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What happened? Where do you think he teleported to? Also, do you think we'll ever see him again? If so, will he be as strong as the HOT or possibly even stronger?

I am also curious where he teleported to, I think he is an immortal jed/sith, grey one who is wandering the galaxy to better understand the force as a whole in both light and dark.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
What happened?

He either died or teleported out.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Where do you think he teleported to?

If he did teleport out then I have no idea.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Also, do you think we'll ever see him again?

Dunno. Its 50/50 imo.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
If so, will he be as strong as the HOT or possibly even stronger?

No.

Between TOR bombing and Disney seeming to focus more on their new era, I doubt we will ever see him again.

Also he is already stronger than HoT.

Originally posted by Board Walker
I am also curious where he teleported to, I think he is an immortal jed/sith, grey one who is wandering the galaxy to better understand the force as a whole in both light and dark.

Well, that seems... VERY far-fetched, no offence. Vitiate is the only one besides maybe Plagueis who achieved Immortality. The only reason Revan survived those 300 years is because of Vitiate.

Originally posted by ares834
Between TOR bombing and Disney seeming to focus more on their new era, I doubt we will ever see him again.

Also he is already stronger than HoT.

Since when?...

Originally posted by ares834
Between TOR bombing and Disney seeming to focus more on their new era, I doubt we will ever see him again.

Also he is already stronger than HoT.

TOR isn't bombing. It declined sharply last year but when it switched to F2P it stabalised and is making a tidy profit from microtransactions and the cartel market.

The HoT would kick his ass.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Well, that seems... VERY far-fetched, no offence. Vitiate is the only one besides maybe Plagueis who achieved Immortality. The only reason Revan survived those 300 years is because of Vitiate.

I not sure about how Revan was immortal so we don't know if he still is or not. Scourge still is after betraying Vitiate.

The shear fact that it went F2P so quickly means it bombed.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Since when?...

?

Since when what?

Originally posted by ares834
The shear fact that it went F2P so quickly means it bombed.

No, not really.

Originally posted by Nephthys
TOR isn't bombing. It declined sharply last year but when it switched to F2P it stabalised and is making a tidy profit from microtransactions and the cartel market.

The HoT would kick his ass.



I not sure about how Revan was immortal so we don't know if he still is or not. Scourge still is after betraying Vitiate. In Karpyshyn's book it says Vitiate gave Scourge immortality, however, it only said that Revan was being kept alive to steal info from Revan and learn from him I think.

Originally posted by ares834
The shear fact that it went F2P so quickly means it bombed.



?

Since when what?

Since when is Revan stronger than HOT? (He isn't)

Since KotOR.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, not really.

That they are now making more money should be obvious... That doesn't mean it didn't bomb, especially since the game is supposed to have the highest development budget ever.

Originally posted by ares834
Since KotOR.



That they are now making more money should be obvious... That doesn't mean it didn't bomb, especially since the game is supposed to have the highest development budget ever. SW: Galaxies was better

Was it? I've heard mixed things about it especially after the dramatic change.

Originally posted by ares834
Since KotOR.

For the record, theres some evidence that I'd rather not show that directly indicates the Hero is more powerful than Revan.

Sure...

Originally posted by ares834
Since KotOR.



That they are now making more money should be obvious... That doesn't mean it didn't bomb, especially since the game is supposed to have the highest development budget ever. LOLOLOL, SWTOR takes place 300 years after KOTOR and Vitiate stomped Meetra, Revan, and Scourge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
For the record, theres some evidence that I'd rather not show that directly indicates the Hero is more powerful than Revan. I think he's trolling, let him have his little dreams, Neph.

Yep, a Vitiate that wasn't weakened.

Galaxies was more OT, and less PT, at least initially. In that regard, it was amazing. It is also not a WOW clone, and therefore is original.

I still play TOR, but I admit that EA is an evil empire unto itself and some of the grinding is ridiculous. They could have made the game more interactive and less of a WOW meets KOTOR hybrid mess.

My Sith Inquisitor is nearly omnipotent though.

Originally posted by ares834
Yep, a Vitiate that wasn't weakened.

Prove that Vitiate was weakened when HOT fought him. (Alone, Might I add)

He was, very weakened. but so was the Hero. And they fought in an extremely powerful Dark side nexus that amped Vitiate and weakened the Hero.

Originally posted by Nephthys
For the record, theres some evidence that I'd rather not show that directly indicates the Hero is more powerful than Revan.

PM me if you would? I'm curious to know. And I doubt I'll finish the JK storyline this year, as the Republic storylines are generally boring.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Galaxies was more OT, and less PT, at least initially. In that regard, it was amazing. It is also not a WOW clone, and therefore is original.

I still play TOR, but I admit that EA is an evil empire unto itself and some of the grinding is ridiculous. They could have made the game more interactive and less of a WOW meets KOTOR hybrid mess.

My Sith Inquisitor is nearly omnipotent though. Still waiting for an MMO where the lightsaber's actually clash in combat.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Still waiting for an MMO where the lightsaber's actually clash in combat.

Keep waiting.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He was, very weakened. but so was the Hero. And they fought in an extremely powerful Dark side nexus that amped Vitiate and weakened the Hero. So basically, Vitiate got an amp, without that amp, he'd have same playing field as HOT, or was HOT less weakened than Vitiate?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Keep waiting. Like, if it had KOTOR's combat system but still had all the skills you could get for any character in SWTOR.

The Hero was less weakened than him. The Hero was weakened in that she needed to fight through Kaas City and the Imperial Guard to get to Vitiate and further deplete's her energy if you go to save one of your companions along the way.

But Vitiate was quite drastically weakened in that he tried to perform a ritual to absorb all the power of the galaxy and it backfired.

However, imo the amp he got from the Dark Temple should even it out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Hero was less weakened than him. The Hero was weakened in that she needed to fight through Kaas City and the Imperial Guard to get to Vitiate and further deplete's her energy if you go to save one of your companions along the way.

But Vitiate was quite drastically weakened in that he tried to perform a ritual to absorb all the power of the galaxy and it backfired.

However, imo the amp he got from the Dark Temple should even it out. So... Full-Power Vitiate vs Full-Power HOT, HOT wins.

In my opinion.... yes.

This would make the HoT probably the strongest Jedi in the mythos.

Nah, Luke has him beat.

Originally posted by ares834
Nah, Luke has him beat.

http://www.yesodweb.com/assets/baseless-assertion.jpg

Imo it is between Yoda, Luke and the Hero of Tython.

Tapping into a deep universal truth of course.

Originally posted by ares834
Tapping into a deep universal truth of course.

Barriss Offee did that when she smoked a bowldid some bota. Clearly, she is the Chosen One.

It's called transcending into the Netherworld of the Force.

Revan's gone. Sorry.

Both sides of it are purely speculation right now.

Pretty much.

But its canon that HoT >> Revan.

Originally posted by Dolos
It's called transcending into the Netherworld of the Force.

Revan's gone. Sorry.

"Fold space was a Force power that allowed a Force-user to bend space to instantly transport an object between places."

So I guess that white light comes up when every Jedi dies then?...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pretty much.

But its canon that HoT >> Revan.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Like, if it had KOTOR's combat system but still had all the skills you could get for any character in SWTOR.

..Yeah keep waiting. MMO's are like this for a reason.

Originally posted by Based
..Yeah keep waiting. MMO's are like this for a reason. I know, it'd be harder to work with as an MMO. Especially in PVP.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pretty much.

But its canon that HoT >> Revan. Wait, what!?

Vitiate was weakened in preparation for his ritual!

-Lord Scourge, SWTOR

Yeah. But he was given time to recover, and if that isnt enough, the Hero would be weakened in the dark temple. It evens out.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
"Fold space was a Force power that allowed a Force-user to bend space to instantly transport an object between places."

So I guess that white light comes up when every Jedi dies then?... Where are you quoting this from?

Depends, happened with Sidious, happened with C'boath, happened with the Cyborg Jedi in Empire's End.

Indeed, plus the Hero fights through a small army to get to him in the first place.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah. But he was given time to recover, He wasn't just going to recover until the ritual was over.



How do you know how much the Emperor was weakened?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Indeed, plus the Hero fights through a small army to get to him in the first place.

Non-sequitur, Dooku fought Obi-Wan and Anakin before regaining his composure and fighting Yoda.

His power wasn't weakened by guards somehow.

Vitiate disagrees, since if you go to rescue your love interest he says 'you dissipated your energy saving the weak, there are consequences.'

Bro, his efforts to do the ritual were thwarted. He cant do it unless there are millions/billions of simultaneous deaths. You dont think he was doing the ritual while fighting the Hero, do you?

He was weakened to a large extent. However, Scourge states that the Emperor would recover quickly anyway, plus the powerful nexus that is the dark temple would weaken the hero.

Read small army. As in, more than 2 foes. Of elite honor guards among other things.

I've played the HoT and the Barsenthor and I don't recall them outright saying that they >> Revan. Can I get that link too?

Mmmmm, maybe. I don't really know you that well.....

Hey, I gave you the summary of the Taral V flashpoint when it was in beta.

Originally posted by ares834
That they are now making more money should be obvious... That doesn't mean it didn't bomb, especially since the game is supposed to have the highest development budget ever. I think GTA V tops that list.

Malgus>Revan>>>>>>>>>>>HoT.

Vitiate was weakened in preparation for his ritual and did not have time to recuperate, that's why he fared better than Revan, that's the only reason. Not because he out-powered a being stronger than Darth Nihilus in the Force with a fraction of Revan's experience.

Originally posted by Dolos
Malgus>Revan>>>>>>>>>>>HoT.

Vitiate was weakened in preparation for his ritual and did not have time to recuperate, that's why he fared better than Revan, that's the only reason. Not because he out-powered a being stronger than Darth Nihilus in the Force with a fraction of Revan's experience. Um... No... Hate to break it to you but Vitiate will always be above Revan canonically, as Malgus will also be below Vitiate. Give me proof that anyone in TOR era is above Vitiate. Besides HoT, since everyone smart knows that HoT is stronger then Revan.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I think GTA V tops that list. Gta V has racked in some of the biggest sale's, but I doubt that it had the highest development budget ever.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Gta V has racked in some of the biggest sale's, but I doubt that it had the highest development budget ever. Numbers 1, 3 and 4 of the most expensive games are Rockstar. #2 is TOR.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Um... No... Hate to break it to you but Vitiate will always be above Revan canonically, as Malgus will also be below Vitiate. Give me proof that anyone in TOR era is above Vitiate.

Even so, the fact remains that Vitiate was weakened in preparation for his ritual and Scourge ensured that HoT would get to him before he had time to recuperate. Scourge had spent decades studying Vitiate's weaknesses. HoT's victory was the result of the exploitation of those weaknesses, no grandeur ode to HoT's supposed ">Revan" power.



Revan>HoT. HoT had no experience.

While Revan was level 20, yo!

Even without beating Vitiate the HoT is better than Revan. Pointing out her lack of experience is irrelevant since the Hero was one of if not the strongest Jedi in the Order as a padawan. The Hero has also fought more Sith than Revan has.

However, the Hero did beat Vitiate and it wasn't just because he was weakened. Vitiate himself credits the Hero's prowess to her 'immense power.'

Also Vitiate did have time to recuperate, especially with a Lightsided HoT, since the Hero needs to invade Dromund Kaas and fight through the Imperial Guard to get to him. He wasn't fully recovered, but he did recover some of his strength. And as Scourge says, he was recovering swiftly. The delay in going to save your companion is enough for Vitiate to noticeably recover, and that delay was tiny.

Originally posted by Dolos
Revan>HoT. HoT had no experience. Prove it

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Numbers 1, 3 and 4 of the most expensive games are Rockstar. #2 is TOR.

Wow. Did not realize it cost that much for Tomb Raider. No wonder Tomb Raider was stated to underperform despite selling 4 million games.

I'd love to see a reason as to why Revan is actually superior to HoT other than experience, which the Hero also has him beat in, in terms of fighting (powerful) force users.

Comparable feats and accolades presumably.

There's just nothing about HoT to put him above even a young Satele Shan, who was able to get the upper hand on Malgus with just a little help from a Republic Commando, much less Revan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But Vitiate was quite drastically weakened in that he tried to perform a ritual to absorb all the power of the galaxy and it backfired.
The ritual didn't backfire but interruption from the ritual backfired on Vitiate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
However, imo the amp he got from the Dark Temple should even it out.
No

Vitiate was also involved in suppressing other dark side forces inside the Dark Temple during this encounter.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah. But he was given time to recover, and if that isnt enough, the Hero would be weakened in the dark temple. It evens out.
It evens out nothing. Vitiate was not able to perform on the level (he typically does) during this encounter.

HoT was aided by a T7 and spirit of Orgus who bolstered his resistance capabilities or so I have heard.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
So... Full-Power Vitiate vs Full-Power HOT, HOT wins.
No.

Check this thread for revelations: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t587136.html

Originally posted by Nephthys
Imo it is between Yoda, Luke and the Hero of Tython.
IMO, HoT and Luke >> Yoda

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate was also involved in suppressing other dark side forces inside the Dark Temple during this encounter.

Gotta quote?

Originally posted by Dolos
There's just nothing about HoT to put him above even a young Satele Shan, who was able to get the upper hand on Malgus with just a little help from a Republic Commando, much less Revan.

Neph u should probably link him up with the HoT respect thread.

Agreed. Dolos, here, educate yourself.

Not above young Satele...... lmao.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No

Vitiate was also involved in suppressing other dark side forces inside the Dark Temple during this encounter.

Thats speculation. While the rampaging spirits had been calmed, theres no indication of what actually happened or if it was something Vitiate needed to continuously hold in check.

Originally posted by ares834
Gotta quote?
Dark Temple is filled with lot of dangerous dark side forces that act against the visitors. Sith Emperor had to ensure the safety of his Imperial Guard from such forces.

Originally posted by Dolos
Even so, the fact remains that Vitiate was weakened in preparation for his ritual and Scourge ensured that HoT would get to him before he had time to recuperate. Scourge had spent decades studying Vitiate's weaknesses. HoT's victory was the result of the exploitation of those weaknesses, no grandeur ode to HoT's supposed ">Revan" power.
This is correct.

Originally posted by Dolos
Revan>HoT. HoT had no experience.
Not correct.

HoT is possibly Luke tier and he have ample experience under his belt.

Originally posted by ares834
Gotta quote? Where's the quote where the Dark Emperor is so much more powerful because of his Temple??

If this theory is inspired by my reasons for why Sidious could possibly be the strongest Sith Lord in the mythos, the DE Sourcebook literally states that Byss was a dark side nexus, and that he was stronger on Byss than on the Eclipse.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dark Temple is filled with lot of dangerous dark side forces that act against the visitors. Sith Emperor had to ensure the safety of his Imperial Guard from such forces.

So it's supposition... After all, the Guards themselves are probably powerful enough to hold back the spirits and such.

Originally posted by Dolos
Where's the quote where the Dark Emperor is so much more powerful because of his Temple??

If this theory is inspired by my reasons for why Sidious could possibly be the strongest Sith Lord in the mythos, the DE Sourcebook literally states that Byss was a dark side nexus, and that he was stronger on Byss than on the Eclipse.

I can't quite recall the source or quote, but it is stated (probably somewhere in TOR) that Vitiate drains power and knowledge from the ghosts in the Dark Temple. On top of it's other benefits:

The Dark Temple is an immensely powerful darkside nexus. Its so powerful that conventional weapons fail when near it, so thick is the darkside in the air. Vitiate would be greatly boosted by its energies.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats speculation. While the rampaging spirits had been calmed, theres no indication of what actually happened or if it was something Vitiate needed to continuously hold in check.
Who calmed those rampaging spirits?

Originally posted by ares834
So it's supposition... After all, the Guards themselves are probably powerful enough to hold back the spirits and such.
Guards don't have (super) powers of their own. However, they share a special bond with the Sith Emperor which makes it possible for them to call upon the dark side to bolster their abilities.

However, I am not sure if Imperial Guards could contain the forces trapped inside the Dark Temple. Sith Emperor is most likely responsible since he chose this place to perform his ritual and stationed his guards inside this place without concern.

Originally posted by ares834
After all, the Guards themselves are probably powerful enough to hold back the spirits and such. Why is that?

Much like Sidious in DE, he had to empower his strongest servants with parts of his own essence. DE Sidious, Abeloth, Son, Vader w/Kaiburr Crystal, Nihilus, and Vitiate did wield the greatest energies of any other dark sider - BUT there energy levels were not constant, as much of there energy drew upon sorcery and negative emotions there energy was spent on weakening host bodies or bestowed upon servants.

The light side was far more stable, although even light sider's power fluctuated relative to how much dark side off-balanced the light within them. Luke could access so much light side energy that he destroyed Abeloth's host body despite her efforts to resist. Yoda felt the light leaving him, the light and dark powers of Daughter and Abeloth constantly off-balanced each other.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I can't quite recall the source or quote, but it is stated (probably somewhere in TOR) that Vitiate drains power and knowledge from the ghosts in the Dark Temple. On top of it's other benefits:

The Dark Temple is an immensely powerful darkside nexus. Its so powerful that conventional weapons fail when near it, so thick is the darkside in the air. Vitiate would be greatly boosted by its energies.
Yes, but Vitiate was heavily hit by the interruption from the (super) ritual he had orchestrated from their. That ritual was of unrivalled proportions and interruption from it may have even killed other participants barring Vitiate.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Guards don't have (super) powers of their own. However, they share a special bond with the Sith Emperor which makes it possible for them to call upon the dark side to bolster their abilities.

However, I am not sure if Imperial Guards could contain the forces trapped inside the Dark Temple. Sith Emperor is most likely responsible since he chose this place to perform his ritual.

Yes, I realize that the Guards derive their powers from Vitate I read the book. However, you claimed that it was Vitiate that was suppressing the spirits and there is simply no concrete evidence that that is true.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Who calmed those rampaging spirits?

Vitiate could have sent Sith in well beforehand to prepare for his ritual and silence the ghosts. Or he could have just done it himself, but before his ritual. Theres no indication that he was weakened from holding them back or anything.

Originally posted by Dolos
Why is that?

Much like Sidious in DE, he had to empower his strongest servants with parts of his own essence. DE Sidious, Abeloth, Son, Vader w/Kaiburr Crystal, Nihilus, and Vitiate did wield the greatest energies of any other dark sider - BUT there energy levels were not constant, as much of there energy drew upon sorcery and negative emotions there energy was spent on weakening host bodies or bestowed upon servants.

The light side was far more stable, although even light sider's power fluctuated relative to how much dark side off-balanced the light within them. Luke could access so much light side energy that he destroyed Abeloth's host body despite her efforts to resist. Yoda felt the light leaving him, the light and dark powers of Daughter and Abeloth constantly off-balanced each other.

I honestly fail to see what this has to do with anything I have stated...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, but Vitiate was heavily hit by the interruption from the (super) ritual he had orchestrated from their.

You misunderstand, a darkside nexus had nothing to do with being able to draw from the spirits. This is not the binding ritual used by Darth Nox. The Spirits=/=the Darkside nexus. Their presence may feed it, but they are still free to rage unless Vitiate expends energy calming them when in their presence.



Probably planned to use the death of millions to consume the aggregate energy contained within the spirits of the Temple half-way to initiate his galactic Force-drain ritual, obliterating their essences and consuming more and more to create a vortex emanating from and returning to Droomund Kaas, from the entire galaxy.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, but Vitiate was heavily hit by the interruption from the (super) ritual he had orchestrated from their. That ritual was of unrivalled proportions and interruption from it may have even killed other participants barring Vitiate.

Yeah and he was recovering quickly from that failure, bolstered by the power of the temple. The same power which would weaken the HoT, on top of all the effort expended getting to him.

Darkside nexuses weakening light siders is fairly inconsistent. Unless there is actual proof that the HoT was weakened by it I'm inclined to say he wasn't.

Luke was weakened by that very temple 4000 years later, and he wasn't even that close to it, let alone inside it.

"And it should also be noted that according to Jedi Academy Training Manual a light siders force abilities do diminish while on a dark side nexus."

^ from Sidious66.

Source? And as I said it is inconsistent. Sometimes the Jedi is weakened but typically that isn't suggested.

Plus HoT can be a dark sider...

Edit: ah, I'll have to check out the training manual then.

Originally posted by Nephthys
For the record, theres some evidence that I'd rather not show that directly indicates the Hero is more powerful than Revan.

There is?

Vitiate was weakened by his ritual, Scourge orchestrated that attack after having long studied the Emperor's weaknesses (SWTOR: Revan), HoT had the help of a Force spirit seemingly capable of resisting the darkside nexus of the temple according to as S_W__Legend pointed out, while HoT had great potential and may actually be given a name and gender, and another story arc in the future, there's no reason to assume he's more powerful than SWTOR Revan at this point in time. I'll even give you this, HoT may be stronger than the redeemed KoToR Revan. Maybe, we don't know yet.

Originally posted by ares834
Yes, I realize that the Guards derive their powers from Vitate I read the book. However, you claimed that it was Vitiate that was suppressing the spirits and there is simply no concrete evidence that that is true.
This is the best explanation.

Here is interesting revelation:



Dark Temple is arguably the most dangerous place in the galaxy outside cosmic dangers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate could have sent Sith in well beforehand to prepare for his ritual and silence the ghosts. Or he could have just done it himself, but before his ritual. Theres no indication that he was weakened from holding them back or anything.
I am not saying that Vitiate was weakened by holding back those ghosts but he had to put extra effort to hold them back.

Originally posted by ares834
Source? And as I said it is inconsistent. Sometimes the Jedi is weakened but typically that isn't suggested.

Plus HoT can be a dark sider...

Edit: ah, I'll have to check out the training manual then.

Ascension.

Even if they are, they still draw on the lightside, not the dark iirc.

Originally posted by Dolos
Vitiate was weakened by his ritual, Scourge orchestrated that attack after having long studied the Emperor's weaknesses (SWTOR: Revan),

Correct, but as I said, there are other factors at work.

Originally posted by Dolos
HoT had the help of a Force spirit seemingly capable of resisting the darkside nexus of the temple according to as S_W__Legend pointed out,

He's wrong. The HoT gets help from Ordus Din once and once only. It isn't something she continuously benefits from.

Originally posted by Dolos
while HoT had great potential and may actually be given a name and gender, and another story arc in the future, there's no reason to assume he's more powerful than SWTOR Revan at this point in time.

The HoT didn't just have great potential. They were the most powerful Jedi alive in the SWTOR era, including above the mighty Barsen'thor, another Jedi who is above Revan.

Originally posted by Dolos
I'll even give you this, HoT may be stronger than the redeemed KoToR Revan. Maybe, we don't know yet.

Very kind of you.

But the HoT would spank Kotor Revan.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not saying that Vitiate was weakened by holding back those ghosts but he had to put extra effort to hold them back.

Theres no evidence that it required him to put extra effort into holding them back. How do you know it isn't as simple as subduing them and thats it? Vitiate didn't need to put constant effort into holding them back before they woke up. If he put them back to sleep, I see no reason why he should need to apply additional effort after doing so.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
There is?

Not officially.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ascension.

Even if they are, they still draw on the lightside, not the dark iirc.

Been awhile since I read Ascnesion but I only recall Luke being weakened on Korriban, not Kaas.

And that is Tor being dumb as shit again. If you are using your anger, fear, hate, etc you are using the dark side.

The dark temple was name dropped as being something weakening them and strengthening the Sith they fight. I remember cuz I was preparing counter-arguments for if Tempest claims that the Dark Temple being still standing proves that Vitiate didn't destroy it (to which I'd point out that its 4000 yrs in the future so it could have been rebuilt).

Yeah, but all the Knights force use is still colored blue instead of red despite that. I dunno.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The dark temple was name dropped as being something weakening them and strengthening the Sith they fight. I remember cuz I was preparing counter-arguments for if Tempest claims that the Dark Temple being still standing proves that Vitiate didn't destroy it (to which I'd point out that its 4000 yrs in the future so it could have been rebuilt).

Yeah, but all the Knights force use is still colored blue instead of red despite that. I dunno. Technically, it would be 3,798 years later because of the two years between Karpyshyn's book and then 300 years later during TOR.

Now you are wanking the HoT.

We haven't seen anything from him other than besting mediocre Jedi and Sith, you're putting everything on his battle with Vitiate, and Vitiate was at a fraction of his greatest powers. His powers fluctuated throughout the centuries, it was his esoteric abilities that mainly allowed him to gain a lot of power to defeat the Dark Council or to bestow power on his subjects.

I do not think he was at his peak even when he was challenged by Revan, as earlier he'd wiped out an entire Dark Council in a flash of light. Revan had years, could draw on both lightside and dark side energies, if he can draw on the dark side, for hundreds of years, you better believe he's far stronger than HoT; the Sith, Jedi, and opponents he defeated, including the weakened Vitiate (and we don't know the extent of this weakening) are completely unquantifiable, don't add up to Revan's accolades.

HoT was not stronger than Satele Shan, I don't think he was even close. The online website encyclopedia thing did said powerful, but Bane was stated to be the most powerful Sith in history, Sidious claimed himself the most powerful Sith in history before being immediately contradicted by sensing a presence (presumably his master) greater than his own. That can be easily interpreted as hyperbole.

I just can't give you this, Revan was also a prodigy, in fact KoToR Revan would only be HoT's peer up until he faced Malak - due to his experience as a Sith Lord, it took him longer to resist Vitiate's mind domination but then again, as before, Vititate might have been weaker when he faced the Jedi Strike team than when he brain-washed Revan and Malak. And resistance to mind domination or to the dark side's affects suggests a strong mind, not necessarily a greater amount of Force energy.

Vitiate sensed great power in HoT, but then said that he lacked to will to harness it. Doesn't mean much either. HoT isn't a Skywalker, he had a biological father, his abilities may have been purely esoteric, like the Nightsisters.

There's nothing that puts HoT that far above Revan, and you're pretty much saying everyone is stronger than Revan, and based on your one quantifiable feat of defeating a weakened Vitiate, I don't see HoT the same way you do.

Alright, fair enough.

And nah, the color of force use is pretty much inconsequential. It's probably just that way for ease of use.

Originally posted by Dolos
Now you are wanking the HoT.

We haven't seen anything from him other than besting mediocre Jedi and Sith, you're putting everything on his battle with Vitiate, and Vitiate was at a fraction of his greatest powers. His powers fluctuated throughout the centuries, it was his esoteric abilities that mainly allowed him to gain a lot of power to defeat the Dark Council or to bestow power on his subjects.

I do not think he was at his peak even when he was challenged by Revan, as earlier he'd wiped out an entire Dark Council in a flash of light. Revan had years, could draw on both lightside and dark side energies, if he can draw on the dark side, for hundreds of years, you better believe he's far stronger than HoT; the Sith, Jedi, and opponents he defeated, including the weakened Vitiate (and we don't know the extent of this weakening) are completely unquantifiable, don't add up to Revan's accolades.

HoT was not stronger than Satele Shan, I don't think he was even close. The online website encyclopedia thing did said powerful, but Bane was stated to be the most powerful Sith in history, Sidious claimed himself the most powerful Sith in history before being immediately contradicted by sensing a presence (presumably his master) greater than his own. That can be easily interpreted as hyperbole.

I just can't give you this, Revan was also a prodigy, in fact KoToR Revan would only be HoT's peer up until he faced Malak - due to his experience as a Sith Lord, it took him longer to resist Vitiate's mind domination but then again, as before, Vititate might have been weaker when he faced the Jedi Strike team than when he brain-washed Revan and Malak.

There's nothing that put's HoT that far above Revan, not your one quantifiable feat of defeating a weakened Vitiate.

Except that he has way more better feats than Revan does. Maybe if you'd read his respect thread instead of saying things such as, "he's<<<<<Satele."

Originally posted by Dolos
Now you are wanking the HoT.

We haven't seen anything from him other than besting mediocre Jedi and Sith, you're putting everything on his battle with Vitiate, and Vitiate was at a fraction of his greatest powers. His powers fluctuated throughout the centuries, it was his esoteric abilities that mainly allowed him to gain a lot of power to defeat the Dark Council or to bestow power on his subjects.

I do not think he was at his peak even when he was challenged by Revan, as earlier he'd wiped out an entire Dark Council in a flash of light. Revan had years, could draw on both lightside and dark side energies, if he can draw on the dark side, for hundreds of years, you better believe he's far stronger than HoT; the Sith, Jedi, and opponents he defeated, including the unquantifiably weakened Vitiate, don't add up to Revan's accolades.

I just can't give you this, Revan was also a prodigy, in fact KoToR Revan would only be HoT's peer up until he faced Malak - due to his experience as a Sith Lord, it took him longer to resist Vitiate's mind domination but then again, as before, Vititate might have been weaker when he faced the Jedi Strike team than when he brain-washed Revan and Malak.

There's nothing that put's HoT that far above Revan, not your one quantifiable feat of defeating a weakened Vitiate. But HoT was also weakened, and Vitiate was amped by the Dark Side Nexus, on top of the fact that HoT had gone back to save Kira Carsen, and fought his way through Kaas City, I doubt he's 100%. In fact, Vitiate even says that HoT Diminished himself because he helped Kira.

Originally posted by Dolos
Now you are wanking the HoT.

We haven't seen anything from him other than besting mediocre Jedi and Sith, you're putting everything on his battle with Vitiate, and Vitiate was at a fraction of his greatest powers. His powers fluctuated throughout the centuries, it was his esoteric abilities that mainly allowed him to gain a lot of power to defeat the Dark Council or to bestow power on his subjects.

I do not think he was at his peak even when he was challenged by Revan, as earlier he'd wiped out an entire Dark Council in a flash of light. Revan had years, could draw on both lightside and dark side energies, if he can draw on the dark side, for hundreds of years, you better believe he's far stronger than HoT; the Sith, Jedi, and opponents he defeated, including the weakened Vitiate (and we don't know the extent of this weakening) are completely unquantifiable, don't add up to Revan's accolades.

HoT was not stronger than Satele Shan, I don't think he was even close. The online website encyclopedia thing did said powerful, but Bane was stated to be the most powerful Sith in history, Sidious claimed himself the most powerful Sith in history before being immediately contradicted by sensing a presence (presumably his master) greater than his own. That can be easily interpreted as hyperbole.

I just can't give you this, Revan was also a prodigy, in fact KoToR Revan would only be HoT's peer up until he faced Malak - due to his experience as a Sith Lord, it took him longer to resist Vitiate's mind domination but then again, as before, Vititate might have been weaker when he faced the Jedi Strike team than when he brain-washed Revan and Malak. And resistance to mind domination or to the dark side's affects suggests a strong mind, not necessarily a greater amount of Force energy.

Vitiate sensed great power in HoT, but then said that he lacked to will to harness it. Doesn't mean much either. HoT isn't a Skywalker, he had a biological father, his abilities may have been purely esoteric, like the Nightsisters.

There's nothing that puts HoT that far above Revan, and you're pretty much saying everyone is stronger than Revan, and based on your one quantifiable feat of defeating a weakened Vitiate, I don't see HoT the same way you do.


Dude, you are trolling. Do you just make this fact's up in your head? Bane was never ever stated as the most powerful Sith Lord in history, you are ****ing insane, Sidious is confirmed by George Lucas (G-CANON) to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
But HoT was also weakened, and Vitiate was amped by the Dark Side Nexus, on top of the fact that HoT had gone back to save Kira Carsen, and fought his way through Kaas City, I doubt he's 100%. In fact, Vitiate even says that HoT Diminished himself because he helped Kira.

How do you know exactly how weakened Vitiate was compared to when he fought Revan.

Your one single little argument, is unquantifiable. And, from what I can tell, bias toward a game you're spending money and time on - for whatever reason that makes you want to think HoT is stronger. IDK.

:facepalm:

just read the respect thread, and you will finally understand.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Bane was never ever stated as the most powerful Sith Lord in history, you are ****ing insane, You trollin me?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Except that he has way more better feats than Revan does. Maybe if you'd read his respect thread instead of saying things such as, "he's<<<<<Satele."

Honestly, don't see it. He has comparable feats sure. "Way better"? Nah.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t586426.html

Ok and? Which is vastly better than anything Revan has ever done?

Originally posted by Dolos
Now you are wanking the HoT.

No, this is wanking the HoT:

The Hero of Tython could beat Revan and Malak put together, with one hand.

The Hero of Tython could beat the entire Dark Council put together, just like Vitiate did.

The Hero of Tython is the greatest Jedi to ever live.

The Hero of Tython is the most powerful Jedi to ever live.

Originally posted by Dolos
We haven't seen anything from him other than besting mediocre Jedi and Sith,

Lol. Lord Scourge is not mediocre. Darth Angral was not mediocre. Tol Braga was not mediocre. Fulminiss was not mediocre.

Originally posted by Dolos
you're putting everything on his battle with Vitiate, and Vitiate was at a fraction of his greatest powers. His powers fluctuated throughout the centuries, it was his esoteric abilities that mainly allowed him to gain a lot of power to defeat the Dark Council or to bestow power on his subjects.

His power didn't fluctuate. According to SWTORE Vitiates power was 'ever increasing.' The Vitiate the HoT fought was more powerful than the one Revan got schooled by.

Originally posted by Dolos
I do not think he was at his peak even when he was challenged by Revan, as earlier he'd wiped out an entire Dark Council in a flash of light. Revan had years, could draw on both lightside and dark side energies, if he can draw on the dark side, for hundreds of years, you better believe he's far stronger than HoT; the Sith, Jedi, and opponents he defeated, including the weakened Vitiate (and we don't know the extent of this weakening) are completely unquantifiable, don't add up to Revan's accolades.

I don't know what you're saying here. Revan was drawing on the darkside for hundreds of years? What?

Originally posted by Dolos
HoT was not stronger than Satele Shan,

Other than her directly saying the HoT was better than her.

Originally posted by Dolos
I don't think he was even close.

Lmao!

Originally posted by Dolos
The online website encyclopedia thing did said powerful, but Bane was stated to be the most powerful Sith in history, Sidious claimed himself the most powerful Sith in history before being immediately contradicted by sensing a presence (presumably his master) greater than his own. That can be easily interpreted as hyperbole.

Huh? What encyclopedia said what about who?

Originally posted by Dolos
I just can't give you this, Revan was also a prodigy, in fact KoToR Revan would only be HoT's peer up until he faced Malak - due to his experience as a Sith Lord, it took him longer to resist Vitiate's mind domination but then again, as before, Vititate might have been weaker when he faced the Jedi Strike team than when he brain-washed Revan and Malak.

He wasn't weaker. The Vitiate who fought the the Strike Team in the Jedi Knight Act II ending was his most powerful form ever seen.

Originally posted by Dolos
Vitiate sensed great power in HoT, but then said that he lacked to will to harness it.

Yeah, and he was then proven wrong when the Hero kicked his ass.

Originally posted by Dolos
There's nothing that put's HoT that far above Revan, not your one quantifiable feat of defeating a weakened Vitiate.

I have a whole respect thread bro.

Originally posted by ares834
Ok and? Which is vastly better than anything Revan has ever done?

Revan defeating Forge amped Malak is very impressive, but the hero has a track record of defeating immensely powerful opponents.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Dude, you are trolling. Do you just make this fact's up in your head? Bane was never ever stated as the most powerful Sith Lord in history, you are ****ing insane, Sidious is confirmed by George Lucas (G-CANON) to be the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
GL never claimed that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Revan defeating Forge amped Malak is very impressive, but the hero has a track record of defeating immensely powerful opponents.

I'd agree. HoT has more kills to his name sure. But are they way better, I'd say no.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
GL never claimed that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in history. My mistake, he said "in the galaxy"

Originally posted by Jmanghan
My mistake, he said "in the galaxy"

Have a source for that quote?

Originally posted by ares834
I'd agree. HoT has more kills to his name sure. But are they way better, I'd say no. Nephthys has invested too much time and money on SWTOR to admit that HoT is any less than FoTJ Luke, apparently able to defeat full power Vitiate.

smh

Are you intimately familiar with the Hero's accolades and feats, as we are?

News just in: Emperor Vitiate defeated by mediocre Jedi Knight. Satele takes back her statement that the HoT is the Jedi's greatest warrior. Scourge takes back calling the HoT the Jedi's finest. Morr takes back calling the HoT the strongest Jedi he'd ever met. Vitiate totally recants about the HoT possessing immense power. In Dolos-world, the greatest Sith Lord to ever live up to that point got beat by a neophyte loser. The astromech probably carried her through the fight to be honest.

Okay, so it takes Anakin Skywalker a decade to start becoming stronger than Sidious; and it takes HoT no time at all to grow more powerful than Vitiate who can Force drain worlds on his own, and is presumably more powerful than Palpatine.

That's Neph's world - greatest warrior=/=most powerful Force wielder. Mace Windu was stated to be the greatest Swordsman ever produced by the Jedi order; yet is accepted as the "second baddest Jedi", under Yoda.

In this case, Satele was the most powerful Jedi in that era, but nothing compared to Vitiate.

HoT's power progression is insane, as is Anakin's. you're acting as if HoT didn't go through training, just like Anakin did. You're acting as if the acts in SWTOR are days apart. lmao when did he drain a world on his own?

Windu was never considered that bro, present the correct context.

the barsen'thor is more powerful in the force, as is the Hero:

"The Emperor lies beaten at your feet. For all his power, he was no match for you."

Originally posted by Dolos
Okay, so it takes Anakin Skywalker a decade to start becoming stronger than Sidious; and it takes HoT no time at all to grow more powerful than Vitiate who can Force drain worlds on his own, and is presumably more powerful than Palpatine.

That's Neph's world - greatest warrior=/=most powerful Force wielder. Mace Windu was stated to be the greatest Swordsman ever produced by the Jedi order; yet is accepted as the "second baddest Jedi", under Yoda.

In this case, Satele was the most powerful Jedi in that era, but nothing compared to Vitiate.

True.

It kind of does equal that. In terms of combat ability the Hero is above Satele and she calls him the Jedi's best hope. Orgus Din also says the Hero is stronger in the Force than he's felt in decades, when Satele is in the same damn room. Bengal Morr says the Hero is the strongest Jedi he'd ever met. As a padawan. Scourge calls him the Jedi's finest after the Hero kicks his ass. And Mace was never stated to be the greatest swordsman ever produced.

No she isn't. The Hero would beat her with mild difficulty.

HoT or any Jedi can never be stronger or even match Vitiate in power. Vitiate's abilities are unnatural.

Vitiate eventually reached too high with his plans and abilties and he was stopped by the will of the Force itself. HoT just happened to be the right agent at the right time.

HoT is on par with FOTJ Luke, IMO. He is unusually powerful outside Skywalker line-up.

Haven't you argued that Revan is more powerful than Nihilus despite Nihilus' abilities also being unnatural?

The Hero of Tython is the Champion of Light, yes. Doesn't mean it was all a predestined fluke.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Haven't you argued that Revan is more powerful than Nihilus despite Nihilus' abilities also being unnatural?
Nihilus is an anomaly; not exactly (super) powerful. He is like a black hole who consumes all biota in his path.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Hero of Tython is the Champion of Light, yes. Doesn't mean it was all a predestined fluke.
HoT and Luke are two of the most powerful and influential Jedi in the mythos.

I believe that HoT was a product of the will of the Force in response to Vitiate becoming so powerful. In-fact, TOR era witnessed arrival of unusual number of powerful agents of the light to checkmate the dark.

SWL actually has a point here. reallistically, the chances of a jedi so powerful to be born at exactly the right time to stop the Emperor are hilariously low.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nihilus is an anomaly; not exactly (super) powerful. He is like a black hole who consumes all biota in his path.

Other than powerful enough to destroy planets and lift capital ships into orbit.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
HoT and Luke are two of the most powerful and influential Jedi in the mythos.

I believe that HoT was a product of the will of the Force in response to Vitiate becoming so powerful. In-fact, TOR era witnessed arrival of unusual number of powerful agents of the light to checkmate the dark.

True.

Yeah, probably. Eh, there are more highly powerful Sith than there are Jedi in TOR.

Anakin having a midi-chlorian count higher than Yoda did not mean that he was automatically greater than Yoda. Perhaps with more time, HoT would have surpassed Revan and Satele, but he's not a vergence in the Force, nor is he directly descended from a vergence so FoTJ Luke levels are out of his reach.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
HoT or any Jedi can never be stronger or even match Vitiate in power. Vitiate's abilities are unnatural.

Vitiate eventually reached too high with his plans and abilties and he was stopped by the will of the Force itself. HoT just happened to be the right agent at the right time.

That's true for Yoda's defeat, to DE Sidious' defeat, etc. The balance of the Force, but it has nothing to do with the HoT's greater power.

Vitiate was weakened - Scourge used HoT to exploit his weakness, as he promised he would in SWTOR: Revan. There's no reason to assume HoT is able to match the likes of Malgus, Revan, or Satele. Luke beat DE Sidious, that doesn't mean he was anywhere near DE Sidious at the time.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate actually is what a (perfect) Nihilus should have been.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Er, no he does have control over it. He clearly does have control. Remember that he drained the entirity of Katarr... except for Visas, displaying a very good amount of control over his ability.
Actually, Nihilus didn't save Visas; she was a survivor whom Nihilus found when he was exploring Katarr personally.

As pointed out before, Nihilus could unleash immense power during his unnatural condition but such power was far beyond his control.

Nihilus is like a void in the Force; a machine which consumes all biota in its path to keep itself running as long as it can.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Traya was speaking metaphorically. Nihilus was still really ****ing powerful, he was just addicted to draining power and suffered in ways because of that. Its a different kind of strength that she was saying he lacked. There was no strength in his hunger because he wasn't able to use it for his own purposes. The only goal he could work towards was filling that hunger.
Nihilus would have self-destructed eventually. He needed to consume a lot just to sustain himself for a certain period of time.

Traya was actually the most powerful Sith Lord within the Triumvirate.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Actually, Nihilus didn't save Visas; she was a survivor whom Nihilus found when he was exploring Katarr personally.

As pointed out before, Nihilus could unleash immense power during his unnatural condition but such power was far beyond his control.

Nihilus is like a void in the Force; a machine which consumes all biota in its path to keep itself running as long as it can.

No, he spared her (at the end) :

KHSstYl9Yfs

No it wasn't. He had enough control to lift the Ravager off Malachor, enough control to defeat and drain Kreia, enough control to hold his ship together and enough control to easily dominate Meetra's team when she confronted him.

Yes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nihilus would have self-destructed eventually. He needed to consume a lot just to sustain himself for a certain period of time.

Traya was actually the most powerful Sith Lord within the Triumvirate.

True, but that doesn't mean he can't wield his power as he wishes.

If that were true, she would have defeated Nihilus herself. Its ridiculous to think she was anywhere near Nihilus' power.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, he spared her (at the end) :

KHSstYl9Yfs
Visas did not die from direct exposure to powers of Nihilus but she was unconscious and in bad condition when Nihilus found her. Nihilus then took her to his flagship and healed her wounds because he considered her to be good enough to quality for apprenticeship.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it wasn't. He had enough control to lift the Ravager off Malachor, enough control to defeat and drain Kreia, enough control to hold his ship together and enough control to easily dominate Meetra's team when she confronted him.
The feats involving Ravager and Kriea happened prior to events of TSL or even Katarr. At that time, Nihilus legitimately became very powerful. However, once he began to loose his physical body, his power began to diminish accordingly since he began to loose control over his abilities.

Originally posted by Nephthys
True, but that doesn't mean he can't wield his power as he wishes.
See above.

Nihilus's hunger reached such a point eventually that he could consume entire worlds at will but he also lost control.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If that were true, she would have defeated Nihilus herself. Its ridiculous to think she was anywhere near Nihilus' power.
Actually this is mentioned in an interview.

However, why would Traya risk confronting Nihilus after finding another wound in the Force who could do his bidding? This would be also safer approach.

He's dead, bro.

SPOILERS!

What?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-_dStEZJLa4/TQq1iflQzHI/AAAAAAAAAPE/D45yVu7kE5w/s1600/trololo-lolo-trololo.jpg

I miss old threads.