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It's widely believed that during, or after the events of ROTS, Obi-Wan was on par with Count Dooku, do you think that is the case, or is Obi-Wan still below him by that point?

Who the hell says this? They clearly need to stop smoking crack.

Yeah, who the hell says this? He got his handed to him by Dooku.

You guys are buffoons. Its so obvious:

Anakin beat Dooku

Obi-Wan beat Anakin

So obviously Kenobi is on par with the count, if not his obvious superior.

http://img.pandawhale.com/45822-Keanu-Bill-and-Ted-whoa-gif-Yr7D.gif

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Who the hell says this? They clearly need to stop smoking crack. People who only saw the movie's and wouldn't be able to hold their own in any star wars argument. Basically normal people if you can understand what I mean by that.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
People who only saw the movie's and wouldn't be able to hold their own in any star wars argument. Basically normal people if you can understand what I mean by that.

But in the movies Dooku stomps Obi-Wan so hard it's ridiculous. No one should come to this conclusion, since the overwhelming majority of evidence to support Dooku > Obi-Wan is in the films.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But in the movies Dooku stomps Obi-Wan so hard it's ridiculous. No one should come to this conclusion, since the overwhelming majority of evidence to support Dooku > Obi-Wan is in the films. They come to that conclusion due to Obi-Wan defeating Anakin at the end of the movie. Then every incompetent ******* is like "obiwan iz better thn dooku now cuz he bet anakin and almost killed him so dooku sux compared to obiwan now"

K, so Obi-Wan goes up against Dooku. Dooku blocks everything he has, and takes him out in record time.

Anakin goes up against Dooku mad. Wins in record time.

Anakin goes up against Obi-Wan. They fight forever. Obi-Wan barely wins.

OBIWAN IS SUPERIOR.

THIS NO MAKE SENSE.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
K, so Obi-Wan goes up against Dooku. Dooku blocks everything he has, and takes him out in record time.

Anakin goes up against Dooku mad. Wins in record time.

Anakin goes up against Obi-Wan. They fight forever. Obi-Wan barely wins.

OBIWAN IS SUPERIOR.

THIS NO MAKE SENSE.

But you do have to admit that BEN Kenobi most likely surpassed him.

Rock-paper-scissors effect. Dooku's style is particularly good against Kenobi, and Kenobi is particularly good against Anakin.

I'd say Dooku's a bit better than Kenobi, but not as much as their performance against each other would indicate.

Dooku is in another dimension when it comes to the Force.

In a strict duel though, Dooku would not stomp Kenobi, and would probably win about 7-8/10.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
But you do have to admit that BEN Kenobi most likely surpassed him.


Why would he admit that? Because of the Ben vs Vader fight? Dooku's probably superior to both of them in pure Sabers.


Originally posted by Intrepid37


In a strict duel though, Dooku would not stomp Kenobi, and would probably win about 7-8/10.

I can imagine Kenobi stalemating him in pure Sabers, but think he would find an actual win very difficult.

I am confident he could. With Force powers involved, it would be harder.

By Episode IV his Soresu skill must have been far above his skill in Episode 3, and his force abilities have significantly improved since then as well, this man is no longer Obi-Wan Kenobi. No, he is on a whole new level, a level that is at least equal to, or above Dooku Level.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
By Episode IV his Soresu skill must have been far above his skill in Episode 3, and his force abilities have significantly improved since then as well, this man is no longer Obi-Wan Kenobi. No, he is on a whole new level, a level that is at least equal to, or above Dooku Level. The proof behind this is beautiful.

Originally posted by NTJack0
The proof behind this is beautiful.
May sound stupid, but I really can't tell if you are being sarcastic or serious.

Originally posted by NTJack0
The proof behind this is beautiful. If sarcastic. How does he stay the same for all those years despite the constant training he received from a deceased Qui-Gon and Yoda?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
If sarcastic. How does he stay the same for all those years despite the constant training he received from a deceased Qui-Gon and Yoda?


That wasn't combat training, and we have no idea how long that training lasted. Could have been a few months, weeks, days, hours. Who knows?


There's no reason at all to assume he was a match for Count Dooku by ANH. Well not yet anyway. We'll see if the new show Rebels gives us any more clues as to his prowess at that time period.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That wasn't combat training, and we have no idea how long that training lasted. Could have been a few months, weeks, days, hours. Who knows?


There's no reason at all to assume he was a match for Count Dooku by ANH. Well not yet anyway. We'll see if the new show Rebels gives us any more clues as to his prowess at that time period. Rebels??? New show??? I NEEDS DETAILS!

I'm not sure why we would conclude Ben Kenobi's Saber mastery increased when he had no one to spar with for almost 20+ years. I imagine his understanding of the Force increased marginally, but he has zero showings to support being at or above Dooku's level. From a purely technical standpoint, Dooku is the best pure duelist in the PT, and often loses only to true Force titans. Obi isn't one of them.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Rebels??? New show??? I NEEDS DETAILS!

Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Rebels

Dooku is better duelist then Kenobi. His Makashi is a perfect counter against Kenobi's soresu. Unlike Maul or Anakin, Dooku isn't an idiot. He's an arrogant but it doesn't blind him.
That's enough for me, to think that Dooku takes sabers 9 or 10/10.

As force user, Dooku is about 2 tiers (or more) above Kenobi. It's a stomp.

Dooku is a better duelist but not by that much at least. Obi-Wan has defended well against Maul and sparred evenly with Anakin.

Yeah, that's true. I'm not consider Dooku as much better - he's jus better. He's also more experienced. And his Makashi is the best weapon against Kenobi's Soresu. Dooku dueled him at least four times. Once with Mace's aid, and three times with Anakin's. Kenobi never was able to take advantage over Count.

There are few versions of this final fight with Dooku. Cannonicaly, Dooku best Kenobi by the force in tht fight. But comic and Stover's novel suggest, that he was able to defeat Kenobi physically (by kick).
In "Rise and Fall of Darth Vader" (which is consistent with ROTS movie) is stated, that Dooku defended himself effortlessly against Anakin's and Obi-Wan's attacks.

This 10/10 suggest stomp, but it's far from stomp. But I don't see chances for Kenobi to win against Count.

10/10 doesn't have to mean stomp. It could be that some fights he wins with moderate difficulty and some of them with great difficulty, and 1 or 2 he wins just barely.

But what it means is that Kenobi will never win or even stalemate. Which I personally don't see, as he should be able to stalemate Dooku a few times at least (in pure fencing) Imho.

Last I looked Anakin and Obi Wan dueling...equally?
I don't think so...There was no equal when Kenobi went for the High ground...
There was no equal when he cut off A'Sharad Hett's arm and bested him in Saber combat...

Dooku bested him I admit that...but Kenobi's advanced knowledge on light saber combat is
what bested Anakin... That was not all Soresu... that was Sokan/Ataru...and his willingness to
stay true to the Jedi way...passive...switching from Soresu.. to...Ataru ...then back...to Soresu.. then finally...Sokan....imo Kenobi was always better at strategy than Anakin...

And Anakin better at being direct... straight to the point....improvising(sometimes ).