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Plagueis may lose to Sidious in ROTS or DE, but some things should be noted about this Sith:

Sidious might not have found a way to defeat Plagueis by strength of arms. As per the STDP novel, Plagueis' life force was stronger than Sidious', as the apprenticed sensed after assassinating his master.

Second, Plagueis was a mathematical killing machine, far more so than Sidious. His reaction times, his senses, were all better, he could kill like no other. He was a far more brutal master as well, he avoided unnecessary battles and would not spare his apprentice should he attack the master as Sidious did with Maul. The Magister was not as forgiving as the Emperor.

My point is that he discovered a mild version of Darth Krayt's dark transfer, but had a far broader application. He may not have been able to heal himself after death (as far as we know); but he could enhance his genetic fortitude, making him smarter, more lethal, and able to draw more upon the dark side. His midi-chlorians were increasing by his will, he was able to cause an immaculate conception and because of all this he would have advanced exponentially in his powers had Sidious not taken him out so soon.

Sidious had grown quite a bit stronger by Ep. III due his battle with Windu, and having his own power turned back on him - but if Plagueis were to come back from death, especially with a technique like mc manipulation, he'd automatically catapult to DE Sidious or maybe even FoTJ Luke levels. Allana may have the greatest Force potential in the mythos (being descended from a genetically enhanced line of Allya's and the line of Force prodigies stemming from Anakin Skywalker); and may become the first Jedi Queen (>Grand Jedi Master) - but if Plagueis had continued to permanently grow in physical power, faster and faster, he would eventually topple Nihilus, Vitiate, Gethzerion, and maybe even Abeloth the Bringer of Chaos in physical might. He would make a worthy adversary to Allana in post-Legacy events, wiping out the weak, One Sith impostors who rule under a Jedi Queen - having returned from his grave on Muunilist using his mc manipulation.

Plus, we have Cade who's just retired from the Jedi Order, one dabbling in the exact same field as Plagueis but from a more esoteric viewpoint. We know the Skywalkers are easily corrupted to begin with, and are the most powerful Force wielders in the galaxy, followed closely by the descendants of Allya.

Cade's pretty darn hard to corrupt! Muur and Krayt have both demonstrated that.

Originally posted by Q99
Cade's pretty darn hard to corrupt! Muur and Krayt have both demonstrated that. Karness and Krayt were hapless children compared to Plagueis. He's far more intelligent, resourceful, and creative than they are.

If Sidious can corrupt Anakin, Plagueis can corrupt Cade. It's perfect actually, the Skywalkers were created by Plagueis and Sidious, and by apprenticing Cade the circle is completed.

Sidious had half of Anakins life to manipulate and corrupt him. Plagueis isn't going to be able to just show up, squirt evil juice in Cade's eye and corrupt him in a snap.

Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious might not have found a way to defeat Plagueis by strength of arms. As per the STDP novel, Plagueis' life force was stronger than Sidious', as the apprenticed sensed after assassinating his master.

I'm pretty sure he was sensing Anakin there, not Plagueis.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious had half of Anakins life to manipulate and corrupt him. Plagueis isn't going to be able to just show up, squirt evil juice in Cade's eye and corrupt him in a snap. No, may require more time. Sidious was patient, Plagueis was patienter.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious had half of Anakins life to manipulate and corrupt him. Plagueis isn't going to be able to just show up, squirt evil juice in Cade's eye and corrupt him in a snap.

Yeah, it would be lame story telling. But there is a precedent.

Originally posted by ares834
I'm pretty sure he was sensing Anakin there, not Plagueis. Possible, Plagueis sensed a power similar to his own upon killing Tenebrous - might have been Sidious' untapped potential. I actually like that theory more. In the rule of two, it would make perfect sense that the master must sense his next apprentice.

Originally posted by Dolos
Karness and Krayt were hapless children compared to Plagueis. He's far more intelligent, resourceful, and creative than they are.

No, they really aren't. He may be a bit better, but not by much.

And Krayt accomplished what Plagueis didn't both in immortality research *and* galactic conquest.




Anakin was far more vulnerable to corruption. He was part of an order that he didn't trust/didn't trust him and had the vulnerability of Padme. Cade's accepted that sometimes loved ones die, has no interest in power through the darkside, and has significant experience with the dark side that tells him it doesn't get him what he wants.


Anakin was a Jedi in a time when the Sith were enigmas. Cade was a Sith hunter in a time when the Rule of Two were history he's studied, Plagueis' stronger successor is a guy who was beaten down by his ancestor twice, knows two other ancestors where turning to the dark side messed them up, and he's had personal sith training to see the internal point of view.



Originally posted by Dolos
No, may require more time. Sidious was patient, Plagueis was patienter.

Krayt was more patient than either of them, and Muur was patientest. Krayt trained and prepared for a century and a quarter before striking, and Muur is over seven thousand years old.

Originally posted by Q99
No, they really aren't. He may be a *bit* better, but not by much.

He's was almost as clever as Sidious.



No he didn't he died and his One Sith went on to serve a Jedi Queen.



The Skywalkers have the dark side instilled in them, it's apart their genetics. This is why it would be neat of Plagueis corrupted him.



Plagueis trained and prepared for over a century as well before even meeting Sidious, whom he trained for two decades.



Age=Patience?

I'm just saying it would be cool if Plagueis' dead body went on to heal itself the way Krayt's did in a grave on Muunilist. He'd awake after the event's of FoTJ. Where he'd spend the next 130 years scheming. Plagueis would be empowered by death as well, but this power up would be faaar greater, as midi-chlorians had to undergo fission to build new cells.

No he didn't he died and his One Sith went on to serve a Jedi Queen.


You've got your timeline mixed up. Allana was born in 36 ABY. In other words, a hundred and two years before Krayt died.


Jacen had a vision of her being corrupted by the One Sith and being used to rule the galaxy in the 60~ ABYs.

Due to his falling as Caedus, this did not happen. Allana lived and died while the One Sith remained in secrecy.



No they don't, it's just the dark siders aim for them due to their power. Light and dark are not genetic.

Everyone failed to turn Luke. Everyone failed to turn Cade. Ones like Kol and Nat Skywalker and Jaina Solo never were even tempted.





So, less than Krayt. Btw, when I saw 'a century and a quarter,' that's from starting his order. He actually started training a few decades before that.

To give you an idea: Krayt started his sith training in order to gain power to fight Sidious back when he was alive.




Even putting aside that he lacked the ability, Sidious didn't leave that to chance. Wyyrlok needed Krayt's body as a symbol while he consolidated power. Sidious burned the sucker and kept his ashes in an urn:


http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120612164133/starwars/images/6/65/1of2palpatinesspiriturns.jpg

Krayt is purty lucky that Sidious died before he left Korriban.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Krayt is purty lucky that Sidious died before he left Korriban.

Yes. Reborn Krayt, Krayt at has absolute best, would've been a danger, though would still probably need to set up the encounter to handicap Sids in some way. Fully trained, Abeloth-fight Krayt would at least put up a fight. Just off Korriban for the first time, barely-Krayt? Hah!

Originally posted by Q99


You've got your timeline mixed up. Allana was born in 36 ABY. In other words, a hundred and two years before Krayt died.




Jacen had a vision of her being corrupted by the One Sith and being used to rule the galaxy in the 60~ ABYs.

Due to his falling as Caedus, this did not happen. Allana lived and died while the One Sith remained in secrecy.


I haven't read FoTJ yet. It's a long series to collect.



Plagueis possessed so much knowledge of, and power in, the Force that Sidious used his abilities to tempt Anakin - appealing to his sense of power. Who better to tempt a Skywalker than Plagueis?



About the same as Krayt, actually. Plagueis always been stronger in the Force, but Plagueis claimed he was well over 100 years old when he first met Palpatine, then the novel encompasses another 30 years afterward. Plagueis would have used his financial abilities to aid his apprentice's for another 20 years, thinning the herd and ensuring that only the most elite and efficient be allowed to live among his order as Sith apprentices, researchers, and financiers; performing their duties better than anyone else in the galaxy could.



Midi-chlorian manipulation was different from dark transfer. It wasn't as fast but it resulted in steady increases in power and Force sensitivity - a top of having other useful applications regarding the manipulation of life Force, causing instant death, etc.

If Plagueis' body hadn't been burned, the few midi-chlorians left in the tissues that had not died yet, like finger nails, might by chance still attempt to carry out Plageuis' last commands - undergoing fission and reviving other dead tissues, that would revive more. It would be a slower process, but in the end Plagueis would be far stronger than ever before.



I have not read Star Wars: Beware The Sith. I'll be sure to add that to my list of EU material to collect.

How about someone who knows Cade doesn't seek power?



That's just his total life span. Plagueis didn't start training when he was born, after all. He was a hundred thirty some years old total.

Krayt turned sith a bit over 130 years before his campaign, but he was already in his 40s and a Jedi master when he fell.

Darth Krayt was 185 years old when he died.

Or to put it in other terms, Krayt has been a sith about as long as Plag has been alive (though with bouts of stasis, to be fair).

Is this thread about bringing Plagues 170 years in to the future events just so he can be the villain who will get defeated in the end just as every other villain gets defeated? I mean, there's scraping the bottom of the barrel for used characters, and then there's scraping the bottom of the barrel for a character that doesn't matter.

Typical Lucien, instead of letting one of my weird-ass threads die like I expected it to, he necros it, he sits and festers, feeds off of it.

Vexxing, very vexxing. Be careful not to raise my ire, and pray we don't meet in person.

I will gladly lose control - especially if it turns out you've known me at one point in time. I don't like the feeling that I can't escape others' bygone perceptions of me.

Lol at "knowing you". You'd have to come to Canada for me to know you. And I know all 17 people who have ever been to this country, and none of them thought Plagueis was a worthwhile villain.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And I know all 17 people who have ever been to this country

Welcome to Canada

Population: 17

Also, while part of Legacy's concept is following off the legacy of what came before, it already did the 'returned sith lord' thing. New antagonists are good sometimes.