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The Elite are doing their vigilantes for Justice thing and decided that Doom must pay for Crimes against humanity. They invade Latveria intending to kill the good ole doctor. Can they do it?


Scenario 1: Doom has no idea they are coming for him until they reach the front gate of his castle

Scenario: Doom has already prepped for their arrival hours ago


Who wins?

So can Doom use castle defenses, tech lying around, and doombots in scenario 1?

No prep, certainly the Elite. With prep, it's much more up in the air. Depends on how much prep.

Originally posted by Mindset
So can Doom use castle defenses, tech lying around, and doombots in scenario 1?

Yes. But in scenario he isn't prepared for them. In Scenario 2 he gets a few hours prep for the invasion.

1. Elite
2. Doom

Doom in both.

Lol, Doom in both

Originally posted by Odekahn
1. Elite
2. Doom

So Doom sees them at the front gate of his castle in scenario 1? And they basically have to get in?


Doom in both.

Coldcast can knock out most of the automated defenses and Doombots on his own, and The Hat can deal with mystic ones. I don't think the normal stuff will hold off the Elite.

Doom for both

Originally posted by Odekahn
1. Elite
2. Doom

What does Doom have by default that makes anyone think the Elite can't bust his base?

'Chester leaves him drooling on the floor.

How?

cause superman, duh

Mindwipe bro.

Doom in both.

So in scenario 1 dooms defenses keep the elite busy ( which they will atleast for a little while) while Doom works out something truly nasty?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mindwipe bro. Through his tp defenses?

Yes.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
So in scenario 1 dooms defenses keep the elite busy ( which they will atleast for a little while) while Doom works out something truly nasty?


The Elite is three heralds and a high meta. One of the heralds has extremely high-powered EMP that has disabled super-advanced tech before (Coldcast has knocked out Vera Black's systems, and they're impressive stuff).

Dooms defenses- unless specifically prepared for the team specifically- are not going to last long!

Originally posted by JayDaDon
So in scenario 1 dooms defenses keep the elite busy ( which they will atleast for a little while) while Doom works out something truly nasty?

Doombots and castle traps aren't stopping the Elite. By the time Doom figured out who it was attacking him, they would already be upon him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. How?

Originally posted by Mindset
Through his tp defenses?

Doom has passive TP resistances powerful enough to keep out Black, who was able to affect Superman through his TP resistances?

Originally posted by Odekahn
Doom has passive TP resistances powerful enough to keep out Black, who was able to affect Superman through his TP resistances? It's not passive, it's always on.

In addition to him being able to resist planetary level tp with just his own willpower...you tell me.

Originally posted by Q99
The Elite is three heralds and a high meta. One of the heralds has extremely high-powered EMP that has disabled super-advanced tech before (Coldcast has knocked out Vera Black's systems, and they're impressive stuff).

Dooms defenses- unless specifically prepared for the team specifically- are not going to last long! Doom oneshots everyone but MB.

Originally posted by Mindset
It's not passive, it's always on.


http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt11/Odekahn/5172AEB3-6355-4A46-B880-03F78EC16805.jpg




He's not going to be expecting the attack...

Originally posted by Mindset
How?
He's just that powerful.Originally posted by Mindset
It's not passive, it's always on.

In addition to him being able to resist planetary level tp with just his own willpower...you tell me.
Superman has resisted telepathy which dumped the information of a multiverse in his head via willpower and has shrugged off universal level telepathy from Mxy twins.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He's just that powerful.
Superman has resisted telepathy which dumped the information of a multiverse in his head via willpower and has shrugged off universal level telepathy from Mxy twins. Then either MB feat is PIS or Supes other feats are, pick one.

Originally posted by Odekahn
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt11/Odekahn/5172AEB3-6355-4A46-B880-03F78EC16805.jpg




He's not going to be expecting the attack... How wouldn't he be expecting it?

He knows MB is there and he knows he's a telepath.

Originally posted by Mindset
Then either MB feat is PIS or Supes other feats are, pick one.
I pick doom's feats as PIS. Happy?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I pick doom's feats as PIS. Happy? Yup, now I have concrete proof that you don't know anything.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yup Thanks Rapeset.

That wouldn't even be something you would say thanks to...

Originally posted by Mindset
How wouldn't he be expecting it?

He knows MB is there and he knows he's a telepath.

Because in scenario 1 it's says he wouldn't be expecting it...

Originally posted by Odekahn
Because in scenario 1 it's says he wouldn't be expecting it... Reading isn't your strong suit.

1. Elite. Doom is good, but resisting MB, whilst Coldcast is attempting to fry him, whilst Hat is attempting to drop a mountain on him/turn his blood to acid etc etc? Unlikely.

2. Elite. Doom can prep all he wants, but Coldcast is black, MB is one quarter black, and Doom is vulnerable to the black man. Anything else is racist whitewash.

Also depends on which Elite we're talking about. Is Flash there? Manitou Raven? Vera or Manchester? etc etc.

Originally posted by Mindset
Reading isn't your strong suit.

Apparently putting 2 and 2 together isn't yours...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Also depends on which Elite we're talking about. Is Flash there? Manitou Raven? Vera or Manchester? etc etc.

If it's just 'The Elite,' then it's almost always the Manchester team. Though I suppose it could be the Vera/Hat/Coldcast/Menagerie team.


Vera's team with Flash and Manitou would be 'Justice League Elite.'

Originally posted by Q99
If it's just 'The Elite,' then it's almost always the Manchester team. Though I suppose it could be the Vera/Hat/Coldcast/Menagerie team.


Vera's team with Flash and Manitou would be 'Justice League Elite.'

Shush you.

Originally posted by Q99
If it's just 'The Elite,' then it's almost always the Manchester team. Though I suppose it could be the Vera/Hat/Coldcast/Menagerie team.


Vera's team with Flash and Manitou would be 'Justice League Elite.'

Yes I was referring to the team with MB, Coldcast, Hat & Menagerie

Originally posted by Q99
The Elite is three heralds and a high meta. One of the heralds has extremely high-powered EMP that has disabled super-advanced tech before (Coldcast has knocked out Vera Black's systems, and they're impressive stuff).

Dooms defenses- unless specifically prepared for the team specifically- are not going to last long!

But they'll buy him SOME time, he WILL know they're there, he WILL get an idea of they're powers and have time to go to his most dangerous asset, his magic.

^ It's what he did against the Mighty Avengers team that came knocking on his door, and when Nightmare launched his attack, when Thor and his Asgardians came to save Kelda, when the Avengers, Magneto and Young Avengers tried to retrieve Wiccan and Wanda and when Sinister and Loki tried to steal back Loki's genetics.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
But they'll buy him SOME time, he WILL know they're there, he WILL get an idea of they're powers and have time to go to his most dangerous asset, his magic. Hat can counter his magic long enough.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
But they'll buy him SOME time, he WILL know they're there, he WILL get an idea of they're powers and have time to go to his most dangerous asset, his magic.

Not really. I mean, Coldcast's powers are such that he can pretty much knock anything automated out in a moment. He won't get much time, nor will most of them have to unveil their powers.

And they have The Hat like abhilegend mentioned, so they're prepared for magic too.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Apparently putting 2 and 2 together isn't yours... Nope, I was able to easily discern you can't read or, at least, comprehend simple sentences.

Doom.

Chester ain't doing shit to Doom's mind.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Doom.

Chester ain't doing shit to Doom's mind.

He also has TK. And a massively powerful team.

Originally posted by Q99
He also has TK. And a massively powerful team.

And Doom has top tier magic and tech on hand and one of the most powerful country's resources to call back on. Guy can summon Doombots and Mindless Ones as well, all of which have feats showing them taking on teams of heroes and doing pretty well...if not winning.

I really don't think the Elite can waltz into Latveria and own Doom, let alone in the scenario where he's prepped.

You've been missed.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And Doom has top tier magic and tech on hand and one of the most powerful country's resources to call back on. Guy can summon Doombots and Mindless Ones as well, all of which have feats showing them taking on teams of heroes and doing pretty well...if not winning.

And the Elite has a high-end magic being and a guy who can shut down even supertech easily.

Summon 20 Doombots? Coldcast shuts 'em all down solo. Mindless Ones? The Hat contains them with his magic.


Those resources? Most of them couldn't get there before the fights over, and if they did, they're more likely to fall to Manchester's mind control than fight against him.


Yea, Doom has plenty of cards and all... but this isn't just a team, it's an all-heavy-hitters team pretty much, and in the no-prep scenario, there's not really going to be anything on hand that's going to require the full team's effort.

^ Doombots, Castle Doom and Doom himself probably sh1t on the Elite's feats. But I get that nearly defeating Superman is a hard feat to overcome in many people's minds.

Originally posted by Q99
And the Elite has a high-end magic being and a guy who can shut down even supertech easily.

Summon 20 Doombots? Coldcast shuts 'em all down solo. Mindless Ones? The Hat contains them with his magic.


Those resources? Most of them couldn't get there before the fights over, and if they did, they're more likely to fall to Manchester's mind control than fight against him.


Yea, Doom has plenty of cards and all... but this isn't just a team, it's an all-heavy-hitters team pretty much, and in the no-prep scenario, there's not really going to be anything on hand that's going to require the full team's effort.

Considering the teams and beings a non-prepped Doom can handle and do well against, let alone in the heart of Latveria, to say that there won't be anything there that would require their full effort is...well, a stretch at the very least.

There's also the fact that Doombots aren't easily shut down solo and Doom's Mindless Ones aren't easily contained, either. And there's Doom himself, who, really, speaks for himself when it comes to feats.

The Avengers that went after Doom were heavy hitters, too. And they had to use their full effort.

Heh, Elite were tossing around enough energy to ignite sun, split a moon in half and Coldcast himself was deemed more powerful than superman. I would just post this scan to show what power level they were playing at.

http://i.imgur.com/qQr45Gm.jpg

But hey, doom based on his 10000 appearances can beat a group rivaling JLA in power without any prep.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Heh, Elite were tossing around enough energy to ignite sun, split a moon in half and Coldcast himself was deemed more powerful than superman. I would just post this scan to show what power level they were playing at.

http://i.imgur.com/qQr45Gm.jpg

But hey, doom based on his 10000 appearances can beat a group rivaling JLA in power. He has never been beaten after all.

Yeah, Doom's pretty much the best character in comics.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, Doom's pretty much the best character in comics. Abhi has finally seen the light.

Originally posted by Mindset
Abhi has finally seen the light.

I'm glad I returned just in time to see his new found growth as a human being.

I had almost given up hope, but all is possible with Doom's love.

I'm proud of you, Abhi.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, Doom's pretty much the best character in comics.


Doom gets beaten and left drooling on the floor.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Doom gets beaten and left drooling on the floor.

It's such a life like Doombot the Elite manage to beat - barely - that they don't even notice Doom until it's too late.

They die, horribly.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's such a life like Doombot the Elite manage to beat - barely - that they don't even notice Doom until it's too late.

They die, horribly.
Nope.

http://i.imgur.com/2RdMbO5.jpg

Originally posted by ODG
^ Doombots, Castle Doom and Doom himself probably sh1t on the Elite's feats. But I get that nearly defeating Superman is a hard feat to overcome in many people's minds.

You know, one of the things I've cited several times is "Coldcast's energy abilities have shut down high-end supertech easily, he could shut down groups of Doombots no problem."

And the response?

Doombots.


I do not think you are actually paying attention




Yes, which is why it's a good thing there's a *team* of heralds here.




Nope, but Coldcast can shut down Vera Black with an area-effect blast. And she's got an alien tech heart, morphing robotic limbs, forcefields, the works.

While it's not easy, Coldcast is one super who has very little trouble with such foes. It'll drain some of his charge but it won't even keep him from the main event.



Agreed. However, there is the Hat, a high-level magical being who uses runes and so on and is an expy of the Authority's Doctor. Even if it takes a lot of effort, he could certainly keep them off the rest of the team.




Of course, but still, multiple heralds. One of whom can handle the Doombots and automated defenses on his own. Another of whom is major mystic mojo who can deal with mystic defenses.


The 'Doom's defenses will handle it, they have X and Y,' leaves half the Elite, including Chester himself, entirely without anything to do except go for Doom himself.


Doom is certainly nothing to laugh at, but the Elite is a team of such magnitude that his normal no-special-prep defenses just aren't going to cut it. He'll be on his own in very short order, going by the Elite's feats.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, Doom's pretty much the best character in comics.

YOU SIR

Originally posted by Q99
You know, one of the things I've cited several times is "Coldcast's energy abilities have shut down high-end supertech easily, he could shut down groups of Doombots no problem."

And the response?

Doombots.


I do not think you are actually paying attention




Yes, which is why it's a good thing there's a *team* of heralds here.




Nope, but Coldcast can shut down Vera Black with an area-effect blast. And she's got an alien tech heart, morphing robotic limbs, forcefields, the works.

While it's not easy, Coldcast is one super who has very little trouble with such foes. It'll drain some of his charge but it won't even keep him from the main event.



Agreed. However, there is the Hat, a high-level magical being who uses runes and so on and is an expy of the Authority's Doctor. Even if it takes a lot of effort, he could certainly keep them off the rest of the team.




Of course, but still, multiple heralds. One of whom can handle the Doombots and automated defenses on his own. Another of whom is major mystic mojo who can deal with mystic defenses.


The 'Doom's defenses will handle it, they have X and Y,' leaves half the Elite, including Chester himself, entirely without anything to do except go for Doom himself.


Doom is certainly nothing to laugh at, but the Elite is a team of such magnitude that his normal no-special-prep defenses just aren't going to cut it. He'll be on his own in very short order, going by the Elite's feats.

The Avengers had heralds on the team, too. They didn't have an easy time of getting through Latveria's defenses at all. And Stark is a proficient technopath with tons of feats when it comes to shutting down tech and a genius who actually has years of experience dealing with Doom. Hell, I'd imagine that outside of that clown Richards, Iron Man is the guy who's tangled with Doom the most. And even with a team backing him up and the experience and knowledge he has knowing who Doom is, couldn't just barge into Latveria easy squeezy. Avengers/Young Avengers/Magneto likewise didn't have a cakewalk entering Latveria.

As far as Vera Black goes, what does she have that is on the same level or superior to Doom's tech?

Being a high powered magical being in of itself doesn't mean you can BFR Doom's minions, let alone take on Doom himself. This is a guy who, prepless, held his own against Morgan Le Fay and since then, has been described as the most knowledgeable and powerful mystic on Marvel Earth. I'd have to catch up on what Doctor Strange is up to recently since he recently became Sorcerer Supreme again, but Doom's magic had been described as being > Strange's on several occasions.

I really doubt Coldcast can more or less solo Latveria's defenses on his own considering the forces Latveria has repelled. He'd definitely need the rest of the Elite to help him. And that's without factoring in Doom himself entering the fray.

The Avengers didn't have a herald specifically with EM powers good for shutting down defenses, and they almost never have a mage the level of Hat with them.

And most of the time when the Avengers have gone against Latveria, they've only had one or maybe two or their heralds, not the heavy-hitter teams.

Also, how many of those times does Doom not know they're coming? Scenario 1 is no prep, after all.





Physically able to go toe-to-toe with Superman, psychic camouflage, forcefields able to block Superman-level attacks, blasters of massive power, self-repairing, yadda yadda. She's a big ball of top level supertech.





I didn't say necessarily BFR, I said hold off. Put up runic defenses or the like, or what have you. Though banishing isn't out of the question either, of course.

And Hat does not have to 'take on Doom himself'. The Hat just has to provide mystic support and counter some of Doom's magic defenses while the others take on Doom.

You're acting like each member of the elite has to deal with all of the defenses and Doom, rather than, say, two of 'em dealing with the defenses first while two hit Doom, and then the prior two joining after they're done.




Fortunately, he has the entire Elite! But, seriously, his EM abilities *will* take out Doombots, shut down automated blasters, etc. etc.. It's what he does, when it comes to energy powers he's way up there.


Don't forget, any people manning defenses could very easily be on the Elite's side thanks to Manchester as well.

Doombots are emp proof.

Fact.

Look it up, nerd.

Originally posted by Mindset
Doombots are emp proof.

Fact.

Look it up, nerd.


Normally, yes. Against Coldcast? Nah. His feats are more impressive.


Hm, did you know he had biological EMP that works not only on people, but on Plastic Man as well?

Emp proof is emp proof.

Of course I knew, I know everything about comics.

Also let me point out Coldcast wouldn't have much problem simply blasting apart Doombots either

This is a *very* high power team who'll hit quite fast.

Yeah, a blast that splits a *moon* in half would rip pretty much every doomboat apart.

soo, doom is in his castle, a castle with surely enough, has defensess. with him having a full knowledge. yeah, dont see how he could lose, not even mindrape would work, okay it might but doom has some TP resistance. in which case he can buy some time, then proceeds to stomping their asses in.

scenario 2 is a no brainer, anyone who says doom loses, is a carver.

Originally posted by Q99
The Avengers didn't have a herald specifically with EM powers good for shutting down defenses, and they almost never have a mage the level of Hat with them.

And most of the time when the Avengers have gone against Latveria, they've only had one or maybe two or their heralds, not the heavy-hitter teams.

Also, how many of those times does Doom not know they're coming? Scenario 1 is no prep, after all. Because Extremis Iron Man and Magneto don't have EM powers good for shutting down defenses, and Scarlet Witch and Wiccan are never with these teams either.

Nobody was referring to Cap's kooky quartet. We've been talking to you about Iron Man's Mighty Avengers team, and the Avengers/Young Avengers/Magneto squad that came knocking. It doesn't look like you're addressing what is actually being said.

Doom didn't know these guys were coming either. Or Nightmare's Army of the Unreal. Or Sinister/Loki. Etc. Etc. We get that out in the open, without Castle Doom and his personal army, and ambushed by bush-league tactics, Dr. Doom can be defeated by someone like... a prepped Morganna le Fay? This isn't that scenario. Neither of them are.

Originally posted by Mindset
Emp proof is emp proof.

Of course I knew, I know everything about comics.

/facepalm

Originally posted by Odekahn
/facepalm It must be embarrassing to be you.

Originally posted by Mindset
It must be embarrassing to be you.

Why's that?

Originally posted by Odekahn
Why's that? You're stoopid.

Originally posted by Mindset
You're stoopid.

k

Originally posted by Odekahn
k I bet you feel so sad right now knowing that you don't have my respect as a fellow kmc member.

Originally posted by Mindset
I bet you feel so sad right now knowing that you don't have my respect as a fellow kmc member.

so sad *tears*

Doom