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Quick facts:-

Original Name: Tenebrae
Sith name: Lord Vitiate; Darth Vitiate
Father: Lord Dramath
Apprentices trained: Exal Kressh
Sith Masters: None

Accolades:-





Tenebrae became virtually immortal and acquired unprecedented power:-











Tenebrae siphoned energies from other individuals:





Tenebrae demonstrated Abeloth like abilities:



Tenebrae overshadowed millions of Sith Lords:

Tenebrae managed to control countless number of Sith Lords during his life including many dreaded Dark Councilors:







Tenebrae was the most feared Sith Lord in galactic history:

Combat prowess:-

Tenebrae feared nobody:



Tenebrae conquered an entire planet as a child:



How the conquest unfolded?

1. The battle to seize planet Mediraas began at the age of 6:



2. By the age of 10, Tenebrae terminated the ruler of Mediraas in single combat:



3. Tenebrae crushed rebellion by the age of 13 and gained absolute control of planet Mediraas:



Tenebrae impressed Marka Ragnos and was recognized as the legitimate ruler of Mediraas:



Tenebrae became such an overwhelming Force-user that he could single-handedly defeat legendary adversaries, formidable Jedi Strike Teams and Purge Sith Dark Councils:-

Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga easily overwhelmed:

"You stand there because I allow it. Because I do not fear." (Tenebrae to Jedi Strike Team)





First known Sith Dark Council Purged:



Second known Sith Dark Council Purged:



The mighty and legendary Revan humbled:







Revan's command of the Force was incredible by all accounts (he utterly destroyed a very powerful Dark Councilor in single combat to save his allies earlier; Scourge and Meetra) and he stood no chance against the might of Tenebrae; who would have utterly destroyed him, if T3-M4 had not interfered on time.

Telepathic capabilities:-

It is believed that mind tricks work on weak minds! Wrong! Tenebrae have broken (mentally dominated) many powerful individuals:

Lord Dramath (first known prominent victim):



Revan and Malak (Iconic Jedi heroes turned in to puppets):



Tenebrae broke and destroyed many Jedi with his telepathic powers:



Tenebrae could break even the strongest Jedi:



Tenebrae's telepathic capabilities had galactic reach:







Tenebrae was immune to side effects of heavy dark side practices:-



Heavy involvement in dark side practices can also prematurely accelerate aging in Force-users and reduce them to a mere shadow of their former-selves during their lives. Even powerful Sith Lords like Darth Bane suffered such deterioration:



However, Tenebrae possessed such power that he was immune to resultant deterioration from being heavily involved in dark side practices for long period. He remained at the top of the food chain of dark side practitioners for over 1300 years without issues and possessed the capability to last forever and change history.

REMINDER:



Tenebrae acquired Planetary-scale or mass destructive abilities?

Tenebrae, after his first transformation, possibly acquired the capability to devastate an entire planet with his Force abilities, should he desire.



Revan's assessment is supported by another revelation:

REMINDER:



Tenebrae planned and prepared to consume the entire galaxy and transform himself into an omnipotent godlike entity:

Don't forget this.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Vitiate/vitiate123_zps8fd59e10.png

Non-canon.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Don't forget this.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Vitiate/vitiate123_zps8fd59e10.png

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/Nicolas-Sarkozy-laughing.gif

That was pretty damn funny.

lmfao

I almost want to send him another email regarding his own book and if it counts that Revan is the ''heart of the Force'', if he indeed mastered both the light side and dark side, if he indeed is more powerful than Nihilus, etc., just so we can get it out of the way.

?v=FQRW0RM4V0k

Do you have any other questions I should ask him?

Come on guys, this is supposed to be a respect thread. If you're not going to respect the character, shove off.

no

>:[

Originally posted by Intrepid37


Do you have any other questions I should ask him?

"Did you know that there already exists a dark robed Sith emperor who manipulates events and people from behind the scenes and is obsessed with unlimited power?"

Or: "Did you watch any of the Star Wars movies?"

I might try and ask those in a more civil approach.

Fellow members,

This thread is not intended for spamming and non-canon information. It is intended for serious discussions and canonical representation of the character in question. Kindly respect the nature of this thread or refrain from commenting.

His life story is definitely more impressive then any other force user character. Even the ones are not as impressive as Vitiate. He is literally like a combination of Nihilus and Sidious who are the strongest 2 sith after Vitiate.
We don't know anything about his final death so I hope we hear more impressive achievements about him before his final death becomes canon.

the ones are more powerful than vitiate.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
the ones are more powerful than vitiate.
The Father, maybe. But The Son and The Daughter? I doubt this.

lol

Originally posted by Intrepid37
lol
Care to offer some explanation instead of throwing lols around?

If Anakin could force both The Son and The Daughter into submission; yeah, I don't think that highly of them after this.

Also, is it true that The Son unleashed Force lightning on Obi-Wan and the latter handled it?

Obi Wan was incapacitated instantly, and the Son most likely didn't want to kill him either. He's actually beaten all 3 of them (anakin, ahsoka, obi wan) in a span of 4 seconds. He was also a key component in defeating abeloth, and abeloth wasn't being somehow weakened like against Luke. prime condition abeloth>>>>>>Vitiate in terms of power. Some people say that he collapsed some mountain with force lightning, but I can't find it.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Obi Wan was incapacitated instantly, and the Son most likely didn't want to kill him either. He's actually beaten all 3 of them (anakin, ahsoka, obi wan) in a span of 4 seconds.
Vitiate can match all of these feats.

Vitiate stopped Revan's charge with just a single bolt; later on, incapacitated him with his FLS in extremely short duration (might have utterly destroyed him, if T3-M4 had not interfered). And I don't think that Revan needs introduction, right?

In addition, Vitiate can comfortably break Anakin, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan with his telepathic influence without even dueling them within a span of few seconds (the former 3 would be defenseless in this matter). Just a minor mental brush from Vitiate can reduce even a powerful Force-user to a trembling sycophant.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He was also a key component in defeating abeloth, and abeloth wasn't being somehow weakened like against Luke.
The Son came back?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
prime condition abeloth>>>>>>Vitiate in terms of power.
Bro,

I think you are possibly underestimating Vitiate a lot.

After second confrontation with Revan, Vitiate significantly expanded his personal powerbase and demonstrated Abeloth like capabilities by creating Voices and Children. He possessed the Voices himself and powered thousands of Children deployed in different parts of the galaxy. All of this was possible because he siphoned energies from large number of individuals by this time. Keep in mind that Vitiate had also granted liberty to his other minions to draw upon his power to fuel their own, if necessary, such as The Imperial Guard. This is why Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia asserts that Vitiate was continuously increasing in power with passage of time.

Problem with beings such as Abeloth and Vitiate is that you cannot use Midichlorian argument in their case. These beings use unnatural ways to function; they draw or siphon energies from other individuals; the more, the better.

Check the accolades section of this thread: The key term is "Force-user." Not Sith Lord.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Some people say that he collapsed some mountain with force lightning, but I can't find it.
I would appreciate evidence for this. Hearsay will not do.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The Father, maybe. But The Son and The Daughter? I doubt this.

It's straight up confirmed in the Mortis trilogy.

Originally posted by ares834
It's straight up confirmed in the Mortis trilogy.
The Sith argument isn't so black and white either. Dark side practitioners are not necessarily Sith. We have individuals such a Vitiate and Nihilus who eventually stepped outside the domain of Sith; Vitiate had gone so far to make preparations to consume the galaxy. Vitiate was using the identity of Sith to cover his true nature.

Problem with G-canon works is that such works assume Sith as mortals just like Jedi. Sidious is a mortal in G-canon works and therefore a valid comparison for revelations regarding Mortis.

Not sure what the "Sith argument" is... I was talking about this: "There, they discover three beings more powerful with the Force than any Jedi have seen before."

Simple solution: only Miralukan Jedi have fought the Emperor.

Also, reading through all these feats and items kind of shakes up the impression I had of Vitiate. That is disgusting levels of Force mastery.

Originally posted by ares834
Not sure what the "Sith argument" is... I was talking about this: "There, they discover three beings more powerful with the Force than any Jedi have seen before."
Thanks for this information.

I never doubted The Ones as possible "contenders" for the spotlight of most powerful beings in the mythos holistically. However, Star Wars: The Old Republic have introduced some contenders of its own with Vitiate and World Razer. Interesting, all of these are ancient beings.

But the Sith got way better in the future! Even though the showings of PT era Maul, Dooku and Sids don't hold a candle to Vitiate.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But the Sith got way better in the future! Even though the showings of PT era Maul, Dooku and Sids don't hold a candle to Vitiate.
Sith became (very) impressive during ancient times as well. It is just that Vitiate overshadowed them all.

After the demise of Vitiate's Sith Empire, Sith underwent serious decline. Then Bane came and uplifted the Sith once again.

Originally posted by ares834
Not sure what the "Sith argument" is... I was talking about this: "There, they discover three beings more powerful with the Force than any Jedi have seen before."



Damn formatting

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/G1d3on91/ LelandCheeconfirmsthemostpowerfulForceuser2_zps0ad
95481.png

The Son and Daughter (stupid, stupid names) are literal manifestations of the Force and, as such, are above even extraordinary Force users.



Your overuse of your new favorite adjective is disgusting.



I'd say so. Palpatine does in ~40 years what Vitiate couldn't in ~1400. excellent



lol

That picture doesn't work. Even when I fix the link its deleted.

I don't know why it's not. Photobucket never let me down before.

test?

Photobucket has failed me for the last time. Anyway, it was just a link to Chee confirming The Father as the most powerful Force user on his Twitter page. Think I linked it before.

Can I have some context to what Drew responded to? What ability? Also the Son and Daughter if they fought outside of Mortis according to the Father would have teared apart the very fabric of the Universe.

You are a worthy servant, Merchant. I am most pleased by your posts.

Mr. Chee didn't "confirm" anything; his statement is just his opinion. Unless his opinion is canonically validated, it is disputable. In-fact, the person who asked him the question about "most powerful Force-user," admitted that this is subjective topic and he wanted to know the opinion of Mr. Chee in this regard.

Also, this whole "Palpatine does in ~40 years what Vitiate couldn't in ~1400" mantra is biased and misleading. Circumstances surrounding both the Sith Lords are vastly different in the mythos. In-fact, Vitiate's interference in galactic affairs did eventually lead to destruction of the Jedi Order and Republic weakened to the point that it could be easily conquered. But Vitiate was not able to capitalize on these accomplishments because of influence of Revan.

But Leland Chee is the keeper of the holocron, IIRC 2nd only to Geuroge Lucas.

Originally posted by The Merchant
But Leland Chee is the keeper of the holocron, IIRC 2nd only to Geuroge Lucas.
I am not saying that his opinion should not be respected. I do believe that The Father is a contender for the spotlight of most powerful being in the mythos, only because of Mr. Chee's opinion.

However, what goes in the lore is typically reflective of more then opinion of just one individual.

Furthermore, George Lucas is no longer the boss of Star Wars related works.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Mr. Chee didn't "confirm" anything; his statement is just his opinion. Unless his opinion is canonically validated, it is disputable. In-fact, the person who asked him the question about "most powerful Force-user," admitted that this is subjective topic and he wanted to know the opinion of Mr. Chee in this regard.

Also, this whole "Palpatine does in ~40 years what Vitiate couldn't in ~1400" mantra is biased and misleading. Circumstances surrounding both the Sith Lords are vastly different in the mythos. In-fact, Vitiate's interference in galactic affairs did eventually lead to destruction of the Jedi Order and Republic weakened to the point that it could be easily conquered. But Vitiate was not able to capitalize on these accomplishments because of influence of Revan.
https://twitter.com/HolocronKeeper/status/352618406517809153
Looks like he did confirm it.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
https://twitter.com/HolocronKeeper/status/352618406517809153
Looks like he did confirm it.
He just mentioned a name. He didn't say that "canonically it is The Father."

Their is more evidence for Abeloth's superiority then that of The Father in existing canon content.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
https://twitter.com/HolocronKeeper/status/352618406517809153
Looks like he did confirm it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He just mentioned a name. He didn't say that "canonically it is The Father."


He mentioned a name is response of the question: who, to date, is the most powerful Force user?

This is basic English.

Legend has a point with the notion that there is more evidence that Abeloth could be more powerful.

Abeloth ****ing sucks though.


Not even generally sucks, in terms of combat ability she's utterly shit.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Legend has a point with the notion that there is more evidence that Abeloth could be more powerful.

No, he doesn't. Even in the Killik legend about Abeloth and Mortis, The Father drives Abeloth away.

She may be stronger than his children, but The Father is greater still.

Oh Temp, I thought the Children drove out Abeloth not the Father? nvm then

Nope.

Ok, so Full-potential Anakin > The Father, who > Abeloth, who's 12 times more powerful than Luke. Buuut, Full-potential Anakin only = 2x Sidious, therefore Sidious must be over 6 times as powerful as Luke?

Curse you math, what hath thou wrought!?

Sidious's potential can't be greater than Luke's.

What, really!???? Oh no, I was being totally serious, now you've ruined by calculations!

I was only further illustrating the complications to which you alluded.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not saying that his opinion should not be respected. I do believe that The Father is a contender for the spotlight of most powerful being in the mythos, only because of Mr. Chee's opinion.

However, what goes in the lore is typically reflective of more then opinion of just one individual.

Furthermore, George Lucas is no longer the boss of Star Wars related works.

Until Disney states otherwise Chee is the single highest authority in maintaining continuity and canon. As much as it may pain you Legend that is grossly above your own opinion in terms of authority on canon.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Until Disney states otherwise Chee is the single highest authority in maintaining continuity and canon. As much as it may pain you Legend that is grossly above your own opinion in terms of authority on canon.

You forgot to mention "non EU". Or did you miss Janus' arguments?

Uh, Chee's whole job is pretty much attempting to maintain EU continuity.

Originally posted by psmith81992
You forgot to mention "non EU". Or did you miss Janus' arguments?

No one missed anything. Janus's arguments are all well and good but Chee's job is regulating continuity.

Which is something you used to grasp before you took it upon yourself to secure Vitiate's withered dick betwixt your cracked lips.

http://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/10633-Come-At-Me-Bro.jpg

Tempest is wicked mad because Vitiate's lore threatens Sids' lore. SO MAD BRO.

As for Chee, he lost any credibility when he dismissed EU out of hand, saying the "majority of fans don't care about it or follow it" and blatantly contradicted GL in saying there is one continuity. His "job" is apparently to apply troll logic and ignore EU with a strong movie bias because he feels only that mythos is worthy of consideration. GL gives EU far more respect comparatively.

I'd like someone to email Chee and ask him where he ranks Vitiate in terms of Force power, just to see him scramble to Google the character for a reply. The guy's apathetic to non-movie centric EU.

Also, Vitiates voice is way sexier than Sidious'. Guy who played Pinhead >>>> whoeverthe****.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Tempest is wicked mad because Vitiate's lore threatens Sids' lore. SO MAD BRO.

Bro, Vitiate's very existence is proof that Sidious's shadow is vast and inescapable. He's pretty much a complete imitation of Palpatine.

DEAL WITH IT, SON

As for for Chee, quit complaining that everyone loves Sidious and no one cares about Ragnos.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Bro, Vitiate's very existence is proof that Sidious's shadow is vast and inescapable. He's pretty much a complete imitation of Palpatine.

DEAL WITH IT, SON

As for for Chee, quit complaining that everyone loves Sidious and no one cares about Ragnos.

But... Ragnos has horns.

Also, I have not heard Vitiate's voice. I'm too busy being enraptured by the Sith Inquisitor's.

"I'm giddy with anticipation."

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The Father, maybe. But The Son and The Daughter? I doubt this.

http://0.tqn.com/h/humor/1/H/m/M/-/-/Wat.jpg

Vitiate is not god-level, lol. All these characters:
-The Ones (They don't just beat Vitiate, they completely trash him)
-Abeloth (Tendril spams him)
-Luke Skywalker (Most powerful Jedi in history)
-Palpatine (ROTS, ROTJ, & DE)
-Yoda (Yep, I said it)
-Darth Plagueis (Possibly?)
can beat him. And Caedus could come pretty close as well.

I don't know how you can consider Vitiate the strongest when Palpatine has so many accolades going for himself. Hate to ruin the threa-wait...no I would love too. So here is a link to the true Dark Lord of the Sith: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=587671

Good thing you can substantiate everything you just said instead of just making baseless claims.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Until Disney states otherwise Chee is the single highest authority in maintaining continuity and canon. As much as it may pain you Legend that is grossly above your own opinion in terms of authority on canon.
His responsibility is to maintain a database and ensure continuity in the lore. He doesn't get to decide power level of characters on his own.

I respect his opinion but it can be subjective just like those of other authors. For example: Luceno thinks that Plagueis would undermine Palpatine in a duel under fair circumstances. While possible, this is still an assumption on his part.

Also, ever heard of word "evidence"?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://0.tqn.com/h/humor/1/H/m/M/-/-/Wat.jpg

Vitiate is not god-level, lol. All these characters:
-The Ones
-Abeloth
-Luke Skywalker
-Palpatine (ROTS, ROTJ, & DE)
-Yoda (Yep, I said it)
-Darth Plagueis (Possibly?)
can beat him. And Caedus could come pretty close as well.

I don't know how you can consider Vitiate the strongest when Palpatine has so many accolades going for himself. Hate to ruin the threa-wait...no I would love too. So here is a link to the true Dark Lord of the Sith: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=587671
It is funny that you do not pay attention to canon information at hand and it is easy to cast aside your silly statements:

Over 300 years ago, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak stumbled upon long-hidden Sith Empire's capital of Dromund Kaas, and its ruler - a mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side.

The fact(s) that Vitiate overshadowed millions of Sith Lords and even kept the monstrosities such as Dread Masters subservient or loyal to him, should tell you something about him.

Also, this thread isn't about who is the strongest Sith Lord.

Finally, your list of potential superiors is laughable. The Father, Abeloth and Palpatine (DE) are the only Force-users in your list who are a match for Vitiate.

And yes, I am well-aware of all the hype surrounding Palpatine. Much of that hype stems from this character being a darling of G-canon lore. So it doesn't surprises me that Palpatine gets special treatment in EU content as well. Same is true for Yoda. Furthermore, Vitiate is a newcomer in the mythos so it remains to be seen how he will evaluated in the long run.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Good thing you can substantiate everything you just said instead of just making baseless claims.

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/d98/50f/ce5/resized/x-x-everywhere-meme-generator-fanboys-fanboys-everywhere-e8c38b.jpg

Abeloth and the Ones are obvious.
Luke, Yoda, & Plagueis are for further debates. (Don't want to turn this into a versus thread)
Sidious I supported with that link. (I assume your extreme obsession for Vitiate is so great you refuse to click the link.)

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/d98/50f/ce5/resized/x-x-everywhere-meme-generator-fanboys-fanboys-everywhere-e8c38b.jpg

Abeloth and the Ones are obvious.
Luke, Yoda, & Plagueis are for further debates. (Don't want to turn this into a versus thread)
Sidious I supported with that link. (I assume your extreme obsession for Vitiate is so great you refuse to click the link.)

Ironic that a fanboy is calling others a fanboy. When you say the equivalent of "sidious is #1 I don't need to make an argument if you disagree you're a fanboy of character X, Y, or Z", you've already lost credibility.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8qJjCyN40yE/TpL4_RS5zII/AAAAAAAAAjA/2rYyRj6zXUY/s1600/PalpatinePuzzled.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/74629/1404962-swfu_emperor_palpatine.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Erp-xTuWTvg/UDCqGB8f9mI/AAAAAAAAADU/kapv-Mt9QQY/s1600/palpatine.jpg

http://cdn-media.hollywood.com/images/l/Emperor-Palpatine.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md888pURhc1rkgyw3o3_1280.jpg

http://imgs.tuts.dragoart.com/how-to-draw-darth-sidious_1_000000006875_5.jpg

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/25300000/Darth-Sidious-darth-sidious-25370721-1600-1200.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/79836/1437775-darthsidiouswallpaper.jpg

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130204055528/s__/starwars/images/0/08/SidiousVsMaulSavage-TL.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/74798/1753462-star_wars_darth_sidious_rotflmfao.jpg

Seriously, how old are you?

Originally posted by psmith81992
When you say the equivalent of "sidious is #1 I don't need to make an argument if you disagree you're a fanboy of character X, Y, or Z", you've already lost credibility.





http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/1002/pwned-face-funny-soccer-pwned-owned-nub-noob-demotivational-poster-1266782365.jpg

As opposed to Sidious' purge is more effective (no argument in sight)? Owned indeed rofl

Originally posted by psmith81992
As opposed to Sidious' purge is more effective (no argument in sight)? Owned indeed rofl

Except for the argument between Janus and I listing cogent reasons for such an assumption. Feel free to pull your head from betwixt Revan's toned buttocks at any time, fanboi!

Concession accepted

Concession accepted

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8qJjCyN40yE/TpL4_RS5zII/AAAAAAAAAjA/2rYyRj6zXUY/s1600/PalpatinePuzzled.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/74629/1404962-swfu_emperor_palpatine.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Erp-xTuWTvg/UDCqGB8f9mI/AAAAAAAAADU/kapv-Mt9QQY/s1600/palpatine.jpg

http://cdn-media.hollywood.com/images/l/Emperor-Palpatine.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md888pURhc1rkgyw3o3_1280.jpg

http://imgs.tuts.dragoart.com/how-to-draw-darth-sidious_1_000000006875_5.jpg

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/25300000/Darth-Sidious-darth-sidious-25370721-1600-1200.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/79836/1437775-darthsidiouswallpaper.jpg

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130204055528/s__/starwars/images/0/08/SidiousVsMaulSavage-TL.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/74798/1753462-star_wars_darth_sidious_rotflmfao.jpg


That sixth image is creepy. I love it.

Has the topic creator made a Vitiate respect thread on CV?

He wrote an essay on him and posted it on the Swtor forums iirc.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He wrote an essay on him and posted it on the Swtor forums iirc.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=651536
This one?

Do you happen to know if he would make one on CV though?

No.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No. But that site has at least 10 times the character limit. It'd fit all the info in the first post.

Nobody cares about comicvine.

I am active on there now, actually. There's far more SW topics than expected.

Yoda would push Vitiate's shit in.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yoda would push Vitiate's shit in.

This made me lol.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This made me lol.
Butthurt, Yoda is.

Well, the innuendo was just hilarious.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Butthurt, Yoda is.
Will you make a Vitiate respect thread on comicvine?

Don't do it, LeGenD. the PT bias there is swelling far more than you can possibly imagine.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Don't do it, LeGenD. the PT bias there is swelling far more than you can possibly imagine.
But he did post on the swtor forums once.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Don't do it, LeGenD. the PT bias there is swelling far more than you can possibly imagine.

All the more reason. A warrior does not say "I shall seek glory in my training hall, where everyone is my friend", he says "I will donkey kick some dudes who are against me and thus win XP".

im talking about comicvine. Dooku>Vitiate and Ventress>Revan there.

................

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
im talking about comicvine. Dooku>Vitiate and Ventress>Revan there. Nothing that can't be corrected, right?

it would be impossibly difficult, against Silver and crew.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
it would be impossibly difficult It would only take a bit longer for the topic creator to change some.
The respect thread is fine though.

Why don't you just create the Respect thread if you want to so badly?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This made me lol.


One of my favorite innuendos

So my next stop should be comicvine?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
im talking about comicvine. Dooku>Vitiate and Ventress>Revan there.
What?

http://i.imgur.com/lggFiFc.gif

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1877074/ron-simmons-damn-o.gif

CV has no time limit on editing the original post, so his thread would always be up to date. It'd be more organized and he could relink it here.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
................

This is the only time I was ever speechless here, so suck it up folks.

The "damn" storyline was one of the funniest in WWE history.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Don't do it, LeGenD. the PT bias there is swelling far more than you can possibly imagine. All the more reason. A warrior does not say "I shall seek glory in my training hall, where everyone is my friend", he says "I will donkey kick some dudes who are against me and thus win XP". He might be able to reeducate them as he had reeducated some on the swtor forums.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
the ones are more powerful than vitiate.


Maybe more powerful in the force. The son would never be as cunning and manipulative as Vitiate. A mutiny against him by the dark council would finish him.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://0.tqn.com/h/humor/1/H/m/M/-/-/Wat.jpg

Vitiate is not god-level, lol. All these characters:
-The Ones (They don't just beat Vitiate, they completely trash him)
-Abeloth (Tendril spams him)
-Luke Skywalker (Most powerful Jedi in history)
-Palpatine (ROTS, ROTJ, & DE)
-Yoda (Yep, I said it)
-Darth Plagueis (Possibly?)
can beat him. And Caedus could come pretty close as well.

I don't know how you can consider Vitiate the strongest when Palpatine has so many accolades going for himself. Hate to ruin the threa-wait...no I would love too. So here is a link to the true Dark Lord of the Sith: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=587671


Same with Palpatine. He is incredibly powerful but any dark council would fry his ass. I don't see anyone capable of dominating such a powerful empire full of extremely powerful sith lords like Jadus and Malgus the way Vitiate did. Would you expect a council of 6-7 Vaders bowing down to Palpatine instead of killing him?
His place in EU just shadows every other sith.

Also Vitiate would kick both Yoda's and Plagueis' ass in 1on1.
Luke would be a challenge but I don't see any of Luke's abilities overwhelming Vitiate's original body. He wouldn't even have to fight him probably as he would have the chance to turn him to dark side like he did to Revan and Malak.

Originally posted by Sinious
Maybe more powerful in the force. The son would never be as cunning and manipulative as Vitiate. A mutiny against him by the dark council would finish him.

A mutiny by the dark council against the son would finish the latter? You must be joking.

Originally posted by Sinious
Same with Palpatine. He is incredibly powerful but any dark council would fry his ass.
Yeah, Palpatine with a prepped ritual would also decimate a dark council. Hell, with his skill and power, I can see him beating alot of them all at once in fair combat.

Originally posted by Sinious
I don't see anyone capable of dominating such a powerful empire full of extremely powerful sith lords like Jadus and Malgus the way Vitiate did.


Sidious is quite a bit more powerful than Jadus and Malgus bro. He could easily rule Vitiate's empire, in the sense of personal power.

Originally posted by Sinious
Would you expect a council of 6-7 Vaders bowing down to Palpatine instead of killing him?

Name one dark council member, sans maybe Nox, who is more powerful than Vader, and prove why.

Originally posted by Sinious
His place in EU just shadows every other sith.


In terms of accomplishments? Nah bro.

Originally posted by Sinious
Also Vitiate would kick both Yoda's and Plagueis' ass in 1on1.


Prove it.

Originally posted by Sinious
Luke would be a challenge but I don't see any of Luke's abilities overwhelming Vitiate's original body. He wouldn't even have to fight him probably as he would have the chance to turn him to dark side like he did to Revan and Malak.

I'm wondering if you actually think Revan and Malak at that point are even close to as powerful as Luke.

The son would be trouble to finish I accept but still possible cause he wasn't really that smart in CW. He had cool tricks but foreseeing stuff politically doesn't seem so likely for him. I mean c'mon he acted like he just hit puberty. So he wouldn't be prepared and a prepared dark council would take an unprepared son don't you think? It looks at least more likely for him to fall compared to Vitiate.

I don't believe there is a chance for Palpatine to survive as an Emperor for 1300 years in that era without even needing to communicate with his servants properly. He wasn't seen as a god like Vitiate in his rule. As Lord Scourge states:
"When I was born, the Emperor was the Empire. Everything existed to feed his whims. He was so far above us. No one, Sith or slave, would have dared even form an opinion about him."
This is what I mean by shadowing everyone else. The way he is respected by others in his era is so impressive and I don't see that with anyone else including Palpatine. Vitiate's ability to dominate people far from him in the galaxy and having voices representing him physically secured his original body which puts him in a higher position too since Palp was injured greatly the first time he revealed himself to the jedi as the Sith Lord and got killed by Vader which was pathetic no matter how hard it is to admit for me.

As there is no way of proving that he is stronger than Palpatine it's the same with Yoda so I can't show anything on this but his knowledge of the force is far more impressive as he can suck planets. I don't think we need evidence for Plagueis since he is in Revan's league no?

Revan and Malak weren't that weak when they faced the Emperor. He was the champion of the republic. Especially cause they were together it must have made it harder to crack their brains. Look how JK helps Kira to resist Vitiate's mind domination. So Luke alone facing Vitiate's original body is no so secure from the temptation of the dark side.

Originally posted by Sinious
The son would be trouble to finish I accept but still possible cause he wasn't really that smart in CW. He had cool tricks but foreseeing stuff politically doesn't seem so likely for him. I mean c'mon he acted like he just hit puberty. So he wouldn't be prepared and a prepared dark council would take an unprepared son don't you think? It looks at least more likely for him to fall compared to Vitiate.


Dude, the Son is literally a manifestation of the force itself. A dark council can't even begin to comprehend his power, much less combat and defeat him.

Originally posted by Sinious
I don't believe there is a chance for Palpatine to survive as an Emperor for 1300 years in that era without even needing to communicate with his servants properly. He wasn't seen as a god like Vitiate in his rule. As Lord Scourge states:
"When I was born, the Emperor was the Empire. Everything existed to feed his whims. He was so far above us. No one, Sith or slave, would have dared even form an opinion about him."

We're arguing personal, combative ability here right? Anyways, in terms of personal power, yes Vitiate was worshipped as a God among his people, but that was mainly due to his cunning (like leading them on a convoluted journey to Dromund Kaas), and his lack of connection with his empire (he really didnt care too much about it). But yes in terms of combative ability, it's way closer than you seem to think.

Originally posted by Sinious
As there is no way of proving that he is stronger than Palpatine it's the same with Yoda so I can't show anything on this but his knowledge of the force is far more impressive as he can suck planets. I don't think we need evidence for Plagueis since he is in Revan's league no?

He can suck planets with a ritual that required 8000 sith lords participating? Ok. Palpatine is also capable of draining and mind wiping on a planetary scale. Vitiate's never used drain in combat anyway. Plagueis is way above Revan imo.

Originally posted by Sinious
Revan and Malak weren't that weak when they faced the Emperor. He was the champion of the republic. Especially cause they were together it must have made it harder to crack their brains. Look how JK helps Kira to resist Vitiate's mind domination. So Luke alone facing Vitiate's original body is no so secure from the temptation of the dark side.

They were<<<<<<<Prime Luke at that point. Adding to that, they were unprepared, and the Emperor was fully prepared. Luke is too powerful to dominate, as was the HoT.

Well he is extremely powerful and 1 million years old if Im not wrong so Im not gonna argue but his teen attitude makes it so hard for me to respect him.

You cannot simply manipulate an empire full of sith lords with your character. It was obviously related to his extreme superiority in the force as well. It is close I agree but still Vitiate has the upper hand.

I meant his knowledge of power is way more impressive than Yoda. I don't think he has much on Palpatine even though I believe that he is just a bit better since he had more time to study the force.

I would say Plagueis is a better scholar but he is definitely not better then Revan as a warrior. What has he achieved that puts him so above Revan other than his discoveries on midi-chlorians?

Emperor was prepared because he had full control over his environment. Not because someone warned him am I wrong? So him being prepared actually supports the idea of how powerful he is. He literally cannot be surprised.

I'm just saying that he didn't even have to fight Revan and Malak to dominate their brains so maybe through combat and time Vitiate would break Luke's mental defenses enough to crush him and kill him if not to turn him to his slave. You can't deny that there is at least a possibility of that where Luke has no possibility to gain control over Vitiate at all. If he could break through Vitiate's force defenses and have a chance to fight him with sabers, he would win but I don't think he could.

HoT never fought Emperor's original body so that's irrelevant.

Originally posted by Sinious
Well he is extremely powerful and 1 million years old if Im not wrong so Im not gonna argue but his teen attitude makes it so hard for me to respect him.

Yeah I hate the Ones as well. However that doesn't change that they would annihilate any dark council.

Originally posted by Sinious
You cannot simply manipulate an empire full of sith lords with your character. It was obviously related to his extreme superiority in the force as well. It is close I agree but still Vitiate has the upper hand.

Oh of course part of it was due to his power, I was just saying that it shouldn't be what is fully credited. And palpatine does have a very large superiority in the force over anyone in the TOR Empire.

Originally posted by Sinious
I meant his knowledge of power is way more impressive than Yoda. I don't think he has much on Palpatine even though I believe that he is just a bit better since he had more time to study the force.

I would say Plagueis is a better scholar but he is definitely not better then Revan as a warrior. What has he achieved that puts him so above Revan other than his discoveries on midi-chlorians?

1. Neither really has a knowledge advantage over the other tbh. And even if Vitiate has that advantage, in combat he uses...mind rape, lightning, TK, and duplicates, with mind rape not working on the top tier people? He doesn't use a wide breadth of abilities in combat (like most force users).

2. Well let's see. Plagueis is one of the fastest force users in the mythos, and his speed feats speak for themselves. He's charred to ash/dust with lightning. He's atomized armored assassins with TK, while physically weakened to an insane extent. Both of these show his immense raw power, which imo exceeds Revan's. As a duelist, he's considered a master of the art, which shows me that he can match Revan in this regard. So basically, he's faster, greater raw power, arguably superior mastery, and physically stronger.

Originally posted by Sinious
Emperor was prepared because he had full control over his environment. Not because someone warned him am I wrong? So him being prepared actually supports the idea of how powerful he is. He literally cannot be surprised.

No, his honor guards told him way beforehand, and that's why Vitiate was fully prepped. On the contrary, in a fair versus battle, he isn't prepared to such an extent that he would dominate Luke's mind.

Originally posted by Sinious
I'm just saying that he didn't even have to fight Revan and Malak to dominate their brains so maybe through combat and time Vitiate would break Luke's mental defenses enough to crush him and kill him if not to turn him to his slave. You can't deny that there is at least a possibility of that where Luke has no possibility to gain control over Vitiate at all. If he could break through Vitiate's force defenses and have a chance to fight him with sabers, he would win but I don't think he could.

HoT never fought Emperor's original body so that's irrelevant.

1. Mentioned above.

2. The voice has the full power of the Emperor anyways, so that's irrelevant.

Hestizo Trace is the fastest Force user ever, just to clarify.

Well, didn't remember how Vitiate saw Revan coming with the details so yeah basically that doesn't count than.

Luke is likely to resist it but still would struggle and Vitiate mostly used enough power to gain physical control over his opponents like he did to Revan and HoT(first encounter). We don't know how powerful his force skills could be when he is fighting for his life. Also do you really think Luke would be able to dominate Revan the way Vitiate did when he faced the emperor for the second time? He would win but with a proper fight. Vitiate didn't even have to use his lightsaber. It simply doesn't make sense to say Luke would defeat Vitiate's original body.

Is it mentioned anywhere that the Voice has full power of Vitiate? Im not so sure because isn't that the only explanation of a young jedi killing a godlike sith emperor in his own temple? That he didn't fight his original body so it wasn't the same thing?

Vitiate's force skills when he was "fighting for his life" weren't a match for the HoT, I don't see how Luke would fare any worse, if not better. Some people argue Vitiate was weakened, some argue he had overcame his weakness, etc. Yes, Luke would be able to dominate Revan the way Vitiate did, especially considering he got knocked on his ass twice. Luke has proven to be as fast as Sidious, who in turn is quite a ways faster than Revan. Of course Vitiate didn't use his lightsaber, he'd be completely screwed if he had to resort to using it.

Yes Neph has a quote on that.

"For centuries, the Emperor's Voice has delivered the Sith leader's commandments to his servants. In fact, to converse with the Emperor's Voice is to have an audience with the Emperor himself, whose power and consciousness have been placed within the Voice's body."

SWTORE also says that the Voice 'wields the Emperor's incredible power'.

Well he wasn't fighting for his life cause he wasn't gonna die/loose his original body so it isn't the same thing at least physiologically but of course it was gonna wound his power so it was important I guess.

Yeah I think there is a theory that claims Vitiate was really weakened cause he spent a lot of energy on his ritual which doesn't sound so silly.

I think you are underestimating Revan a little. He is so dissed so much cause he got owned by Vitiate but like I said he is the only one who challenged Vitiate's original body on 1on1(almost) so it really makes sense to think that Vitiate's true body is more powerful then the voices. So I have to see the quote to believe it and even than it'll sound extremely stupid...

1. Well yeah, I dont see why Vitiate wouldn't fight to the best of his abilities against the Hero.

2. Meh, it evens out, with Vitiate recovering in one of the strongest nexuses ever and the Hero being weakened in said nexus, imo.

3. Nah. He just isn't much of a match for one as powerful as prime Luke. He's still very powerful of course. Yeah Neph just posted the quote.

lol. Hey Sin do u play SWTOR btw?

Originally posted by Nephthys
"For centuries, the Emperor's Voice has delivered the Sith leader's commandments to his servants. In fact, to converse with the Emperor's Voice is to have an audience with the Emperor himself, whose power and consciousness have been placed within the Voice's body."

SWTORE also says that the Voice 'wields the Emperor's incredible power'.

Just saw it after posting. Like I said it sounds extremely stupid to have HoT defeat him. A hero like Luke would have enough backstory and justification of his victory's logic to make it a proper victory against Vitiate but not the HoT. The hero simply doesn't match the villain.
Also because of the fact that this makes HoT much more powerful than Revan as well which is again silly.
I'll just ignore that quote

The reason I see Vitiate above Luke and especially HoT is that because his ritual of consuming the galaxy is simply more impressive than anything I've seen in SW Universe. It seems to me that someone who has enough power and knowledge of the force to be able to perform such a ritual would be able to defeat a single jedi even though its Skywalker. Its just a way perception.

JK fights a human does he not? Emperor is sith pureblood. I wish they made Emperor a 16-men ops boss

I used to play until 3 months ago and had a guild even. I had to stop cause I moved to another country and didn't bring my desktop with me.

That galaxy consuming ritual needs long preparation though, and Sidious was apparently going to do a similar ritual as well. Just because he can undergo such a ritual, doesn't make him some immovable combatant. You would also have to note that vitiate is more of a scholar, not a warrior like the HoT. the latter is more skilled. So ultimately, in a combat situation, Vitiate is not capable of defeating the likes of the HoT/Luke.

The Jedi Knight class is pretty much the Luke Skywalker of TOR. They are the ultimate champion of light. Bioware has pushed all the main characters of TOR as basically being among the best of all time in their respective classes. Theres no reason for me to think that its not plausible for the HoT to actually beat Vitiate.

Except the HoT is above Revan. :T

Does he fight a human? It could easily just be an extremely corrupted pureblood. The darkside makes a purebloods skin white and their eyes red, just like the guy the HoT fights. Karpyshan also says that the Emperor has little in common now what he once was (or something).


Anyway, at the end of the day, even if the HoT didn't beat Vitiate, they're going to in the end as per Scourges vision so whatever.

I don't think Sidious' version was that impressive and wide. Maybe something more similar to Vitiate's first ritual. Also quoting from Stealth Moose:
"Plagueyususis novel confirms that Sidious did not know Vitiate well and even implies he did not understand the nature of Vitiate's body hopping. Vitiate achieved what Sidious failed, which is physical longevity and effective immortality."

Still though the ritual is too big for him to be vulnerable to other individuals. He is not the dragon kidnapping the princess. He is the dragon that eats the galaxy. The knight shouldn't be able to slay him like that
I hope Vitiate hunts him before his spirit vanishes completely.

I think Scourge's vision was pretty much what JK did already.

Well, the JK story is kind of a generic hero, and the knight saving the kingdom from a dragon or evil emperor is very accurate.

well it was on a galaxy-wide scale, so...

Vitiate being a mystery to Sidious and Plagueis hardly makes him more powerful though. I believe the general consensus was that he used essence transfer (correct me if i'm wrong).

So, from the specific characters we just talked about, it's something like (combatively):

Luke>HoT>Vitiate>Revan

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Well, the JK story is kind of a generic hero, and the knight saving the kingdom from a dragon or evil emperor is very accurate.

Thats what Im saying. The dragon should be less powerful if they're gonna make a cheesy story like that. Besides whats the point of other classes' stories than? JK ending is so much bigger than every other class it doesn't even make sense.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/43369189.jpg

Originally posted by Sinious
I think Scourge's vision was pretty much what JK did already.

The JK hasn't had a chance to steal his power yet. Whatever that means.

"Jedi, shining with the Force, lined up to destroy him. All were swept aside. Revan and the Exile were cast at my feet. Then, out of the shadows, one Jedi emerged to cut the Emperor down. That Jedi wore your face.

In my vision, I bowed to you and took a crown from the Emperor's head. It ended when you held his power in your hands."


The Hero of Tython is going to be the next Sith Emperor.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ


Luke>HoT>Vitiate>Revan

I'll agree on this for now since Vitiate's story is probably not ended and more info of him is to come:

Luke>HoT
Luke(probably)>Vitiate
Vitiate-HoT not decided as they faced each other twice and the score is 1-1. Maybe it wasn't Vitiate's real body and they will face each other again? You can't say something specific about this as both characters are still not dead. Even HoT believed that he could still be alive.
All 3 would take Revan


Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/43369189.jpg

lololol he killed the father figure of my dreams...

Yeah about the HoT vs vitiate thing, i'm not gonna be too conclusive on it yet.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The JK hasn't had a chance to steal his power yet. Whatever that means.

"Jedi, shining with the Force, lined up to destroy him. All were swept aside. Revan and the Exile were cast at my feet. Then, out of the shadows, one Jedi emerged to cut the Emperor down. That Jedi wore your face.

In my vision, I bowed to you and took a crown from the Emperor's head. It ended when you held his power in your hands."


The Hero of Tython is going to be the next Sith Emperor.

Visions could be very symbolic I guess

visions aren't crystal clear, they're used as guidance. Ergo he probably won't steal vitiate's power. but if he did, oh could I imagine.

Man, if he did.... no amount of Yoda, Luke or Sidious quotes could convince me that the Hero of Tython wouldn't be the more powerful Jedi or Sith in Star Wars.


I'm pretty sure it means his power as Emperor. Scourge hands him Vitiates crown. I wasn't totally joking when I said the JK could become the next Emperor. My concept for a TOR-era novel even uses that scenario (HoT become Empress) as its backstory.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Man, if he did.... no amount of Yoda, Luke or Sidious quotes could convince me that the Hero of Tython wouldn't be the more powerful Jedi or Sith in Star Wars.


I'm pretty sure it means his power as Emperor. Scourge hands him Vitiates crown. I wasn't totally joking when I said the JK could become the next Emperor. My concept for a TOR-era novel even uses that scenario (HoT become Empress) as its backstory.

He resisted Vitiate's dark influence so he wouldn't fall to the dark side after.
Even though if he became the emperor he wouldn't have Vitiate's knowledge of the force since Vitiate spent 1300 years studying the force so it wouldn't mean him becoming the strongest ever.

The vision is very likely to be only symbolic.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Dude, the Son is literally a manifestation of the force itself. A dark council can't even begin to comprehend his power, much less combat and defeat him.
What do you mean by the manifestation of the Force itself?

Their is no such thing as a manifestation of the Force itself. The Ones were extraordinarily powerful Force-users.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
We're arguing personal, combative ability here right? Anyways, in terms of personal power, yes Vitiate was worshipped as a God among his people, but that was mainly due to his cunning (like leading them on a convoluted journey to Dromund Kaas), and his lack of connection with his empire (he really didnt care too much about it). But yes in terms of combative ability, it's way closer than you seem to think.
Vitiate's powers were also relevant;



Vitiate even kept the monstrosities such as Dread Masters subservient. A lone Dread Master was an extraordinarily powerful being.

Give Vitiate some credit.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He can suck planets with a ritual that required 8000 sith lords participating? Ok. Palpatine is also capable of draining and mind wiping on a planetary scale. Vitiate's never used drain in combat anyway. Plagueis is way above Revan imo.
Here;

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Tenebrae acquired Planetary-scale or mass destructive abilities?

Tenebrae, after his first transformation, possibly acquired the capability to devastate an entire planet with his Force abilities, should he desire.



Revan's assessment is supported by another revelation:

REMINDER:



Have you not paid attention to revelations in this thread?

Palpatine have not used Force Drain in combat situation either.

---

Also, Plagueis is way above Revan? You've got to be kidding me.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
They were<<<<<<<Prime Luke at that point. Adding to that, they were unprepared, and the Emperor was fully prepared. Luke is too powerful to dominate, as was the HoT.
Key word is duo.

Also, Vitiate broke the duo with a fraction of his power:



Preparation argument is from Revan himself who is likely to be biased about this.

And no, neither HoT and Luke are two powerful to be invincible to telepathic influence of masters of these powers. Vitiate broke HoT once and a Dark Jedi showed that it is possible to break Luke as well.

---

Why do I have to feed information in the mouths of people again and again? Damn.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah I hate the Ones as well. However that doesn't change that they would annihilate any dark council.
Debatable.

It is true that The Son overwhelmed the trio of Obi-Wan, Anakin and Ahsoka but even this trio is not even close to being as potent and dangerous as an entire Dark Council can be with combined might.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Oh of course part of it was due to his power, I was just saying that it shouldn't be what is fully credited. And palpatine does have a very large superiority in the force over anyone in the TOR Empire.
Black & White comparisons are always misleading.

While Palpatine might be superior to any TOR era Force-user in some aspects, he is outclassed in others.

Dread Masters have demonstrated capabilities that even Palpatine haven't. Dread Masters fell because they separated from each other after gaining independence to establish their own dominions and their potential adversaries multiplied from all fronts (Empire and Republic included).

In addition, their are some Dark Council members who qualified for "masters of the Force" accolade and were such formidable warriors that they could rout entire (well-armed) armies by themselves. Palpatine have never demonstrated this level of combative ability on the ground. Yes, during Dark Empire, Palpatine had acquired matching or superior capability, thanks to his command of powers such as Force Storm (Wormhole).

Still, the whole Dark Council is too overwhelming a force to challenge on the ground in conventional sense. To give you an idea, just 2 Jedi managed to undermine Palpatine (at the height of his power) in a direct confrontation. Palpatine's only chance is to summon a Force Storm (Wormhole), if he gets the opportunity. However, summoning a power of this caliber is not as easy and quick as people sometimes mistakenly assume. Palpatine is more likely to end up getting reduced to essence form in this kind of confrontation. And if somebody from the Dark Council knows how to contain an essence like a Jedi named Brand could, best of luck.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Neither really has a knowledge advantage over the other tbh. And even if Vitiate has that advantage, in combat he uses...mind rape, lightning, TK, and duplicates, with mind rape not working on the top tier people? He doesn't use a wide breadth of abilities in combat (like most force users).
Vitiate is likely to possess superior knowledge of dark side talents on the whole; he got close to acquiring omnipotence stage by the time of Great Galactic War but his ultimate ascension was compromised as his adversaries multiplied.

In addition, Vitiate did not relied upon a fixed set of powers to overwhelm his opponents. He decided his offensive options in accordance to what he was up against. He have unleashed different powers on different types of opposition.

Furthermore, Vitiate's telepathic powers, while not infallible, are a credible threat to anybody unless an individual have figured out a countermeasure. But this is circumstantial development since nobody have an answer for Vitiate's telepathic powers without experiencing it beforehand.

Vitiate's seemingly lack of effectiveness against HoT inside the Dark Temple, is the result of the setback that he suffered from his interruption from the most ambitious ritual that have ever been attempted. On the contrary, HoT had become immensely powerful and talented warrior at this point. You can do the math.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
2. Well let's see. Plagueis is one of the fastest force users in the mythos, and his speed feats speak for themselves.
So could be Revan. It is not possible to handle whole armies without being amazingly fast.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He's charred to ash/dust with lightning.
So can Dark Council members and possibly even Revan.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He's atomized armored assassins with TK, while physically weakened to an insane extent.
Correction: All but atomized. Also, body armor of those assassins was meh.

It remains to be seen what Revan can do with his unique telekinetic attacks to defenseless individuals! Possibly vaporize?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Both of these show his immense raw power, which imo exceeds Revan's.
How so?

Revan's utter domination of Nyriss > Plagueis's all but atomization of some defenseless individuals.

Nyriss reduced some defenseless individuals to charred smoking husks with a normal burst of her lightning. You realize what she could do to defenseless individuals with her fully charged attack?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
As a duelist, he's considered a master of the art, which shows me that he can match Revan in this regard. So basically, he's faster, greater raw power, arguably superior mastery, and physically stronger.
Covered above.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
No, his honor guards told him way beforehand, and that's why Vitiate was fully prepped.
Proved you wrong above.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
On the contrary, in a fair versus battle, he isn't prepared to such an extent that he would dominate Luke's mind.
Vitiate would easily accomplish this. A powerful Dark Jedi, with decent command of telepathic powers, was able to.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Mentioned above.

2. The voice has the full power of the Emperor anyways, so that's irrelevant.
Covered above.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vitiate's force skills when he was "fighting for his life" weren't a match for the HoT, I don't see how Luke would fare any worse, if not better. Some people argue Vitiate was weakened, some argue he had overcame his weakness, etc.
Explained already.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes, Luke would be able to dominate Revan the way Vitiate did, especially considering he got knocked on his ass twice. Luke has proven to be as fast as Sidious, who in turn is quite a ways faster than Revan. Of course Vitiate didn't use his lightsaber, he'd be completely screwed if he had to resort to using it.
Sheer underestimation of Revan has reached idiocy levels now. Revan have routed whole armies, brought Mandalorians to their knees when he was their enemy, brought both the Republic and the Jedi Order to their knees, when he was their enemy and left such an impact on Vitiate that the latter adopted Abeloth like tactic to increase his safeguard. It is rumored that Revan possessed sufficient power to dominate entire worlds. Respect him.

SW Legend I agree with everything you said. The only weakness that Vitiate shows is his defeat against HoT and that could be explained in many ways. He could very well be weakened by the ritual preparation. Both characters are still not dead so HoT's victory doesn't mean anything right now. There is no other proof of Vitiate being vulnerable to other jedis and siths. He could very well defeat Luke and HoT and certainly more powerful in the force. We don't know if he sucks at saber dueling too. You cannot manipulate the unknown aspects of Vitiate to your perception. His ritual is the most impressive maneuver in the force and it puts him above every force user in the sense of force knowledge.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Black & White comparisons are always misleading.

While Palpatine might be superior to any TOR era Force-user in some aspects, he is outclassed in others.

Dread Masters have demonstrated capabilities that even Palpatine haven't. Dread Masters fell because they separated from each other after gaining independence to establish their own dominions and their potential adversaries multiplied from all fronts (Empire and Republic included).

In addition, their are some Dark Council members who qualified for "masters of the Force" accolade and were such formidable warriors that they could rout entire (well-armed) armies by themselves. Palpatine have never demonstrated this level of combative ability on the ground. Yes, during Dark Empire, Palpatine had acquired matching or superior capability, thanks to his command of powers such as Force Storm (Wormhole).

Still, the whole Dark Council is too overwhelming a force to challenge on the ground in conventional sense. To give you an idea, just 2 Jedi managed to undermine Palpatine (at the height of his power) in a direct confrontation. Palpatine's only chance is to summon a Force Storm (Wormhole), if he gets the opportunity. However, summoning a power of this caliber is not as easy and quick as people sometimes mistakenly assume. Palpatine is more likely to end up getting reduced to essence form in this kind of confrontation. And if somebody from the Dark Council knows how to contain an essence like a Jedi named Brand could, best of luck.

Yeah, and Vitiate would also be outclassed in others, like shapeshifting and resurrecting (if that's considered canon).

The only dark council member that's routed armies was Marr. And Palpatine has annihilated very large forces of stormtroopers with a single gout of lightning.

Wasn't Leia unlocking Luke's latent potential with battle meditation? And doesn't Brand get help from a krapload of jedi as well to contain Palpatine's essence?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate is likely to possess superior knowledge of dark side talents on the whole; he got close to acquiring omnipotence stage by the time of Great Galactic War but his ultimate ascension was compromised as his adversaries multiplied.

In addition, Vitiate did not relied upon a fixed set of powers to overwhelm his opponents. He decided his offensive options in accordance to what he was up against. He have unleashed different powers on different types of opposition.

Furthermore, Vitiate's telepathic powers, while not infallible, are a credible threat to anybody unless an individual have figured out a countermeasure. But this is circumstantial development since nobody have an answer for Vitiate's telepathic powers without experiencing it beforehand.

Vitiate's seemingly lack of effectiveness against HoT inside the Dark Temple, is the result of the setback that he suffered from his interruption from the most ambitious ritual that have ever been attempted. On the contrary, HoT had become immensely powerful and talented warrior at this point. You can do the math.

1. Yoda has more light side knowledge, and Vitiate has more dark side knowledge. Even if Vitiate had slightly more knowledge, it wouldn't be relevant.

2. Lightning stream and lightning storm, yes. Along with some weird concentrated storm burst.

3. Yes but a powerful enough force user can resist it with no noticeable effort, aka the HoT.

4. Yeah, and the HoT would be weakened in such a powerful dark side nexus.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So could be Revan. It is not possible to handle whole armies without being amazingly fast.


So can Dark Council members and possibly even Revan.


Correction: All but atomized. Also, body armor of those assassins was meh.

It remains to be seen what Revan can do with his unique telekinetic attacks to defenseless individuals! Possibly vaporize?


How so?

Revan's utter domination of Nyriss > Plagueis's all but atomization of some defenseless individuals.

Nyriss reduced some defenseless individuals to charred smoking husks with a normal burst of her lightning. You realize what she could do to defenseless individuals with her fully charged attack?


Covered above.


Proved you wrong above.


Vitiate would easily accomplish this. A powerful Dark Jedi, with decent command of telepathic powers, was able to.


Covered above.

1: when has Revan routed armies solo?

2: Perhaps, but on the annihilation of the maladians thing, you have to take into account that he was on the brink of death itself and still managed to cause such destruction.

3: For now i'm not gonna put Revan's telekenetic abilities on Plagueis's level.

4: Ok yeah that was a really good display of tutaminis, but I doubt Nyriss is anywhere near as powerful as Plagueis.

5. Do u realize what Plagueis could do in a fully healed state with such TK?

6. ok.

7. No. That's just your biased assumption.

8. You're being impartial here. Wasn't that way before Luke's prime?

9. It evens out.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Explained already.


As I said, the Hero would also be weakened while Vitiate is recovering. It evens out.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sheer underestimation of Revan has reached idiocy levels now. Revan have routed whole armies, brought Mandalorians to their knees when he was their enemy, brought both the Republic and the Jedi Order to their knees, when he was their enemy and left such an impact on Vitiate that the latter adopted Abeloth like tactic to increase his safeguard. It is rumored that Revan possessed sufficient power to dominate entire worlds. Respect him.

when has he solo'd an army?

not relevant to personal power

not relevant to personal power

That hardly makes him as powerful as Luke, or even close really

ok. 13 year old vitiate has done this.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ


As I said, the Hero would also be weakened while Vitiate is recovering. It evens out.


Its not the same thing. Vitiate is consuming all a great part of his power and concentration to create the energy for the ritual.

Yes, but he's recovering in the dark temple, and Scourge even says that he'd recover quickly, and Vitiate himself says that the Hero would have dissipated his energy helping Kira.

Im not saying this for sure. Just saying that it is possible that Vitiate wasn't able to use all his power. Its a chance just like everything you're saying is only a chance. There is no way for you to prove that HoT and Vitiate had a full fair fight and HoT is a better warrior than him. Same applies to Luke.

1. Which is why I said I won't be conclusive on it.

2. How wouldn't the HoT and Luke be better warriors? First of all, it's specifically noted that Vitiate is a scholar, not a warrior, and the HoT is the greatest warrior in the entire jedi order of his time. The same can be said for Luke.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Which is why I said I won't be conclusive on it.

2. How wouldn't the HoT and Luke be better warriors? First of all, it's specifically noted that Vitiate is a scholar, not a warrior, and the HoT is the greatest warrior in the entire jedi order of his time. The same can be said for Luke.

He chooses to be a scholar. There is a big difference. After Revan confronts him he decides to remove his original body and use his voices to represent him because he doesn't want to risk his existence at all. His fear of death is so great that he also avoids risking his voices in battles. That is why he never acts as the proud warrior like Malgus. If he had wanted it he would go to Coruscant himself and suck the entire planet up. Same with Alderaan and many other planets his empire invaded. You make it sound like he is incapable being a warrior like HoT or Luke. Its simply not true.

lol @ Vitiate breaking through the core, waltzing to Alderaan, and sucking the planet up all by himself. Only Malgus can do that . Whether or not he chose to be a scholar is irrelevant, the HoT and Luke are both more skilled warriors on the whole. Tactically, both are obviously superior (vitiate almost got killed by Meetra and walked onto a lightsaber), and Luke actually has shatterpoint to capitalize on these tactical errors. Vitiate, overall, just doesn't catch me as the warrior type.

Vitiate ****ing sucks for everything he had at his disposal.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, and Vitiate would also be outclassed in others, like shapeshifting and resurrecting (if that's considered canon).
Much of the Vitiate's abilities are unknown at the moment. His story leaves enormous room for exploration of his abilities.

Interestingly, Dread Masters considered (only) him as worthy of their services. Most impressive.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The only dark council member that's routed armies was Marr. And Palpatine has annihilated very large forces of stormtroopers with a single gout of lightning.
Well, its an example of how good Dark Council members can be (Marr is extraordinarily powerful even by mythos standards).

Dark Council members are typically dominating figures on the ground. To give you an idea, Decimus, Nyriss and Thanaton also have impressive battlefield records.

Yes, Palpatine have that feat as well but he doesn't outshines a typical Dark Council member with this example.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Wasn't Leia unlocking Luke's latent potential with battle meditation?
She bolstered Luke with her and her unborn's power; the combined might of 3 Jedi was enough to undermine Palpatine.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And doesn't Brand get help from a krapload of jedi as well to contain Palpatine's essence?
Palpatine did face some opposition earlier in his physical form (last known clone) which was also compromised by decay and blaster-fire from Han Solo. However, when Palpatine reemerged as essence, Brand stopped Palpatine in this form (by himself) while being heavily injured from previous confrontation with Palpatine in the latter's physical form.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Yoda has more light side knowledge, and Vitiate has more dark side knowledge. Even if Vitiate had slightly more knowledge, it wouldn't be relevant.
This is another black & white reasoning which is misleading. Vitiate have more effective and dangerous offensive options at his disposal.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
2. Lightning stream and lightning storm, yes. Along with some weird concentrated storm burst.
This is what I recall:

First known battle: Telekinetic powers
Against Sith Lord Dramath: Sever Force application; Telepathic powers
Against Dark Council: Mysterious power
Against duo of Revan and Malak: Telepathic powers
Against Revan and T3-M4: Telekinetic powers; Telepathic powers; Sith lightning (normal and augmented)
Against Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga: Sith lightning (augmented variant); Force blast; Telepathic powers
Against Hero of Tython: Illusions; Sith lightning (normal); Telekinetic powers

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
3. Yes but a powerful enough force user can resist it with no noticeable effort, aka the HoT.
HoT likely developed some kind of countermeasure against it just like Revan did OR was shielded by Orgus Din (rumored).

Nobody is able to resist Vitiate's telepathic influence without experiencing it beforehand. The select few, who managed to, developed some kind of countermeasure against such influence.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
4. Yeah, and the HoT would be weakened in such a powerful dark side nexus.
HoT had experience with dark side beforehand and may have learned how to effectively cope with dark side nexuses. Revan and Meetra have comparable showings in this respect as well.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1: when has Revan routed armies solo?
Some hints:-

1. Sith commander on Star Forge reported to Malak at one point that Revan have destroyed an army of Star Forge battle droid(s).
2. "As a Jedi, Revan was a warrior who slaughtered armies. As a Sith, Revan was a teacher who trained a thousand dark apprentices." (Dzoun)

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
2: Perhaps, but on the annihilation of the maladians thing, you have to take into account that he was on the brink of death itself and still managed to cause such destruction.
Muun can biologically function even in dire situations, possibly even better then Zabrak.

In addition, Plagueis asserted that powers of Force-users do not diminish even during their vulnerable moments! Possibly his didn't.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
3: For now i'm not gonna put Revan's telekenetic abilities on Plagueis's level.
I wouldn't underestimate Revan's peak telekinetic potency.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
4: Ok yeah that was a really good display of tutaminis, but I doubt Nyriss is anywhere near as powerful as Plagueis.
Nyriss could be better then you imagine her to be. Fact is that her dark powers are just as potent as that of Plagueis.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
5. Do u realize what Plagueis could do in a fully healed state with such TK?
Covered above.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
6. ok.
Good

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
7. No. That's just your biased assumption.
No, genius:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, Vitiate broke the duo with a fraction of his power:



Preparation argument is from Revan himself who is likely to be biased about this.

Perhaps you should start paying attention to presented arguments at hand. In this manner, you can spare me the effort to give you reminders again and again.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
8. You're being impartial here. Wasn't that way before Luke's prime?
What is Luke's prime? Old age?

Luke had performed his famous blackhole feat earlier prior to this encounter. Do the math.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
9. It evens out.
See above

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
As I said, the Hero would also be weakened while Vitiate is recovering. It evens out.
See above

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
when has he solo'd an army?
See above

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
not relevant to personal power

not relevant to personal power
Revan had been so influential with combination of his personal power and tactical brilliance.

Revan was already the Jedi Order's most powerful champion during the Mandalorian Wars.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
That hardly makes him as powerful as Luke, or even close really
Well, you have no idea. No other Jedi forced Vitiate to increase his safeguard further.

Do you have a habit of underestimating Revan? I think so.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
ok. 13 year old vitiate has done this.
Says a lot about Vitiate's power.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes, but he's recovering in the dark temple, and Scourge even says that he'd recover quickly, and Vitiate himself says that the Hero would have dissipated his energy helping Kira.
1. Scourge's propaganda to try to prevent HoT from wasting time to save Kira.
2. Looks like Vitiate underestimated HoT.

Originally posted by Sinious
He chooses to be a scholar. There is a big difference. After Revan confronts him he decides to remove his original body and use his voices to represent him because he doesn't want to risk his existence at all. His fear of death is so great that he also avoids risking his voices in battles. That is why he never acts as the proud warrior like Malgus. If he had wanted it he would go to Coruscant himself and suck the entire planet up. Same with Alderaan and many other planets his empire invaded. You make it sound like he is incapable being a warrior like HoT or Luke. Its simply not true.
Nicely put.

Though Vitiate does not shy away from confrontation when the time comes. Even in his most vulnerable moment, he took chances against HoT.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
lol @ Vitiate breaking through the core, waltzing to Alderaan, and sucking the planet up all by himself. Only Malgus can do that . Whether or not he chose to be a scholar is irrelevant, the HoT and Luke are both more skilled warriors on the whole. Tactically, both are obviously superior (vitiate almost got killed by Meetra and walked onto a lightsaber), and Luke actually has shatterpoint to capitalize on these tactical errors. Vitiate, overall, just doesn't catch me as the warrior type.
Please stop with your sheer idiocy already.

1. Vitiate had already infiltrated the Republic and the Jedi Order with his personal powerbase. He could pull off Sacking of Coruscant or similar events with his personal powerbase but this would also expose his minions and power reach.

2. OP is correct: Vitiate is a scholar by choice. This have nothing to do with his power and warrior-ship.

3. If Vitiate wanted to, he could wipe out planets one after another but he chose not to because he didn't wanted his followers to learn about his true nature.

Very aptly put by canon sources:





4. Funny that Vitiate is recognized as a brilliant tactican in canon.

5. Luke have his share of failures and "oh shit moments" as well. Stop painting him as an unstoppable juggernaut. Almost anybody have.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And Palpatine has annihilated very large forces of stormtroopers with a single gout of lightning.

Wasn't Leia unlocking Luke's latent potential with battle meditation? And doesn't Brand get help from a krapload of jedi as well to contain Palpatine's essence?

"... I am being eaten alive by darkness! "

"You think you have won? If I am annihilated, my curse will be upon Skywalker blood forever!"

"Luke... Palpatine will die with me . He will never return."

"The Force... and all the Jedi who went before us... will make sure of that."
-Taken from Rage of the Emperor 2

It took Brand and all those Jedi spirits to contain him.