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The 4 Celestials who fighted against Franklin and Galactus.

They will fight against only one of then. If they beat one, they fight against another. How it goes ?

1- Rune King Thor.

2 - Odin + destroyer + RKT + Zeus

Jarnbjorn or any item blessed with the same "simple" enchantment and it's lights out for the Celestials.

RKT stomps.
Odin and crew stomp.

This is spite against the Celestials.

But that require prep, dont ?

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
But that require prep, dont ?
Don't know how much prep a "simple" enchantment would require when you have high class divine magic users like RKT and Odin.

Even failing that, RKT had a high degree of omniscience. He figures out their hyperspace weakness and that's all she wrote.

The Celestials are nothing now. So many ways to annihilate them it's not even funny.

I like how Zop has to give people prep time or powers they never showed to prove his point.

Superman is nothing to Gladiator once he creates a kryptonite gun or starts blasting red sun energy at him

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I like how Zop has to give people prep time or powers they never showed to prove his point.

Superman is nothing to Gladiator once he creates a kryptonite gun or starts blasting red sun energy at him
Or better yet, RKT uses his omniscience and teleports Reed's "Celestial Killer" gun into his hands and goes to town on them like Rambo.

Or his omniscience makes him aware of the Godkiller armor and he jumps into it and wipes the entire race of Celestials off the map.

So many ways to destroy the Celestials so little time to choose how to do it.

The Celestials teleport LT to punch Thor in the ovaries.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The Celestials teleport LT to punch Thor in the ovaries.
NEVER!

RKT summons the Builders and they comatose the LT...............again!

The Celestials call forth Kirk Douglas and he kills RKT again

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The Celestials call forth Kirk Douglas and he kills RKT again
sadwalk

Originally posted by zopzop
Don't know how much prep a "simple" enchantment would require when you have high class divine magic users like RKT and Odin.

Even failing that, RKT had a high degree of omniscience. He figures out their hyperspace weakness and that's all she wrote.

The Celestials are nothing now. So many ways to annihilate them it's not even funny.
Predictable.

Mad Celestials win in a stomp. Obviously.

Originally posted by janus77
Mad Celestials win in a stomp. Obviously.

Originally posted by zopzop
Don't know how much prep a "simple" enchantment would require when you have high class divine magic users like RKT and Odin.

Even failing that, RKT had a high degree of omniscience. He figures out their hyperspace weakness and that's all she wrote.

The Celestials are nothing now. So many ways to annihilate them it's not even funny.
Odin feared using that enchantment. Even Brevoort mentioned on his formspring that nothing good will come off the Jarnbjorn hex. Unless specified by the OP, I don't see why this all of a sudden becomes a viable tactic for Thor to use here.

Yeah, because "omniscience" is somehow supposed to enable him to duplicate Sue's powers now. Even though Adult Franklin(universal scale reality warper) never attempted to duplicate her abilities to one-shot the MCs to oblivion despite his own nigh omnipotence and (implied)omniscience.

I await the next comic in which the Celestials get an uber feat like Pak's Extermination run, which'll see you going gaga over them for the next couple months, Mr. Flippity-Floppity-Flop.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Odin feared using that enchantment. Even Brevoort mentioned on his formspring that nothing good will come off the Jarnbjorn hex. Unless specified by the OP, I don't see why this all of a sudden becomes a viable tactic for Thor to use here.

Yeah, because "omniscience" is somehow supposed to enable him to duplicate Sue's powers now. Even though Adult Franklin(universal scale reality warper) never attempted to duplicate her abilities to one-shot the MCs to oblivion despite his own nigh omnipotence and (implied)omniscience.

I await the next comic in which the Celestials get an uber feat like Pak's Extermination run, which'll see you going gaga over them for the next couple months, Mr. Flippity-Floppity-Flop.
Uber feats my @$$. They're finished. I don't care if he has a Celestial soloing the LT (who just got his own @$$ handed to him by freaking Builders).

The only thing that can save them is if this entire BS about hyperspace weakness (that Hickman could have retconned but didn't and instead restated), the Reed Gun incident (also Hickman stupidity), the "simple" Asgardian enchanted Axe incident, the Godkiller genocide, etc.. are all just the Celestials playing a game like they did with the Beyonder during SWII.

Otherwise it doesn't matter what "uber" feat they have, their durability is suspect and their weaknesses easily exploitable.

I don't see what RKT's team can do once the Mad Celestials decide to merge. They become strong enough to one-shot a very fed Galactus.

Originally posted by zopzop
Uber feats my @$$. They're finished. I don't care if he has a Celestial soloing the LT (who just got his own @$$ handed to him by freaking Builders).

The only thing that can save them is if this entire BS about hyperspace weakness (that Hickman could have retconned but didn't and instead restated), the Reed Gun incident (also Hickman stupidity), the "simple" Asgardian enchanted Axe incident, the Godkiller genocide, etc.. are all just the Celestials playing a game like they did with the Beyonder during SWII.

Otherwise it doesn't matter what "uber" feat they have, their durability is suspect and their weaknesses easily exploitable.
We'll talk a month from now when you flip-flop back to wanking the sh1t out of the Celestials. Also, lawl at sticking to that outlier feat for the Builders. I am not yet up to date with my Infinity stuff, but when I am, you best find a nice rock to hide under, because I'll search any and all context that you're conveniently leaving out here in your zoppy attempt to lowball.

The very same Hickman had them going rounds with an assembly of Reeds equipped with alternate IGs and UNs. The very same Hickman had a universal level reality manipulator struggle to beat just 3 of the Mad Celestials. Your tendency to stick to one particular showing and parade it across the entire forum is quite amusing, notwithstanding its boorishness and annoyance level of 10000.

How is their durability suspect? Under Hickman it took an amped Johnny going beyond the temperature of the Sun to melt a portion of their armor(which immediately regenerated in the next panel) and under Remender their shells have literally been referred to as impenetrable barring the special hex which enables an object to pierce their armor.

Originally posted by zopzop
Or better yet, RKT uses his omniscience and teleports Reed's "Celestial Killer" gun into his hands and goes to town on them like Rambo.

Or his omniscience makes him aware of the Godkiller armor and he jumps into it and wipes the entire race of Celestials off the map.

So many ways to destroy the Celestials so little time to choose how to do it.
The Godkiller armor self-bfred outside of reality. Not sure how Thor is supposed to access it in the first place, not to mention how the heck is he going to pilot it once he even gets his hands on it.

Reed's entropy guns were never seen again after Fantastic Four #572. Still somehow, Thor gets his hands on one because RKT has totally used man-made tech in battle before.

Zop gonna zopflop.

Originally posted by Epicurus
We'll talk a month from now when you flip-flop back to wanking the sh1t out of the Celestials. Also, lawl at sticking to that outlier feat for the Builders. I am not yet up to date with my Infinity stuff, but when I am, you best find a nice rock to hide under, because I'll search any and all context that you're conveniently leaving out here in your zoppy attempt to lowball.

The very same Hickman had them going rounds with an assembly of Reeds equipped with alternate IGs and UNs. The very same Hickman had a universal level reality manipulator struggle to beat just 3 of the Mad Celestials. Your tendency to stick to one particular showing and parade it across the entire forum is quite amusing, notwithstanding its boorishness and annoyance level of 10000.

How is their durability suspect? Under Hickman it took an amped Johnny going beyond the temperature of the Sun to melt a portion of their armor(which immediately regenerated in the next panel) and under Remender their shells have literally been referred to as impenetrable barring the special hex which enables an object to pierce their armor.
What part of "unless the showings I just mentioned are retconned into being the Celestials playing a game like they did with the Beyonder in SWII", NOTHING changes.

Those IGs were NON functional during that Mad Celestial encounter because they were outside their respective universes. So I don't get what bringing them up proves. When they did manage to get one working, he slagged every Celestial he managed to hit before the Reed acting as a portal to that IG's respective universe overloaded.

The UN failed to dent them but Johnny's "Sun" level flame melts their armor. Phucking fail UNs. Also herald level beings have had to deal with Solar level flame and nothing happened to them. Freaking Thor was walking around the core of the Sun (MILLIONS of degrees Celsius heat and crushing gravity) having a conversation with his half brother without skipping a beat, his clothes weren't even singed. Hickman is a moron.

And have fun with that LT scan. More stupidity from Hickman.

Originally posted by Epicurus
The Godkiller armor self-bfred outside of reality. Not sure how Thor is supposed to access it in the first place, not to mention how the heck is he going to pilot it once he even gets his hands on it.

Reed's entropy guns were never seen again after Fantastic Four #572. Still somehow, Thor gets his hands on one because RKT has totally used man-made tech in battle before.
Easily exploitable hyperspace weakness? Check.
"Simple" (the writers own words not mine) Asgardian enchantment weakness. Check.
Two UBER Asgardian magic users in this thread? Check.

The Reed gun and GK armor were made in jest but I don't see why RKT can't replicate Reed's Gun feat.

Has it been confirmed that The Builders killed LT?? If so, where, which comic?

Originally posted by janus77
Has it been confirmed that The Builders killed LT?? If so, where, which comic?
Does it matter? Anything less than a multiversal level threat like the Protege/Scathan/HotU/Pre-Retcon Beyonder/MM doing that to the LT is pure PIS and stupidity on Hickman's part.

Ah, so nothing yet. Good. I'm waiting for Hulk to smash LT. It's the only logical reason for LT dying.

Originally posted by zopzop
What part of "unless the showings I just mentioned are retconned into being the Celestials playing a game like they did with the Beyonder in SWII", NOTHING changes.

Those IGs were NON functional during that Mad Celestial encounter because they were outside their respective universes. So I don't get what bringing them up proves. When they did manage to get one working, he slagged every Celestial he managed to hit before the Reed acting as a portal to that IG's respective universe overloaded.

The UN failed to dent them but Johnny's "Sun" level flame melts their armor. Phucking fail UNs. Also herald level beings have had to deal with Solar level flame and nothing happened to them. Freaking Thor was walking around the core of the Sun (MILLIONS of degrees Celsius heat and crushing gravity) having a conversation with his half brother without skipping a beat, his clothes weren't even singed. Hickman is a moron.

And have fun with that LT scan. More stupidity from Hickman.

Them fighting a Reed who was able to access his native universe disagrees with you.

It wasn't a Solar level flame. It was clearly mentioned to burn hotter than the sun, which is logical seeing how Johnny's displayed the ability to go nova level temperature on his own before. CCR-amped Johnny slagging their armor was almost akin to an amped Johnny managing to incapacitate the Marquis of Death by melting the very fabric of space-time with Planck temperature.

So, you're not actually going to bother bringing up the Builder/LT scene to defend your case then? That counts as a cloaked concession.
Originally posted by zopzop

Easily exploitable hyperspace weakness? Check.
"Simple" (the writers own words not mine) Asgardian enchantment weakness. Check.
Two UBER Asgardian magic users in this thread? Check.

The Reed gun and GK armor were made in jest but I don't see why RKT can't replicate Reed's Gun feat.
No confirmation that this hyperspace-weakness is easily exploitable, or anyone apart from Sue can utilize it? Check.
No confirmation that RKT would even resort to using magic which even Odin finds disgusting? Check.
No confirmation that RKT has ever used man-made or alien-made tech in the past before? Check.
You're an idiot? Check.
Mad Celestials handily win this thread? Check.

Originally posted by zopzop
Does it matter? Anything less than a multiversal level threat like the Protege/Scathan/HotU/Pre-Retcon Beyonder/MM doing that to the LT is pure PIS and stupidity on Hickman's part.
So you concede that it's all speculation on your part? Good.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Them fighting a Reed who was able to access his native universe disagrees with you.

It wasn't a Solar level flame. It was clearly mentioned to burn hotter than the sun, which is logical seeing how Johnny's displayed the ability to go nova level temperature on his own before. CCR-amped Johnny slagging their armor was almost akin to an amped Johnny managing to incapacitate the Marquis of Death by melting the very fabric of space-time with Planck temperature.

So, you're not actually going to bother bringing up the Builder/LT scene to defend your case then? That counts as a cloaked concession.

No confirmation that this hyperspace-weakness is easily exploitable, or anyone apart from Sue can utilize it? Check.
No confirmation that RKT would even resort to using magic which even Odin finds disgusting? Check.
No confirmation that RKT has ever used man-made or alien-made tech in the past before? Check.
You're an idiot? Check.
Mad Celestials handily win this thread? Check.
They are fighting to win no? So whether Odin finds "a simple" (again the WRITER'S OWN WORDS) Asgardian disgusting or not has no bearing on this thread.

Anyone capable of replicating Sue's hyperspace constructs can end them. If Sue can do it, and Skrull tech can do it, why can't a Skyfather level+ being do it, especially if he has a high level of omniscience (to discover their weakness).

I haven't conceded anything regarding the Builders/LT scan. But like I told Janus it makes no difference either way, unless a multiversal level threat did that to him, it's PIS and Hickman is a crap writer.

And I also love how you can't post without resorting to personal attacks.

The Celestials get wrecked.

Originally posted by zopzop
They are fighting to win no? So whether Odin finds "a simple" (again the WRITER'S OWN WORDS) Asgardian disgusting or not has no bearing on this thread.

Anyone capable of replicating Sue's hyperspace constructs can end them. If Sue can do it, and Skrull tech can do it, why can't a Skyfather level+ being do it, especially if he has a high level of omniscience (to discover their weakness).

I haven't conceded anything regarding the Builders/LT scan. But like I told Janus it makes no difference either way, unless a multiversal level threat did that to him, it's PIS and Hickman is a crap writer.

And I also love how you can't post without resorting to personal attacks.

The Celestials get wrecked.
He never tried to use it against the Fourth Host. We go by what these characters do in-character per forum rules. Point proven.

You were owned on this point by Galan before. Adult Franklin also never attempted to replicate her powers, even though he has a hereditary relation with her, is a reality manipulator of one of the highest orders, and is likely aware of her kryptoniting effect on their armor as well.

You just admitted that it doesn't matter. You don't know yet yourself. If you do, then post the scans to prove your case, or else shut up with this nonsense about the LT and the Builders.

Each and every argument that you made has been countered, debunked, or just flat-out dismissed as a useless point in favor the Asgardians.

Celestials win this as easily as they did against the amped Galactus.

I don't believe any amount of physical heat can affect abstract concepts.

Imo, UN >>> Johnny's max fire output, or any temperature.

Eson didn't really tank the UN, it was the wielder's fail in that instance.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't believe any amount of physical heat can affect abstract concepts.

Imo, UN >>> Johnny's max fire output, or any temperature.

Eson didn't really tank the UN, it was the wielder's fail in that instance.
Planck temperature affected the Marquis of Death, who's above a number of Abstracts.

I disagree on the UN wielder part, but that discussion is for another time in another place imo.

Originally posted by Epicurus

Planck temperature affected the Marquis of Death, who's above a number of Abstracts.
I don't see him above any Concept.
It still doesn't mater, cause the MoD was a physical being.
So, you can't physically burn time (Eternity) or empty space (Infinity)
unless they take physical forms. (M-body)

Originally posted by Epicurus
No confirmation that RKT would even resort to using magic which even Odin finds disgusting? Check.

Zopzop's nonsense aside, how is this supposed to counter Thor using the Celestial killing enchantment?

Young Thor already knows the enchantment and used it. Odin found the use of the enchantment dangerous because an item of that power can have disastrous consequences, hence the current arc with the Apocalypse twins.

There's no logical reason to stop Odin, and especially Thor from using this enchantment to run a train on the Celestials now that the war with them is over with.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Zopzop's nonsense aside
And then he goes on to make the same point I was trying to get across.

Stay classy Rage.

^
Yeah I'm afraid he did lol.
Mad Celestials form Voltron and it's game over.

Originally posted by zopzop
And then he goes on to make the same point I was trying to get across.

Stay classy Rage.

Okay, I'll be honest. I didn't read any of your posts but out of habit and caution, I wanted to make sure I distanced myself from you.

If you made a similar argument, kudos but from experience, you don't always go about best explaining your points. Anyways, I apologize.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay, I'll be honest. I didn't read any of your posts but out of habit and caution, I wanted to make sure I distanced myself from you.




http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h69/TheColdDick/gifs/Van%20Der%20Beek/iseewhatyoudid.gif

Originally posted by leonidas
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h69/TheColdDick/gifs/Van%20Der%20Beek/iseewhatyoudid.gif
Go easy on him. He wants to be in the good graces of the cool kids on this forum.

RKT loses

Originally posted by zopzop
Go easy on him. He wants to be in the good graces of the cool kids on this forum.
Virgins, yes, apparently. Cool kids? Nooo ...This is a comic-books forum.



Anyway, Mad Celestials instantly annihilate Thor. No time for RKT to even think, before he's wiped from all existence.


Also, why didn't Sue take out the Mad Celestials when they killed Franklin?

Originally posted by janus77
Virgins, yes, apparently. Cool kids? Nooo ...This is a comic-books forum.



Anyway, Mad Celestials instantly annihilate Thor. No time for RKT to even think, before he's wiped from all existence.


Also, why didn't Sue take out the Mad Celestials when they killed Franklin?
That entire run was a clusterphuck.

Galactus ko/kills a Celestial. They merge, take him out. Sol's Hammer rekills the dead Celestial breaking up Voltron. Adult Franklin shows up. Fights the 3 remaining Celestials. Uses Kid Franklin's power to rez his new herald, Galactus. Franklin gets ko/killed, Galactus rezzes him. They beat the Celestials.

Fin.

Originally posted by zopzop
That entire run was a clusterphuck.

Galactus ko/kills a Celestial. They merge, take him out. Sol's Hammer rekills the dead Celestial breaking up Voltron. Adult Franklin shows up. Fights the 3 remaining Celestials. Uses Kid Franklin's power to rez his new herald, Galactus. Franklin gets ko/killed, Galactus rezzes him. They beat the Celestials.

Fin.
As I said a while back, nothing since Annihilation has been good.

It's a toss-up between Chaos Wars and Infinity as to which is the most dire arc. Both had moments that were interesting, but they screwed up everything good about the cosmology of Marvel.

The latter killing what remained of The Celestials' dignity.


Oh and my god was Thanos Initiative boring, ditto Fear Itself.

Originally posted by janus77
Anyway, Mad Celestials instantly annihilate Thor. No time for RKT to even think, before he's wiped from all existence.

Yeah, there's no way that Thor can tank attacks from Celestials as Rune King Thor. It's not as if classic Thor got back up from Celestial attacks.

Or in the case, of Mad Celestials, the Fantastic Four.

Yup, no chance at all of him mounting an offense either. After all, Rune King Thor is no Human Torch (With a Cosmic Rod).

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yup, no chance at all of him mounting an offense either. After all, Rune King Thor is no Human Torch (With a Cosmic Rod).
Indeed he isn't.

Glad to see you can maintain a sense of perspective, in these tricky threads.

Glad to see you're still as objective as ever.

Tell me, can Surfer beat this version of Thor?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Glad to see you're still as objective as ever.

Tell me, can Surfer beat this version of Thor?
Naturally. I'm always objective.

Sometimes that means I tread the fine line between objective and objectionable, but that's usually because others do not see what I see .


Surfer? Sure, Crunch energies would be an instant win.

lol

RKT obliterates Surfer, clearly.

As far as the thread goes, barring plot device weakness exploitation or RKT summoning the axe or trying to make another enchanted weapon in the middle of the fight (somehow), he'd lose.

But would RKT survive The Crunch Energies? Proemial Gods couldn't do it.

Surfer could beat RKT, utilising a one-time energy source, just like Sue beat Celestials.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
RKT summoning the axe or trying to make another enchanted weapon in the middle of the fight (somehow)
I don't get the phucking controversy.

It's a "SIMPLE" (that's the writer's own words) enchantment that YOUNG THOR was able to cast. The only reason it had the "bloodline" stip was because that was a safeguard that was put into place.

If YOUNG THOR can cast this SIMPLE spell, why the phuck can't ODIN or RKT (who was above Odin) do it on the fly?

Originally posted by zopzop
I don't get the phucking controversy.

It's a "SIMPLE" (that's the writer's own words) enchantment that YOUNG THOR was able to cast. The only reason it had the "bloodline" stip was because that was a safeguard that was put into place.

If YOUNG THOR can cast this SIMPLE spell, why the phuck can't ODIN or RKT (who was above Odin) do it on the fly? Explain in detail Thor doing the enchantment

Originally posted by janus77
But would RKT survive The Crunch Energies? Proemial Gods couldn't do it.

Surfer could beat RKT, utilising a one-time energy source, just like Sue beat Celestials.

I think the odds of RKT just massively overpowering Surfer to such a degree he wouldn't be able to mount much of an offense, let alone attempt to utilize the Crunch in any way are far higher than what you seem to be suggesting.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Explain in detail Thor doing the enchantment
All you have to know is YOUNG THOR DID IT.

If he could do it, RKT and Odin should be able to sh|t out SIMPLE enchantments like that at will.

Because that's what it is. A SIMPLE ENCHANTMENT.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think the odds of RKT just massively overpowering Surfer to such a degree he wouldn't be able to mount much of an offense, let alone attempt to utilize the Crunch in any way are far higher than what you seem to be suggesting.
Individually either one of T and A would overpower RKT, yet combined they could not instantly kill or disable Surfer and he did manage to find the strength to channel the Crunch energies.

Originally posted by janus77
Naturally. I'm always objective.

Sometimes that means I tread the fine line between objective and objectionable, but that's usually because others do not see what I see .


Surfer? Sure, Crunch energies would be an instant win.

Thanks for proving my point.

Carry on.

Originally posted by zopzop
I don't get the phucking controversy.

It's a "SIMPLE" (that's the writer's own words) enchantment that YOUNG THOR was able to cast. The only reason it had the "bloodline" stip was because that was a safeguard that was put into place.

If YOUNG THOR can cast this SIMPLE spell, why the phuck can't ODIN or RKT (who was above Odin) do it on the fly?

Because it seems wildly out of character for one? Odin didn't start butchering Celestials because he saw the ramifications of his actions. I'd imagine that even if Odin decided "hey, why the phuck not?", eventually, the entire host would descend upon him and just raze Asgard to the ground.

Furthermore, if Odin was wise enough not to do that, RKT, who's wisdom extends to (relative, of course) omniscience, likely wouldn't resort to such a thing, either.

Believe me, I'm a fan of all things Thor/Asgard, but I really don't see RKT going "lol" and butchering Celestials in a random encounter with that axe.

Originally posted by zopzop
All you have to know is YOUNG THOR DID IT.

If he could do it, RKT and Odin should be able to sh|t out SIMPLE enchantments like that at will.

Because that's what it is. A SIMPLE ENCHANTMENT.
Maybe the magic required a practitioner whose balls hadn't dropped? Like singing castrato, before castration.

You know those Asgardians are all Emo, lots of cutting and self-mutilation is involved in their magics!

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Because it seems wildly out of character for one? Odin didn't start butchering Celestials because he saw the ramifications of his actions. I'd imagine that even if Odin decided "hey, why the phuck not?", eventually, the entire host would descend upon him and just raze Asgard to the ground.

Furthermore, if Odin was wise enough not to do that, RKT, who's wisdom extends to (relative, of course) omniscience, likely wouldn't resort to such a thing, either.

Believe me, I'm a fan of all things Thor/Asgard, but I really don't see RKT going "lol" and butchering Celestials in a random encounter with that axe.
Why not? It's not like they are going on a genocidal purge exterminating the Celestial race (even though they apparently can), they are fighting against 4 ROGUE Celestials in this thread.

Face it. The Celestials lose.
Originally posted by janus77
Maybe the magic required a practitioner whose balls hadn't dropped? Like singing castrato, before castration.

You know those Asgardians are all Emo, lots of cutting and self-mutilation is involved in their magics!
LOL

Originally posted by zopzop
Why not? It's not like they are going on a genocidal purge exterminating the Celestial race (even though they apparently can), they are fighting against 4 ROGUE Celestials in this thread.

Face it. The Celestials lose.

LOL

Outside of Young Thor doing it, who's brash and reckless and not even worthy of Mjolnir yet, there's really no evidence that either Odin or RKT would do it if they're even remotely in character.

Maybe if you gave them prep or something, I could possibly see it. But in a straight up fight, with the Celestials intending to destroy them from the get go? Nah.

I just don't see how you can attribute the actions to a reckless young Thor (the ramifications of which are still being played out) on to his much wiser father and his all-knowing and powerful older self.

Originally posted by zopzop
All you have to know is YOUNG THOR DID IT.

If he could do it, RKT and Odin should be able to sh|t out SIMPLE enchantments like that at will.

Because that's what it is. A SIMPLE ENCHANTMENT. So you have no idea how the enchantment was done, yet you think it's a viable strategy? It could have taken weeks to do. It could have needed the entirely extinct blood of a hippo, it could have needed anything. But you think just because the word "simple" was in it, it was an instant enchantment?

Also, the enchantment only allows you to pierce the armor. Which means he'd have to create an axe, and do the enchantment in the middle of battle.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So you have no idea how the enchantment was done, yet you think it's a viable strategy? It could have taken weeks to do. It could have needed the entirely extinct blood of a hippo, it could have needed anything. But you think just because the word "simple" was in it, it was an instant enchantment?

Really? The only stated requirement was the blood of Odin and no large passage of time was indicated. It seemed that he went after Apocalypse soon after their first battle.

Based on what we know, and we've seen before, the most logical assumption is that a few runes are recited as you spill blood over the item in question. I say a few because it was called a simple enchantment and Thor isn't known for his spell casting, especially that incarnation of Thor.

Sure, you can assume it needed the sperm of the Living Tribunal or something but that seems somewhat unlikely imo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Outside of Young Thor doing it, who's brash and reckless and not even worthy of Mjolnir yet, there's really no evidence that either Odin or RKT would do it if they're even remotely in character.

Maybe if you gave them prep or something, I could possibly see it. But in a straight up fight, with the Celestials intending to destroy them from the get go? Nah.

I just don't see how you can attribute the actions to a reckless young Thor (the ramifications of which are still being played out) on to his much wiser father and his all-knowing and powerful older self.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.

Jake, FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD, the greater ramifications of Celestial slaying don't count because :
a) it's vs FOUR SPECIFIC ONES that aren't even native to 616 reality
b) these FOUR SPECIFIC Celestials are "Rogue"
c) this is a VS thread so greater ramifications be damned, each side is in it to win it

And if THING, FREAKING THING, survived multiple Rogue Celestials attacking him, I'm sure no one on the opposing team in this thread is gonna wilt and die from a blast or two from the Rogues. Sh|t, normal Thor took multiple Celestial blasts before falling down and he was still conscious and fighting.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So you have no idea how the enchantment was done, yet you think it's a viable strategy? It could have taken weeks to do. It could have needed the entirely extinct blood of a hippo, it could have needed anything. But you think just because the word "simple" was in it, it was an instant enchantment?

Also, the enchantment only allows you to pierce the armor. Which means he'd have to create an axe, and do the enchantment in the middle of battle.
It don't matter if it took young Thor 600 years to cast this SIMPLE enchantment, we're talking about RKT and Odin here. RKT and Odin are leagues and tiers above YOUNG THOR in terms of spell casting and enchanting. That's not even debatable.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? The only stated requirement was the blood of Odin
And that was only there as a safe guard, it wasn't a requirement for the actual SIMPLE enchantment. Meaning if the safe guard wasn't here any one and their mother could have cast that spell.

Originally posted by zopzop
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.

Jake, FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD, the greater ramifications of Celestial slaying don't count because :
a) it's vs FOUR SPECIFIC ONES that aren't even native to 616 reality
b) these FOUR SPECIFIC Celestials are "Rogue"
c) this is a VS thread so greater ramifications be damned, each side is in it to win it

And if THING, FREAKING THING, survive multiple Rogue Celestials attacking him, I'm sure no one on the opposing team in this thread is gonna wilt and die from a blast or two from the Rogues. Sh|t, normal Thor took multiple Celestial blasts before falling down and he was still conscious and fighting.


It don't matter if it took young Thor 600 years to cast this SIMPLE enchantment, we're talking about RKT and Odin here. RKT and Odin are leagues and tiers above YOUNG THOR in terms of spell casting and enchanting. That's not even debatable.

Versus threads still have characters operating in character unless otherwise specified.

And in character, the likes of Odin and RKT don't just summon extremely haxxed weapons to fight beings outside their weight class (barring the Destroyer Armor).

And yes, normal Thor has the feats to suggest him enduring a barrage of Celestial fire. And yes, the Rogue Celestials didn't manage to destroy the F4. Not disputing that.

My main argument is against RKT summoning or even using the axe to begin with. Just because a novice and irresponsible Thor does something, doesn't mean Odin or RKT would follow suit.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? The only stated requirement was the blood of Odin and no large passage of time was indicated. It seemed that he went after Apocalypse soon after their first battle.

Based on what we know, and we've seen before, the most logical assumption is that a few runes are recited as you spill blood over the item in question. I say a few because it was called a simple enchantment and Thor isn't known for his spell casting, especially that incarnation of Thor.

Sure, you can assume it needed the sperm of the Living Tribunal or something but that seems somewhat unlikely imo. So we can assume it's a mid battle enchantment then?

Young Thor should have just done it while facing Apocalypse IMO.

Originally posted by zopzop
It don't matter if it took young Thor 600 years to cast this SIMPLE enchantment, we're talking about RKT and Odin here. RKT and Odin are leagues and tiers above YOUNG THOR in terms of spell casting and enchanting. That's not even debatable. That's completely retarded and you know it.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That's completely retarded and you know it.
How is it retarded? A complete freaking NOVICE cast that spell without skipping a beat (because it was, according to the very WRITER, a SIMPLE enchantment).

So it doesn't matter how long it took a magic noob to cast the spell, RKT and Odin aren't magic noobs.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Versus threads still have characters operating in character unless otherwise specified.

And in character, the likes of Odin and RKT don't just summon extremely haxxed weapons to fight beings outside their weight class (barring the Destroyer Armor).

And yes, normal Thor has the feats to suggest him enduring a barrage of Celestial fire. And yes, the Rogue Celestials didn't manage to destroy the F4. Not disputing that.

My main argument is against RKT summoning or even using the axe to begin with. Just because a novice and irresponsible Thor does something, doesn't mean Odin or RKT would follow suit.
So you're basically admitting that RKT or Odin can end this fight solo just by summoning the Axe or enchanting another weapon and going to town on the Rogues, except they won't because they aren't "irresponsible"?

Am I reading you right?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So we can assume it's a mid battle enchantment then?

Young Thor should have just done it while facing Apocalypse IMO.

I think there must be some form of ritual involved (Probably some rune spell over blood) but Rune King Thor is so far and away above Young Thor, particularly in spell casting, that the idea of him not being able to accomplish any enchantment used by young Thor with a wave of his hand difficult to imagine. At least for me.

Now that you mention it, I think he probably cast it when Apocalypse threw the axe into his chest. mhmm

Originally posted by zopzop
How is it retarded? A complete freaking NOVICE cast that spell without skipping a beat (because it was, according to the very WRITER, a SIMPLE enchantment).

So it doesn't matter how long it took a magic noob to cast the spell, RKT and Odin aren't magic noobs. That doesn't mean spells become instant just because they're more versed.

Do you have any proof for that matter of any spell in history becoming faster just because of experience? Proof me Zop.

Also, prove it can be done in the middle of battle. Prove Odin knows how to do it off memory. Prove Thor remembered how to do it. Prove that it needed nothing more than an axe and inciting.



Jesus Christ, the whole reason they have a damned book on the spell in the first place shows Odin would need to look it up to do it.

And people thought the Godblast being used in the middle of battles was reaching... at least we know that can be done...

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Jesus Christ, the whole reason they have a damned book on the spell in the first place shows Odin would need to look it up to do it.



Uh, no it doesn't. Not at all. This was Odin's personal library. Mages learning spells, even those that they can cast in the heat of battle, from books, is literally one of the most common practices in this particular area of fiction.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That doesn't mean spells become instant just because they're more versed.

Do you have any proof for that matter of any spell in history becoming faster just because of experience? Proof me Zop.

Also, prove it can be done in the middle of battle. Prove Odin knows how to do it off memory. Prove Thor remembered how to do it. Prove that it needed nothing more than an axe and inciting.



Jesus Christ, the whole reason they have a damned book on the spell in the first place shows Odin would need to look it up to do it.

And people thought the Godblast being used in the middle of battles was reaching... at least we know that can be done...
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH.

Well we'll see how this plays out, but I'm still sticking to my main points :
a) it wasn't a complex spell, it was a simple enchantment (writer's words)
b) a complete noob performed this enchantment

I'll leave it at that since I'm just repeating myself now.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think there must be some form of ritual involved (Probably some rune spell over blood) but Rune King Thor is so far and away above Young Thor, particularly in spell casting, that the idea of him not being able to accomplish any enchantment used by young Thor with a wave of his hand difficult to imagine. At least for me.

Now that you mention it, I think he probably cast it when Apocalypse threw the axe into his chest. mhmm Well, I'm convinced.

I forgot the time Odin enchanted Odin Sword and killed a bunch of Celestials. Or when not-young Thor did it in his three plus altercations with Celestials.

Originally posted by zopzop
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH.

Well we'll see how this plays out, but I'm still sticking to my main points :
a) it wasn't a complex spell, it was a simple enchantment (writer's words)
b) a complete noob performed this enchantment

I'll leave it at that since I'm just repeating myself now. Right. Completely back out when asked for proof. Classic flopflop

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Uh, no it doesn't. Not at all. This was Odin's personal library. Mages learning spells, even those that they can cast in the heat of battle, from books, is literally one of the most common practices in this particular area of fiction. OK. Panel where Odin retains knowledge of how to do the spell please then?

And has there ever been a scene where Odin read off a book on how to do something?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Right. Completely back out when asked for proof. Classic flopflop


My proof was the writer's own words.

Originally posted by zopzop
My proof was the writer's own words. The writer said it can be done in the middle of battle, and RKT can do it instantly?

Link me to the interview

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The writer said it can be done in the middle of battle, and RKT can do it instantly?

Link me to the interview
http://s18.postimg.org/osxy42t39/ef_Oomoz.jpg
There, let people decide for themselves if RKT or Odin can perform this simple enchantment in the middle of battle.

Originally posted by zopzop
http://s18.postimg.org/osxy42t39/ef_Oomoz.jpg
There, let people decide for themselves if RKT or Odin can perform this simple enchantment in the middle of battle. That doesn't look like the writer saying it can be done in the heat of battle, and RKT can do it instantly.

Can you crop me the words where it says that? Maybe my eyesight is failing me.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That doesn't look like the writer saying it can be done in the heat of battle, and RKT can do it instantly.

Can you crop me the words where it says that? Maybe my eyesight is failing me.
Since we're never going to agree on the enchantment, what's stopping RKT or Odin from tping the already enchanted Axe to their hand and slaughtering the 4 Rogues?

Originally posted by zopzop
Since we're never going to agree on the enchantment, what's stopping RKT or Odin from tping the already enchanted Axe to their hand and slaughtering the 4 Rogues? The same thing stopping the Mad Celestials from summoning 30 more Celestials.

But yeah, I agree with you. But let's take it a step farther, why wouldn't RKT just summon the IG instead of an axe?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well, I'm convinced.

I forgot the time Odin enchanted Odin Sword and killed a bunch of Celestials. Or when not-young Thor did it in his three plus altercations with Celestials.

The Celestial threat of War does not apply in this thread. There is no reason for Odin to be against using such a powerful tool because of the possible ramification of the entire race bearing down on Midgard/Asgard.

Also, you seem to not understand that a spell that was only recently revealed doesn't retroactively begin to exist in past comics.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Panel where Odin retains knowledge of how to do the spell please then?

And has there ever been a scene where Odin read off a book on how to do something?

It was a simple enchantment from Odin's own personal library. Why would there be any reason for him not to know it? Odin's old but he's never shown memory problems if that's what you're implying.

I understand not wanting Odin to use the spell here but resorting to such arguments is insulting to everyone's intelligence. I mean common, everything indicates that Odin came up with it in the first damn place. Not to mention Rune King Thor is in this fight.

We've seen Odin reading before if that's what you're asking.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The Celestial threat of War does not apply in this threat. There is no reason for Odin to be against using such a powerful tool because of the possible ramification of the entire race bearing down on Midgard/Asgard.

Also, you seem to not understand that a spell that was only recently revealed doesn't retroactively begin to exist in past comics.



It was a simple enchantment from Odin's own personal library. And his reaction to Thor at the end of the comic indicates that he knows of it.

I understand not thinking that Odin would use the spell here but resorting to such ridiculously silly arguments is insulting to everyone's intelligence. It was a simple Asgardian spell in Odin's library. Chances are, he invented the damn thing himself.

We've seen Odin reading before if that's what you're asking. It seems to retroactively exist in all threads involving Odin and Celestials though.
But we're not allowed to point out all the times it was never used again outside once? In fact it only seems to be a one of a kind enchantment for that matter...

So... there's no panel of Odin retaining knowledge of how to do it?

When that's the only thing to stop people from thinking that it gets used in the middle of battle with no prep is playing stupid, I can't see how it's any worse than you people actually thinking that with nigh no proof. If you expect me to play stupid to accept it, then I will play stupid, but not to play ball with you.
If you're going to claim he does it in the middle of battle, and it's super easy and instant, then you damned right I'm going to ask proof of how easy it is, and it being accomplished in the middle of battle.

I have no problem with it being involved in a prep battle, but being used in the middle of battle with no proof just because it has an involvement with Young Thor? Stupid.
Though it's not far off every character summoning hyperspace against the Celestials because Zop was scorned. Can't wait till Hulk starts punching in a hyperspace dimension to destroy Celestials in threads.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
It seems to retroactively exist in all threads involving Odin and Celestials though.
But we're not allowed to point out all the times it was never used again outside once? In fact it only seems to be a one of a kind enchantment for that matter...

So... there's no panel of Odin retaining knowledge of how to do it?

When that's the only thing to stop people from thinking that it gets used in the middle of battle with no prep is playing stupid, I can't see how it's any worse than you people actually thinking that with nigh no proof. If you expect me to play stupid to accept it, then I will play stupid, but not to play ball with you.
If you're going to claim he does it in the middle of battle, and it's super easy and instant, then you damned right I'm going to ask proof of how easy it is, and it being accomplished in the middle of battle.

I have no problem with it being involved in a prep battle, but being used in the middle of battle with no proof just because it has an involvement with Young Thor? Stupid.
Though it's not far off every character summoning hyperspace against the Celestials because Zop was scorned. Can't wait till Hulk starts punching in a hyperspace dimension to destroy Celestials in threads.

Agree to disagree.

Although I don't understand how you think Odin and Rune King Thor replicating a simple enchantment (Not easily, just doable) is even remotely as silly as arguing that Odin doesn't know how to cast a spell that he's aware of, is in his own personal library, and was almost certainly created by him.

Hopefully we get to see how Young Thor cast the spell.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Agree to disagree.

Although I don't understand how you think Odin and Rune King Thor replicating a simple enchantment is even remotely as silly as arguing that Odin doesn't know how to cast a spell that he's aware of, in his own library, and was almost certainly created by him. Well, considering neither were shown on panel...

I find both incredibly silly.

But yes, asking for validity of the claims is silly.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well, considering neither were shown on panel...

I find both incredibly silly.

But yes, asking for validity of the claims is silly.

What, the actual spell? Out of curiosity, what exactly do you expect was done? Some large ritual with exotic ingredients?

The only requirement pointed out was the blood of Odin (Which in itself was just a safety lock) and we know it had to be extremely simple as it was cast by young Thor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What, the actual spell? Out of curiosity, what exactly do you expect was done? Some large ritual with exotic ingredients?

The only requirement pointed out was the blood of Odin (Which in itself was just a safety lock) and we know it had to be extremely simple as it was cast by young Thor. Something that won't be accomplished in battle.

Although my mind is wide open to be changed as soon as someone can prove how easy it would be to do mid battle.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't see him above any Concept.
It still doesn't mater, cause the MoD was a physical being.
So, you can't physically burn time (Eternity) or empty space (Infinity)
unless they take physical forms. (M-body)
Eternity, Love, Hate, Ego all disagree with you.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Zopzop's nonsense aside, how is this supposed to counter Thor using the Celestial killing enchantment?

Young Thor already knows the enchantment and used it. Odin found the use of the enchantment dangerous because an item of that power can have disastrous consequences, hence the current arc with the Apocalypse twins.

There's no logical reason to stop Odin, and especially Thor from using this enchantment to run a train on the Celestials now that the war with them is over with.
Then explain why Odin didn't use it to fight the Fourth Host? Oh wait, you already did in the second para with this:
" Odin found the use of the enchantment dangerous because an item of that power can have disastrous consequences, hence the current arc with the Apocalypse twins. "

RKT is supposed to be every bit as wise as Odin, if not more so. Ad 2 and 2 and you get four.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yeah, there's no way that Thor can tank attacks from Celestials as Rune King Thor. It's not as if classic Thor got back up from Celestial attacks.

Or in the case, of Mad Celestials, the Fantastic Four.

Yup, no chance at all of him mounting an offense either. After all, Rune King Thor is no Human Torch (With a Cosmic Rod).
Good thing he isn't Adult Franklin or 4-planet-amped Galactus either. Both of whom were either flash-ko'd or outright KO'd once the MCs got serious about hurting their opponents.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Versus threads still have characters operating in character unless otherwise specified.

And in character, the likes of Odin and RKT don't just summon extremely haxxed weapons to fight beings outside their weight class (barring the Destroyer Armor).

And yes, normal Thor has the feats to suggest him enduring a barrage of Celestial fire. And yes, the Rogue Celestials didn't manage to destroy the F4. Not disputing that.

My main argument is against RKT summoning or even using the axe to begin with. Just because a novice and irresponsible Thor does something, doesn't mean Odin or RKT would follow suit.
The Mad Celestials intention was never to destroy the F4. It was only to kill the Reed Richards of that universe(before destroying the rest of the universe as well) upto that point. The innumerable times when they ask characters standing in their way to simply move aside instead of disintegrating them or teleporting them away is proof of that ala Doom and Sue.

Also, lawl at using Thor withstanding the Fourth host's barrage of attacks for RKT. Unless you think that regular Thor has higher durability than Odin, that's not applicable here. Especially since the Mad Celestials demonstrated the ability to rock beings like Galactus and Adult Franklin with their blasts, nearly killed that Starbrand-Reed with a stray blast, and were implied to have destroyed entire universes during their hunt for the remaining Reeds of the Council.

The blasts the MC used against F4 was very far from they full power.

They fighted against Franklin Richards, who had power in a universal scale even in kid version (he created a universe). The MC overpowered a universal reality warper with power.

Unless you guys believe adult franklin and the thing are close in durability...

Originally posted by Epicurus
The Mad Celestials intention was never to destroy the F4. It was only to kill the Reed Richards of that universe(before destroying the rest of the universe as well) upto that point. The innumerable times when they ask characters standing in their way to simply move aside instead of disintegrating them or teleporting them away is proof of that ala Doom and Sue.

Also, lawl at using Thor withstanding the Fourth host's barrage of attacks for RKT. Unless you think that regular Thor has higher durability than Odin, that's not applicable here. Especially since the Mad Celestials demonstrated the ability to rock beings like Galactus and Adult Franklin with their blasts, nearly killed that Starbrand-Reed with a stray blast, and were implied to have destroyed entire universes during their hunt for the remaining Reeds of the Council.

?

I'm not even arguing for RKT here. I was just acknowledging that yes, regular Thor does have the feat of showing him enduring the Celestials' attacks as zop pointed out. Doesn't mean RKT beats them. I certainly don't think he stands a chance here outside of somehow getting prep time to obtain the axe or performing said enchantment on another weapon.

And even then, that's sketchy considering it would be out of character, imo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
?

I'm not even arguing for RKT here. I was just acknowledging that yes, regular Thor does have the feat of showing him enduring the Celestials' attacks as zop pointed out. Doesn't mean RKT beats them.
They're not really applicable here though. It's one of those extreme outliers, like Superman continually benchpressing Earth's weight for 5 days straight without any exposure to sunlight and without any rest between; good stuff to put up in Respect threads and to argue which herald has the best outliers, but outside of that, not much use in a forum fight.

Originally posted by Epicurus
They're not really applicable here though. It's one of those extreme outliers, like Superman continually benchpressing Earth's weight for 5 days straight without any exposure to sunlight and without any rest between; good stuff to put up in Respect threads and to argue which herald has the best outliers, but outside of that, not much use in a forum fight.

Also true. It happened and it's canon, but it's not something I would bring up in the first place outside of trying to get into a pissing contest or a feat war.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Then explain why Odin didn't use it to fight the Fourth Host? Oh wait, you already did in the second para with this:
" Odin found the use of the enchantment dangerous because an item of that power can have disastrous consequences, hence the current arc with the Apocalypse twins. "

RKT is supposed to be every bit as wise as Odin, if not more so. Ad 2 and 2 and you get four.
Good thing he isn't Adult Franklin or 4-planet-amped Galactus either. Both of whom were either flash-ko'd or outright KO'd once the MCs got serious about hurting their opponents.


Apparently you have the inability to read entire posts. Don't worry, I'm sure it's an affliction that can be cured with perseverance and hard work. Odin's hesitance over using the enchantment does NOT apply in this thread. These are rogue mad Celestials from an alternate Universe that cannot be reasoned with and he has no peace treaty with.

That's excellent logic. Seeing as how Young Thor easily cast the enchantment, it makes sense that Rune King Thor can effortlessly cast it, therefore owning the Celestials like Quan in a staring contest. Add two plus two, and you get four.

Scans of the Mad Celestials holding back? How many mental blocks did they drop when they got angry? But on a more serious note, they were merged when they did that, no?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Apparently you have the inability to read entire posts. Don't worry, I'm sure it's an affliction that can be cured with perseverance and hard work. Odin's hesitance over using the enchantment do NOT apply in this thread. These are rogue mad Celestials from an alternate Universe that cannot be reasoned with and he has no peace treaty with.

That's excellent logic. Seeing as how Young Thor easily cast the enchantment, it makes sense that Rune King Thor can effortlessly cast it, therefore owning the Celestials like Quan in a staring contest. Add two plus two, and you get four.

Scans of the Mad Celestials holding back? How many mental blocks did they drop when they got angry? But on a more serious note, they were merged when they did that, no?
No, just an inability to stand people asking questions they themselves answer in the very same instance. Does it matter that they're from an alternate reality? Especially when it was recently confirmed that all Celestials across the multiverse are aspects of each other and are linked? In essence therefore, his treaty with 616-Celestials extends to these Celestials as well.

Yeah, only problem with that is Young Thor lacks the abundant wisdom of RKT, who's arguably wiser than Odin himself, who himself was wise enough to avoid using that enchantment against the Fourth Host.

Already provided the instances when they warn both Doom and Sue to get out of the way, and when the latter refuse to do so, they simply blast them out of the way. Beyond that, I'd recommend reading FF#14 and Fantastic Four#603 to clarify your doubts. When they got serious about hurting people, they were able to drop kid Franklin to the ground with a single blast, rocked both Adult Franklin and revived Galactus with single blasts, and nearly killed the 4-planet-amped Galactus in their merged state.

Originally posted by Epicurus
No, just an inability to stand people asking questions they themselves answer in the very same instance. Does it matter that they're from an alternate reality? Especially when it was recently confirmed that all Celestials across the multiverse are aspects of each other and are linked? In essence therefore, his treaty with 616-Celestials extends to these Celestials as well.

Yeah, only problem with that is Young Thor lacks the abundant wisdom of RKT, who's arguably wiser than Odin himself, who himself was wise enough to avoid using that enchantment against the Fourth Host.

Already provided the instances when they warn both Doom and Sue to get out of the way, and when the latter refuse to do so, they simply blast them out of the way. Beyond that, I'd recommend reading FF#14 and Fantastic Four#603 to clarify your doubts. When they got serious about hurting people, they were able to drop kid Franklin to the ground with a single blast, rocked both Adult Franklin and revived Galactus with single blasts, and nearly killed the 4-planet-amped Galactus in their merged state.

I pointed out why Odin was against using the enchantment. I also explained why that no longer applies. Of course it matters, I just explained WHY it matters, smh.These are rogue Celestials that he does not have a peace treaty with that are representative of their entire race. He did not want to interfere with Apocalypse because he was an emissary of the Celestial Races. Not to mention the Celestial War has come and gone so Odin has no duty to uphold their agreement or anything. Some desperate attempt at a weird extra-dimensional connection with other Celesitals does not change these facts in the slightest. These Celestials are a completely separate and alternate faction with their own agenda.

Why are you mentioning the Fourth Host? They are NOT fighting the Fourth Host here. And the war with the Celestials came and went long ago. What about these factors do you not understand?

In the same comic you're referencing, we saw them attack the Fantastic Four with no more mercy then Franklin and Galactus. If you want to argue that this is one of those rare comic inconsistencies, sure but that's a whole different animal.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I pointed out why Odin was against using the enchantment. I also explained why that no longer applies. Of course it matters, I just explained WHY it matters, smh.These are rogue Celestials that he does not have a peace treaty with that are representative of their entire race. He did not want to interfere with Apocalypse because he was an emissary of the Celestial Races. Not to mention the Celestial War has come and gone so Odin has no duty to uphold their agreement or anything. Some desperate attempt at a weird extra-dimensional connection with other Celesitals does not change these facts in the slightest. These Celestials are a completely separate and alternate faction with their own agenda.

Why are you mentioning the Fourth Host? They are NOT fighting the Fourth Host here. And the war with the Celestials came and went long ago. What about these factors do you not understand?

Scans of them holding back against Fantastic Four? If you want to argue that this is one of those rare comic inconsistencies, sure but that's a whole different animal.
Your explanation regarding them being alternates and the treaty not applying to them was rebuffed though. Do you read your own scans? In it, it is very specifically mentioned that the enchantment is a safeguard only to be used if the Celestial Executioner(aka Exitar) arrives. That's the only reason why the enchantment exists. Not because of Odin's treaty with the Celestials. It absolutely does, since their multiversality was pretty much the focal point of the entire event of Extermination.

Because Odin went to war with the Fourth Host. Because if he was that desperate to kill them and win, he would've used this hex to enchant every weapon of Asagrd and defeat their entire race handily. But he didn't. Because this is a special form of counterattack reserved for the Celestial Executioner. And because Odin not using it against one hostile group of Celestials proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that he won't use it against another hostile group of Celestials either. Same goes for RKT, who is every bit as wise as Odin, if not wiser still.

I provided you with the issue numbers. Read the comic(s) on your own. They wanted to kill Richards before carrying out their overall plan of destroying the rest of the world/universe, and prior to killing Richards, they didn't bother attempting to kill anyone else. Not even when Valeria first breached the portal to the Bridge and discovered the Council of Reeds.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Your explanation regarding them being alternates and the treaty not applying to them was rebuffed though. Do you read your own scans? In it, it is very specifically mentioned that the enchantment is a safeguard only to be used if the Celestial Executioner(aka Exitar) arrives. That's the only reason why the enchantment exists. Not because of Odin's treaty with the Celestials. It absolutely does, since their multiversality was pretty much the focal point of the entire event of Extermination.

Because Odin went to war with the Fourth Host. Because if he was that desperate to kill them and win, he would've used this hex to enchant every weapon of Asagrd and defeat their entire race handily. But he didn't. Because this is a special form of counterattack reserved for the Celestial Executioner. And because Odin not using it against one hostile group of Celestials proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that he won't use it against another hostile group of Celestials either. Same goes for RKT, who is every bit as wise as Odin, if not wiser still.

I provided you with the issue numbers. Read the comic(s) on your own. They wanted to kill Richards before carrying out their overall plan of destroying the rest of the world/universe, and prior to killing Richards, they didn't bother attempting to kill anyone else. Not even when Valeria first breached the portal to the Bridge and discovered the Council of Reeds.

This is going in circles. Agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is going in circles. Agree to disagree.
Okay. But do you honestly think that them using the Jarnbjorn hex in this thread is a viable tactic? I would have no problems with it if the OP allowed it. Heck, I'd probably give Volstagg the win against any Celestial if he were equipped with a weapon like that.

That scan has a lot of iffiness about it. It's Kang calling an enchantment "simple", not the same thing as Thor or even RKT finding it simple.

The _safeguard_ isn't the Odin's blood thing (which just seems to mean, any descendant of Odin), but the weapon itself. Thus reinforcing the idea that it can seriously harm The Celestials.

Still, all this weapon does is pierce their "armour", which really isn't saying that much.

We know they exist beyond simple physical form and that they can reconstitute on a whim, so why would this weapon hand any the fight to RKT, even if he were allowed to summon it.

Also, The Celestials, like Galactus, always vary the strength of their attacks depending upon the seriousness of the threat facing them.

Galactus never one-shot killed Hulk, Surfer or any herald, yet he one-shot wiped out 3 star systems and annihilated a Watcher as a by-product, when he got serious.

The Mad Celestials, individually were not as powerful as Galactus, but in combination they clearly surpassed a well fed Galactus.

Nobody got an answer for why Sue never thought - "OMG they killed my son! I'm going to exploit their hyperspace weakness and kill them!"?

Originally posted by janus77
That scan has a lot of iffiness about it. It's Kang calling an enchantment "simple", not the same thing as Thor or even RKT finding it simple.

The _safeguard_ isn't the Odin's blood thing (which just seems to mean, any descendant of Odin), but the weapon itself. Thus reinforcing the idea that it can seriously harm The Celestials.

Still, all this weapon does is pierce their "armour", which really isn't saying that much.

Uriel killed the Arishem-lookalike Celestial Gardener with that axe.

Originally posted by janus77
Nobody got an answer for why Sue never thought - "OMG they killed my son! I'm going to exploit their hyperspace weakness and kill them!"?
Because it wouldn't have made a difference.Plus, they never killed her son.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Uriel killed the Arishem-lookalike Celestial Gardener with that axe.
Ah, I was commenting on the exposition in the scan previously posted up.


I think this is all part of Pak's fiendish plan to get all you Hulk haters on board.

He left so that tHickman and Co could finish the job of ruining the Marvel cosmos that he started, whilst he kept DC's flying gimmick from doing anything fancy or interesting.

Then, Waid builds up this time punching force that Hulk has, first using a piece of chromal metal, but then through sheer force.

Finally Pak returns, Hulk gets pissed off at the very idea of Odin being able to threaten a cosmic and so Pak has Hulk throw the retcon punch. And all of KMC's 4-5 non-Thorbags, leap in joy and cheer and laugh through tear streaming eyes.

It's happening in '14. The Hulk Marvel Retcon Punch. Turning Marvel Now! into Marvel Wow!

Originally posted by janus77
Ah, I was commenting on the exposition in the scan previously posted up.
I know about that, which is why I made a note of this myself here:
Originally posted by Epicurus
It's probably attributable to Remender's wiki/handbook-level knowledge of the characters he writes about. He clearly never read Thor#300 or any of the preceding issues(like Tom Brevoort), because the time period when we see the axe getting enchanted, is roughly around the time after Odin made his initial pact with the Celestials and before the Destroyer/Uni-Mind battle, but Thor is still unworthy of Mjolnir which is inconsistent with his depiction back in the day. Plus, I saw a couple people on cbr who were noting how the enchantment's purpose was to only "pierce" Celestial armor, but somehow it got upscaled from that to being able to outright kill Celestials. They also made a note of Remender ignoring the self-repair abilities of Celetial armor in general, along with how it failed to kill Celestial-powered Apocalypse; which led them to state that he should improve the way he describes particular scenes and plot elements in a comic. Back then, I agreed with their assessment.

I am guessing that Remender won't be bringing another Celestial directly on-panel as he did in Uncanny#7. Probably due to the fan-criticism of the way he wrote that particular scene.

Another inconsistency to highlight: Sentry is able to disorient Thor by flying him at ftl speeds, even though in the Gorr arc which was running concurrently at that time, Thor was able to easily cross lightyears within moments without any discomfort at all.

Apart from these minor detail-based inconsistencies, his work on Uncanny has been quite an enjoyable read so far.

Ah, well ... Did Apocalypse twins do any mojo on the axe, was there anything to the scene other than just the axing?

I don't read Thor, but will have to look up the scans of this.

@Rage: Just noticed this edit:
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In the same comic you're referencing, we saw them attack the Fantastic Four with no more mercy then Franklin and Galactus.
They explicitly noted both Franklin and Galactus to be cosmic-level threats to themselves. They freaked out the moment they realized Galactus was aware of their plan, which caused them to go into killmode against him, shouting "Obliterate!Obliterate!" like a bunch of crazed maniacs. Similar to Franklin, they noted him to be some sort of harbinger who would bring Doom to them. Heck, in their very first encounter with the kid version, they immediately attempted to kill him upon realizing the threat he posed to them. Completely different from the Doom/Johnny/Sue/Thing instances.

Originally posted by janus77
Ah, well ... Did Apocalypse twins do any mojo on the axe, was there anything to the scene other than just the axing?

I don't read Thor, but will have to look up the scans of this.
They just stole it from Kang. That's all.

Originally posted by janus77
That scan has a lot of iffiness about it. It's Kang calling an enchantment "simple", not the same thing as Thor or even RKT finding it simple.

Lol.

Fyi, Young Thor went on to cast that enchantment.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol.

Fyi, Young Thor went on to cast that enchantment.
Yes, wasn't arguing that. Just pointing out that Kang was calling it simple, that he was giving his condescending opinion on the matter, not stating it as objective fact.

Thor might have had to ponder, to seek further aid and explanation, for all that scan suggests on the matter.

Originally posted by Epicurus
They just stole it from Kang. That's all.
horrible.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Okay. But do you honestly think that them using the Jarnbjorn hex in this thread is a viable tactic? I would have no problems with it if the OP allowed it. Heck, I'd probably give Volstagg the win against any Celestial if he were equipped with a weapon like that.

I think it's a safe assumption that the spell is not complicated and is some phrase in conjunction with blood. It's probably something like this but instead of a cup, on whatever item you want to enchant:
http://s28.postimg.org/diqnhhv15/Thor_10_Zone_Megan_pg07.jpghttp://s28.postimg.org/n4k7xsm6x/Thor_10_Zone_Megan_pg08.jpg

With that assumption, I don't understand why it isn't a possibility. Especially since we're dealing with beings who can do pretty much whatever they want and don't even have to physically cut their skin to draw blood.

Originally posted by janus77
Yes, wasn't arguing that. Just pointing out that Kang was calling it simple, that he was giving his condescending opinion on the matter, not stating it as objective fact.

Thor might have had to ponder, to seek further aid and explanation, for all that scan suggests on the matter.



Kang was clearly calling it a simple spell:
http://postimg.org/image/osxy42t39/

Help? Thor was in a rush and Odin forbade using the spell. I wish Remender had shown the actual casting. It gives us all the information needed to guess what happened but comic book boards by their nature are so anal about such details.

Is the axed Celestials stuff canon to 616?
It's dealing with a "young Thor" after all.

Originally posted by janus77
Is the axed Celestials stuff canon to 616?
It's dealing with a "young Thor" after all.

Why would it be anything else other then canon?

The amount of gymnastics attempted to invalidate such a simple scene is mind boggling.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would it be anything else other then canon?

The amount of gymnastics attempted to invalidate such a simple scene is mind boggling.
Well, simply because it's talking about things that have not existed in the timeline we've seen to date, nor had any impact on the current timeline.

Originally posted by janus77
Well, simply because it's talking about things that have not existed in the timeline we've seen to date, nor had any impact on the current timeline.
***cough***Sh|tty Marvel writers***cough***

Originally posted by janus77
Well, simply because it's talking about things that have not existed in the timeline we've seen to date, nor had any impact on the current timeline.

What? The current Uncanny Avengers arc revolves around Thor's Celestial killing axe.

Revealing stuff that we did not know before happens literally all the time in comics.

I predict the Celestials will shove that axe up somebody's arse before the arc is over.

Originally posted by janus77
Is the axed Celestials stuff canon to 616?
It's dealing with a "young Thor" after all.
The story is taking place in the current 616-timeline. The young Thor stuff was more or less a flashback to his first encounter with Apocalypse millennia ago and how Jarnbjorn was forged as a result.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think it's a safe assumption that the spell is not complicated and is some phrase in conjunction with blood. It's probably something like this but instead of a cup, on whatever item you want to enchant:
http://s28.postimg.org/diqnhhv15/Thor_10_Zone_Megan_pg07.jpghttp://s28.postimg.org/n4k7xsm6x/Thor_10_Zone_Megan_pg08.jpg

With that assumption, I don't understand why it isn't a possibility. Especially since we're dealing with beings who can do pretty much whatever they want and don't even have to physically cut their skin to draw blood.
I am not talking about the efficacy of the spell(which we don't know anything about yet), I am talking about it being a viable tactic in this thread, seeing how haxed and plot devicey the spell and the axe are to begin with. Because by that logic we can go about claiming that the MCs simply teleport other Celestials into the battlefield, the most obvious and notable example being Scathan.

wait, wait, i got this. king thor has at least one superspeed combat feat. odin has galaxy busting power. celestials have NO speed feats whatever. they'd be statues to rkt who is above both odin and king thor. so obviously it follows that: (a) rkt casts his spell at superspeed and kills them via PIS power, or (b) flat out blitzes them before they can react with galaxy+ level attacks which kills them because they have been shown to be affected by much less than that.

either way, the celestials are well and truly f'd in this thread.

Originally posted by leonidas
wait, wait, i got this. king thor has at least one superspeed combat feat. odin has galaxy busting power. celestials have NO speed feats whatever. they'd be statues to rkt who is above both odin and king thor. so obviously it follows that: (a) rkt casts his spell at superspeed and kills them via PIS power, or (b) flat out blitzes them before they can react with galaxy+ level attacks which kills them because they have been shown to be affected by much less than that.

either way, the celestials are well and truly f'd in this thread.
Somebody check if Leo is alright or something.


fear

I was going to say Celestials but Leo convinced me RKT takes this. Superspeed and a million baztillions galaxybusting attacks in a picosecond FTW!

Originally posted by leonidas
wait, wait, i got this. king thor has at least one superspeed combat feat. odin has galaxy busting power. celestials have NO speed feats whatever. they'd be statues to rkt who is above both odin and king thor. so obviously it follows that: (a) rkt casts his spell at superspeed and kills them via PIS power, or (b) flat out blitzes them before they can react with galaxy+ level attacks which kills them because they have been shown to be affected by much less than that.

either way, the celestials are well and truly f'd in this thread.
This is, without a shadow of a doubt, the most logical post made so far in this thread.

Originally posted by leonidas
wait, wait, i got this. king thor has at least one superspeed combat feat. odin has galaxy busting power. celestials have NO speed feats whatever. they'd be statues to rkt who is above both odin and king thor. so obviously it follows that: (a) rkt casts his spell at superspeed and kills them via PIS power, or (b) flat out blitzes them before they can react with galaxy+ level attacks which kills them because they have been shown to be affected by much less than that.

either way, the celestials are well and truly f'd in this thread.