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The Builders, Engineers, Alephs etc (as seen throughout Infinity).

VS

The Earth Pantheon that faced The Celestials.


Now that we know that The Builders are basically insignificant, in the grand, grand scheme of things. How would they do against the pantheon that The Celestials humbled?

Odin, Zeus or Vishnu (if he's indeed their peer power wise) could solo.

Odin definitely solos

I don't know about solo-ing, we're talking the whole host of Builders, Engineers, Alephs, Ex Nihilos etc.

Originally posted by janus77
I don't know about solo-ing, we're talking the whole host of Builders, Engineers, Alephs, Ex Nihilos etc.
Odin's a confirmed galaxy buster. He for sure can wipe their entire fleet out.

Originally posted by janus77
I don't know about solo-ing, we're talking the whole host of Builders, Engineers, Alephs, Ex Nihilos etc.

Well, there's only one Aleph.

But I don't recall anything the Bulders and co. ever did that would even definitively hurt Odin. He's just so far above high heralds and the like, it's not really comparable.

It's not so much what The Builders (and Co.) can do to hurt the gods, it's that there's a shit-tonne of them and they're supposedly quite ancient and advanced (moreso than Earth or any of its pantheon).

These are, supposedly, the architects of Marvel's universes, they pre-date all but Galactus (unless, they've retconned that too?)...

There must have been something in the whole silly arc that gives some indication of why they are supposedly "The Builders" of the universe?

Originally posted by Cogito
Well, there's only one Aleph.
Aren't there entire squadrons of "Planet razing" Alephs? Surfer destroyed a bunch of them didn't he?

Originally posted by janus77
It's not so much what The Builders (and Co.) can do to hurt the gods, it's that there's a shit-tonne of them and they're supposedly quite ancient and advanced (moreso than Earth or any of its pantheon).

These are, supposedly, the architects of Marvel's universes, they pre-date all but Galactus (unless, they've retconned that too?)...

There must have been something in the whole silly arc that gives some indication of why they are supposedly "The Builders" of the universe?
Nope. Their superstructure only extended to 5000 realities according to Black Swan. She also laughed her @$$ off at them being considered a threat.

PS a fed Galactus would end their existence with a wave of his hand.

Originally posted by janus77
Aren't there entire squadrons of "Planet razing" Alephs? Surfer destroyed a bunch of them didn't he?

My bad, I mistook Aleph with Abyss

Edit: Should be noted that Shang Chi destroyed at least one Aleph, so there's that...

Originally posted by janus77
There must have been something in the whole silly arc that gives some indication of why they are supposedly "The Builders" of the universe? haha

Originally posted by janus77
Aren't there entire squadrons of "Planet razing" Alephs? Surfer destroyed a bunch of them didn't he? All they were was glass canons. Sure they can destroy planets, but they can't take a hit to save their lives.

Odin or Zeus solos.

This is sad. I really was hoping somebody would be able to point to something and say - See! they're not as crap and silly as you thought, they were just misunderstood!

Wasn't there anything more about their battle with The Celestials, their God Killer (I notice our resident KMC God Killer's dropped the name quite fast!). Did that blimp full of hype float? Did they have any other tools???


Sad, sad, sad. I'm not liking the Black Swan business (though I do love her condescension towards Reed). 5000 realities? Sounds too much like DC silliness ...


It's coming time for that great big omniversal retcon punch ...

Originally posted by janus77
This is sad. I really was hoping somebody would be able to point to something and say - See! they're not as crap and silly as you thought, they were just misunderstood!

Wasn't there anything more about their battle with The Celestials, their God Killer (I notice our resident KMC God Killer's dropped the name quite fast!). Did that blimp full of hype float? Did they have any other tools???


Sad, sad, sad. I'm not liking the Black Swan business (though I do love her condescension towards Reed). 5000 realities? Sounds too much like DC silliness ...


It's coming time for that great big omniversal retcon punch ... One Builder solo'ed the Annihilation Wave via hivemind telepathy... but that's not really relevant to much considering it was only done because the Annihilation was a Hivemind.

I should hope they were never stupid enough to fight the Celestials. They would have gotten scrapped by one. And the Godkiller wasn't theirs.

5000 realities out of infinity isn't that much.

I thought they used the God Killer to "turn the tide" in their battle with The Celestials?

Ah yes, the hivemind thing, forgot about that. One of the few decent laughs (I think it was intentional) in the whole misery-fest of an arc.

Originally posted by janus77
This is sad. I really was hoping somebody would be able to point to something and say - See! they're not as crap and silly as you thought, they were just misunderstood!

Wasn't there anything more about their battle with The Celestials, their God Killer (I notice our resident KMC God Killer's dropped the name quite fast!). Did that blimp full of hype float? Did they have any other tools???


Sad, sad, sad. I'm not liking the Black Swan business (though I do love her condescension towards Reed). 5000 realities? Sounds too much like DC silliness ...


It's coming time for that great big omniversal retcon punch ...
This was done on purpose. The Builders were just part one of a three part threat matrix (each being more dangerous than the last). Part 2 is the Great Destroyer from the NA arc.

The Great Destroyer or whatever that tentacled thing was that Black Swan spoke of, looked like a re-tread of The Many Angled Ones.

It's either a huge expansion of the omniverse of a very sloppy palimpsest going on. With The Celestials replaced by The Builders, then suddenly this zoom out perspective where we learn that The Builders were as nothing to the horrors that await, the inevitable eventual death of Earth and the Universe (such a threat has never been seen before!) at the hands of the GD ...

Quite a lot of things are just happening without any reflection within the comics, it seems.

Originally posted by janus77
The Great Destroyer or whatever that tentacled thing was that Black Swan spoke of, looked like a re-tread of The Many Angled Ones.

It's either a huge expansion of the omniverse of a very sloppy palimpsest going on. With The Celestials replaced by The Builders, then suddenly this zoom out perspective where we learn that The Builders were as nothing to the horrors that await, the inevitable eventual death of Earth and the Universe (such a threat has never been seen before!) at the hands of the GD ...

Quite a lot of things are just happening without any reflection within the comics, it seems.
Oh for sure. You remember this?
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130405003053/marveldatabase/images/thumb/d/de/Avengers_Vol_5_9.jpg/300px-Avengers_Vol_5_9.jpg
Tagline : "Watch as the most dangerous weapon in the Universe is unleashed."

And after all that build up what did we get? A herald level character!

So much fail.

Originally posted by janus77
I thought they used the God Killer to "turn the tide" in their battle with The Celestials?

Ah yes, the hivemind thing, forgot about that. One of the few decent laughs (I think it was intentional) in the whole misery-fest of an arc. Different race

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Different race
Really? Who/What were they? (I really haven't been following this arc).

Originally posted by zopzop
Oh for sure. You remember this?
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130405003053/marveldatabase/images/thumb/d/de/Avengers_Vol_5_9.jpg/300px-Avengers_Vol_5_9.jpg
Tagline : "Watch as the most dangerous weapon in the Universe is unleashed."

And after all that build up what did we get? A herald level character!

So much fail.
lol, true that was and remains a very huge let down.

Originally posted by janus77
Really? Who/What were they? (I really haven't been following this arc). Aspirants

Zop is a hater. How is the Starbreaker a Herald level character?

Originally posted by janus77
Wasn't there anything more about their battle with The Celestials, their God Killer (I notice our resident KMC God Killer's dropped the name quite fast!). Did that blimp full of hype float? Did they have any other tools???
a)That Godkiller wasn't theirs. It was constructed by a now long-dead ancient race called the Aspirants. 451 also set it to auto self-bfr after going into his "I am not a villain, I don't really want this" mode. It's no longer existent inside the 616-reality, instead outside it. Plus, the Builders have so far not been revealed to have had any interaction with Celestials far as I know, though that might change soon seeing what a big fan Hickman is of Celestials.

b)That name change was requested months ago, and seeing how Raz only shows up once in a blue moon, he changed it the moment he saw the request in his inbox recently. If you haven't noticed, quite a few other posters on this site have undergone a similar change.

c)Shut up.