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Kratos has his standard equipment who wins.

Does Machamp stick to a designated moveset, or can he just use anything?

Lets have him do any move he wants to make it fair.

I think Kratos would come up on top.

Kratos

I'd argue that a lot of this depends on whether or not you let Machamp's stat decreasing moves affect Kratos. Like, if you'll let Scary Face lower his speed or not. But as it stands Kratos outclasses Machamp. So that means Machamp needs to take advantage of those stat decreasing moves, as well as other moves like Toxic, Double Team, Attract, Thief, and so on.

Say for example, does Power Trick work on Kratos? Or Knock Off?

A specific game for Kratos would help, too.

I remember when I made this thread years ago. ScreamPaste and NemeBro were at eachothers throats debating whether or not Kratos can dodge Machamp's punches since he can dodge Zeus' lightning. Good times.

Going by what the POke'dex says, and going by what we've seen Machamp do...is he really anywhere even near Kratos?

Machamp is stronger than Kratos, and until recently arguably as fast. (Faster until GoW3 came out, but meh.) The strength gap isn't what it used to be, however.

So what do you think about moves like Scary Face, Paste? Should they be allowed to work? We could do math!

I do enjoy math. mmm

I'm actually unsure to what degree which status effects would impact Kratos.

I know what you mean. I want to say just to calc it as the percentage in game for simplicity's sake. But that opens the way to use Pokemon stats as representations of ability, and that's a messy can of worms. It also just plain isn't fair, and puts stats on characters that don't belong in that system.

But then if you count it based solely on move descriptions, it won't work. Kratos won't get slower 'cause Machamp looked at him funny. But at the same time, it is an ability and seems wrong to deny it to the Pokemon.

Yeah, it's one of those Unknowables (tm)

Machamp is stronger based on what? Pokedex descriptions? Because I haven't seen many Machamp feats that put him anywhere near Kratos' level.

He should literally be pulping other poke'mon if he's that strong.

Originally posted by KingD19
Machamp is stronger based on what? Pokedex descriptions? Because I haven't seen many Machamp feats that put him anywhere near Kratos' level.

He should literally be pulping other poke'mon if he's that strong. Other pokemon have even more ****ed up feats than Machamp, who can move a mountain with one hand, and has four.

Indeed. I read recently that one theory for the existence of Pokemon is that they're all energy beings or something. And other much crazier theories exist, like Slowpoke being omniscient. Yet they all make a lot of sense.

If any of them are true, that's even more reason to think carefully about this.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p757/Scenario388/Other%20evidence/happinyusedstrength_zps5b67b05d.gif

Happiny- Base Attack stat 5

Machamp- Base Attack stat 130

Kratos

Aha, Brock's Happiny. So damn awesome.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Machamp is stronger than Kratos It isn't.

Kratos cuts Machamp's head off. None of that "fainting" bullshit here.

I'd like to see a strength feat above palming mountains from Kratos.

Pushing apart the fingers of a guy who carried a mountain on his back.

Or overpowering a guy who held the entire Earth/Heavens on his shoulders.

And as I've said, while the pokedex says what it says, it's descriptions change per game and do we have any actual screen feats of Machamp pulling this off?

That one's been debunked forever if you're referring to Atlas attempting to 'crush' Kratos.

Canon statement is enough.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'd like to see a strength feat above palming mountains from Kratos. Define "mountain", first of all.

Mount Wycheproof is only 43 meters tall. So please, quantify Machamp's strength based solely on the word "mountain" for me.

Was able to hold his ground and not be overpowered by (As well as tank) an explosion that destroyed a pillar that held up the crust of the planet (Its destruction is the reason Atlas had to bear the burden).

Also, you've never debunked Atlas.

Nor addressed that Kratos overpowered an arm of Atlas in Chains of Olympus.

Kratos slices off Machamps head and brings it to his master Nemebro

Originally posted by NemeBro
Define "mountain", first of all.

Mount Wycheproof is only 43 meters tall. So please, quantify Machamp's strength based solely on the word "mountain" for me.

Was able to hold his ground and not be overpowered by (As well as tank) an explosion that destroyed a pillar that held up the crust of the planet (Its destruction is the reason Atlas had to bear the burden).

Also, you've never debunked Atlas.

Nor addressed that Kratos overpowered an arm of Atlas in Chains of Olympus.
Lowball harder, using the smallest mountain in the world, which still has a town on it, by the way, does nothing except damage your own credibility. Besides which point no mountain that small has yet been seen in pokeymans.

Atlas was not trying to crush Kratos in GoW2, this has always been the case.

Show me the scene from CoO.

Machamp dies end of story Nemebro raises Machamps head in victory cause Kratos would but**** Machamp. Oh so that we all know I'm not trolling I'm being serious right now.

You seem upset. Can I help you?

Not upset just legit

Kratos stomps

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
That one's been debunked forever if you're referring to Atlas attempting to 'crush' Kratos.

Canon statement is enough.

He held his own against Hercules, who did the same thing as Atlas.

GoW Herc did what? O.o

Originally posted by BloodRain
GoW Herc did what? O.o

Her performed the 12 Labors of Hercules in GoW. And they're the same as in mythology.

The 11th Labor was to fetch the Apples of Hesperides which were guarded by a dragon and Atlas' daughters. Hercules held up the world/heavens while he got Atlas to get the apples for him.

Originally posted by KingD19
Her performed the 12 Labors of Hercules in GoW. And they're the same as in mythology.

The 11th Labor was to fetch the Apples of Hesperides which were guarded by a dragon and Atlas' daughters. Hercules held up the world/heavens while he got Atlas to get the apples for him. The basis for this one is a liiiittle shaky, since GoW diverges pretty strongly from actual Greek myth and the only thing pointing to Herc doing this is the implication he did the labours, Atlas nor Herc ever mentions it.

I'm not outright condemning it, I'm just saying it's shaky.

Pretty much. The labour was the get the apple, so maybe he did just that.

GoW Atlas could not move since his incarceration, so that couldn't have happened.

Originally posted by The Scenario
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p757/Scenario388/Other%20evidence/happinyusedstrength_zps5b67b05d.gif

Happiny- Base Attack stat 5

Machamp- Base Attack stat 130 Screampaste told me the show is non canon

Originally posted by I am Vegeta
Screampaste told me the show is non canon

Non-canon to the games.

But we're not exactly in Games Vs. here.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The basis for this one is a liiiittle shaky, since GoW diverges pretty strongly from actual Greek myth and the only thing pointing to Herc doing this is the implication he did the labours, Atlas nor Herc ever mentions it.

I'm not outright condemning it, I'm just saying it's shaky.

It does diverge, but unless shown or stated otherwise, we assume events unfolded the same way in GoW as they did in the actual myths.

Hercules having to lift shit for a while is brought up in secondary canon, but there it's mentioned that he lifted the sky. srug

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Lowball harder, using the smallest mountain in the world, which still has a town on it, by the way, does nothing except damage your own credibility. Besides which point no mountain that small has yet been seen in pokeymans.

Provide a number. Seriously, prove exactly how strong that statement in the Pokedex makes Machamp.

Were this Machamp versus, oh, I dunno, Dante, or some other douchebag, I would nod and say "sure, he's stronger", but he is fighting someone with strength feats in the island+ range of weight. Machamp doesn't have enough backing to make him stronger than Kratos.



Prove this statement.



_XH9bwo-S2o

About two minutes in.

The second chain Kratos throws on Atlas actually forces Atlas' hand to the bottom of the world.

Also:

8UzOBzoAGQI

35 seconds in or so, Kratos is punched by Atlas. He recovers instantly, and is none the worse for wear.

Frankly, you have no legitimate argument. We already know for a fact that Hades can restrain and ensnare Hades with his soul chains. We've seen him do it. Kratos resisted and overpowered Hades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrCPUx_Ae9s&t=4m40s

At no point did Atlas use the full strength of two of his fingers on Kratos.

He's actively questioning Kratos the entire time he's between his fingers.

As for that video, that's the stupidest thing I've seen in GoW so far haermm I'm supposed to believe a guy that can hold up part of Greece can't pull those chains out of three feet of rock? Kratos threw them hard enough to stick in stone, and they are huge, impressive chains, but there has to be more context. Are they magical super awesome chains/rock? I haven't paid attention to the portable GoW games, but I feel like I'm missing something important here.

In GoW 2 Kratos could barely keep apart Atlas' fine grip strength, lol. Also, no, he was not punched by Atlas, watch again, he's intercepted by Persephone.

It's also pretty clear during another cutscene where Kratos barely dodges Atlas' descending fist that it would have been bad, bad times for him.

Finally, the only time I can recall Hades looking good strengthwise when compared to Atlas was when he had magic hooks in him and Poseidon was blasting him with lightning at the same time. Atlas barely resisted.

MACHAMP used SCARY FACE

It doesn't affect enemy KRATOS

Enemy KRATOS used RAGE FACE

MACHAMP's everything sharply fell!

MACHAMP soiled itself!

Originally posted by XanatosForever
MACHAMP used SCARY FACE

It doesn't affect enemy KRATOS

Enemy KRATOS used RAGE FACE

MACHAMP's everything sharply fell!

MACHAMP soiled itself!

Meaning he eased up while Kratos was desperately trying to plead his case and had already expended himself.

Here's what it said before that:

'The Ghost of Sparta knew his own fighting prowess. He also knew that luck had aided him in chaining Atlas.'
"I will make you suffer, Kratos."
"Atlas! You must trust me. Much has passed since last we met."
Kratos groaned as Atlas reached up with a hand large enough and strong enough to balance the world itself to crush him. He was caught between thumb and forefinger.

"Why would I ever trust a servant of Zeus?"
"Because I seek to destroy Zeus." Kratos grated out the words.
'His breath gusted from his lungs under the tremendous pressure of Atlas' fingers closing. It took all of his own effort to force his hands into the thumb and finger to keep apart the deadly vise. Despite his own superhuman strength, he was as weak as a mewling baby in the Titan's grip.'

Kratos strength at his max effort was described as;
'As weak as a mewling baby in the Titan's grip.'

Considering that's a relative description, that's mighty impressive.

The part you posted came after this:

'The effort of holding apart the Titan's digits sapped his strength.'

"I will make you suffer"

Then does so whilst probing for answers. Isn't that what this side has been arguing for?

Originally posted by XanatosForever
MACHAMP used SCARY FACE

It doesn't affect enemy KRATOS

Enemy KRATOS used RAGE FACE

MACHAMP's everything sharply fell!

MACHAMP soiled itself!


Machamp used DynamicPunch!

Kratos became confused!

Kratos is confused!

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p757/Scenario388/Other%20evidence/Kratosrealeaseshope_zpsc9b85110.gif

It hurt itself in confusion!

haermm Well played, sir.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I do enjoy math. mmm

I'm actually unsure to what degree which status effects would impact Kratos.

Kratos is Canonically as Strong as Hercules.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrCPUx_Ae9s&t=4m40s

At no point did Atlas use the full strength of two of his fingers on Kratos.

He's actively questioning Kratos the entire time he's between his fingers.

So can you prove he didn't use the full-strength of his fingers?



You are not. Kratos restrained one of Atlas' arms. Deal with it, my son.



True on the interception, but speculation on the first.



Are you implying that I think Kratos can withstand all of Atlas' attacks without any injury?

Because I never said that.



There was also the time he pulled a Titan off of Mount Olympus without much effort and without being at full size. He also just straight up overpowered Cronos in his entirety.

As for his "magic hooks", considering Kratos overpowered Hades who was using the same magic hooks, I fail to see the relevance.

You'd know all of this if you played the game. You didn't, yet you make sweeping statements concerning it anyway.

Kratos easily kills Machamp with a single attack.

Neme, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hades school Atlas before even using the soul steal? He just used the chains and pure strength before that.

ya

Machamp can at least send a train flying with a single punch according. Then you'll get Nemebro saying "how long of a train? how long of a flight?"

If we see the pokedex, Machamp can move "mountains", if Nemebro is going to read that as "it can be a tiny mountain shy mountain", it can also be read as "several mountains at once". I mean, why not? Its not as if it was still carrying mountains with a single arm, and throw 1000 punches in two seconds. And it can move before he even thinks too (Nemebro here jumps in saying "how fast does a Machamp think? For all we know it's nothing). Machamp knows all the martial arts in the world (Nemebro: how many martial arts are there in the pokemon world). Etc.

And that ignoring some of the inane "replies" that have been stated already.

Is this discussion even worth having?

None of these discussions are really worth having. Just look at the topics.

But we generally enjoy them.

Originally posted by Bentley
Machamp can at least send a train flying with a single punch according. Then you'll get Nemebro saying "how long of a train? how long of a flight?"

Haha, look at this butthurt coward.

Neither of those questions are illogical or invalid. Also, neither put Machamp on the level of Kratos, but that is beside the point.



You are exactly correct, which only illustrates the fact that the feat is vague and impossible to quantify.



*It's



The ability to throw 1,000 punches in two seconds equates to it being more or less mach 1-2. Which is thousands of times slower than Kratos' reaction-time, and unlike Machamp, whose punches are too fast for it to control, Kratos has no such limits.



It's a shame that it can only move at mach 1.5, meaning that Machamp does indeed move slower than Kratos.



I have no issue with the statement on Machamp's skill.



I have dissected your feeble rant until it convulsed in pleasure.

Begone foul beast.

Machamp would put up an excellent fight but I would see kratos winning.

The **** is this?

You must be deaf or something.
Do you have any idea how badly you just hurt your own argument? With nothing to rationalize the scene this turns from a high showing for Kratos to an extraordinarily low one for Atlas, who for some reason can't break the chains which you're telling me aren't special magical awesome chains, and are only sticking three feet deep into rock. He can't loose them? He can't break them? He's not strong enough to stop a fairly heavy chain thrown at him by someone who is explicitly as weak as a baby next to him by comparison?

The only speculation involved is that Atlas might've been trying to crush Kratos, which he was not, and no one has ever proved he was.

The chains were forged by Haphaestus as part of Zeus' plans to keep the titans bound to Tartarus. Persephone freed Atlas from the chains and Kratos rebound him.

Besides, it takes some level of logic suspension to assume they were anything other than special in the first place, since this dude can hold up the planet. Also, Kratos launched those chains into the crust using Zeus' gauntlet.

And wtf kind of circular argument is saying "Atlas wasn't trying to crush Kratos, because he wasn't".

Yes. Atlas was trying to crush Kratos. What was he trying to do when he was pushing his fingers together? Massage Kratos' shoulders? It has been said so for years now, in the official strategy guide:

"The mighty Atlas does not take kindly to Kratos' meddling and attempts to crush him between his stony fingers. To keep them seperated, you must quickly alternate tapping L1 and R1. This happens twice before Atlas changes his mind and spares Kratos' life, offering him the last of his magic in order for the Spartan Warrior to defeat Zeus" Pg. 232 of the Collection strategy guide.

So there you have it. Kratos pushed back Atlas twice. And Atlas didn't try to crush Kratos a third time because he changed his mind about trying to crush him.

Anyway, being called a baby in comparison to Atlas is great. If a baby was small enough for me to even try to crush with just two fingers, yet kept the same strength of a normal sized baby, I would certainly expect its upper body strength to be enough to not be immediately crushed by my thumb + index finger strength.

Thank you, THIS is what I was looking for.


What the **** kind of circular reasoning is Atlas was trying to crush Kratos because he was? The first source you pulled for this cited Kratos as explicitly being comparable to an infant next to Atlas. haermm

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

What the **** kind of circular reasoning is Atlas was trying to crush Kratos because he was?

Because what the f*** else was he doing? Again, massaging his shoulders?



An infant is strong enough to push my finger and thumb back from crushing him. At least for awhile.

It is an impressive statement on Kratos' behalf, considering that book that BR cited says Atlas' lone hand was enough to balance the world if had to.

Either way, its impossible for it to be a lose situation on Kratos' behalf.

You've been retarded enough about this situation for years. Its sad that I even had to take the time to dig out an official statement on something that was obvious as all phuck.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Because what the f*** else was he doing? Again, massaging his shoulders?



An infant is strong enough to push my finger and thumb back from crushing him.

It is an impressive statement on Kratos' behalf, considering that first book that BR cited says Atlas' lone hand was enough to balance the world if had to.

Either way, its impossible for it to be a lose situation on Kratos' behalf.

You've been retarded enough about this situation for years. Its sad that I even had to take the time to dig out an official statement on something that was obvious as all phuck. Talking to him.

You have girl hands. uhuh

And no, the retarded assumption has always been that Atlas was trying to crush someone he was talking to. Who he agrees to assist.

Jesus Christ. There's no spinning the retardation spewing here. This shit is simple.

Watch the sequence of events again. The reason he's talking to him is because KRATOS was talking to him while successfully pushing his fingers back, ergo, keeping himself alive.

To paraphrase:

Atlas: "I will make you suffer"

*proceeds to try to crush Kratos*

Kratos: "Atlas you must trust me"

*proceeds to successfully push the fingers back*

Atlas: "Why should I do that?"

*proceeds to attempt to crush again*

Kratos: "I'm trying to kill Zeus."

*proceeds to successfully push his fingers back again*

Atlas relents and is curious enough to listen.

That's it.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Jesus Christ. There's no spinning the retardation spewing here. This shit is simple.

Watch the sequence of events again. The reason he's talking to him is because KRATOS was talking to him while successfully pushing his fingers back, ergo, keeping himself alive.

To paraphrase:

Atlas: "I will make you suffer"

*proceeds to try to crush Kratos*

Kratos: "Atlas you must trust me"

*proceeds to successfully push the fingers back*

Atlas: "Why should I do that?"

*proceeds to attempt to crush again*

Kratos: "I'm trying to kill Zeus."

*proceeds to successfully push his fingers back again*

Atlas relents and is curious enough to listen.

That's it. It really is simple, going by the scene itself, at no point is it apparent that Atlas is using anything more than fine grip strength. It took you years to pull of a quote to validate what had until just now been a poor assumption.

Frankly I'm back to thinking Kratos has dynamic strength if this is indeed canon.

At this point you're just arguing for the sake of your own salt.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/haermm.gif

A fine grip strength, as opposed to a really teeth clenching, sweat producing one? There's no such thing. You only have so much muscle in your thumb and forefinger. I can grip something with those digits as hard as I possibly can and still look completely casual, as if I'm not doing anything, because such a small group of muscle is not enough to remotely cause me to look like I need to gasp for breath.

Apparently it was a 'poor assumption' on my behalf when I was the one who was actually correct this whole time? Funny that.



You've tried too hard to suspend the simplest of conclusions on this. Occam's Razor told you all you needed to know.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/haermm.gif

A fine grip strength, as opposed to a really teeth clenching, sweat producing one? There's no such thing. You only have so much muscle in your thumb and forefinger. I can grip something with those digits as hard as I possibly can and still look completely casual, as if I'm not doing anything, because such a small group of muscle is not enough to remotely cause me to look like I need to gasp for breath.

Apparently it was a 'poor assumption' on my behalf when I was the one who was actually correct this whole time? Funny that.



You've tried too hard to suspend the simplest of conclusions on this. Occam's Razor told you all you needed to know. Occam's razor would never conclude that a man holding a small man between his thumb and finger and talking to him is trying to kill him.

And no, there is a functional difference between fine grip strength and actually trying to damage something, it's the difference between plucking a grape and folding a beer cap.

It took you this long to pull up that quote, and if you had not had it, that scene would have never convinced anyone objective that Kratos had overpowered Atlas thumb and forefinger.

Occam's Razor would conclude that a guy that's trying to take revenge on Kratos for his past trangressions against him, telling him that he will make him pay etc, is actually trying as best as he can with what he was doing.

No, you're bringing up incongruous actions and trying to make them equivalent for some reason. I'm taking about the comparison between holding a pencil with your thumb and finger (what Atlas used against Kratos) and then holding the pencil as hard as you can, also using your thumb and forefinger.

You can do the latter and not even look like you're trying to do anything out of the ordinary.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
it's the difference between plucking a grape and folding a beer cap.

Of course, you would know this. haermm

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Occam's Razor would conclude that a guy that's trying to take revenge on Kratos for his past trangressions against him, telling him that he will make him pay etc, is actually trying as best as he can with what he was doing.

No, you're bringing up incongruous actions and trying to make them equivalent for some reason. I'm taking about the comparison between holding a pencil with your thumb and finger (what Atlas used against Kratos) and then holding the pencil as hard as you can, also using your thumb and forefinger.

You can do the latter and not even look like you're trying to do anything out of the ordinary.
"Who breaks my chains?"

*Yoink*

Oh, look, it's this douche.

ATLASSSS, YOU MUST TRUST MEEEEEEEE

You're a douche, bro, why would I do that? You've been a dick ever since you started hanging out with Zeus.

BECAUSE I AM NOW A DOUCHE TO ZEUS!

Well, all right, go on then, little douchebro.

*assistance given*

^The abridged version.

Why would I believe that he was trying to kill Kratos? Seriously. Why would that scene have ever convinced anyone objective that was what was happening? I sure do like to kill my enemies by using two fingers. Right? This doesn't even make sense within the context of the universe where now Kratos is apparently strong enough to overpower Atlas whole arm by throwing a chain at him, and this occured in the past, and Atlas, knowing this, tries to kill him with two fingers.

Makes sense to m-No, it does not.

The only reason I'm accepting this is because you found a quote supporting it, and I'm reasonably sure it's canon. It's stupid, but hey. The scene itself though would never convince anyone reasonable.

As for the 'incongruous actions' thing, your example is basically the exact same as mine. You pluck a grape with two fingers, you hold a pencil with two fingers, you squeeze a beer cap with your thumb and finger, you squeeze a pencil the same way. There is a huge difference in the force used.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Of course, you would know this. haermm Beer cap folding is serious business. Thumb and one finger, and you must achieve it with visible ease, or drink at the kiddie table. uhuh

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

Why would I believe that he was trying to kill Kratos? Seriously. Why would that scene have ever convinced anyone objective that was what was happening? I sure do like to kill my enemies by using two fingers. Right? This doesn't even make sense within the context of the universe where now Kratos is apparently strong enough to overpower Atlas whole arm by throwing a chain at him, and this occured in the past, and Atlas, knowing this, tries to kill him with two fingers.

He didn't know who it was at first, so he grabbed the tiny being with two fingers. Upon realizing it was Kratos, he tried to crush him. No one ever said he used the full strength of his hand, apparently by his estimation his thumb and index was enough. It would have been, but with effort.

And I don't know what you're talking about with overpowering Atlas' arm. Like I said before, he used Zeus' gauntlet to punch the chain, that wasn't purely his own strength.



You pull on a grape to pluck it. That has little to do with the comparison other than having to grip it first. The point was simply that the analogy made no sense, hence I simplified it.

And exactly, squeezing a beer cap is easy enough. It takes no visible effort on my part to do so. And likewise even if I squeezed a pencil as hard as I could with thumb and forefinger, it would not look like I'm trying to do anything serious. There's only so much muscle I can summon, and therefore I can't look like I'm taxing myself in order to do anything.

It's simply hard to look strained when you're working with muscle groups that small.

The thing is until that quote popped up nothing ever suggested he was trying to beercap Kratos v.s. ... Grape him?

The fact he was talking to him the entire time, and that he didn't even know who was freeing him before, suggests that he was being graped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJd-LE0A_qk

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Beer cap folding is serious business. Thumb and one finger, and you must achieve it with visible ease, or drink at the kiddie table. uhuh

Besides the fact that I don't drink (sorry to disappoint, bro), I used to centerpunch beer bottle caps with a bow from 30 to 50 yards. Do I pass the audition? uhuh

Again, how could you have possibly known that when the point was that the max vs min effort has next to no actual visual differences there at all? We know by his reaction to Kratos that he was trying to get his revenge.


And again, we can say he was trying to grape him before he knew he was Kratos. When he knew it was Kratos, he tried to beer cap him. Before he knew it was Kratos he was casually surprised by the tiny being's strength, when he got a closer look and id'd him as Kratos he knew exactly what he was dealing with and then actually tried to crush him.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Besides the fact that I don't drink (sorry to disappoint, bro), I used to centerpunch beer bottle caps with a bow from 30 to 50 yards. Do I pass the audition? uhuh Kiddie table.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Again, how could you have possibly known that when the point was that the max vs min effort has next to no actual visual differences there at all? We know by his reaction to Kratos that he was trying to get his revenge.


And again, we can say he was trying to grape him before he knew he was Kratos. When he knew it was Kratos, he tried to beer cap him. Before he knew it was Kratos he was casually surprised by the tiny being's strength, when he got a closer look and id'd him as Kratos he knew exactly what he was dealing with and then actually tried to crush him.
If it has no visual differences at all why assume maximum?

We know by his reaction that Atlas was having a conversation with someone who freed him and ended up giving this guy his assistance.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Kiddie table.

"F**k yo couch, nigga!"

Also, no, because I'm not drinking, so .

Apple juice.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Apple juice.

Even worse. F**k yo juice! *slices juice in half (regardless of container)*

Originally posted by CosmicComet
And I don't know what you're talking about with overpowering Atlas' arm. Like I said before, he used Zeus' gauntlet to punch the chain, that wasn't purely his own strength.

You know, I'll admit, I haven't played Chains of Memories (Or rather I did on my hacked PSP, but it was glitched and I had to quit), so I did not know about nor did I notice Zeus' gauntlet. So a mistake on my part.

Not that it really matters. His feats against Hades and Poseidon are more than enough.

Originally posted by BloodRain
"I will make you suffer"

Then does so whilst probing for answers. Isn't that what this side has been arguing for?

Gonna bump this up. Seems relevant.

Look on the last page, its already been resolved by an official quote.

Atlas tried to crush him twice. Kratos successfully pushed his fingers back twice. Atlas' questioning came from Kratos talking to him and successfully pushing his fingers back, thus giving a reason for Atlas to listen and respond.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
"Who breaks my chains?"

*Yoink*

Oh, look, it's this douche.

ATLASSSS, YOU MUST TRUST MEEEEEEEE

You're a douche, bro, why would I do that? You've been a dick ever since you started hanging out with Zeus.

BECAUSE I AM NOW A DOUCHE TO ZEUS!

Well, all right, go on then, little douchebro.

*assistance given*

^The abridged version.

haermm *high fives ScreamPaste

That was your quote I quoted in my quote. Soo...