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Yoda takes him to the curb.

Yoda.

Hero.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hero.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111116692/3220513-7878984826-WRONG.gif

http://okcoc.com/arrow-blue-rounded-right.jpg

Yoda of course.

Hero, IMO

Yoda, for all his power, is not very good at undermining powerful opponents.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hero.

This.

The Hero of Tython.

Yoda, but the HoT is still high tier and this wouldn't be an easy fight for either side.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Hero, IMO

Yoda, for all his power, is not very good at undermining powerful opponents.

So I guess Sidious doesn't count?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yoda takes him to the curb.
This

Why would Yoda win/lose?

Win due to superior lightsaber prowess, comparable (if not superior) force feats?

Yoda also expends ****tons of energy fighting opponents because he is old and small and uses Ataru. His knowledge may be a benefit, but he's not shown outsmarting anyone in combat. In fact, looking back about the only way people could lose to Yoda besides being somehow inferior overall would be to fight him fairly.

Thats a good point, Yoda is kind of stupid in the way that he fights imo. And yeah, he guzzles that energy.

Jedi Bushido concept really.

Seeing as how Yoda is ( up until ROTS anyway) the most powerful jedi Master ever, master of every lightsaber style and most powerful in the force - he would win.


Hero of Tython is powerful but not enough to be Yoda.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yoda also expends ****tons of energy fighting opponents because he is old and small and uses Ataru. His knowledge may be a benefit, but he's not shown outsmarting anyone in combat. In fact, looking back about the only way people could lose to Yoda besides being somehow inferior overall would be to fight him fairly.

Uh, as far as I remember he managed to take a hostage from Count Dooku even though the latter had every advantage including being on a Dark Side Nexus.

Also aside from blatant CIS from Sith characters, when has "outsmarting" ever played a part in a duel?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats a good point, Yoda is kind of stupid in the way that he fights imo. And yeah, he guzzles that energy.

Not really he's .66m tall, and yet becomes a" whirlwind of destruction" according to the ROTS novel. He's the utmost master of Ataru.

Yoda's edge over Dooku needs some context. For one,Yoda struggled at first and Dooku actually tagged him with his saber. After this, Dooku loses his composure and his anger gives way to fear and Yoda begins beating him. Yoda was still expending a lot of energy. Dooku is 6'4", and Yoda a fraction of that size.

Regarding smarts, Yoda has the most straightforward battle plan of any Jedi: swing until they die, and if the Force is used, counter or redirect. The guy can redirect orbital missiles and shield himself from the vacuum of space, but when it comes to enemy combatants he just flails at them with his shoto.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yoda's edge over Dooku needs some context. For one,Yoda struggled at first and Dooku actually tagged him with his saber. After this, Dooku loses his composure and his anger gives way to fear and Yoda begins beating him. Yoda was still expending a lot of energy. Dooku is 6'4", and Yoda a fraction of that size.

Simply wrong. Dooku only tagged him because Yoda rescued a hostage and Dooku took advantage of the opening. And even then Yoda was gonna take him tot he curb.



Are you serious? A .66m tall diminutive green creature is perhaps single greatest swordsmaster the galaxy has ever seen. Think about that for a second. Imagine if the greatest swordsman in our world were .66m tall.

He invented a form that works for his small size, and mastered it to the highest degree. His strategy is not flailing at them with a shoto. His strategy is to spin around his opponent and literally duel circles around him. This capitalizes on his speed and remarkable strength. You cannot be an idiot and outduel Darth Sidious who literally can and does use all 7 forms of lightsaber combat at once.

Also I'd imagine that being a master of the 7 forms he does in fact utilize parts of the other forms for combat.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He invented a form that works for his small size,

Did he?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Did he?

Yeah, Yoda's usage of Ataru is unique.

-Master Vandar Tokare utilized telekinetics to float and battle as well as wielding his blades via TK.
-Master Even Piell utilized all 7 forms.

Yoda is perhaps the only Jedi in the mythos who is able to use acrobatics to that degree being able to batter his opponents defenses in an omni-directional manner. Even Dooku who was familiar with Ataru and its "ridiculous acrobatics" was unable to capitalize on any of the forms weaknesses when faced with Yoda.

So... no, he didn't invent anything?

Originally posted by Nephthys
So... no, he didn't invent anything?

Reinvented imo, like Kenobi did with Soresu.

Kenobi didn't reinvent Soresu.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Simply wrong. Dooku only tagged him because Yoda rescued a hostage and Dooku took advantage of the opening. And even then Yoda was gonna take him tot he curb.

On rethinking it, you may be right. I will reread the passage later.



It's funny how no one can ever tell.



That's kind of misleading though. Yoda is perhaps the greatest duelist in his era and is exceptionally small. However, as Qui-Gon Jinn pointed out, his potential is capped and his body in less than peak condition. He is visibly winded after fighting Dooku for a short amount of time, and is utterly exhausted after his duel with Sidious. He has no real staying power, and truly powerful duelists can wear him out because he has to expend more energy to compensate for his small stature and lack of physical mass and muscle behind his swings. He does amazingly well; I'm not saying Yoda is a loser or weak as a kitten; but the HoT could probably work him into a sweat and win. The Hero is noted as being an exceptional duelist barely landing on Tython, and later IIRC is called the greatest duelist in the Order in the presence of Satele.

Here's some things to consider:

1. Yoda's visibly winded against a Makashi master and expert duelist who himself is an archaic reminder of older age style dueling. Makashi is explicitly said to be the best saber to saber style in the universe and became a relic after the Battle of Ruusan.

2. Yoda has not overcome anyone entirely with the Force except for Ventress, who herself is a weakling against the likes of Sidious, Dooku, etc. in the Force as well. It's unlikely his prodigious Force talent will make him overcome the Hero as well. Neph posted some good feats in the respect thread which indicate as much and saber usage is the more common means of disposing an enemy close to one's self in strength.

3. HoT could possibly be a master of Makashi and have an off-the-charts level Force potential like Exar Kun or Revan did. They're noted in the log entry after defeating Vitiate as being too much for the Sith Emperor, who himself is superior in general power to Yoda.



How did he invent Ataru, which existed thousands of years before him? He may have adapted the premise to his unusual size and limitations, but he didn't invent it.



1. Yet Yoda never attacks any of his enemies from above or behind. In fact, when he leaps behind Dooku, he doesn't hit the Sith Lord at all, and when he does the same thing to Sidious, he leaps back in front of Sidious before striking the Sith Lord's front with his blade in midair. Yoda does not capitalize on his speed and mobility any more than to just swing at the enemy really fast in an attempt to overwhelm them. This ties in with his limited stamina; he's already fighting at a disadvantage and his style does not conserve energy, so he's at a disadvantage to anyone who can just duel him to a standstill.

2. I'm not sure when Sidious uses all 7 forms at once. I'm aware he knows them, but with this kind of logic so does Dooku, Mace, Maul, and Yoda. Fact is, they each use different approaches. Sidious is primarily a Juyo user, which makes sense because it is a form grown out of previous forms and then embellished.



Right, but you can master something and still be inferior to another combatant. Case in point: Grieveous had proficiency or mastery in 7 forms from Dooku, yet Obi_Wan took him out. Granted, he is a muggle but the point stands form mastery in itself is not victory granted.

The saber forms are also fighting philosophies and while you can learn them all, maybe only one rings true with your own internal method. For example, Kit Fisto used Shii-Cho, despite it being a "beginner form" because it rang true with him. He used it above and beyond what Obi-Wan considered the norm, adapting it to better suit his morphology. Dooku, a lover of the archaic and competitive, mastered Makashi. This form made him one of the most formidable duelists in the era, and again he made Yoda pant after a minute or two of trading blades. Either Yoda forgot his inhaler that day or he expends more energy to fight a Makashi user than someone else like say, Sidious (Yoda lasted much longer against Sidious before he became tired and he had already fought his way through the Jedi Temple earlier that day).

If we find out HoT is a bonafide Makashi user, in an era when Makashi is the penultimate form for badassery, this is a deadly advantage in combat. As it is, the feats for the character and lavish praise their elders give them is indicative of a prodigy bordering on Exar Kun levels of expertise.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose

That's kind of misleading though. Yoda is perhaps the greatest duelist in his era and is exceptionally small. However, as Qui-Gon Jinn pointed out, his potential is capped and his body in less than peak condition. He is visibly winded after fighting Dooku for a short amount of time, and is utterly exhausted after his duel with Sidious. He has no real staying power, and truly powerful duelists can wear him out because he has to expend more energy to compensate for his small stature and lack of physical mass and muscle behind his swings. He does amazingly well; I'm not saying Yoda is a loser or weak as a kitten; but the HoT could probably work him into a sweat and win. The Hero is noted as being an exceptional duelist barely landing on Tython, and later IIRC is called the greatest duelist in the Order in the presence of Satele.

Being winded means nothing. And considering the average saber duel doesn't last more than 45 seconds that means nothing.


So what? Dooku and Sidious were both exhausted after their respective duels against Yoda as well. Keeping up with his speed and power would wind anyone.



Well he TK'd an army of Droidekas, and Darth Sidious himself. So yes he most certainly could TK the likes of the HoT.



Wrong on two accounts.
1. Exar Kun and Revan were most certainly not too much for Vitiate, and neither was the HoT.
2. As far as Force Potential goes, Yoda had the highest midi-chlorian count as far as we know except for Anakin.
3. Vitiate is not superior in general power to Yoda. Yoda has better TK feats and excellent deflection feats. Vitiate almost got killed by the Jedi Exile.



Reinvented.




Wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_eu5BxAsU
1:33-1:35 he attacks twice while midair.
Dooku's getting pushed around that whole fight.

1:48 again he attacks while on a platform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUlqDMcS_RE
2:01
Seriously rewatch it.



No its stated by the choreographer that Sidious doesn't have one style but all of them. He proves this when he wtf pwns Maul and Savage with Jar'Kai




Terrible example. Mace Windu gave Kenobi the accolade as not only THE master of Soresu, but also the best person for taking down Grievous.



Except anyone who fights against Yoda will be panting after 30 seconds.
"The base of the Arena was a hundred meters below, littered
with twisted scraps and jags of metal from the pods destroyed in the
battle, and as the little green freak fell, finally, above, the victorious
shadow became once again only Palpatine: a very old, very tired
man, gasping for air as he leaned on the pod's rail."--ROTS novel



Except Yoda is above Exar Kun levels of expertise. It's blatantly stated that NONE of the characters from his era were supposed to be stronger than Sidious. The same Sidious who Yoda exhausted and pushed to the limits of his power.

Hmmm. You both make good arguments. However, taking out a Force titan such as Vitiate speaks for itself. Sidious and Vitiate are imo very, very close and the fact that Yoda wasn't able to defeat Sidious but the HoT was able to defeat Vitiate speaks volumes of his skill and power. You can't take HoT's defeat of Vitiate lightly and I think this feat should be considered when talking HoT vs. Yoda.

Perhaps Yoda is the more knowledgeable and more skilled combatant overall, but I believe HoT can give him a run for his money. It'd be an extremely close fight. If Yoda wins, it'd be the fight of his life. That's how close these two guys are.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Being winded means nothing. And considering the average saber duel doesn't last more than 45 seconds that means nothing.
You do realize that Form IV can be exhausting?

Form IV requires heavy use of the Force in martial aspects of combat.

Yoda preferred Form IV because of his small stature which would make it difficult for his opponents to hit him in close combat situations and the Grand Master could afford to expend enormous amount of energies on this dueling style due to his great affinity with the Force. Yoda's mindset was to quickly cut down his opponents with his great speed, martial and combat skills using Form IV. However, prolonged duels wouldn't work in favor of Yoda as apparent from his battles against other powerful Force-users.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So what? Dooku and Sidious were both exhausted after their respective duels against Yoda as well. Keeping up with his speed and power would wind anyone.
This depends upon following;

1. How the confrontation plays out;
2. What setting is involved;
3. How much efficient, calculative and refined the opponent is in the matters of combat.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Well he TK'd an army of Droidekas, and Darth Sidious himself. So yes he most certainly could TK the likes of the HoT.
HoT can TK the likes of Yoda as well.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Wrong on two accounts.
1. Exar Kun and Revan were most certainly not too much for Vitiate, and neither was the HoT.
2. As far as Force Potential goes, Yoda had the highest midi-chlorian count as far as we know except for Anakin.
3. Vitiate is not superior in general power to Yoda. Yoda has better TK feats and excellent deflection feats. Vitiate almost got killed by the Jedi Exile.
Actually, Vitiate is on a whole new level in comparison to Yoda; the former have defeated whole Councils of powerful Force-users with his abilities.

And how can you compare Vitiate and Yoda in the context of Force potential? You can't.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Reinvented.
Correction: modified/customized.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Terrible example. Mace Windu gave Kenobi the accolade as not only THE master of Soresu, but also the best person for taking down Grievous.
And this suggests that the likes of Windu, Anakin and Yoda were not capable of defeating Grievous? Give me a break.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Except anyone who fights against Yoda will be panting after 30 seconds.
"The base of the Arena was a hundred meters below, littered
with twisted scraps and jags of metal from the pods destroyed in the
battle, and as the little green freak fell, finally, above, the victorious
shadow became once again only Palpatine: a very old, very tired
man, gasping for air as he leaned on the pod's rail."--ROTS novel
Sidious one-shotted Yoda early on but wasted the opportunity to kill the Grand Master. The remainder of the duel was a long one with periodic lightsaber clashes. Sidious eventually ended up exhausted by heavy use of the Force.

---

HoT have demonstrated remarkable combat efficiency during his mission on Dromund Kaas. He knows how to make the most out of his circumstances and efficiently utilize his resources.

---

This (hypothetical) duel is not easy for both individuals involved but HoT is likely to exhaust Yoda earlier and eventually find an opening to undermine him to prevail.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Except Yoda is above Exar Kun levels of expertise. It's blatantly stated that NONE of the characters from his era were supposed to be stronger than Sidious. The same Sidious who Yoda exhausted and pushed to the limits of his power.
Exar Kun and Revan understood the importance of unpredictability. This is why both are among the most dangerous and capable combatants of the mythos, Revan even more-so then the other.

Sidious could have killed Yoda, if he had not been over-confident. It surprises me that Sidious seemingly learned nothing from his experience with previous Jedi Strike Team. So much for his tactical brilliance.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You do realize that Form IV can be exhausting?

Yeah its requires the most physical prowess of any of the 7 forms imo.



Which is why he dueled Sidious for several minutes. Any idea of Yoda's endurance problems were thrown right out the window when he and Sidious fought several minutes.



Dooku's one of the if not the greatest master of Makashi in history. He's the definition of effective, calculative and being refined in combat, and yet he retreated from Yoda, twice, once even with the old Master wounded.

So wounded Yoda>arguably the greatest Makashi master on a Dark Side nexus.



Highly doubtful considering no one in the mythos has managed that.



None of which are admissible in the context of a versus forum. Also Yoda disarmed with the man who utterly fodderized thee of the greatest blade masters the Jedi Order has ever produced.



Uhh because Yoda has superior TK showings to the Emperor. He threw around 300meter vessels fully loaded with thousands of battle droids and several tanks with mere gestures.




Jesus people sure do misread quotes. Its not that Windu, Anakin and Yoda weren't capable of defeating Grievous. Its that Kenobi was the best choice to defeat Grievous.




Red herring. If Darth Sidious blasted anyone who was off guard with lightning it'd be their undoing.



And Yoda did not on his mission to Coruscant when he cut through a battalion of the most elite soldiers in the galaxy to get to the Jedi Temple.




The only person in history to land a blow on Yoda is Darth Tyranus, and that was because he was concerned with a hostage. The HoT has absolutely nothing suggesting he can match even Sidious in a saber duel, let alone the Jedi who was able to disarm him of his lightsaber. Yoda has force feats that utterly crush his and swordsmanship that shits on his. Again Yoda disarmed the man who utterly crushed three of the greatest swordsmen the order has ever produced.



Cool story bro.



And Yoda could have killed Sidious when he disarmed him and shoving his lightning back in his face but for some erroneous reason jumps to a different pod. But that's entirely irrelevant to the current discussion.

That being said there's a VERY good reason Sidious elects to run from Yoda rather than face him in direct combat.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Highly doubtful considering no one in the mythos has managed that.


The only person in history to land a blow on Yoda is Darth Tyranus, and that was because he was concerned with a hostage.

Well Yoda has only been in 3 duels in the mythos.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well Yoda has only been in 3 duels in the mythos.

And sparred with Windu. Not that it matters, unless your name was Mace Windu, Dooku, Sidious or maybe Anakin you'd last all of a few against Yoda before he bifurcated you.

The point is that he's dueled against two of the most powerful Dark Lords in the history of the Galaxy and the only time one landed a blow on him was when he was distracted.

I know. I just think its kind of silly to make a big deal out of 'no-one in history has done X to him!' when we've only seen him in 3 actual fights.

Originally posted by Nephthys
.. Oh how I loathe you.

HoT can suck a fat dick.

Geez, keep it PG-13. We'll bang, ok?

Your butthurt is juvenile, Loneness. Stop trolling.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Geez, keep it PG-13. We'll bang, ok?
Please tell me that was a mans1ayer reference.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yeah its requires the most physical prowess of any of the 7 forms imo.
So Form IV is going to become a drawback for Yoda against the opposition of HoT's caliber. See below.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Which is why he dueled Sidious for several minutes. Any idea of Yoda's endurance problems were thrown right out the window when he and Sidious fought several minutes.
The entire duel lasted a while but actual lightsaber clashes were not long.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku's one of the if not the greatest master of Makashi in history. He's the definition of effective, calculative and being refined in combat, and yet he retreated from Yoda, twice, once even with the old Master wounded.
Dooku was outmatched in the ways of the Force! Yoda is on a whole new level in comparison.

HoT is also on a whole new level in comparison to Dooku.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So wounded Yoda>arguably the greatest Makashi master on a Dark Side nexus.
Mastery of Forms is not a vital point if power gap is too big. Pit Cin Drallig against Yoda and watch the former getting his head shaved, if Yoda shows mercy.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Highly doubtful considering no one in the mythos has managed that.
I don't recall anybody attempting to send Yoda packing with telekinetic abilities.

Dooku pulled down some rocks on Yoda and Sidious hurled some pods towards Yoda.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
None of which are admissible in the context of a versus forum. Also Yoda disarmed with the man who utterly fodderized thee of the greatest blade masters the Jedi Order has ever produced.
Why not? Such examples affirm that how potent and dominating Vitiate actually was; he is an absolute master of esoteric/sorcery related talents and these talents are absolutely valid for versus debates.

Vitiate's actions during his second confrontation with HoT confirms that esoteric talents can be utilized in combat situations just like other talents. Sith arts aren't so black and white as you presume them to be.

Vitiate's first known Council-purging feat reveals that he have extremely potent but mysterious abilities up his sleeve which makes sense keeping in mind his utmost dedication to acquiring mastery of the dark side.

You can't just dismiss feats of characters without basis.

Yoda have his moments of demonstrating great power as well. Should I dismiss those feats?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Uhh because Yoda has superior TK showings to the Emperor. He threw around 300meter vessels fully loaded with thousands of battle droids and several tanks with mere gestures.
Darth Jadus and Tulak Hord could match this feat. Willing to argue that they are above Vitiate?

Vitiate's peak telekinetic prowess is unknown at the moment but he is likely to be above Yoda in this department in the light of his holistic picture.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Jesus people sure do misread quotes. Its not that Windu, Anakin and Yoda weren't capable of defeating Grievous. Its that Kenobi was the best choice to defeat Grievous.
This does not makes sense. Jedi High Council may have simply "encouraged" Obi-Wan for the task to assassinate Grievous with such remarks. Jedi are known to motivate other Jedi in similar manner.

I would argue that Yoda would have reduced Grievous to spare parts with a wave of his hand.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Red herring. If Darth Sidious blasted anyone who was off guard with lightning it'd be their undoing.
Explain the "off guard" part.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And Yoda did not on his mission to Coruscant when he cut through a battalion of the most elite soldiers in the galaxy to get to the Jedi Temple.
I am not sure if troops would tire out Yoda since he can just cut a swath through them, he is that damn good.

HoT faced extremely high-profile opposition in comparison on Dromund Kaas involving troops, Sith and Imperial Guards.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
The only person in history to land a blow on Yoda is Darth Tyranus, and that was because he was concerned with a hostage. The HoT has absolutely nothing suggesting he can match even Sidious in a saber duel, let alone the Jedi who was able to disarm him of his lightsaber. Yoda has force feats that utterly crush his and swordsmanship that shits on his. Again Yoda disarmed the man who utterly crushed three of the greatest swordsmen the order has ever produced.
HoT have blitzed skilled opponents even during "surprise moments" and subdued some of the galaxy's proven swordsmen (key word is "proven" and not just "celebrated". In addition, HoT had acquired such level of Force Mastery that he could perform impressive feats without gestures like Yoda.

I wouldn't underestimate HoT's abilities in the manner as you do. Heck, you think nothing of Vitiate so I am not surprised.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Cool story bro.
Both Revan and Kun were/are not specialists! They were/are unorthodox and unpredictable.

What stories have you been reading?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And Yoda could have killed Sidious when he disarmed him and shoving his lightning back in his face but for some erroneous reason jumps to a different pod. But that's entirely irrelevant to the current discussion.
Cool story bro.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
That being said there's a VERY good reason Sidious elects to run from Yoda rather than face him in direct combat.
Sidious is a coward by nature.

Hero could take this. :P

Hero takes the win, period.

Originally posted by Kadan
Hero takes the win, period.
Hero has period, Yoda takes the win.

Originally posted by Stigma
Hero has period, Yoda takes the win.

comparing HoT to yoda is stupid.... I cant wait till he fades into the backround like everyone who came before him did

Yoda is old and gets winded just by walking and requires a glider to keep up with Windu and Kenobi when he's not using the force to aid his movements. Feeling the affects of fighting some of the fastest and most skilled duelists around for a little over 30 seconds or over a minute after he's no longer using the force does absolutely nothing to indicate how long he can last while using the force.

Is there anything to suggest that the HoT can keep up with Yoda in any area of combat? Because simply being powerful, fighting lots of people, and Yoda being winded after fighting the likes of Dooku and Sidious, does not suggest HoT can match an opponent who has mastery over all 7 forms of saber combat and can match the speed of someone who can blitz master swordsmen, all of whom have high reputations, extremely good accolades, and/or above average feats in regards to either dueling or speed. I went through Neph's respect thread, and I've seen nothing to suggest he's Yoda's level, just that he's likely someone whom Yoda can't just paralyze with a mere gesture, but Yoda does seem to hold an advantage in just the force as well, IMO.

Sidious can toy around with "one of the most skilled sith in history" while at the same time casually fend off the strength of Savage (who has disarmed many force users via sheer strength) for several minutes without getting tired, and even Yoda has an edge over Sidious in sabers. It's just hard to imagine that just anyone is on Yoda's level.

NewGuy, you're one of the best at comparing at contrasting character feats, so if you can go through my posts, break it down, and enlighten me a bit, I would appreciate it. I want to know why most place HoT on Yoda's level.

lol this thread is like an inverse version of Vitiate vs Sidious

Well, despite the fact that the Hero himself holds a plethora of his own feats and achievements, the singular reason he is commonly placed in Yoda's calibre is almost solely due to his victory in opposition of Lord Vitiate, and his status as the greatest Jedi of his day. It's really about Vitiate's hype rather than the Hero's truthfully.

The HoT's own personal accomplishments to support him are largely overlooked, but were addressed in Nephthy's thread. If you are looking for some key element that places the Hero in Palpatine's ballpark though, you aren't going to find it.

I myself agree with your initial observation/speculation, being that the Hero of Tython is definitely among the few that are both powerful and skilled enough to hold their ground against Yoda, but he's not truly on even standings with our green friend. I would however personally attribute him to being in the upper tiers with Mace Windu or Anakin Skywalker, for he really has accomplished a lot and proven himself many times against the most formidable adversaries of his day, and overcoming Vitiate is no small task. I honestly don't think there is much I can attribute to him that you wouldn't already know from Nephthys, though.

Originally posted by Stigma
Hero has period, Yoda takes the win.

its a spite thread HoT is way over blown and in all honesty should have 0 fans. His so called fans are just dabating him because power for powers sake, they don't like his/her character because they don't know what his/her character is. And since he/she has nothing to bring him/her down to earth he/she is prime overblowing material. Its actually getting really annoying

HoT>all.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
its a spite thread HoT is way over blown and in all honesty should have 0 fans. His so called fans are just dabating him because power for powers sake, they don't like his/her character because they don't know what his/her character is. And since he/she has nothing to bring him/her down to earth he/she is prime overblowing material. Its actually getting really annoying
U mad bro? I'm not really a fan of most of TOR's playable characters, but really? 0?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sidious can toy around with "one of the most skilled sith in history" while at the same time casually fend off the strength of Savage (who has disarmed many force users via sheer strength) for several minutes without getting tired, and even Yoda has an edge over Sidious in sabers. It's just hard to imagine that just anyone is on Yoda's level.

The HoT isn't "just anyone", so there's your answer.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
its a spite thread HoT is way over blown and in all honesty should have 0 fans. His so called fans are just dabating him because power for powers sake, they don't like his/her character because they don't know what his/her character is. And since he/she has nothing to bring him/her down to earth he/she is prime overblowing material. Its actually getting really annoying
People don't like him for his character. They like him because they get to play as him and want to think of themselves as super uber.

Game mechanics, customizability, and hype and voila you have a TOR super jedi ala Revan and HoT.

Yoda destroys

Originally posted by carthage
Game mechanics, customizability, and hype and voila you have a TOR super jedi ala Revan and HoT.

Yoda destroys
The only thing out of this that even makes any shred of sense is hype, and Yoda has plenty of that. I agree, most of HoT's hype comes from the Emperor, not what you actually do when playing them.

Yeah and some TOR fanboys claim that HoT can beat ROTS mace, game mechanics aren't canon xD

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The only thing out of this that even makes any shred of sense is hype, and Yoda has plenty of that. I agree, most of HoT's hype comes from the Emperor, not what you actually do when playing them.

The Hero is touted as the most powerful Jedi of the era from the first planet. She has her own hype too.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Hero is touted as the most powerful Jedi of the era from the first planet. She has her own hype too.
*he

Why is HoT a female?

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Hero is touted as the most powerful Jedi of the era from the first planet. She has her own hype too.
The HoT having hype was a given.
Originally posted by PTforthewin
Yeah and some TOR fanboys claim that HoT can beat ROTS mace, game mechanics aren't canon xD
This statement made zero sense. If you're trying to make me or anyone think a certain way with this, you failed miserably.

all bow down before the Hero of Nephthys :P

Originally posted by Nephthys
The HoT isn't "just anyone", so there's your answer.



Anyone who isn't just anyone is Yoda level.

Oh snap.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Hero is touted as the most powerful Jedi of the era from the first planet. She has her own hype too.


Oh sshhnaap!!

Originally posted by WildBantha88
all bow down before the Hero of Nephthys :P

Bow to the Queen, baby.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The HoT having hype was a given.

This statement made zero sense. If you're trying to make me or anyone think a certain way with this, you failed miserably. I'm not doing anything, but mace has more feats then HoT, and killing the weakened Emporer is his only true feat, but mace defeated sidious, which is a greater feat, since he was far stronger then the emporer at this point.

Originally posted by PTforthewin
I'm not doing anything, but mace has more feats then HoT, and killing the weakened Emporer is his only true feat, but mace defeated sidious, which is a greater feat, since he was far stronger then the emporer at this point.
Mace has more feats because he's well older in creation, so it's about the largest showing of power. Also, killing the Emperor, while they're largest, is not their only feat. Finally, Vitiate has shown more power up to TOR than Sidious has up to RotS.