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HoT has a "Moment of the Force" buff which makes them win.

Then Dopa Barriss and Zonazo Trace stomp both.

HoT

Poor ole Nyph can't even prove that HoT can last a second against Revan, Malgus, or Satele except use hyperbole about him being the best Jedi from a goddamn TOR encyclopedia.

Zonakin>>>>>>>>>>Satele>Malgus>>HoT.

HoTwanked/thread is OVER

Seeya in 5 years KMC

Originally posted by Oneness
Poor ole Nyph can't even prove that HoT can last a second against Revan, Malgus, or Satele except use hyperbole about him being the best Jedi from a goddamn TOR encyclopedia.

Zonakin>>>>>>>>>>Satele>Malgus>>HoT.

HoTwanked/thread is OVER

Seeya in 5 years KMC

FORMER DOLOS: I have reaffirmed my own bias by simply reasserting my own bias! I will now celebrate my complete and unshakable victory by declaring it as victory!

I also find it funny that you argue Zonakin as a viable fighter, when Zonakin is a "burst" of Anakin's full potential fueled by the Dark Side, and is not representative of his actual consistent ability. Again, if it was, he'd smear everyone into paste and conquer all.

I might as well claim Dopa-doped Barriss has Oneness with the Force and can do anything, or Zonazo Trace can move faster than anyone else in canon and therefore can beat Zonakin's face in five times before he can blink.

Your bias makes Terrorist Dooku angry:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5862/infideldookuattack8zu0qb.jpg

Originally posted by Oneness
Poor ole Nyph can't even prove that HoT can last a second against Revan, Malgus, or Satele except use hyperbole about him being the best Jedi from a goddamn TOR encyclopedia.

Zonakin>>>>>>>>>>Satele>Malgus>>HoT.

HoTwanked/thread is OVER

Seeya in 5 years KMC

TOR encyclopedia? Siwwy wabbit, I can prove all that from the game itself:

"The Emperor lies beaten at your feet. For all his power, he was no match for you. Now you must decide his ultimate fate."

Lol! I win.

EDIT: Why the hell can't some images be hosted? It's stupid.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
FORMER DOLOS: I have reaffirmed my own bias by simply reasserting my own bias! I will now celebrate my complete and unshakable victory by declaring it as victory!

I also find it funny that you argue Zonakin as a viable fighter, when Zonakin is a "burst" of Anakin's full potential fueled by the Dark Side, and is not representative of his actual consistent ability. Again, if it was, he'd smear everyone into paste and conquer all.

I might as well claim Dopa-doped Barriss has Oneness with the Force and can do anything, or Zonazo Trace can move faster than anyone else in canon and therefore can beat Zonakin's face in five times before he can blink.

Your bias makes Terrorist Dooku angry:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5862/infideldookuattack8zu0qb.jpg You're a moron.

Almost this dumb:

Originally posted by Nephthys ...

Anakin breaks him in seconds.

Ad hominem is usually a good concession of defeat.

Zone.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Ad hominem is usually a good concession of defeat. Don't act like a faux-intellectual and get knocked out.

Talk and act and write like an actually intellectual and say "I don't like that you insult other members instead of arguing."

****ing faux intellectual dweeb.

I love show Spartcus. No "the's" or "you's" or "your's" in show. Woman is grabbed by man and simply says "Remove hand." Not "remove your hand." What good comes of complexity in language? Nothing, just smooth talking douche-bags with silver tongue to jip you.

Fascinating.

Originally posted by Oneness
Don't act like a faux-intellectual and get knocked out.

Talk and act and write like an actually intellectual and say "I don't like that you insult other members instead of arguing."

****ing faux intellectual dweeb.

I love show Spartcus. No "the's" or "you's" or "your's" in show. Woman is grabbed by man and simply says "Remove hand." Not "remove your hand." What good comes of complexity in language? Nothing, just smooth talking douche-bags with silver tongue to jip you.

Not sure if serious, or just extremely abrasive and unaware of it.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Not sure if serious, or just extremely abrasive and unaware of it. If your rash is Dolos, it's probably the latter.

It's okay, cheap entertainment is always welcome.

Lighten up SM. So be chill like Neph, but don't be biased like Neph. So work on that propensity Ragnos and TOR era bias. You two aren't the only members biased toward TOR just because they have more wizardly Force abilities.

@Neph: Listen, TORE claims he's the most powerful Jedi of the order as he attacks the Emperor's gaurds, ROTS claims Anakin is the most powerful Jedi of the order before claiming Yoda to be the most powerful ever.

So that is a moot point, and it's safe to assume that Satele Shan was more powerful.

Furthermore, power means nothing in combat skill and proficiency mean everything. General Grevious many powerful Jedi Knights and he wasn't even Force sensitive. Don't get me started on the even more dangerous non-Force sensitive, Durge.

Force sensitivity helps, but both Luke and Anakin had the greatest Force potential ever and neither of them mastered Dark Transfer on their own, their descendant Cade did.

Abeloth was dozens of times stronger than Luke and he actually defeated her...THRICE.

Strength in the Force does not mean as much as you think, mmkay?

What's the point to all this? The one argument you ever use for the Hero, an that has gone on long enough that I'm going to shut down - Vitiate was WEAKENED, Hero had a droid, Vitiate - despite all his power - was not too good at H2H; hell, Meetra would have killed him in TOR: Revan if she'd sacrificed Revan to decapitate the Emperor rather than disarm him.

Mace Windu would have stalemated Sidious if Anakin hadn't arrived, but he did and Windu then beat the Sith Lord despite being far less powerful in the Force.

Luke (with a fraction of a percent of Sidious' power level in the Force) beat Sidious at the strongest he'd ever been, BEFORE Leia used Force harmony, and summoning the Force storm did NOT weaken him - he lost because Luke was better at lightsaber combat.

Vader lost to Galen Marek for trying to bull rush the former in their first duel - in their second duel, Vader's staunch defense allowed him to stalemate a MORE POWERFUL clone of Galen Marek - who was forced attempt to trick him.

Head to head claims that Vader (don't know it was human or cyborg Vader) would defeat Yoda despite being far less powerful in the Force. It goes on to state Ep IV (or VI I haven't actually read it) Luke would defeat Ep II (or III) Anakin despite being weaker in the Force and less trained than the latter.

Anakin lost because he tried to bull-rush Obi-wan; and could not overwhelm his master's defense before-hand.

Maul lost to Vader even though he was clearly going to win, because Vader pulled a seppuku and was better at using his hatred to survive mortal wounds, sort of like Darth Sion.

So, I would like you to address those points - before going on to claim the more powerful Anakin losses in his most powerful mindset.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If your rash is Dolos, it's probably the latter.

Second time this mother****er has come into a thread just to drop my name.

tl;dr

Originally posted by Oneness
Lighten up SM. Be more like Neph, except don't be as bias toward TOR as her - which you already are. So be chill like Neph, but don't be biased like Neph.


1. I am very "lightened up". I'm not even remotely miffed or mad, and never mistake my e-tone or sarcasm as indicative of 'madbro' mode. The people from here who have heard me speak IRL (Vene and Torvus, for example) were surprised at how chill I really am. Text is deceiving.

2. Neph and I disagree on TOR chars often enough. I haven't beaten all of the class story lines so I tend to avoid really debating in favor of any but the SI who I have completed. Meanwhile, your non-TOR bias (or just dislike) is worn on your sleeve for all to see. If you expect other people to "rein it in", take that advice yourself.

3. HoT wins, with Barriss coaching her.

Wow, actually trying to read it, theres just so much wrong here. Lol.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Not sure if serious, or just extremely abrasive and unaware of it. I'm abrasive and aware of it but remain abrasive because I'm online and can meltdown with getting into trouble.

This my free-therapy. Your my punching bag.

Don't think about turning it back at me because I will just start going "************ slkgil;shogsj!!!!!!" Then I'll just come back and be as abrasive as I care to be again the next weekend.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
1. I am very "lightened up". I'm not even remotely miffed or mad, and never mistake my e-tone or sarcasm as indicative of 'madbro' mode. The people from here who have heard me speak IRL (Vene and Torvus, for example) were surprised at how chill I really am. Text is deceiving.

2. Neph and I disagree on TOR chars often enough. I haven't beaten all of the class story lines so I tend to avoid really debating in favor of any but the SI who I have completed. Meanwhile, your non-TOR bias (or just dislike) is worn on your sleeve for all to see. If you expect other people to "rein it in", take that advice yourself.

3. HoT wins, with Barriss coaching her. 1. I am unafraid to get into 'madbro' mode; and did just now. Obviously.

2. I find your lack of PT/OT and Post-OT faith disturbing, check yo-self - fool.

3. Barris Offee is a PT character who got Force Repulse lol-stomped by Anakin no less, and HoT has no help in this thread. Not that Barris would make a difference here .

Anakin was one of the most proficient Force-wielding combatants in the mythos - he taught Galen Marek how to Force repulse and demonstrated mastery of Force repulse and Force wave in the PT era. He was the best master of TK of all the Skywalkers, had more of a knack for warfare tact than any of the Skywalkers - and as Cyborg Vader his revised defense was better than Obi-wan's.

Barris smacked Anakin with TK at one too though.

In all seriousness though... I think Zonakin beats HoT, tbh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Barris smacked Anakin with TK at one too though. You don't get to talk until you actually address my previous post's arguments - then and only then will you be ready to make a moot point like this.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
In all seriousness though... I think Zonakin beats HoT, tbh. So can a lot of PT and post-OT Jedi - as well Revan and Shan; despite Neph's attempts to blow this Jedi waaaaaaaAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAaaaaaay out of canonically demonstrable proportion.

Haha, is funny cuz Shan directly acknowledges inferiority to the HoT! Is good joke, no?!

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
FORMER DOLOS: I have reaffirmed my own bias by simply reasserting my own bias! I will now celebrate my complete and unshakable victory by declaring it as victory!

I also find it funny that you argue Zonakin as a viable fighter, when Zonakin is a "burst" of Anakin's full potential fueled by the Dark Side, and is not representative of his actual consistent ability. Again, if it was, he'd smear everyone into paste and conquer all.

I might as well claim Dopa-doped Barriss has Oneness with the Force and can do anything, or Zonazo Trace can move faster than anyone else in canon and therefore can beat Zonakin's face in five times before he can blink.

Your bias makes Terrorist Dooku angry:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5862/infideldookuattack8zu0qb.jpg

Dooku is a genie?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Haha, is funny cuz Shan directly acknowledges inferiority to the HoT! Is good joke, no?! What's the exact quote...you're probably blowing it out of proportion like the others.

Did she say, "I, the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, am inferior to you, oh king Hero of Tythoon. *bows in submission*"

Or did she say something liken to Obi-Wan's, "You're the most gifted Jedi I have ever met"; or Anakin's little; " as wise as Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu"?

Or was it HoT's master's little; "He's the most powerful Jedi I've seen in decades."

You see, you have a lot of statements - where are the feats to match Anakin's effortless disarmament of Dooku, a duelist who casually beats Obi-wan on many occasions, the Sith who stood toe to toe and escaped from Yoda twice, the Sith who effortlessly suspended Quinlan Vos in a TK hold....?

Originally posted by Oneness
Well good for them....

You still don't get it, those are meaningless statements, they can be construed as hyperbole, references to potential yet unreached, attempts to give confidence, etc etc etc.

Zonakin still has better feats, and needs no hyperbole - which he has plenty of in the ROTS novel.

You're not attempting to give any feats at all. You've merely dodged the bullet by giving statement and unjustifiably implying power-levels like SW is DBZ and the one who beats the other is better AND more powerful - like defeating a weakened Sorc-type Vitiate with the aid of a droid means ANYTHING. Nothing in your respect thread demands the kind of wanking your give this unnamed, as of yet to be gendered, character.

I don't get how its meaningless when a character directly says she's not as good as another one. You'd think she'd be able to tell. It isn't hyperbole (I do not think that word means what you think it means), its says "You ARE our blah", not you will be so its not about potential and that wouldn't give the Hero confidence. This is said right after Vitiate owned the Hero and 3 other Jedi. If I'd heard that I was the best they had after that I'd feel pretty fvcked myself. Also if she really was greater than the Hero, SHE would be saving the galaxy and fighting Vitiate, not them.

Anyway, I haven't actually said the Hero can beat Zonakin, have I? You just wandered in and assumed, before mouthing off half-cocked.

I haven't actually started arguing yet. When I actually see you as worth it, maybe I'll bust out some feats and put some effort in. As is, I think I'll just nitpick your dumb post on the first page. Tomorrow.

First of all, statements ARE meaningless. For God's sake the ROTS narrator says that Anakin is the fastest, strongest, greatest warrior, most powerful Force wielder, bestest pilot, smartest, most handsomest and popular Jedi and everyone knows it.

What feats put HoT above MALGUS????

Malgus has demonstrated better TK than all but NJO Luke Skywalker, what with building-busting. That's a feat. He's demonstrated Force lightning on par with Nyriss as well - he cut down every Jedi he fought in lightsaber combat. Then a younger, less experienced Shan goes toe to toe with him, and with the help of a Republic Commander she BEATS him!

Oh, I apologize, before you start arguing with me you should state your dang thesis;

So do you think that if Anakin was as pissed and focused as he was when he effortless SLAUGHTERED Dooku, was to engage The Hero of Tythoon, the Hero of Tythoon would win???

If not, don't even bother. If so, you crazy.

Third, you're ****ing pissing with your stupid superiority complex, like you're the ****ing princess of the SW Vs Forum of KMC like "I might debate you if I think you're worth my time inferior member, uugggh."

Shut up.

Oneness, you seriously need to learn something of self control. Seriously, you're the only one ranting here and everywhere else.

Anyways, as I've said a few times in the past, I think this whole Zonakin thing has been blown way out of proportion. I think the RotS novel pretty neatly described it in the simplicity of Anakin fighting with his fury, dancing with the Dark Side so to speak. What made a greater effect than usual against Dooku's other fights with him was also explained as Anakin until this point blanketing his rage with "a wall of dread". Zonakin is really not as big of a deal as people seem to make it up to be in my personal opinion. The whole thing about Dooku being "already dead" and his mastery of the force being "a joke" is a far more hyperbolic phenomenon than Satele saying the Hero of Tython is the greatest warrior of the Jedi, regardless.

Still, I find it probable Anakin still would win this, albeit not easily.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Dooku is a genie?

That's a turban.

Dolos, srsly bro.

http://images.wikia.com/cardfight/images/5/55/Go-home-youre-drunk.jpg

Saying KMC and other people are your personal therapy and then you act like a moron just makes others use you as a valid reason for legalizing adult abortion. Go play in traffic now like a good boy.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Oneness, you seriously need to learn something of self control. Seriously, you're the only one ranting here and everywhere else.

Anyways, as I've said a few times in the past, I think this whole Zonakin thing has been blown way out of proportion. I think the RotS novel pretty neatly described it in the simplicity of Anakin fighting with his fury, dancing with the Dark Side so to speak. What made a greater effect than usual against Dooku's other fights with him was also explained as Anakin until this point blanketing his rage with "a wall of dread". Zonakin is really not as big of a deal as people seem to make it up to be in my personal opinion. The whole thing about Dooku being "already dead" and his mastery of the force being "a joke" is a far more hyperbolic phenomenon than Satele saying the Hero of Tython is the greatest warrior of the Jedi, regardless.

Still, I find it probable Anakin still would win this, albeit not easily. Well said.

Spoken very soberly. 13

I'll assert that Anakin's boost in clarity and focus came from his rage - "a Jedi's strength flows from the Force", the Force told Luke when to fire the shot that, against unfathomable odds made it into the vents and destroyed the Death Star, as Plagueis says "the Force provides".

Anakin's rage opened up crystal clarity and greater physical prowess, prescient-reactionary maneuvers, and technique, the Force was effectively enhancing his abilities. This much was not Hyperbole - Luke states in the Manual for Jedi that form V depends on compassion for others, from a light side user's prerogative, but from Anakin's prerogative it is rage that enhanced his abilities against Dooku.

Rage enhanced Marek as well. But if rage cannot be savored, and harnessed, if rage makes one lose his wits, it can backfire, as it did with Obi-wan AND Anakin against Dooku (AoTC), and as it did with Obi-wan against Maul in TCW. This is what the application of Dun Moch is for.

Finally, Anakin's Force rage backfired against Obi-wan on Mustafar. The difference between Anakin's Force rage on the Invisible Hand against Dooku and his Force rage on Mustafar against Obi-wan, was that he was irrational, and it showed in his repeated tactile errs. It was the obvious errors that Anakin made that gave Obi-wan his victory.

You see normally, Anakin is a better tactical fighter than Obi-wan - but not when he's "emotionally compromised" (#Spoooock)! This is also demonstrated when he tries to rush Dooku in AoTC.

Originally posted by Oneness
I'm abrasive and aware of it but remain abrasive because I'm online and can meltdown with getting into trouble. So you're an internet tough guy?

I'm anti-social, because I am a real life tough guy.

I speak my mind - and being social would be a tactical error.

Originally posted by Oneness
First of all, statements ARE meaningless. For God's sake the ROTS narrator says that Anakin is the fastest, strongest, greatest warrior, most powerful Force wielder, bestest pilot, smartest, most handsomest and popular Jedi and everyone knows it.
It said of "his generation" and "perhaps." It's about the same as "probably."

Originally posted by Oneness
I'm anti-social, because I am a real life tough guy.

I speak my mind - and being social would be a tactical error.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Internet_b6df65_1012659.jpg

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
http://images.wikia.com/cardfight/images/5/55/Go-home-youre-drunk.jpg

Saying KMC and other people are your personal therapy and then you act like a moron just makes others use you as a valid reason for legalizing adult abortion. Go play in traffic now like a good boy.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Internet_b6df65_1012659.jpg
You like old movies?

NO8zb5DG_gM

Ground hog day.

Wtf, Oneness? What have you against HoT? He's superior to Revan and Shan. He defeated Vitiate, for crying out loud. He has great feats and great accolades. Deal with it.

Anakin wins easily.

LOL, ares. No need to establish why?

Zonakin owned Dooku easily, and if we don't differentiate Zonakin with Mortakin, he should take HoT easily, too.

If we do differentiate, however, the fight would be a lot closer although I believe Zonakin would come out on top at the end.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
LOL, ares. No need to establish why?

Because he effortlessly tooled Dooku. That's something not even Yoda can do.

Originally posted by Oneness
First of all, statements ARE meaningless. For God's sake the ROTS narrator says that Anakin is the fastest, strongest, greatest warrior, most powerful Force wielder, bestest pilot, smartest, most handsomest and popular Jedi and everyone knows it.

No, they are not. Statements are important tools with which to gauge a combatants ability. Sometimes they are more useful than feats, since feats can be interpreted whilst if a statement is clear enough, its rock solid. Like in the case of Satele saying she's inferior to the HoT.

Now let me give you a break here, this alone does not mean that the Hero is above Satele in her prime.... since Satele makes it clear in the game that she is not in her prime at the moment: "I am not the warrior I once was." So you could still argue that a younger Satele is above the Hero.

HOWEVER. Satele saying that the Hero of Tython is the greatest warrior in the Order ALSO would put them above the Barsen'thor in this regard. And the Barsen'thor definitely is above any incarnation of Satele.

Originally posted by Oneness
What feats put HoT above MALGUS????

Malgus has demonstrated better TK than all but NJO Luke Skywalker, what with building-busting. That's a feat. He's demonstrated Force lightning on par with Nyriss as well - he cut down every Jedi he fought in lightsaber combat. Then a younger, less experienced Shan goes toe to toe with him, and with the help of a Republic Commander she BEATS him!

Well beating Vitiate for one thing. And Vitiate is above Malgus by quite a bit. If Vitiate couldn't overpower the Hero with lightning or TK, I don't see how Malgus would when Vitiate is above him in both respects by a healthy margin. You mention Nyriss level lightning, but Vitiates lightning was 'infinitely more powerful' than hers and the Hero still walked through it.

The Hero of Tython has 'unmatched lightsaber prowess' and 'unrivaled reflexes' and defeated Lord Scourge, who is above the Dark Council in terms of ability and has killed over a thousand extremely powerful Jedi and Sith. They defeated the Jedi of the Strike Team against Vitiate, said to be the 'strongest' 'most powerful and most resolute Jedi in the Order.' They defeated Fulminis, who is said to have once annihilated a city with a Force Storm. They defeated Tol Braga, who once fought a Dark Council member for days before turning him to the lightside. They blocked Lord freaking Vitiates lightning and cut him down before ragdolling him if you choose the right option. The Hero consistently fights people on par with Malgus and defeats them.

(also Malgus didn't cut down every Jedi he faced in lightsaber combat i.e. Satele)

Originally posted by Oneness
Oh, I apologize, before you start arguing with me you should state your dang thesis;

So do you think that if Anakin was as pissed and focused as he was when he effortless SLAUGHTERED Dooku, was to engage The Hero of Tythoon, the Hero of Tythoon would win???

If not, don't even bother. If so, you crazy.

I don't know. Zonakin is extremely annoying to try to gauge. I see the Hero as Yoda level, but is Zonakin above Yoda? I'd say that this is a very close fight that I'd rather not call because of the nebulous nature of what we call Zonakin.

Originally posted by Oneness
Third, you're ****ing pissing with your stupid superiority complex, like you're the ****ing princess of the SW Vs Forum of KMC like "I might debate you if I think you're worth my time inferior member, uugggh."

Shut up.

I am the pretty princess of KMC.

1kYqnGkn5Ds

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, they are not. Statements are important tools with which to gauge a combatants ability. Sometimes they are more useful than feats, since feats can be interpreted whilst if a statement is clear enough, its rock solid. Like in the case of Satele saying she's inferior to the HoT.

Oh, so Obi-Wan was literally as powerful as Mace Windu? After all, character statements are better than feats.



Okay, whatever dudess. Lets agree to drop the whole character statements arguments cause you ain't proven shii with that shit.



Who!? Source?



A weakened Vitiate? That's all you got? Mmkay, Meetra almost killed him too. He sucks at lightsaber combat, and without his full power I don't see this as a reason to greatly exaggerate HoT's ability to win against anyone and everyone.

Luke beat a full power DE Sidious in a younger clone body. This is your only, and moot, feat.



Vitiate is as good in combat as Abeloth, maybe a little less powerful than Abeloth, but all he's got for combat is the Force. Malgus has a little something called skill.



DE Sidious couldn't overpower Luke with lightning or TK, so I guess Luke was stronger in the Force at that point in time.



Not when Vitiate is weakened, Malgus, Shan, and Revan could **** his shit up too.



Hyperbole, though it probably was stronger by a full margin. Only difference is the example your using depicts an unweakened Tenebrae, as opposed to the weakened one in which Hero defeated.



Impressive, but that's no excuse to wank about the Hero now thered princess.



Source? That's like 1 Jedi per year between TOR: Revan and TOR.



Who are they? The singular Scourge?



Hyperbole, Darth Bane (POD) and Sidious (Visionaries) summoned Force storms as well. Along with many others; doesn't make Fulminis some unbeatable combatant. He may have had help like Bane did. This is an unquantifiable feat. Sure, Fulminis may be a good sorc - but Force storm =/= combat prowess.



Endurance =/= combat prowess - they could have been fighting like slow exhausted pansies for all we know. Again, is Scourge a plural group or a singular individual?



=/=canon.



Like who, Scourge!?



Did Scourge ever fight Satele? Wait, are you claiming Scourge>>>Malgus!? ***** please.



Well Zonakin is Force rage Anakin who has his wits about him - and unafraid to tap into everything he's got - unlike Mustafar Vader.

Vader could have regenerated himself, but lacked the rage to see it through. He repaired his lungs in his meditation chamber, but the joy of fixing his lungs prevented him from seeing the healing process through to completion, and they soon deteriorated again.

Lumiya stated that Vader's only link to the living was the Emperor and Sidious believed that Vader could still unlock his full potential and destroy the Emperor and Lucas himself claimed that Vader could have been twice as powerful as Sidious, but after Mustafar he remained at only 80% . Vader himself couldn't except what he had become, which was why he was afraid to tap into everything he had.



Baaaaaaaa hahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Not quite, he beat Dooku far more easily than Yoda but Yoda is very small, and can't anatomically fight like Anakin with his high-octane Djem So. As far as Force power untapped Yoda was better, but as far as skill Anakin was better. If they were to battle each other Yoda might get the upper hand; yet Head to Head states Cyborg Vader's defense would be very tough on ESB Yoda - it allowed him to stalemate the superior clone of Galen Marek, and Vader is 80% of Sidious in the Force. Though, Yoda as of ROTS would defeat Vader more easily than he did Dooku on Vjun for sure.

So no, but Zonakin is very close to Yoda in terms of combat prowess.



It's really not that nebulous? mysterious.



Absolutely.

I'll get to the rest after I've played TOR for a bit but:

Originally posted by Oneness
Who!? Source?

Read here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I assume you're talking about Revan? Obviously since the Hero comes after Revan that quote wouldn't apply to her. She wasn't a member of the order at the time that fight took place

I was talking about the HoTy.



My point is character and narrative statements are all <feats.



Yea, where are the feats that put the Hero above Malgus, Revan and Shan though???



Luke had instant lightsaber form mimicry and the shatterpoint charism ; Anakin was the most gifted master of Djem So Dooku had ever seen - and a better tactician than Obi-wan (as demonstrated throughout the Clone Wars).



Doesn't mean much.



Well I have to concede that your proved me wrong there; however my point is still no less accurate, many non-Force sensitives - with zero strength in the Force, can defeat Jedi and Sith because they are better fighters. Look at the Mandalorians. Same thing goes for HoTy and the weakened Vitiate, Luke and FP DE II young clone resurrected Sids.



That's what I just said. That doesn't make him a better or more skilled combatant than Luke or lil orphan Ani.



Agreed.



Just like Nihilus - who went on to hone his Force drain ability; and utilized it far more devastatingly than Vitiate on his own (despite his inability to use to heal his corrupted flesh) and has better TK feats than Vitiate.



Not really, she battled the Ones on Mortis to a stalemate for quite sometime, proving that he power alone is sufficient to hold her own against three beings that trashed three powerful Jedi and could grab and deactivate lightsaber blades with their bare hands. Abeloth did beat Luke more times than Luke beat Abeloth, and she was weakened in their final encounter, the third time Luke one WITH HELP from Darth Krayt.



Vitiate being a poor lightsaber combatant, and being weakened in the Force, are the important facts here here.



Because you can't, because you blow that scenario out of proportion, etc.



"Concession accepted", as they say.

Who coined that universal vs forum term, btw?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Read here.

You expect me to read through that to see exactly where it is demonstrated that she is more capable in combat than Satele and Malgus???

I read a few of those quotes, and read a few of the feats shown in the videos, nothing from that game indicates that she's above Nomi Sunrider, much less Shan or Malgus!

Unless you want to give me a specific feat where she annihilates huge buildings or where she defeats Malgus like a younger, less experienced Shan did.

Originally posted by Oneness

"Concession accepted", as they say.

Who coined that universal vs forum term, btw?

I did.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I did. Props.

The novel Revan takes place three hundred years before TOR, Scourge is one person, and 'their' is sometimes used as a gender neutral designation when real gender is undetermined.

Have you played any of the Old Republic games from KotOR to TOR or read the books and comics relating to the era? You shouldn't argue from ignorance and assume to convince someone else.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Have you played any of the Old Republic games from KotOR to TOR

I prefer novels to games but I have played all three - and I've seen many of the videos.



I don't plan on spending a fortune on the comic series; unless there's an omnibus that collects a great deal of issues - wish the was one for dark horse' Clone Wars.

I read Revan.



I'm not - Neph greatly exaggerates and misconstrues the feats of the TOR Era.

Like you did with Ragnos, tell me, based on Omnibus: ToTJ part 1, do you consider Ragnos to be more powerful than ROTS Sidious, Force-wise??

Originally posted by Oneness
Oh, so Obi-Wan was literally as powerful as Mace Windu? After all, character statements are better than feats.

I said in some cases, loooooser! Not in all of them. Anakin was clearly talking out of his ass in that case and we have evidence to prove it. Sure, character statements can be wrong, but we'd need an actual reason to say they are. In the case of Hero > Satele, we do not have any reason to doubt her in her statement. Many people agree with her. Its pretty rock solid.

Originally posted by Oneness
Who!? Source?

You are so annoying. Here, just read these bits:

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lifts and throws a large chunk of metal

Z5IwR52UPB4

4.30. As I've said earlier that chunk its pretty damn huge. About the size of a school bus and appears to be solid metal. I estimate it to weigh a few hundred tons. Extremely impressive for how easily she throws it and how far.

Smashes through a huge blast door.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/30f33c05a03920427cccee1290d51490/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o1_500.png

http://25.media.tumblr.com/987fe392f1ff526beec47ae6dbc1d448/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o2_500.png

Its in the same video as the one above, but at 11.35. As I've said in the past, that door is ****ing huge and thick. And the Consular busts through it with one hand, bending it like play dough.

Tanked an explosion that destroyed a blast door.

sjciPHddNok

9.30. The Consular is forced to get through a blast door by striking some explosive barrels with her lightsaber. The explosion consumes the door completely, but the Consular is unharmed. An amazing feat of defense. Also those of you who would argue gameplay, having to do this is written in the quest text and the barrels are the only way to get through.

Lord Vivicar

Vivicar is really a Jedi Knight called Parkanus, who was possessed by the spirit of the ancient Sith Lord Morrhage. Morrhage was a powerful Sith Lord, a threat to the entire Jedi Order while he was alive through the use of his plague, infecting Masters throughout the galaxy and in death he was able to defeat a team of 6 Jedi Knights, almost consuming them with his powers. According to SWTORE he possesses 'terrifying power'. In the game he displays this, able to heal the near fatally wounded Leranna, able to dominate hundreds of Republic troops (Permanently. Even after his defeat they fight for him) and enhance them with alchemy and able to overwhelm the mind and power of Yuon Par and use her as a puppet to fight the Consular. He was also able to infect hundreds of Jedi Masters across the galaxy with his plague. Its clear that he was a badass in his own right, extremely powerful.

Now what's more is his plague and this is where it gets truly legendary. His plague does not just weaken and kill the masters and drive them insane, but also siphons power from them that Vivicar can channel with the proper rituals. Which he performs before the fight. And bare in mind that Vivicar had infected HUNDREDS of Jedi Masters.

Finally recall that the Consular has been vastly weakening herself through saving the Jedi Masters AND had to fight through his capital ship filled with soldiers to get to him.

And she still defeats him.

In my opinion, this is one of the greatest feats any Jedi has ever performed in the entire mythos.

The Barsen'thor has also smashed through a Rakatan blast door that was said to be 'impregnable' and defeated the First Son, a being empowered by Vitiate and powerful enough to shield hundreds of powerful Sith across the galaxy from detection by the Jedi.

The Barsen'thor is legit one of the greatest Jedi OF ALL TIME.

Originally posted by Oneness
A weakened Vitiate? That's all you got? Mmkay, Meetra almost killed him too. He sucks at lightsaber combat, and without his full power I don't see this as a reason to greatly exaggerate HoT's ability to win against anyone and everyone.

Luke beat a full power DE Sidious in a younger clone body. This is your only, and moot, feat.

Vitiate was standing in the Dark Temple, and extremely powerful darksde nexus, the Hero had to fight through the toughest bodyguards in the galaxy to get to him and weakened herself in saving an ally, on top of being weakened by the dark energy of the temple. They were equal going into the fight.

Meetra almost killed him with a surprise attack, the Hero beat him in direct combat. Irrelevant point.

Originally posted by Oneness
Vitiate is as good in combat as Abeloth, maybe a little less powerful than Abeloth, but all he's got for combat is the Force. Malgus has a little something called skill.

Malgus would get his skin peeled off and shoved up his ass by Vitiate. Also Vitiate has skill too. The guy defeated a Sith Lord and took over a planet at age 12. Plus given his experience and vaaaast darkside knowledge, I'd say he's got more skill than Malgus does. Sure, Malgus is the better duelist, but Vitiate vastly outstrips hi in the use of the Force.

Originally posted by Oneness
DE Sidious couldn't overpower Luke with lightning or TK, so I guess Luke was stronger in the Force at that point in time.

Well, he did beat him.

I'm just making the point that Malgus isn't going to achieve anything with his TK and lightning when even Vitiate couldn't against the Hero.

Originally posted by Oneness
Not when Vitiate is weakened, Malgus, Shan, and Revan could **** his shit up too.

No, they couldn't.

He'd still just dominate their minds.

(other than Revan, but lets face it Revan would still lose in the same situation as the Hero)

Originally posted by Oneness
Hyperbole, though it probably was stronger by a full margin. Only difference is the example your using depicts an unweakened Tenebrae, as opposed to the weakened one in which Hero defeated.

Even if it is hyperbole, the obvious intent of the statement is to indicate huge superiority to Nyriss as you say. Also Vitiate was a) on a strong(er) darkside nexus and b) much stronger than he was as of Revan when he faced the Hero, weakened or not.

Originally posted by Oneness
Impressive, but that's no excuse to wank about the Hero now thered princess.

It is impressive. The Hero is more skilled and faster than Satele.

Originally posted by Oneness
Source? That's like 1 Jedi per year between TOR: Revan and TOR.

Here. And no, theres only 300 years between Revan and TOR so its more like 4 a year. And bare in mind that the Encyclopedia says that Scourge is only sent after extremely powerful Jedi and Sith, so these aren't weak mooks.

Originally posted by Oneness
Who are they? The singular Scourge?

Warren Sedoru and Leeha Narez. The Jedi who accompany the Hero and Tol Braga in attacking the Emperor. They were turned to the darkside by Vitiate and the Hero is forced to defeat them. They are stated to be among the most powerful Jedi alive at the time.

Originally posted by Oneness
Hyperbole, Darth Bane (POD) and Sidious (Visionaries) summoned Force storms as well. Along with many others; doesn't make Fulminis some unbeatable combatant. He may have had help like Bane did. This is an unquantifiable feat. Sure, Fulminis may be a good sorc - but Force storm =/= combat prowess.

It isn't hyperbole. It says in his codex entry that hes said to have once destroyed an entire city with 'a raging storm of pure Force energy.' He's the Empires foremost expert on exterminating entire worlds. He was also so skilled as a Sorcerer that members of the Dark Council would PAY him for his darkside knowledge. He was able to drive even Sith Lords and Voss Mystics to gibbering madness before he learned the Voss ritual of healing and corrupted it to increase his powers of madness. The fact is that Fulminiss is an incredible Sith and the Hero beat his ass.

And you can use Force Storm in combat. Thanaton does.

Originally posted by Oneness
Endurance =/= combat prowess - they could have been fighting like slow exhausted pansies for all we know. Again, is Scourge a plural group or a singular individual?

Its takes force energy to fight, so it would indicate a massive amount of energy to keep fighting for that long as well as a huge amount of skill to keep fighting without slipping up. Its a hugely impressive feat. Besides, Tol Braga was also included in the quote about being one of the strongest Jedi in the Order and was a Jedi Council member.

Scourge is a single guy. The Hero beats him in Act II. You said you've read Revan, right? That Scourge from that book. The guy who kills Meetra.

Originally posted by Oneness
=/=canon.

Its unknown if its canon or not.

Originally posted by Oneness
Like who, Scourge!?

Scourge, Fulminis, Tol Braga, Vitiate.

Originally posted by Oneness
Did Scourge ever fight Satele? Wait, are you claiming Scourge>>>Malgus!? ***** please.

Wtf? Why are you so hung up on Scourge? No, I was pointing out that you're wrong about Malgus cutting down every Jedi he faced since he fought Satele twice and didn't cut her down both times.

Originally posted by Oneness
Well Zonakin is Force rage Anakin who has his wits about him - and unafraid to tap into everything he's got - unlike Mustafar Vader.

Vader could have regenerated himself, but lacked the rage to see it through. He repaired his lungs in his meditation chamber, but the joy of fixing his lungs prevented him from seeing the healing process through to completion, and they soon deteriorated again.

Lumiya stated that Vader's only link to the living was the Emperor and Sidious believed that Vader could still unlock his full potential and destroy the Emperor and Lucas himself claimed that Vader could have been twice as powerful as Sidious, but after Mustafar he remained at only 80% . Vader himself couldn't except what he had become, which was why he was afraid to tap into everything he had.

Sorry, what was the point of all that?

Zonakin remains difficult to place in terms of ability.

Originally posted by Oneness
Baaaaaaaa hahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Many agree with me. My arguments have convinced several here. Most people now put the Hero at around Yoda's level.

Originally posted by Oneness
Not quite, he beat Dooku far more easily than Yoda but Yoda is very small, and can't anatomically fight like Anakin with his high-octane Djem So. As far as Force power untapped Yoda was better, but as far as skill Anakin was better. If they were to battle each other Yoda might get the upper hand; yet Head to Head states Cyborg Vader's defense would be very tough on ESB Yoda - it allowed him to stalemate the superior clone of Galen Marek, and Vader is 80% of Sidious in the Force. Though, Yoda as of ROTS would defeat Vader more easily than he did Dooku on Vjun for sure.

So no, but Zonakin is very close to Yoda in terms of combat prowess.

I agree, which is why I'm having difficulty deciding who would win this fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I said in some cases, loooooser! Not in all of them. Anakin was clearly talking out of his ass in that case and we have evidence to prove it. Sure, character statements can be wrong, but we'd need an actual reason to say they are. In the case of Hero > Satele, we do not have any reason to doubt her in her statement. Many people agree with her. Its pretty rock solid.

In no cases should a statement like that, especially when she says "greatest" and not "most powerful"; should be taken over feats what-so-ever. If a bunch of quotes affirming such a statement should consolidate one being "more powerful" which is a meaningless and loose term; Sidious is "more powerful" than Vitiate or Nihilus.



I'm annoying you? Awesome, at least someone is bothering to point out your obvious disregard for reason.



Whoopie - Vader tore apart a blast door with pure TK, did not need to Force grip a projectile in Purge. That's really one of Vader's mediocre feats. If you want to use game mechanics then play the first part of TFU; as Vader you get to kamehameha wave through a giant 50 foot tall Wookiee gate.



That's not even a combat-applicable Force ability - well, apart from stealth but why is beating First Son>beating Malgus??



Galen Marek tops that.



We don't know if Vitiate was being honest about that statement, or by how much that ordeal weakened him during the fight.



And Vitiate sucks at fighting.



Moot point, huh?



Scourge stabbed Meetra in the back as she was preparing to engage Vitiate.

You're a hypocrite.



Not a weakened Vitiate, he'd decimate a weakened Vitiate.



By stripping him of his sanity with some esoteric power, not a in a straight duel.

By that reckoning, if he faced Hero at full power a second time, he'd just suppress his thought like he did the Jedi strike team.



Yet Vitiate was weakened when he fought Hero.



Vitiate was weakened, if his battle with Revan and the dark councils are any indication, one can make the argument he was way more weakened than Hero. There's no counter argument to that because we don't know how weakened either of them were, or if Hero was even weakened.



Source?



Source?

He'd still just dominate their minds.

Source.



Source?

We don't know how weakened Vitiate was - there's no statement about who was more weakened in that battle.



Even if it is hyperbole, the obvious intent of the statement is to indicate huge superiority to Nyriss as you say. Also Vitiate was a) on a strong(er) darkside nexus and b) much stronger than he was as of Revan when he faced the Hero, weakened or not.

Which was why he "Abelothed" them without a lightsaber.



Faster??? Where's your source?



I'm pretty sure Grevious killed dozens and dozens of Jedi, and he doesn't even the Force.

If fricken Darth Maul had lived that long he could have killed as many Jedi and Sith. Maul and Opress did slaughter scores of Jedi wholesale.

How do you know that what Scourge considers "extremely" powerful isn't a weak mook compared to, say, Dooku???



Where in the name of God is this stated, anyway?

Yes, beating Scourge is impressive, doesn't put Hero above Malgus, who has a waaaaaaaay better TK feat (building buster) than Barsen-thor's one "Rakatan blast-door" feat.







Could the codex be exagerrating?? Did he have a Sith Amulet or Force augmenting crystal like the one Sadow used to destroy stars?? Did he do it alone??

DE Sidious summoned rifts in space time that the DE Sourcebook stated could rip the crust off of planets (probably hyperbole as well) and were shown to absorb fleets of Star Destroyers. Didn't do him much good in an actual llightsaber duel.





Is this also from the codex entry. What does any of this have to with him being a powerful warrior? General Grevious might could beat him in a lightsaber duel for all we know.



But could Fulminis?



As is your whole misconception of Hero's super-powerful >Vitiate Force abilities.







You're the one who just claimed fricken Scourge, and even fricken Fulminis and Tol Braga, was more powerful than Satele Shan.



Perhaps Satele was to Hero as Yoda was to ROTS Anakin. Did you ever consider that!?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sorry, what was the point of all that?

To state that EP. III Anakin was just about as powerful as ROTS Sidious and Yoda when using Force rage, and a better warrior than either of them when he has his wits about him - that is the sum of Zonakin, slightly stronger than Vader who's 80% of Sidious - except more agile and almost as tactically inclined.



I'd place him above every PT + OT character except Sidious and Yoda.



Neither Malgus nor Hero have anything that even begins to compare to Yoda's TK feat of destroying multiple carriers - each almost size of a the separatist capital ships - against their engines in Clone Wars.

Yoda hardly ever needed to duel the Sith he encountered (save Dooku and Sidious) he effortlessly disarmed Asajj Ventress in TCW: Ambush with TK - and claimed in Book of Sith that it's more impressive to win a battle without harming the opponent than otherwise.



It's not just this fight, though, you hide behind the obscurity of the character, just because he "could be" this powerful he is - and so you go on to ignore anyone who tries to argue that Revan, Satele, Malgus, etc might actually beat him - and that he's definately without a doubt a match for ****ing goddamn NJO Luke and Yoda and that he was for sure just as weakened as Vitiate based on NOTHING.

You might want to fix that first reply. And you missed a bunch of Barsen'thor feats in that reply.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You might want to fix that first reply.

Can't edit after 15 minutes.

No I didn't, none of them really prove that she's more powerful than Satele or Malgus among dozens of other Jedi and Sith I could name off the top of my head. None of them prove she wasn't either.

This is what you can't comprehend, you lack what's known as conclusive, undeniable evidence - and you just don't care, you put Hero as high as possible. I do not lack conclusive evidence when I place Zonakin above all PT-exclusive era characters save Sidious and Yoda.

The things the Barsen'thor pulls off are superior to the things Satele has. I lack evidence? I have a whole respect thread full of evidence. How about a comparison?

Satele shattering a blast door:

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111023052413/starwars/images/6/6f/Shannerpoint.jpg

The Barsen'thor butt****ing a much more massive one:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/30f33c05a03920427cccee1290d51490/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o1_500.png

http://25.media.tumblr.com/987fe392f1ff526beec47ae6dbc1d448/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o2_500.png

and later smashed through an impregnable Rakatan vault door:

Eq20CHOKX8w

27.25.

The Barsenthor throwing a bus-sized chunk of metal with ease:

Z5IwR52UPB4

4.30.

Satele blocking a lightsaber is impressive, but the Barsen'thor blocked an explosion that demolished a blast door at point blank range:

sjciPHddNok

9.30.

Satele needed Jace Malcoms help to defeat a wounded Malgus, whereas the Barsen'thor defeated an ancient Sith Lord who was draining power from HUNDREDS of powerful Jedi Masters, while she was heavily weakened.

You shouldn't be asking me what puts the Barsen'thor on Sateles level, I should be asking you wtf you're smoking to put Satele on the Barsen'thors level.

Originally posted by Oneness
I prefer novels to games but I have played all three - and I've seen many of the videos.

Played is one thing. Level of immersion in the material is another. Did you beat each of them? How many class quests did you complete in TOR? There's a LOT of lore in TOR and even Neph hasn't seen it all.



I think there's a site with them all. Earlier I posted a Russian site that has most of the books and other comics.



And you haven't done such?



I think Ragnos is probably more powerful than RotS Sidious because of several reasons, such as:

* He's head and shoulders above Sith Lords who possess incredible knowledge and power in the Force, from Simus who could live as a mere head to Sadow who can conquer the Republic with his illusions and built a Force powered starship that can chuck star cores, Vitiate who dominated his entire planet before he needed to shave for the first time, and Kressh who comes from one of the most powerful Sith dynasties of the era and can crush eight to ten foot statues with a clench of his fist. He was undefeated ruled utterly for over a century.

* His staff, one artifact attributed to his knowledge of the Force, can drain entire planets of the Force and wreck temples.

* He keeps a pet in his tomb that pretty much killed every Sith who approached it but him for thousands of years. The Sith Warrior finally defeats it in TOR. I've posted a screenie showing its massive size.

* Ragnos is acknowledged as the leader of the Sith spirits who crown Exar and Ulic, and IIRC he was head of the Korriban sith spirits who spoke with Palpatine early in his career.

* His codex entry reinforces his cunning and power in retrospect.

Now, none of these are binding absolutes. I sometimes ham up the idea that I revere the character more to play into perceptions already created about me (and because I enjoy being ridiculous when it suits me), but I don't say Ragnos is absolutely better than anyone without proper combat to analyze. Implicity, he's up there. I think Nihilus and Vitiate are legitimate contenders in the Sith arena, and DE Sidious, but not RotS Sidious. Again, Ragnos' vassals were beings of immense augmented power and with a knowledge of the Force PT era Sith would be thrilled to pillage because of such. Sidious himself admits to the knowledge of Sadow and Kun benefits from what little Sadow could stuff in his ship and accomplish in Exile. Nadd took Sadow's limited teachings and conquered a world and established a Sith dynasty. Ragnos controlled many Sith Lords who in turn owned many planets in the Sith Empire. Only Vitiate has ruled more dangerous vassals by virtue of his cunning and power.

You recall how Sidious is definitively better than his apprentices? Maul and Savage are fleas to him, and Ventress likewise. Dooku, himself an impressive Jedi master, is still inferior and Sidious isn't threatened. His greater Dark Side knowledge allows him to comfortably manipulate the Count.

Now image Ragnos sitting on his throne with apprentices of greater power, along with Sith Lords who exist unrelated to him and pursue their own interests, and Sith openly kill for the throne (open dueling is actually a Sith tradition, even if assassination still exists and is used). Only person who lived after dueling Ragnos was Simus, who was left alive as an example and allowed to serve as an advisor.

Now tell me you expect this guy to get TK'd over his desk or run from Yoda.

No, I haven't ever blown TOR era characters out of proportion, Moose.

To both of you about Barsen'Thor and Marka Ragnos;

None of those feats or 'power-scale theories' prove, beyond a shadow of doubt, that Barsen'Thor>Satele Shan and Marka Ragnos>Sidious - and neither disprove it either. There's a propensity to just say, "they could be more powerful, so they are" because they "have more wizardly Force abilities" that makes them automatically able to win in a fight. I disagree entirely, the Force did Grevious' victims a lot of good. Sidious' mastery of sorcery did him a lot of good in his battle with Luke on the Eclipse II. Mhm.

What we have here is biasm toward the TOR era.

I find the collective lack of faith in the PT/OT on this forum, disturbing.

Lol, what a pathetic cop-out. Coward.

Also Satele and Malgus are from the TOR era. The PT/OT has nothing to do with this.

I'm sitting, watching...and laughing at the notion of Satele>>Barsen/HoT.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Satele and Malgus are from the TOR era.That shows just how stupid your assumptions are - when there's nothing that concretely demonstrates that Barsen'Thor's and Scourge's feats can't be surpassed by Satele and Malgus - or that the opponents they beat are better.

Just because one has more TK feats than the other, or one has an ability that the other doesn't they automatically win in a fight. You can't prove anything, all you can do is say, "well I like this one more". And that's all you've been doing.

This is an MMO that is all over the ****ing place. It's gotten way worse since TOTJ and Kotor. There needs to be more discretion, imo.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm sitting, watching...and laughing at the notion of Satele>>Barsen/HoT.

I think this ">" should stop being used as well. It's as loose a term as 'more powerful'. Shaak Tii is more powerful than Grevious, and Grevious could probably still beat her.

TOR has become a cluster**** of inaccuracies in this vs forum, I'm dignified that the PT era EU hasn't been sullied in such a way, we should keep them separated.

You ignorant little snots.

Lmao, you hypocrite. You were the one screaming for feats on the page 2, remember?

"What feats put HoT above MALGUS????

Malgus has demonstrated better TK than all but NJO Luke Skywalker, what with building-busting. That's a feat. He's demonstrated Force lightning on par with Nyriss as well - he cut down every Jedi he fought in lightsaber combat. Then a younger, less experienced Shan goes toe to toe with him, and with the help of a Republic Commander she BEATS him!"


I give you plenty of feats indicating that the Barsen'thor is above Satele, and you weasel around it by saying nothing concretely proves it. The Barsen'thor has superior TK to Satele, superior defensive ability and has defeated an opponent more powerful than a wounded Malgus. She's better than Shan in every respect but lightsaber ability.

The way we debate here is to compare feats and combat abilities. How else do you think we should decide how Satele vs Barsen'thor stacks up? Step up yo game fool!

Originally posted by Oneness
No, I haven't ever blown TOR era characters out of proportion, Moose.

Derp. You know what I meant: that you show bias towards your favored era which is PT/OT and write everything else off as inferior and largely not worth your time. Your unrivaled ignorance of much of EU outside of your scope of bias just drives this home.



1. This isn't an exact science and combatants don't have objective power levels that stack against each other in a simple fashion. That's why we make arguments and use the best conjecture we can with context and sources. There is no absolute power chart for EU, and the point of this sub forum is to argue some semblance of one if not establish relative tiers.

You like to hide behind disdain and absolute statements which favor your bias while pretending like comparable or better EU feats are irrelevant. This is confirmation bias.

2. I explicitly noted that Ragnos' relative power is entirely my opinion and that his standing is entirely implied since he is never shown in canon alive. Way to strawman.

You never answered me on how much you played, so concession accepted on your part of ignorance.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I give you plenty of feats indicating that the Barsen'thor is above Satele,

They don't prove anything - moreover they don't indicate anything either. As no TK feat from Barsen matches Malgus - who was forced into a collapsing mountain side by the grand Jedi master whom you so glibly assert has less power in the Force than Barsen'Thor - not even close, cur.



They're don't even stack up to Marek's Star Destroyer feat. Vader was demonstrated as having the ability to take down Galen Marek in TFU II when he finally learns to utilize patience and defense, stalemating the more powerful Starkiller Clone.

"The" Barsen'Thor, "The" Scourge? Please use proper English, they aren't organizations, even if you wank them. No, neither Scourge no Barsen'Thor have TK feats that are proven to be above Satele's caliber. Oh? It's a larger blast door? So what!? The Grand Jedi Master shoved Malgus into a mountain side and made it explode and collapse upon him. That's before either Malgus or Satele reach their full potential. They have more indication of being at the top of the TOR era food-chain than Barseb'Thor and Hero. Though Revan comes close to their power levels - and Vitiate has a lot of power from his rituals - but most of his abilities, like in the case of Ragnos, are merely esoteric and don't mean too much against characters like Sidious, Moosey baby.



Nope.

Well that's not really a fair comparison, is it?

Kinda like the inaccurate comparison of weakened Vitiate loosing to a maybe-weakened Hero - glibly pulling them being equally weakened out of your ass to grasp at straws for a game you spend too much time on.



And power in the Force. But other than that, absolutely, superior in every way, except maybe any way that matters in a fight.



So quit blowing them out of proportion so as to deceive the TORetards.



I think all of you TOR people need to get your era together before challenging Anakin-Sidious-Yoda, or anyone else from the PT/OT era for that matter. Because we have that era's hierarchy figured out.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Derp. You know what I meant:

Now you know how it feels! This is what Neph does to throw me off my game, she acts thick.



Nope.



I'm supposed to be working on the Beal Conjecture by now to win 1 mill, and I haven't even finished the 2 quizzes that precede that work yet. I'm a little schedule because of this time your taking. It's going to stop after tonight. You can continue off arguing with my ghost.



Yet there's a generally accepted hierarchy about the PT era here, the wave of TOR-baised debaters are always conflicting between victors in the era; ya'll are tested fanatics, to put it delicately.



Yes.



Absolutely.



And Neph has ****ed that up more than Sw Legend and yourself, and I'm trying to smack some sense into her and you're just getting in the way.



Not really, are you using my counter examples for Hero's praise in TOR? I was trying to demonstrate how character statements are necessarily falsifiable and loosely indicative.



You are to me saying that these are opinionated comparisons: you have to understand I'm on a time budget and subvocalize as of now so I can't read at 2000 words per minute yet, I can only read as fast as I can talk, so I didn't have time to read over your post and I agree that I should have stuck to arguing with Neph, who only uses opinionated comparisons.



Time budget, not ignorance.

Originally posted by Oneness
In no cases should a statement like that, especially when she says "greatest" and not "most powerful"; should be taken over feats what-so-ever. If a bunch of quotes affirming such a statement should consolidate one being "more powerful" which is a meaningless and loose term; Sidious is "more powerful" than Vitiate or Nihilus.

Thats your opinion. I disagree. The statement has plenty of support behind it, so I see no reason to doubt it. Plus the Hero has the feats to back it up.

Originally posted by Oneness
I'm annoying you? Awesome, at least someone is bothering to point out your obvious disregard for reason.

No, I'm annoyed at your laziness. You'd think you could be bothered to spend 5 minutes reading a respect thread.

Originally posted by Oneness
Whoopie - Vader tore apart a blast door with pure TK, did not need to Force grip a projectile in Purge. That's really one of Vader's mediocre feats. If you want to use game mechanics then play the first part of TFU; as Vader you get to kamehameha wave through a giant 50 foot tall Wookiee gate.

Vader doing something doesn't mean it sucks. And that blast door was likely smaller and thiner than the one the Barsen'thor breaks through here:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/30f33c05a03920427cccee1290d51490/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o1_500.png

http://25.media.tumblr.com/987fe392f1ff526beec47ae6dbc1d448/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o2_500.png

fyi, the Barsen'thor does that right at the start of the game, so she's still developing her power and she does it after weakening herself performing the Shielding technique.

I'll also bet the blast door Vader broke through was smaller than the Vault Door Thor did.

Also, no I don't want to use game mechanics.

Originally posted by Oneness
That's not even a combat-applicable Force ability - well, apart from stealth but why is beating First Son>beating Malgus??

Its an indication of power. It takes a lot to shield Sith all over the galaxy from detection. Its a feat akin to what Sidious did to avoid the Jedi finding him, but on a much larger scale. Of course, I'm not saying the First Son is above Sidious, just comparing the two feats.

Satele only beat a wounded Malgus with the help of Jace Malcom and after she'd amped herself on absorbing a lot of energy from his lightsaber. The Barsen'thor by contrast beat the First Son directly after fighting 3 Children of the Emperor (very powerful Sith), two of them at once.

Originally posted by Oneness


I think Nomi Sunrider is a little better, tbh.

Nah.

Originally posted by Oneness
Galen Marek tops that.

Uh, what?

Originally posted by Oneness
We don't know if Vitiate was being honest about that statement, or by how much that ordeal weakened him during the fight.

Theres no reason to think he's lying and the Hero was also weakened by fighting through the Imperial Guard and Kaas City.

Originally posted by Oneness
And Vitiate sucks at fighting.

Vitiate easily defeated 4 of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy at the same time in the Knight storyline. He kicked your ladylove Revans ass. Twice he's defeated entire Dark Councils. Forgive me if I disagree with your assessment.

Originally posted by Oneness
Moot point, huh?

Yes, your point was completely moot. The two situations have nothing in common.

Originally posted by Oneness
Scourge stabbed Meetra in the back as she was preparing to engage Vitiate.

You're a hypocrite.

No, I was just reminding you who he was, not trying to use that as an argument in Scourges favor.

Originally posted by Oneness
Not a weakened Vitiate, he'd decimate a weakened Vitiate.

I reckon even a weakened Vitiate could take him.

Originally posted by Oneness
By stripping him of his sanity with some esoteric power, not a in a straight duel.

By that reckoning, if he faced Hero at full power a second time, he'd just suppress his thought like he did the Jedi strike team.

The Hero could resist Vitiates power when they fought in the Dark Temple. The reason why the Hero fights Vitiate with only T7 was because no-one else could resist Vitiates domination. Satele and Scourge both say that only the Hero has the power to resist Vitiate.

Originally posted by Oneness
Yet Vitiate was weakened when he fought Hero.

No shit.

Originally posted by Oneness
Vitiate was weakened, if his battle with Revan and the dark councils are any indication, one can make the argument he was way more weakened than Hero. There's no counter argument to that because we don't know how weakened either of them were, or if Hero was even weakened.

I'm not even bothering any more. This is just tedious. We're just repeating this over and over.

Originally posted by Oneness
Source?

2pwPRbwaT2A

Originally posted by Oneness
Source?

Source.

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred. The Emperor can wither and ruin even the strongest Jedi's connection to the light side.

Only the Hero of Tython and Revan can resist his influence.

Originally posted by Oneness
Source?

We don't know how weakened Vitiate was - there's no statement about who was more weakened in that battle.

Vitiate was also greatly amped by the Dark Temple and if we're talking the same situation, Revan would be weakened too. Plus Vitiate is much more powerful than he was when he fought Reavn, as SWTORE says that his force power is 'ever-increasing' and he drains Revan constantly after his capture.

Originally posted by Oneness
Faster??? Where's your source?

I was talking about 'unrivaled reflexes', though the Hero also has feats of blitzing powerful Sith Warriors.

Originally posted by Oneness
I'm pretty sure Grevious killed dozens and dozens of Jedi, and he doesn't even the Force.

If fricken Darth Maul had lived that long he could have killed as many Jedi and Sith. Maul and Opress did slaughter scores of Jedi wholesale.

How do you know that what Scourge considers "extremely" powerful isn't a weak mook compared to, say, Dooku???

Yeah, but they didn't kill that many, did they? It is one of the highest numbers of personal kills in the entire mythos. Thus his battle experience will be off the charts, as will his training, having 300 years worth of it (when in a mere 30 he mastered 3 lightsaber forms). Scourge is a complete badass.

It wasn't Scourge who decided on it, it was Vitiate remember? And with Vitiate, anyone who can actually gain his attention is pretty impressive.

Originally posted by Oneness
Where in the name of God is this stated, anyway?

Yes, beating Scourge is impressive, doesn't put Hero above Malgus, who has a waaaaaaaay better TK feat (building buster) than Barsen-thor's one "Rakatan blast-door" feat.

I-what? I said that. It's in the ecyclopedia. I said that it was in there.

"When a Jedi grew too powerful, or a Sith too ambitious, Scourge eliminated the threat.' - SWTORE pg. 94

Swtore also terms him the 'ultimate executioner'. In 300 years Vitiate found no-one superior to him.

Originally posted by Oneness


They are the 'strongest', 'most powerful and most resolute Jedi in the Order.' Included in that are: The Hero of Tython, Tol Braga, Leeha Neraz and Warren Sedoru.

Originally posted by Oneness
Could the codex be exagerrating?? Did he have a Sith Amulet or Force augmenting crystal like the one Sadow used to destroy stars?? Did he do it alone??

DE Sidious summoned rifts in space time that the DE Sourcebook stated could rip the crust off of planets (probably hyperbole as well) and were shown to absorb fleets of Star Destroyers. Didn't do him much good in an actual llightsaber duel.



No. Unknown, but likely not or he would have used it in the Voss missions. Those things would have come in real ****ing handy there. It says he destroyed it, no mention of others.

And DE Sidious is widely regarded as the most powerful Sith ever because he could do that.

Originally posted by Oneness
Is this also from the codex entry. What does any of this have to with him being a powerful warrior? General Grevious might could beat him in a lightsaber duel for all we know.

The part about the Dark Council paying for his darkside knowledge is. And it all speaks to his ability as a sorcerer. His powers of madness would be extremely useful in combat for instance.

Originally posted by Oneness
But could Fulminis?

Theres absolutely no reason why he wouldn't be able to do so. If he could summon one to destroy a city, its obvious he could do so on a smaller scale in a fight.

Originally posted by Oneness


Nice argument.

Originally posted by Oneness
Perhaps Satele was to Hero as Yoda was to ROTS Anakin. Did you ever consider that!?

I don't know what you mean.

Originally posted by Oneness
To state that EP. III Anakin was just about as powerful as ROTS Sidious and Yoda when using Force rage, and a better warrior than either of them when he has his wits about him - that is the sum of Zonakin, slightly stronger than Vader who's 80% of Sidious - except more agile and almost as tactically inclined.

So about equal to the Hero then?

Originally posted by Oneness
I'd place him above every PT + OT character except Sidious and Yoda.

So would I.

Originally posted by Oneness
Neither Malgus nor Hero have anything that even begins to compare to Yoda's TK feat of destroying multiple carriers - each almost size of a the separatist capital ships - against their engines in Clone Wars.

Yoda hardly ever needed to duel the Sith he encountered (save Dooku and Sidious) he effortlessly disarmed Asajj Ventress in TCW: Ambush with TK - and claimed in Book of Sith that it's more impressive to win a battle without harming the opponent than otherwise.

The Tartakovsky Clone Wars is heavily exaggerated. I wouldn't buy too much into what Yoda does in it. Its way above what he can usually do. This is the same material that had Rivi-Anu, a completely unknown padawan, hold up a Star destroyer long enough to evacuate an entire army.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7164/tothevanishingpoint6.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7216/tothevanishingpoint7y.jpg

You keep repeating the same fight, reposting the video, reposting the quotes, yet you're ignoring that fact that nothing states "Vitiate and Hero were just as weakened, and therefore they might as well have been at full power" like you have.

That feat is useless, stop using it. Drop it.

Clone Wars is exaggerated?

The whole ****ing pre- and post-pt era, the whole eu is exaggerated and expanded upon the films.

Try again.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So about equal to the Hero then? You're ahead of yourself, you don't even have the TOR hierarchy ordered correctly in that game-biased head of yours.

Bro, Clone Wars is massively exaggerated. According to that cartoon, Windu could have destroyed all the droids on Geonosis by himself.

Or hell, just get Force God Rivi-Anu to vaporise everything with laser eye-beams.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bro, Clone Wars is massively exaggerated. According to that cartoon, Windu could have destroyed all the droids on Geonosis by himself.

Or hell, just get Force God Rivi-Anu to vaporise everything with laser eye-beams. The same can be said for all the characters of TOR - you take articles from the internet (e-canon???), mix them with game scenes, and you think Clone Wars shouldn't be canon?

No, I won't give you that. Checkmate.

The 'articles from the internet' are just sites on which quotes from the game have been compiled. All the things I've posted come from the game or the encyclopedia.

If you can use statements and feats from game scenes I can use Clone Wars and anything else I want.

Vader is 80% Sidious. In the Empire at War series Sidious' regular old Force lightning (not Force storm) lights up the surface of a planet and kills thousands of Republic troops.

He slaughtered hundreds upon hundreds of armed Bothans for giving the Rebels the plans to the Death Star (referenced in ANH to affirm canon) by subjugating scores of them at once (like Vitiate), or by killing them with Force lightning and with his lightsaber.

Get the TOR hierarchy together.

Barsen-Thor and Hero have nothing that put them above the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, or below.

Scourge has nothing that puts him anywhere near Darth Malgus, for sure.

HoT blitzes Sith Lords, takes down Dark Council members regularly, is regarded as the Jedi's finest, the vanguard of the order, and the greatest warrior among it's ranks, collapses ceilings, and even defeats Vitiate on what is arguably the most powerful Dark Side Nexus in the galaxy. If you choose the Dark Side options, the Hero both ragdolls Vitiate and dominates the mind of Tol Braga--The former most resolute Jedi in the Order.

That's good enough to put him high tier for me. As for the Barsen, I put her above Satele for now, but I'd appreciate saber feats.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
HoT blitzes Sith Lords, takes down Dark Council members regularly, is regarded as the Jedi's finest, the vanguard of the order, and the greatest warrior among it's ranks, collapses ceilings, and even defeats Vitiate on what is arguably the most powerful Dark Side Nexus in the galaxy. If you choose the Dark Side options, the Hero both ragdolls Vitiate and dominates the mind of Tol Braga--The former most resolute Jedi in the Order.

That's good enough to put him high tier for me. As for the Barsen, I put her above Satele for now, but I'd appreciate saber feats. *points to door* Get out.

Neph has already said all this, and quite frankly she has enough game scenes in her head to substitute for all of you - I will not repeat the same shit every-time a fanatic (not talking about you, Moose, your arguments are okay) comes into my thread - because Neph will just act dumb and repeat herself again. So anything I say is lost.

Get out.

Yes, HE has provided all of this, and you haven't countered any of it with anything but your raging, really.

I'm sorry New Guy, I know you know what you're talking about from previous threads, but read every post in a thread before posting.

You did not read every post in this thread, there's 4 pages. Come on now. Do you sub-vocalize?

These damn TOR arguments.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yes, HE has provided all of this, and you haven't countered any of it with anything but your raging, really.

Then why can't you just pick some quotes where I "attempted" to and quote them along with Neph??? Your different counter argument would be adding a fresh line of argument instead of making me repeat myself.

Why do you need me to repeat myself????

I don't see what you're saying about TOR arguments, when you're proposing Satele Shan to be superior to the Hero of Tython. She's also a character from the TOR era, is she not?

Unless you're referring to the arguments themselves, rather than how they're being argued. In which I would agree, TOR is a ridiculous and overdone part of the franchise that has spawned lots of diehard fans of characters like Vitiate.

Originally posted by Oneness
They don't prove anything - moreover they don't indicate anything either. As no TK feat from Barsen matches Malgus - who was forced into a collapsing mountain side by the grand Jedi master whom you so glibly assert has less power in the Force than Barsen'Thor - not even close, cur.



They're don't even stack up to Marek's Star Destroyer feat. Vader was demonstrated as having the ability to take down Galen Marek in TFU II when he finally learns to utilize patience and defense, stalemating the more powerful Starkiller Clone.

"The" Barsen'Thor, "The" Scourge? Please use proper English, they aren't organizations, even if you wank them. No, neither Scourge no Barsen'Thor have TK feats that are proven to be above Satele's caliber. Oh? It's a larger blast door? So what!? The Grand Jedi Master shoved Malgus into a mountain side and made it explode and collapse upon him. That's before either Malgus or Satele reach their full potential. They have more indication of being at the top of the TOR era food-chain than Barseb'Thor and Hero. Though Revan comes close to their power levels - and Vitiate has a lot of power from his rituals - but most of his abilities, like in the case of Ragnos, are merely esoteric and don't mean too much against characters like Sidious, Moosey baby.



Nope.

Well that's not really a fair comparison, is it?

Kinda like the inaccurate comparison of weakened Vitiate loosing to a maybe-weakened Hero - glibly pulling them being equally weakened out of your ass to grasp at straws for a game you spend too much time on.



And power in the Force. But other than that, absolutely, superior in every way, except maybe any way that matters in a fight.



So quit blowing them out of proportion so as to deceive the TORetards.



I think all of you TOR people need to get your era together before challenging Anakin-Sidious-Yoda, or anyone else from the PT/OT era for that matter. Because we have that era's hierarchy figured out.

Why don't you start here, New Guy, Neph never even looked at this, hoping it will disappear.

But it won't, it will never go away.

Originally posted by Oneness
Then why can't you just pick some quotes where I "attempted" to and quote them along with Neph??? Your different counter argument would be adding a fresh line of argument instead of making me repeat myself.

No real reason, I was just being a bit lazy. I'll have a response constructed in a few.

Good.

Originally posted by Oneness
If you can use statements and feats from game scenes I can use Clone Wars and anything else I want.

Vader is 80% Sidious. In the Empire at War series Sidious' regular old Force lightning (not Force storm) lights up the surface of a planet and kills thousands of Republic troops.

He slaughtered hundreds upon hundreds of armed Bothans for giving the Rebels the plans to the Death Star (referenced in ANH to affirm canon) by subjugating scores of them at once (like Vitiate), or by killing them with Force lightning and with his lightsaber.

Get the TOR hierarchy together.

Barsen-Thor and Hero have nothing that put them above the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, or below.

Scourge has nothing that puts him anywhere near Darth Malgus, for sure.

Someone else can take over from here. I need to get As and $s - I will never post on this website again. I stopped posting on lounge.moviecodec, I deactivated my facebook, I did away with my social life, now this website goes.

Bi#tch F#ckers.

Aw, I liked talking with you. Please don't leave. For me. :bats eyelids:

They don't prove anything - moreover they don't indicate anything either. As no TK feat from Barsen matches Malgus - who was forced into a collapsing mountain side by the grand Jedi master whom you so glibly assert has less power in the Force than Barsen'Thor - not even close, cur.

I wouldn't say that. It wasn't really a mountain, a cliff rather. Malgus's best TK feat involve blowing away the rubble from two building collapsed on him.

I'd personally find the Barsen'thor's to be well, better. As Neph has already provided, the plowing through of the durasteel blast door seems more impressive than that. The thing seems to be at least a meter thick.

Tearing through a several meter thick durasteel door made to contain blasts > blasting away a mountain of already disembled rubble, no? I do admit though, it's a very impressive feat on Malgus's part, and I'm not trying to downplay it.

They're don't even stack up to Marek's Star Destroyer feat. Vader was demonstrated as having the ability to take down Galen Marek in TFU II when he finally learns to utilize patience and defense, stalemating the more powerful Starkiller Clone.

But the novel describes that the only reason the battle was a stalemate is because Vader had sabotaged Starkiller's training, leaving him prone to his own fighting style.

However, it should also be noted that Vader had not reached his peak by this point, since there's lots of evidence suggesting he's grown both in skill and power considerably between ANH and ROTJ.

"The" Barsen'Thor, "The" Scourge? Please use proper English, they aren't organizations, even if you wank them.

"The" Lord Scourge is pretty silly, but it is grammatically correct to say "the" Barsen'thor. Since "Barsen'thor" isn't the character's name, it's a title within the Jedi Order for extraordinary Force Wielders.

No, neither Scourge no Barsen'Thor have TK feats that are proven to be above Satele's caliber. Oh? It's a larger blast door? So what!? The Grand Jedi Master shoved Malgus into a mountain side and made it explode and collapse upon him.

That was also done after absorbing the energies of a damn lightsaber. Halycon was able to do the same thing, actually--If you didn't know, she was a Jedi that couldn't even move a pebble with TK but was great at energy absorption. After absorbing the energies of a lightsaber, Halycon was able to convert that energy to send an extremely powerful wave of TK that has similar results to Satele's. I hope this clears things up.

That's before either Malgus or Satele reach their full potential. They have more indication of being at the top of the TOR era food-chain than Barseb'Thor and Hero. Though Revan comes close to their power levels - and Vitiate has a lot of power from his rituals - but most of his abilities, like in the case of Ragnos, are merely esoteric and don't mean too much against characters like Sidious, Moosey baby.

Malgus, yes, he improves quite a bit, and I myself believe it's very possible he's better than the Barsen'thor--Though I'm not sure if I can say the same about the Hero of Tython. Accolades and his Sith kills are an indication to him being at the peak of the TOR "food chain" if you ask me.

And I agree Revan isn't as powerful as many make him out to be. He's relatively unimpressive to others in his era. Vitiate, in my opinion, is still powerful without the need of preparation--However, I agree strongly that he'd still be floored by someone of Palpatine's caliber.

Kinda like the inaccurate comparison of weakened Vitiate loosing to a maybe-weakened Hero - glibly pulling them being equally weakened out of your ass to grasp at straws for a game you spend too much time on.

Well, not only had the Hero expended his energies on Dromund Kaas (According to Vitiate himself), but it's also in the codex or Scourge's word I believe that he allowed the Emperor to regather his energies in the canon LS option, and let's not forget that the Dark Temple is an extremely potent Dark Nexus. I do think it's fair to say the tables weren't exactly against Vitiate too much in that fight.

So quit blowing them out of proportion so as to deceive the TORetards.

I think all of you TOR people need to get your era together before challenging Anakin-Sidious-Yoda, or anyone else from the PT/OT era for that matter. Because we have that era's hierarchy figured out.

I agree, Anakin/Sidious/Yoda are more or less better than every Sith/Jedi from the TOR era, though guys like Obi-Wan are more than fair game. I would say, however, that the Hero of Tython or Vitiate could definitely pose a serious threat to them.

Wait, so I just spent half an hour constructing a response to appease a guy who just ragequit? That's anti-climatic.

I know. Thats just impolite.

And did I really say "The" Lord Scourge? I don't think I did? I'm fairly sure he misread me at some point. But it is "The" Barsen'thor since its a title, not a name as you said.

I love the way Dolos argues like it matters and then leaves. He reminds me of Sorgo but without the Dooku fanboyism.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
HoT

How do you find all of these old threads?

An bump.

Probably the search bar.