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Who wins?

Bills unless she can use Giga Slave.

Who is lina

The sword wielding mage main character from the Manga/Anime Slayers.

Overall she's a low superhuman with a couple of really strong spells, ranges up to City level.

Its only the Giga Slave spell, which channels power from Lord of Nightmares (check the Tier list, she'll be at the top), that could possibly allow her to defeat stronger opponents, as slipping up with the spell could accidentally destroy the universe.



The chances of her being able chant, launch the spell and strike Bills would only be through some CIS, like Bills purposely taking the hit to prove he can. Otherwise he'll win.

So.. slipping up with the spell would destroy the universe?

Seeing as you're on this, how strong is this spell? Ballpark it if you will.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Seeing as you're on this, how strong is this spell? Ballpark it if you will.
In terms of physical damage it's not more devastating than the Dragon Slave. The reason the spell is at threat to the Ma-ō is due to its effect on their true bodies in the Astral Plane.

Have to say that's disappointing news.

Originally posted by BloodRain
So.. slipping up with the spell would destroy the universe?

Seeing as you're on this, how strong is this spell? Ballpark it if you will.

Think of it like her own personal Ultimate Nullifier spell, except focused on a single being, and you wouldn't be too far off.

It's the spell she uses against cosmic beings that can't be defeated in any other way, and channels the Lord of Nightmares (Slayers version of The Presence or One Above All, essentially. Multiverse creator and such) directly..

Originally posted by BloodRain
The sword wielding mage main character from the Manga/Anime Slayers.

Overall she's a low superhuman with a couple of really strong spells, ranges up to City level.

Its only the Giga Slave spell, which channels power from Lord of Nightmares (check the Tier list, she'll be at the top), that could possibly allow her to defeat stronger opponents, as slipping up with the spell could accidentally destroy the universe.



The chances of her being able chant, launch the spell and strike Bills would only be through some CIS, like Bills purposely taking the hit to prove he can. Otherwise he'll win.

Isn't she protected by some sort of magic aura that goes up as she chants, though?

Yes, there is a magic aura. Which is why her own dragonslaves don't hurt her even when fired point-blank.

It has it's limits, Hellmaster Phibrizzo was able to pierce it when she was casting Gigaslave.

Notably, this just caused the Lord of Nightmares to complete the spell, ride Lina, and flat-out obliterate the hellmaster.

Originally posted by BloodRain
So.. slipping up with the spell would destroy the universe?

Seeing as you're on this, how strong is this spell? Ballpark it if you will.

As strong as it needs to be, pretty much.

It's technically almost a summoning spell, summoning a bit of the Lord of Nightmares to do the job. One of the times Lina cast it, the LoN basically took over and used Lina as a host. Other times it looks more conventional, but that's only when done incomplete, at which point it's more like a blasty spell that uses pure destructive chaos instead of energy- The amount determined by the caster's magic capacity, but with the potential to just up and spread destroying everything.


The Lord of Nightmares is an infinite sea of chaos who's created many universes, btw.

I love Lina but the fact her stats are only basic superhuman are her downfall here. Giga Slave and possibly Ragna Blade would kill Bills but considering the nature of DBZ characters, he just has to point and shoot a well charged ki blast to destroy Lina since she won't be able to escape the AOE of it.

It's kind of odd how the top tiers in Slayers and Tenchi Muyo! consist of both nigh omnipotent and full omnipotent beings while their main casts tend to be low to mid superhuman characters. That's partly why DBZ fanboys tend to downplay both series in overall power since they don't have constant over the top action like DBZ has.

Originally posted by cdtm
Think of it like her own personal Ultimate Nullifier spell, except focused on a single being, and you wouldn't be too far off.
The Ultimate Nullifier is generally used on single targets, and it's nothing like the Giga Slave.

Originally posted by cdtm
the Lord of Nightmares (Slayers version of The Presence or One Above All, essentially.
Except nowhere near as powerful.

Originally posted by cdtm
Multiverse creator and such) directly..
She created four universes, indirectly, and her primary desire is to destroy those universes.

Originally posted by cdtm
Isn't she protected by some sort of magic aura that goes up as she chants, though?
No. Hence why spells with longer incantations, like Kaiju, aren't used in battle.

Originally posted by Q99
As strong as it needs to be, pretty much.Originally posted by Q99
Other times it looks more conventional, but that's only when done incomplete, at which point it's more like a blasty spell that uses pure destructive chaos instead of energy- The amount determined by the caster's magic capacity, but with the potential to just up and spread destroying everything.
The anime isn't canon.

Originally posted by Esomark
I love Lina but the fact her stats are only basic superhuman are her downfall here.
Are you saying that she's superhuman because she can swing a sword or because she has the advantage of spells? Because the former only implies peak human capabilities.

Originally posted by Esomark
Giga Slave and possibly Ragna Blade would kill Bills but considering the nature of DBZ characters,
I don't think it's reasonable to assume that either could kill Bills since you could make the exact same arguments for the Dragon Slave killing Bills as you could for Giga Slave.

Originally posted by Astner

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that either could kill Bills since you could make the exact same arguments for the Dragon Slave killing Bills as you could for Giga Slave.

So you don't think Giga Slave could kill Bills?

Do you think Bills is more powerful then Lord of Nightmares?

Originally posted by cdtm
So you don't think Giga Slave could kill Bills?
The Giga Slave is only more effective than Dragon Slave when used on a Mazoku. So if you'd argue that the Giga Slave would kill Bills then you'd have to argue that the Dragon Slave would as well, which in my opinion would be ridiculous.

Originally posted by cdtm
Do you think Bills is more powerful then Lord of Nightmares?
No.

She's infinite, there's four that we know of, they're made from her body, she set up the god/demon conflict in each, and the statement that she primarily wanted to destroy them is contradicted by her actions in both novel and anime (At the end of Try, for example, she could've easily wiped the universe).



What? No. There's plenty of things a Dragon Slave won't kill, and nothing in Slayers that a Giga Slave won't (save for the LoN).

Phibrizzo easily tanked one Dragon Slave, and even managed to escape a second. Gigaslave erased him.

Ragna Blade is stronger than Dragon Slave (but weaker than Gigaslave) and Gaav managed to survive that, and he's weaker than Phibrizzo.

Dragon Slave is just drawing off of Ruby Eyes, and it's strength is somewhat based on the bucket capacity (amount of magic usable at one time) of the firer, and is basically just a big explosion with an astral component that's basically a copy version of what Shabranigdu can do.

Gigaslave's demonstrated power is far greater.




It's not like Dragonball- the creator is involved in the animes, approving and working on episodes, and has even done canon anime only series (Lost Universe), and has said stuff from anime-only Slayers stuff like the Naga movies are canon (Naga is Amelia's sister, revealed only by the series' creator).

So in Slayer's case, the anime is used as canon, since the anime's so much more popular, and goes on longer, people actually often consider it *primary* canon over the novels, in both the US and Japan.

Originally posted by Q99
She's infinite, there's four that we know of, they're made from her body, she set up the god/demon conflict in each, and the statement that she primarily wanted to destroy them is contradicted by her actions in both novel and anime (At the end of Try, for example, she could've easily wiped the universe).



What? No. There's plenty of things a Dragon Slave won't kill, and nothing in Slayers that a Giga Slave won't (save for the LoN).

Phibrizzo easily tanked one Dragon Slave, and even managed to escape a second. Gigaslave erased him.

Ragna Blade is stronger than Dragon Slave (but weaker than Gigaslave) and Gaav managed to survive that, and he's weaker than Phibrizzo.

Dragon Slave is just drawing off of Ruby Eyes, and it's strength is somewhat based on the bucket capacity (amount of magic usable at one time) of the firer, and is basically just a big explosion with an astral component that's basically a copy version of what Shabranigdu can do.

Gigaslave's demonstrated power is far greater.




It's not like Dragonball- the creator is involved in the animes, approving and working on episodes, and has even done canon anime only series (Lost Universe), and has said stuff from anime-only Slayers stuff like the Naga movies are canon (Naga is Amelia's sister, revealed only by the series' creator).

So in Slayer's case, the anime is used as canon, since the anime's so much more popular, and goes on longer, people actually often consider it *primary* canon over the novels, in both the US and Japan.

Off topic: If you've read the novels, have you seen the fan translation projects of the second half of the series?

http://ceiphiedknightandbanditsplight.wordpress.com/novels/book10/

Picks up books 10-15. Says it's a "light" novel translation, though.

Originally posted by Q99
there's four that we know of,
There are four in total, each associated with one of the four Ma-ō and one of the four primary Shinzoku.

Originally posted by Q99
and the statement that she primarily wanted to destroy them is contradicted by her actions in both novel and anime
No it's not. The Lord of Nightmares lost control of Lina after she killed Phibrizzo in the Astral Realm.

Originally posted by Q99
What? No. There's plenty of things a Dragon Slave won't kill, and nothing in Slayers that a Giga Slave won't (save for the LoN).
The Giga Slave has only been used on Mazoku.

Originally posted by Q99
Phibrizzo easily tanked one Dragon Slave, and even managed to escape a second. Gigaslave erased him.
Phibrizzo wasn't killed by the Giga Slave.

Originally posted by Q99
Ragna Blade is stronger than Dragon Slave (but weaker than Gigaslave) and Gaav managed to survive that, and he's weaker than Phibrizzo.
Because Gaav and Phibrizzo are Mazoku.

And no, the Ragna Blade is only more effective than the Dragon Slave on Mazoku.

Originally posted by Q99
Dragon Slave is just drawing off of Ruby Eyes, and it's strength is somewhat based on the bucket capacity (amount of magic usable at one time) of the firer, and is basically just a big explosion with an astral component that's basically a copy version of what Shabranigdu can do.

Gigaslave's demonstrated power is far greater.
No.

Originally posted by Q99
It's not like Dragonball- the creator is involved in the animes, approving and working on episodes, and has even done canon anime only series (Lost Universe),
The Lost Universe anime is based of the light novels with the same name written by Hajime Kanzaka prior to the anime's release. Hajime Kanzaka didn't have any directive influence over the anime adaption of the Slayers or the Lost Universe.

Originally posted by Q99
and has said stuff from anime-only Slayers stuff like the Naga movies are canon (Naga is Amelia's sister, revealed only by the series' creator).
Out of the myraid of examples; Akira Toriyama designed Broly, but no one would argue that Broly is a canon Dragon Ball character.

Originally posted by Q99
So in Slayer's case, the anime is used as canon, since the anime's so much more popular, and goes on longer, people actually often consider it *primary* canon over the novels, in both the US and Japan.
No. You don't get to decide what's canon.

The novels are contradicted by the anime adaption on a number of accounts in NEXT.

She specifically stepped down after seeing Gourry's devotion in *both* versions.

The creator was quite likely to be joking when he said that- Here, read the interview transcript for context.

Like I said, both anime and manga versions have her acting in a way that suggests it's not a primary motive.




Yes he was, LoN-via-Gigaslave obliterated him.



It's not described as being limited to Mazoku in any sense. Rather, as it's chaos magic, ragna blade is supposed to work on everything (at least, given sufficient power).

Lina specifically searched for it because she wanted a power greater than that of the Dragon Slave, by searching for a spell from a lord greater than Ruby Eyes, to deal with her powerful enemies. It was never mentioned or implied to be a kryptonite type situation.




That's just character design. We're talking he had direct episode approval, and he's revealed behind-the-scenes story stuff on anime material.

If Akira Toriyama gave interviews on who the strongest characters in his DB universe are and he specifically included Broly and such, then that'd count. But he's never done so, so it's not.


On the flip side, Akira Toriyama did work on Battle of the Gods, so it's canon.



You don't get to decide what's canon- the creator does.

Hajime Kanzaka literally approved story scenarios and advised writers and directors on series canon for the show.

Originally posted by Q99
Rather, as it's chaos magic, ragna blade is supposed to work on everything (at least, given sufficient power).
It failed to cut through Gourry's blade.

Originally posted by Q99
She specifically stepped down after seeing Gourry's devotion in *both* versions.
Wrong. See Slayers! Vol. 8: King of the City of Ghosts, pages 164-165.

Originally posted by Q99
The creator was quite likely to be joking when he said that- Here, read the interview transcript for context.
No, it wasn't a joke. It was one of the main plot twists of Slayers! Vol. 7: Gaav's Challenge, as well as Phibrizzo's main motive in Vol. 8.

Originally posted by Q99
Yes he was, LoN-via-Gigaslave obliterated him.
No. It's never specified that the Lord of Nightmares used the Giga Slave to kill Phibrizzo.

Originally posted by Q99
It's not described as being limited to Mazoku in any sense. Rather, as it's chaos magic, ragna blade is supposed to work on everything (at least, given sufficient power).

Lina specifically searched for it because she wanted a power greater than that of the Dragon Slave, by searching for a spell from a lord greater than Ruby Eyes, to deal with her powerful enemies. It was never mentioned or implied to be a kryptonite type situation.
That's not what I said. What I said was that the Mazoku were resistant to Black Magic because Black Magic spells draw power from the Mazoku. I can't find the exact quote, but Lina expressed it along the lines of: it's like trying to drown a fish in water.

Originally posted by Q99
We're talking he had direct episode approval,
No. If he did then NEXT wouldn't contradict the novels.

Unless there's evidence of the author specifically pointing out that the canonicity of the anime adaption of Slayers! supersedes that of the original series then it isn't canon.

Originally posted by Q99
If Akira Toriyama gave interviews on who the strongest characters in his DB universe are and he specifically included Broly and such, then that'd count. But he's never done so, so it's not.
In Daizenshū Vol. 6 Akira Toriyama points out that Trunks got his sword from Tapion. That still doesn't make the movies canon.