
i am a martial artist myself and let me tell you something, if multiple attackers from different directions are able to circle you , then you are done.
thinking otherwise = not knowing much about fighting but rather living in a fantasy land.


That's your problem right there. Batman exists in a fantasy land, where he CAN and WILL win against these odds.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superhuman speed....which Batman has. Especially by normal real world human standards.

Like I said before....how long do you think it would take for him to pressure point them all, use their limp bodies as a shield, or grabbing them by the ankle and whirling them around (as seen in the scans I showed)..


The guy routinely benches 1000lbs. And at the same time, has the agility, speed and skills to apply that strength. That's not human.

if i am not mistaken batman does not have super human speed.
batman is faster than the average person no doubt, but that fast to counter 6 people comming from all directions? and probably 2 more jumping on top? he cant, and there have been plenty of fights where thugs with pipes or chains hurt him in the comics before.

do you think they will just stand there and let him do his pressure points? he hits 1 -2 people and 6 more are already hitting him with punches and kicks, he is taking them out while another wave is attacking him.
hell whats stopping them from just jumping on him and dog pile him? just because thugs never act like that in comics does not mean they cant its like its a constant PIS with thugs.
however PIS off and the thugs are actually fighting? they will take him down with such numbers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's your problem right there. Batman exists in a fantasy land, where he CAN and WILL win against these odds.

even in comics there is still some logic.
thugs in comics hurt batman before when they were actually fighting.
basically by your logic no matter how many thugs you throw at him he will just defeat everybody H2H? by your logic even 1000000 thugs vs batman will lose to him? hell the US should send him to IRAN to take everybody down H2H in that case.

Originally posted by wolverinos
if i am not mistaken batman does not have super human speed.
batman is faster than the average person no doubt, but that fast to counter 6 people comming from all directions? and probably 2 more jumping on top? he cant, and there have been plenty of fights where thugs with pipes or chains hurt him in the comics before.

do you think they will just stand there and let him do his pressure points? he hits 1 -2 people and 6 more are already hitting him with punches and kicks, he is taking them out while another wave is attacking him.
hell whats stopping them from just jumping on him and dog pile him? just because thugs never act like that in comics does not mean they cant its like its a constant PIS with thugs.
however PIS off and the thugs are actually fighting? they will take him down with such numbers.

Problem is, there comes a limit with PIS - Batman does it so regularly (same with Kingpin, Captain America etc) that you can't just classify him as human.

Taking out multiple police officers (who are obv trained) who all have their guns trained on him:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/lotdk165-batblinkspeed1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/lotdk165-batblinkspeed2.jpg

And again:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batman282-batcyclone2.jpg

As for speed, he can catch Impulse:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/impulse50-batimpulse1.jpg

Armed thugs attacking him from all sides:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Gunfire/detective743-batgunrush.jpg

I mean, the guy PUNCHES bullets out of the air. That is not mere human speed:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/004.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbulletblock.jpg

And catches arrows shot at him from behind, not just by Roy Harper:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batarsenal-batarrow.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batarsenal-batarrow2.jpg

But also Ollie:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/jla80pagegiant2-batgarrow.jpg

Originally posted by wolverinos
even in comics there is still some logic.
thugs in comics hurt batman before when they were actually fighting.
basically by your logic no matter how many thugs you throw at him he will just defeat everybody H2H? by your logic even 1000000 thugs vs batman will lose to him? hell the US should send him to IRAN to take everybody down H2H in that case.

The numbers don't really matter - its the 300 principle.

At any one time, only 6 will be attacking. The others won't even be able to get close to him. Then its simply a matter of his endurance - and I've shown him in combat against trained assassins (so nothing he could end in 1 or 2 moves) for 28 hours.

I get what you're trying to do with this thread - you wanted to see Batman bleeding and defeated. He may bleed, but he won't be defeated.

And as for comic book logic - yes, there is an internal comic logic. And that is that Batman is so far above mere humans, that defeating 10 rounds of 5 people each isn't out of the realms of possibility for him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Problem is, there comes a limit with PIS - Batman does it so regularly (same with Kingpin, Captain America etc) that you can't just classify him as human.

Taking out multiple police officers (who are obv trained) who all have their guns trained on him:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/lotdk165-batblinkspeed1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/lotdk165-batblinkspeed2.jpg

And again:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batman282-batcyclone2.jpg

As for speed, he can catch Impulse:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/impulse50-batimpulse1.jpg

Armed thugs attacking him from all sides:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Gunfire/detective743-batgunrush.jpg

I mean, the guy PUNCHES bullets out of the air. That is not mere human speed:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/004.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbulletblock.jpg

And catches arrows shot at him from behind, not just by Roy Harper:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batarsenal-batarrow.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/batarsenal-batarrow2.jpg

But also Ollie:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Agility-Speed/Speed/jla80pagegiant2-batgarrow.jpg

police officers did not try to fight him they were pointing their guns at him and did not expect him to charge.if they were attacking him like the thugs in this scenario and there would be 50 of them the outcome could have been different.

batman did not catch bullets he only put his arm infront to block because he knew the mobsters would be shooting at him directly.

getting out of the fire direction of 3 gunman and snapping their rifles doesnt prove much.

as always guns pointed at him and he snatch them =/= beilg faster than a bullet, just him being faster then the average human reaction.

as i said earlier he is faster stronger more skilled and better than probably any thug, however 50 of them jumping at him from all directions and actually fighting with at least the IQ of 20 they will take him down.

So I guess you ignored my previous scans then of Batman getting mobbed? As well as catching impulse (a legit speedster), catching arrows fired at his back etc etc?

And you're going to dismiss all the instances of him beating mobs...because it doesn't fit in with your real world logic?

He does things that no human does. Even peak, not just average. You keep bandying the 50 number around....when it doesn't mean anything, as he'd only be fighting a certain amount of them at any one time.

They all dogpile him, say. How many will he immediately next to him, 2? 3? As he's laying on the ground. Great, they're pressure pointed. What is tthe guy on the top of the dogpile going to do,magically attack him through all the bodies??

I raised a few points in this post, so make sure you answer al of them!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman gets dogpiled. Not by random thugs, but by the craziest of the crazy, Arkham Asylumn:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/shadowofthebat3-batvsarkhamrogues1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/shadowofthebat3-batvsarkhamrogues2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/shadowofthebat3-batvsarkhamrogues3.jpg

Being dogpiled by thugs. With guns. Looks to me about 50 of them:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob3.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob4.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob5.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob6.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob7.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Mobs-Teams/Skill/detective726-batvshipmob8.jpg

It send OP wanted this thread to show Batman dying.

I'm not saying that I don't see a situation off him losing but of he wanted to do that then he should have put a thread of Batman vs SBP

Originally posted by Alias Stone
It send OP wanted this thread to show Batman dying.

I'm not saying that I don't see a situation off him losing but of he wanted to do that then he should have put a thread of Batman vs SBP

Pretty much. Alas, he chose the wrong stips lol.

Batman would defeat them all by handing out pressure point strikes like they were cookies. Could they win? Sure if he messes up, but this is his fight to lose.

lololol and double triple lololol.. batman with or without gadgets wins.. the man still has his 3 million martial arts moves that he has learned .. No reason for me not to believe that he will easily evade and take them out one by one

Originally posted by wolverinos
i am a martial artist myself and let me tell you something, if multiple attackers from different directions are able to circle you , then you are done.
thinking otherwise = not knowing much about fighting but rather living in a fantasy land.

if 50 people go at him all at once even if there is only space for 6 people at a time they will still surround him and take him down, he cannot react to 6 different angles and directions at the same time, in order to do that you got to have a super human speed.

and as much as i know your average street thug has minimal knowledge of street fighting and can easily apply something such as a choke, jump to his legs and take him down, hit to the tample, hit to the balls from behind, in comics they are not applying anything, however if batman really had to fight 50 people who are going at him with some minimal brain he is done. Batman has superhuman speed and senses. Remember he is a bullet timer. Those thugs would be statues to him. He would literally one shot each one and down 6 of them in less than 2 seconds. Being a MA you should know that you are not suppose to stand still while being attack, but move around quickly and smoothly.

Originally posted by h1a8
Those thugs would be statues to him.

mmm

Originally posted by h1a8
Batman has superhuman speed and senses. Remember he is a bullet timer. Those thugs would be statues to him. He would literally one shot each one and down 6 of them in less than 2 seconds. Being a MA you should know that you are not suppose to stand still while being attack, but move around quickly and smoothly.

Post scans of Batman doing this.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Post scans of Batman doing this. D. C. Hate huh
Well, what are you referring to

Originally posted by h1a8
D. C. Hate huh
Well, what are you referring to

I like several DC characters.

Originally posted by h1a8
Those thugs would be statues to him. He would literally one shot each one and down 6 of them in less than 2 seconds.

Post scans of this.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I like several DC characters.



Post scans of this. no.
But if you want me to prove it i can

Originally posted by h1a8
no.
But if you want me to prove it i can

Go ahead and prove it then, just keep in mind that your speculation isn't proof.

The thugs will be like statues...but I wouldn't go as fae as say downing 6 in 2 seconds.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So I guess you ignored my previous scans then of Batman getting mobbed? As well as catching impulse (a legit speedster), catching arrows fired at his back etc etc?

And you're going to dismiss all the instances of him beating mobs...because it doesn't fit in with your real world logic?

He does things that no human does. Even peak, not just average. You keep bandying the 50 number around....when it doesn't mean anything, as he'd only be fighting a certain amount of them at any one time.

They all dogpile him, say. How many will he immediately next to him, 2? 3? As he's laying on the ground. Great, they're pressure pointed. What is tthe guy on the top of the dogpile going to do,magically attack him through all the bodies??

I raised a few points in this post, so make sure you answer al of them!

those feats prove that batman is faster than your average human being and i never claimed otherwise.
however having an elite level of speed is not going to save him from getting dogpiled, he can be fast but he wont be fast enought o react in 6 different directions at the very same time and then get jumped.

what i understand from his fight with the mob is that batman has a chance to win if the mob doesnt know how to fight and doesnt utilize actual fighting, however he can easily lose if that mob simultaneously attacks him and doesnt let him maneuver.

batman did well vs that mob but first of all there wasnt 50 people over there probably 20.
second of all they werent trying to fight him they were standing still and trying to shoot, all he had to do is get out of the fire line and take them out.
after he took a good portion out the other portion was somewhat of fighting him with no use.
however if the 50 thugs will simultaneously attack him and just dog pile him i dont see him doing much, he cant react that fast and keep fighting which 2 guys hanging on him and other 2 punching his head its just not possible for someone with his stats.

Originally posted by Alias Stone
It send OP wanted this thread to show Batman dying.

I'm not saying that I don't see a situation off him losing but of he wanted to do that then he should have put a thread of Batman vs SBP

it was not my intention.
i wanted to see if people can think logically enough and understand that beyond the fact those are just thugs, the numbers do affect things.

Originally posted by h1a8
Batman has superhuman speed and senses. Remember he is a bullet timer. Those thugs would be statues to him. He would literally one shot each one and down 6 of them in less than 2 seconds. Being a MA you should know that you are not suppose to stand still while being attack, but move around quickly and smoothly.

no batman is not a bullet timer.
batman has peak speed which is beyond of a human, however he is not a bullet timer, every street leveler and his grandma has feats of avoiding bullets, that does not mean they are faster than a bullet nor can they match their speed with bullets, it means they are faster than the trigger press and can get out of the fire direction.

people statues to batman? really? is that why guys two face or catwomen or atc atc atc are able to fight him and sometimes supress him?
i find it kinda funny you are trying to make batman some kind of superhuman.
when he faced someone with enhanced speed and reflex in the name of deathstroke, we all saw how inferior his stats are compared to someone with real super human astats.
and lets not forget deathstroke has very low level of super human stats to the point they are described as enhanced, probably slightly above wolverine.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


so please tell me something, by your logic and the things you believe, how many thugs would it take to defeat batman in a H2H confrontation if they attack and fight him simultaneously and actually using real fighting?

The inverse ninja numbers efectiveness rule also applies to thugs. Bats wades trough the first 20, puts in an effort taking down the next 20, the 10 remaining becomes a challenge and last thug standing puts up a pretty good fight one on one. Bruce wins in the end.

You keep saying think logically....but you're using real world logic.

Fine, I've posted my proof, as rubbish as it was, of why I thought Bats could win.

Your go. Post some comic scans of him getting mobbed whilst at ful health by normal (I.e unpowered) thugs.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You keep saying think logically....but you're using real world logic.

Fine, I've posted my proof, as rubbish as it was, of why I thought Bats could win.

Your go. Post some comic scans of him getting mobbed whilst at ful health by normal (I.e unpowered) thugs.

i understand and respect your opinion and your points which are valid as they are actually showing him dealing with such situation.
however i just pointed out there is also a high possibility of such a mob taking him down.
but how many thugs you think it would take to defeat him? is it a matter of numbers or a matter of batman tiring out eventually?

Its a matter of tiring him out. He will drop his guard, or he will kick that much too slow, then he'll get hit, but he can probably tank quite a few hits, before he goes down.

So for example, against the 50 thugs, maybe he'd get tagged ten times (just an example, I pulled that number out of my ass). But he'd be able to continue fighting having been punched ten times.

Numbers dont after THAT much, because like in the movie 300, there will be a choke point where superior numbers won't be able to help. Maybe its a literal choke point (so Bats is in an alleyway, or standing on a chimney) or it might be a figurative choke point ( the surface area of Bats, combined with the reach of these thugs).

Take a look, for example, at starving people when they're handing out food packages from a truck. The people at the back won't even get a look in, because the people in front are in their way. All they'd be good for is pushing.

Batman wins while the BGM "Let the bodies hit the floor" is singing to his every move he pulls on 50 thugs

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its a matter of tiring him out. He will drop his guard, or he will kick that much too slow, then he'll get hit, but he can probably tank quite a few hits, before he goes down.

So for example, against the 50 thugs, maybe he'd get tagged ten times (just an example, I pulled that number out of my ass). But he'd be able to continue fighting having been punched ten times.

Numbers dont after THAT much, because like in the movie 300, there will be a choke point where superior numbers won't be able to help. Maybe its a literal choke point (so Bats is in an alleyway, or standing on a chimney) or it might be a figurative choke point ( the surface area of Bats, combined with the reach of these thugs).

Take a look, for example, at starving people when they're handing out food packages from a truck. The people at the back won't even get a look in, because the people in front are in their way. All they'd be good for is pushing.

but such a strategy can be pulled off only if he is using the neck bottle strategy from 300.
such strategy means for example he enters a room and then beats the crap out of the 1 - 2 who follows him thru the door.
however the whole point of this thread is can he do it in an open field where 50 thugs just jump on him from all directions.

Originally posted by wolverinos
but such a strategy can be pulled off only if he is using the neck bottle strategy from 300.
such strategy means for example he enters a room and then beats the crap out of the 1 - 2 who follows him thru the door.
however the whole point of this thread is can he do it in an open field where 50 thugs just jump on him from all directions.

Hence why I said figurative (surface area of Bats, combined with their reach).

I mean, are you envisaging Batman stands there and they dogpile him? Then after he gets piled on, he does nothing to the guys on top of him? What would the guys on the top of the dogpile then gonna do to him, when he's separated by layers of guys?

It'll be easier I think if you just wrote up the scenario you think would happen, and provide scans of when Batman was overwhelmed by normal unpowered thugs. Because I have.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hence why I said figurative (surface area of Bats, combined with their reach).

I mean, are you envisaging Batman stands there and they dogpile him? Then after he gets piled on, he does nothing to the guys on top of him? What would the guys on the top of the dogpile then gonna do to him, when he's separated by layers of guys?

It'll be easier I think if you just wrote up the scenario you think would happen, and provide scans of when Batman was overwhelmed by normal unpowered thugs. Because I have.

same thing i can ask you, why do you think the guys on top of him wont do anything? you think they are just going to lay on top of him and do nothing? what happens in a street fight when such amount of people jump someone? they will kick his head, poke his eyes, hold his arms and legs pinning him to the ground he wont be able to move and only will get stomped.
if the 50 guys get him to the ground he is done.

Because they can't reach him. How long do you think their arms are? Say five guys pile on him. Then another five. then another five. Howbig do you rthink Batman is???

I may have to draw a diagram....

Originally posted by wolverinos
same thing i can ask you, why do you think the guys on top of him wont do anything? you think they are just going to lay on top of him and do nothing? what happens in a street fight when such amount of people jump someone? they will kick his head, poke his eyes, hold his arms and legs pinning him to the ground he wont be able to move and only will get stomped.
if the 50 guys get him to the ground he is done.

Also, I have shown you his one hit, instantaneous pressure point attack. Hence, the guys directly above him would be dead weight and wouldn't be doing anything. They can TRY to hold his arm, but unless al of them have decent leverage and a decent grip (which is unlikely, as they would be limited, only 1 or so guys would be able to grab each arm and hold it in a sufficiently tight grip to prevent him from moving. And that is even assuming an average thug has enough strength to hold Batman, which, as we have all agreed, is way above average humans. Hell, he's even above peak humans, some of the crazy stuff he's done.

Think about it. One guy, with his arm curled around mine, can hold me pretty effectively. 4 guys wouldn't be able to do that - it's physically impossible - my arm isn't that long. 4 guys would be able to have a hand on me though. And if I had Batman's level of strength? 4 hands holding me is easy to twist out of.

Pretty sure Batman defeated around 100 thugs armed with swords and maces in the Death of the Family storyline.

Yeah, think he used smoke bombs and grapple lines, hence why I didn't want to use that as an example. Plus, they were assassin ninjas.....my argument is, he'd be dismissing theses thugs with basicffighting skills with pressure point attacks (one shot instakills) and staying mobile, tangling them all up with each other

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, I have shown you his one hit, instantaneous pressure point attack. Hence, the guys directly above him would be dead weight and wouldn't be doing anything. They can TRY to hold his arm, but unless al of them have decent leverage and a decent grip (which is unlikely, as they would be limited, only 1 or so guys would be able to grab each arm and hold it in a sufficiently tight grip to prevent him from moving. And that is even assuming an average thug has enough strength to hold Batman, which, as we have all agreed, is way above average humans. Hell, he's even above peak humans, some of the crazy stuff he's done.

Think about it. One guy, with his arm curled around mine, can hold me pretty effectively. 4 guys wouldn't be able to do that - it's physically impossible - my arm isn't that long. 4 guys would be able to have a hand on me though. And if I had Batman's level of strength? 4 hands holding me is easy to twist out of.

first of all if they dog pile him he wont have the maneuver ability he has on average.
imagine yourself something like 10 people dogpile him, he will be squizzed under them and wont have the hand maneuver he has for a precise hit which also takes momentum to execute.
basically batman lyinmg under a pile of thugs while the other ones are kicking him in the head from different sides wont be even able to extand his arms in order to execute his pressure point strikes his arms are restricted.

again you assume if the thugs jump him and dogpile him they will be only lying on top of him which is very incorrect.
they will be headbutting and ground and pounding him from above while the others will be kicking him in the head as he is down.

as i said if they take him to the ground he is dead he cant get out of it.

Originally posted by wolverinos
first of all if they dog pile him he wont have the maneuver ability he has on average.
imagine yourself something like 10 people dogpile him, he will be squizzed under them and wont have the hand maneuver he has for a precise hit which also takes momentum to execute.
basically batman lyinmg under a pile of thugs while the other ones are kicking him in the head from different sides wont be even able to extand his arms in order to execute his pressure point strikes his arms are restricted.

again you assume if the thugs jump him and dogpile him they will be only lying on top of him which is very incorrect.
they will be headbutting and ground and pounding him from above while the others will be kicking him in the head as he is down.

as i said if they take him to the ground he is dead he cant get out of it.

Fair enough. You will need to provide proof that he can be dogpiled, and that he won't be able to get out of it. I have shown SOME proof (as crappy as it was) of him going up against multiple thugs - armed and unarmed, and beating them without gadgets, only with H2H, proof of his skills, and proof of his speed.

Now, I know you have your viewpoint. So back it up like a Tonka truck.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fair enough. You will need to provide proof that he can be dogpiled, and that he won't be able to get out of it. I have shown SOME proof (as crappy as it was) of him going up against multiple thugs - armed and unarmed, and beating them without gadgets, only with H2H, proof of his skills, and proof of his speed.

Now, I know you have your viewpoint. So back it up like a Tonka truck.

why scans need to be posted in order to point out that 50 guys can dogpile him? is it something unrealistic? 50 guys going at him all at once jumping on him and dogpile him is something that easily can happen, why would you believe it cant happen? its like asking a scan of batman taking a dump in order to prove he takes one.
if even 15 people dogpile batman thats more than he can press to get free, batman can at max lift 800 lbs, he can probably press more weight than that but of course not by much.
basically if they do dogpile him he just cant break free, and even if he knocks someone out while the person is on top of him that person isnt going to get off of him you know, a knocked out guy is still on top of him along with 10 others while the other ones are kicking batman in the head and stomping his face.

as i said before if they take him to the ground he is dead.
if not i still dont believe he can survive 6 people from all directions attacking him at the same time while more and more people pushing in to attack him and probably jumping on him.

If three adult men jump towards Batman, he'll pick one in mid air with one arm, throw him towards another one, while using the remaining hand and one of his legs to ko two other potential threats. He repeats this strategy again until the men realize they can never dogpile Batman and then they do the only reasonable thing they can do: run.

Originally posted by wolverinos
why scans need to be posted in order to point out that 50 guys can dogpile him? is it something unrealistic?

As unrealstic as Batman, and superhero comics in general? Yes.




Oh no, I invented the pooping defence! Besides, its quite a different scenario here than that in the poop defence - because Batman has trained specifically to fight. And has taken on many people before. And in comics, he has been shown to win.

By your argument, using real world logic, no guy is able to fight continuously against different, multiple opponents, for 28 hours. But he can, and has. Because comic book logic, especially when it comes to Batman, trumps real world logic lol.




He can do 1000, easily, as part of his daily routine. So 25% more than your max. As someone who no doubt frequents the gym, you will know that his 1 rep max will then be quite a bit higher than that. and who can say what he would be able to do when the chips are down and he digs in? Am of course, ignoring the weight of the bar itself (probably about 44lbs on top of that?)

Proof (note the 500lb weight plate):
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/batweightraining.jpg


So...you have no proof, that street thugs posses the skills, speed or strength necessary to knock him to the ground, hold him there, then dogpile him, whilst making sure they don't get in each other's way?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Go ahead and prove it then, just keep in mind that your speculation isn't proof. Batman was shown to be a bullet timer. Thus with that type of speed and reflexes real human thugs would be statues to him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Batman was shown to be a bullet timer. Thus with that type of speed and reflexes real human thugs would be statues to him.

I'm still waiting for proof that he'd ko 6 of them within 2 seconds.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm still waiting for proof that he'd ko 6 of them within 2 seconds.

He can hit 6 of them in less than 2 seconds (bullet timing speed and superhuman strength). It may take a fraction of a second to 2 seconds for each to be knocked out after being hit. So let's say he can knock 6 out in 4 seconds maximum.

Is that better?

Originally posted by h1a8
He can hit 6 of them in less than 2 seconds (bullet timing speed and superhuman strength). It may take a fraction of a second to 2 seconds for each to be knocked out after being hit. So let's say he can knock 6 out in 4 seconds maximum.

Is that better?

I already said that your speculation isn't proof

IOW, I'm still waiting for proof that he'd ko 6 of them within 2 to 4 seconds.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I already said that your speculation isn't proof

IOW, I'm still waiting for proof that he'd ko 6 of them within 2 to 4 seconds.

1. Batman was shown to be a bullet timer. That means he must be able to move and react in less than 1/30th of a second. So he can easily make at least 6 strikes in 2 seconds (1 strike in 1/3rd of a second on average).

2. Batman has shown superhuman strength. He has feats over 5 tons. Thus he has the necessary strength to one shot a real human.

3. Batman is a master of pressure points. He can one shot a real human without even using his full strength.

Now if this isn't proof then provide a rebuttal.

Again, I have already told you multiple times that your speculation doesn't qualify as proof, now show me examples of Batman knocking out 6 people within 2 to 4 seconds.

Back off, Silent Master. I see no problem in Batman taking out 50 thugs in 17 seconds using only his fists

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Back off, Silent Master. I see no problem in Batman taking out 50 thugs in 17 seconds using only his fists

I just want him for once to actually back up his claims, If you like I can switch it to asking him to back up his retarded "Batman has above cl 5 strength" claim.

play arkham city
Batman takes down that many thugs on a random encounter with penguin or Joker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFRYUvom9zw

I can only imagine in the comics his skills vs multiple opponents are even more insane. It may be a bit harder to find feats in the new 52

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, I have already told you multiple times that your speculation doesn't qualify as proof, now show me examples of Batman knocking out 6 people within 2 to 4 seconds. I proved it. I gave canon examples of how quick Batman can respond and how strong he can be. Now you can argue PIS if you like. So stop trolling me and give reasons why you think I didn't prove it.

Originally posted by h1a8
I proved it. I gave canon examples of how quick Batman can respond and how strong he can be. Now you can argue PIS if you like. So stop trolling me and give reasons why you think I didn't prove it.

No, you provided speculation...I want actual examples of him doing it.

SM stop you're only gonna make him do more math... And no one wants that

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, you provided speculation...I want actual examples of him doing it.

Originally posted by h1a8
I proved it. I gave canon examples of how quick Batman can respond and how strong he can be. Now you can argue PIS if you like. So stop trolling me and give reasons why you think I didn't prove it.

Please stop trolling me.

You haven't provided any proof, all you've done is speculate, proof would be you actually posting scans or quotes where Batman has performed similar feats.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


As unrealstic as Batman, and superhero comics in general? Yes.




Oh no, I invented the pooping defence! Besides, its quite a different scenario here than that in the poop defence - because Batman has trained specifically to fight. And has taken on many people before. And in comics, he has been shown to win.

By your argument, using real world logic, no guy is able to fight continuously against different, multiple opponents, for 28 hours. But he can, and has. Because comic book logic, especially when it comes to Batman, trumps real world logic lol.




He can do 1000, easily, as part of his daily routine. So 25% more than your max. As someone who no doubt frequents the gym, you will know that his 1 rep max will then be quite a bit higher than that. and who can say what he would be able to do when the chips are down and he digs in? Am of course, ignoring the weight of the bar itself (probably about 44lbs on top of that?)

Proof (note the 500lb weight plate):
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/batweightraining.jpg


So...you have no proof, that street thugs posses the skills, speed or strength necessary to knock him to the ground, hold him there, then dogpile him, whilst making sure they don't get in each other's way?

batman is not very beyond realism.
batman is a portray of someone who is at a peak human level of abilities.
however even a guy with peak abilities is not beyond reason such as say somebody who is a super human.

in comics he was shown to win some, other times he was hurt, but eventually are you assuming all humans has the same strength and overall skill and stat level? he may fight a group of losers and win easily.
he may fight a group of thugs with a slight level of intellect which will utilize the situation and the numbers properly and beat him down.
my scenario presents 50 guys that actually utilize their numbers and attack him from all directions at the same time and dogpile him, stomp and whats not.
now by batmans feats, what feats provide some kind of evidence that he can reacts to hits comming at him from 6 different directions at the very same time?

even if he can press 100 its still not enough to get out of such a human dogpile while the people are resisting.
for example wrestling... you may press for example 210lbs, and then you wrestle with someone who is 180 lbs and it will be much harder to get him off, why? because he is using more pressure and resistance against you.
he is using his weight+force pressure.
therefor batman wont only have to deal with the weight, but the force each of them will provide on top of that.

You're changing stips

Originally posted by jitay
You're changing stips


i am not, its batman vs 50 thugs.
only thing is those thugs are actually fighting him and not acting like idiots.

I've already shown him being dogpiled from all directions...the attackby Arkham inmates.

In any case, am using my pphone to type this out..when I get back, will post further showing how limited real world logic is compared to comics.

But the crux of my argument will be, he is beyond even peak human. The world record for an unassisted (no bench shirt, belt, elbow wraps etc is by Eric Spoto. He did this with assistance. Google image search him...this is a guy who trains everyday with only one goal in mind.

Real world logic means he'd throw four or five punches, then collapse, out of breath. Let alone the cardio gymnastics Bats does.

And Batman does over 1000lb, no belt etc, routinely....by real world logic, he'd be a hulking roided out tub of lard. Who'd run 50metres then collapse, huffing and puffing. Let alone last a 3 minute boxing round.

Originally posted by wolverinos
now i know people want to jump in and act as if the thugs are canon fodder and batman wins like a walk in the park.
now lets stop for a second and think rationally.
50 buffed thugs, all jumping at him ... its not a movie scene where they fight him 1 after the other, its 50 big thugs with probably some basic boxing and street fighting knowledge jumping at him.
can batman win?

Yes you are

OP states that the thugs have basic H2H knowledge

Nowhere does it state that they are using teamwork our that they will function as a cohesive unit or that they will I'm any way be fighting smart

As seen with most teams, the x-men being the one that comes closest to mind, they have to train with rather every day in order to work as well a they do and even then they still use attack formations so that everyone will know where they need to be in order not to get in anyone else's way.

Now from your OP it doesn't sound like they've worked with each other before so it is inevitable that accidents will happen they will get in each others way all miking for the glory of being the one to take put Batman down and if you think that Batman won't capitilise in that then you don't know the Bat

Don't get me wrong I had your opinion that Bats would get stomped out but your constant whining and Darks arguament swayed me

Originally posted by Silent Master
You haven't provided any proof, all you've done is speculate, proof would be you actually posting scans or quotes where Batman has performed similar feats. So showing that a character has the speed, know how, and strength to do a task is not enough?

I showed Batman having the movement and reaction speed to make 6 strikes in less than 2 seconds.
I showed Batman having the knowledge of striking pressure points.
I showed Batman having the strength to knock out a human with a single blow.

By your argument, It's speculation that Thor can lift a yacht even if he was shown to lift heavier objects but not a yacht itself. If this isn't trolling then I don't know what is.

Originally posted by h1a8
So showing that a character has the speed, know how, and strength to do a task is not enough?

I showed Batman having the movement and reaction speed to make 6 strikes in less than 2 seconds.
I showed Batman having the knowledge of striking pressure points.
I showed Batman having the strength to knock out a human with a single blow.

By your argument, It's speculation that Thor can lift a yacht even if he was shown to lift heavier objects but not a yacht itself. If this isn't trolling then I don't know what is.

Look, we have already established that you are completely unable to post feats to back up your claim...so why don't we just get back on topic, or are you going to insist on spamming the thread with further posts that are devoid of proof?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Look, we have already established that you are completely unable to post feats to back up your claim...so why don't we just get back on topic, or are you going to insist on spamming the thread with further posts that are devoid of proof?

So you want to ignore on panel proof of Batman's speed and reaction showings?
So you want to ignore on panel proof of Batman's strength showings?
So you want to ignore on panel proof of Batman's striking knowledge of the human body?


This is getting out of hand here. Blatantly trolling the thread.

Again, we have already established that you are completely unable to post feats to back up your claim...so why don't we just get back on topic, or are you going to insist on spamming the thread with further posts that are devoid of proof?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, we have already established that you are completely unable to post feats to back up your claim...so why don't we just get back on topic, or are you going to insist on spamming the thread with further posts that are devoid of proof? Feats were posted showing Batman's speed. Feats were posted showing Batman's strength. Feats were posted showing Batman's pressure point knowledge. You are talking like you never seen them before (which makes your trolling obvious).

You have posted zero feats of Batman actually ko'ing a similar number of people in the timeframe you gave...so can we actually get back to the topic at hand or are you just going to keep spamming the thread?

Originally posted by Silent Master
You have posted zero feats of Batman actually ko'ing a similar number of people in the timeframe you gave...so can we actually get back to the topic at hand or are you just going to keep spamming the thread? Why do I have to?

If I showed him having the speed capable of doing it and the strength then why can't he do it?

Originally posted by h1a8
Why do I have to?

If I showed him having the speed capable of doing it and the strength then why can't he do it?

I've already told you, posts feats of him either performing the feat in question or one similar.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I've already told you, posts feats of him either performing the feat in question or one similar.

Why do I have to?

If I showed him having the speed capable of doing it and the strength then why can't he do it?

Originally posted by h1a8
Why do I have to?

If I showed him having the speed capable of doing it and the strength then why can't he do it?

Becasue you made the claim.

Are you just trolling or are you too stupid to put 2 and 2 together?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Becasue you made the claim. Again Batman was shown with multiple feats in this thread of having sufficient speed to throw at least 6 strikes in a couple of seconds. Batman was shown in this thread to have super human strength (which is enough to knock a REAL human out or kill them in one blow). Batman was shown to also have the knowledge of the human body for pressure point striking.
It is common knowledge that Batman is genius level as well as a class A fighter.

Ignoring on panel proof is against KMC rules. You should know this as you been a member here for quite some time. So to suggest that Batman has never shown the necessary speed to throw 6 strikes in a matter of 2 seconds WHEN his speed feats which support it was shown here is asinine.

6 people aren't just going to be standing within arms reach of Batman when the fight starts, he's actually going to have to move around and avoid their attacks in order to hit them...as of yet you haven't provided any proof that he can do this within 2-4 seconds.

Originally posted by Silent Master
6 people aren't just going to be standing within arms reach of Batman when the fight starts, he's actually going to have to move around and avoid their attacks in order to hit them...as of yet you haven't provided any proof that he can do this within 2-4 seconds. What are you talking about? Batman feats that were shown displayed him moving faster than any human can respond (they would be a statue). He was shown to bat bullets away, moving to catch arrows at the last possible instant, dodge hails or barrages of bullets aimed at him, etc. He has been shown to have super human speed and strength multiple times by real life standards.

6 men will be within arms reach when they sufficiently close the distance on Batman.

Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? Batman feats that were shown displayed him moving faster than any human can respond (they would be a statue). He was shown to bat bullets away, moving to catch arrows at the last possible instant, dodge hails or barrages of bullets aimed at him, etc. He has been shown to have super human speed and strength multiple times by real life standards.

6 men will be within arms reach when they sufficiently close the distance on Batman.

Batman moves faster than any human can respond? Ok, you've gone full on delusional.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Batman moves faster than any human can respond? Ok, you've gone full on delusional. Batman WAS SHOWN to move faster than any human can respond multiple times.

Now you can argue PIS if you want and claim that he won't have that level of speed against the 50 thugs although he has shown the speed on panel multiple times.

Originally posted by h1a8
Batman WAS SHOWN to move faster than any human can respond multiple times.

Now you can argue PIS if you want and claim that he won't have that level of speed against the 50 thugs although he has shown the speed on panel multiple times.

Are you sure that you want to add some qualifiers to that statement?

Originally posted by ares834
Are you just trolling or are you too stupid to put 2 and 2 together?

You're missing the entire point, he's not actually posted or named any actual feats...Even I can name several speed/strength and skill feats off the top of my head for Batman and I'm not even a big fan....hell I could spend 2 minutes in the respect thread and post scans. but he hasn't even done that much.

His entire argument is based on what he's heard other people say about Batman

Originally posted by Silent Master
Are you sure that you want to add some qualifiers to that statement? I don't understand what you mean by adding qualifiers.

So no one has says anything about my beautifully laid out arguament ;_;

Originally posted by jitay
So no one has says anything about my beautifully laid out arguament ;_;

It's pretty much what I was trying to hint at, but you expressed it better.

Originally posted by jitay
So no one has says anything about my beautifully laid out arguament ;_;

I liked it

Originally posted by jitay
So no one has says anything about my beautifully laid out arguament ;_;

http://unrealitymag.bcmediagroup.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/jizz-in-my-pants-andy-samberg1.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://unrealitymag.bcmediagroup.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/jizz-in-my-pants-andy-samberg1.jpg

Wut

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's pretty much what I was trying to hint at, but you expressed it better.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I liked it

Thanks guys

I do wanna see him try to refute my arguament though, cos that whining Lil shite is annoying and getting in my nerves

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I've already shown him being dogpiled from all directions...the attackby Arkham inmates.

In any case, am using my pphone to type this out..when I get back, will post further showing how limited real world logic is compared to comics.

But the crux of my argument will be, he is beyond even peak human. The world record for an unassisted (no bench shirt, belt, elbow wraps etc is by Eric Spoto. He did this with assistance. Google image search him...this is a guy who trains everyday with only one goal in mind.

Real world logic means he'd throw four or five punches, then collapse, out of breath. Let alone the cardio gymnastics Bats does.

And Batman does over 1000lb, no belt etc, routinely....by real world logic, he'd be a hulking roided out tub of lard. Who'd run 50metres then collapse, huffing and puffing. Let alone last a 3 minute boxing round.

there wasnt 50 people over there.
the thing with arkham asylum had less people and even if they are more dangerous than the average thug it still doesnt mean much for batman as he can take them out easily.
with 50 thugs even if he takes 1 out it wont take too much away from the numbers therefor in this situation numbers = slightly more dangerous if anything.

if you believe batman is beyond peak human than i will ask you what is a peak human? who said the best athlete our world at the moment has to offer is the peak a human can get? peak human means the peak any human being can ever get.
i saw batman dislocating his shoulder while trying to lift a weight.
i saw batman easily overpowered and overshadowed by deathstroke who really is beyond peak human but to a very slight degree.
deathstroke is the bottom of the super human category, he is considered an enhanced human, somewhere around wolverine to be honest.
and yet with those stats he was clearly above batman easily.
batman is at best a peak human.

as i said again, even if we apply real logic we still can imagine scientificly how someone who is a peak human could handle himself.
however even with such abilities it still not enough for him to overcome such a sheer amount of people who are trying to hurt him attacking at the very same time relentlessly.
possible? maybe, but more chances he will get defeated.

i never saw him bench pressing m,ore than 1000 lbs.
lets not try to give him super human atributes, he does impressive things but its not like he can lift above a ton or anything.
as i explained even with his strength it still impossible to get out of a dogpile consisting of such numbers.

Bullshit

Originally posted by jitay
Yes you are

OP states that the thugs have basic H2H knowledge

Nowhere does it state that they are using teamwork our that they will function as a cohesive unit or that they will I'm any way be fighting smart

As seen with most teams, the x-men being the one that comes closest to mind, they have to train with rather every day in order to work as well a they do and even then they still use attack formations so that everyone will know where they need to be in order not to get in anyone else's way.

Now from your OP it doesn't sound like they've worked with each other before so it is inevitable that accidents will happen they will get in each others way all miking for the glory of being the one to take put Batman down and if you think that Batman won't capitilise in that then you don't know the Bat

Don't get me wrong I had your opinion that Bats would get stomped out but your constant whining and Darks arguament swayed me

yes they do have basic fighting skills and street knowledge so? how does it contradict anything?

i dont need to state they use a team work.
all i was stating is the fact they use common street fighting knowledge and will team up at him and fight him simultaneously, the reason i stated average street knowledge is because of the fact even the dumbest group of thugs will always jump someone all together to beat his a$$.
but then again i guess people like yourself cant comprehend such things and have to be spoon feed to understand anything.
before you are calling me whiny, why wont you clean the anal blood from being butthurt over this thread and reread my points again and understand where you fail.
if you still cant? i will help you.

you dont have to train as a freakin team to just jump someone at the same time... your so called strawman logic makes you look dumb.

as i said i will repeat again, they dont have to be a former team, nor do they have to practice as a team to just jump someone at the same time relentlessly, the common hood rats can do it, might as well thugs fighting batman do it as well.

there is no whining and no changing, i am holding everything true to what i said before.
50 thugs who have basic street fighting knowledge that are not colplete idiots that fight him 1 vs 1 are fighting batman and thats it.
it is you whi is trying to look for some gaps because you realise he cant win that way unless they are brain dead and going at him 1 by 1.

Originally posted by h1a8
Batman WAS SHOWN to move faster than any human can respond multiple times.
.

what do you mean by saying any human? what are the human abilities?
nightwing is a human, batgirl is human, joker is human, two face is just human, thugs that hurt him with chains are human, and they all could react perfectly to batman.
by saying human are you talking about some beer drinking potato couch loser?

Originally posted by wolverinos
batman is not very beyond realism.
batman is a portray of someone who is at a peak human level of abilities.
however even a guy with peak abilities is not beyond reason such as say somebody who is a super human.

in comics he was shown to win some, other times he was hurt, but eventually are you assuming all humans has the same strength and overall skill and stat level? he may fight a group of losers and win easily.
he may fight a group of thugs with a slight level of intellect which will utilize the situation and the numbers properly and beat him down.
my scenario presents 50 guys that actually utilize their numbers and attack him from all directions at the same time and dogpile him, stomp and whats not.
now by batmans feats, what feats provide some kind of evidence that he can reacts to hits comming at him from 6 different directions at the very same time?

even if he can press 100 its still not enough to get out of such a human dogpile while the people are resisting.
for example wrestling... you may press for example 210lbs, and then you wrestle with someone who is 180 lbs and it will be much harder to get him off, why? because he is using more pressure and resistance against you.
he is using his weight+force pressure.
therefor batman wont only have to deal with the weight, but the force each of them will provide on top of that.

Right, my more measured response, now that I have a PC.

This is Eric Spoto:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/581348_320349894739365_975569697_n.jpg

He holds the world record in the unassisted (no bench shirt) benchpress.

Look at him. Just...look at him. This is what a peak human bencher looks like. And when he did his 1-rep max, world record (722lbs), he had spotters, and elbow straps aiding him. Batman does 1044lb, no spotters, no straps, routinely.

Ignoring the sheer numbers, look at that picture again. This is a guy who weight trains obsessively, in order to bench something Batman does as a warmup. Put him into an MMA cage match against one opponent. Do you think he'd be able to do half the martial arts moves Batman pulls off? And do it over an entire night, every night? This is ignoring, of course, the comic book depictions of martial arts (so not just punching and kicking like in the televised matches, but acrobatic flipping around, spinning kicks etc).

Using real world logic, a peak human bencher would collapse after 2 minutes. However, Batman is far above real world peak humans its laughable to even use the term.

I mean, peak humans can't casually bend gun barrels with one hand:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbend.jpg

Snap handcuffs like they were nothing:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batchain1.jpg

Casually break human arms, through power armour:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Power-Strength/Strength/batmanodyssey6-triggersnap.jpg

There are others, but I think (hope) you get the point. Batman is far above a peak human, especially when you add all of his abilities and skills together. Hence, he would be so far above these average thugs, that their numbers advantage would mean little.

Now, your next point was then - show me Batman fighting against 6 or so opponents, and winning. The thing is, I do not have any. And I wouldn't have any. Because a fight with Batman is so quick, and he is so skilled, that he never has to deal with that many opponents at once.

There is also the psychological factor. There are no thugs in Gotham, America, or DC, who would swarm Batman in hand to hand combat, especially if they had no powers of their own. The reason? They know they will lose.

Originally posted by wolverinos

if you believe batman is beyond peak human than i will ask you what is a peak human? who said the best athlete our world at the moment has to offer is the peak a human can get? peak human means the peak any human being can ever get.

i never saw him bench pressing m,ore than 1000 lbs.
lets not try to give him super human atributes, he does impressive things but its not like he can lift above a ton or anything.
as i explained even with his strength it still impossible to get out of a dogpile consisting of such numbers.

When you have a human who not only knows, but is an expert, in 127 different martial arts (something some people take a whole lifetime to achieve) plus multiple degrees from the finest universities in various different subjects, plus the physical ability and time to train in order to bench over 1000lbs routinely (as I said before, his 1 rep max will be even higher), plus the ability to take time out to host fundraising parties, and take an active role in his business from the shadows.....AND then on top of that, fight crime every night, AND still find time for dinner, sleeping, JLA alien incursions etc....you come back to me and tell me a mere human in the real world is capable of doing all this, everyday, for years.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When you have a human who not only knows, but is an expert, in 127 different martial arts (something some people take a whole lifetime to achieve) plus multiple degrees from the finest universities in various different subjects, plus the physical ability and time to train in order to bench over 1000lbs routinely (as I said before, his 1 rep max will be even higher), plus the ability to take time out to host fundraising parties, and take an active role in his business from the shadows.....AND then on top of that, fight crime every night, AND still find time for dinner, sleeping, JLA alien incursions etc....you come back to me and tell me a mere human in the real world is capable of doing all this, everyday, for years.

Calling me butthurt... It doesn't work like that

I called you whiny cos you are but I respect your competently misguided attempt to use real world logic to this sort of sitch

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Right, my more measured response, now that I have a PC.

This is Eric Spoto:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/581348_320349894739365_975569697_n.jpg

He holds the world record in the unassisted (no bench shirt) benchpress.

Look at him. Just...look at him. This is what a peak human bencher looks like. And when he did his 1-rep max, world record (722lbs), he had spotters, and elbow straps aiding him. Batman does 1044lb, no spotters, no straps, routinely.

Ignoring the sheer numbers, look at that picture again. This is a guy who weight trains obsessively, in order to bench something Batman does as a warmup. Put him into an MMA cage match against one opponent. Do you think he'd be able to do half the martial arts moves Batman pulls off? And do it over an entire night, every night? This is ignoring, of course, the comic book depictions of martial arts (so not just punching and kicking like in the televised matches, but acrobatic flipping around, spinning kicks etc).

Using real world logic, a peak human bencher would collapse after 2 minutes. However, Batman is far above real world peak humans its laughable to even use the term.

I mean, peak humans can't casually bend gun barrels with one hand:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbend.jpg

Snap handcuffs like they were nothing:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batchain1.jpg

Casually break human arms, through power armour:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Power-Strength/Strength/batmanodyssey6-triggersnap.jpg

There are others, but I think (hope) you get the point. Batman is far above a peak human, especially when you add all of his abilities and skills together. Hence, he would be so far above these average thugs, that their numbers advantage would mean little.

Now, your next point was then - show me Batman fighting against 6 or so opponents, and winning. The thing is, I do not have any. And I wouldn't have any. Because a fight with Batman is so quick, and he is so skilled, that he never has to deal with that many opponents at once.

There is also the psychological factor. There are no thugs in Gotham, America, or DC, who would swarm Batman in hand to hand combat, especially if they had no powers of their own. The reason? They know they will lose.

so wait a second, you are showing me some swollen up guy that lifts a lot and then you try to imply that this big fat blob is a peak human? again whats the definition of a peak human? a peak human is the peak a human being can ever achieve.
what this big guy achieved as far as his lifting is not what a human being can achieve, thats what he as an individual can achieve.

you are putting this guys achievements as they are the best any human being can achieve, tommorow someone will break his record and so on and so on, thats the way things work, there isnt a clear definition to that.
however there is a clear boundry which no human can supress which is lifting 2 tons or so for example or even a ton, not bench pressing but lifting.

as i explained earlier batman is indeed doing what ever a peak human should be able to do, nothing that he did is some kind of super human ability.
you show batman break cuffs? guess what? real humans can do that and even plenty of guys just search the web for videos.
bending some kind of pole? Lol thousands of people can perform more impressive feats than that.
you wana go real life records vs batman? how about guys dragging trucks? how about guys actually ripping off pieces of metal with their bare hands? twisting solid metal?
as i explained before batman doesnt do anything that really can be considered above anything a human can dream to do.
and as i said before when he went up against someone who is slightly in the super human category we saw a big gap which clearly showed us batman is no where at the super human category and not even at enhanced category.
hell freakin bane is at enhanced category when he is on venom and its perfectly clear as daylight that bane on venom is physically superior to batman by miles.
bane with no venom is batmans equal at stats and bane without venom is high athletic - peak human category.

so basically as i said earlier i will say again, batman does not have the stats to take out 50 guys attacking him at once.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When you have a human who not only knows, but is an expert, in 127 different martial arts (something some people take a whole lifetime to achieve) plus multiple degrees from the finest universities in various different subjects, plus the physical ability and time to train in order to bench over 1000lbs routinely (as I said before, his 1 rep max will be even higher), plus the ability to take time out to host fundraising parties, and take an active role in his business from the shadows.....AND then on top of that, fight crime every night, AND still find time for dinner, sleeping, JLA alien incursions etc....you come back to me and tell me a mere human in the real world is capable of doing all this, everyday, for years.

i am sorry that does not make any sense at all.
all the things you just mentioned can be applied to any street leveler in marvel universe, so now all street levelers are super human? makes no sense.

Originally posted by jitay
Calling me butthurt... It doesn't work like that

I called you whiny cos you are but I respect your competently misguided attempt to use real world logic to this sort of sitch

whats not working is you trying to diss someone without anything to back you up.
then after i shove your nose into your childish mistakes, which dont even hold a candle to both truth or reason, you resort into quoting other people because you cant even form an argument of your own.
in other words if your argument is flawed and you dont even know what you are doing , dont try to be an a$$ because you will only get spanked.

Originally posted by wolverinos
i am sorry that does not make any sense at all.
all the things you just mentioned can be applied to any street leveler in marvel universe, so now all street levelers are super human? makes no sense.

All? Since when did Daredevil/Cap etc suddenly become masters in 127 martial arts? Are CEOs of their own business? Hold multiple degrees in different disciplines, as well as know how to fluently speak multiple languages? All at the same time as holding down a double life as a party goer (so imagine all the partying Paris Hilton does - now imagine she still finds time to fight crime every night on top of her party image). Are you saying in the real world, there exists these kind of people?

Originally posted by wolverinos
so wait a second, you are showing me some swollen up guy that lifts a lot and then you try to imply that this big fat blob is a peak human? again whats the definition of a peak human? a peak human is the peak a human being can ever achieve.
what this big guy achieved as far as his lifting is not what a human being can achieve, thats what he as an individual can achieve.

you are putting this guys achievements as they are the best any human being can achieve, tommorow someone will break his record and so on and so on, thats the way things work, there isnt a clear definition to that.
however there is a clear boundry which no human can supress which is lifting 2 tons or so for example or even a ton, not bench pressing but lifting.

as i explained earlier batman is indeed doing what ever a peak human should be able to do, nothing that he did is some kind of super human ability.
you show batman break cuffs? guess what? real humans can do that and even plenty of guys just search the web for videos.
bending some kind of pole? Lol thousands of people can perform more impressive feats than that.
you wana go real life records vs batman? how about guys dragging trucks? how about guys actually ripping off pieces of metal with their bare hands? twisting solid metal?
as i explained before batman doesnt do anything that really can be considered above anything a human can dream to do.
and as i said before when he went up against someone who is slightly in the super human category we saw a big gap which clearly showed us batman is no where at the super human category and not even at enhanced category.
hell freakin bane is at enhanced category when he is on venom and its perfectly clear as daylight that bane on venom is physically superior to batman by miles.
bane with no venom is batmans equal at stats and bane without venom is high athletic - peak human category.

so basically as i said earlier i will say again, batman does not have the stats to take out 50 guys attacking him at once.

Again, you misunderstand me. Sure, there are people stronger (the truck draggers, ripping metal apart etc). There are people faster (Usain Bolt, etc). There are probably people better at business dealings (Bill Gates, Warren Buffet). There are people who party harder (P Diddy, etc).

There isn't ANYONE in reality, who is faster, AND stronger, AND better at running a company, AND parties harder, than the comic book depiction of Bruce. Which is why, he does not exist in the real world. And that is why, trying to apply real world stats is useless, and he will beat the thugs. Because he is stronger AND at the same time, more skilled, AND at the same time, faster.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
All? Since when did Daredevil/Cap etc suddenly become masters in 127 martial arts? Are CEOs of their own business? Hold multiple degrees in different disciplines, as well as know how to fluently speak multiple languages? All at the same time as holding down a double life as a party goer (so imagine all the partying Paris Hilton does - now imagine she still finds time to fight crime every night on top of her party image). Are you saying in the real world, there exists these kind of people?



Again, you misunderstand me. Sure, there are people stronger (the truck draggers, ripping metal apart etc). There are people faster (Usain Bolt, etc). There are probably people better at business dealings (Bill Gates, Warren Buffet). There are people who party harder (P Diddy, etc).

There isn't ANYONE in reality, who is faster, AND stronger, AND better at running a company, AND parties harder, than the comic book depiction of Bruce. Which is why, he does not exist in the real world. And that is why, trying to apply real world stats is useless, and he will beat the thugs. Because he is stronger AND at the same time, more skilled, AND at the same time, faster.

what does batman having several personalities has to do with him being a super human as you claim? it just doesnt make any sense... it shows he got compressed lifestyle and he does a lot of things.... but to try and portray that as a criteria to being a super human? it doesnt make any sense at all seriously.
the reason i stated all street levelers is because they do the same thing, fight crime on street, have other personal life, so bruce is a billionare, someone is a lawyer, someone is something else.
but what does it have to do with super human abilities? Lol.

and this is exactly why batman can be considered a peak human, because he does the peak of what a human being could or should be able to do.
if all those athletes you mentioned could match him than he wouldnt be a peak human no longer he would be an average athlete.
the people you mentioned are all great but if we relate them to comics? they got athletic stats which should be below someone like batman.
however by feats overall batman doesnt represent anything that seriously could boost him up to the super human category.
by feats such as dislocating a shoulder while lifting weights or many others that clearly indicate us he is still in the human category.
or when he is matched against a low super human like deathstroke, or enhanced human like bane, and in both cases we see that batman is just inferior via stats.
all that leads us to the conclusion batman is above average and even trained human however he is under an enhanced specimen.

Hehe, glad you brought that up. I'm going to be posting how well he does against superhumans (including bane and death stroke)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hehe, glad you brought that up. I'm going to be posting how well he does against superhumans (including bane and death stroke)

it wont change anything because any street and his grandma got those.
overall by stats and the way he is portrayed against those guys via stats he is inferior.
you can show me batman defeating bane however it wont change the facts bane on venom is superior to him by stats, same with deathstroke.

So essentially, your reasoning is to ignore what comics show, and to rely on what handbooks say they are?

A dangerous way to go. If you were to create a thread saying that, I guarantee people will dogpile you, and they wouldn't be as polite as I've been....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So essentially, your reasoning is to ignore what comics show, and to rely on what handbooks say they are?

A dangerous way to go. If you were to create a thread saying that, I guarantee people will dogpile you, and they wouldn't be as polite as I've been....

no, my reasoning is to ignore the fact batman defeated a class 100 brick and to accept the fact that even though he won via PIS because he is freakin batman, he is inferior by stats overall.
if you show me batman beating bane on venom does it change the fact bane on venom got the higher stats?no.
you can show me batman defeating the JLA does that mean he is a class 100 persona?
this is the ABC of comics, just because the hero defeats some villian does not mean he is > that villian or anybody for that matter , thats comics for you.
by stats when batman faced slade it was made very clear slade is much faster stronger and overall better than him.
when he faced bane on venom once again it was stated very clearly that bane on venom is superior stats wise.
it is what it is, cap beats up superhumans for a living, would i put Cap above them? probably not.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Batman moves faster than any human can respond? Ok, you've gone full on delusional.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/th_Batmancupswitch2.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/th_Batmancupswitch1.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z259/almightykfish/th_Batmancupswitch3.jpg

Admittedly, there are faster humans in the pre DCNu verse than that guy, but that's an example of Bruce's ridiculous reaction times and such.

But lets be honest, this isn't even a hard fight for Batman. Sure, he's got a numbers disadvantage, but he's still ridiculous. I mean, "random thugs" basically means cannon fodder, and literally all street levelers from Marvel and DC can do this on a regular basis.

In other words, for you, it's PIS, whereas in this fight, the thugs are free of PIS, and so, would win.

Amirite?

Originally posted by wolverinos

this is the ABC of comics, just because the hero defeats some villian does not mean he is > that villian or anybody for that matter , thats comics for you
And that's why this thread will go round in circles. Comic logic will show Batman dealing with bigger threats than 50 thugs, and winning.

But real world logic dictates he won't.

But real world logic dictates Batman can't exist, so the whole exercise is pointless.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In other words, for you, it's PIS, whereas in this fight, the thugs are free of PIS, and so, would win.

Amirite?

you wana tell me its legit batman is beating up class 100 bricks? and my point was that even if he defeats someone it still does not mean he got the better physical stats.

Originally posted by wolverinos
you wana tell me its legit batman is beating up class 100 bricks? and my point was that even if he defeats someone it still does not mean he got the better physical stats.

How about skill, fighting experience and knowledge? Ignoring people like Deathstroke, because your thugs are nowhere near his level...

When did Bats beat up class 100 bricks, or the JLA for that natter?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How about skill, fighting experience and knowledge? Ignoring people like Deathstroke, because your thugs are nowhere near his level...

When did Bats beat up class 100 bricks, or the JLA for that natter?

he defeated half of the JLA with H2H , he actually hurt diana with H2H in that fight and took her out that actually was hilarious.
overall every street got some of those, but we need to separate those feats from the actual and real level of the character.

Scans/issue?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Scans/issue?

looking that up for you , uno momento senior.

BatGod wins, with ease. sneer

cant seem to find it but i will keep searching, as i remember he fought martian manhunter and diana and hurt them.
aside of that batman has many feats of actually physically giving diana trouble and that was explained the result of his skills...

anyway i found this scan though, the purpose is not to disrespect batman or start lowballing him but to show things as they are.
you think something like that would happen to slade? or bane on venom? or Cap? this showing is very accurate and shows us while batman is a very high level in stats he is still in the human category.
as batman claims himself thats 630 pounds, someone who is enhanced like wolverine or bane would easily handle that weight.

Originally posted by wolverinos
cant seem to find it but i will keep searching, as i remember he fought martian manhunter and diana and hurt them.
aside of that batman has many feats of actually physically giving diana trouble and that was explained the result of his skills...

anyway i found this scan though, the purpose is not to disrespect batman or start lowballing him but to show things as they are.
you think something like that would happen to slade? or bane on venom? or Cap? this showing is very accurate and shows us while batman is a very high level in stats he is still in the human category.
as batman claims himself thats 630 pounds, someone who is enhanced like wolverine or bane would easily handle that weight.

No offence, but that storyline was like from 1991 - more recent portrayals have him at higher. in any case, will let you continue searching for the JLA comic, because it sounds uber, and PIS.

Its not the Tower of Babel storyline, is it?

http://halozsak.hu/images/stories/kepregenyek/szuperhos/dc/batman/batman-lotdk-017/batman-lotdk-017-04hun.jpg
313 Kilo with ease = 690.046881 pounds

Originally posted by Batman-Prime

313 Kilo with ease = 690.046881 pounds

Worse, its in some weird foreign language. Non canon.

Incidentally I think the WR for a clean and press is held by Vasily Alexeev, with 565lbs.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59915&d=1062568225

Hardly the picture of a fast, graceful athlete, but I may be wrong.

This is silly. Real world logic doesn't work here.

6 or 7 of them surround him at the same time, one roundhouse kick + two punches and all 6 are down. Rinse and repeat. He'll be throwing them around, tossing them at each other and have them trip on one another. Easy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No offence, but that storyline was like from 1991 - more recent portrayals have him at higher. in any case, will let you continue searching for the JLA comic, because it sounds uber, and PIS.

Its not the Tower of Babel storyline, is it?

so whats if its 1991? should we ignore all his feats that aside of the recent ones? hell in his recent ones he is operating at very low levels so it wont really help your case.
it is a uber PIS but thats batman for you and thats his career, therefor we should judge him as an overall and not by some "wow" feats.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
http://halozsak.hu/images/stories/kepregenyek/szuperhos/dc/batman/batman-lotdk-017/batman-lotdk-017-04hun.jpg
313 Kilo with ease = 690.046881 pounds

with easy? he eventually lifts that weight but the scan i posted before shwos how much of a challenge that weight presented to him.
hell that 300 kilos were his nemesis in that story Lol, at frankly? we got real life olympic weight lifters who lift very close to 300 kilos and the record i believe is 350 or something close to that, so by all that showing batman is a high level athlete not even peak human.

Originally posted by wolverinos
with easy? he eventually lifts that weight but the scan i posted before shwos how much of a challenge that weight presented to him.
hell that 300 kilos were his nemesis in that story Lol, at frankly? we got real life olympic weight lifters who lift very close to 300 kilos and the record i believe is 350 or something close to that, so by all that showing batman is a high level athlete not even peak human.

Not with the clean and press, though. Check the records.

Originally posted by SamZED
This is silly. Real world logic doesn't work here.

6 or 7 of them surround him at the same time, one roundhouse kick + two punches and all 6 are down. Rinse and repeat. He'll be throwing them around, tossing them at each other and have them trip on one another. Easy.

as i said even in comics there is an extent of logic, otherwise whats good is it to divide stats by categories? lets just make everybody super human and have a fest.
but thats not the way things are, there are ones like batman that belong in the human category even though he got some cartoonish showings.

basically as with batman as with everybody else, he got some cartoonish showings in his comics which can indicate that he is class 100 , but we all know those cartoonish showings dont reflect much.
then there are more calculated showings that make him more of a human when we see batman being injured and tackled by 3 thugs on the street, every street leveler got some of those.
what we are looking for is the middle that really shows us who the character is.

batman while having high stats for a human does not and should not supress the human category.
when ever batman is pitted up against enhanced guys like deathstroke or bane on venom we clearly see he is inferior by stats and this always shows us he is more human than anything.

now as far as the 50 thugs? as i said get the cartoonish nonsense out of your head for a moment and then think rationally.
even though batman has very high stats for a human he is still human in all stats just on a high level.
there is not chance he can react to 6 different directions at the very same time.

and no he cant just toss everybody because the sheer mass and weight is too much for him to handle.
if 300 kilograms is a challenge for him to overcome than he got nothing to look for when facing 50 man.
someone with super human stats can do the things you stated not batman.

and no he cant kick away 6 man with a kick.
can you imagine the force it would take for a kick to swipe away 6 man? let me explain a little.
look at the thai fighter or MMA guys, they kick with full power and the opponent doesnt even move, because the impact is deflected by the mass and resistance of the opponent, the kick can cause internal damage but as far as just swiping someone ? no.
now batman of course is not your average guy and he got feats of kicking away people... i would even give him the benefit of the doubt that his kick can swipe 2 guys off their feet.
however if his kick meets 3 people or like you suggested 6... the sheer mass and resistance of that object constructed off 6 man will stop his leg and he will be taken down.

once again all the things you stated require around deathstroke level of strength and speed which batman doesnt possess.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not with the clean and press, though. Check the records.

i am talking about guys whi lift weights above their head, i know for a fact the average high level weight lifters lift more than 200 kilograms over their head.
here is an example i found within a second.
a casual strong guy lifting clean 240 kilograms, close to the weight batman struggled so much to lift.

LA0ZMis60eo

here is a guy deadlifting 300 kilograms.
i know its a deadlift but the scan i posted show batman failing to even deadlift that weight so ....
kOCh7MmD_B8

frankly i dont get why people are so trying to prove batman is a super human which he is clearly not.
the whole point of batman was to portray him as a very skilled and resourceful detective with superior skills and high athletic stats.
he was never meant to be really too much above a human, during his entire history he had fights with very tough goons which were portrayed to be physically stronger then him resulting in batman using skills to defeat the big goon.
i always saw batman as the DC daredevil.

Originally posted by wolverinos
frankly i dont get why people are so trying to prove batman is a super human which he is clearly not.
the whole point of batman was to portray him as a very skilled and resourceful detective with superior skills and high athletic stats.
he was never meant to be really too much above a human, during his entire history he had fights with very tough goons which were portrayed to be physically stronger then him resulting in batman using skills to defeat the big goon.
i always saw batman as the DC daredevil.

Daredevil could take 50 too, and I'm pretty sure has.


Big burly goons being stronger than him stopped being a thing in the 80s-90s, I'd say.