Kurse VS The Hulk

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Slowpoke
Who will win?

FrothByte
Comparing their respective fights against Thor as the measuring stick, I'd say Kurse wins.

Stealth Moose
Yeah, Kurse's raw physical strength is seemingly higher. Thor could go H2H with Hulk; with Kurse, he was woefully unable to do so. It was ridiculous.

Slowpoke
I remember Kruse also showed the ability to drain life force?

Stealth Moose
Something like that. It didn't appear to use such on Loki/Thor, who might be more resistant than Random Norse Mook, but it could leech/murder everyone else.

wallman77
Kurse was able to alter Mjolnir's path on multiple occassions in the film, which Hulk was unable to do when Thor threw it at him. Thor threw it at the hulk...hulk caught it and the force of the hammer pulled him off his feet. Kurse back handed it like an annoying fly.

FrothByte
Yeah. And we have to remember that the Hulk that fought Thor was already berserk enough that he couldn't differentiate friend from foe, meaning he was already pretty damn strong there.

Tzeentch._
Hulk. Kurse was a badass, but his greatest feat was beating up Thor, which isn't even a good ABC argument considering Thor's yet to show any manliness against Hulk himself.

Frankly, until I see Hulk got KTFO by someone (which I'm hoping does happen at some point), I'm not inclined to say that any of the Avengers could put him down. We've seen Thor's limits twice now. Hulk thus far has been annoyed/injured by stuff but otherwise has given zero ****s.

edit- Wait, didn't Blonskey nearly beat him to death in TIH? I can't remember.

wallman77
On a side note...the fight with kurse is a testament to Thor's durability if nothing else. He took a beating and was up and about at least 5 minutes later. He showed no signs of true damage besides those cuts on his face. Beast.he was fighting aether powered malekith id say about a couples hrs after like a champ. Buuuut annyyyways I'd say kurse over hulk.

wallman77
@Tzeentch true hulk is a tough bastard

A-bomb came clse but hulk got angry enough to overpower

FrothByte
If I remember TIH correct, Hulk beat Abom by going behind him and choking him. He was at an advantageous position and he made the best use of it. It doesn't necessarily mean he was stronger than Abom. But anyway, he got close to getting KO'd in that movie showing that it is possible.

FrothByte
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
considering Thor's yet to show any manliness against Hulk himself.



Huh? So Hulk is enraged to the point where he can't tell friend from foe which means he's very very strong already and Thor tries to take him on h2h, talking to him and not going all out, only using Mjolnir once to hit Hulk in their entire fight and never using his more exotic powers.

Hulk was unable to hit Thor unless it was via cheapshot or during times when Thor was off his feet.

How exactly did Thor not prove himself against Hulk?

Zack Fair
The Thor fighting Kurse was a lot more vicious than the one fighting Hulk, and he was basically getting curbstomped.

I'm not sure if Kurse wins, but he does have the better showing against Thor.

the ninjak
Kurse should take this. Power Gem turns an elf into that, hate to see what happens if Hulk or Thor use it.

Zack Fair
Wonder how many hundred tons is the boulder Kurse lifted and threw at Thor.

janus77
Hulk wins this. "The Kursed" was only enchanted against Asgardian weapons and magic, it couldn't even survive a pointy stick through the chest. Quite pathetic, durability wise.

Hulk's easily the tougher and, given that he grows far more powerful with stress and anger, he's going to quickly dominate "Kurse".

Also, Hulk was one-punching the big mecha-fish and easily survived the combined assault of something like 15-20 Chitauri ships, again showing outstanding durability above and beyond Thor et al.

The Hulk that fought Abomination in TIH was weakened to the point that Banner didn't even know if he could transform into Hulk ever again. And, more importantly, it was Hulk's blood that empowered Abomination so it's basically a fraction of Hulk's power, that Hulk was fighting against.

Zack Fair
SMH.

Slowpoke
Originally posted by janus77
Hulk wins this. "The Kursed" was only enchanted against Asgardian weapons and magic, it couldn't even survive a pointy stick through the chest. Quite pathetic, durability wise.

Hulk's easily the tougher and, given that he grows far more powerful with stress and anger, he's going to quickly dominate "Kurse".

Also, Hulk was one-punching the big mecha-fish and easily survived the combined assault of something like 15-20 Chitauri ships, again showing outstanding durability above and beyond Thor et al.

The Hulk that fought Abomination in TIH was weakened to the point that Banner didn't even know if he could transform into Hulk ever again. And, more importantly, it was Hulk's blood that empowered Abomination so it's basically a fraction of Hulk's power, that Hulk was fighting against.

Actually the Dark Elf Sword didn't seem to cause serious damage to him, it was the space twisting device that finished him.

janus77
Originally posted by Slowpoke
Actually the Dark Elf Sword didn't seem to cause serious damage to him, it was the space twisting device that finished him.
IIRC, it basically staggered him, the wormhole-grenade finished him off, it's true, but the sword stopped him.

Also, other than swatting Thor aside, "Kurse" wasn't doing that much, he was like an angry teenager kicking the shit out of the toddlers in the playground...

Silent Master
Kurse wins, he just has better combat feats.

Stealth Moose
Janus you're ignoring that the weapon is Svartalalf tech and as such is some of the most advanced stuff we see in the movies. Asgardians, technological peers of the dark elves, make spears that shoot energy beams and a hammer that can, in the hands of Thor, create shockwaves, absorb high amounts of kinetic and electrical/heat energy, and survive rapid entry/renentry into earth's atmosphere. In fact, I was kind of surprised at how Thor was basically commanding his hammer to go into space to meet up with him. That's a durable little weapon.

Point being that Kurse has some good durability. The enchanted asgardian prison guard sword failed to penetrate his shouler, possibly getting stuck on his armor. He backhands Mjolnir, which in itself is considerable; Mjolnir is strong enough to cause shockwaves on impact, makes paste out of most foes, and split the Destroyer handily enough in the first film. The implication is that either the condition of being Kursed or the armor makes him more durable than Thor. And Thor/Loki already no sell bullets and can withstand thrashings from Hulk without death/paralysis.

Also Blax, your love for Hulk blinds you. I realize a half naked white man is too much for you sometimes, but you must restrain yourself.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by janus77
IIRC, it basically staggered him, the wormhole-grenade finished him off, it's true, but the sword stopped him.

Also, other than swatting Thor aside, "Kurse" wasn't doing that much, he was like an angry teenager kicking the shit out of the toddlers in the playground...

He got stabbed through the chest and he immediately turned around and killed Loki.

Either he has a massive healing factor or his internal organs were burned away or something.

Besides, it's not like Hulk would fare any better.

Tzeentch._
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Also Blax, your love for Hulk blinds you. I realize a half naked white man is too much for you sometimes, but you must restrain yourself.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9dnyrdkL81rzjlc4o1_500.gif

XanatosForever
haermm That never gets old.

FrothByte
Originally posted by janus77
Hulk wins this. "The Kursed" was only enchanted against Asgardian weapons and magic, it couldn't even survive a pointy stick through the chest. Quite pathetic, durability wise.

Hulk's easily the tougher and, given that he grows far more powerful with stress and anger, he's going to quickly dominate "Kurse".

Also, Hulk was one-punching the big mecha-fish and easily survived the combined assault of something like 15-20 Chitauri ships, again showing outstanding durability above and beyond Thor et al.

The Hulk that fought Abomination in TIH was weakened to the point that Banner didn't even know if he could transform into Hulk ever again. And, more importantly, it was Hulk's blood that empowered Abomination so it's basically a fraction of Hulk's power, that Hulk was fighting against.

Where did it say that he was only enchanted against Asgardian weapons and magic? Considering that Thor and Loki seem bulletproof, I do think being enchanted against "asgardian weapons and magic" makes you extremely durable even against wordly weapons.

Plus as far as we saw in TIH and Avengers, Hulk does get stronger but he doesn't do it quickly. It takes him quite a while to move to a different level of strength, mostly we seldom see him change strength actually. So Hulk "quickly" growing stronger against Kurse has no actual proof.

the ninjak
Originally posted by janus77
Hulk wins this. "The Kursed" was only enchanted against Asgardian weapons and magic, it couldn't even survive a pointy stick through the chest. Quite pathetic, durability wise.

Hulk's easily the tougher and, given that he grows far more powerful with stress and anger, he's going to quickly dominate "Kurse".

Also, Hulk was one-punching the big mecha-fish and easily survived the combined assault of something like 15-20 Chitauri ships, again showing outstanding durability above and beyond Thor et al.

The Hulk that fought Abomination in TIH was weakened to the point that Banner didn't even know if he could transform into Hulk ever again. And, more importantly, it was Hulk's blood that empowered Abomination so it's basically a fraction of Hulk's power, that Hulk was fighting against.
No.

The whole argument of Kurse being immune to Asgardian Tech is stupid.

And your theories on TIH are guesswork at best.

Robtard
Hulk takes this. You Thor-anything fanboys are hilarious.

A bit of pointy metal wielded by Loki (who is ridiculously and hilariously weaker than Hulk) went right through Kurse, Hulk will literally tear him into pieces.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Robtard
Hulk takes this. You Thor-anything fanboys are hilarious.

A bit of pointy metal wielded by Loki (who is ridiculously and hilariously weaker than Hulk) went right through Kurse, Hulk will literally tear him into pieces.

I almost thought this was a Quanchi112 post. Don't scare me like that, Robtard. At least use some logic.

janus77
Originally posted by the ninjak
No.

The whole argument of Kurse being immune to Asgardian Tech is stupid.

And your theories on TIH are guesswork at best.
IIRC Malkeith states that "The Kursed" will be immune to Asgardian weapons and magic. Several times, at that. Stupid or not, that's what it was.

And wrong on the TIH point too, as it was Sterns' Hulkblood that Blonsky got shot up with, in order to become the powerful Abomination of the final confrontation.

That was also the reason why Banner was Banner at that point, the Hulk energies had been drained from him. When he jumped out of the heli-carrier, at that point they weren't sure that he would even be able to initiate a transformation. Whether there was any Hulk left in him or not.

So, no, not a theory, simply a good and close reading of what the film was saying.

A weakened Hulk fought an Abomination that was essentially just using his own power. And he eventually got angry enough to over power him, breaking his grip once Abomination threatened the safety of Betty.

Stealth Moose
Using Thor was a measurement:

Thor != Hulk. The hammer seems to be an equalizer, but really Thor wasn't outclassed in H2H either.

Thor < Kurse. Kurse did not care if Thor had his hammer or not. He just beat the stuffing out of him.

If that benchmark is fairly accurate, and I don't see any reason to second guess it based on context, Kurse < Hulk. Unless there's some very specific aspect of Hulk's power that fails against Thor but would obliterate Kurse.

DTM
Ill go with Kurse as well.

Robtard
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I almost thought this was a Quanchi112 post. Don't scare me like that, Robtard. At least use some logic.

Instead of mildly disguised jabs, why not attack my argument and point out the 'lack of logic'?

Cos last I checked, Loki easily stabbed through Kurse with a bit of elven scrap metal(or was it an elven sword?); Hulk is far more powerful than Loki and isn't Asgardian made smile

Mindset
Originally posted by Robtard
Instead of mildly disguised jabs, why not attack my argument and point out the 'lack of logic'?

Cos last I checked, Loki easily stabbed through Kurse with a bit of elven scrap metal(or was it an elven sword?); Hulk is far more powerful than Loki and isn't Asgardian made smile Thor hurt Hulk with Mjolnir.

Kurse was unaffected.

Kurse wins.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by janus77
IIRC Malkeith states that "The Kursed" will be immune to Asgardian weapons and magic. Several times, at that. Stupid or not, that's what it was.

I don't recall that happening at all.

Also, I don't understand why Loki being able to stab Kurse means anything in a fight with Hulk? Is Hulk going to get a Dark Elf blade and wield it against Kurse? No, he's going to hit and punch Kurse, and we saw how that worked out for Thor.

Also, Loki stabbed Kurse and it accomplished nothing at all. Abomination piercing Hulk not nearly as deep seemed to hurt him a lot more.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Robtard
Instead of mildly disguised jabs, why not attack my argument and point out the 'lack of logic'?

Cos last I checked, Loki easily stabbed through Kurse with a bit of elven scrap metal(or was it an elven sword?); Hulk is far more powerful than Loki and isn't Asgardian made smile

Look around, address the points already made by me and others. Then come back to me with this comment. Your blind assertions here have been addressed, whether or not that's acceptable to your worldview.

FrothByte
Originally posted by Robtard
Hulk takes this. You Thor-anything fanboys are hilarious.

A bit of pointy metal wielded by Loki (who is ridiculously and hilariously weaker than Hulk) went right through Kurse, Hulk will literally tear him into pieces.

A 12 yr old kid is hilariously weaker than me, that doesn't mean he doesn't have the strength to put a knife through my chest.

You can't claim that Hulk is immune to getting stabbed by magical asgardian/elven weapons simply because Hulk has never tried getting stabbed by one of them.

The only Asgardian weapon Hulk ever faced was Mjolnir, and Mjolnir hurt him far more than it hurt Kurse.

XanatosForever
...Mjolnir staggered Hulk by a sucker punch from Thor. He managed to get up just fine and keep after, and from what I remember, never really hesitated from a hit by it again the rest of their scuffle on the helicarrier. erm

Silent Master
Originally posted by XanatosForever
...Mjolnir staggered Hulk by a sucker punch from Thor. He managed to get up just fine and keep after, and from what I remember, never really hesitated from a hit by it again the rest of their scuffle on the helicarrier. erm

Thor never used Mjolnir to sucker punch the Hulk.

Zack Fair
LoL@sucker punching

These hulksters are hilarious.

Firefly218
After watching Thor i feel inclined to say Kurse, but we all know Hulk would kick his ass.

Robtard
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Look around, address the points already made by me and others. Then come back to me with this comment.

Your blind assertions here have been addressed, whether or not that's acceptable to your worldview.

Your points ignore that Kurse's powers are specifically designed to resist Asgardians/Asgard-tech; why he was able to easy tank blows from Thor(an Asgardian) and Mjolnir(Asgardian weapon), yet Loki (a Frost Giant) was able to easy pierce his armor and flesh with a bit of metal (non Asgardian gear).

Claiming my assertions are blind in order to ignore them is a silly tactic. Clearly they're not considering the above and what we saw in the film smile Unless you really want to claim Loki and pointy metal are just more powerful than Thor and Mjolnir?

Robtard
Originally posted by FrothByte
A 12 yr old kid is hilariously weaker than me, that doesn't mean he doesn't have the strength to put a knife through my chest.

You can't claim that Hulk is immune to getting stabbed by magical asgardian/elven weapons simply because Hulk has never tried getting stabbed by one of them.

The only Asgardian weapon Hulk ever faced was Mjolnir, and Mjolnir hurt him far more than it hurt Kurse.

Okay...

I didn't claim any such thing or like stance.

Because Kurse's powers are specifically designed to counter Asgardians/Tech. Why Loki was able to do more with some metal than Thor with Mjolnir.

the ninjak
Originally posted by Robtard
Your points ignore that Kurse's powers are specifically designed to resist Asgardians/Asgard-tech; why he was able to easy tank blows from Thor(an Asgardian) and Mjolnir(Asgardian weapon), yet Loki (a Frost Giant) was able to easy pierce his armor and flesh with a bit of metal (non Asgardian gear).

Claiming my assertions are blind in order to ignore them is a silly tactic. Clearly they're not considering the above and what we saw in the film smile Unless you really want to claim Loki and pointy metal are just more powerful than Thor and Mjolnir?

A good point.
What the hell did Loki stab Kurse with any ways?

Robtard
Originally posted by the ninjak
A good point.
What the hell did Loki stab Kurse with any ways?

One of the elven blades it seemed.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Robtard
Your points ignore that Kurse's powers are specifically designed to resist Asgardians/Asgard-tech; why he was able to easy tank blows from Thor(an Asgardian) and Mjolnir(Asgardian weapon), yet Loki (a Frost Giant) was able to easy pierce his armor and flesh with a bit of metal (non Asgardian gear).

Claiming my assertions are blind in order to ignore them is a silly tactic. Clearly they're not considering the above and what we saw in the film smile Unless you really want to claim Loki and pointy metal are just more powerful than Thor and Mjolnir?

Was it said that Kurse was specifically designed against Asgardians? If not, that's a pretty wild assumption. no expression

Loki stabbed Kurse from behind, using an Elven blade. Thor struck him with a hammer. Again, unless you think Hulk is going to get an elven stab Kurse with, I do not understand why this is relevant.

Besides, piercing damage =/= Blunt Force Damage. Not exactly rocket science.

Robtard
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Was it said that Kurse was specifically designed against Asgardians? If not, that's a pretty wild assumption. no expression

Loki stabbed Kurse from behind, using an Elven blade. Thor struck him with a hammer. Again, unless you think Hulk is going to get an elven stab Kurse with, I do not understand why this is relevant.

Besides, piercing damage =/= Blunt Force Damage. Not exactly rocket science.

The line went something like: "No power of our enemies (that would be the Asgardians) will stop you". Combine that with Kurse not being damaged at all my Thor and Mjolnir, it's clear.

So your argument is that a random elven blade from some foot soldier is more powerful than Mjolnir. Random Asgardian sword did nothing to him as well. It's clear his invulnerability hinges on the Asgardian factor. Hulk's power > Loki with a sharp weapon.

Ah, so now if Mjolnir was a spear, Thor would have been able to damage Kurse. Silly argument that ignores Kurse's specific power-set and why Loki a Frost Giant was able to damage him with a non Asgardian weapon while Thor the second most powerful Asgardian with the most powerful Asgardian weapon did nothing.

the ninjak
Your right. The Dark Elves no doubt focused their efforts into turning the artifact into a weapon to be used against the Asgardians.

Silly as it is.

Most fans who watch this film will take Kurse as just being an absolute beast who could take on most anyone. All needed for his downfall was an army of Asagardian guards using fallen Dark Elf weapons against him apparently.
Cheapened even further by those damn mini black hole void grenades.

janus77
Seriously, KMC's Thor-love is a bit sick-inducing but, how anyone saw "Kurse" (remember, these "Kurses" are bog standard Dark Elves amped on some lump of coal that they crush) as a "beast".

He clobbered a bunch of Asgardian hand ninja. Nothing impressive at all. Hell, even the Dark Elves, as weak as they are, were as equals to those no-marks.

Thor is the only Asgardian of any stature, Odin aside. And his main weapon was specifically countered by the Dark Elves' magic. So he had nothing to really attack Kurse with.

Kurse, the whole idea of "The Kursed" was one of several action/story elements that completely deflated the film for me.

Also, how did the first Kursed one die? IIRC, he exploded for some reason, no?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Robtard
The line went something like: "No power of our enemies (that would be the Asgardians) will stop you". Combine that with Kurse not being damaged at all my Thor and Mjolnir, it's clear.

So your argument is that a random elven blade from some foot soldier is more powerful than Mjolnir. Random Asgardian sword did nothing to him as well. It's clear his invulnerability hinges on the Asgardian factor. Hulk's power > Loki with a sharp weapon.

Ah, so now if Mjolnir was a spear, Thor would have been able to damage Kurse. Silly argument that ignores Kurse's specific power-set and why Loki a Frost Giant was able to damage him with a non Asgardian weapon while Thor the second most powerful Asgardian with the most powerful Asgardian weapon did nothing.

That's a reference to his power, not to some specific Asgardian invulnerability. I have seen and read every piece of info ever put out about this movie and not once was this idea even brought up.

Again, the Kursed were not immune to Asgardian weaponry. Just watch the opening sequence. They were however ridiculously powerful, and need to be cut down a great deal to be put down. Particularly Kurse.

No, my argument is that a random Elven blade is different from Mjolnir. Just like Loki being able to do more damage to Thor with one of his enchanted blades does not mean he is more powerful than the Hulk.

Yes, exactly that. Fyi, the soldier that struck Kurse, did so on the tip of his shoulder armor but still managed to find a foot hold. And Loki is far above a regular Asgardian.

FrothByte
Originally posted by Robtard
The line went something like: "No power of our enemies (that would be the Asgardians) will stop you". Combine that with Kurse not being damaged at all my Thor and Mjolnir, it's clear.

So your argument is that a random elven blade from some foot soldier is more powerful than Mjolnir. Random Asgardian sword did nothing to him as well. It's clear his invulnerability hinges on the Asgardian factor. Hulk's power > Loki with a sharp weapon.

Ah, so now if Mjolnir was a spear, Thor would have been able to damage Kurse. Silly argument that ignores Kurse's specific power-set and why Loki a Frost Giant was able to damage him with a non Asgardian weapon while Thor the second most powerful Asgardian with the most powerful Asgardian weapon did nothing.

You're jumping to conclusions. The line "No power of our enemies will stop you" is a vary vague statement. Just because "our enemy can't stop you" doesn't mean "you can be stopped by someone who is not our enemy". If I said something like "I've trained to fight my enemies" you can't automatically assume that I'm weak against non-enemies.

But if you want to tackle it from a different angle try this: Thor took Hulk's punch full to the face. All he got was a slightly bloody nose. No broken lip, no bruised face, no black eye. Yet Loki easily stabbed Thor with his knife. Stabbed him with little effort right through his armor. Would you therefore say that Loki's blades > Hulk's punch? A sharp weapon behaves differently from a blunt weapon. And these superheroes seem to display different durability depending on whether an attack is blunt, sharp, or explosive, etc.

So Loki stabbing Kurse is not a mere thing.

So unless Hulk somehow manages to get his hands on a magical elven blade, I don't see how he's winning this.

ares834
Originally posted by janus77
Also, how did the first Kursed one die? IIRC, he exploded for some reason, no?

He was stabbed by several swords and the some random Asgardian seemed to snap his neck.

janus77
IIRC "No Asgardian weapon can kill you" or words to that effect, were said by Malekeith, to The Kursed. This was during the first Bor-fight and again afterwards but before the attack on Asgard.

It was specifically "Asgard" that he mentioned.

I remember this because, at the time I made a mental note of the cliche and figured that it would end with Jane sticking a big-ass sword through Kurse and killing him (ofcourse, that wasn't how he died but it was a case of non-Asgardian weaponry doing the deed).

XanatosForever
Originally posted by Silent Master
Thor never used Mjolnir to sucker punch the Hulk.

Thor called Mjolnir to his hand and turned around to swing at Hulk. Hulk had no idea the weapon was in his grip. How is that not a sucker punch?

Silent Master
Because they were in the middle of a fight and the Hulk was the one charging at Thor.

Zack Fair
And Hulk was rushing towards him with the intent of beating the shit out of him. It was an all out fight by that point. Don't really see the sucker punch. If anything Hulk sucker punched Thor twice.

Silly hulksters.

FrothByte
Hulk sucker punched Thor twice. Hulk blind sided Loki once and then cheap shot him again. Thor did blindside Hulk with a tackle though.

lol at Thor sucker punching Hulk with mjolnir. That was as valid a blow as any. Heck, Thor was charging at Hulk when Hulk threw an airplane wing at him. That wasn't considered a sucker punch.

Zack Fair
thumb up True about the tackle. He was saving boobs though so all is forgiven.

ares834
What sucker punches did Hulk take? Are you talking about when he knocked Thor off screen after killing the Leviathan? And what is the other one?

XanatosForever
Maybe my head having trouble differentiating between terms, but Thor was unarmed one minute, and wielding a weapon next, and Hulk didn't see the weapon in his hand. Would it have made Hulk stop charging? Probably not, he is Hulk after all. It's a difference in expected retaliation, though.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by ares834
What sucker punches did Hulk take? Are you talking about when he knocked Thor off screen after killing the Leviathan? And what is the other one? When Thor was trying to reason with him in an attempt to calm him down and all he got for his efforts was a left hook.

ares834
Originally posted by Zack Fair
When Thor was trying to reason with him in attempt to calm him down and all he got for his efforts was a left hook.

erm

That wasn't a sucker punch any more than Thor hitting Hulk with his hammer. They were actively fighting at the time and Thor was using both arms to block Hulk's previous blow.

Zack Fair
I did say "if anything" when I first brought it up.

I take that one as more of a sucker punch than the hammer one tbh.

FrothByte
Originally posted by ares834
erm

That wasn't a sucker punch any more than Thor hitting Hulk with his hammer. They were actively fighting at the time and Thor was using both arms to block Hulk's previous blow.

Yes it was. Thor had already finished blocking Hulk's blow, now he was just holding on to Hulk's arm, not launching any offensive, and was trying to talk to him. Hulk punched him while he was in the middle of talking. That's a sucker punch.

When Thor hit Hulk with Mjolnir, Hulk was charging and attacking Thor.

Hitting someone while someone is talking to you is quite different from hitting someone when someone is attacking you

FrothByte
Originally posted by XanatosForever
Maybe my head having trouble differentiating between terms, but Thor was unarmed one minute, and wielding a weapon next, and Hulk didn't see the weapon in his hand. Would it have made Hulk stop charging? Probably not, he is Hulk after all. It's a difference in expected retaliation, though.

That's not considered a sucker punch though. Thor could have as easily delivered an uppercut with his fist, just now it added a lot of oomph. At most you could say that it surprised Hulk, the same way a knee to the groin would surprise you if you were expecting a right cross instead. It's about as equal as when Hulk threw that airplane wing at Thor.

ares834
Uh, my point was quite simple. Neither of those are sucker punches... At all.

The reason Thor wasn't launching an offensive was because he was unable to as he was using both arms to hold back Hulk. At the time though, they were still both fighting each other and Hulk was trying to crush Thor down with his right arm.

FrothByte
Originally posted by ares834
Uh, my point was quite simple. Neither of those are sucker punches... At all.

The reason Thor wasn't launching an offensive was because he was unable to as he was using both arms to hold back Hulk. At the time though, they were still both fighting each other and Hulk was trying to crush Thor down with his right arm.

You're not getting it are you? When someone is trying to talk to you and then you hit them, that's a sucker punch. When someone is attacking you and you hit them with a weapon, that's only considered a sucker punch when you're fighting with rules.

Thor wasn't launching an offensive because he was trying to talk Hulk down. If he wanted to he could have just dropped Hulk's arm to the side and dived to the other side to get him back in fighting form. Anyone with decent fighting skills could manage that move. Considering what we've seen Thor display, I have no doubt that he could have escaped from that position if he wanted to.

Zack Fair
thumb up

ares834
Originally posted by FrothByte
You're not getting it are you? When someone is trying to talk to you and then you hit them, that's a sucker punch. When someone is attacking you and you hit them with a weapon, that's only considered a sucker punch when you're fighting with rules.

Um, they were fighting when Hulk nailed Thor. Sure, Thor was also talking but that means jack shit as they were still fighting. As I've said before, Thor was physically struggling against Hulk when the punch came in. As usual the Thor-brigade continues to make bull shit excuses for their God of Thunder.

And once again, I've never claimed Thor using the hammer was a sucker punch...

Zack Fair
IMHO the fight was all from Hulk's end at that point. Later on Thor brought the fight when he had enough. Or more like there was not much desire to fight until then.

ares834
Nah, Thor was punching Hulk just before that. It just had almost no effect. Sure, when he summoned his hammer he turned up the dials but let's not pretend that Thor wasn't above attacking the Hulk before getting punched.

BlackZero30x
ok so I noticed people saying Loki stabbing Kruse makes him weaker then hulk which is possible but isn't it possible that the elven sword was just straight up sharp enough to stab through him?

I say Hulk wins but he would certainly have more trouble with Kruse then when he fought Thor.

Zack Fair
never said that.

It was obvious there was no much fight though. He punched him once and got Hulk to twirl like a ballerina. Then he blocked that 2nd blow and tried to reason and got a bloody nose for his effort.

IMHO it is the bigger sucker punch, but you don't see it that way so whatever.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Hulk was actively charging at Thor.

Hell, when Thor struck Hulk, Hulk was landing a punch. Thor was just faster wit his attack.

When Hulk punched Thor, the Odinson was actively trying to reason with him. I don't know if I'd call either a sucker punch but the major difference between those two scenes is that Hulk was actively attacking while Thor was trying his best to calm Banner down.

If you're going to call the hammer uppercut a sucker shot, then the punch Hulk threw easily qualifies.

Originally posted by janus77
IIRC "No Asgardian weapon can kill you" or words to that effect, were said by Malekeith, to The Kursed. This was during the first Bor-fight and again afterwards but before the attack on Asgard.

It was specifically "Asgard" that he mentioned.

I remember this because, at the time I made a mental note of the cliche and figured that it would end with Jane sticking a big-ass sword through Kurse and killing him (ofcourse, that wasn't how he died but it was a case of non-Asgardian weaponry doing the deed).

I just came back from watching the movie. This never happened.

However, during the scene where he cuts Algrim open and shoves the stone inside of him, he says that no power that their enemies can muster will be able to stop him or something of that sort. Before he is consumed from within that is. How you took that to mean that the Kursed are specifically immune to Asgardian weaponry is beyond me.

From what I gather, the Kursed sacrifice their own life force for a temporarily massive boost in power. In turn, it seems they can drain the life force from others.

janus77
I was pretty certain he said "Asgard", not just enemies and he said it more than once.

I'll watch it again (when I can get hold of it on dl), but I definitely remember it being said more than once.

And it pretty much was depicted as no weapons of Asgard working but some random sword not of Asgard being able to hurt him.

Mindset
An Asgardian blade cut into him, but it was just his shoulder.

No one was given an opportunity to attack him like Loki had.

wallman77
thumb up

Slowpoke
Still, I don't see him suffered fatal damage even after he was stabbed.

FrothByte
Originally posted by ares834
Um, they were fighting when Hulk nailed Thor. Sure, Thor was also talking but that means jack shit as they were still fighting. As I've said before, Thor was physically struggling against Hulk when the punch came in. As usual the Thor-brigade continues to make bull shit excuses for their God of Thunder.

And once again, I've never claimed Thor using the hammer was a sucker punch...

Yeah whatever. You ever get punched while you're busy talking and let's see you not call that a cheap shot.

Anyway...

Kurse wins.

carver9
Hulk wins.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by FrothByte
You're jumping to conclusions. The line "No power of our enemies will stop you" is a vary vague statement. Just because "our enemy can't stop you" doesn't mean "you can be stopped by someone who is not our enemy". If I said something like "I've trained to fight my enemies" you can't automatically assume that I'm weak against non-enemies.

But if you want to tackle it from a different angle try this: Thor took Hulk's punch full to the face. All he got was a slightly bloody nose. No broken lip, no bruised face, no black eye. Yet Loki easily stabbed Thor with his knife. Stabbed him with little effort right through his armor. Would you therefore say that Loki's blades > Hulk's punch? A sharp weapon behaves differently from a blunt weapon. And these superheroes seem to display different durability depending on whether an attack is blunt, sharp, or explosive, etc.

So Loki stabbing Kurse is not a mere thing.

So unless Hulk somehow manages to get his hands on a magical elven blade, I don't see how he's winning this.

Thank you for the reasonable post.

The assumption that "dark elf blade stabbed Kurse, therefore, Hulk can punch him to death" is fundamentally flawed. This shouldn't be a point of contention since it's common sense, but some people claim otherwise.

People are being too specific and too literal with Malekith's quote, and furthermore Thor is a very valid benchmark for both movie Hulk and Kurse at this junction. Thor, while not going all out on Hulk, managed to handle his punches, even blocked a full on punch IIRC, and was barely battered comparatively. And this is before he gets dropped from near-orbit in that glasslike prison that SHIELD had designed specifically with Hulk in mind.

Meanwhile, Kurse smacks Mjolnir out of his face and then beats Thor into a pulp. The damage sustained by Thor is exponentially higher than what he sustained by Hulk, and in the fight with Kurse he is "going all out". This seems pretty conclusive, unless as I stated before someone has some Hulk-specific evidence that explains why Thor can tank Hulk but not Kurse.

BruceSkywalker
Hulk wins

DARTH POWER
Kurse SMASH Puny Hulk

Silent Master
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Hulk wins

Only if you ignore their feats and just base your opinion on who you like more.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Silent Master
Only if you ignore their feats and just base your opinion on who you like more.

^ This is KMC modus operandi.

There's more confirmation bias here than a House meeting.

janus77
Hulk's feats > Kurse's best feat.

Mechafish feat from Avengers is phenomenal. Especially when you consider how durable those things are (crushing buildings by merely brushing against them).

Hulk, from a standing start, one-punch ended one of those things with no effort at all.

wakkawakkawakka
But...maybe that was a one time thing. I mean we don't see Hulk beating any more of the giant ship things by himself. Also how do we compare this to his relatively unimpressive "Incredible Hulk" feats.

Also Kurse did swat away Mjolnir twice and thoroughly beat the crap out of Thor.

janus77
Hulk did pull down another mechafish, when he ran through the office and jumped out at it. He also took a whole armada's concentrated fire-power for an extended period of time.

The Chitauri basically poured it on, singling him out as the danger man, and he emerged from it to go on and smash some more.

Also, Hulk drove the wedge into another mechafish, which Thor hammered home.


As for beating up Thor, remember how before the fighter jet distracted Hulk, he had been tossing Thor around? Hulk was dominating as soon as he got his bearings.

janus77
Regarding The Incredible Hulk, you have to take the movie for what it was. A loose continuation of Ang Lee's Hulk. With The Hulk being a frightening monster that Banner wants rid of.

He's in Brazil, trying to keep a low profile and live without incident. He clearly only begins to accept The Hulk as a part of him, later on. Roughly around the time Abomination comes into his own.

Also, Abomination's best feats are all attributable to Hulk, since it is his blood that powered Blonsky (Sterns took The Hulk "out of Banner", then Blonsky forced him to inject him with it).

It was much more of an action drama with a great pay-off ending fight. The central focus was on Norton's Banner and Liv and the cuntish General.

FrothByte
Originally posted by janus77
Hulk did pull down another mechafish, when he ran through the office and jumped out at it. He also took a whole armada's concentrated fire-power for an extended period of time.

The Chitauri basically poured it on, singling him out as the danger man, and he emerged from it to go on and smash some more.

Also, Hulk drove the wedge into another mechafish, which Thor hammered home.


As for beating up Thor, remember how before the fighter jet distracted Hulk, he had been tossing Thor around? Hulk was dominating as soon as he got his bearings.

Tossing Thor around? Hulk slammed him once on the ground and then threw him against the wall. That was it. And Thor was pretty much unhurt after that. How exactly was he beating up Thor? Hulk had the advantage at that particular point but it's definitely premature to say he was dominating.

As for the leviathan feat, we don't really know how durable those things were and how they would compare to Kurse or Thor. Sure they were going through buildings but that's not really impressive considering that guys like Hulk, Thor, and IM can smash through buildings as well.

Besides, Thor took out more leviathans than Hulk did.

FrothByte
Originally posted by janus77

Also, Abomination's best feats are all attributable to Hulk, since it is his blood that powered Blonsky (Sterns took The Hulk "out of Banner", then Blonsky forced him to inject him with it).


Blonsky had both super serrum and Hulk's blood in him. Don't know why you're trying to belittle Abom's power though, he's not in this fight. The only thing that he's useful for in this thread is proving that someone sufficiently strong enough has a chance to kill Hulk.

FrothByte
I just rewatched Thor TDW and just want to add a few things:

The sword didn't kill Kurse and it didn't injure him. Heck, it didn't even seem to hurt him. It was those little blackhole grenades that killed him.

Kurse was a better fighter than Thor. He was ducking and dodging around Thor's blows a lot. In comparison, Thor is a better fighter than Hulk, ducking and dodging around Hulk's shots. So we can safely say that when it comes to fighting skill, Kurse >> Hulk.

Kurse also has better reaction time considering that he easily swats away Thor or mjolnir even when his back is turned.

Stealth Moose
Yeah, the sword was just a much-needed distraction because Kurse was so OP Thor was unarmed and being straddle-punched. The backhanding Mjolnir just further solidifies how ridiculous Kurse was in comparison.

Odekahn
Hulk also got knocked out by gravity after falling from the fighter jet. I think it's safe to say Kurse could easily reach the force necessary for a KO.

Robtard
LoL @ the downplaying of Hulk's feats. His one-punch leviathan stopping and then destroying something with that much mass and momentum within that short time frame and distance is a ridiculously high-end feat.

Not as high as say Hancock's train feat, but still way the **** up there.

FrothByte
Originally posted by Robtard
LoL @ the downplaying of Hulk's feats. His one-punch leviathan stopping and then destroying something with that much mass and momentum within that short time frame and distance is a ridiculously high-end feat.

Not as high as say Hancock's train feat, but still way the **** up there.

Oh I'm not saying it wasn't a great feat, just that it's stupid to think he can beat Kurse simply because "he one-punched a leviathan".

After all, a stronger Hulk punched Thor and didn't do him any lasting injuries. So we could assume that Thor and therefore Kurse is a lot stronger than a leviathan.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by FrothByte
Oh I'm not saying it wasn't a great feat, just that it's stupid to think he can beat Kurse simply because "he one-punched a leviathan".

After all, a stronger Hulk punched Thor and didn't do him any lasting injuries. So we could assume that Thor and therefore Kurse is a lot stronger than a leviathan.

This.

Mindship
Kurse looked much better against Thor than Hulk did. Guess Hulk will just have to get even madder.

Stealth Moose
Hulk needs DMV + IRS prep.

quanchi112
Hulk wins.

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