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Why could not Goku refine his powers in SS2 to Surpass the Weakness of SS3?

Im starting to think more and more SS3 was a glorified version of Ultra Super Saiyan hence where its problems are rooted.

Increase in strength and size and longer hair but no speed...and the power drain is un sustainable..even dead in the other world Goku could not beat Janemba without Fusion

The difference is that the Ultra Super Saiyan-form was based on a trade-off of speed for power, whereas the Super Saiyan 2-form increased both speed and power and so did Super Saiyan 3.

The problem with the Super Saiyan 3-form was that Goku hadn't practiced it enough to where he could cope with its ki consumption.

Originally posted by Astner
The difference is that the Ultra Super Saiyan-form was based on a trade-off of speed for power, whereas the Super Saiyan 2-form increased both speed and power and so did Super Saiyan 3.

The problem with the Super Saiyan 3-form was that Goku hadn't practiced it enough to where he could cope with its ki consumption.

Exactly.

By end of Z, I'd bet money on him refining SSJ3 enough to equal Gohan, if not surpass him.

It's kind of what he does.

Yet in Battle of Gods S1 Vegeta surpasses Goku in S3, no matter what S3 is worthless and he gets his ass beat everytime..

Originally posted by Supra
Yet in Battle of Gods S1 Vegeta surpasses Goku in S3, no matter what S3 is worthless and he gets his ass beat everytime.
I think that would fall under plot induced stupidity. Honestly, the whole movie is difficult to make sense of in the context of the original series.

It's the first time a lower form surpassed a higher one.

Or maybe it wasn't really SSJ 1, and Vegeta achieved a completely different upgrade? Different but = toSSJ3.

Originally posted by Astner
I think that would fall under plot induced stupidity. Honestly, the whole movie is difficult to make sense of in the context of the original series.

No the point is SS3 is worthless and when it all comes down to it S1 is the best form and in that Goku and Vegeta can do anything..even Goku after losing his God Mode fights Bill head to head in S1..S1 beat Majin Boo, S1 beat Freeza, S1 is the ultimate form.

Originally posted by cdtm
It's the first time a lower form surpassed a higher one.

Or maybe it wasn't really SSJ 1, and Vegeta achieved a completely different upgrade? Different but = toSSJ3.

Yes he did the form was called Super Saijen..I thought you watched the movie?

Originally posted by Supra
Yes he did the form was called a Great Super Saijen..I thought you watched the movie?

Hm, I took that in the generic way. "You became a great SSJ", as in he became really powerful. Not coining a term.

Read my edit...

SS3 is a worthless over bloated USSJ form with little more then a lot of noise and upfront power but it will always fall back to S1 to get the job done..Goku has never won a single fight in S3, he was won countless in S1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Mo9NU68lE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH_CcJ-uBWI


Both transformations take way to long and way to much power to get what they are trying to achieve..

No. In terms of upgrades SS3 is to 2 as 2 is to 1. All-round increase, unlike USS.

Originally posted by BloodRain
No. In terms of upgrades SS3 is to 2 as 2 is to 1. All-round increase, unlike USS.

How come Goku cant beat anyone in SS3 then even in the other worlds when he has no power drain? He always has to fuze or go back to S1 to win..S1 is the prefect form..Speed, Strength Spirit, Ki

Originally posted by Supra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH_CcJ-uBWI

Both transformations take way to long and way to much power to get what they are trying to achieve.. Remember, that was the first time he went SSJ3 while he was alive. The first transformation would've obviously taken more out of him than normal, because he had only ever used the form while he was dead, thus didn't have to worry about ki usage as much.

Later in the very same arc, however, Goku was able to transform into a SSJ3 with ease:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17115590/411708.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17115591/411709.gif.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17115592/420711.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17115593/420712.gif.html

He transformed easily during BoG as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0YzjYaaigA
(0:22)

The ki-consumption/stamina issue inherent in a SSJ3 is likely something that Goku could learn to cope better with-- not unlike he did with his standard SSJ form.

Originally posted by Galan007
Remember, that was the first time he went SSJ3 while he was alive. The first transformation would've obviously taken more out of him than normal, because he had only ever used the form while he was dead, thus didn't have to worry about ki usage as much.

Later in the very same arc, however, Goku was able to transform into a SSJ3 with ease:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17115590/411708.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17115591/411709.gif.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17115592/420711.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17115593/420712.gif.html

He transformed easily during BoG as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0YzjYaaigA
(0:22)

The ki-consumption/stamina issue inherent in a SSJ3 is likely something that Goku could learn to cope better with-- not unlike he did with his standard SSJ form.

Yes but he failed to take down Bills in S3 where Vegeta surpassed Goku and fought Bills head to head.where S3 Goku was taken down in 1 touch..he always has to go back to S1 to finish the job, he never can win in S3..he has all the time in the world and other worlds to perfect that form yet it cannot be perfected because it is inherently wrong..

Originally posted by Supra
How come Goku cant beat anyone in SS3 then even in the other worlds when he has no power drain? He always has to fuze or go back to S1 to win..S1 is the prefect form..Speed, Strength Spirit, Ki
Because the single person in Z he's faced as SS3 was Buu. On the first occasion he admitted to not finishing him off, and on the second it was because he didn't have enough power, barely enough to hold the form let alone use its full power. For both he lacked proper control over that form, not going through a similar SS training like he and Gohan did in the Cell saga.

And for Bills that is because he was so much more powerful. Vegeta? Complete BS and made of plot-fail;
Fact- Using the same forms Goku and Vegeta are /roughly/ even.
Fact- Vegeta lacks SS3.
Fact- SS3 is 4x SS2, meaning even if Vegeta was somewhat stronger normally this form change would stop that.
With the facts that moment should not have happened. So IMO it had something to do with some unknown rage amp. Stupid, maybe, but that scene was stupid.

Originally posted by Supra
Yes but he failed to take down Bills in S3 where Vegeta surpassed Goku and fought Bills head to head.where S3 Goku was taken down in 1 touch.. Yes he did; he surpassed Mystic Gohan, Gotenks, and Fat Buu as well. As someone else said, though: that showing reeks of PIS, as it doesn't follow pre-established continuity in the slightest. After all, a lower transformation should never be able to surpass a higher transformation in the DBZ-U-- that defeats the entire purpose behind various SSJ transformations all together(this is all secondary to the fact that SSJ3 is canonically 4x> SSJ2.)

I just chalk it up to sheer fan-service, tbh-- Akira finally gave Vegeta his much-needed time to shine, and didn't give a phuck about shitting on his previous works.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Because the single person in Z he's faced as SS3 was Buu. On the first occasion he admitted to not finishing him off, and on the second it was because he didn't have enough power, barely enough to hold the form let alone use its full power. For both he lacked proper control over that form, not going through a similar SS training like he and Gohan did in the Cell saga.

And for Bills that is because he was so much more powerful. Vegeta? Complete BS and made of plot-fail;
Fact- Using the same forms Goku and Vegeta are /roughly/ even.
Fact- Vegeta lacks SS3.
Fact- SS3 is 4x SS2, meaning even if Vegeta was somewhat stronger normally this form change would stop that.
With the facts that moment should not have happened. So IMO it had something to do with some unknown rage amp. Stupid, maybe, but that scene was stupid.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1457681_210179595820990_125194263_n.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes he did; he surpassed Mystic Gohan, Gotenks, and Fat Buu as well. As someone else said, though: that showing reeks of PIS, as it doesn't follow pre-established continuity in the slightest. After all, a lower transformation should never be able to surpass a higher transformation in the DBZ-U-- that defeats the entire purpose behind various SSJ transformations all together(this is all secondary to the fact that SSJ3 is canonically 4x> SSJ2.)

I just chalk it up to sheer fan-service, tbh-- Akira finally gave Vegeta his much-needed time to shine, and didn't give a phuck about shitting on his previous works.

Im liking you more and more with every post brother keep it up!!

Originally posted by Supra
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1457681_210179595820990_125194263_n.jpg
The transformation to 4 has nothing to do with the stages in-between, so...

Originally posted by BloodRain
The transformation to 4 has nothing to do with the stages in-between, so...

The very humor and fun of DBZ has been lost on you

"We are Gonna need more chloroform..."

You dont need to fangasm every five seconds to be a fan. Im happy being a fan with dry pants.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You dont need to fangasm every five seconds to be a fan. Im happy being a fan with dry pants.

Did you laugh or cry or laugh and cry at the same time when you watched Battle of Gods?

Are the Emperorspants dry as well like your sense of humor?

"Gonna need more chloroform..."

It's probably the same deal like when Goku first went Ss1. He had trouble dealing with the new power, burned fairly quick. He was only super adept at holding the form after the hyperbolic time chamber training.

Originally posted by Damborgson
It's probably the same deal like when Goku first went Ss1. He had trouble dealing with the new power, burned fairly quick. He was only super adept at holding the form after the hyperbolic time chamber training.

He had no problem holding it with freeza the most powerful warrior he had ever faced at the time..

Freeza was weak.

In the manga, at least, Freeza burned out pretty fast at 100%. Goku was disappointed.

Originally posted by cdtm
Freeza was weak.

In the manga, at least, Freeza burned out pretty fast at 100%. Goku was disappointed.

obfuscating will not work

Originally posted by Supra
obfuscating will not work

http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/280/52849/9.jpg

Goku's reaction doesn't exactly imply he was putting out 100% of his stamina to keep pace with Freeza... He didn't even think the fight was worth finishing. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/icons/v2/icon2.gif

Originally posted by Supra
He had no problem holding it with freeza the most powerful warrior he had ever faced at the time.. He had no problem holding SSJ3 against Kid Buu either-- he just couldn't attain 'full power' in that level.

Anyway, the regular 'ol SSJ transformation may not have been as taxing as SSJ3, but it still took a physical/mental toll on its user for sure(when the Saiyans were still n00bs, of course)-- we saw this with both Vegeta AND Gohan during the Cell saga(Goku commented on it as well.) That said, if the Saiyans were able to overcome the aforementioned obstacles associated with a SSJ, they should logically be able to overcome the obstacles associated with a SSJ3 as well-- it'd just take more time, is all.

Originally posted by cdtm
http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/280/52849/9.jpg

Goku's reaction doesn't exactly imply he was putting out 100% of his stamina to keep pace with Freeza... He didn't even think the fight was worth finishing. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/icons/v2/icon2.gif

What does your 5 year old attention span of a post have anything to do with OP of Gogeta4 vs God Goku as OP has stated..

Originally posted by Supra
What does your 5 year old attention span of a post have anything to do with OP of Gogeta4 vs God Goku as OP has stated..

Wrong thread, sport.

And welcome to my ignore list.

Originally posted by cdtm
Wrong thread, sport.

And welcome to my ignore list.

Thanks!!! Now I dont have to see you in my threads anymore..

Gogeta wins

Originally posted by Supra
He had no problem holding it with freeza the most powerful warrior he had ever faced at the time..

He did actually. He even transformed back once on accident.

He also told Gohan of the tension felt while in the Super form and that they had to work on getting rid of that.

Originally posted by Damborgson
He did actually. He even transformed back once on accident.

He also told Gohan of the tension felt while in the Super form and that they had to work on getting rid of that.

So he goes back to normal once as and "accident" then goes right back..wow your making it rain..

Originally posted by Damborgson
He did actually. He even transformed back once on accident.

He also told Gohan of the tension felt while in the Super form and that they had to work on getting rid of that.

What does that have to do with anything?