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Locations

1. Mortis Monolith
2. Abeloth's Planet
3. Base Prime
4. Plains of Naboo

How would this go in a free for all?

Team 1 looks like they have quite the edge in deflection abilities and possibly tanking.

I would go with Team 1 myself, other than on Mortis. I could argue that as the prophecised Champion of Light, the HoT would draw on Mortis, but I really doubt it would be close to the extent Anakin did.

Revan is the Heart of the Force, and Anakin is it's left shrivled testicle, so Team 1.

Team 1 in majority of the settings.

Team 2's only chance is in setting no. 1, if Anakin gets the chance to reach Mortakin moment.

However, it is possible that HoT and Revan can capitalize on the conditions of Mortis as well. Revan possessed the "balancing" talent and HoT was extremely talented as well.

What about in round #3? That place benefits both sith and jedi.

Team 2 easily wins.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Team 2 easily wins.
Prove it.

Revan is the weak link.

I'd put Anakin as the weak link myself. Either way this would be an epic fight.

Revan is the weak link?

He can compensate for his "presumably" lack of lightsaber mastery with his exceptional command of the Force. He is known to cut down Jedi level duelists very easily.

Caedus>Malgus
Anakin>Revan

The Hero of Tython can probably/maybe beat Krayt, but considering the rest of his team is getting pounded, he's not going to carry TOR to victory.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
However, it is possible that HoT and Revan can capitalize on the conditions of Mortis as well. Revan possessed the "balancing" talent and HoT was extremely talented as well.

Perhaps, but they're not the #Chosen1.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Caedus>Malgus
Anakin>Revan
Prove this.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The Hero of Tython can probably/maybe beat Krayt, but considering the rest of his team is getting pounded, he's not going to carry TOR to victory.
Maybe? Seriously?

Malgus = Caedus, though I'd say he'd beat him personally. He's just a bit more impressive with his Force abilities than Caedus is imo, is perhaps a bit less skilled in lightsaber combat but he is much better armored so perhaps it evens out.

HoT > Krayt. Which Krayt is this btw? He might win if he has his Dark Transfer ability, provided it works through heavy armor.

Revan > Anakin. Blah. BLAH! Yeah, but I still put Revan ahead.

I think when we see him in a fight against heavyweights, we should just assume Reborn Krayt at his best.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Prove this.

Maybe? Seriously?

Prove what? Anakin's saber feats outclass Revan's completely, and his Force Feats are superior even though that's supposed to be Revan's strong suit. There isn't any explanation needed. Revan's strength is all based on hype.

Yes, maybe. The Hero's best speed feat is blitzing a couple Sith Assassins. Krayt blitzed Imperial Knights with failing health. The Hero has collapsed a portion of a ceiling with the Force, Krayt has pulled down pillars and ragdolled powerful Force Users like Cade and Nihl. Hero's got accolades saying he's the most skilled Jedi of his time, but Krayt outclasses every other force user of his time utterly as a duelist, based on his respective battles with Cade and Wyyrlok--Two of the best duelists of the age. As a bonus, Krayt has powerful lightning, Force Illusions, and Dark Transfer which could insta-kill the Hero if he touched him. Not to mention he owns a set of lightsaber-proof armor, though I'm assuming he doesn't have that in this battle.

I'm being pretty generous to the Hero by giving him the benefit of the doubt here and naming him the victor, while his only superior feat to Krayt is defeating Vitiate--Which is rather ambiguous, considering we don't really know what state Vitiate was in.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus = Caedus, though I'd say he'd beat him personally. He's just a bit more impressive with his Force abilities than Caedus is imo, is perhaps a bit less skilled in lightsaber combat but he is much better armored so perhaps it evens out.

When did Caedus ever struggle with an opponent other than his uncle, as of NJO and especially in FoTJ Anakin Solo was second only to Luke wasn't he?

Originally posted by Nephthys

Revan > Anakin. Blah. BLAH! Yeah, but I still put Revan ahead.

Ridiculous. RoTS Anakin?

He only lost to Obi-wan because he had no way to defend himself while air-born. Obi-wan beat Grevious without a lightsaber, he'd grown in power even since AoTC, not by much but his skills themselves had gone way up since AoTC and TPM, especially his defense in Soresu.

HoT shouldn't be placed ahead of Darth Caedus or Malgus for sure. I can't imagine playing that class and beating Malgus 1 on 1 in a fair fight. Might be possible, but I would doubt it. Either way he shouldn't be put above Caedus, who himself is > Malgus.

Oneness, are u talking about gameplay-wise beating Malgus in a one on one fair fight? It is do-able, and easily at that.

Yeah, I could take Malgus probably at level 55.

Originally posted by Oneness
When did Caedus ever struggle with an opponent other than his uncle?

Mara Jade?

Originally posted by Oneness
Ridiculous. RoTS Anakin?

He only lost to Obi-wan because he had no way to defend himself while air-born. Obi-wan beat Grevious without a lightsaber, he'd grown in power even since AoTC, not by much but his skills themselves had gone way up since AoTC and TPM, especially his defense in Soresu.

HoT shouldn't be placed ahead of Darth Caedus or Malgus for sure. I can't imagine playing that class and beating Malgus 1 on 1 in a fair fight. Might be possible, but I would doubt it. Either way he shouldn't be put above Caedus, who himself is > Malgus.

Yeah, so? What, and Revan would lose to Obi-Wan or Grievous? Revan is one of the most powerful Jedi of all time. Its not ridiculous to think he can take Anakin.

I DISAGREE. estahuh

lvl 55 well geared Tank + companion healer combo=stomp malgus

Originally posted by Nephthys
Mara Jade?

I haven't actually read NJO, what were the circumstances, Mara Jade was his aunt - Vader (one of the most powerful Sith of all time) struggled with a Luke who would later struggle to beat Mara Jade, getting pwned by C'boath (should be weaker than Vader), Lumiya, etc.

So what we got here is a case of PIS: Anakin Solo jobbing to his aunt.



In Anakin's case, if he'd made the tactical error of trying to leap across that much distance, leaving himself open, Obi-wan wouldn't just amputate him out of compassion, he'd kill him.

No, I don't think Revan would have broken Obi-wan's defenses as many times as Anakin did without using special abilities like illusions or some other TOR-shit - and his Force heal is<Dark Transfer so he'd not get up after getting his limbs chopped off.



Not really.



Anakin was put on the council before HoT ("to be on the council at your age, it's never happened before!", Plagueis states a vergence with a midi-chlorian count at Anakin's would be higher than any being ever born before, Anakin excelled faster than all his competition in a time where there were FAAAR more apsiring Jedi than in the TOR era (the galactic populace was higher and the Jedi Order had grown unhindered for 1,000 years, whereas the Jedi council had started from scratch 300 years before TOR; after Kotor II), I'd say Anakin - seasoned by war, even at 23 years old, was more powerful in the Force, and more powerful in the combat related powers he'd developed, than even the redeemed Revan by miles.

Dooku would trash Revan in a fight.

Then argue your case.

Anakin being put on the council before the HoT is as irrelevant as me saying the HoT became a jedi master, Anakin never did. Just food for thought

The HoT isn't even on the Council. In fact, if you're darkside you're not even made a Jedi Master.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Anakin being put on the council before the HoT is as irrelevant as me saying the HoT became a jedi master, Anakin never did. Just food for thought That doesn't take away from the accolade - as Anakin couldn't become a Jedi Master because there was no more Jedi Order for him to move up the ranks in.

It is impressive that he naturally excelled faster in developing any Force-related ability ("his abilities have made him...arrogant" than thousands of Force users.

Anakin was only put on the Council because Palpatine asked for him to be put on it. Not because of actual merit.

Yes, actual merit.

Why did Sidious, a character obsessed with having an uber powerful apprentice, pay any attention to him at all?

Huuuuh?

It was his "talents".

Because he was a fawking psychotic moron who was easily manipulated into doing Sidious' bidding?

And, yeah, because he was the Chosen One with unmatched potential. That doesn't make your argument anymore valid.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because he was easily manipulated into doing Sidious' bidding?

Because he made Dooku look like a joke, actually.

Unmatched *progress*.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Anakin being put on the council before the HoT is as irrelevant as me saying the HoT became a jedi master, Anakin never did. Just food for thought Because giving him a rank of master meant that he would be allowed access to the restricted holocrons.

He was " 'arguably' the most powerful Jedi alive and is still getting stronger." -Mace

"He's holding me back. " -AotC movie

"They don't trust you, Anakin. They see your future, they know your power will be too strong to control." -RotS movie

Originally posted by Oneness
I haven't actually read NJO, what were the circumstances, Mara Jade was his aunt - Vader (one of the most powerful Sith of all time) struggled with a Luke who would later struggle to beat Mara Jade, getting pwned by C'boath (should be weaker than Vader), Lumiya, etc.

So what we got here is a case of PIS: Anakin Solo jobbing to his aunt.

Mara goes completely nuts on him and actually very nearly kills him. Only him freaking her out by putting an illusion of Ben's face over his own made her hesitate from the final blow and even then he needed to grow a third arm to kill her (both his arms were busy, but he still somehow manages to stab her with a poison needle).

Originally posted by Oneness
In Anakin's case, if he'd made the tactical error of trying to leap across that much distance, leaving himself open, Obi-wan wouldn't just amputate him out of compassion, he'd kill him.

No, I don't think Revan would have broken Obi-wan's defenses as many times as Anakin did without using special abilities like illusions or some other TOR-shit - and his Force heal is<Dark Transfer so he'd not get up after getting his limbs chopped off.

I know, and Revan probably wouldn't make the same error.

Dooku didn't seem to have problems with breaking Kenobi's defense. Revan would TK pwn him like Dooku did, or throw an uber Light + Dark in balance attack at him.

Originally posted by Oneness
Not really.

Yes really. Revan was a legendary Jedi who inspired cults hundreds of years after his 'death.'

Originally posted by Oneness
Anakin was put on the council before HoT ("to be on the council at your age, it's never happened before!", Plagueis states a vergence with a midi-chlorian count at Anakin's would be higher than any being ever born before,

Anakin being on the council is irrelevant and yes, Anakin has the highest potential of all time, but he did not come close to realising his potential. Anakin is an incompetent buffoon. He has the greatest power ever but utterly fails in wielding that power.

Originally posted by Oneness
Anakin excelled faster than all his competition in a time where there were FAAAR more apsiring Jedi than in the TOR era (the galactic populace was higher and the Jedi Order had grown unhindered for 1,000 years, whereas the Jedi council had started from scratch 300 years before TOR; after Kotor II),

Bwahahahahaha! Ok, I'm sure its ignorance that makes you say this but the Jedi Order as of TOR pretty conclusively numbers in the millions. Even the Sith Empire holds those numbers and they are vastly outnumbered by the Jedi and the Republic. Waaay more than the measly 10,000 of the PT era.

Originally posted by Oneness
I'd say Anakin - seasoned by war, even at 23 years old, was more powerful in the Force, and more powerful in the combat related powers he'd developed, than even the redeemed Revan by miles.

That is ridiculous. Anakin isn't more powerful with the Force or in combat. Revan defeated entire armies, beat the shit out of Star Forge Malak, curbstomped Nyriss, challenged Vitiate and amazed Bane with his knowledge of the Force. There is absolutely no way Anakin outstrips him by miles. Even Tempest would laugh at that and he hates Revan.

Originally posted by Oneness
Dooku would trash Revan in a fight.

Lmao. No he wouldn't.

Originally posted by Oneness
Then argue your case.

Nah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Mara goes completely nuts on him and actually very nearly kills him. Only him freaking her out by putting an illusion of Ben's face over his own made her hesitate from the final blow and even then he needed to grow a third arm to kill her (both his arms were busy, but he still somehow manages to stab her with a poison needle).


Like I said, PIS.....



Quit calling Darth Tyranus "Dookie".

Dooku=Windu, which is>Revan.



Maybe top 20.

According to you Barsen'Thor stomps.



He got about 80 realized out of 200, potential wise, according to Lucas.



Guess the Jedi of the golden age of the Republic era were more selective in their candidates - choosing quality of quantity.

So Anakin was excelling faster than the best among the best.

I love how TOR adds to the PT power levels.

And thank you, for arguing my point.



So did Mace Windu and Yoda.



Anakin whooped Dooku's ass and awed Sidious in the process. BANG!



l3nLjkO0Z-8



He'd have more problems with Malgus than Revan, tbh.



#Concession excepted.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Because giving him a rank of master meant that he would be allowed access to the restricted holocrons.

He was " 'arguably' the most powerful Jedi alive and is still getting stronger." -Mace

"He's holding me back. " -AotC movie

"They don't trust you, Anakin. They see your future, they know your power will be too strong to control." -RotS movie

And also because Anakin obviously wasn't ready to be a Jedi Master. He was far too immature and unstable. He lacked the wisdom, maturity and self-control that a Jedi Master needs. The scene where he flips out over not becoming a Master shows exactly why he shouldn't be a Master.

Anakin was a beast --

-- Mace got scawed just thinking about what he could do with the knowledge of mahsta.

Meh, Anakins ok. He's decidedly mid-tier in comparison to the characters we talk about here, with little ability or knowledge with the Force and his personality problems preventing him from accessing true greatness.

NO HE IS THE CHOSEN ONE. ALL BOW TO HIS AWSUM YOUNGLING KILLING POWER.

Originally posted by Oneness
Like I said, PIS.....

Not so much PIS as it was her simply fighting much smarter than he did. If anything it was PIS that he managed to survive.

Originally posted by Oneness
Quit calling Darth Tyranus "Dookie".

Dooku=Windu, which is>Revan.

ABC logic doesn't work. Revan has demonstrated comparable TK prowess and raw power on the level of both of those two.

Originally posted by Oneness
Maybe top 20.

According to you Barsen'Thor stomps.

I don't believe I said Thor stomped him. I said she's more powerful than he is, but the two are quite close.

Originally posted by Oneness
He got about 80 realized out of 200, potential wise, according to Lucas.

As Vader, who was much better in actualizing his power than Anakin was.

Originally posted by Oneness
Guess the Jedi of the golden age of the Republic era were more selective in their candidates - choosing quality of quantity.

So Anakin was excelling faster than the best among the best.

I love how TOR adds to the PT power levels.

And thank you, for arguing my point.

I guess not, since its said repeatedly that the PT era has majorly slacked off in the area of combat training. And recall that they have the Agricultural Corps, where they send Jedi who are too weak to become actual Padawans and Knights. So I hardly think they're that selective in who they take in, if they take force users that weak into their ranks.

Originally posted by Oneness
So did Mace Windu and Yoda.

And...... that puts him below Anakin? I mean, dismissing something because freaking Yoda and Windu have done it is utterly dumb. Matching something they've done doesn't put you below Anakin.

Originally posted by Oneness
Zonakin whooped Dooku's ass and awed Sidious in the process. BANG!

True.

Originally posted by Oneness
He'd have more problems with Malgus than Revan, tbh.

Probably.

In that Malgus would kick his ass.

Originally posted by Oneness
#Concession excepted.

I really don't want to argue the Hero of Tython with you again.

Originally posted by Nephthys
As Vader, who was much better in actualizing his power than Anakin was. No, as Anakin Skywalker, who was the strongest Jedi of his age; and rising steadily as of ROTS. If he'd maintained his focus - without faltering or falling to the fear of losing Padme, he would have continued to grow in the Force by leaps and bounds like, he had already been making. He could of reached FoTJ Luke's levels at a much younger age.

As Vader, he stopped and evened out because he could no longer accept himself - he had too much despair to improve - and could not commit fully to the dark (Shadows of the Empire).

I'm under the impression that Darth Tyranus, along with Windu, were elite Jedi - like the Barsen-Thor except with full potential realized and many decades of refinement - as well as the premier, best duelists of any age (rivaling Tulak Hord and Luke Skywalker) - could defeat Cyborg Vader, Revan, and perhaps Malgus despite Jensaarai's theory.

As Vader he had a far superior command of the Force and was much more skilled in using it. His Force Mastery was on the whole, vastly superior to Anakin who preferred to bull through everything relying on his innate power.

They are elite Jedi and duelists, but so are Vader, Revan and Malgus. In fact, I would place all 3 of them a step above Dooku as a whole.

Vader was a "broken shadow of his former self", a "painter gone blind".

After Padme died, he stopped growing stronger. With non-limber cyborg limbs taking away motility, boots that made the ground slipper, a helmet the burdened his balance (RoDV), without the ability to breath on his own (except under certain circumstances when he had to, he called upon Force rage, he was a mini-Darth Sion), with a heavy respirator that was like a big fat target, ROTS Anakin mauls any Vader.

He stopped growing stronger? I think you should read Rise of Darth Vader.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He stopped growing stronger? I think you should read Rise of Darth Vader. I have, that's where the "like a painter gone blind" quote came from.

The novel gives credence to Sidious designing Vader to have weaknesses to exploit, and Vader having to relearn everything he thought he knew about lightsaber combat. The whole suit was disadvantageous, he did not have the willpower to destroy the Emperor who was his "only remaining link to the living" (Rise and Fall of Darth Vader) - and could not live with himself and did not have the temperment to maintain the rage neccessary even to heal himself of his grevious wounds (Shadows of the Empire). The only advantage he gained from the limbs, despite the lack of motion, came from the faster, more precise, and more powerful lightsaber strikes.

So, final calls?

For comparisons between the teams, Krayt and Malgus are roughly equals; HoT and Caedus are probably equals too; but Revan has no feats to match Anakin. The latter is more powerful, more skilled, faster, stronger, boasts more Force reserves, etc.

Team 2 wins.

HoT solos with Chewbacca riding his shoulders.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus = Caedus, though I'd say he'd beat him personally. He's just a bit more impressive with his Force abilities than Caedus is imo, is perhaps a bit less skilled in lightsaber combat but he is much better armored so perhaps it evens out.

HoT > Krayt. Which Krayt is this btw? He might win if he has his Dark Transfer ability, provided it works through heavy armor.

Revan > Anakin. Blah. BLAH! Yeah, but I still put Revan ahead.

Originally posted by Oneness
Guess the Jedi of the golden age of the Republic era were more selective in their candidates - choosing quality of quantity.

For the record, I've made a list, and there seem to be over twice as many "quality" combatants in the TOR era than there are in the PT era.

From one game.

Originally posted by Nephthys
For the record, I've made a list, and there seem to be over twice as many "quality" combatants in the TOR era than there are in the PT era.

From one game.

I'll concede this point, as Jedi are free to leave the order whenever they want - and parents are free to keep them if they choose.

There must have been less recruitment during the PT era if there was in fact only tens of thousands of Jedi.

As for my final call, team 1 should win because Krayt is the weak link. That's as much detail as I care to go into right now.

Heh, its funny how everyone seems to disagree on who the weak link is. Interesting how we rate combatants so differently.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Heh, its funny how everyone seems to disagree on who the weak link is. Interesting how we rate combatants so differently. It's more difficult to gauge Star Wars characters than it is to gauge superheroes and the like, which I think is a good thing.

It's not all about powerful level, for the most part it is about skill and determination.

For instance, Malgus at the time he lost the strike team would probably lose to OT Vader due to a weakened resolve, but most of the time Malgus would win.

Originally posted by Oneness
It's more difficult to gauge Star Wars characters than it is to gauge superheroes and the like, which I think is a good thing.

It's not all about powerful level, for the most part it is about skill and determination.

For instance, Malgus at the time he lost the strike team would probably lose to OT Vader due to a weakened resolve, but most of the time Malgus would win.

How was Malgus' resolve weakened? He's just broke away from the Empire, created his own one and was literally at a high. Had the best stealth fighters at the time, not to mention a great deal of highly skilled aliens the Empire had declined to let work with them. Not to mention becoming the new 'False' Emperor.

If anything, his resolve was rather heightened, because he was fighting extremely strong opponets at end-game peak. Nox, Cipher 9, Champ and 2nd Wrath.

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
If anything, his resolve was rather heightened, because he was fighting extremely strong opponets at end-game peak. Nox, Cipher 9, Champ and 2nd Wrath.
As Emperor the stakes were at their highest, he couldn't afford to die. Sure at first he was probably pretty confident, but they were putting up a fight.

His resolve clearly weakened as the battle went on, a fact the team used to their advantage.

Originally posted by Oneness
As Emperor the stakes were at their highest, he couldn't afford to die. Sure at first he was probably pretty confident, but they were putting up a fight.

His resolve clearly weakened as the battle went on, a fact the team used to their advantage.

Proof of this, or just assumption?

Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
Proof of this, or just assumption? It is an assumption, I'll admit.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Prove what? Anakin's saber feats outclass Revan's completely, and his Force Feats are superior even though that's supposed to be Revan's strong suit. There isn't any explanation needed. Revan's strength is all based on hype.
Excuse me?

Revan can subdue Jedi level opponents with relative ease. It is not as if his dueling prowess sucks or something.

Any comparison between Anakin and Revan in the context of dueling prowess is inconclusive. Revan have extraordinary precognitive abilities and reaction rate much like Anakin and he can get very acrobatic in his duels.

Also, Revan's command of the Force is superior to that of Anakin. The latter have some high showings but Revan have showing great deal of consistency in his high showings.

Yes, beating Dooku is a remarkable accomplishment for Anakin but Revan does not shares weaknesses of Dooku and neither he is following some plot to lure Anakin to the dark side in this contest.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yes, maybe. The Hero's best speed feat is blitzing a couple Sith Assassins. Krayt blitzed Imperial Knights with failing health.
This is not Hero's best speed feat; this is rather indicative of the magnitude of his (consistent) dueling prowess. And the assassins whom HoT fought were not ordinary ones either; they were chosen to assassinate HoT by Sith higher-ups. A couple of those assassins even had some "element of surprise" at their side but still lost to HoT.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The Hero has collapsed a portion of a ceiling with the Force, Krayt has pulled down pillars and ragdolled powerful Force Users like Cade and Nihl.
Excuse me?

This feat isn't indicative of HoT's peak telekinetic proficiency. It is just that HoT arrived in a medical facility whose safety was compromised by gigantic insect like creatures from several locations. HoT sealed these entrances by ripping apart some portions of ceiling of the facility and throwing them upon the entrance points of the creatures.

HoT, in-fact, acquired such telekinetic proficiency that he could perform impressive feats without gestures. As an example, he forcibly shut down a (gigantic) electronic bridge with a mere thought when an army of droids began to cross it, resulting in destruction of this army.

HoT could in-fact kill opponents with a simple telekinetic push. Do not underestimate him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Hero's got accolades saying he's the most skilled Jedi of his time, but Krayt outclasses every other force user of his time utterly as a duelist, based on his respective battles with Cade and Wyyrlok--Two of the best duelists of the age. As a bonus, Krayt has powerful lightning, Force Illusions, and Dark Transfer which could insta-kill the Hero if he touched him. Not to mention he owns a set of lightsaber-proof armor, though I'm assuming he doesn't have that in this battle.
This is a misleading evaluation.

Hero was a standout in an era filled with powerhouses. Their is a long list.

In contrast, few individuals were powerhouses during Krayt's prime: you identified these individuals yourself.

And Krayt's dark side talents are not going to be a trouble for Hero. The Dark Transfer talent does not works in the way as you consider it to be; it requires proper physical contact which is difficult to accomplish against a formidable opponent in the heat of combat and the opponent should have a (recent) history of crippling wounds which shall be re-opened with the said talent (This talent is not an insta-kill or something). Unless we are considering a seriously wounded Hero, Dark Transfer is unlikely to undermine him. And it is a big if, if Krayt can even manage to touch Hero long enough for his Dark Transfer talent to work.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'm being pretty generous to the Hero by giving him the benefit of the doubt here and naming him the victor, while his only superior feat to Krayt is defeating Vitiate--Which is rather ambiguous, considering we don't really know what state Vitiate was in.
Vitiate, even in his vulnerable condition, could subdue majority of the Force-users in the mythos. This have been made clear in the game.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Hero was a standout in an era filled with powerhouses. Their is a long list.

57 by my count. There's undoubtedly more.

^^^

Thanks for your input.

Heck, I recall the (not so well-known) Jun Seros stopping a missile in its flight with his telekinetic prowess. This Jedi seems to possess incredible reflexes. Not surprisingly he is officially identified as an extremely skilled duelist.

I'm not going to get into a 1000 year debate about HoT vs Anakin, but Anakin should be better than Revan here.

Caedus, by implication of having better experience and demonstrating crazy esoteric capabilities, culminated with the mere association of Skywalker blood and the implications therein, should also be better than Revan and about on RoTS Anakin's tier.

Anakin cut Dooku down faster than Yoda could (given, Yoda had anatomical limitations), that is no small feat.

I understand that I may seem biased toward the character, but if anything Revan has been the subject of bias ever since KoTor.

Let just make two points:

-Plagueis states a vergence with a midi-chlorian count at Anakin's would be higher than any being ever born before him, Anakin excelled faster than all of his competition without trying...

-By ROTS, Anakin is seasoned by 4 years of war and repeated duels with Tyranus, who himself is on the same tier as Revan and Mace Windu - and probably the deadliest of the 3 one on one

So, even at 23 years old - was more powerful in the Force, and more powerful in the combat related skills he'd developed, than even the redeemed Revan by miles.

Originally posted by Oneness
I'm not going to get into a 1000 year debate about HoT vs Anakin, but Anakin should be better than Revan here.

Caedus, by implication of having better experience and demonstrating crazy esoteric capabilities, culminated with the mere association of Skywalker blood and the implications therein, should also be better than Revan and about on RoTS Anakin's tier.

Anakin cut Dooku down faster than Yoda could (given, Yoda had anatomical limitations), that is no small feat.

I understand that I may seem biased toward the character, but if anything Revan has been the subject of bias ever since KoTor.

Let just make two points:

-Plagueis states a vergence with a midi-chlorian count at Anakin's would be higher than any being ever born before him, Anakin excelled faster than all of his competition without trying...

-By ROTS, Anakin is seasoned by 4 years of war and repeated duels with Tyranus, who himself is on the same tier as Revan and Mace Windu - and probably the deadliest of the 3 one on one

So, even at 23 years old - was more powerful in the Force, and more powerful in the combat related skills he'd developed, than even the redeemed Revan by miles.
1000 year debate? LOL

Anyways:

Anakin never surpassed Yoda in power. It is misleading to boast that Anakin is miles ahead of Revan; he realistically cannot be. Anakin have a few high showings but Revan have consistency on his side.

Dooku benefitted from Yoda's passivity. He would have stood no chance if Yoda was after his blood, but Yoda is a jedi and a reluctant warrior.

Also, Dooku was tasked by Sidious to lure Anakin to the dark side in the confrontation that took place on a cruiser. He played by the rules instead of attempting to save his life and paid the price.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin never surpassed Yoda in power.

Never said that much. But he came very close, he was younger and "more powerful" than the experienced Tyranus.



As of AoTC, Anakin lasts far longer with Dooku one on one than Obi-wan despite his almost non-existent experience in real combat. Yet by RoTS, he claims his powers have doubled since the last time he met with Tyranus - not one year before this, in TCW he was holding his own against Tyranus far better than he did on Geonosis. The third or fourth time they fight, as he's rescuing Palpatine, Anakin nearly wins against Tyranus.

It already seen in the film that his fear and irrationality was getting in the way of his ability to make good tactical decision. Also, pertaining to his defeat, it would have been impossible to defend himself while air-born, and unlike Maul, Obi-wan saw him coming from a mile away. The novel even suggests Obi-wan had the time to spare Anakin with a "defensive" maneuver that only did enough to end the fight, as opposed to an offensive strike to kill.

The novelization corrects many of the errors in Anakin beating Tyranus then turning around and losing to Obi-wan. When Anakin and Obi-wan tag teamed Dooku and both lost in RoTS, the novel explains that they were "tripping over each other".



That is not really implied at all, he was obviously trying to end the war so no more Jedi would die, he would have more evil not to eliminate Tyranus.



Reluctant, but when it's time to kill, it's time to kill.



Not according to his narrative point of view - in his own narrative, Anakin makes all of his powers look like a joke by comparison.

Originally posted by Oneness
I'm not going to get into a 1000 year debate about HoT vs Anakin, but Anakin should be better than Revan here.

Nah.

Originally posted by Oneness
Caedus, by implication of having better experience and demonstrating crazy esoteric capabilities, culminated with the mere association of Skywalker blood and the implications therein, should also be better than Revan and about on RoTS Anakin's tier.

Caedus does not have better experience at all. Revan fought in the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil Wars and gained good combat experience in both. Caedus has spent the majority of the wars he's taken part in out of the action. And just being a Skywalker doesn't put you above everyone else i.e. Jaina. Caedus is powerful, but he is not automatically superior to Revan in hat regard just through virtue of his bloodline.

Originally posted by Oneness
Anakin cut Dooku down faster than Yoda could (given, Yoda had anatomical limitations), that is no small feat.

And then lost of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Originally posted by Oneness
I understand that I may seem biased toward the character, but if anything Revan has been the subject of bias ever since KoTor.

You're not overly, you just see things differently.

Originally posted by Oneness
Let just make two points:

-Plagueis states a vergence with a midi-chlorian count at Anakin's would be higher than any being ever born before him, Anakin excelled faster than all of his competition without trying...

-By ROTS, Anakin is seasoned by 4 years of war and repeated duels with Tyranus, who himself is on the same tier as Revan and Mace Windu - and probably the deadliest of the 3 one on one

So, even at 23 years old - was more powerful in the Force, and more powerful in the combat related skills he'd developed, than even the redeemed Revan by miles.

1) So? Anakin has a hell of a lot of power, but he has never demonstrated an exceptional ability to use it. Can you name some feats in the Force that you think show Anakin as being more powerful than Revan? Revan caught the lightning of Nyriss with his bare hands then threw it back at her. The same lightning that was powerful enough to utterly disintegrate her even after breaking through her Force Shield. Revan was powerful enough to put Lord freaking Vitiate on his ass. Could Anakin? Revan had such a deep connection to the Force that he was capable of unleashing both the Light and Dark sides together. He's ripped asteroids out of the sky and pelted people with them.

Anakin.... has done what to make you think he's that powerful?

- Lol @ AotC Anakin being superior Marek and Luke. Revan has far superior experience in warfare than Anakin does (since he fought in a war comprised of actual Jedi and Sith, thus he has more experience with force using opponents) AND he's a genius with massive stores of Force Knowledge and training under his belt. Knowledge which iirc he consumed extremely quickly, he only had a few years as Darth Revan yet his darkside knowledge was mindblowing to Bane. And if we go by KoTOR he learns faster than Anakin did as well.

^^^

Nicely put once again.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And then lost of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

We've already been through this, either discuss the points I've made, or quit using this.

Oh god, you're into all the ridiculous TOR techniques :facepalm:

Vader could do crazy damage damage seen in TFU II with these abilities:

-Force rage (RoTS)
-Force speed (during lightsaber combat in TCW series)
-Force push
-Force choke
-Force grip
-Force repulse
-TK augmented lightsaber blows
-Force wave (in the Obsession comic)
-Force repulse
-Forcefield
-Invection
-Tutaminis
-Force repel (against Starkiller II's Force lightning, which rivaled Nyriss')


Yet he couldn't beat RoTJ Luke - who never demonstrated any of these abilities.





More than Tyranus, which is why all of this



Hasn't been enough to stop the likes of him.

Anakin's abilities are guilty by implication - just like most of HoT's; as you claim that because he beats them, he is >. That's logic you've as well.



It's already implied, to disown the implication one as to be able to support the contrary with evidence.



I never said otherwise.



Not sure I agree with you. Anakin did care much about the more esoteric techniques, but the whole TCW demonstrates his determination in combat with just about any type of opponent - those abilities are primed.

Well said, Neph.

Originally posted by Oneness

-By ROTS, Anakin is seasoned by 4 years of war and repeated duels with Tyranus, who himself is on the same tier as Revan and Mace Windu - and probably the deadliest of the 3 one on one


I'm totally cool with Anakin being more powerful than Revan, but AotC Anakin? Where the hell are you getting that from?

Do you really think AotC Anakin could go toe to toe with Sidious just like Marek did?