Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Setting: Mustafar
States: Peak

Ages

Obi-Wan Kenobi - 37

Darth Maul - 34

Anakin Skywalker - 22

Savage Opress - 37

Saber Styles

Obi-Wan Kenobi - Shii-Cho (mastered), Soresu (mastered), Ataru (advanced), Shien (adept), Niman/Jar'Kai (advanced)

Darth Maul - Makashi (advanced), Soresu (advanced), Ataru (advanced), Niman/Jar'Kai (mastered), Juyo (mastered), Sith Fast style (mastered)

Anakin Skywalker - Ataru (adept), Shien/Djem So (mastered), Jar'Kai (advanced)

Savage Opress - Lus-ma (advanced), Shien/Djem So (advanced), Niman (adept), Juyo (adept)

Force Powers

Obi-Wan Kenobi - Mind trick, Force persuasion, Dominate Mind, Telekinesis, Speed, Saber Throw, Animal friendship, Force deflection, Force crush, Tutaminis

Darth Maul - Telekinesis, Force grip, Force choke, Mechu-deru, Force scream, Force persuasion, Dathomirian Rage, Saber Throw, Speed, Force deflection, Force lightning

Anakin Skywalker - Force Jump, Force Push, Jedi Mind Trick, Force Choke, Force speed, Force vision, Force sense, Force barrier, Animal friendship, Saber Throw, Kitenite

Savage Opress - Telekinesis, Force Push, Force absorb, Force Pulse, Force Choke, Farsight, Saber Throw, Force Cloak, Force deflect, Dathomirian Rage, Force Rage

Bonuses

Obi-Wan Kenobi - Deep Focus

Darth Maul - Bloodlusted + Rageful

Anakin Skywalker - Zone

Savage Opress - Zone + Pain-fuel

Skywalker solos

lol

lol

Annie solos the Sith, then beats Kenobi like a red headed step child.

Anakin stomps with ease.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Anakin stomps with ease.

Don't take it to far.

Think it's taking it a bit far saying Skywalker would solo. He would destroy either Zabrak 1 on 1. But soloing both for a majority? Doubt it.

Skywalker and Kenobi however beat the Zabrak duo every time.

It's Zone Anakin though.

It's Zone Savage though.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It's Zone Anakin though.

Ah right. Didn't see that.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It's Zone Anakin though. Then he tools the duo, adding Obi-Wan makes it even worse.

Lol Zone Anakin? He stomps

Originally posted by NTJack0
Then he tools the duo, adding Obi-Wan makes it even worse.
Regular Anakin is not soloing. Also this might be an appropriate time for me to concede two things.

a) Anakin would lose to the B-team
b) Dooku is a master of numerous forms.

Originally posted by Intrepid37


a) Anakin would lose to the B-team



Nah, if Kenobi can engage Maul and Opress together, and Ventress can engage Skywalker and Kenobi together, then I see no reason why Skywalker can't defeat the B-team.

Regular Anakin would lose. 3 good opponents is too much.

Yeah I recently gained a lot of respect for the Council members. Anakin could beat two depending on who they are but definitely not three. Not to derail this thread with that though.

Though for the record, this:

"I tend to be a bit reaching when I refer to that term, but honestly neither Bane nor Zannah can even win 1/10 against Fisto and Koon by virtue of dueling alone."

Is laughable.

Lol^ I was actually exhaustively defending Bane in that thread.

I know, I was deeply touched.

And so was your opponent. VERY touched in the head.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nah, if Kenobi can engage Maul and Opress together, and Ventress can engage Skywalker and Kenobi together, then I see no reason why Skywalker can't defeat the B-team.
Also this is circular logic. If Ventress can engage Skywalker and Kenobi together, then why can't three Jedi who together are vastly better than her not beat Skywalker alone?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Also this is circular logic. If Ventress can engage Skywalker and Kenobi together, then why can't three Jedi who together are vastly better than her not beat Skywalker alone?

On the other hand if Kenobi can stalemate Opress and Maul, why can't Skywalker beat 3 Jedi who are clearly inferior to that duo?

Point being Skywalker even on a consistent basis is a match for Count Dooku, so way above any of these guys, and TCW has shown us numerous times how a single combatant can engage several, even if he/she is not vastly above each individual opponent.

He can't. Confirmed in one of the TCW comics that he'd been murdered in the fight where Maul returns had he not received help from Ventress.

Nah. Tyranus is capable of stomping them individually because of his vast superior Force powers, but he can't stomp them on pure skill alone.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He can't. Confirmed in one of the TCW comics that he'd been murdered in the fight where Maul returns had he not received help from Ventress.

Nah. Tyranus is capable of stomping them individually because of his vast superior Force powers, but he can't stomp them on pure skill alone.

Kenobi wasn't in his best psychological condition in his first fight with Maul. Dave Filoni confirms this as the reason he lost last time.

And Maul was?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
And Maul was?

Considering Filoni didn't mention it in better shape than Kenobi.

I have before posted quotes/scans from an Insider issue where some of the producers said that Maul was out of his place and he couldn't fight the same way as he did because of the legs.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I have before posted quotes/scans from an Insider issue where some of the producers said that Maul was out of his place and he couldn't fight the same way as he did because of the legs.

Okay. Producers only provide the money for the show. The director's opinion is second only to GL's.

It was Maul's voice actor iirc

Also Filoni said that ''Maul did really well to come back and beat Kenobi after so many years of absence'' <- paraphrased, but suggests it was a fair fight.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It was Maul's voice actor iirc

That detracts from your point even more. Maul's VA tried to say that their second battle was a draw. Filoni flat out denied what he said as false.



No it doesn't. Kenobi just got tortured, and had to deal with the psychological trauma of seeing the man who killed his father figure again. And then worst of all, have that experience brought up by him.

Filoni even says in the last battle he wasn't focused. When Kenobi is focused he does better against Maul, Adi Gallia's death focuses him even more and then he defeats the Maul bros.

And Maul just came back from being dead, met his brother for the first time in decades, gained new legs, had no idea where his place was, etc.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
And Maul just came back from being dead, met his brother for the first time in decades, gained new legs, had no idea where his place was, etc.

Uh he wasn't dead. And Kenobi wasn't using that against him. Point is the director of the show felt that he was disadvantaged. If he didn't think that he wouldn't have brought it up.

Just like he wouldn't have brought up that Maul did really well after being out of a decade.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Just like he wouldn't have brought up that Maul did really well after being out of a decade.

Not denying that Maul did really well and that he wasn't disadvantaged. He was more physically disadvantaged, Kenobi was more mentally.

Well Kenobi had been beaten up and tortured before hand.

I would say it the other way actually. Maul was more mentally damages, Obi-Wan was physically.

I dunno about that. Maul had to fight on new legs.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Considering Filoni didn't mention it in better shape than Kenobi.

Filoni did mention that Maul was no where close to being in form after being out of action for 10+ years, and so did really well to beat Obi-Wan- End of season 4 IGN interview.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Filoni did mention that Maul was no where close to being in form after being out of action for 10+ years, and so did really well to beat Obi-Wan- End of season 4 IGN interview.

Fair point. But that has more to do with his physical shape than his mental condition. He's a Sith, if anything most of the time being ****ed up mentally improves his fighting.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
When Kenobi is focused he does better against Maul, Adi Gallia's death focuses him even more and then he defeats the Maul bros.

He didn't defeat them. He lost to them. Following by your own logic, Kenobi was unconscious after Maul's push, because his sabers were deactivated. Just like in Bulq's case, right?

Originally posted by Zett
He didn't defeat them. He lost to them. Following by your own logic, Kenobi was unconscious after Maul's push, because his sabers were deactivated. Just like in Bulq's case, right?


Actually Bulq's shoto was still activated. Whilst both Kenobi's Sabers were deactivated. So clearly Kenobi was worse off than Bulq.

DP, you know the quote where Filoni says that Maul is trained in every way of the Sith or something like that? I need it.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
DP, you know the quote where Filoni says that Maul is trained in every way of the Sith or something like that? I need it.


It was the end of season 4 Forcecast interview. Will have to find it, but you know where to look now too

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Actually Bulq's shoto was still activated. Whilst both Kenobi's Sabers were deactivated. So clearly Kenobi was worse off than Bulq.

Yeah, I think the same. Despite that I doubt, that Bulq was unconscious after Windu's push.

Originally posted by Zett
He didn't defeat them. He lost to them. Following by your own logic, Kenobi was unconscious after Maul's push, because his sabers were deactivated. Just like in Bulq's case, right?

You clearly didn't even read my post. If you did you'd realize it wasn't just his sabers being deactivated that suggests him being unconscious. Next time you want to serve me up a red herring you can at least cook it first.

Either way Kenobi right after Maul's Force push looked in worse shape than Bulq right after Windu's Force push.

If Bulq was unconscious then he got up after 10 seconds since Mace's fight with Ventress was very short. Pretty sure unconsciousness lasts longer than that.

The kind people recover from rarely lasts thatvery long.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
If Bulq was unconscious then he got up after 10 seconds since Mace's fight with Ventress was very short. Pretty sure unconsciousness lasts longer than that.

Have you ever seen a professional fight? People get knocked out for thirty-forty five seconds all the damned time. I got disproved when I said Kenobi wasn't knocked unconscious against Ventress in that 2v1 with Skywalker.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Either way Kenobi right after Maul's Force push looked in worse shape than Bulq right after Windu's Force push.

No, not really considering Kenobi got right back up and pursued them. Pile that on with Filoni flat out saying Kenobi won and I'll just accept that concession of yours.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
People get knocked out for thirty-forty five seconds all the damned time.
That's nice, but the time from where he could have been rendered unconscious to when he got up was less than ten.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I got disproved
Very well.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
That's nice, but the time from where he could have been rendered unconscious to when he got up was less than ten.


Yeah do you have proof the Windu-Ventress fight was 10 seconds. Because the comic book fights that look 10 seconds are often 30-45 which is supposedly the average duration of a saber duel.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yeah do you have proof the Windu-Ventress fight was 10 seconds.

Dooku's fight with Yoda lasted roughly 30 seconds. According to yourself, Mace's fight with Ventress was quite a bit shorter.



For that matter...

Originally posted by Lord Stark




No, not really considering Kenobi got right back up and pursued them. Pile that on with Filoni flat out saying Kenobi won and I'll just accept that concession of yours.


Wait wait wait.

I didn't say Kenobi didn't win.

I said going by your theory on the "deactivated Sabers", and by the look of them, Kenobi was definitely in worse shape than Bulq was.

Also if Kenobi got "right back up" then he would have caught up with the brothers easily, considering they took time to talk to Hondo and crewe and got into a fight with them first.

It was a very similar situation to the Mace/Bulq one, where Mace got into a short fight first but by the time Bulq reached him he was escaping.

Also Kenobi defeating the brothers was based on the general situation. Kenobi chopping Opress's arm, then Maul having to retreat to save his brother and because his whole plan was failing. It has no reflection Maul's force push on Kenobi which was clearly much bigger and more effective than any hit Kenobi landed on Maul.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Wait wait wait.

I didn't say Kenobi didn't win.

No you are trying to be a smart ass.



Again if you read the entirety of my post instead of revolving around one sentence like a prick you'd know that my argument is not simply "deactivated sabers=unconscious."



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE_CVWMWK74

5:02

Bro are you serious he gets up immediately, he can't catch up with them easily because of the massive pile of rubble that fell in between the two of them.



No. Not really. Bulq didn't inflict any harm on Windu. Where as Windu just broke Savage's leg and cut off his arm. Kenobi is specifically shown waking up, immediately. There is a ton of rubble blocking his immediate pursuit. It isn't imperative to Kenobi's mission that the Maul brothers die.

Bulq's entire mission was kill Mace Windu so he can continue acting as an internal agent. Failing that is a pretty big detriment to the war effort.



Nope we're not getting into this again.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No you are trying to be a smart ass.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy and inconsistency in your argument.



Originally posted by Lord Stark
Again if you read the entirety of my post instead of revolving around one sentence like a prick you'd know that my argument is not simply "deactivated sabers=unconscious."

Well you shouldn't have been a dumb shit then and said that "Bulq was clearly unconcious because one of his Sabers were deactivated" Lol


Originally posted by Lord Stark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE_CVWMWK74

5:02

Bro are you serious he gets up immediately, he can't catch up with them easily because of the massive pile of rubble that fell in between the two of them.

Are you f***ing blind? He gets force slammed at 4:50. At 5:02 he still not up, in fact he's grunting and rubbing his head. It's 5:05 he gets up at. That's 15 seconds after he was force slammed. That's 15 seconds of being helpless and weaponless, so he's damn lucky there was rubble separating him and Maul.




Originally posted by Lord Stark
No. Not really. Bulq didn't inflict any harm on Windu.

And neither did Kenobi inflict any harm on Maul.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Where as Windu just broke Savage's leg and cut off his arm.

Nothing to do with Maul.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It isn't imperative to Kenobi's mission that the Maul brothers die.

Urm, he was clearly out to Avenge Adi. It was actually the Zabrak brothers not trying to kill Kenobi, but capture him so they could torture him.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
Bulq's entire mission was kill Mace Windu so he can continue acting as an internal agent. Failing that is a pretty big detriment to the war effort.

You don't have to convince me that Bulq failed to subdue Windu.

I'm just pointing out the clear hypocrisy in your arguments.



Originally posted by Lord Stark
Nope we're not getting into this again.

Yeah you just keep wanking over Kenobi "defeating" Maul, when Maul's the one who landed the most lethal blows on Kenobi.

If you won't see what's clearly on screen, then just admit your being blatantly biased.

You have indeed grown powerful, DP. Finish him.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
DP, you know the quote where Filoni says that Maul is trained in every way of the Sith or something like that? I need it.


http://www.forcecast.net/story/forcecast/Weekly_ForceCast_May_4_2012_145329.asp

The Maul part starts at
1:25:40

It's not exactly how I remember it. He doesn't say "all the ways of the sith", but "all sorts of sith ways."

"He's a super dangerous threat" at 1:25:40 & "He's well trained in all sorts of Sith ways" at around 1:26:00

Not bad, thanks.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I was pointing out the hypocrisy and inconsistency in your argument.

You didn't point out shit. All you did was use a strawman.





1. That's a strawman.
2. If you are going to insult my intellect at least learn to spell "unconscious".
3. Again that wasn't the whole argument.



Lol that was a scene change. It happened at the same time as Maul helping Savage up.







Irrelevant when he overpowered him in a saberlock with one arm.




Lol Jedi do not seek to avenge. Let alone a member of the Jedi Council at the height of his focus.




Rather badly. You are intentionally using a strawman in a poor attempt to make my argument seem weaker than it actually is. My argument was not just "lul his saberz were deactivatd so dats y he's unconcious." The sabers deactivating was PART of a PART of my argument.

Not to mention they're completely different mediums. Considering literally a page before they showed Mace with his saber active resisting the force push is telling.






What part of I'm not going to debate this fight don't you understand? Its been talked about to death.

A few pages prior to Mace's duel with Bulq, Quin spars with Mace; he gets pushed, his shoto deactivates, but he was not rendered unconscious.

I think that sums it up.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
A few pages prior to Mace's duel with Bulq, Quin spars with Mace; he gets pushed, his shoto deactivates, but he was not rendered unconscious.

I think that sums it up.

Strawman.

Indeed, except it's not. haermm

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Indeed, except it's not. haermm

Yeah it is. But hey considering you didn't know what conjecture was you probably don't even know what a strawman is.

Yeah, sure thing. Vos was never rendered unconscious, but Bulq was because you say so? Not how it works.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yeah, sure thing.
So...you don't know what a strawman is?




1. They were sparring.
2. You need to post scans since we clearly have a different interpretation of battles than I do.
3. You've failed to address the rest of my argument. Instead your rebuttals have been stringent on this strawman.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So...you don't know what a strawman is?
Given that I wrote ''sure thing'', I thought it'd be easy to acknowledge the sarcasm.

Nice strawman though.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Given that I wrote ''sure thing'', I thought it'd be easy to acknowledge the sarcasm.

Nice strawman though.

>Claims to know what a strawman is.
>Misuses strawman.

You're grasping at straws, bro. Provide absolute proof that Bulq was unconscious in your next post, or don't post at all, and it will be considered an automatic concession on your part.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You're grasping at straws, bro. Provide absolute proof that Bulq was unconscious in your next post, or don't post at all, and it will be considered an automatic concession on your part.

Lol. I'm grasping at straws? And I have to provide absolute proof? Well I'm not going to pull a quote out of my ass that says he was KO'd. But simple common sense and deductive reasoning says that he was. Not that it matters this entire Sora Bulq debate is a giant red herring. The real argument we were having was that Mace can compete with Sidious. In which case I did provide you absolute proof in the form of GL's quote. Absolute proof that you continue to ignore.
So do not behave as if getting you to close that HPV infected oraphis you call a mouth is so easy.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Well I'm not going to pull a quote out of my ass that says he was KO'd.



Your concession is accepted, your double standards exposed, your argument destroyed, and your head cut off (get it?)

Oh, and for the record:

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/LIGHTSABER%20DUELS/Mace%20Windu%20vs%20Quinlan%20Vos/MacevsVos4_zps392e2cc3.png
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/LIGHTSABER%20DUELS/Mace%20Windu%20vs%20Quinlan%20Vos/MacevsVos5_zpsc17d07a0.png

Originally posted by Intrepid37
-snip-

Right. Okay Intrepid. You keep using those words, I'm sure you'll grasp them eventually.

Good man.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
-snip-

The only thing I'll concede is that you're easily the worst poster on these boards. At least Legend would back up his personal biases with some semblance of an argument.

8y7LPEo8dWk&autoplay=1&playlist=8y7LPEo8dWk&loop=1

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You didn't point out shit. All you did was use a strawman.





1. That's a strawman.
2. If you are going to insult my intellect at least learn to spell "unconscious".
3. Again that wasn't the whole argument.


Blah Blah



Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol that was a scene change. It happened at the same time as Maul helping Savage up.


LOL And then you have the nerve to throw "strawman" at me.






Originally posted by Lord Stark
Irrelevant when he overpowered him in a saberlock with one arm.

What? He never overpowered him. He blocked him with one arm for a couple of seconds before he ducked out of the way.

Jeez talk about wanking all over Kenobi.

If he was that much better than Maul then I wonder why he didn't just overpower him with one arm in their previous fight in the same damn episode, in which he fought him for over a minute without managing to overpower him LOL





Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol Jedi do not seek to avenge. Let alone a member of the Jedi Council at the height of his focus.

Guess you missed out the parts of Dave Filoni's comments you didn't like then.




Originally posted by Lord Stark
Rather badly. You are intentionally using a strawman in a poor attempt to make my argument seem weaker than it actually is.

Well it is a pretty stupid argument.

Do you have any idea how many times people in Star Wars have had their Lightsabers deactivated without being rendered UNCONSCIOUS?


Originally posted by Lord Stark
My argument was not just "lul his saberz were deactivatd so dats y he's unconcious." The sabers deactivating was PART of a PART of my argument.

And that's the part I'm focusing on, because it's stupid as hell.

Especially when Bulq's Shoto was in fact still active.



Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not to mention they're completely different mediums. Considering literally a page before they showed Mace with his saber active resisting the force push is telling.

Jeez you do talk a lot of shit don't you?

Different medium means it happened the way you want Lol

And the camera changing to the other combatant in the fight means it happened in the time frame you want as well Lol

Well Intrepid has gone and proven you wrong with the "different meduims" BS, by pointing out Vos was also forced to deactivate his Saber without being rendered UNCONSCIOUS, in the same damn comic. I mean jeez can you not see yourself how much BS your coming out with? Or is it just intentional trolling at this point?

And also, when a scene changes you have no idea how much time has passed in between. There's absolutely no reason to think Kenobi got up again immediately, or that the time frames were mixed there.

Fact is Kenobi was completely floored, completely disarmed and even shown rubbing his head in pain. What blow in the whole episode did Kenobi land on Maul which was that effective?

Oh yeah, right, there was none.







Originally posted by Lord Stark
What part of I'm not going to debate this fight don't you understand? Its been talked about to death.


You've talked shit about it to the death.

You can say Kenobi fought off both brothers, because he did. And you can even say Kenobi won the encounter because Maul chose to flee with his injured brother.

But what you can't say is Kenobi defeated Maul in direct combat. Because he simply hasn't done that yet.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
-snip-

I am not saying that Bulq was unconscious because of his sabers being deactivated. I am saying Bulq was unconscious because he didn't pursue Windu when he just earlier stated he was going to kill him. I am saying Bulq was unconscious because his plan hinged on killing Mace Windu and letting Ventress kill the rest. By letting Windu go on to force Ventress into retreat the plan is ruined. And we all know how Sith Masters feel about failure. When I brought this up with Intrepid all he did was throw a bunch of red herrings in my face rather than tell me how the hell Bulq logically wouldn't pursue Windu.

The icing on the figurative cake is that the art seems to suggest that Bulq was unconscious as well.

So yes focusing on debating whether or not a deactivated shoto means he was KO'd or not is a textbook example of a straw man fallacy.

Also as for the Kenobi vs. Maul and Oppress debate, if you'd take your head out of your ass and stop attacking me on every front. You'd realize I agree with you. I am saying I don't want to discuss that fight because it has been talked about to death and no new points are going to be brought up. It serves only to create pages of useless malarkey.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I am saying Bulq was unconscious because he didn't pursue Windu when he just earlier stated he was going to kill him. I am saying Bulq was unconscious because his plan hinged on killing Mace Windu and letting Ventress kill the rest.
Indeed, which is why Bulq tells Mace that regardless of the victor, Mace has lost the battle. Killing Mace was a bonus; not requirement for him to succeed.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Indeed, which is why Bulq tells Mace that regardless of the victor, Mace has lost the battle. Killing Mace was a bonus; not requirement for him to succeed.

Yeah pulling his words out of context won't help you here. He said Mace had already lost the battle because Ventress was going to kill his companions. So yes...once Mace said "the real battle isn't here" Bulq should have pursued. What exactly do you think Bulq was doing while Mace dueled Ventress?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Indeed, which is why Bulq tells Mace that regardless of the victor, Mace has lost the battle.

You do know that was a taunt, don't you? Taunts should not be interpreted literally.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Killing Mace was a bonus; not requirement for him to succeed.

Uh hello, the plan was to create a rift in the Jedi by killing some of the anti-war protesters and pinning the blame on Mace. Mace had uncovered that Bulq was a traitor. Killing him so that he couldn't reveal the truth was a huge requirement for him to succeed.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Provide absolute proof that Bulq was unconscious in your next post

Again, use common sense. After Bulq got nailed with the Force push Mace was able to get to where the other Jedi were fighting Ventress, drive Ventress off, get the other Jedi to his ship (while fighting through security droids) and lift-off. By the time Bulq arrives on the scene Mace and co are on the ship and flying off to safety.

Whether he was unconscious or just stunned means zip. What matters is that he was out of action for at least a few minutes.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yeah pulling his words out of context won't help you here. He said Mace had already lost the battle because Ventress was going to kill his companions.
Yup. When he got blasted, he had no need to hurry and kill Mace, since his victory was already assured.


Originally posted by chilled monkey
Whether he was unconscious or just stunned means zip. What matters is that he was out of action for at least a few minutes.
This made me laugh. A few minutes? The average duel is not over one minute, let alone the one between Mace and Ventress.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yup. When he got blasted, he had no need to hurry and kill Mace, since his victory was already assured.

His victory clearly wasn't assured considering all the Jedi survived and he was forced into retreat.




Considering the next time we see Bulq he's watching Mace leave the planet its not a stretch to say it was a few minutes. Especially when Mace had to first get to Ventress' location.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
His victory clearly wasn't assured
According to himself, it sure was.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
he was forced into retreat.
When?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Considering the next time we see Bulq he's watching Mace leave the planet its not a stretch to say it was a few minutes. Especially when Mace had to first get to Ventress' location.


Don't come here with your double standards.



Mace and Ventress traded, what, five blows? In absolutely no logical way did it last more than 10 seconds.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yup. When he got blasted, he had no need to hurry and kill Mace, since his victory was already assured.

No it wasn't. See if Mace lived and got away he'd expose Bulq as a traitor, thus making him unable to continue as Dooku's mole. Plus Mace would reveal the real culprit thus ruining the entire plan.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
This made me laugh. A few minutes? The average duel is not over one minute, let alone the one between Mace and Ventress.

Beg your pardon but this is just sad and petty. What you're doing here is focusing on minor details to try and deflect attention to them while ignoring the focus of what's actually being said. That is frankly, a weaselly attitude and has no place in an honest debate.

But very well:

"Bulq was out of action for a few moments "

Happy now?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
According to himself, it sure was.

And according to Dooku, he (Dooku) had become more powerful than any Jedi, even Yoda.

Should we take everything Bulq says as literal or do we realise that Dark Jedi like to taunt their enemies and taunts should be taken with a grain (more like a bag) of salt?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yup. When he got blasted, he had no need to hurry and kill Mace, since his victory was already assured.

Okay then, how was this "assured victory" achieved?

Mace escaped with the other Jedi, the schism in the Jedi Order this entire plan was supposed to create was averted, Bulq was revealed as a traitor and his cover and credibility were blown to smithereens.

Where is the "assured victory" again?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
When?

When Mace got the other Jedi out of there, leaving the entire plan in tatters and all Bulq could do was go back to Dooku and report his failure.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Mace and Ventress traded, what, five blows? In absolutely no logical way did it last more than 10 seconds.

Fine, it lasted 10 seconds. That's 10 seconds, plus the time it took for Mace to get there, then for him and the others to fight their way to his ship and lift-off.

The point is this; Bulq was out of action long enough for Mace to get enough of a head start so that Bulq didn't even get there until the Jedi were flying off.

What is so hard to understand here?

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Bulq is taunting Mace to try and dishearten him by saying that the schism in the Jedi Order is going to happen. One doesn't need to be a "master of Dun Moch" to use basic psychological warfare tactics.
No, but Bulq specifically says that ''whichever of us prevail, your mission fails- and we win!'', because of what had happened with the other Jedi. Had Mace died it would've been helpful to him; but if not, he'd still have ''won'' on a greater scale.



Originally posted by chilled monkey
Firstly Mace "won" in the sense that he achieved his objective.
In that sense, yes. Conceded here.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Second, if we only look at literal interpretations, Mace did win and did prove himself superior. As I've said several times, Bulq was out of action for a short time, long enough for Mace to accomplish quite a bit. To recap:
But he didn't. He blasted Bulq, then ran away. How does that constitute a individual victory over Bulq, much less a case of superiority? Mace BFR'd Grievous in Labyrinth of Evil by exploiting the advantageous environment; not by being more skilled or the superior combatant. Further more, Bulq did the exact same thing to Mace in the middle of the fight, and any advantage, if there was one, was brief. You could argue that Mace was in a position of advantage, just like Bulq was earlier, but how the duel would have concluded is anyones guess. The fact remains that Bulq, and Ventress to an extent, contended very well with Mace, and he never beat either by being more skilled. Could he have? Sure. Is he better than both? Sure. Does it mean they can't challenge him? Not at all.