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Setting is in the place Sidious fought Maul + Savage.

HoT. Kun's not gaining any advantage with sorcery imo.

Hmm, Kun's leading in the votes. I'm undecided myself.

HoT easily,

How teh fahk is Kun leading?

Exar Kun is the second most powerful sith lord behind Palpatine, get your facts straight, this is a stomp.

Ahem. I believe the HoT is now leading in the voting.
My fault? Maaaaaybe.

Kun > Vitiate as second most powerful Sith? I'd rather go with Vitiate personally.

How is HoT going to get around the amulet blasts?

What has Kun done with his blasts outside the temple?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What has Kun done with his blasts outside the temple?

When has Obi-Wan been seen shitting in the movies or comics?

CLEARLY HE CANNOT DO SO.

Also, I voted for the rag on the stick. It was too stupid to pass up.

I don't think Intrepid was doubting he could do it, just questioning how powerful it would actually be outside the temple, which Tempest says possesses 'tremendous energies.'

The narration notes its coming from his own rage and doubles in power every time. It does not say anything about the energies aiding this power whatsoever, so assuming otherwise begs for proof.

Yup. That's why he used it for the ritual when he drained the inhabitants.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yup. That's why he used it for the ritual when he drained the inhabitants.

Ritual != Amulet blasts in combat.

I'm not following you here.

huh

Those eloquent replies are killing me.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The narration notes its coming from his own rage and doubles in power every time. It does not say anything about the energies aiding this power whatsoever, so assuming otherwise begs for proof.

Yeah, but its the amulet that is artificially amping his rage and his 'dark energies' that fuels the amulet. If his power was increased by the energies of the temple, would that not increase the power of the amulet blasts?

This is a problem that I've brought up with Tempest: Do we assume that people are amped by nexuses by merely being on them? Does it need to be said at all or is it enough for the nexus to be there? Personally, I would agree with you but I'm bringing it up anyway.

lol @ Kun>Vitiate. Vitiate is canonically the more powerful one.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, but its the amulet that is artificially amping his rage and his 'dark energies' that fuels the amulet. If his power was increased by the energies of the temple, would that not increase the power of the amulet blasts?

This is a problem that I've brought up with Tempest: Do we assume that people are amped by nexuses by merely being on them? Does it need to be said at all or is it enough for the nexus to be there? Personally, I would agree with you but I'm bringing it up anyway.

Hm, good point. Is there a buff? I think so. How measurable is that buff is the real question. If the narration said "the amulet drew upon the dark energies and, coupled with his own inner rage, unleashed powerful blasts" I'd be absolutely inclined to say that the amulets are situational and probably shouldn't even be brought up. But the narration notes specifically the interplay between Kun's rage and the amulet itself.

http://imageshack.us/a/img215/7927/killsnadd.jpg

http://s16.postimg.org/lxwxdfyqd/kunspower.jpg

^ This is pretty explicit.

It's also activated any time Sadow or Kun use Force powers regardless of location, which seems to say that it is amplifying the user independently of a nexus. There's the point at which Kun is using the Force to manipulate the chancellor and the amulet sparks.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
lol @ Kun>Vitiate. Vitiate is canonically the more powerful one.

I wouldn't base this off canonical statements since these:

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/G1d3on91/ExarKunStarWarsEncyclopedia_zps2cfb5a7e.png

"The most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords, Exar Kun was once the apprentice of the Jedi Master Vodo Siosk-Baas" (The Official Star Wars Fact File)

were applied to Exar Kun.

Vitiate was alive at the time, still building up his Empire, so would that not indicate Kun is more powerful than him? Even if he were only 'once' the most powerful Sith, that would still imply he was more powerful than Vitiate was in the time he lived.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Hm, good point. Is there a buff? I think so. How measurable is that buff is the real question. If the narration said "the amulet drew upon the dark energies and, coupled with his own inner rage, unleashed powerful blasts" I'd be absolutely inclined to say that the amulets are situational and probably shouldn't even be brought up. But the narration notes specifically the interplay between Kun's rage and the amulet itself.

http://imageshack.us/a/img215/7927/killsnadd.jpg

http://s16.postimg.org/lxwxdfyqd/kunspower.jpg

^ This is pretty explicit.

It's also activated any time Sadow or Kun use Force powers regardless of location, which seems to say that it is amplifying the user independently of a nexus. There's the point at which Kun is using the Force to manipulate the chancellor and the amulet sparks.

You make a good argument. So you don't believe the temple amplified the blasts or the power of the amulet?

To be more correct, I don't think we can assume how much if at all it impacted the amulet's powers, since said powers were tied to Kun's rage and in all interactions and narration are shown to be amplifying Kun rather than being itself amplified. It could very well be the case that Kun is getting a buff, but we can't argue the amulets outside of the context in which they are presented, and that context explicitly does not mention a nexus.

Also, when the hell did millions die? Exar Kun was DLotS for all of six months before the entire Jedi Order burnt Yavin IV trying to isolate him. I don't recall this directly in the comics.

Well he did blow up Ossus. And didn't his forces attack Coruscant?

Oh right. Totally spaced on that one. Good catch.

My memory is augmented.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/35147738.jpg

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
lol @ Kun>Vitiate. Vitiate is canonically the more powerful one.

An argument could certainly be made.

Furthermore, the Vitiate the HoT did defeat was canonically weakened (although also on a DS nexus) plus the fact that he could beat Vitate does not necessarily mean he could defeat Kun.

Ultimately, I see the HoT having a very hard time getting past the amulet blasts.

The HoT does have very good defenses.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j361/JanusMarius/Screenshot_2011-12-17_02_02_34_271880.jpg

And she's hot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The HoT does have very good defenses.

Sure, but how is he going to be able to defend against the blasts? Dodge them?

Force Shield? Tutaminis? Maybe block them with a lightsaber?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
And she's hot.

My gals half darkside so she's all veiny and creepy looking.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wouldn't base this off canonical statements since these:

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/G1d3on91/ExarKunStarWarsEncyclopedia_zps2cfb5a7e.png

"The most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords, Exar Kun was once the apprentice of the Jedi Master Vodo Siosk-Baas" (The Official Star Wars Fact File)

were applied to Exar Kun.

Vitiate was alive at the time, still building up his Empire, so would that not indicate Kun is more powerful than him? Even if he were only 'once' the most powerful Sith, that would still imply he was more powerful than Vitiate was in the time he lived.

Well, when was such a statement made? Wasn't it before the character Vitiate was even created? That's a contradiction in canon, as Vitiate has been said in many sources as the most powerful sith lord to have ever existed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Force Shield? Tutaminis? Maybe block them with a lightsaber?

Admittedly, I didn't beat the JK story-line. But has the HoT ever shown any aptitude in those first two skills?

As for blocking it with a lightsaber, perhaps.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Force Shield? Tutaminis? Maybe block them with a lightsaber?



My gals half darkside so she's all veiny and creepy looking.

Dark Side corruption looks retarded on almost everyone. True Sith turn into rotten salmon.

Originally posted by ares834
Admittedly, I didn't beat the JK story-line. But has the HoT ever shown any aptitude in those first two skills?

As for blocking it with a lightsaber, perhaps.

Yeah, the guy who beat Vitiate doesn't know how to do a force shield or tutaminis.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, the guy who beat Vitiate doesn't know how to do a force shield or tutaminis.

Thought it was obvious, but I was wondering if there is evidence that he can use it to such a high level where he could defend himself against Kun's amulet blasts.

You think a lightsaber could absorb an amulet blast like it does lightning? Not sure how that'd go.

Originally posted by ares834
Thought it was obvious, but I was wondering if there is evidence that he can use it to such a high level where he could defend himself against Kun's amulet blasts.

Well the HoT might block possessed Kira's lightning with a shield? Its unclear but it looks that way:

Fjh6vparLcw#t=420

6. 45. Could be a glitch.

And in their fight with Vitiate they resist his wave:

2pwPRbwaT2A#t=174

2.40. I just think that if they could take everything Vitiate can dish out, they can likely do the same for Kun.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wouldn't base this off canonical statements since these:

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/G1d3on91/ExarKunStarWarsEncyclopedia_zps2cfb5a7e.png

"The most powerful and dangerous of all Sith Lords, Exar Kun was once the apprentice of the Jedi Master Vodo Siosk-Baas" (The Official Star Wars Fact File)

were applied to Exar Kun.

Vitiate was alive at the time, still building up his Empire, so would that not indicate Kun is more powerful than him? Even if he were only 'once' the most powerful Sith, that would still imply he was more powerful than Vitiate was in the time he lived.

Oh, Neph...
Those statements are from 2005 and 2009 specifically, both points in time when Vitiate wasn't even invented. Such things can't be ignored. If they were, you could also say that Kun was "the darkest power in the Galaxy" (don't recall the source where to find this quote) when the Galaxy did host the Star Forge, Vitiate, The Son, Abeloth and several dark side nexus at the same time. Doesn't make much sense.



To be honest: I doubt that the temple even hosted those "tremendous energies" before Kun conducted his ritual draining the Massassi. At best, they could have been a dark side nexus, due to the presence of Naga Sadow and the Massassi. Even a strong one. But that doesn't turn people into force gods or does "boost" their abilities on a considerable level. The Sith that have died on Korriban (dark side nexus) and the Jedi that died in the Temple on Coruscant (light side nexus) could tell you as much...

Originally posted by Nai
Oh, Neph...
Those statements are from 2005 and 2009 specifically, both points in time when Vitiate wasn't even invented. Such things can't be ignored. If they were, you could also say that Kun was "the darkest power in the Galaxy" (don't recall the source where to find this quote) when the Galaxy did host the Star Forge, Vitiate, The Son, Abeloth and several dark side nexus at the same time. Doesn't make much sense.

Oh I know. I pay no mind to those sources. I generally disregard all such claims of being 'the most powerful'. I was just pointing out to XSUPREMEXSKILLZ how his argument can be easily turned on its head.

Originally posted by Nai
To be honest: I doubt that the temple even hosted those "tremendous energies" before Kun conducted his ritual draining the Massassi. At best, they could have been a dark side nexus, due to the presence of Naga Sadow and the Massassi. Even a strong one. But that doesn't turn people into force gods or does "boost" their abilities on a considerable level. The Sith that have died on Korriban (dark side nexus) and the Jedi that died in the Temple on Coruscant (light side nexus) could tell you as much...

When was this quote said? I had assumed it was made when Kun arrived there, but if it was from the Jedi Academy era, then I'd say obviously we can't say thats reflective of it in Kuns time there.

I agree with that latter part though. People such as Gideon or Silver over on comicvine really overvalue the power of a nexus and often use it to senselessly disregard showings and feats in my opinion.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well, when was such a statement made? Wasn't it before the character Vitiate was even created? That's a contradiction in canon, as Vitiate has been said in many sources as the most powerful sith lord to have ever existed.

Of course, even though my point to Nai above stands, I'll point out that it doesn't have to be a contradiction. Since according to SWTORE Vitiates power is constantly increasing he could easily have just surpassed Kun after the latters death and stolen the title of histories most powerful Sith from him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh I know. I pay absolutely no mind to those sources. I generally disregard all such claims of being 'the most powerful'. I was just pointing out to XSUPREMEXSKILLZ how his argument can be easily turned on its head.

No. Even if It stated Exar Kun was the most powerful, that is overridden by newer canonical sources claiming Vitiate's superiority over Kun.

But I do agree that I always found the, "But he was on a nexus!" argument to be a little mysterious.

I edited my response. Look again for my reply to that.

Yeah just saw that.

Anyway:

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
No. Even if It stated Exar Kun was the most powerful, that is overridden by newer canonical sources claiming Vitiate's superiority over Kun.

But I do agree that I always found the, "But he was on a nexus!" argument to be a little mysterious.

Yeah, I agree. Mostly because I don't care, but I don't pay attention to say, Sidious being said to be the bestest ever since peeps like Vitiate (or Darth Nox) weren't even around when those sources were written.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well, when was such a statement made?

Kun's accolade from the Fact File came from 2001; the Encyclopedia entry in 2008.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Wasn't it before the character Vitiate was even created?

Yep.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That's a contradiction in canon, as Vitiate has been said in many sources as the most powerful sith lord to have ever existed.

Not necessarily. Kun might have been more powerful at the time and Vitiate surpassed him later, after Kun's death. The encyclopedia reworded and retconned the Fact File and opened the door for Kun's successors to surpass him.

Meh, I still agree that Sidious is the strongest, considering we still have DE Sids running around. But once that wall is knocked down by Episode VII...

Aren't the only good things Sidious does in DE use Force Storm and get Judo thrown by pregnant Leia?

I forget, why do we see that incarnation as obviously the most powerful Sith Lord ever again?

Because he has not only his extensive experience and force mastery, but a young body to go along with it? Because Sidious himself says he felt far more powerful than he ever was (doesnt he?) Plus considering it took DE Luke being amped by Leia's BM just to beat Sidious in a saber duel...

Originally posted by Nai
To be honest: I doubt that the temple even hosted those "tremendous energies" before Kun conducted his ritual draining the Massassi.

No, the text issues that quote as Kun regains consciousness inside the temple after having been captured by the Massassi.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Because he has not only his extensive experience and force mastery, but a young body to go along with it? Because Sidious himself says he felt far more powerful than he ever was (doesnt he?) Plus considering it took DE Luke being amped by Leia's BM just to beat Sidious in a saber duel...

Young bodies that are being killed by his power and iirc were corrupted? Couldn't that just as easily be detrimental to his prowess as helpful?

And I dunno about him saying he was more powerful and meh, DE Lukes not all that.

If DE Sidious literally just gets out of the cloning facilities in a fresh new body, i'm pretty sure he's far more powerful than RotS Sidious. However, extended time in the same body would weaken him. But for the sake of this, we say it's Sidious in a fresh young clone.

DE Luke TK'd an AT-AT, did he not? Plus he was being amped by Leia.

The Ultimate Visual Guide says Palpatine studied in the Force to become more powerful during his recovery on Byss.

And DE!Luke withstood an AT-AT's blasters, then deflected a second salvo back with his lightsaber, then brought it down with negligible TK.

He's not top fiver material by any means, but he's damn good.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well the HoT might block possessed Kira's lightning with a shield? Its unclear but it looks that way:

Fjh6vparLcw#t=420

6. 45. Could be a glitch.

Seems like she is supposed to be killing Angral there.

?

The lightning is nowhere near Angral? Its aimed at the Knight's head, with Angral on the ground.

Yeah, due to shitty ingame graphics.

*shrug*

We see Kira shoot the lightning, Angral die, and the HoT turn pretty much simultaneously. There is even a scene where it zooms in on Angral dieing with Kira shooting lightning in the background and then Kira pulls Angral's lightsaber to herself. That's what I see. I certainly don't see the HoT using the force to block it.

Edit: Certainly unclear though.

Why would Vitiate kill Angral? The former considered the latter vastly important.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Why would Vitiate kill Angral? The former considered the latter vastly important.

Well, Angral was defeated and presumably dying or at least badly wounded. And he wanted Angral's lightsaber I guess.

Originally posted by ares834
Yeah, due to shitty ingame graphics.

*shrug*

We see Kira shoot the lightning, Angral die, and the HoT turn pretty much simultaneously. There is even a scene where it zooms in on Angral dieing with Kira shooting lightning in the background and then Kira pulls Angral's lightsaber to herself. That's what I see. I certainly don't see the HoT using the force to block it.

Edit: Certainly unclear though.

The lightning is stopping in midair right behind the Hero's back. What, is it going to boomerang down and kill Angral? I say its being blocked because, well it stops in midair as if striking a barrier.

Angral just died of his wounds.

When the lightning is "blocked" the HoT isn't even looking at Kira. In fact, he turns in, what appears to be, surprise when she shoots the lightning. Furthermore, there is no animation showing the HoT blocking the lightning. It just doesn't reach him.

The only conclusion that can successfully be drawn here is that TOR sucks.

TOR no suck

Originally posted by ares834
When the lightning is "blocked" the HoT isn't even looking at Kira. In fact, he turns in, what appears to be, surprise when she shoots the lightning. Furthermore, there is no animation showing the HoT blocking the lightning. It just doesn't reach him.

And shown in the same cutscene, the HoT can use the Force without gesturing. Is it so hard to believe that they automatically erected a shield through reacting to the attack via some manner of precognitive ability? Or that they just have a shield constantly active like the Sith are taught to in the Bane era?

Originally posted by Nephthys
And shown in the same cutscene, the HoT can use the Force without gesturing. Is it so hard to believe that they automatically erected a shield through reacting to the attack via some manner of precognitive ability? Or that they just have a shield constantly active like the Sith are taught to in the Bane era?

Yeah. Because we see absolutely nothing indicating such. Also, been awhile since I read PoD, but where are they taught to keep up shields constantly. Not even Yoda does that.

Edit: Never-mind find it. God is Drew an incompetent Star Wars author.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
TOR no suck

It suck bro.

It suck hard.

Much like Neph's mom.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll2c2tnhwg1qc3ycvo1_500.gif

Originally posted by ares834
Yeah. Because we see absolutely nothing indicating such. Also, been awhile since I read PoD, but where are they taught to keep up shields constantly. Not even Yoda does that.

Then did the lightning just evaporate midstream?

They're taught to always erect one in battle to prevent someone from surprising them with the Force.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Then did the lightning just evaporate midstream?

That's what seems to be happening in the animation.

Sure.

We'll call that option B.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It suck bro.

It suck hard.

Much like Neph's mom.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll2c2tnhwg1qc3ycvo1_500.gif

Have you ever even tried TOR?

Agreed on the last part

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It suck bro.

It suck hard.

Much like Neph's mom.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll2c2tnhwg1qc3ycvo1_500.gif

You're just bitter that Sidious robes weren't included in the first 2 hours of gameplay.