Power Cosmic vs. Odin Force

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Supra
Yeilded By the Following who can control these better in a fight

Odin vs Galactus pure Energy based attacks

Thor vs SS Pure Energy Based Attacks...

CortSether
Power Cosmic in both.

Warlord
Galactus
Thor if we include the godblast

Supra
Odin Force

Assisted Thor in denting Captain America's virtually indestructible shield.
Odin, wielding it, created a galaxy and then destroyed it.
With The Odin Force, Thor takes two nuclear warheads out of his chest without injury.
Killed Captain America whilst destroying his shield.
Kills Wolverine while destroying him and his Adamantium bones.
Thor has used the Odin Force to cure a man of his terminal cancer.
Thor has used the Odin Force to stop time itself.
Odin used it to cut out the heart of a star, with which it was used to forge and empower the legendary hammer Mjolnir.
Odin used it to bring back to life both Thor and Brunnhilde.(Valkyrie)
By channeling the Odin Force into his sacred hammer Mjolnir, Thor decapitated the nigh-invincible Destroyer Armor with one strike.
Thor used the Odin Force to not only become the supreme ruler of Earth itself, but also eliminate all of its hero's and villains that opposed him.
Odin used it to transform the cursed Nibelling rings into the gigantic Oversword of Asgard.(now known as the Odinsword)
Thor used it to destroy the Blood Axe of Skurge the Executioner, stating that only the Odin Force was capable of doing so.
Thor used the Odin Force to restore not only the floating city of Asgard on Earth, but also restored the lives of all the Asgardians who were lost after Ragnarok.
Odin used it to create and empower Stormbreaker, the hammer of Beta Ray Bill.
Odin used it to create and empower the Uru mace Thunderstrike, as a gift to Eric Masterson for all his heroic efforts in Asgard's name.
Odin used it to trap Surtur within his own body, becoming a living prison for the fire Elemental.
Odin used it to save the life of Eric Masterson by merging his life force with that of Thor's.

One-Punch
Power Cosmic.

Used to by Galactus to fight Scrier and the Other, and nearly collapsed reality into Oblivion.

Used to by Galactus to hold his own against the Galactus Engine singlehandedly for some time, while the other cosmic entities fled or died.

Used by Galactus to take on four mad Celestials at once, killed one of them, and helped adult Franklin kill the rest.

jaxthejester
Galactus at full power takes Odin at full power. Marvel's top Massive Cosmic Entities outweigh Marvel's top Skyfathers.
Galactus trumps Odin on the power charts.

Thor at full power trumps Surfer at full power. The lines blur at Thor and Surfer's level.
The Godblast hits harder than Surfer's most desperate Cosmic Blast.

So...

Cosmic wins at Galactus level.

Odin Force wins at Thor level.

cool

zopzop
Originally posted by CortSether
Power Cosmic in both.

janus77
Power Cosmic wins in both.

eaebiakuya
Originally posted by jaxthejester
Galactus at full power takes Odin at full power. Marvel's top Massive Cosmic Entities outweigh Marvel's top Skyfathers.
Galactus trumps Odin on the power charts.

Thor at full power trumps Surfer at full power. The lines blur at Thor and Surfer's level.
The Godblast hits harder than Surfer's most desperate Cosmic Blast.

So...

Cosmic wins at Galactus level.

Odin Force wins at Thor level.

cool

Agree.

Galactus

Thor.

Uriel005
Originally posted by jaxthejester
Galactus at full power takes Odin at full power. Marvel's top Massive Cosmic Entities outweigh Marvel's top Skyfathers.
Galactus trumps Odin on the power charts.

Thor at full power trumps Surfer at full power. The lines blur at Thor and Surfer's level.
The Godblast hits harder than Surfer's most desperate Cosmic Blast.

So...

Cosmic wins at Galactus level.

Odin Force wins at Thor level.

cool difference between thor and Surfer potential power. Thor is inherently elder god/god something that he clearly grows into in power. Surfer was granted his power. I'm not sure how much room for growth was in there because there are times when he's an epic boss of bosses and other times when we just see him crash and burn.

Supra
Originally posted by Warlord
Galactus
Thor if we include the godblast

Yes Odin Force /Godblase included..

Supra
How much can surfer extend or go beyond his gifted powers or is he always limited unless galactus gives/increases his cosmic power?

Being Galactus and him creating heralds...seems he would not be willing to make the chance of his herald over powering him..

janus77
But Surfer is also able to amp and absorb energies - all manner of cosmic energies - to unknown levels.

His powerset seems to be completely open, in that if he wanted to he could "evolve himself" to operate at any level of power he wants. Like he did when he absorbed the souls from UniLord.

What level of power must you have to be able to evolve a whole planet billions of years, without even tapping out?


Seems to me, Surfer is self-limiting. In principle he has an open powerset with a default "volume level", that he can change if he roots around in his settings.

The Power Cosmic is omniversal, iirc, it's everywhere and is used by other cosmic abstracts besides Galactus, so the scope for growth is ... Literally omniversal.

Supra
Originally posted by janus77
But Surfer is also able to amp and absorb energies - all manner of cosmic energies - to unknown levels.

His powerset seems to be completely open, in that if he wanted to he could "evolve himself" to operate at any level of power he wants. Like he did when he absorbed the souls from UniLord.

What level of power must you have to be able to evolve a whole planet billions of years, without even tapping out?


Seems to me, Surfer is self-limiting. In principle he has an open powerset with a default "volume level", that he can change if he roots around in his settings.

The Power Cosmic is omniversal, iirc, it's everywhere and is used by other cosmic abstracts besides Galactus, so the scope for growth is ... Literally omniversal.

So by giving SS his power SS can overpower Galactus if he wanted too by not having to require planets to feed on, how powerful could he become?

janus77
Originally posted by Supra
How much can surfer extend or go beyond his gifted powers or is he always limited unless galactus gives/increases his cosmic power?

Being Galactus and him creating heralds...seems he would not be willing to make the chance of his herald over powering him..
Nope, actually quite a few of his heralds have amped themselves, one way or another, beyond the level he gave them.

The most obvious example being Tyrant.


Galactus doesn't seem to impose limits, I guess he just doesn't worry as he too can grow as powerful as necessary.

Supra
Originally posted by janus77
Nope, actually quite a few of his heralds have amped themselves, one way or another, beyond the level he gave them.

The most obvious example being Tyrant.


Galactus doesn't seem to impose limits, I guess he just doesn't worry as he too can grow as powerful as necessary.

So if SS Amped his power to Galactus level..would he require planets to comsume to sustain him?

eaebiakuya
Surfer can surpass the power of the Godblast, if he get a external force of energy, like he did against Aegis and Tenebrous.

But this thread is about their pure energy attacks. Absorving energy means that is not pure energy. It is his energy + energy from another source.

janus77
Originally posted by Supra
So by giving SS his power SS can overpower Galactus if he wanted too by not having to require planets to feed on, how powerful could he become?
I don't think he could overpower Galactus, directly. Definitely though, he could challenge Galactus via self-evolution and creation of forms for absorbing ever vaster amounts of PC.

It's happened to Galactus before with Tyrant. And even Morg, with WoL was amped far beyond the herald Galactus made him.


I suspect Galactus has a superior connection to the Power Cosmic and has absolute command over it with respect to stripping his heralds of it, but they are free to absorb as much of it as they can handle (which isn't clearly set).

Supra
Ok so if SS Amped to say "Close to Galactus Cosmic Awarness" how long could he sustain it?

janus77
Originally posted by Supra
So if SS Amped his power to Galactus level..would he require planets to comsume to sustain him?
The planets thing is specific to Galactus. It's his function, the hunger is merely a mechanism for it.

None of his heralds require that sort of thing, though I think they could all use it, if they wanted to - Surfer eating souls for example.

Supra
Originally posted by janus77
The planets thing is specific to Galactus. It's his function, the hunger is merely a mechanism for it.

None of his heralds require that sort of thing, though I think they could all use it, if they wanted to - Surfer eating souls for example.

Does there power flow from his, like are they connected through the power cosmic or if he dies so does there power?

janus77
Originally posted by Supra
Ok so if SS Amped to say "Close to Galactus Cosmic Awarness" how long could he sustain it?
Never seen him do anything like that. It's not in Surfer's character to go chasing after power (in fact, one of the reasons he has so many crappy showings is that he wants to be rid of his powers).

The closest he's come to that kind of power is when he got the Quantum Bands and called himself The Keeper. Though when Galactus got tired of him, he slapped him down quite embarrassingly easily.


I don't think Surfer would have a problem retaining the powers, if he got them. It'd be like High Evolutionary, he evolves his physiology to be able to absorb more power. It just sticks.

Supra
Ok so theoretically if he wanted to or any of the heralds wanted too..They too could be the most powerful being in the universe?

janus77
Originally posted by Supra
Does there power flow from his, like are they connected through the power cosmic or if he dies so does there power?
Well, if Marvel continuity hasn't changed again this week (has Hickman written anything this week?), I imagine everybody's dead if 616 Galactus dies. Abraxas would come along - end of everything.

The Power Cosmic is just the basic foundational energies of the omniverse. It flows through Galactus and his heralds, he is not the source of it.

Not sure if their access to the PC would be affected by his death, don't think so.

janus77
Originally posted by Supra
Ok so theoretically if he wanted to or any of the heralds wanted too..They too could be the most powerful being in the universe?
I think they could be a threat like Insane Genis - who basically had an overdose of Cosmic Awareness (something that comes with The Power Cosmic).

As long as Galactus and the other cosmics are around, I don't think any herald is truly going to be competing for "the most powerful being in the universe".

They'd definitely be way more powerful than cheap pantheon gods and such though.

Supra
So a herald at that lvl could wreck Odin?

janus77
Originally posted by Supra
So a herald at that lvl could wreck Odin?
Well, technically he'd no longer be a level with that much power flowing through him.

Herald is more of an overall power-level bracket. Which is why you have high heralds that can breakout of that bracket into the next one (or further up).

Hulk, Surfer, Thor, Sentry and maybe one or two others, can transcend the herald level at times.

Thor basically does so whenever Odin's dead.
Surfer, whenever the writer allows it.
Hulk ... whenever he really wants to.

abhilegend
Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Surfer can surpass the power of the Godblast, if he get a external force of energy, like he did against Aegis and Tenebrous.

But this thread is about their pure energy attacks. Absorving energy means that is not pure energy. It is his energy + energy from another source.
Wat?

janus77
IMO GodBlast pales in comparison to the energy used to evolve a planet billions of years.

Supra
Originally posted by janus77

Hulk ... whenever he really wants to.

Epic!! Welcome to my friends listsmile

janus77
Beats getting put on people's ignore lists for it smile.

Supra
Full Blast Cosmic Power from G at Hulk...does he die?

janus77
From Galactus? Yep. Instant-death, imo.

Though he'd return, by absorbing ambient gamma - like Maestro - as he has a consciousness that extends beyond his physical form.

If Galactus wanted to perma-kill Hulk, I think he could do so easily too.

Different weight class.


Give it time though, with the recent statement of Master Order that it took the majority of his energies to restrain (a fairly calm) Hulk, I think that's a hint at a huge amp in Hulk's "base level".

Supra
Originally posted by janus77
From Galactus? Yep. Instant-death, imo.

Though he'd return, by absorbing ambient gamma - like Maestro - as he has a consciousness that extends beyond his physical form.

If Galactus wanted to perma-kill Hulk, I think he could do so easily too.

Different weight class.


Give it time though, with the recent statement of Master Order that it took the majority of his energies to restrain (a fairly calm) Hulk, I think that's a hint at a huge amp in Hulk's "base level".

Man thats sick..So the only one that can really challenge G is Abraxas?

Uriel005

janus77
Originally posted by Supra
Man thats sick..So the only one that can really challenge G is Abraxas?
Not the only one, there are other forces in each Universe. Just that Abraxas is supposed to be released, should Galactus die.

Marvel cosmology is ... "constantly evolving" according to writer whim, amnesia, oversight and or "shits 'n giggles".

janus77

Supra
So Power Cosmic is the singular most powerful energy source in the universe creating and sustaining all life? Basically thats what the gods use to create ad destroy?

Uriel005
Originally posted by Supra
So Power Cosmic is the singular most powerful energy source in the universe creating and sustaining all life? Basically thats what the gods use to create ad destroy? kinda in marvel the quasi-pseudo science power cosmic is the supreme driving force with cosmic beings at the top of the hierarchy. In DC Magic is the supreme force based on interpretation that a judeo-christian monotheistic deity is the generally accepted figurehead at the top of the hierarchy in DC given how demons and angels often interact as a magic based power. That said Magic in both Marvel and DC shouldn't really be called magic because things defined as magical or mystical are by inherent virtue something that shouldn't be explained by science but the very nature of the practice of magic in both universes tend to have very structured and ordered results with very little in the way of turning your mega-doomsday spell into a ball of randomness shooting rainbows and ponies everywhere unless the caster does something/someone interferes in the magic.

Supra
Lol, you lost me after the "mega-doosday" part but I get what you are saying..

So power cosmic is in everything basically that is how SS can manipulate matter and energy around him and bend it to his will.

abhilegend
Originally posted by janus77
IMO GodBlast pales in comparison to the energy used to evolve a planet billions of years.
It isn't.

Rage.Of.Olympus
1) Galactus.
2) Thor.

Supra
Originally posted by janus77
Not the only one, there are other forces in each Universe. Just that Abraxas is supposed to be released, should Galactus die.

Marvel cosmology is ... "constantly evolving" according to writer whim, amnesia, oversight and or "shits 'n giggles".

He loves toying with Galactus though, like big time..

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1) Galactus.
2) Thor.

Tar-Antado
Power Cosmic in both.

Warlord
what's surfer's best blasting feat that can be compared to a godblast???

Insane Titan
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1) Galactus.
2) Thor. This.

There isn't really a argument for any other choice

Rao Kal El
Galactus
Thor

Ambient
Originally posted by Warlord
what's surfer's best blasting feat that can be compared to a godblast??? http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6140/xsu0.jpg

this

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5960/annihilationsilversurfekp8.jpg

And this

janus77
****ing awesome.


Surfer makes Cosmics worthwhile.

abhilegend
Unilord saga is a what if situation and is totally non canon. And destroying planets is cool and all that but its really pointless to compare power between different characters.

Ambient
Says you?

The way u presented your argument in that regard is like me saying Superman got manhandled by Batman with a punch in here.

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/291/tv9s.jpg

Or that Superman can't survive in space without oxygen aids in here.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7909/enpx.jpg

It's Lol's worthy Abby!

abhilegend
Originally posted by Ambient
Says you?

The way u presented your argument in that regard is like me saying Superman got manhandled by Batman with a punch in here.

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/291/tv9s.jpg

Or that Superman can't survive in space without oxygen aids in here.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7909/enpx.jpg

It's Lol's worthy Abby!
Really? You're posting scans of a superpowered batman punching superman and a young superman needing oxygen as this?

Originally posted by abhilegend


First the evidence that the unilord saga is a What If story, here is the scene where surfer attempted to enter the unilord universe in SS v3 112

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3112p02.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3112p03.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3112p04.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3112p05.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3112p06.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3112p07.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3112p08.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3112p09.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3112p10.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3112p11.jpg

Now what is revealed later in SS v3 114 is that surfer failed to enter the unilord universe and its all a What If scenario

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3114p02.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3114p03.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3114p04.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3114p05.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3114p06.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3114p07.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3114p08.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3114p09.jpg




laughing out loud

Ambient
Exactly what I'm implying without taking account the whole story, an opinion base on an incomplete foretelling of the whole event/ story. In the case of the Unilord Saga, why not show/ post how it ended in Silver Surfer 118/119 when Surfer came out of the rift and reconnected to 616.

We've been here before Abby! It goes round and round and and and it does not go well for you. smile

abhilegend
Originally posted by Ambient
Exactly what I'm implying without taking account the whole story, an opinion base on an incomplete foretelling of the whole event/ story. In the case of the Unilord Saga, why not show/ post how it ended in Silver Surfer 118/119 when Surfer came out of the rift and reconnected to 616.

We've been here before Abby! It goes round and round and and and it does not go well for you. smile
You mean the silver light which was never confirmed to be alternate silver surfer who stayed back in the unilord universe? I know all about your wild theories which you brought up the last time we "discussed" it. It was laughable then and its laughable now. But pray tell us of how a silver light means it was silver surfer merged with another silver surfer, yet never showing double the power of silver surfer. Please do, I want a good laugh.

Warlord
Ambient: cool the first scan is great, if it is indeed applicable to 616 surfer.
For the second one, while impressive, I am not sure creating a black hole measures better than the godblast.

Still thanks for the first scan, wasn't aware of it

janus77
I'd definitely put that black hole above the godblast. That blackhole was scary even for Thanos.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by janus77
I'd definitely put that black hole above the godblast. That blackhole was scary even for Thanos.

no expression

Warlord
Originally posted by janus77
I'd definitely put that black hole above the godblast. That blackhole was scary even for Thanos.

yet your everyday Herald walks casually through a blackhole. Same can't be said for the godblast

janus77
Originally posted by Warlord
yet your everyday Herald walks casually through a blackhole. Same can't be said for the godblast
Marvel Universe blackholes vary in strength, quite a few examples of this are depicted in comics.

The most recent one I can think of is the one that pulled Surfer into Sakaar. It left him unconscious for days. Also there's the one that ripped Thanos up pretty badly too.

Warlord
could be a variation in the black holes force or the subect's durability. The latter is much more common in comics. However the godblast has been portrayed consistently at top level energy blasts in Marvel

Ambient
Originally posted by abhilegend
You mean the silver light which was never confirmed to be alternate silver surfer who stayed back in the unilord universe? I know all about your wild theories which you brought up the last time we "discussed" it. It was laughable then and its laughable now. But pray tell us of how a silver light means it was silver surfer merged with another silver surfer, yet never showing double the power of silver surfer. Please do, I want a good laugh.
So pray tell what it supposed to be? The silver comet that came out the Unilord rift at the end of the Unilord arc. The same findings that Both Quasar and BRB felt at the beginning of that arc. the Silver Comet that was looking and merge when it found 616 Surfer and get this at THE END OF THE UNILORD STORY. why would this be included if it's not supposed to be in the story?

janus77
Nothing to do with the "subject's durability" as Surfer has casually moved through blackholes too. And Thanos has tanked all sorts of forces in the past (and since).

It's just that not all blackholes are the same 'strength', some, like the one Surfer created, are very dangerous to even the trans-level figures.

Warlord
Originally posted by janus77
Nothing to do with the "subject's durability" as Surfer has casually moved through blackholes too. And Thanos has tanked all sorts of forces in the past (and since).

It's just that not all blackholes are the same 'strength', some, like the one Surfer created, are very dangerous to even the trans-level figures.

now you are acting like the same forces haven't harm people who have shown resistance to them before in comics, but whatever

Ambient
Originally posted by Warlord
Ambient: cool the first scan is great, if it is indeed applicable to 616 surfer.
For the second one, while impressive, I am not sure creating a black hole measures better than the godblast.

Still thanks for the first scan, wasn't aware of it

My pleasure.

Damn Blackberry phone.

janus77
Originally posted by Warlord
now you are acting like the same forces haven't harm people who have shown resistance to them before in comics, but whatever
No I'm not, I'm just acknowledging that Marvel have depicted blackholes of variable strength.

Read Planet Hulk, it even says that the blackhole to Sakaar is particularly strong - just one example of this variable power.

Ambient
Not too sure on black hole comparable to GB, it's destructive powers varies and without someone actually being affected by it, we can only speculate. Thought Thanos did seem to be scared with The one Surfer created but is it enough to put his life in danger?

Warlord
Originally posted by Ambient
Not too sure on black hole comparable to GB, it's destructive powers varies and without someone actually being affected by it, we can only speculate. Thought Thanos did seem to be scared with The one Surfer created but is it enough to put his life in danger? that's what I'm saying...not easilly compared blast to blast...the first scan though...

abhilegend
Originally posted by Ambient
So pray tell what it supposed to be? The silver comet that came out the Unilord rift at the end of the Unilord arc. The same findings that Both Quasar and BRB felt at the beginning of that arc. the Silver Comet that was looking and merge when it found 616 Surfer and get this at THE END OF THE UNILORD STORY. why would this be included if it's not supposed to be in the story? Who knows? The arc is just a hot mess. What we do know is that the alternate silver surfer was back in his universe to see the life grow in his universe.

http://imgur.com/irMBFGL

After he dispersed all the souls in infinite timelines and whatnot.


http://imgur.com/A4531JZ

So any power up he received was gone.

Then the silver light was again received by surfer which were stated to be the same distress call BRB and Quasar felt at the start of the arc and surfer was muttering 101.

http://imgur.com/RokXt8o
http://imgur.com/btAZswh
http://imgur.com/wKhPyaO
http://imgur.com/AvMdOrZ


Also you're the guy who is claiming that another silver surfer was merged with 616 surfer without any kind of proof, power increase, memory insurgence or shit like that. All you've is that it was a silver light and it was included in the end of the arc. We see that it was nothing but another 101 distress call in the next issue. There is not even an implication that another surfer was merged with this one.

Ambient
Originally posted by abhilegend
Who knows? The arc is just a hot mess. What we do know is that the alternate silver surfer was back in his universe to see the life grow in his universe.

http://imgur.com/irMBFGL

After he dispersed all the souls in infinite timelines and whatnot.


http://imgur.com/A4531JZ

So any power up he received was gone.

Then the silver light was again received by surfer which were stated to be the same distress call BRB and Quasar felt at the start of the arc and surfer was muttering 101.

http://imgur.com/RokXt8o
http://imgur.com/btAZswh
http://imgur.com/wKhPyaO
http://imgur.com/AvMdOrZ


Also you're the guy who is claiming that another silver surfer was merged with 616 surfer without any kind of proof, power increase, memory insurgence or shit like that. All you've is that it was a silver light and it was included in the end of the arc. We see that it was nothing but another 101 distress call in the next issue. There is not even an implication that another surfer was merged with this one.
Yes! We got all that.

U know when u flip to the next art to see what's happened next that's called another page, it might have some numbers in there like 22, 23, 24 and etc - etc. so after looking at the page that you kindly showed us via scan, you flip to the next page and What in there entails us is that the narrator specifically says that's another story to be told, "the Surfers universe." Then it brings us back to the current where the rift opened in 616 universe, the same rift that the unilord Surfer traverse then we flip to the next page, where a silver comet came out
Of the rift as if looking for something then to the next page, and it found 616 Surfer and according to both Bill and Quasar the comet/ ball of silver fire to be exact was not going fast and could be avoided easy by 616 Surfer but he was in a trance and muttering binary # code then impact/ merged they thought Surfer got annihilated but was unharmed. This story correlates with 616 universe wither u like it or not.

Only the energy he release but the upgrade was his permanently, he configured himself for the upgrade to absorb those energies.

Lol another distress call.. Now your just reaching.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Ambient
Yes! We got all that. Not you apparently.

No need to be a dick bro.

http://i.imgur.com/FuAHAeL.jpg

Nothing of that sort was said about surfer's universe or another story. This is new even for you, making your own comics.
No, the light merged with him and then the muttering came. Surfer was shown without any trans before that.

http://i.imgur.com/wKhPyaO.img

It never implies any kind of merger.

Means very little. Surfer re-configuring doesn't means he was altered.

Irony meter exploded. You're the guy telling us that surfer has twice the power he once had and he never showed it once after it? Amazing reach there bro.

Supra
Can Odin use power cosmic on any level?

janus77
Good question. By proxy, I'm sure he can. Like Doom and others, devices can be made to utilise the Power Cosmic.

The only overlap between Odin Force and Power Cosmic, that I recall was when Surfer synthesised the Odin Force to recreate BRB's mallet for him.

Supra
Originally posted by janus77
Good question. By proxy, I'm sure he can. Like Doom and others, devices can be made to utilise the Power Cosmic.

The only overlap between Odin Force and Power Cosmic, that I recall was when Surfer synthesised the Odin Force to recreate BRB's mallet for him.

Can odin amp with cosmic? I knew it Surfer can create the hammer!!

Ambient
Originally posted by abhilegend
No need to be a dick bro.

http://i.imgur.com/FuAHAeL.jpg

Nothing of that sort was said about surfer's universe or another story. This is new even for you, making your own comics.
No, the light merged with him and then the muttering came. Surfer was shown without any trans before that.

My recollection of it was a bit vague but you help a bit with the scan. Right there it say's when Surfer ask about his Universe at previous page. He State's "My Universe." and then the next page the narrator say's, "It will remain to be an answered for now." Same thing. This is what im referring to when you speak about the unilord Universe which becomes the Silver Surfer Universe. It remains to be told and then it brings us to the continuity when and after the rift.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, the light merged with him and then the muttering came. Surfer was shown without any trans before that.

http://i.imgur.com/wKhPyaO.img

It never implies any kind of merger.

Means very little. Surfer re-configuring doesn't means he was altered.

No! Bill states when Surfer was at trance, he was muttering binary code. But really it makes no diff. what of importance is that the Silver light came for Surfer from the Unilord rift which correlate to my point, came and made contact/merge.

Its very clear to me. Everything about this arc is mergence; from Grandpractioneer fey, the 9 silver Surfer, The blackbody Surfer to the Unilords defeat by his hands. All of this is merging, heck the souls gathered by the blackbodies purpose was for merging. So when the Silver Comet hit 616 Surfer, trust me that was a merging.

He reconfigured his form to merge with the guardian blockbody; to be able to accept the energy the blockbody consumed. You can look at it what you like, but the point is, it made him much more than he was therefore an upgrade to his form.


Dude! Where did i say he was twice as powerful. But if you want example of what made him diff. prior to that upgrade: How about; the ability to merge with body of planetary mass, higher energy projection, higher energy absorption capacity.

I think the problem here is simple, accepting this feat as canon to Surfer would make the gap between your boy, Supes farther and farther. And you just can't have that can you. Lol'ed
Originally posted by Supra
Can odin amp with cosmic? I knew it Surfer can create the hammer!!
Yeah! Mystic energy greatly amps with PC and vice versa.

EX.
Thanos
Morg with Wol

Nibedicus
Originally posted by Supra
Can odin amp with cosmic? I knew it Surfer can create the hammer!!

Here's the actual scene.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-06.jpg

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/surfistaprateado/media/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-07.jpg.html

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/surfistaprateado/media/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-08.jpg.html

And an explanation of what happened:

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/surfistaprateado/media/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-10.jpg.html

All seeing all father didn't see it coming. :-p

Supra
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Here's the actual scene.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-06.jpg

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/surfistaprateado/media/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-07.jpg.html

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/surfistaprateado/media/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-08.jpg.html

And an explanation of what happened:

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/surfistaprateado/media/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-10.jpg.html

All seeing all father didn't see it coming. :-p


Dude I would really love to read those but the text is so small is there any way to blow them up?

Nibedicus
There's actually a "zoom in" command at the bottom right of each panel. It's a magnifying glass with a "+" on it. Tho I'm not sure if it's really available on everyone's screen.

Supra
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Here's the actual scene.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-06.jpg

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/surfistaprateado/media/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-07.jpg.html

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/surfistaprateado/media/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-08.jpg.html

And an explanation of what happened:

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/surfistaprateado/media/CosmicPowersUnlimited05-10.jpg.html

All seeing all father didn't see it coming. :-p

Heck no, so the stormbreaker is now more powerful then before and BRB will be more powerful now?

Also Odin did not seem to happy!!

Im so happy to read these scans!!

To me this proves SS is more powerful then the All Father

Ambient
Originally posted by Supra
Heck no, so the stormbreaker is now more powerful then before and BRB will be more powerful now?

Also Odin did not seem to happy!!

Im so happy to read these scans!!

To me this proves SS is more powerful then the All Father
Stormbreaker is actually back to normal form, don't know how this came about, I guess that's another story to be told.

Odin didn't like how Surfer went about the manipulation of Bills biology and form but that's about it. If Odin wanted to, he could probably farther enhance bill outside Surfer scope.

No! Surfer is not at the level of All Father Odin, not even close.

Nibedicus
Let's not go overboard now. SS and Odin aren't even comparable powerlvl-wise. Def a low "feat" for Odin and a PIS-y "feat" for Surfer.... Least IMO.

janus77
Originally posted by Supra
Heck no, so the stormbreaker is now more powerful then before and BRB will be more powerful now?

Also Odin did not seem to happy!!

Im so happy to read these scans!!

To me this proves SS is more powerful then the All Father
lol, I wish.

For every half-decent showing Surfer gets, Marvel bring him down way low with a fall from his board or a fight with Thor or Thanos where he does nothing but just blast and move - slowly - trying to reason/monologue.

That is impressive though, having conned Odin and having taken his own magics - albeit in a synthetic substitute form - and actually been responsible for bringing BRB back to life (curing cancer!).

I wonder why Marvel let Captain Marvel die of cancer, when Surfer could simply cure him with a wave of his hand.


Oh and Surfer's also healed up Thor, when Thor's own powers couldn't get the job done.

I think Surfer simply isn't of the mindset to utilise his powers fully or very much at all. Which makes him look much much less powerful. If he had the same mentality as say Superman or Thor, he would be ranked a solid tier above them.

Supra
Originally posted by janus77
lol, I wish.

For every half-decent showing Surfer gets, Marvel bring him down way low with a fall from his board or a fight with Thor or Thanos where he does nothing but just blast and move - slowly - trying to reason/monologue.

That is impressive though, having conned Odin and having taken his own magics - albeit in a synthetic substitute form - and actually been responsible for bringing BRB back to life (curing cancer!).

I wonder why Marvel let Captain Marvel die of cancer, when Surfer could simply cure him with a wave of his hand.


Oh and Surfer's also healed up Thor, when Thor's own powers couldn't get the job done.

I think Surfer simply isn't of the mindset to utilise his powers fully or very much at all. Which makes him look much much less powerful. If he had the same mentality as say Superman or Thor, he would be ranked a solid tier above them.


Well hes like Reed Richards but with better powers.. always trying to reason with people instead of fighting. I give him credit for that.. a few questions though.

Can he be destroyed, is he immortal, does he age?

Ambient
Yes! he can be destroyed, he does not age and his immortal.

Not as brilliant as Reed dough.

Supra
Originally posted by Ambient
Yes! he can be destroyed, he does not age and his immortal.

Not as brilliant as Reed dough.

If he is immortal but can destroyed, can he reform himself?

janus77
Originally posted by Supra
If he is immortal but can destroyed, can he reform himself?
Within reason yes, he can return from atoms and as he has absolute control over his atoms (and phenomenal control over atoms and molecules in general) he can become anything and take any shape.

He's been sliced and diced and reformed instantly, he's been smashed to atoms by UniLord and reformed instantly and he's completely dispersed his physical body - becoming one with a whole mountain range - only to reform instantly when The Defenders needed him.

Still, if Galactus hadn't brought him back from the dead, I think he would have remained dead after The Crunch Energies feat against Tenebrous & Aegis.

Short answer, I guess, as with everything else in comics, is it depends on who is doing the killing.

janus77
And yes, sadly, way way way way way below Reed Richards in terms of sense or intelligence sad.

The whole Herald of the devourer thing has him melancholic, bordering emo ... If he were a teenage girl, he'd be a statistic.

Supra
Originally posted by janus77
Within reason yes, he can return from atoms and as he has absolute control over his atoms (and phenomenal control over atoms and molecules in general) he can become anything and take any shape.

He's been sliced and diced and reformed instantly, he's been smashed to atoms by UniLord and reformed instantly and he's completely dispersed his physical body - becoming one with a whole mountain range - only to reform instantly when The Defenders needed him.

Still, if Galactus hadn't brought him back from the dead, I think he would have remained dead after The Crunch Energies feat against Tenebrous & Aegis.

Short answer, I guess, as with everything else in comics, is it depends on who is doing the killing.

So then his cosmic powers make him rival god power from top skyfathers and celestials.

Supra
Originally posted by janus77
And yes, sadly, way way way way way below Reed Richards in terms of sense or intelligence sad.

The whole Herald of the devourer thing has him melancholic, bordering emo ... If he were a teenage girl, he'd be a statistic.

He's no more a scientist he's a heraldsmile

Ambient
Originally posted by Supra
If he is immortal but can destroyed, can he reform himself?
That would have to depend in the energy he currently have at his disposal.

For example in his fight with Madrukk, Surfer was reduce to mere atoms and was still conscious, alive and fighting in this form.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/c/237/ssvsmarduk3hu0.jpg

Another instant, when fighting the Unilord. He was reduce to atoms and reformed himself.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/c/70/unilord2eb3.jpg

There are two instances as well when he was split/ cut into diff. parts and still manage to reform.

Supra
So he really cannot die and is an ageless immortal.

Nibedicus
Doh

Jynocidus
Surfer synthesized the Odin force, Odin was like wtf

Supra
SS is supreme, he said what is Odin force? I have cosmic power...let me show you I can do it better.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by janus77
I'd definitely put that black hole above the godblast. That blackhole was scary even for Thanos. None of that is true

Anyway, Galactus in the first, and I'd say a tie in the second...

If the Godblast didn't exist, That thing is so far above Surfer, or any herald's output it's crazy.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Ambient
My recollection of it was a bit vague but you help a bit with the scan. Right there it say's when Surfer ask about his Universe at previous page. He State's "My Universe." and then the next page the narrator say's, "It will remain to be an answered for now." Same thing. Are you ****ing kidding me? How are they the same thing? Surfer asked a question and it remained unanswered. That's it. Who the **** cares? Its a what if universe, once it was told, its over.

And it has nothing that implies it was another silver surfer. Its just another distress signal.

Of course it is, you're believing your own fantasies. Nice conspiracy theory Roldz, now where is your proof that it was silver surfer to begin with?

So? Him re-configuring doesn't means he amped himself. No he didn't. The upgrade was lost, case closed.


And why not? He is merged with another silver surfer who in your words is even more poweful than him. By all logic he should be twice as much powerful. Nope, not a single comparison was made that he was more powerful than before.

Haha, sure roldz sure. Everything is connected to superman and surfer rivalry. I enjoy your desperation here. Just one small proof roldz, just one that the silver light was silver surfer. Not hard for someone like you, right?

Supra
SS Amped Wrecks Thor and Odin with power cosmic.

Bouboumaster
1- Galactus not only destroy Odin, but Asgard itself, if he wants to. He ****ing one-shot it, and there's nothing the Odin Force can do about it.

2- If we don't count the Godblast, I'd say Surfer. If we count it, Thor shit on Surfer.

Power Cosmic II
1. Galactus
2. Thor (godblast)

Whenever these power cosmic vs. Odin force discussions come up, I point out that the fact that SS being extremely comparable to Thor speaks volumes.

Specifically Thor Odinson, god of thunder and heir to the throne of Asgard, with millennia of combat experience and Asgardian tradition, second strongest in the Asgardian pantheon and wields a weapon enchanted by his father that is one of the most powerful asgardian relics....

....is evenly matched for the most part with a middle-aged, normal physique bald scientist/philosopher that Galactus endowed with the Power Cosmic for literally all of a few seconds with a gesture.

There's only one Thor, son of Odin and god of thunder. But the manner in which Galactus can effortlessly point his finger at some bald man or glorified space cop, a petty warlord or a really big man who cuts people's heads off for his day job, and turn them into beings that can challenge Thor should give you an idea of the scope of the power cosmic from Galactus.

If you really want to make a correct comparison based on the analog of Odin and Thor, then you should look at Galactus' "son," the being he created in his own image. Tyrant.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
1. Galactus
2. Thor (godblast)

Whenever these power cosmic vs. Odin force discussions come up, I point out that the fact that SS being extremely comparable to Thor speaks volumes.

Specifically Thor Odinson, god of thunder and heir to the throne of Asgard, with millennia of combat experience and Asgardian tradition, second strongest in the Asgardian pantheon and wields a weapon enchanted by his father that is one of the most powerful asgardian relics....

....is evenly matched for the most part with a middle-aged, normal physique bald scientist/philosopher that Galactus endowed with the Power Cosmic for literally all of a few seconds with a gesture.

There's only one Thor, son of Odin and god of thunder. But the manner in which Galactus can effortlessly point his finger at some bald man or glorified space cop, a petty warlord or a really big man who cuts people's heads off for his day job, and turn them into beings that can challenge Thor should give you an idea of the scope of the power cosmic from Galactus.

If you really want to make a correct comparison based on the analog of Odin and Thor, then you should look at Galactus' "son," the being he created in his own image. Tyrant.

You do realize that Odin can and has made Thor clones? Even at the end of Fear Itself, he waved his hand, and enchanted the weapons of the Mighty which they used to shit stomp the Worthy.

Creating high heralds with a wave of the hand isn't something beyond the capabilities of either Odin or Galactus and it's what really separates them from lesser beings like Thanos. Not to mention that the Odin Force is empowering not only the Asgardian race but the Nine Asgardian Worlds (Or Universes). And whatever connection it has to the World Tree/Cosmic Axis. From what I understand of the Power Cosmic, it permeates the Universe and can be recharged by various forms of energy such as ambient cosmic radiation. So yea, I'd say Odin's resources are more tied up.

Tyrant is more powerful then Thor but as I remember it, he was created to be a peer to Galactus and was imbued with a great deal of his power. We've seen just how powerful someone, even with a portion of direct Odin Force can be. For example, Heimdall with a small portion of the Odin Force or Thor vs. amped Thanosi (Both from an already weakened Odin).

I agree that the Odin Force is more finite then the Power Cosmic which is almost like a naturally occurring resource of the Universe but these are factors to consider when making such an observation.

Sundipped
With the power cosmic, Galactus created a low end cosmic (FP Tyrant), someone he destroyed galaxies with in battle. PC>>>>Odin Force.

zeel
Originally posted by Supra
SS Amped Wrecks Thor and Odin with power cosmic.


Ill believe it when I see it. till then surfer is not touching either. To many dam assumptions and what if and could possibly do theories on theses boards lately.

Supra
Originally posted by zeel
Ill believe it when I see it. till then surfer is not touching either. To many dam assumptions and what if and could possibly do theories on theses boards lately.

He resurrected BRB and re created Stormbreaker, see above

zopzop
Originally posted by Sundipped
With the power cosmic, Galactus created a low end cosmic (FP Tyrant)
mad
Urge to kill......................rising............

Supra
Originally posted by zopzop
mad
Urge to kill......................rising............

Don't flip out bro...dont do itsmile

Power Cosmic II
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You do realize that Odin can and has made Thor clones? Even at the end of Fear Itself, he waved his hand, and enchanted the weapons of the Mighty which they used to shit stomp the Worthy.

Creating high heralds with a wave of the hand isn't something beyond the capabilities of either Odin or Galactus and it's what really separates them from lesser beings like Thanos. Not to mention that the Odin Force is empowering not only the Asgardian race but the Nine Asgardian Worlds (Or Universes). And whatever connection it has to the World Tree/Cosmic Axis. From what I understand of the Power Cosmic, it permeates the Universe and can be recharged by various forms of energy such as ambient cosmic radiation. So yea, I'd say Odin's resources are more tied up.

Tyrant is more powerful then Thor but as I remember it, he was created to be a peer to Galactus and was imbued with a great deal of his power. We've seen just how powerful someone, even with a portion of direct Odin Force can be. For example, Heimdall with a small portion of the Odin Force or Thor vs. amped Thanosi (Both from an already weakened Odin).


I agree that the Odin Force is more finite then the Power Cosmic which is almost like a naturally occurring resource of the Universe but these are factors to consider when making such an observation.

What feats do the Thor clones have. And making asgardian weapons to arm earth heroes against foes empowered by odins brother just really boils down to asgardian magic vs asgardian magic. The scope of power is still the same.

Much of galactus' power is tied up with perpetually forestalling abraxas, an entity that can kill Roma with a mere kiss and destroy Eternity. That hasn't been retconned so it's highly contestable to say that odins power is more tied up.

Tyrants power grew over time. He didn't start off almost as powerful as galactus. That's another way he's analogous to thor

Supra
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
What feats do the Thor clones have. And making asgardian weapons to arm earth heroes against foes empowered by odins brother just really boils down to asgardian magic vs asgardian magic. The scope of power is still the same.

Much of galactus' power is tied up with perpetually forestalling abraxas, an entity that can kill Roma with a mere kiss and destroy Eternity. That hasn't been retconned so it's highly contestable to say that odins power is more tied up.

Tyrants power grew over time. He didn't start off almost as powerful as galactus. That's another way he's analogous to thor

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
"It is unwise to battle the Power Cosmic." - Silver Surfer smile

Supra
If SS can re create Stormbreaker from cosmic power can he wield it?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
What feats do the Thor clones have. And making asgardian weapons to arm earth heroes against foes empowered by odins brother just really boils down to asgardian magic vs asgardian magic. The scope of power is still the same.

Much of galactus' power is tied up with perpetually forestalling abraxas, an entity that can kill Roma with a mere kiss and destroy Eternity. That hasn't been retconned so it's highly contestable to say that odins power is more tied up.

Tyrants power grew over time. He didn't start off almost as powerful as galactus. That's another way he's analogous to thor

You were comparing Heralds like Surfer so why does the scope of power need to be any higher? Attuma showed us in his fight against Surfer that it really doesn't have to be. Odin waved his hands and enchanted the weapons with enough magic to whoop the Worthy. He also waved his hand and turned the weapons of the Worthy into paperweights.

I don't remember enough of the Abraxas saga to comment. What was their relationship again and how was it unique from the other alternate Galactus'?

Then that makes him even less relevant as a comparison, not more. no expression

Thor's ambition to gain more power culminated with Mjolnir for most of his life time. He doesn't seek more power to rival his father like Tyrant did with Galactus. Nor does Thor possess the ability to utilize the Odin Force directly in the same way Tyrant can the Power Cosmic from what I understand. A more accurate example would be Odin transferring the Odin Force into Thor to battle Surtur while drawing some energy from Asgard to battle Seth.

I'm curious how Asgardian magic fits into this since it's apparently a thing. For example, Surtur is an elemental entity of Asgardian magic. An interesting element to explore.

Supra
Power Cosmic with SS wins

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
http://heroenvy.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/hero-envy-silver-surfer-vs-thor8.jpg

janus77
That's a Loki-amped Surfer, iirc. And this thread isn't Surfer vs Thor.


Still, PC all the way for me.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Supra
Power Cosmic with SS wins

I don't understand how that proves the Power Cosmic is superior? As a matter of fact, Surfer says otherwise in that comic and Loki effortlessly breaks through Galactus' barrier being a God.

janus77
Power Cosmic is far superior. Surfer, not always so.

Supra
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't understand how that proves the Power Cosmic is superior? As a matter of fact, Surfer says otherwise in that comic and Loki effortlessly breaks through Galactus' barrier being a God.


This

Originally posted by janus77
Power Cosmic is far superior. Surfer, not always so.

Supra
Im understanding more and more that power cosmic is the basic makeup off all that is; SS and Galactus have complete control over..

However Odin is mainly magic based..

This has to be why Cosmic Power is far superior because its a fundamental real attack that is not magic based and by harnessing it you harness reality itself and it bends to your whim.

Therefore that is why SS can synthesize Odin force with Power Cosmic because basically Cosmic Energy makes up Odin Force Magic.

Am I correct in this assumption?

janus77
You probably have a better grasp of all this than Marvel does.

Their writers just throw shit on paper and ... meh, there's Cap using his shield to bop the bad guy ... Yeah! ... done.


PC was, might still be, the fundamental force of the omniverse. Everything in Marvel is affected by or created from it, in some way.

Galactus seems to have the most control over it and can actually endow such abilities to others (heralds, etc).

Not seen any other cosmic do that.

Supra
Originally posted by janus77
You probably have a better grasp of all this than Marvel does.


You made me blush love

Supra
Ok Amped SS say 50% over Maximum, can he take a full Godblast from Thor and survive?

cdtm
Hey Janus, speaking about the power cosmic:

Remember when Thanos gave an explanation as to how the conversion process works when Big G takes a herald, in Annihilation? He said something along the lines of "It doesn't bond with a soul.. It replaces it." Basically, that it feeds off the soul, and replaces it in the host.

Did that disturb you as much as it did me? It's kind of a worse retcon then when Alan Moore made Swamp Thing a plant elemental who thought he was a human, because at least the actual human's immortal soul got to go to an afterlife.. But Norrin's soul was eaten, and now he's this soulless construct with Norrin's memories? sick

Supra
Why do you think SS can eat souls...

Utrigita
1. Galactus
2. Split (minus Godblast, else Thor)

Epicurus
1)Galactus.
2)Thor.

Epicurus
Anyways, has anyone considered the possibility of these two power sources being tied together thanks to the Galactus-Seed/World-Heart storyline which Fraction introduced and Hickman elaborated upon a year or 2 back?

Epicurus
Originally posted by Supra
So then his cosmic powers make him rival god power from top skyfathers and celestials.
Nope. He's not even close to skyfather level, and Celestials are a whole different animal to compare a high herald to.

Supra
Originally posted by Epicurus
Nope. He's not even close to skyfather level, and Celestials are a whole different animal to compare a high herald to.

So he cant beat Odin?

Epicurus
^Yes. In all the comic book interactions that these 2 characters have had, Odin has come off looking vastly superior to the Surfer.

abhilegend
He casually oneshotted him after ignoring his and Thanos' combined attack TBH.

cdtm
Originally posted by janus77

I wonder why Marvel let Captain Marvel die of cancer, when Surfer could simply cure him with a wave of his hand.




Been awhile, but from what I remember, one of the reasons they were having trouble in general was because the q bands protective powers were blocking their attempts to use exotic energies, but they were also the only thing keeping him alive. Remove the bands for a pc cure, and he'd probably drop dead as soon as they came off.

Sundipped
Originally posted by zopzop
mad
Urge to kill......................rising............

Submit the title of your choice good sir:

"With the power cosmic, Galactus created a low end cosmic in FP Tyrant"

zopzop
Originally posted by Sundipped
Submit the title of your choice good sir:

"With the power cosmic, Galactus created a low end cosmic his peer in FP Tyrant"
Marz didn't really get into it, but under Lackey's (God help us) pen, Galactus created Tyrant to be sort of his opposite to balance each other out. Tyrant draws power from the biospheres of every planet in the universe, Galactus devours planets to survive.

leonidas
Originally posted by Epicurus
Anyways, has anyone considered the possibility of these two power sources being tied together thanks to the Galactus-Seed/World-Heart storyline which Fraction introduced and Hickman elaborated upon a year or 2 back?

lol

i suggested that idea on the forum a lonngggg time back--years ago. it would be very cool if ultimately it was proven to be true.

Supra
Originally posted by leonidas
lol

i suggested that idea on the forum a lonngggg time back--years ago. it would be very cool if ultimately it was proven to be true.

I think I proved that Odin Magic is made up from cosmic energy.

Power Cosmic II
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You were comparing Heralds like Surfer so why does the scope of power need to be any higher? Attuma showed us in his fight against Surfer that it really doesn't have to be. Odin waved his hands and enchanted the weapons with enough magic to whoop the Worthy. He also waved his hand and turned the weapons of the Worthy into paperweights.

I don't remember enough of the Abraxas saga to comment. What was their relationship again and how was it unique from the other alternate Galactus'?

Then that makes him even less relevant as a comparison, not more. no expression

Thor's ambition to gain more power culminated with Mjolnir for most of his life time. He doesn't seek more power to rival his father like Tyrant did with Galactus. Nor does Thor possess the ability to utilize the Odin Force directly in the same way Tyrant can the Power Cosmic from what I understand. A more accurate example would be Odin transferring the Odin Force into Thor to battle Surtur while drawing some energy from Asgard to battle Seth.

I'm curious how Asgardian magic fits into this since it's apparently a thing. For example, Surtur is an elemental entity of Asgardian magic. An interesting element to explore.

Because the herald scope of power is a direct reference to Galactus' Power Cosmic that he imbues to others. The very name of the tier "herald" that we use on KMC is derived from the 2 to 5 second zap that Galactus gives to mortal men to transform them into beings much more powerful than your high end, non-omega level mutant/high end metahuman. Odin creating weapons with a wave of his hand to arm the likes of Wolverine and Hawkeye to fight the worthy...the Worthy were defeated when odin reclaimed their enchanted Asgardian weapons. That's like saying Morg (whom Galactus created with a wave of his hand) can defeat the Silver Surfer (whom Galactus created with a wave of his hand). The feats belong to Morg/Wolverine/Hawkeye, but to the originators of the power, in this case Galactus and Odin, it's not really a feat. It's them manipulating their own power bases (taking it from others, giving it to others), *all in the same scope*.

Abraxas is the embodiment of the concept of destruction in the MU. Galactus permanently dedicates an undisclosed amount of his personal power to keeping Abraxas restrained from enacting his role. Only 616 Galactus does this..if an alternate Galactus dies, Abraxas is not released. Odin can power the 9 Realms (which I'd argue are pocket universes...not full on universes) and all its inhabitants, but Galactus restrains an entity that can destroy the Eternity (not his m-body, not one of his "local" representations, but Eternity himself, AKA Multi-Eternity), who by definition, includes all the 9 Realms in his person along with the rest of the marvel multiverse. So again, I disagree with the statement that Odin's resources are more tied up. The Power Cosmic can be recharged at a very localized level by absorbing ambient cosmic energy...the higher up you go, the more energy needs to be absorbed. Thus all Surfer needs to do is hang out in space for a little bit to feel stronger, while Galactus needs to consume an entire planet or even a star to recharge and he needs to do that on a monthly basis. The Odin Force can also be recharged. The Odinsleep.

I wasn't making the comparison of Thor's and Tyrant's will but their origins. Thor is a singular unique being in the asgardian pantheon in that he is Odin's son. Now I don't know if Odin can simply wave his hand and make another Thor if Thor himself dies, but it goes without saying that Galactus can wave his hand and replace any herald who dies with a new one 5 seconds later. The same can't be said for Tyrant. Basically i'm arguing off the logic of who is "irreplaceable." From that standpoint, I equate the analogy of Tyrant is to Galactus as Thor is to Odin. In terms of will, goals and the like, no. But in terms of origin..yes. Even when Galactus went to confront Odin for the Seed, he literally waved his hand and created those ridiculous "space demons" to handle the rank and file asgardians.

Naija boy
Galactus
Thor due to godblast

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
Because the herald scope of power is a direct reference to Galactus' Power Cosmic that he imbues to others. The very name of the tier "herald" that we use on KMC is derived from the 2 to 5 second zap that Galactus gives to mortal men to transform them into beings much more powerful than your high end, non-omega level mutant/high end metahuman. Odin creating weapons with a wave of his hand to arm the likes of Wolverine and Hawkeye to fight the worthy...the Worthy were defeated when odin reclaimed their enchanted Asgardian weapons. That's like saying Morg (whom Galactus created with a wave of his hand) can defeat the Silver Surfer (whom Galactus created with a wave of his hand). The feats belong to Morg/Wolverine/Hawkeye, but to the originators of the power, in this case Galactus and Odin, it's not really a feat. It's them manipulating their own power bases (taking it from others, giving it to others), *all in the same scope*.

Abraxas is the embodiment of the concept of destruction in the MU. Galactus permanently dedicates an undisclosed amount of his personal power to keeping Abraxas restrained from enacting his role. Only 616 Galactus does this..if an alternate Galactus dies, Abraxas is not released. Odin can power the 9 Realms (which I'd argue are pocket universes...not full on universes) and all its inhabitants, but Galactus restrains an entity that can destroy the Eternity (not his m-body, not one of his "local" representations, but Eternity himself, AKA Multi-Eternity), who by definition, includes all the 9 Realms in his person along with the rest of the marvel multiverse. So again, I disagree with the statement that Odin's resources are more tied up. The Power Cosmic can be recharged at a very localized level by absorbing ambient cosmic energy...the higher up you go, the more energy needs to be absorbed. Thus all Surfer needs to do is hang out in space for a little bit to feel stronger, while Galactus needs to consume an entire planet or even a star to recharge and he needs to do that on a monthly basis. The Odin Force can also be recharged. The Odinsleep.

I wasn't making the comparison of Thor's and Tyrant's will but their origins. Thor is a singular unique being in the asgardian pantheon in that he is Odin's son. Now I don't know if Odin can simply wave his hand and make another Thor if Thor himself dies, but it goes without saying that Galactus can wave his hand and replace any herald who dies with a new one 5 seconds later. The same can't be said for Tyrant. Basically i'm arguing off the logic of who is "irreplaceable." From that standpoint, I equate the analogy of Tyrant is to Galactus as Thor is to Odin. In terms of will, goals and the like, no. But in terms of origin..yes. Even when Galactus went to confront Odin for the Seed, he literally waved his hand and created those ridiculous "space demons" to handle the rank and file asgardians.

Odin pretty much can make another "Thor"

examples

BRB
Red Norrvel
Thunderstrike

etc...

All equal to Thor in power

Sundipped
Originally posted by zopzop
Marz didn't really get into it, but under Lackey's (God help us) pen, Galactus created Tyrant to be sort of his opposite to balance each other out. Tyrant draws power from the biospheres of every planet in the universe, Galactus devours planets to survive.

Yeah but Big G is above FP Tyrant due to Tyrant losing in a direct confrontation. Galactus=high end cosmic, FP Tyrant= low to mid cosmic.

Some writer needs to snatch Tyrant out of the realm of nullification and bring him back.

janus77
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Odin pretty much can make another "Thor"

examples

BRB
Red Norrvel
Thunderstrike

etc...

All equal to Thor in power
Odin can't make "another Thor", he never made the first one alone so how would he do it in the above instances.

Thor has some of his mother's mojo, which empowers him to some level or other (Chaos Wars, the prayer/spark amp thing).

And none of the guys listed are on the same level as Thor. Unless you believe Thor would be trounced as easily as BRB was by Surfer (when Surfer is less charitable than usual).

abhilegend
Originally posted by Sundipped
Yeah but Big G is above FP Tyrant due to Tyrant losing in a direct confrontation. Galactus=high end cosmic, FP Tyrant= low to mid cosmic.

Some writer needs to snatch Tyrant out of the realm of nullification and bring him back.
Why? Tyrant was such a horrible character that even Ron Marz, his creator refused to bring him back.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why? Tyrant was such a horrible character that even Ron Marz, his creator refused to bring him back.
Shut up sad

Sundipped
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why? Tyrant was such a horrible character that even Ron Marz, his creator refused to bring him back.

I like the back story and I believe he can be expanded upon in the bio-organic and technopath areas he claimed to have mastery of. He's a being who's skyfather level with the potential to be borderline abstract. Ron doesn't have to be the one to work him.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by janus77
Odin can't make "another Thor", he never made the first one alone so how would he do it in the above instances.

Thor has some of his mother's mojo, which empowers him to some level or other (Chaos Wars, the prayer/spark amp thing).

And none of the guys listed are on the same level as Thor. Unless you believe Thor would be trounced as easily as BRB was by Surfer (when Surfer is less charitable than usual).

You are wrong by far, All the ones listed are all equal to Thor in power,

Thor however is more skilled then the others ans his will power is what makes him come up on top.

The enchantment of the hammers makes them "Thor"

So yes Odin can make other Thors,

zopzop
Originally posted by Sundipped
IHe's a being who's skyfather level............
Blood pressure............reaching critical mass..........mad


Blood pressure.....stabilizing.......cool


ANYONE, except Bendis (yes even Hickman), would do. I mean no one could do a worse job than Lackey. Good Lord that guy sucked.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop

Blood pressure............reaching critical mass..........mad


Blood pressure.....stabilizing.......cool


ANYONE, except Bendis (yes even Hickman), would do. I mean no one could do a worse job than Lackey. Good Lord that guy sucked.
What do you mean? You didn't enjoy Morg calling silver surfer a sissy?

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Shut up sad
I don't know why anybody would even like the character? You and sundipped are the only two guys I've ever met that like the character. Why?

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
What do you mean? You didn't enjoy Morg calling silver surfer a sissy?
LOL, that's not even the worst of it. He called Tyrant "butt face" and talked about "icing" aka killing him. Lackey must have been on crack when he wrote that SS arc.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't know why anybody would even like the character? You and sundipped are the only two guys I've ever met that like the character. Why?
Because he's awesome. Also I think Quan and like 2 or 3 other forum members are fans.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
LOL, that's not even the worst of it. He called Tyrant "butt face" and talked about "icing" aka killing him. Lackey must have been on crack when he wrote that SS arc.

Because he's awesome. Also I think Quan and like 2 or 3 other forum members are fans.
Ah yes, that was quite painful to read.


Tyrant was many thing, awesome wasn't one of them. They aren't fans of character, just his power level.

Ambient
A little late than never, got a bit too busy during the holiday and vacations. - Sorry Abhi but do enjoy a bit of our exchange retort.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you ****ing kidding me? How are they the same thing? Surfer asked a question and it remained unanswered.

That's it. Who the **** cares? Its a what if universe, once it was told, its over.
The question being referred to is his Universe, The same Universe being discussed but you are right, who the **** cares? I am not dis-agreeing regarding, it not being a "what if Universe/ world " however what i am trying to point out is that this arc interconnected to 616 Universe therefore becoming canon to 616 Surfer.

Yes the story was over after, Unilord Surfer came out of the rift and NOT when he ask about his Universe and was responded by the narrator that " it remains to be told" - which means it still to be written - "The same Universe we are discussing".

So a Silver streak of light, a silver comet that came out of the rift to 616 Universe, the same rift the Unilord Surfer traveled to return to 616 Universe, and in the same story arc does in no way suggest its not interconnected/ the same figure.??? That's absurd.

That would be like me saying this is not Superman.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa312/RRoldz/a49d7706-7b63-468f-9227-ee1e78ef5222.jpg

Was the first distress signal delivered this way?? Was it delivered @ multiple light speed in a blazing silver fire? Let me answer that, NO. So why would you believed or say its a distress signal??? I just can't understand how you've come to this conclusion, it just does not make any sense.

The proof is depicted in the art. /\ /\ /\

How about you? Where is your proof that what came out of the rift is another distress signal?

What exactly justify for you as an AMP?

Got any proof of that? how was it lost?

Fine! If you say so. Im OK with that, just you remember that came from you not me. laughing

Does everything have to be describe in detailed wording to make a comparison? There is ample of feat after the Unilord Saga like i have mentioned that clearly made him better than he was after this upgrade. An example: the capacity to absorb energy; ie. he went nuts when he tried to absorb so much energy during Infinity War but was fine during Unilord run after his upgrade.

Your actually looking more desperate here. I give you reason and proof as to why i believed the silver light, silver fire, silver comet was The Silver Surfer. Vice Versa, What is your proof that it was not?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Ambient
A little late than never, got a bit too busy during the holiday and vacations. - Sorry Abhi but do enjoy a bit of our exchange retort. I experienced many thing in our retort, enjoyment wasn't one of them though.

No, there isn't. There isn't a single proof of that despite all your speculations.

No, it wasn't. Post the scan where "it remains to be told" was stated BTW.

Yes, the distress code was silverish too. No, your theory/speculation is. Surfer got merged with another surfer without any mention at all? Rubbish.

Superman was specified there bro. You know what the crazy part is? Superman has indeed been split into two supermen each with superman's powers and then merged back. Supergirl too.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc141/Supergirl_Respect/onlyone.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc141/Supergirl_Respect/onlyone2.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc141/Supergirl_Respect/onlyone3.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc141/Supergirl_Respect/onlyone4.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc141/Supergirl_Respect/onlyone5.jpg


Does that mean they are twice as powerful as a single superman or supergirl now? Funny logic.

Yes. Yes. It makes better sense than your theory though.

Nope.

Surfer's muttering of 101.

Explicitly stated to be more powerful than ever.

Surfer dispersed it himself.

Sarcasm isn't your forte. Superman would be several times more powerful each time he gets split and merged back by black kryptonite.

There must be a single statement or implication to validate something as bizarre as merging two surfers. That's not a proof of an upgrade. Even before Unilord saga, he absorbed enough energy to change sun from red to yellow. Characters vary in their feats like those.

Hahahaha. You want me to believe Surfer gets the feats of an amped surfer from a what if because there was a silver light even though the amp that made surfer make that feat was gone? You need some concrete proof. You didn't give shit. Your desperation is laughable.

Ambient
Originally posted by abhilegend
I experienced many thing in our retort, enjoyment wasn't one of them though.
At least one of us is enjoying it and one who enjoy is less likely to be desperate, "desperate" a word u seemed to repeatedly say towards someone u argue against. Wonders the truth of it laughing

Lol. Didn't know u blind too dude, cause there is plenty evidence on it made direct from the art. Rather than keep repeating no proof, no proof why don't u just counter my argument with some backing.
unanswered I meant. But really who cares, the part where he was shown a glimpse of his universe. You have to remember the Okkapa are psyche beings. He was in the rift why would he be in the unilord universe in that instant? What matters is that, this was not the end of the arc and u can't make decision base on an unfinished story to be told.

eek! What? Did it also come at multiple light speed and knock them out unconscious when they received it. Whose desperate again?

Yeah! But I'm just referring to that streak of red blue light, that was not specified as Superman. As far as I can tell, could be just a distress signal. That just sound stupid right? It's just exactly how it sounds like in your reference to the silver comet/ fire/ light coming out of the rift being referred to at the end of the Unilord saga. If your looking for specification, this was stated as silver surfer when he entered in the rift. Also might I add that there is absolutely no hint bearing in any of the arc that suggest another distress/ message being sent to 616? Like I said I'm quite confuse as to your conclusion to that finding, might help if you explain why u think it this way?

Proof? Scan? Evidence?

Again Proof? Scan? Evidence? laughing

Theory? Nice try dude. It's fact as provided proof thru the art it's depicted from and the flow of event in the story. You have non but speculation on your part - clear desperate attempt in disallow - ing this event on Surfer? There is clear reason as to why laughing .

laughing laughing out loud your the one who stated that not me.

The energy he absorb from the Unilord, is what he disperse, not the upgrade.

Was there a single statement in the arc, the merging of the several surfer parts to the local beings that became the surfers of that Universe? No. Was there a single statement in the arc of the merging of grandmaster fey to Norrin rad? No. was there a single statement of the merging of the Unilord and Surfer? No. Did the art validate the merging of all this specified event in the story? He'll yes. The art and flow of the story unfolding is what validated of "merging" in this arc. It does not have to be a statement that can validate thing, the art is foremost in validating an event.
What? When? Issue #?
Yes to the point where the silver light which sounded more grand in the issue merged with 616 surfer. The energy he release in the rift is from the ones he absorbs from Unilord and not the upgrade.

Dude! Don't pretend to be illiterate, I know u can read. I've given you my proof back by the art it's depicted. Now, I ask u to present your proof to counter my argument?

laughing laughing come on you can do better than that. Your disgruntled cause u have no comeback to my point? If u have nothing to say, just say it so and I'll stop making you looking way more bad. I mean I am genuine - ly feeling sorry for the ownage you've been receiving in the threads I've read so far this morning. Really laughing out loud

cdtm
Originally posted by janus77
Odin can't make "another Thor", he never made the first one alone so how would he do it in the above instances.

Thor has some of his mother's mojo, which empowers him to some level or other (Chaos Wars, the prayer/spark amp thing).

And none of the guys listed are on the same level as Thor. Unless you believe Thor would be trounced as easily as BRB was by Surfer (when Surfer is less charitable than usual).

Well, I think Surfer would win over either, but Bill's taken a ton more punishment then what Surfer did to him. Blood and Thunder being a good example, where Bill took beating after beating, and kept coming, while Surfer went down relatively easily. Or Stormbreaker, when he was grappling amped up Stardust with his bare hands, and survived being squashed like a bug by Galactus himself...

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>