Darth Plagueis Vs SWTOR era Revan

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Dolos
Darth Plagueis at the end of his novel. Sidious sensed his presence, and his power was greater than Sidious' directly following his assassination. Though ROTS claims Sidious continued to grow stronger, I would say Plagueis' abilities are still in excess of anything Revan actually defeated in combat. He slaughtered hundreds of droids as a training exercise, while Sidious was impressed by Maul's slaughtering of just 4 advanced combat droids.

Revan had gone up against Vitiate, and proven more powerful than anyone besides Vitiate, but I don't think he's prepared for someone like Plagueis - who had a far more in depth knowledge of the Force than Sidious (DE Sidious did eventually come to an almost equal aptitude with his essence transfer, but midi-chlorian manipulation is still more impressive). If you read the novel the dude is like a encyclopedia of all the esoteric powers in every novel ever written. By virtue of being a Muun he has better reaction times and a more powerful brain and nervous system than Revan - but I think an even greater ability in the Force as well.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Plagueis pretty easily tbh.

Nephthys
Plagueis. Plagueis is up there at the top of the power levels. He's physically superior to Revan and could beat him in a lightsaber duel and he's got superior TK power to him since he disintegrated a dozen dudes with a Force Wave while injured.

Stealth Moose
Yeah, that sounds about right.

NewGuy01
Plagueis boots him out of the spotlight.

JediMaster97
Plagueis stomps.

S_W_LeGenD
Revan isn't a mook in comparison to Plagueis. Also, Revan's dueling abilities are immensely underrated in this forum.

Drill this in your skulls: you have to be either Sidious or Vitiate to stop Revan.

Stealth Moose
Can you substantiate that?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Can you substantiate that?
Substantiate what?

Revan have one of the most impressive combat records (defeated several powerful Sith Lords and even crushed whole groups of enemies numerous times) and accomplishments under his belt in the mythos (heavily influenced galactic events with his power and exploits).

In G-canon, defeating a Sith Lord is a BIG ****ing deal! Something that even Yoda doesn't have to his name.

Heck, Mandalorians are counted among the most impressive combatants in Star Wars mythos but Revan ripped them a new one, striking down many with his blade and powers.

Revan's only issue is that he is not as nicely documented in the mythos in the context of his capabilities as many other characters but is logical to assume that he can pull off all those fancy tricks that other well-defined characters can do with his powers.

It took Vitiate (an almost godlike avatar of the dark side) or galaxy's most powerful warriors (Imperial Strike Team) to stop Revan in a direct confrontation.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Drill this in your skulls: you have to be either Sidious or Vitiate to stop Revan.

Nothing you said substantiated this very specific claim above. And no, I won't take "but I argued this successfully in thread X" unless you link me directly. I am not going to spend my free time digging through your post history.

Q99
Revan is certainly good, but I'd say there's a couple others at his level.


Plagueis wins, but I do not think has an easy time of it and will have to be careful.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Nothing you said substantiated this very specific claim above. And no, I won't take "but I argued this successfully in thread X" unless you link me directly. I am not going to spend my free time digging through your post history.
You think that powerful Sith Lords such as Malak and Nyriss did not pack considerable punch during their prime? Malak was the leader of a powerful Sith Empire and Nyriss brought two of the greatest heroes to their knees without much effort.

And you didn't respond to this:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Substantiate what?

Revan have one of the most impressive combat records (defeated several powerful Sith Lords and even crushed whole groups of enemies numerous times) and accomplishments under his belt in the mythos (heavily influenced galactic events with his power and exploits).

In G-canon, defeating a Sith Lord is a BIG ****ing deal! Something that even Yoda doesn't have to his name.

Heck, Mandalorians are counted among the most impressive combatants in Star Wars mythos but Revan ripped them a new one, striking down many with his blade and powers.

Revan's only issue is that he is not as nicely documented in the mythos in the context of his capabilities as many other characters but is logical to assume that he can pull off all those fancy tricks that other well-defined characters can do with his powers.

It took Vitiate (an almost godlike avatar of the dark side) or galaxy's most powerful warriors (Imperial Strike Team) to stop Revan in a direct confrontation.

---

My "generous" assessment is that this contest is 50/50.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You think that powerful Sith Lords such as Malak and Nyriss did not pack considerable punch during their prime? Malak was the leader of a powerful Sith Empire and Nyriss brought two of the greatest heroes to their knees without much effort.

And you didn't respond to this:



---

My "generous" assessment is that this contest is 50/50. Yeah. Then Revan got destroyed vs Vitiate easily, with Meetra and Scourge's help, and I put Plagueis at least on Vitiate's level. AT LEAST.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You think that powerful Sith Lords such as Malak and Nyriss did not pack considerable punch during their prime? Malak was the leader of a powerful Sith Empire and Nyriss brought two of the greatest heroes to their knees without much effort.

And you didn't respond to this:

Plagueis has demonstrated considerable speed and power beyond what Malak or Nyriss has established in their limited showings. I'm not saying the latter are weak; I'm saying that Plagueis looks better on paper. Aside from being already known under the generic term of "Master swordsman" (which at least quantifies him for a top tier duelist), he has literally punched through people and moved faster than Revan ever has in canon. This is a big deal. His raw speed and power makes him a deadly threat to just about any fighter, and Revan has not shown the martial prowess to deal with anyone as fast.

As for the rest, those feats aren't in context.

1. Obi-Wan beat a Sith Lord. Obi-Wan > Yoda?

2. I'm well aware of Revan's combat record and have read his book. He does not demonstrate speed or power surpassing what Plagueis has demonstrated.

3. You did not at any point establish Sidious and Vitiate as the only ones who could defeat Revan; this is a baseless assertion on your part.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Yeah. Then Revan got destroyed vs Vitiate easily, with Meetra and Scourge's help, and I put Plagueis at least on Vitiate's level. AT LEAST.
Plagueis isn't comparable to Vitiate by a long shot.

Check this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t587136.html

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Plagueis has demonstrated considerable speed and power beyond what Malak or Nyriss has established in their limited showings.
- Malak, during his prime, was siphoning energies from several Jedi captives on the Star Forge to fuel his power. Prior to this, he had bested the trio of Revan, Bastilla and Carth on leviathan.

- Nyriss have one of the best showings in combat in the mythos. Both Scourge and Meetra were powerful Force-users and also master swordsmen. Scourge, in particular, have plenty of notable speed feats in the novel.

Plagueis benefits from decent documentation in versus debates but I am not sure if he have superior combat prowess then lets say Malak and Nyriss. Plagueis have beaten Venamis and?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm not saying the latter are weak; I'm saying that Plagueis looks better on paper. Aside from being already known under the generic term of "Master swordsman" (which at least quantifies him for a top tier duelist), he has literally punched through people and moved faster than Revan ever has in canon. This is a big deal. His raw speed and power makes him a deadly threat to just about any fighter, and Revan has not shown the martial prowess to deal with anyone as fast.
Scourge is canonically a master swordsman, and of such proportions that even his instructors were unwilling to duel him at the time of his graduation. Meetra was also a very impressive duelist as apparent from her performance against the Imperial Guard of the Sith Emperor. In-fact, Meetra have history with extremely dangerous Sith Lords.

As far as Revan is concerned, he had never been disarmed by any opponent in a lightsaber duel. Not even by the mighty Imperial Strike Team which confronted him during TOR era. Logically and apparently, he is extremely fast. He just lacks decent documentation to complement his abilities.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
As for the rest, those feats aren't in context.

1. Obi-Wan beat a Sith Lord. Obi-Wan > Yoda?
Defeating a Sith Lord is considered to be a remarkable feat for any Jedi within the Jedi Order itself. This is not an easy task for even a Jedi of Yoda's caliber.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
2. I'm well aware of Revan's combat record and have read his book. He does not demonstrate speed or power surpassing what Plagueis has demonstrated.
Revan's performance against Nyriss safely puts him among the most powerful and talented Force-users of the mythos; among the elites. Nyriss is already at the helm of high end range if Meetra also qualifies for this range. Revan is extremely effective in combat situations not just because of his raw power, but his "out of the norm" Force mastery complements his already significant raw power. This is why Meetra believed him to be superior to any opponent she had met in her life and she have faced very impressive opposition.

Also, I am not sure what is the issue with Revan's speed? He could hurl heavy objects towards his targets at moment's notice, move his blade so fast that it would seem like a shield, and physically outmaneuver swings from even highly skilled opponents in mid-fight situations. Revan had the reflexes to keep up with anything he encountered. Heck, he was naturally gifted in the use of precognition.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
3. You did not at any point establish Sidious and Vitiate as the only ones who could defeat Revan; this is a baseless assertion on your part.
My intended point is that one has to be on caliber of Sidious and Vitiate to keep Revan under check.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Malak, during his prime, was siphoning energies from several Jedi captives on the Star Forge to fuel his power. Prior to this, he had bested the trio of Revan, Bastilla and Carth on leviathan.

That's Malak with Star Forge plot-induced boss mode, not base Malak. We don't know if Malak buffed is sustainable like how the SI steals ghosts or if it is a temporary burst and expended upon use. Therefore, arguing buffed Malak is like arguing Hestizo Trace in the zone or bota-high Barriss Offee.

Carth is a non-factor in a fight against a Sith Lord, and Bastila's showings aside from her Battle Meditation are woefully low. She was captured by swoop gangs because her lightsaber got stuck, ffs.

We also have no idea how powerful Revan was at the time of the Leviathan, but it is clear he does not have his old memories at this point. Drew K. explicitly said that the fight against Malak when buffed was "epic", meaning that Revan got better in the interim. Otherwise, how could he be overcome by Malak's Force use on the Leviathan and then beat the same guy with buffs later?

Land mines.



No, the best showing in the mythos is Heztiso Trace, who has a burst of speed that is virtually unparalleled. A whipid bounty hunter who previously moved so fast he was a blur to a Force user looked like a statue before her in action. But it was a one-time "Force moment" that is unreplicated, and I wouldn't argue it as consistent.

Nyriss' lightning is uber impressive, and her thrashing of Malak and Meetra is nothing to sneeze at. But I don't see Revan easily defending against a speed-blitz by Plagueis, who is every bit as dangerous and perhaps moreso.



I understand the limitation of documentation issue. It's the reason why people assume Kun can't defeat anyone from the movies in some cases. But what we have here is a clear argument for raw power and speed, and that argument is in Plaguies' favor. Revan has not demonstrated this same level, although his Force use may be comparable.



So is Plaguies, Ulic, Kun, Mace, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda. They aren't all identical in prowess, and rarely stack up neatly against each other or others.



Drew's treatment of Meetra was heinous, but as she's presented canonically I have no choice but to conclude that she is farther from Revan's level of power than TSL suggests, and Scourge was still a mere apprentice at the time of the novel, so his respective power level is relatively weak too.

Sidious made Maul and Savage his bitches. But he struggled against Yoda. The former situation does not invalidate his latter difficulty.



I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Not every opponent "disarms". Also, if you want to be pretentious about it, Malak "disarms" Revan when he Force whirlwinds him and Force freezes him onboard Leviathan. This point is moot.



Which could potentially consist of five snipers of unknown quantity.



Given his Force connection, we can assume Revan is very fast. But we can't prove where he is faster than Plaguies. That's the whole debate.



This might mean something if all Sith Lords were equal. They are not. Also, Obi-Wan knocked Maul on his ass, cut his saber in half, and then bisected him. Obi-Wan is a fly on Yoda's ass in direct combat. This doesn't hold any water.



It is impressive, but it is not the best feat evah. There's plenty of stuff better. Hell, Ragnos' walking stick outperforms Revan's highest feat, capable of draining entire planets and blowing up temples. DE Luke tanks AT-AT fire and TK crushes one of them.



Says you.



And Meetra's opinion of her former leader and one who inspires dying loyalty (Even Malak admitted as much) is not definitive. Nihilus could eat an entire planet of Force users; I'd be lying if I said Revan could overcome him.



Barriss Offee as a padawan danced on Anson for the natives and twirled her saber so fast it appeared as a solid disk of light. This doesn't prove anything.



Elaborate. Or this means nothing.



So was little Anakin in TPM, who was an excellent pod racer thanks to precog and reflexes.



Then you misrepresented yourself by presenting it as an absolute.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Which could potentially consist of five snipers of unknown quantity.

I agree with everything except this. Theres only one Cipher 9, so only one could go on that mission. Same with the SW, BH and SI. I think its logical to conclude that as its a 4-man mission that all 4 of the Imperial characters went on it. And also that it was the Imperial classes who did it as opposed to some random Sith, hunters or agents.

That said, at the time the characters weren't that great. Nox hadn't gotten her ghosts, the Warrior's best feat was beating Master Yonlach and Yu-Li. The Champ had beaten Jarro and Cipher 9 had beaten a powerful Jedi Knight at the time, so they're still near their peak.

Stealth Moose
It was a joke; gameplay wise you could defeat Revan with five snipers in dancer's outfits. Using the fight as a point in favor of Revan is nonsense because there's zero canonical data to suggest who did what and how powerful they were at the time, unless you use the suggested level and argue from that POV.

Nephthys
That's what I'd do. The suggested level is 33-37, so about at the very start of Act II/Imperial Taris.

JediMaster97
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Drill this in your skulls: you have to be either Sidious or Vitiate to stop Revan.

lol

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Nephthys
That's what I'd do. The suggested level is 33-37, so about at the very start of Act II/Imperial Taris.

The other night my level 50 SI solo'd Foundry.

Darth Nox is better than Revan.

Nephthys
True.

Stealth Moose
Also, that priest of Ludo Kressh is disgusting. Forgot about him.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The other night my level 50 SI solo'd Foundry.

Darth Nox is better than Revan. Well, Yes... But if Revan was level 50 as well?? Think about it, could Level 38 Nox solo Level 38 Revan?

Mizukage Yoda
Level 50 Revan can be solo'd on Hard Mode by your Inquisitor. excellent

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Level 50 Revan can be solo'd on Hard Mode by your Inquisitor. excellent Not saying you are wrong, but can you give me proof someone has done that?

ares834
Please, Nox isn't even worthy to lick Revan's boots.

Nephthys
Nox would destroy Revan!

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/523643RjISg/hqdefault.jpg

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
That's Malak with Star Forge plot-induced boss mode, not base Malak. We don't know if Malak buffed is sustainable like how the SI steals ghosts or if it is a temporary burst and expended upon use. Therefore, arguing buffed Malak is like arguing Hestizo Trace in the zone or bota-high Barriss Offee.
Malak was simply better prepared for the odds on Star Forge then he ever had been before.

This is from the (former) official databank:



Star Wars: The Complete Encyclopedia even goes as far as to use the word "invincible" to describe Malak's position of power at this point.

It is obvious that Malak siphoned energies from multiple Jedi captives to fuel his power on Star Forge and was remarkably strong at this point.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Carth is a non-factor in a fight against a Sith Lord, and Bastila's showings aside from her Battle Meditation are woefully low. She was captured by swoop gangs because her lightsaber got stuck, ffs.
Carth maybe a non-factor in a fight against a Sith Lord in one-on-one scenario but he would matter in a supportive role at least (if part of a Strike Team or a group). Carth was among the finest officers of the Republic during his time so he would be good in combat logically.

Shan's line-up have been recently acknowledged as among the most powerful and gifted ones in the galactic history much like Skywalker's line-up:







Bastilla's capture at the hands of thugs is a circumstantial event. The escape pods of Endar Spire crash-landed on different locations in Taris (if I am not mistaken) and Bastilla was not in good shape when she found herself surrounded by thugs.

I am not sure why people think lowly of Bastilla because of one circumstantial event but they fail to learn anything from the story of Count Dooku:

http://starwars.com/explore/the-clone-wars/ep111/#!/about

Here is an advice: shit happens

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
We also have no idea how powerful Revan was at the time of the Leviathan, but it is clear he does not have his old memories at this point. Drew K. explicitly said that the fight against Malak when buffed was "epic", meaning that Revan got better in the interim. Otherwise, how could he be overcome by Malak's Force use on the Leviathan and then beat the same guy with buffs later?
I acknowledge the fact that Revan was not in his prime condition during his second confrontation with Malak on Leviathan but the latter had to contend with 3 individuals in this encounter, not just 1.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Land mines.
Happy Dance

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No, the best showing in the mythos is Heztiso Trace, who has a burst of speed that is virtually unparalleled. A whipid bounty hunter who previously moved so fast he was a blur to a Force user looked like a statue before her in action. But it was a one-time "Force moment" that is unreplicated, and I wouldn't argue it as consistent.
confused

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Nyriss' lightning is uber impressive, and her thrashing of Malak and Meetra is nothing to sneeze at. But I don't see Revan easily defending against a speed-blitz by Plagueis, who is every bit as dangerous and perhaps moreso.
I am not asserting that Plagueis would be easy to handle. I put Plagueis and Revan in the same league.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I understand the limitation of documentation issue. It's the reason why people assume Kun can't defeat anyone from the movies in some cases. But what we have here is a clear argument for raw power and speed, and that argument is in Plaguies' favor. Revan has not demonstrated this same level, although his Force use may be comparable.
Speed feats are mostly unquantifiable and I try to refrain from relying upon them to decide the chances of a character in a versus contest unless meaningful quantification is possible. Revan have fought in lot of battles, his opponents ranging from soldiers to whole Strike Teams, and the Jedi Master have never ended up disarmed or blitzed in his duels (considering only martial aspects of combat in this argument). I would not underestimate Revan in matters of speed and dueling skills.

And raw power factor doesn't goes in favor of Plagueis at all: nearly atomizing defenseless individuals is not comparable to utterly destroying a powerful Sith Lord in a short span of time. Sorry.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So is Plaguies, Ulic, Kun, Mace, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda. They aren't all identical in prowess, and rarely stack up neatly against each other or others.
I agree but Scourge is legitimately among the premium duelists of the mythos:

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Drew's treatment of Meetra was heinous, but as she's presented canonically I have no choice but to conclude that she is farther from Revan's level of power than TSL suggests, and Scourge was still a mere apprentice at the time of the novel, so his respective power level is relatively weak too.
Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan doesn't takes away from Meetra's previous accomplishments. It actually complements Mr. Chris's vision about True Sith:



And Scourge was not an apprentice during the events represented by the aforementioned novel (a battle-hardened Sith Lord instead):



Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Sidious made Maul and Savage his bitches. But he struggled against Yoda. The former situation does not invalidate his latter difficulty.
See above

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Not every opponent "disarms". Also, if you want to be pretentious about it, Malak "disarms" Revan when he Force whirlwinds him and Force freezes him onboard Leviathan. This point is moot.
Malak disarmed Revan with his Force powers, not with martial prowess. My original point is about martial prowess of Revan.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Which could potentially consist of five snipers of unknown quantity.
Do you think that Revan was/is this easy to knock out?

This mission was carried out under direct supervision of Malgus and he wouldn't send some troops after Revan, Malgus himself recognized Revan's incredible power.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Given his Force connection, we can assume Revan is very fast. But we can't prove where he is faster than Plaguies. That's the whole debate.
See above

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This might mean something if all Sith Lords were equal. They are not. Also, Obi-Wan knocked Maul on his ass, cut his saber in half, and then bisected him. Obi-Wan is a fly on Yoda's ass in direct combat. This doesn't hold any water.
Obi-Wan got lucky against Maul during their first encounter.

Obi-Wan was not a fly in comparison to Yoda by the end of The Clone Wars. His performance against Anakin should tell you something. Though I do believe that Yoda was/is on a different level in comparison to him or both.

Anyways, I think I need to rephrase my original statement. Revan have defeated some Sith Lords who are impressive even by Sith Lord standards. This holistically bodes well for his power and combat prowess in the mythos.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It is impressive, but it is not the best feat evah. There's plenty of stuff better. Hell, Ragnos' walking stick outperforms Revan's highest feat, capable of draining entire planets and blowing up temples. DE Luke tanks AT-AT fire and TK crushes one of them.
The phrase "plenty of stuff" is stretching it. Revan's feat of quick dismissal of Nyriss represents one of the foremost displays of raw power and Force Mastery in the mythos.

From another thread:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Tanking Sith lightning is as much feat of raw power (in use) as it is of mastery in defensive applications of the Force. This is a very complex feat on part of any Force-user.

A Force-user have to be both remarkably strong and an absolute master of defensive applications of the Force to directly tank Sith lightning without the use of a lightsaber. The stronger a Force-user, the greater are his chances to contain Sith lightning bursts accordingly.

A Force-user can have great knowledge of defensive applications of the Force but he will miserably fail to put such talent to effective use without considerable raw power to complement his abilities.

Every Jedi receives training in defensive applications of the Force (including Tutaminis) but only the most powerful among them can tank lethal Force powers without the use of a lightsaber.

Malgus's struggle in this kind of scenario is a sure-shot indication of how difficult this feat is to pull off for even remarkably powerful Force-users.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2eb5w0h.png

Called "Sith lightning," these charges cause excruciating pain and weaken life, and it is a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters to deflect such bursts.

From SWTERC (2012):

Scourge reveals to the Emperor Nyris's plot against him, presenting him with evidence of her treachery. The Emperor orders the Imperial Guard to strike against Nyris. Using the chaos of this reprisal as cover, Scourge and Meetra free Revan but are nearly stopped by Nyris. Revan's raw power in the Force bends Nyris's Sith lightning back at her, utterly destroying the Sith Lord.

Make no mistake, Revan can be extremely lethal in offensive use of the Force. In-fact, he redirected Nyriss's lightning back at her which is a sign of his enormous offensive power.

Ragnos's weapons are irrelevant; Luke didn't crush any AT-AT with his TK abilities and him deflecting firepower of one isn't such a big deal. Revan could match or exceed this level of performance as well since it would take 4 Basilisks to overwhelm him with their combined firepower. Basilisks are huge and impressive tanks; a lone Basilisk is more dangerous then AT-AT because of its flight abilities.

Also, inanimate objects do not match the power of the Force. It is much easier for a powerful Force-user to destroy a tank then another powerful Force-user. Look no further then "Satele versus Malgus" showdown # 2 to understand this point.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Says you.
So she is mediocre? Really?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
And Meetra's opinion of her former leader and one who inspires dying loyalty (Even Malak admitted as much) is not definitive. Nihilus could eat an entire planet of Force users; I'd be lying if I said Revan could overcome him.
Meetra's opinion is definitive because she was/is well aware of Revan's capabilities. Revan was/is the most powerful Jedi she had ever met and his quick dismissal of Nyriss complements the hype he receives from other individuals.

I won't be surprised by the possibility of Revan having an answer for Nihilus's powers. What if Revan manages to create a loop between them like he did with Nyriss in a (hypothetical) confrontation?

Nihilus could lay waste to an entire world but could still loose to a single "elite" individual in a direct confrontation. Such is the level of ambiguity in the Star Wars mythos. Revan can/could attack him from considerable distance with his own Force powers and I don't think that Nihilus would last long in such a scenario.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Barriss Offee as a padawan danced on Anson for the natives and twirled her saber so fast it appeared as a solid disk of light. This doesn't prove anything.
So you acknowledge that speed feats are mostly unquantifiable? Good

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Elaborate. Or this means nothing.
Revan physically outmaneuvered a swing from an Imperial Guard individual mid-fight with his acrobatics. This is extreme display of speed.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So was little Anakin in TPM, who was an excellent pod racer thanks to precog and reflexes.
Anakin could make the most out of his abilities after receiving formal training from the Jedi Order.

Revan's command of the Force outstrips that of majority. He also have enormous combat experience under his belt. He can hang with the likes of Plagueis.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Then you misrepresented yourself by presenting it as an absolute.
Vitiate and Sidious have set the bar too high in comparison to majority in the mythos.

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Not saying you are wrong, but can you give me proof someone has done that?

It's not at all that hard. The flashpoint is barely mid-30s. I also spec'd into the lightning/dps tree, so I can spam lightning all day without touching my Force reserves and major lightning attacks strike twice and have a higher chance to crit, among other things. SI is still a very vicious class if played right.

I also have 17k HP, so yeah. Revan isn't going to kill me anytime soon. I didn't even need to heal during the HK segment, because Force Storm stuns and wrecks his adds and he's apparently weak against Thundering Blast.

Also, I am too tired to line by line with SwG, so I'll do that later.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
no. He's saying when has some1 solo'd level 50 revan. Unless your bare-minimum gear inquisitor is enough to do so stick out tongue

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
no. He's saying when has some1 solo'd level 50 revan. Unless your bare-minimum gear inquisitor is enough to do so stick out tongue

There's no such thing as level 50 Revan. That's kind of the point.

Sinious
You can't go with the SWTOR logic. In that case, Dread Masters require an op team to kill where Vitiate is killed by the Knight only. Does that make the Masters more powerful? Not at all...
I think Plagueis and Revan both reached the secrets of the force equally but in different areas. Revan mastered light and dark side perfectly and survived for centuries. Plagueis had no enemies fighting him so he had the chance to study the force and manipulate it. Revan was constantly on war and experienced great events in the galaxy. I would say they are equal in force usage but Revan should have the upper hand on saber fighting an is more likely a better warrior so I think Revan would take this.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Sinious
You can't go with the SWTOR logic. In that case, Dread Masters require an op team to kill where Vitiate is killed by the Knight only. Does that make the Masters more powerful? Not at all...
I think Plagueis and Revan both reached the secrets of the force equally but in different areas. Revan mastered light and dark side perfectly and survived for centuries. Plagueis had no enemies fighting him so he had the chance to study the force and manipulate it. Revan was constantly on war and experienced great events in the galaxy. I would say they are equal in force usage but Revan should have the upper hand on saber fighting an is more likely a better warrior so I think Revan would take this.
Nicely put.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
There's no such thing as level 50 Revan. That's kind of the point.

no. there is bro.

DarthAnt66
thumb up

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
no. there is bro.

Hard mode Revan? Also ,some people are tragically missing the point. Revan is impossible to canonically measure up against the Sith heroes of TOR. We simply have no idea when they fought him and how.

Also, I don't have an hour to reply to SwG so you get postponed yet again.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
yeah hard mode revan= lvl 50

Stealth Moose
My holo-dancer is a level 50 something, so she could solo Revan outside of Hard mode.

Holo-dancer >>> Revan

Close thread, kthxbai.

Nephthys
Treek would roflclobber Revan.

CANON.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk129/Dollypig/Gifs/azula.gif

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