Alex Mercer vs Cole McGrath

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sacred108
No prep, no morals, who wins.

Sacred 117
This has been done, and which Cole?

sacred108
Evil

Sacred 117
Evil levels him. More likely than Good (canon). This is assuming he can access Beast form. At which point he's a casual city buster. Even without it, he was generally more powerful than good Cole due to his lust for power.

I could go on, but I doubt I will. Now just to wait until Mercer advocates show up to claim he can one-shot God. haermm

sacred108
Was the other one good cole

Sacred 117
The other was composite, which, in hindsight, I kinda feel bad about doing.

Danny Wayne
I'm going with Alex for now mostly because I don't know much about Cole

Wei Phoenix
Wrong forum for the thread.

Danny Wayne
The game versus thread is so dead.

Wei Phoenix
Doesn't change this from being an illegal thread and the fact that it's been done should give you your answer.

Danny Wayne
Good point where is impediment

DatCanadian
Done before, I'll say it again, Cole wins regardless of karma as long as the fight is in a normal city where they can both recover biomass or energy.

Edit - Oh shoot, didn't notice the date

Supra
This is not the video game versus forum

BloodRain
Sacred, the main issue is that with his city blast he'd also be blown up parts too given we know his durability, and.. wait.. can't remember what counts as a KO anymore. Because things like BFR can count, or even temp KOs.

Ruling?

Sacred 117
Originally posted by DatCanadian
Done before, I'll say it again, Cole wins regardless of karma as long as the fight is in a normal city where they can both recover biomass or energy.

thumb up

BloodRain
Unhelpful >[

Sacred 117
haermm

What do you need help with?

BloodRain
Lol well its known that unless stated in the OP, a win consists of the character being incapable of battle. Death, KO, BFR, lobotomized etc. But the time it takes is iffy.

If regenerators take time to reform, thats usually fine. But when others do (like Raziel being killed and send to the spirit world, allowing him to return once he finds a corpse lying around) its not considered, at least rarely.

The Scenario
With Raziel, his spirit actually leaves the battlefield and it can take several minutes for him to get back to where he was. Even so, if there are no corpses around for him to possess, and no spectral realm portals (which were provided by the Elder God) he's pretty much out of luck.


Mercer's regeneration doesn't take nearly as long and can be done without leaving the field, so I'm more inclined to let it slide. However, he also seems to need some biomass to kickstart the process if he's almost completely destroyed, so if there isn't any I'd say he's out of luck, too.

NemeBro
Mercer kills him with a single punch before Cole can bust out anything particularly impressive.

Be real.

BloodRain
But what if there is one around those few minutes away?

DatCanadian
Originally posted by BloodRain
But what if there is one around those few minutes away?

Its almost passable, but its still borderline cheap. Its like suddenly before Cole dies, a lightning bolt hits him when Alex leaves him.

And btw, I doubt either of them would leave the other alone. Cole discovering Alex as a shapeshifter would make him wary of the leftover blob and will freeze him.

Now to actually debate

Alex is resistant and is very durable. Tanking rockets and tank shells. However that nuke is an overkill on him and his regeneration feat from it was like a reset button instead. He was already far away from it, on a chopper near the edge of the blast, and the nuke was underwater. I have doubts that if he was near the center at all, he would've been eradicated.

However, back to my main argument, Alex is mostly resistant, to PHYSICAL attacks. By I mean physical, things such as heat and bullets or kinetic damage. Things like explosions are different from electricity. Electricity is energy and since Alex is mostly biomass, he'll be affected like any other human that Cole hits, stunned by any attack, his regeneration being stumped as the electricity passes through his whole body to get grounded, dealing damage at the same time.

So all in all, just another day for Cole on zapping against a single corrupted.

Edit - So why not just lock the thread now and prevent any more replies. Or move it to game vs forums if you guys want to

LeonBuco666
But then, by that logic Cole is made up of the same as any normal human/infected but can conduct and manipulate energy.

Alex is faster, tougher & most certainly was not at the "edge" of the blast radius, seriously.

Its can go either way, but due to Alex being smarter(scientist > bike courier) stronger & faster....I'm saying Alex for a majority.

LeonBuco666
Also, Cole won't just start busting out all exotic attacks, he needs to absorb electric to an extent to start doing crazy shit.

We know Alex doesn't. He consumes to stay alive, all of his powers are base. He moves faster than 300+ mph, Cole has no chance unless Mercer stands there with his dick in his hands like "Go ahead Cole, drain that generator dont worry, I dont fight dirty or anyrhing"

Which we know as per this thread Cole certainly does but so does Mercer.

Mercer WILL get close to Cole, even though he has his whipfist. But yes, Cole probably can avoid those attacks but only for so long, while Cole can send singluar attacks, Mercer can smash the grund hulk-style causing spikes to sprout while also attacking with his whipfist.

So its not a matter of "can Mercer hit him with the whipfist" its "how long until he avoid it"
Now I now from the comics & the games Mercer is capable of tearing a tank apart with his bear hands with ease showing no effort at all. Like I said Mercer CAN & WILL attempt to get close to Cole, who isnt fast enough to flee out of the way or athletic enough to get to somewhere Mercer cannot. Cole can start climbing up a building...Mercer will just jump on him and pull him apart.

Now mix the speed with the strength of casuallly flipping tanks 100's of yards which weigh about 60-100 tons. Not only is Cole gonna be distracted by cars gettings launched at him from different directions, he wont be throwing electric bolts because hes gonna be to busy dodges cars, busses & what ever else can be thrown at 60mph or more.

Now Alex is cunning, devious and downright nasty. Shapeshifting wont do much here because Cole doesnt care for innocents as much as Mercer does; not alot.
But he CAN manuvoure in ways Cole cannot.

He gets close to Cole who possesses superhuman speed <<<<<<<<< to Mercers, I wont say he gets consumed because i dont know if he can or not, but he will get cut to pieces or torn to pieces or outright crushed be Alex' Hammer fist.

Mercer against a good Cole - Mercer 9/10
Against a bad Cole - 6/10

Cole can go beast mode, but his personality suggests otherwise, he WONT turn into the beast just to beat 1 guy.


Not only is that showing that Cole needs to go uber to beat him, it makes him look like a *****, having to go all out.

So mercer wins.
Solidly at that.

DatCanadian
First of all, I'm pretty sure thread necromancy is a bad thing.
Secondly, you're wrong

Alex does not move above 300mmph.. Hes around 120, barely above the cars that he outruns. And even then he needs time to speed up. And even if he's that fast, Cole was able to keep track of teleporters and has that time slowing/reaction boosting ability.

What use is strength when you're spasming on the ground being electrocuted? Unable to heal, unable to move as your muscles and cells won't follow. Lightning will affect cellular regeneration. If Cross can stun Alex around like that which he didn't adapt to, then Cole's lightning which casually powers up power grids that energize large city blocks. A simple basic attack from cole will stun him cancelling all his momentum negating speed advantage or strength.

The moment he hits Alex with one attack, he gets stunned. For a moment. But if he gets stunned once, he can't dodge. Cole can keep zapping him with lightning bolts. If Alex was moving he could easily counter with the shockwave and in the comics he controls the flow of lightning accurately, being able to target enemies around him who were in varying positions away. And Cole gets energy whenever he hits someone. Alex counts. That's an infinite energize hit combo.

Cole has lightning tether. Easily climbs up buildings. And his radar will always alarm him if Alex is too close. Not that it matters, one shot will seal Alex's fate. Or put him in the border of barely escape with his life or die in an infinite combo.

He's not as fast as a blur.
Cole will win.

Beast Cole is a stomp. He took on a nuke and casually regenerated without the need of anything. With those giant vortexes and fireballs and gravity fields, he'll curbstomp the Prototype verse.

Cole wins I'm afraid.
Huh, its been awhile since I've been in this site


Oh and if Alex even tries to lift something, that's valuable time for Cole to take advantage and use precision and stun him. Then rain lightning on him.

Oh, and tornadoes out of nowhere. Made of lightning. That will stun Alex enough for Ionic Freeze, or go straight for Lightning Storm. Which are multiple lightning bolts. That's gonna turn Alex to ash



So

Stun CC that halts regeneration on all attacks, Radar, accuracy and reactions > Health/ Health Regen, Strength, Speed, Physical durability

NemeBro
No, being able to run up on Cole and put his fist through his chest nets Alex a pretty easy win.

"He's not as fast as a blur", lol.

Sacred 117
You know what would be hilarious? If Cole stood in a puddle during the fight. (You know, since it's literally the least he would have to do)

link-rape

DatCanadian
Originally posted by NemeBro
No, being able to run up on Cole and put his fist through his chest nets Alex a pretty easy win.

"He's not as fast as a blur", lol.

He's the guy seen by military soldiers. Seen him in cutscenes? Not as fast as a blur.

And let's not forget

Ionic Vortex casually rips and fries him apart.
Precision slows down time enough to see bullets move.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139138/3067649-inf-15.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/139138/3086382-if-02-pg-018.jpg
He's gonna be frying everything around him


Not to mention the homing rockets
And Alex's inability to pinpoint exactly where Cole's going to shoot bolts
Or just shockwave him
Maybe even Gigawatt Blades

I'd like to see him punch Cole when he's spasming on the ground.
Alex is not as fast a blur

Sorry but he might be badass, Cole is his weakness. Or at least uses his weakness as a weapon

Originally posted by Sacred 117
You know what would be hilarious? If Cole stood in a puddle during the fight. (You know, since it's literally the least he would have to do)

link-rape

Haha good call. If it rains Alex can't even get close without being stunned. Death by stepping on a puddle, or frozen

LeonBuco666
Barely 120mph? What???? Wrong.


He doesnt need to lift anything. In the comics Alex becomes a blur i fighting/basic movement.


Cole has no chance of successfully beating him, yes Alex has no idea of where Cole will strike a bolt, but Cole cannot successfully hit him with a bolt if Alex is running round at over 300mph launching cars at him at like 60mph.

You really wont think Mercer as a top scientist will fail to come up with a way to outsmart him, and yes a weakened Mercer was being shocked by Cross, dont nitpick.


If Cole even so much as loses sight Mercer by forcing him away with attacks....its over. Not even due to shapeshift, but because Mercer is as silent as a ghost even at speed.
His radar? Are you talking about his in game radar?

blink


Mercer has sensory powers which are insanely good, he can track Cole indefinitely.


While Cole has range(and thats absolutely it) Mercer has everything else, he will close that gap within a matter of seconds.

And again, slowing down time? His more exotic powers require electricity(quite abit) to do crazy shit.

Mercer gets close, and can do what ever he pleases with him.

Throws cars at hypersonic speeds runs at over 300mph from different directions, forcing Cole to dodge and/or flee from his little area he is in, giving Mercer ample opportunity to close in on Cole(matter of seconds) and dispose of him with his bare fists, but I can imagine an elbow drop turning cole to mush.


Me and Canadian has this debate about a year ago, we never came to a conclusion, we just decided to agree to disagree, because quite frankly it can go either way.

But as you can see he is a Cole fanboy & I am a Mercer fanboy and would rather have the outright win(even though it literally can go either way)



**** Cole Macgrath

DatCanadian
Look, even if you can move at 120 mph or 300 mph, you can't dodge lightning. And in the comic, his attacks are accurate and homing.

Cole can't lose sight of Mercer. Radar Pulse always keeps track of enemies allowing him to keep sight on him. Don't be a fool. Silent as a ghost? This is the guy weighing like a car or more. His footsteps aren't exactly soft. Seen the cutscenes or gameplay itself when moving?

Alex was weakened AFTER Cross' fight. Not BEFORE.

So what? Its not like Cole will always run away. They can't hide from each other. That just means they have a direct fight. And with projectiles that stuns in seconds, Alex is in a very very bad position. Getting close would allow him to attack, but also give Cole more accuracy to him with attacks

He will close half the gap before being electrocuted. Homing lightning can do that. And you're ignoring the tornado and ionic freeze which Alex has no idea of and would be shocked by once Cole uses it. Especially since it has no chanel time

So? Once he stuns Alex and hits him again its all over. Infinite zap zap zap.


He can't pick up cars that fast. Cole would probably even use the cars to his advantages and destroy it with a few lightning shots, or aim for Alex when he's about to throw it.

Alex can't be too close if he throws it because he'll be zapped
Alex can't be too far because then Cole can just dodge it.
Alex can't be stealth because they can't be stealth from each other due to their sensory powers. He won't be throwing cars and finding cars easily since Cole can shoot them too when he's close to those things. And he will be dodging attacks which is hard when he doesn't know where Cole will shoot. Ever heard of random shooting and tricking the enemy?

Yes we did have this debate and Cole is always the underdog.

Here are the facts




Alex might be fast, but he cannot dodge homing attacks, lightning speed attacks, AOE attacks that he has no clue of since they have no prep time, and Cole's precision ability enssures he will be hit.

And if Alex gets hit? Falls down to the ground stunned. He can't dodge. He'll geth it again. Stun. Hit. Stun. Hit. He'll be trapped in a loop.


Alex can't dodge lightning. Even if he can oneshot Cole, you can't oneshot someone when you're cced or spasming on the ground. And I assure you Cole wouldn't engage Alex after he sees him since he has the x ray feature in his radar and will see the mess that Alex was.


Fanboy is a bit of an annoying title. Can't we just go fans? Anyway I won't be debating again till the next day since I have a trip. Its fun debating with you

Sacred 117
Originally posted by DatCanadian
Fanboy is a bit of an annoying title. Can't we just go fans?

Agreed. Better to be a fanboy than an antiboy, either way. Because you can spend your time loving something rather than hating it. (Unless, of course, it leads you to hate everything that isn't it. In which case, f**k you.)

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by DatCanadian
Look, even if you can move at 120 mph or 300 mph, you can't dodge lightning. And in the comic, his attacks are accurate and homing.

Cole can't lose sight of Mercer. Radar Pulse always keeps track of enemies allowing him to keep sight on him. Don't be a fool. Silent as a ghost? This is the guy weighing like a car or more. His footsteps aren't exactly soft. Seen the cutscenes or gameplay itself when moving?

Alex was weakened AFTER Cross' fight. Not BEFORE.

So what? Its not like Cole will always run away. They can't hide from each other. That just means they have a direct fight. And with projectiles that stuns in seconds, Alex is in a very very bad position. Getting close would allow him to attack, but also give Cole more accuracy to him with attacks

He will close half the gap before being electrocuted. Homing lightning can do that. And you're ignoring the tornado and ionic freeze which Alex has no idea of and would be shocked by once Cole uses it. Especially since it has no chanel time

So? Once he stuns Alex and hits him again its all over. Infinite zap zap zap.


He can't pick up cars that fast. Cole would probably even use the cars to his advantages and destroy it with a few lightning shots, or aim for Alex when he's about to throw it.

Alex can't be too close if he throws it because he'll be zapped
Alex can't be too far because then Cole can just dodge it.
Alex can't be stealth because they can't be stealth from each other due to their sensory powers. He won't be throwing cars and finding cars easily since Cole can shoot them too when he's close to those things. And he will be dodging attacks which is hard when he doesn't know where Cole will shoot. Ever heard of random shooting and tricking the enemy?

Yes we did have this debate and Cole is always the underdog.

Here are the facts




Alex might be fast, but he cannot dodge homing attacks, lightning speed attacks, AOE attacks that he has no clue of since they have no prep time, and Cole's precision ability enssures he will be hit.

And if Alex gets hit? Falls down to the ground stunned. He can't dodge. He'll geth it again. Stun. Hit. Stun. Hit. He'll be trapped in a loop.


Alex can't dodge lightning. Even if he can oneshot Cole, you can't oneshot someone when you're cced or spasming on the ground. And I assure you Cole wouldn't engage Alex after he sees him since he has the x ray feature in his radar and will see the mess that Alex was.



Fanboy is a bit of an annoying title. Can't we just go fans? Anyway I won't be debating again till the next day since I have a trip. Its fun debating with you

Now you are being dismissive of his speed.

He can move at 512 feet PER SECOND, he moves at 300mph - 320 (he can max out at about 350mph but that is after biomass consumption) he can minimise his biomass to EXTREMELY low thats how he glides if he does this after jumping, also why he is as silent as a ghost when he wants to be. And also why he can run so fast, because he maximises his biomass when running and lets out like a jet flame of biomass out the back of his body, hence his speed.
He also does this when making short burst like a fire extingisher(lungeing mid glide to change direction or go forward faster, for example which sends him at his full speed WITHOUT need for extra biomass) while stationairy to burst in a direction at top speed without the need to reach that speed running.

Now Mercer needs superior coordinatation & visual perception, which Cole cannot match. Even if his lightening is accurate, Cole literally cannot go put a lightening bolt there, now there...NO he cant.

So he can close that gap in a matter of seconds, yes. He will literally be a blur to Cole.

And tricking your opponents? Not going to happen, Mercer is a scientist and strategically well versed. Cole is outmatched here in terms of intelligence.

Mercer wins via closing that gap far too quickly for Cole to muster up anything to hit him with.

And Cole isnt gonna go beast instantly.

I also like debating with you, and i look forward to your next reply.

DatCanadian
Originally posted by Sacred 117
Agreed. Better to be a fanboy than an antiboy, either way. Because you can spend your time loving something rather than hating it. (Unless, of course, it leads you to hate everything that isn't it. In which case, f**k you.)

Well said. And I'm pretty sure I don't hate Prototype either.


Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Now you are being dismissive of his speed.

He can move at 512 feet PER SECOND, he moves at 300mph - 320 (he can max out at about 350mph but that is after biomass consumption) he can minimise his biomass to EXTREMELY low thats how he glides if he does this after jumping, also why he is as silent as a ghost when he wants to be. And also why he can run so fast, because he maximises his biomass when running and lets out like a jet flame of biomass out the back of his body, hence his speed.
He also does this when making short burst like a fire extingisher(lungeing mid glide to change direction or go forward faster, for example which sends him at his full speed WITHOUT need for extra biomass) while stationairy to burst in a direction at top speed without the need to reach that speed running.

I'm afraid you're also dismissing Cole's feats. See the scans above? Multiple soldiers were running around him and even without accurately seeing where they are his lightning locked in on them and fried them.
He also dealt with teleporters so he isn't going to be blitzed either
And if he goes in the air, the electricity will not be grounded if he gets hit and he's vulnerable to the shockwave and homing rockets.

But a really big question I want to ask, where did you get Alex's speed? Where? Because if he really had that speed he probably can't be even seen. But he can.




You mean the Precision which allows him to slow down time? That's one of the biggest advantages Cole has. The time slow effect allowing him to predict where Alex is going. And seeing he faced many enemies before, with his bolt stream he can just move his attacks quickly to where he thinks they're going. If Alex so much slows down to dodge he could get hit. If Alex doesn't he'll get hit, and he'll be stunned which can be followed by more lightning. That traps him.





Still need speed proof I'm afraid. And Cole has dealt with teleporters and blurs before (cough Kessler and Conduit Reapers who move faster than Alex). And his precision will allow him to take Alex out from afar, at least his mobility. If worst comes to worst, he can always do that thing he did in those above scans and electrocute everything around him.



Okay let me put it this way. If a man that shoots out lightning is aiming his hands at you from a dozen or two meters, and you can run fast, say cover that distance in three to four seconds, you can take him out. But how are you accurately going to predict what he shoots out when he can shoot out:
Accurate long range bolts
Stream of lightning bolts that fires like a machine gun and slightly homes
Sticky rockets that homes
A rocket of hellfire
An explosive swirling mine
AOE Blasts of shockwaves
Homing arcs of lightning
A tornado
An electric mine

He might be intelligent but with the variety in Cole's powers, he won't be able to predict what he shoots out next especially if he never saw Cole in battle



Cole can only go Beast mode on his evil. Its says no moral here but since the main canon timeline is good (Evil is still a canon timeline, just alternate) that means Good Cole is here with Evil Powers.

Beast Cole is an utter stomp

So first if you want to affirm Alex's speed advantage (Which really isn't much since Cole's lightning storms strikes around him and locks on too) go right ahead and show me the scans.

Regardless the moment Alex gets hit by any of Cole's attacks, he will be slowed down to a stun. And once he gets stunned, its all over for him. He can't get out once he's trapped. And his biomass armor and shield won't be blocking Cole's lightning



Same. Just curious, what made you bump this thread to spark up this debate?

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by DatCanadian
Well said. And I'm pretty sure I don't hate Prototype either.




I'm afraid you're also dismissing Cole's feats. See the scans above? Multiple soldiers were running around him and even without accurately seeing where they are his lightning locked in on them and fried them.
He also dealt with teleporters so he isn't going to be blitzed either
And if he goes in the air, the electricity will not be grounded if he gets hit and he's vulnerable to the shockwave and homing rockets.

But a really big question I want to ask, where did you get Alex's speed? Where? Because if he really had that speed he probably can't be even seen. But he can.




You mean the Precision which allows him to slow down time? That's one of the biggest advantages Cole has. The time slow effect allowing him to predict where Alex is going. And seeing he faced many enemies before, with his bolt stream he can just move his attacks quickly to where he thinks they're going. If Alex so much slows down to dodge he could get hit. If Alex doesn't he'll get hit, and he'll be stunned which can be followed by more lightning. That traps him.





Still need speed proof I'm afraid. And Cole has dealt with teleporters and blurs before (cough Kessler and Conduit Reapers who move faster than Alex). And his precision will allow him to take Alex out from afar, at least his mobility. If worst comes to worst, he can always do that thing he did in those above scans and electrocute everything around him.



Okay let me put it this way. If a man that shoots out lightning is aiming his hands at you from a dozen or two meters, and you can run fast, say cover that distance in three to four seconds, you can take him out. But how are you accurately going to predict what he shoots out when he can shoot out:
Accurate long range bolts
Stream of lightning bolts that fires like a machine gun and slightly homes
Sticky rockets that homes
A rocket of hellfire
An explosive swirling mine
AOE Blasts of shockwaves
Homing arcs of lightning
A tornado
An electric mine

He might be intelligent but with the variety in Cole's powers, he won't be able to predict what he shoots out next especially if he never saw Cole in battle



Cole can only go Beast mode on his evil. Its says no moral here but since the main canon timeline is good (Evil is still a canon timeline, just alternate) that means Good Cole is here with Evil Powers.

Beast Cole is an utter stomp

So first if you want to affirm Alex's speed advantage (Which really isn't much since Cole's lightning storms strikes around him and locks on too) go right ahead and show me the scans.

Regardless the moment Alex gets hit by any of Cole's attacks, he will be slowed down to a stun. And once he gets stunned, its all over for him. He can't get out once he's trapped. And his biomass armor and shield won't be blocking Cole's lightning



Same. Just curious, what made you bump this thread to spark up this debate?

The feat deserves to be dismissed, soldiers? Dude.

I will try & find scans, but it was exactly popular so if not I will buy them again and upload them myself(so this may be one long ass debate lol)now I seen various feats around when the comic came out. I do remember it being stated and shown he can be ANYWHERE between 220mph - 320mph. Yes you keep saying he wont know where he is going to strike, but Cole isnt going to be able to as with my previous breakdown its what he will do. Now can cole just instantly use this precision ability or does he need to absorb some sort of electrjc to an extent?


Now, I am gonna go into a bit of detail on just how smart Mercer actually is. When Mercer consumes any being, he also gains all their memories and intelligence(what they're smart and what they excel at) now think of all the blackwatch, army soldiers & extremely high held scientists. Now put all that into one mind with an absolute brute in control....you seriously dont think he could muster up a strategy to avoid Cole's attacks? Yes but like I said, its gonna be hard for Cole to keep up with a literal blur who is capable of closing the gap within seconds, with no need for build up. His intelligence can counter act that versatility.

Yes, his armor and shield would be pretty useless, because its just apart of him.


Now I like what you say about him being stuck in a loop if he gets hit by lightening, but Mercer is a virus.....and virus' adapt when being attacked, now I am not saying he will instantly adapt to being electrocuted, but it wont be a loop lasting forever, it will end at some point with Mercer's cells somehow developing a way to negate it.

Yes beast cole would end Mercer, simply because he will by destroying next to everything, killing all life leaving nothing for mercer to consume.

Ill try getting you the scans, if not i will get the comics myself like I said.

And I actually dont know lol, i seen ANOTHER Mercer & Cole thread and decided to hop on, then i seen your argument for cole (which no one had an answer so) so I had to at that point.


Anyway, how have you been?

DatCanadian
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
The feat deserves to be dismissed, soldiers? Dude.

Not so different from the ones Alex faced. Except for Blackwatch, who are just more soldiers with tanks and choppers. And you've seen Cole oneshot choppers, the same will go for other vehicles.



Hmm, well I want to take your word for it but I can't without the scans itself saying that. Cole's precision is instant. Can be used any time he wants with a snap, uses minor energy too. So yeah he can just use precision when Alex gets too close, and fry him. That's why I believe getting close is a very high risk thing for Alex since it will allow Cole to just attack him with his varied attacks.



Well he won't be coming up with a strategy with attacks he never seen before. If he sees them once and avoids them, he can probably counter them or avoid them say using a riot shield nearby. But the very thing is, ONE HIT from any basic attack from cole will stun him. And that could spell the doom of him. If Cole's attacks didn't stun, Alex would probably win. But Coles attacks are all lightning and stuns, downs civilians too in one hit. So that's the point. If Alex gets hit once by an attack he never expected from Cole, say a tornado or field of ice, he's dead. And Cole has a lot of shocking varying attacks.



Problem is, he doesn't instantly adapt. Remember the bloodtox gas? Or being knocked around by the Hutners' melee attacks? If he truly adapts in seconds then he would be negating the hunters' attacks already. Sure he can dodge them but his body should've made him invulnerable to blunt force if he was adapting to everything. Bloodtox took a long time to adapt too. And that virus Cross used to weaken him took a long time to adapt to and he needed a cure from that Doctor guy. With lightning being an energy he never dealt with before not to mention ice, well he's not adapting out of that I believe.



Don't forget the vaporizing black hole and nuke survival. Simply too much.



Ah great! Thanks, actually want to read the full comics not just the full scans but I can't find them in Canada.

Ah I see. I've taken a possibly eternal break from debating (by debating I meant full on debates like this. Not simple creating threads and casually making one liners)

Good lately. Been very busy. Glad I could get my hands on Second Son. Its like the lovechild of Prototype and Infamous, only a bit shorter and more dubstepy. But still very busy, working on a fic too

Working to catch up on some mangas too

Lek Kuen
Originally posted by DatCanadian
Seen him in cutscenes? Not as fast as a blur.



Let's back up for a bit. Are you claiming if we the player (or audience) can see a character they aren't using super speed?

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by DatCanadian
Not so different from the ones Alex faced. Except for Blackwatch, who are just more soldiers with tanks and choppers. And you've seen Cole oneshot choppers, the same will go for other vehicles.



Hmm, well I want to take your word for it but I can't without the scans itself saying that. Cole's precision is instant. Can be used any time he wants with a snap, uses minor energy too. So yeah he can just use precision when Alex gets too close, and fry him. That's why I believe getting close is a very high risk thing for Alex since it will allow Cole to just attack him with his varied attacks.



Well he won't be coming up with a strategy with attacks he never seen before. If he sees them once and avoids them, he can probably counter them or avoid them say using a riot shield nearby. But the very thing is, ONE HIT from any basic attack from cole will stun him. And that could spell the doom of him. If Cole's attacks didn't stun, Alex would probably win. But Coles attacks are all lightning and stuns, downs civilians too in one hit. So that's the point. If Alex gets hit once by an attack he never expected from Cole, say a tornado or field of ice, he's dead. And Cole has a lot of shocking varying attacks.



Problem is, he doesn't instantly adapt. Remember the bloodtox gas? Or being knocked around by the Hutners' melee attacks? If he truly adapts in seconds then he would be negating the hunters' attacks already. Sure he can dodge them but his body should've made him invulnerable to blunt force if he was adapting to everything. Bloodtox took a long time to adapt too. And that virus Cross used to weaken him took a long time to adapt to and he needed a cure from that Doctor guy. With lightning being an energy he never dealt with before not to mention ice, well he's not adapting out of that I believe.



Don't forget the vaporizing black hole and nuke survival. Simply too much.



Ah great! Thanks, actually want to read the full comics not just the full scans but I can't find them in Canada.

Ah I see. I've taken a possibly eternal break from debating (by debating I meant full on debates like this. Not simple creating threads and casually making one liners)

Good lately. Been very busy. Glad I could get my hands on Second Son. Its like the lovechild of Prototype and Infamous, only a bit shorter and more dubstepy. But still very busy, working on a fic too


Working to catch up on some mangas too

Yes but Alex is far superior to soldiers, when you were referring to Coles accuracy.

Now, then thats obviously much better for Cole, and I can try and come up with a different scenario for Alex to win, the whipfist....

He can whip both arms at sonic speeds (note; you cannot track it with visually & the snap you hear is actually the sound of well....the sound barrier being broke) we know when Alex is fully upgraded he has a lot of range with it, and by P2 he can apply it to both arms and combine powers instantly.

We have seen Mercer one shot countless choppers, vehicles and roundabout most things with that whipfist of his (its actuallu is most dangerous attack speed + damage output)

But in that scenario it will be who jumps the gun first; you said it eas bullet time, I know whips travel at just under the speed of a bullet from typical assault rifles. Now I dont doubt if Cole can use his precision time and be like oh look, a giant whip like arm, but what I do doubt is if he actually has the reaction speed to activate that ability while its coming at him at about 900mph and I know he doesnt have the physical capacity do dodge something at that speed; but he can watch it in slow mo rip through his chest, while he gets at least 1 or 2 zaps in on Mercer.

But Mercer will be stunned, Cole will be dead.

Also about the Bloodtox, Cross used a virus to attack a virus....sort of a double negative; cancelling the other out. Plus it was also specific for Alex's variant of the virus, thats why in P2 by then Alex has become immune to Bloodtox, which is why when he released the virus again, Bloodtox is useless against any infected being because all the infected are directly from Alex's own variant.

Also, I said he couldnt adapt on the fly, it takes time.

And ice? C'mon.....this is a guy who can shatter cars and choppers with one blow and tear tanks and entire building apart with his bare hands.

And he did adapt against blunt & sharp force attacks with the Armor but obviously because it is a game, they have to handicap you...nake you slow and all that shit, but i THINK they fixed that in the comics.
But I am not arguing the armor at all because it is useless here.
Fully upgraded Mercer is immune to most things actually, from blunt force ro being bullet proof.


Good.
And yeah, i havent debated like this for a long time, You should check the DC website, it should be on there.
I remember we were talking about Second Sob last year, still havent gotten round to it yet.

Oh yeah? Well PM when you have it up and send me the link, I'd like to read it.

I also think we should probably call this a 5/10 for both characters.
Too many variables.

Although I dont think Cole would just start spamming Mercer with bolts, probably zap him once he can, maybe once more and then attempt to approach Mercer which would be a big mistake.


And yep, beast cole is crazy powerful.

Sacred 117
Canadian, may I ask what it is you're working on? I can't tell if you're talking fanfic or original work.

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by DatCanadian
Not so different from the ones Alex faced. Except for Blackwatch, who are just more soldiers with tanks and choppers. And you've seen Cole oneshot choppers, the same will go for other vehicles.



Hmm, well I want to take your word for it but I can't without the scans itself saying that. Cole's precision is instant. Can be used any time he wants with a snap, uses minor energy too. So yeah he can just use precision when Alex gets too close, and fry him. That's why I believe getting close is a very high risk thing for Alex since it will allow Cole to just attack him with his varied attacks.



Well he won't be coming up with a strategy with attacks he never seen before. If he sees them once and avoids them, he can probably counter them or avoid them say using a riot shield nearby. But the very thing is, ONE HIT from any basic attack from cole will stun him. And that could spell the doom of him. If Cole's attacks didn't stun, Alex would probably win. But Coles attacks are all lightning and stuns, downs civilians too in one hit. So that's the point. If Alex gets hit once by an attack he never expected from Cole, say a tornado or field of ice, he's dead. And Cole has a lot of shocking varying attacks.



Problem is, he doesn't instantly adapt. Remember the bloodtox gas? Or being knocked around by the Hutners' melee attacks? If he truly adapts in seconds then he would be negating the hunters' attacks already. Sure he can dodge them but his body should've made him invulnerable to blunt force if he was adapting to everything. Bloodtox took a long time to adapt too. And that virus Cross used to weaken him took a long time to adapt to and he needed a cure from that Doctor guy. With lightning being an energy he never dealt with before not to mention ice, well he's not adapting out of that I believe.



Don't forget the vaporizing black hole and nuke survival. Simply too much.



Ah great! Thanks, actually want to read the full comics not just the full scans but I can't find them in Canada.

Ah I see. I've taken a possibly eternal break from debating (by debating I meant full on debates like this. Not simple creating threads and casually making one liners)

Good lately. Been very busy. Glad I could get my hands on Second Son. Its like the lovechild of Prototype and Infamous, only a bit shorter and more dubstepy. But still very busy, working on a fic too


Working to catch up on some mangas too

Yes but Alex is far superior to soldiers, when you were referring to Coles accuracy.

Now, then thats obviously much better for Cole, and I can try and come up with a different scenario for Alex to win, the whipfist....

He can whip both arms at sonic speeds (note; you cannot track it with visually & the snap you hear is actually the sound of well....the sound barrier being broke) we know when Alex is fully upgraded he has a lot of range with it, and by P2 he can apply it to both arms and combine powers instantly.


I def believe Mercer will be able find a strategy to deal with coles attacks, his mind is like Google.

We have seen Mercer one shot countless choppers, vehicles and roundabout most things with that whipfist of his (its actuallu is most dangerous attack speed + damage output)

But in that scenario it will be who jumps the gun first; you said it eas bullet time, I know whips travel at just under the speed of a bullet from typical assault rifles. Now I dont doubt if Cole can use his precision time and be like oh look, a giant whip like arm, but what I do doubt is if he actually has the reaction speed to activate that ability while its coming at him at about 900mph and I know he doesnt have the physical capacity do dodge something at that speed; but he can watch it in slow mo rip through his chest, while he gets at least 1 or 2 zaps in on Mercer.

But Mercer will be stunned, Cole will be dead.

Also about the Bloodtox, Cross used a virus to attack a virus....sort of a double negative; cancelling the other out. Plus it was also specific for Alex's variant of the virus, thats why in P2 by then Alex has become immune to Bloodtox, which is why when he released the virus again, Bloodtox is useless against any infected being because all the infected are directly from Alex's own variant.

Also, I said he couldnt adapt on the fly, it takes time.

And ice? C'mon.....this is a guy who can shatter cars and choppers with one blow and tear tanks and entire building apart with his bare hands.

And he did adapt against blunt & sharp force attacks with the Armor but obviously because it is a game, they have to handicap you...nake you slow and all that shit, but i THINK they fixed that in the comics.
But I am not arguing the armor at all because it is useless here.
Fully upgraded Mercer is immune to most things actually, from blunt force ro being bullet proof.


Good.
And yeah, i havent debated like this for a long time, You should check the DC website, it should be on there.
I remember we were talking about Second Sob last year, still havent gotten round to it yet.

Oh yeah? Well PM when you have it up and send me the link, I'd like to read it.

I also think we should probably call this a 5/10 for both characters.
Too many variables.

Although I dont think Cole would just start spamming Mercer with bolts, probably zap him once he can, maybe once more and then attempt to approach Mercer which would be a big mistake.


And yep, beast cole is crazy powerful.

DatCanadian
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Yes but Alex is far superior to soldiers, when you were referring to Coles accuracy.

With that said, I'd like to say Cole is also superior to Gangs who mind control people, telekinetic golem makers, an organization 100 years ahead of their time, the military, the Militia, The Corrupted (which have some freaky monsters) and the Vemaak.

The latter two were shown in a cutscene to be powerful enough to change the arms deal in war and become powerful superweapons capable of trumping the military.



Huh really? Usually flesh moving at that speed would be suffering from burns but this is video game were talking about. Can I ask a question though. Does Alex need to stop and pull back his arm to throw the attack? And what do you mean combine both powers?




I agree. First time he sees an attack it'll surprise him but he'll figure his way out. How? I have no clue, you better tell me. But Cole still has more varied and random attacks compared to Alex.



Same with Cole's rockets and lightning storm. Not in game of course.



Yes but I remember whenever you use the whipfist on Cross he would just zap it zapping you in the process. Believe me I tried, you can also try it. So is it really supersonic? Or does that mean the moment it makes contact something with electricity it just halts and spasms?

Of course thinking back, shockwave has repelled a lot of projectiles. At best it could probably make the whipfist miss. Reason why I think Cole can react to that, is aim dodge. The moment Alex pulls back a whip like arm, I think its fair to say people will try to dodge, especially if you fought mutants before with different attacks



Oh man flying Alex. That's a thought. Death Angel Alex.
Anyway that makes sense, the bloodtox and all.

Ah no I'm more focused on the dmg effect. With the sudden use of sub-zero attacks (game description) on Cole, it'll probably be more damaging than restraining. If it does restrain, well Cole has enough time to use the storm.

Hmm, still didn't think so. It came after the doctor's injection to cure you. Oh well. Regardless those still took time. Electricity will take time too then.




Ooh, interesting. Tell me more.



Sure, both badass characters anyway. But I'm leaning and giving Cole a 5.0001



Hmm, well his radar pulse always ensures that enemies pop up in his radar. He's probably only going to stop if the thing stops moving and the red mark on his map disappears. But since Alex has a web of intrigue and can probably still think, I don't think Cole will stop easily unless he restrains Alex with something.



Yup. Have you seen Composite Cole? Craziest op characters ever.


By the way you double posted. And regarding you two and the fanfic.

Its a fanfic. But then again I'm also working on a snippet. An original one. Which involves the main character who can time travel dying again and again and having to give their own mind to their pervious selves to increase the chance of winning against a disastrous enemy.

Anyway its confusing. But I'm working on a Crossover involving Delsin Rowe. And lately Cole MacGrath's included in that too. Both of them ending up in a world with only magic, no modern things.

Still no prototype crossover I'm afraid

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Let's back up for a bit. Are you claiming if we the player (or audience) can see a character they aren't using super speed?

Estacado
Mercer puts on his armor and muscle mass runs up to Cole and punches his head off.

LeonBuco666
Estacado, no....because not only would he be like a tank, the armor will be useless.
He doesnt need the muscle mass to punch his head off.

And DatCanadian, I can live with 5.0001 lol.

Sounds good, let me know when its finished!

DatCanadian
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix



I knew I missed a question.
And yes that's why I'm saying. Even the other soldiers could see him in a cutscene. And remember the chase scene with Dana? If Alex was truly fast he would've caught up to that thing in an instant. He didn't, there was a long chase.

And those things are sure as hell not above supersonic speed.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Estacado, no....because not only would he be like a tank, the armor will be useless.
He doesnt need the muscle mass to punch his head off.

And DatCanadian, I can live with 5.0001 lol.

Sounds good, let me know when its finished!

Yup, he'll probably make Cole's head explode. Or get shredded by lightning.

I'll let you know. I already posted the initial chapters on another site for the crossover. The snippets, I can just send to someone

LeonBuco666
It was for plot and entertainment btw, it would have been pretty shitty for him to just catch it up to it, like if The Flash comics truly represented how fast Flash actually was, he could get it all done with about 4 panels. Borings.

He can outrun helicopters easily, they move pretty fast.

DatCanadian
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
It was for plot and entertainment btw, it would have been pretty shitty for him to just catch it up to it, like if The Flash comics truly represented how fast Flash actually was, he could get it all done with about 4 panels. Borings.

He can outrun helicopters easily, they move pretty fast.

Even then there were other scenarios that could've been solved in an instant. That includes dealing with Cross or the giant slow supreme hunter.

Really, its annoying when PIS happens to games. Makes things confusing.

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by DatCanadian
Even then there were other scenarios that could've been solved in an instant. That includes dealing with Cross or the giant slow supreme hunter.

Really, its annoying when PIS happens to games. Makes things confusing.

Yes, that is why we have Hulk: Ultimate Destruction to laugh at.

ScreamPaste
PIS in general is always annoying. Always.

Lek Kuen
If the soldiers saw him yeah he wasnt moving all that fast, but using us as an example is dumb. Human eyes can't see a lot of things but a flash game where we can never control him or ever see him would be dumb. We can't even see bullets a character going hypersonic would be invisible unless they were really large. We the audience and player can see things because otherwise it would be pointless. Even the blurs you like is too much being visible sometimes and is really just a style thing anyway.

LeonBuco666
If characters moved to fast it"d be far to hard to control em'.

Wei Phoenix
Quicksilver was slow as shit in that movie because I could see everything he did easily.

Estacado
Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Estacado, no....because not only would he be like a tank, the armor will be useless.
He doesnt need the muscle mass to punch his head off.

And DatCanadian, I can live with 5.0001 lol.

Sounds good, let me know when its finished!
My scenario sounds much cooler....uhuh

LeonBuco666
Originally posted by Estacado
My scenario sounds much cooler....uhuh

Yes, you win.

DatCanadian
Originally posted by Estacado
My scenario sounds much cooler....uhuh


Yours might be cooler, but you'll never have a scenario of beautiful multiple lightning bolts striking the same target like Zeus commands it!



Alright I'll stop using that section of argument then

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