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Fight takes place in an abandoned Jedi Temple. Who wins?

Maul wins in a very close fight imo.

Maul.

Maul.

Maul kills Tiin in less than a very close fight.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Maul kills Tiin in less than a very close fight.

Maul kills Tiin before he even blinks....


And if he uses his Telepathy like the other idiot....coma...followed by an instant decapitation before his body hits the floor....

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Maul kills Tiin before he even blinks....


And if he uses his Telepathy like the other idiot....coma...followed by an instant decapitation before his body hits the floor....
Count Dooku is stronger then Darth Maul, and Mace Windu is stronger than Count, Saesee was able to hold his own in a sparring match with Mace Windu, I think BOTH, not just Mace, but Saesee too, were holding back. I have no proof, but I'm highly sure Jedi hold back in sparring matches even with training sabers.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Maul kills Tiin in less than a very close fight.

This.

I'm wondering about a pure force contest

Tiin has the accolades to put on a good fight. This can go either way.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Tiin has the accolades to put on a good fight. This can go either way. I agree...

No this can not go either way. Maul wins every time. Heck it wouldn't surprise me if Maul could take Tiin and Kolar together.

...

mmm

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Maul kills Tiin in less than a very close fight.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No this can not go either way. Maul wins every time. Heck it wouldn't surprise me if Maul could take Tiin and Kolar together.

Nah. Obi-Wan is probably only slightly better than Tiin and Maul is on par with Kenobi.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Nah. Obi-Wan is probably only slightly better than Tiin and Maul is on par with Kenobi.

This.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Nah. Obi-Wan is probably only slightly better than Tiin and Maul is on par with Kenobi.

Silly logic. Especially when you have Zero proof that Kenobi is only slightly above Tiin.

Whilst I do have proof that Opress/Maul are above even some of the best Council Members. With Opress battering Plo Koon and Ventress and with DaveFiloni confirming Maul/Opress put up better against Sidious than Kolar/Tiin and Fisto.

Also Kenobi tends to go up a notch whenever he faces Maul. Otherwise going by his other Clone War showings he really shouldn't be on par with Maul.

What proof is there that Kenobi is more than slightly above Tiin?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What proof is there that Kenobi is more than slightly above Tiin?

Defeating Opress, Ventress, Maul, Sith Anakin.

What the heck has Tiin done to put him on par with Kenobi?

Ventress is the only legit one.

Held his own against Mace.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Defeating Opress, Ventress, Maul, Sith Anakin.

What the heck has Tiin done to put him on par with Kenobi?

He held his own against Mace Windu and was chosen as one of the top 4 people to go against Sidious as only the top people of the council were chosen, which means Tiin was very very powerful, I feel that they kinda nerf'd him like they did to Meetra Surik in the "Revan" Novel, he's more powerful then you'd think.

Meetra got robbed. Karpheshyn did not play The Sith Lords, and it shows.

Has Obi-Wan ever been directly considered as one of the best swordsmen the order ever had? Saesee Tiin has.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Has Obi-Wan ever been directly considered as one of the best swordsmen the order ever had? Saesee Tiin has.

Obi-Wan's the best Soresu practitioner in the era, bar none. He can't hold a candle to true prodigies like Dooku or Mace, but I doubt Tiin is near their level as well.

Tiin is noted for being a telepathic starfighter recluse, and for being pumped up unnecessarily to make Sidious look more badass for having the ability to "stab Tiin before the latter can so much as blink in 30 seconds of movie time".

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Ventress is the only legit one.

Held his own against Mace.

Opress and Sith Anakin were not legit?

You can't possibly think him matching Maul is not legit simply because he's done it consistently.

And Dave Filoni actually said it's not believable for Opress to take Kenobi in a fair fight.

Tiin holding his own against a holding back Mace is not really comparable to consistently stalemating Maul.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And Dave Filoni actually said it's not believable for Opress to take Kenobi in a fair fight.

Quote & source, bro.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Tiin holding his own against a holding back Mace is not really comparable to consistently stalemating Maul.
Given that Mace is better than Maul, sure it is.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Quote & source, bro.


http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/03/21/star-wars-the-clone-wars-looking-back-at-season-4?page=4


IGN: Savage doesn't participate, as far as we see, in the slaughter of those people. He's been corrupted by Talzin and Dooku, but would he go along with that? What does he think of that - of Maul's plan basically being, "I'm going to kill a bunch of innocent people, and that'll bring Obi-Wan here"?

Filoni: Well, I hate to say it, and it's off-camera, but I think you have to assume that Savage goes along with it. He understands his brother's need for revenge. He's such a twisted, contorted character. He's such a Frankenstein in our world. There was an original version where, in the hologram, Savage was standing with Maul when they communicate with the Jedi Temple, but I said, "This really doesn't work if they're both there." Because are not aware of the connection between them. So if he's not there, it's actually more believable that they could surprise Obi-Wan and actually take him out. That was a very difficult thing to set up to make you believe that they could take out Obi-Wan.




I'm guessing it wasn't believable for Maul to take out Obi-Wan at the time because he was just resurrected, hadn't been in a proper fight in 10+years, which they actually mention later in the same interview.

But the only reason it wouldn't be believable for Opress to do it is because he's just not as good as Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Given that Mace is better than Maul, sure it is.

Given that Tiin is clearly not even close to Mace's level in a real fight (as proven by their performances against Sidious), that "feat" of Tiin's really means nothing.

That's not sufficient.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Given that Tiin is clearly not even close to Mace's level in a real fight (as proven by their performances against Sidious), that "feat" of Tiin's really means nothing.
Except that the speed difference between Sidious and Tiin is bigger than the one between Tiin and Mace.

Yes but clearly the difference between Sidious and Tiin is Stupidly Huge. And Mace fought at least on par with Sidious.

So what Tiin is almost as good as Maul now? Urm.. Don't think so. Sparring well against Mace is impressive but no where near as Impressive as the things Kenobi has done simply because Kenobi accomplished his feats in real fights.

Has he?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes but clearly the difference between Sidious and Tiin is Stupidly Huge. And Mace fought at least on par with Sidious.

So what Tiin is almost as good as Maul now? Urm.. Don't think so. Sparring well against Mace is impressive but no where near as Impressive as the things Kenobi has done simply because Kenobi accomplished his feats in real fights. Its proven that Mace was fighting for his VERY LIFE. Admitting that Sidious is too strong to Anakin. Sidious was holding back to trick Anakin.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Its proven that Mace was fighting for his VERY LIFE. Admitting that Sidious is too strong to Anakin. Sidious was holding back to trick Anakin.

Erm, where was this proven?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Erm, where was this proven?

This is an opinion backed up by implications in the Novel that was trying to show off Sidious' power, even going so far as to say "This shadow/man (I forget which) is beyond Vaapad." I only said it was proven that Mace was fighting for his life, not that he was trying to trick anakin, the proof that Mace says Sidious is too strong is in the Novel.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
This is an opinion backed up by implications in the Novel that was trying to show off Sidious' power, even going so far as to say "This shadow/man (I forget which) is beyond Vaapad." I only said it was proven that Mace was fighting for his life, not that he was trying to trick anakin, the proof that Mace says Sidious is too strong is in the Novel.

No sir, Mace Windu is infinitely stronger than Sidious and did not fight for his life. I mean, he did a front kick and disarmed the Sith Lord. That's just stompage right there.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No sir, Mace Windu is infinitely stronger than Sidious and did not fight for his life. I mean, he did a front kick and disarmed the Sith Lord. That's just stompage right there.
My evidence isn't G-Canon but it's still valid in the Star Wars universe, Mace, in the Novel, admitted that Sidious was too strong for him to Anakin.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Held his own against Mace.

In a sparring match... Whoop-dee-****ing-doo.

Originally posted by ares834
In a sparring match... Whoop-dee-****ing-doo.

Still held his own.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Still held his own.

It's a sparring match... lol

It's not like they are actually fighting and trying to defeat one another.

Heck, Quinlan Vos also "held his own" against Windu in a sparring match once. But then Windu got serious (because Vos used a Vaapad move) and pwned him in a single move.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Has Obi-Wan ever been directly considered as one of the best swordsmen the order ever had? Saesee Tiin has.

Yes. In fact, Fisto comments on the way to Sidious that he wishes Kenobi was there instead, and Tiin shushes him and say they'd be plenty.

Kenobi is #4 in the order of the time. Mace, Yoda, Anakin, Kenobi. And 3 and 4 are really darn close, as was shown.


Mace considers Kenobi the best soresu practitioner in the order, better than him, and unlike Tiin, Kenobi backs this up with outside feats.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
My evidence isn't G-Canon but it's still valid in the Star Wars universe, Mace, in the Novel, admitted that Sidious was too strong for him to Anakin.

http://chan.catiewayne.com/z/src/131664867972.gif

Originally posted by Q99
Kenobi is #4 in the order of the time. Mace, Yoda, Anakin, Kenobi. And 3 and 4 are really darn close, as was shown.


I would say, that 2 and 3 are much closer, then 3 and 4. And it's obvious, that Yoda is #1.

If you can have a 20-minute fight, I consider you pretty darned close!

Hard to tell. I'm one of those guys, who consider Anakin from Mustafar as waker then from IH or Jedi Temple.

Anyway, Kenobi always did well against Anakin, so yeah, they are close against each other. But Anakin is much better against any other opponent. In that way, they aren't close.

Originally posted by Q99
If you can have a 20-minute fight, I consider you pretty darned close!

They're close when fighting each other only because they know each others moves do well. But against other opponents Anakin is always shown to be superior.

I personally agree that Mace and Anakin are much closer. Heck in the Zone Anakin will be superior to Mace.. But I also agree Kenobi is no.4.

Zonakin is even superior to Yoda and Sidious imo.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He held his own against Mace Windu and was chosen as one of the top 4 people to go against Sidious as only the top people of the council were chosen, which means Tiin was very very powerful, I feel that they kinda nerf'd him like they did to Meetra Surik in the "Revan" Novel, he's more powerful then you'd think.


http://i48.tinypic.com/ksq4m.jpg

I guess by that logic Quinlan Vos should be on par with Kenobi as well because of this.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090219155514/starwars/images/f/f6/WinduVosVaapad.jpg

Also Anakin in the zone would comfortably defeat Mace who is stated throughout the mythos to be Dooku's equal at best. This is backed up by Mace himself stating Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi in the Order, while Yoda, the greatest foe darkness has ever known was still breathing. The same Yoda who disarmed Sidious in under a minute.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
They're close when fighting each other only because they know each others moves do well. But against other opponents Anakin is always shown to be superior.

I personally agree that Mace and Anakin are much closer. Heck in the Zone Anakin will be superior to Mace.. But I also agree Kenobi is no.4.

Fair enough.

One of Kenobi's real talents is his brains. When given a chance to study his opponents, it helps.

"You have to be either Yoda or Mace to compete with Sidious" ~ George Lucas

Originally posted by JediMaster97
"You have to be either Yoda or Mace to compete with Sidious" ~ George Lucas

Actually the full quote is " You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the emperor, Anakin could have defeated the emperor if he hadn't gotten all beat up. "

Also I just told you Mortis trilogy cane from Lucas (and a lot more recently than your quote) so either address the point or so trolling.

According to Sidious though, Vader's power in the force shouldn't have been affected. Its all in the dudes head.

Originally posted by Nephthys
According to Sidious though, Vader's power in the force shouldn't have been affected. Its all in the dudes head.


Or in other words, Kenobi beat him so bad it affected him from then on out.

Though iirc Lucas indicated the cybernetics did matter.


So I'd say it's a combination of factors. Like, were it just the cybernetics alone, he could've still likely passed Palpatine, it just would've taken a lot longer than without. But the psychological blow made it a one-two punch.

Originally posted by Zett
No, it's not. Zonakin bested Dooku is about 30 seconds, while Yoda, the best swordmaster of the saga, was unable to do.
Also, in ROTS game Anakin bested Windu. I know, that's nocanon, but it's much more, then your opinion.

In game Windu's defense he was far from fresh having just dueled with the greatest Sith Lord in history.

^
Yeah, that's a point. But on the other hand, in that game, Windu only dueled Sidious with sabers. Sidious didn't use his lightning.

Anakin is the most inconsistent character in the context of his power progression/projection/depiction in the mythos.

I have not been able to understand his exploits on Mortis till date; did The Father influenced/augmented him? Anakin's performance on Mortis alone is massively inconsistent with his performance in other parts of the galaxy.

Also, I refuse to believe that so-called Zonakin can overcome any other Force-user in direct confrontation. He was not able to dominate Dooku in a contest of Force powers at any point as an example. And Dooku is neither the greatest duelist and nor the strongest Force-user in the whole mythos.

Anakin was drawing on the power of Mortis.

Which the Son and Daughter also had access to. I don't see why people always act as if only Anakin gets an amp on Mortis.

If the argument is that Anakin gets "more of an amp" on a force nexus then, there's many other places Anakin can get all Uber including the Jedi temple itself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin is the most inconsistent character in the context of his power progression/projection/depiction in the mythos.

.

He consistently stalemates Count Dooku, making him easily the 3rd most powerful Jedi on a consistent basis.

His innate power however can make him potentially much stronger in "Zone/Complete Clarity" moments.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Which the Son and Daughter also had access to. I don't see why people always act as if only Anakin gets an amp on Mortis.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin is the most inconsistent character in the context of his power progression/projection/depiction in the mythos.

I have not been able to understand his exploits on Mortis till date; did The Father influenced/augmented him? Anakin's performance on Mortis alone is massively inconsistent with his performance in other parts of the galaxy.

Also, I refuse to believe that so-called Zonakin can overcome any other Force-user in direct confrontation. He was not able to dominate Dooku in a contest of Force powers at any point as an example. And Dooku is neither the greatest duelist and nor the strongest Force-user in the whole mythos.

I'd say there are more inconsistent characters. Luke being one very good example.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin is the most inconsistent character in the context of his power progression/projection/depiction in the mythos.

I have not been able to understand his exploits on Mortis till date; did The Father influenced/augmented him? Anakin's performance on Mortis alone is massively inconsistent with his performance in other parts of the galaxy.

Also, I refuse to believe that so-called Zonakin can overcome any other Force-user in direct confrontation. He was not able to dominate Dooku in a contest of Force powers at any point as an example. And Dooku is neither the greatest duelist and nor the strongest Force-user in the whole mythos.

Full-Potential Anakin is the strongest person in the Mythos.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Which the Son and Daughter also had access to. I don't see why people always act as if only Anakin gets an amp on Mortis.

So? Much of their power comes from Mortis. Perhaps they are merely average Force users without it.

lol

Maul takes this I don't doubt but it is impossible to say how easily.

Has Tinn been in any other serious duels than against Sidious? Because it is impossible to judge him off that fight as even if he were better than Maul he would have gone done just as fast.

To be honest, I'm just assuming Maul is better because Tinn would be a far more significant character if he were that powerful.

Maul is a beast, I would put him above Obi-wan and Savage Opress - who each I think could take out Saesee Tiin - so Maul could win with more ease in mind.

Originally posted by Oneness
Maul is a beast, I would put him above Obi-wan and Savage Opress - who each I think could take out Saesee Tiin - so Maul could win with more ease in mind. Savage got beat in two moves by Maul, Obi-Wan fought them both at once and broke Savage's leg. He was somehow able to TK Dooku and Ventress, but thats his most notable feat. (Besides killing Adi Gallia)

Maul matched Sidious in speed in their duel. Tinn got blitzed. End of story.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Full-Potential Anakin is the strongest person in the Mythos.

In G-Canon, this is true. However, outside of G-canon, it is less clear. This argument presupposes several things:

1. All midi-chlorian counts of all characters were measured up to Anakin's and found lacking. (This is false. An overwhelming majority of SW characters in EU do not have definite midi-chlorian counts. Even Hestizo Trace got a nebulous "known for having a high count" instead of a direct number)

2. Anakin ever realized his potential. (He didn't, ever outside of momentary bursts or plot devices. Full-potential Anakin is not measurable and therefore not able to be compared to canon characters in the same way Dark Side Yoda is not measurable or comparable. We assume both would be exponentially stronger, but there's no real way to determine this definitively.)

3. Anakin was ever on the track to realizing his potential. This sounds entirely odd, but the truth is that not every Force user reaches their absolute peak before death or worse. Exar Kun, Revan, and Savage are examples of exceptional Force users who were cut down very young, and lacked the time, dedication, and wisdom that would have accompanied old age. If anything, Luke's potential is greater than Anakin's not because of some arbitrary power level number but because of his own temperament and ability to learn coupled with his longer lifespan and different role in the galaxy (mentor and defender versus wayward apprentice and later Sith enforcer).

If you had to claim an absolute strongest person based on raw potential (unaided), it should be Luke, not Anakin. Anakin's temperament, lack of formal studies, and lack of diverse education both before and after his maiming prevented him from ever realizing his potential. Luke meanwhile with less training went on to surpass him at an accelerated rate and lived long enough to end up being something of a Jedi paragon.

That being said, aided or augmented persons have demonstrated power and mastery above and beyond Anakin/Vader, so the point is really just speculation. Full Potential Anakin could be powerful enough to move suns with his mind, or barely stronger than Malgus or Sidious; either way, he's not gonna be in any of our fights.

MAUL

NO TIIN HAS HORNS. YOU LOSE.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Savage got beat in two moves by Maul, Obi-Wan fought them both at once and broke Savage's leg. He was somehow able to TK Dooku and Ventress, but thats his most notable feat. (Besides killing Adi Gallia)

Beg your pardon but I think you're downplaying Savage here.

1) Yes, Maul beat him with ease but he's Maul. No shame in losing to him.

2) Savage's leg only gave out after repeated kicks to his knee. Plus in that fight the brothers were hampered by a lack of room (as they had to be careful not to get in each other's way while Kenobi had no such problem), and IIRC weren't they trying to take Kenobi alive and so wouldn't be able to go all-out?

3) Savage Force-choking Dooku and Ventress shows how powerful he is. He had a lot of potential, he just never fully unlocked it.

MAUL wins....
flawless victory...
Saesee Tinn's telepathy won't help him either...remember the last guy who tried to attack Maul.,
mentally ? I rest my case......

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
NO TIIN HAS HORNS. YOU LOSE.

Tiin has half of a horn...one broken...one isn't....yet....
Maul and Savage have horns.....and Tiin still looses....horns and all!!

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Maul wins in a very close fight imo.

Bumping a 2005 cancer thread would've been more sensible.

Tiin ragdolls.

Tiin throws him 4km

Maul trashes Tiin.