Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

So Dumbledore is dead.
Balrog just runs into Hogwarts and begins to destroy everything.
Same set up as in Harry Potter 7
Can they stop.the beast?

Originally posted by Estacado
So Dumbledore is dead.
Balrog just runs into Hogwarts and begins to destroy everything.
Same set up as in Harry Potter 7
Can they stop.the beast? Balrog gets stomped.



The Butthurt starts to emerge from third world butthole.

The entire school of students?

Harry, Ron, and Hermione?

The professors?

Whichever team, I say Balrog gets his fiery ass handed to him.

Yup.
Tbh I dont think Harry ,Ron and Hermoine would have the slightest of chance against the Balrog.
They were runing from a group of giant spiders and their offensive magic was really weak....tbh I wasnt impressed by any of the wizards offensive capabilities besides Voldemort off course but he was miles above anyone..
Also it took Gandalf days to beat the Balrog after a multiple 1000 m fall...

Snape would solo, I bet.

Originally posted by Impediment
Snape would solo, I bet.
Snape got killed by a snake....ermm
Also none of the avada cadavra crap.....that's like an I win cheat and it's not like any of the school wizards used it..

What if he apparated while casting immobulus?

Originally posted by Impediment
Snape would solo, I bet. I agree. The Balrog would be easily disposed of by any skilled Potter wizard.

I'm not the world's biggest Harry Potter fan, but Snape is, after all, the dark arts teacher, right?

He has the cunning and nerve for such a fight.

Any of the students wouldn't, IMO.

Originally posted by Estacado
Snape got killed by a snake....ermm
Also none of the avada cadavra crap.....that's like an I win cheat and it's not like any of the school wizards used it.. Context. Voldemort wounded him and then commanded Nagini to strike him.


It is like saying Wormtongue killed Saruman and ignoring why that happened. You are one of the worst debaters I have ever seen.

Easy, Quan. Let's not make statements like that. Just debate, M'kay?

Didn't Snape allow himself to be killed? I can't remember.

Originally posted by Impediment
I'm not the world's biggest Harry Potter fan, but Snape is, after all, the dark arts teacher, right?

He has the cunning and nerve for such a fight.

Any of the students wouldn't, IMO.
He would cause he killed Dumbledore but no avada cadavra for this fight.

No Avada Kedavra? Cool.

Would the Killing Curse even affect such a demon?

Originally posted by Estacado
He would cause he killed Dumbledore but no avada cadavra for this fight. Dumbledore told him to kill him. He made him agree to do it. Context.

Originally posted by Impediment
No Avada Kedavra? Cool.

Would the Killing Curse even affect such a demon?
Dont know....tbh
That spell sure feels cheap though...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dumbledore told him to kill him. He made him agree to do it. Context.
That's true but before Snape was Voldy's lackey.

Would immobulus stop Balrog?

Even if it did, what spells can KO or kill Balrog?

Originally posted by Estacado
That's true but before Snape was Voldy's lackey. Snape never served Voldemort. He just did so as a ruse and was killed by Voldemort due to him believing Snape was the rightful ruler of the wand.

Well it took a multiple kilometer fall and few days of straight off screen fighting with Gandalf then a lightning charged magic sword to the chest to defeat it.
Dont know if those spells would work cause they havent used it on anything as big as the Balrog...

So tell me, what spell that we see in the movie would defeat the Balrog?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Snape never served Voldemort. He just did so as a ruse and was killed by Voldemort due to him believing Snape was the rightful ruler of the wand.
Snape served him before he died and "ressurected" in Hp 3 he was a deatheater before...

Honestly, now that I think about it, Immobulus would, in theory, slow down the Balrog, but what would kill it?

Originally posted by NemeBro
So tell me, what spell that we see in the movie would defeat the Balrog?
quan knows...srug

Originally posted by Estacado
Snape served him before he died and "ressurected" in Hp 3 he was a deatheater before... We see in the last movie he never served him truly and was the most courageous, selfless heroes of the films.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see in the last movie he never served him truly and was the most courageous, selfless heroes of the films.
Forgot about it my bad.

Originally posted by Estacado
quan knows...srug Crucio, blasting would weaken/defeat him, ranged game which takes away from the Balrog's strengths, immobolus, bombarda maxima, etc.

Crucio can't even kill teenagers.

Show it working on something the size of a house.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Crucio can't even kill teenagers.

Show it working on something the size of a house. You don't need to kill your opponent to win. Crucio showed no limitations based on size. Lol. Balrog goes down to a simple Crucio.

Balrog most certainly will not go down to a simple Crucio. I do believe that the Balrog will eventually go down after an en masse attack from every member of the school, based on the massive shield they generated.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Balrog most certainly will not go down to a simple Crucio. I do believe that the Balrog will eventually go down after an en masse attack from every member of the school, based on the massive shield they generated. Based on what could he resist a Crucio ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what could he resist a Crucio ?
Based on what does crucio work on thirty foot tall fallen angels? Based on what would the wizards and witches of Hogwarts resort to using it?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Based on what does crucio work on thirty foot tall fallen angels? Based on what would the wizards and witches of Hogwarts resort to using it? When was he described as a fallen angel in the film ? If he shown no resistances to Crucio then you can't assume he can resist it. What did he even resist anyway ?

Most of the wizards in Hogwarts don't even know Crucio, none of them have any proficiency with it save Snape.

Crucio has only ever worked on humans you stupid pedophile.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Most of the wizards in Hogwarts don't even know Crucio, none of them have any proficiency with it save Snape.

Crucio has only ever worked on humans you stupid pedophile. It worked on a spider you idiotic fanboy. Spew some more nonsense.


You're the same dolt who claimed Gandalf's light broke bones.

Size has no bearing. Crucio works and since Balrog doesn't have any resistance feats that is all it takes.

Spider the size of a hand, not thirty feet+ tall.

There are maybe two or three Wizards in Hogwarts that we have seen use Crucio. One of them, Harry, couldn't even put down Bellatrix with it permanently.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Spider the size of a hand, not thirty feet+ tall.

There are maybe two or three Wizards in Hogwarts that we have seen use Crucio. One of them, Harry, couldn't even put down Bellatrix with it permanently. You just said it didn't work on anyone not human. I proved you wrong. Now you claim size matters despite humans being a considerable size bigger than spiders.

All that is needed is one Crucio. That is just one of many ways to crush the Balrog. The Balrog is effective in Lotr not Potterverse a world of wizards.

I call bullshit on crucio.

Balrog is a demon of fire. I'm sure it can withstand a torture spell.

Size matters not.

Crucio Godzilla. Yeah, it won't work.

Originally posted by Impediment
I call bullshit on crucio.

Balrog is a demon of fire. I'm sure it can withstand a torture spell.

Size matters not.

Crucio Godzilla. Yeah, it won't work. Why would size matter. You'd need to first prove it. Balrog can experience pain as we see him scream out with Gandalf strikes him.


Crucio works on the Balrog or Godzilla all the same.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You just said it didn't work on anyone not human.

Point out where I said that pedo.



"I can pick up a person. I can pick up a spider, which is not the same size as a human. A semi-truck is also not the same size as a human. Therefore, I can pick up semi-trucks".



Hogwarts might win. It won't win with Crucio. It helps that, in-character, it won't work.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Most of the wizards in Hogwarts don't even know Crucio, none of them have any proficiency with it save Snape.

Crucio has only ever worked on humans you stupid pedophile. Originally posted by NemeBro
Point out where I said that pedo.



"I can pick up a person. I can pick up a spider, which is not the same size as a human. A semi-truck is also not the same size as a human. Therefore, I can pick up semi-trucks".



Hogwarts might win. It won't win with Crucio. It helps that, in-character, it won't work. Wow, that was hard. Scroll up next time, loser.

This is a magical spell which has nothing to do with picking objects up. This is hands down one of the worst analogies I have ever heard. Thats what happens when you roll around from thread to thread saying, do you even lift ?

No, they win in a variety of ways. Crucio is shown to be effective and you have no proof the Balrog can resist.

Crucio seemingly works on living things. The Balrog is not living in the same sense, it's made of rock, fire and shadow. Of all the spells here, to cling and cry about "crucio" is going full blown retarded.

It still likely goes down to repeated blast though, since there's shitloads of wizards. The carnage it work wreck would be high though.

Originally posted by Robtard
Crucio seemingly works on living things. The Balrog is not living in the same sense, it's made of rock, fire and shadow. Of all the spells here, to cling and cry about "crucio" is going full blown retarded.

It still likely goes down to repeated blast though, since there's shitloads of wizards. The carnage it work wreck would be high though. The Balrog was living and was killed by Gandalf. He also experienced pain when stabbed. Living and can experience pain looks like Crucio will work.

Simply assuming that the Hogwartz-wizards' spells won't work on the Balrog is quite unfair methinks. We have no proof that the spells won't work on the Balrog.

Crucio looks like it works on anything that feels pain. Imperius looks like it works on any living thing smart enough. Avada Kadavra seems to work on living things.

I don't see why they won't work on the Balrog. Granted, the Balrog will probably have a high degree of resistance, but until I see concrete evidence that it's actually immune, then the win goes to Hogwartz.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wow, that was hard. Scroll up next time, loser.

Humans are the upper limit we've seen, I never meant that they couldn't work on something less than, like a tiny spider, pedophile.



You're a moron. I don't need to say anything else to rebut your point, because it was awful.



No Hogwarts wizard has the mindset to use Crucio under normal circumstances dumb animal.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Simply assuming that the Hogwartz-wizards' spells won't work on the Balrog is quite unfair methinks. We have no proof that the spells won't work on the Balrog.
Deep down they all know this to be true. That is why I enjoy these threads to see how far bias will make people go.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Simply assuming that the Hogwartz-wizards' spells won't work on the Balrog is quite unfair methinks. We have no proof that the spells won't work on the Balrog.

Crucio looks like it works on anything that feels pain. Imperius looks like it works on any living thing smart enough. Avada Kadavra seems to work on living things.

I don't see why they won't work on the Balrog. Granted, the Balrog will probably have a high degree of resistance, but until I see concrete evidence that it's actually immune, then the win goes to Hogwartz.

Hey look at that, three spells no one in Hogwarts uses under a normal mindset.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Humans are the upper limit we've seen, I never meant that they couldn't work on something less than, like a tiny spider, pedophile.



You're a moron. I don't need to say anything else to rebut your point, because it was awful.



No Hogwarts wizard has the mindset to use Crucio under normal circumstances dumb animal. This has nothing to do with power levels or durability it is a magical spell which induces immeasurable pain.


Insulting and offering no proof at all isn't debating. You said it only worked on people displaying ignorance and stupidity.


They thought Crucio to the students by the final film. Watch the movies, hillbilly. Crucio is all that is needed to stop this dumb animal.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hey look at that, three spells no one in Hogwarts uses under a normal mindset. You are back pedaling.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Balrog was living and was killed by Gandalf. He also experienced pain when stabbed. Living and can experience pain looks like Crucio will work.



Show me one example of Crucio working on something similar to a Balrog, a being made of rock, fire and shadow. Prove it.

Otherwise you're doing a no limits fallacy, "Crucio works on people and spiders, it can work on anything." Would it work on Kronos from WotT?

Originally posted by Robtard
Show me one example of Crucio working on something similar to a Balrog, a being made of rock, fire and shadow.

Otherwise you're doing a no limits fallacy, "Crucio works on people and spiders, it can work on anything." I don't have to disprove your theory you need to prove it.


A Balrog can be killed and can experience pain. The size of the person or thing is irrelevant unless you can prove it.


I proved my case. Pain and can be killed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't have to disprove your theory you need to prove it.


A Balrog can be killed and can experience pain. The size of the person or thing is irrelevant unless you can prove it.


I proved my case. Pain and can be killed.



No, you're using no limits. You're implying a spiders and people are like a Balrog, when we know spiders and people are not made up of rock, fire and shadow.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, you're using no limits. You're implying a spiders and people are like a Balrog, when we know spiders and people are not made up of rock, fire and shadow. This is a spell who says it hurts the body. The Balrog can experience pain. Unless you can show his resistance to something like this then you have to admit one simple curse defeats him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is a spell who says it hurts the body. The Balrog can experience pain.

Unless you can show his resistance to something like this then you have to admit one simple curse defeats him.




No limits still. You need to prove Crucio can work on a being like this first. A Balrog is not like a person or a spider at all.

But yeah, the Balrog seemingly has an extraordinary level of pain resistance, considering it fell that great distance and kept fighting.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This has nothing to do with power levels or durability it is a magical spell which induces immeasurable pain.

In things the size and durability of a human being.



I did not, and you're a dumb inbred ass-reaming pedophile who can fit an island (with mountain ranges) in your rectum.



The Death Eaters taught the students how to do that in the final film, it is not part of the normal curriculum.

Yet when the time came for the students to use it against the invading Death Eaters, none did.

Originally posted by Robtard
No limits still. You need to prove Crucio can work on a being like this first. A Balrog is not like a person or a spider at all.

But yeah, the Balrog seemingly has an extraordinary level of pain resistance, considering it fell that great distance and kept fighting. It is like saying fire can only kill humans since that is all it killed. You initially said he isn't alive but he clearly dies so you lied.

The Balrog is durable and only screams out in pain when things hurt him. Crucio dishes out immeasurable pain.

Originally posted by NemeBro
In things the size and durability of a human being.



I did not, and you're a dumb inbred ass-reaming pedophile who can fit an island (with mountain ranges) in your rectum.



The Death Eaters taught the students how to do that in the final film, it is not part of the normal curriculum.

Yet when the time came for the students to use it against the invading Death Eaters, none did. No, that is a false logic. It is a spell in which the size does not matter unless you can prove it since that is your claim.

Silly nerd.


Yes, this is the final film. Crucio. One spell to bring down the Balrog.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It is like saying fire can only kill humans since that is all it killed.

You initially said he isn't alive but he clearly dies so you lied.

The Balrog is durable and only screams out in pain when things hurt him. Crucio dishes out immeasurable pain.

LoL, wut?

Incorrect, what I said was: "The Balrog is not living in the same sense , it's made of rock, fire and shadow." You failed to comprehend my statement.

Again, you have nothing to show that a spell which causes sensory pain in living beings such as people and spiders would work on a being made of rock, fire and shadow. You're no limiting it up still.

No different than if someone insisted that Prof Xavier could mind-control WotT Kronos because Kronos thinks; since Xavier is seen controlling humans and mutants that think. That would be making a no limits fallacy as well.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, wut?

Incorrect, what I said was: "The Balrog is not living in the same sense , it's made of rock, fire and shadow." You failed to comprehend my statement.

Again, you have nothing to show that a spell that causes sensory pain in living beings like people and spiders would work a being made of rock, fire and shadow. You're just no limiting it up.

No different than if someone insisted that Prof Xavier could control WotT Kronos because he thinks , since Xavier is seen controlling humans and mutants that think. That would be making a no limits fallacy as well. If you can't understand a simple sentence take a few days off.


It is living and can be killed. It can experience pain and die just as humans and spiders can. You are making a claim he's resistant to this attack so prove it.

The Balrog has pain receptors and feels pain just as humans and spiders. Are you just throwing all these random maybe this or maybe that to see if this shit sticks on a wall.

That is entirely different as Xavier has been stalemated by less. You are making claims you can't prove and just throwing together random theories.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you can't understand a simple sentence take a few days off.


It is living and can be killed. It can experience pain and die just as humans and spiders can. You are making a claim he's resistant to this attack so prove it.

The Balrog has pain receptors and feels pain just as humans and spiders. Are you just throwing all these random maybe this or maybe that to see if this shit sticks on a wall.

That is entirely different as Xavier has been stalemated by less. You are making claims you can't prove and just throwing together random theories.

Seems the new year didn't go so well for you, lashing out cos someone laughs at something clowny you said.

It's seemingly alive and it can be killed or destroyed. It's also made of rock, fire and shadow and over 20 feet tall, which is nothing like people or spiders/animals.

That's a statement pulled from your rear. You have no real idea how it felt the pain of Gandalf's sword. Prove your statement with evidence.

No, it's a like analogy to show your no limits fallacy. Face it, you're busted. Balrog does likely go down here, but not in the silly fashion you imagine.

Originally posted by Robtard
Seems the new year didn't go so well for you, lashing out cos someone laughs at something clowny you said.

It's seemingly alive and it can be killed or destroyed. It's also made of rock, fire and shadow and over 20 feet tall, which is nothing like people or spiders/animals.

That's a statement pulled from your rear. You have no real idea how it felt the pain of Gandalf's sword. Prove your statement with evidence.

No, it's a like analogy to show your no limits fallacy. Face it, you're busted. Balrog does likely go down here, but not in the silly fashion you imagine.

You didn't understand it.

He was killed. He felt pain also so he clearly lived. It feels pain and can die just like spiders and humans. Humans don't have all those legs either and vast differences in biology but it worked on them as well.

He screams out in pain.


Crucio or in rage stomp being attacked in all areas as some slow acting brick.

Crucio wins. The Balrog is overrated especially when trying to take on Hogwarts.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You didn't understand it.

He was killed. He felt pain also so he clearly lived. It feels pain and can die just like spiders and humans. Humans don't have all those legs either and vast differences in biology but it worked on them as well.

He screams out in pain.


Crucio or in rage stomp being attacked in all areas as some slow acting brick.

Crucio wins. The Balrog is overrated especially when trying to take on Hogwarts.

No, Quanchi. I understood it for the nonsense distraction statement it was. We have a grasp of the limits/abilities/concept of fire. We don't for the Balrog in the same manner, since it's fictional

Amazing train of thought there, buddy. Spiders have a nervous system that is similar to people and other vertebrates, though somewhat simpler. Now prove a Balrog which is made of rock, fire and shadow has the same? Prove it.

Yet to prove Crucio would work.

Yeah, blasting it apart, as stated

Originally posted by Robtard
No, Quanchi. I understood it for the nonsense distraction statement it was. We have a grasp of the limits/abilities/concept of fire. We don't for the Balrog in the same manner, since it's fictional

Amazing train of thought. Spider's have a nervous system that is similar to people and other vertebrates, though somewhat simplier. Now prove a Balrog which is made of rock, fire and shadow has the same? We know it feels pain and can die just like the spider and the human. All of their biologists are different,


Their biologist are still different which is the point. I don't have to since the Balrog feels pain and can die just like spider and human.


Crucio.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We know it feels pain and can die just like the spider and the human. All of their biologists are different,


Their biologist are still different which is the point. I don't have to since the Balrog feels pain and can die just like spider and human.


Crucio.



So a body composed of rock, fire and shadow are similar to person's and spider's bodies. Amazing.

So you can't prove it.

Nope. As stated above. Blasting it apart would be the best bet.

Originally posted by Robtard
So a body composed of rock, fire and shadow are similar people and spiders bodies. Amazing.

So you can't prove it.

Nope. As stated above. Blasting it apart would be the best bet. When did I say that ? I said all of the biologies were different.

Your claim.

I can prove it works on those who feel pain and can die.


They can take their pick. It gets destroyed. This is a land of wizards not of orcs.

Your argument is that since a human and a spider aren't exactly identical from a biological standpoint, Crucio will then work on a Balrog because it's different as well. Which ignores the obvious that while different, a human and a spider are far more similar to each other than a fictional being made of rock, fire and shadow. Unless you imagine flames coming out of your eyes and ears as normal?

All you can do is make no limit fallacies here.

I'll take you riding my coattails now on the Balrog being blasted apart as a compliment. Thanks!

Originally posted by Robtard
Your argument is that since a human and a spider aren't exactly identical from a biological standpoint, Crucio will then work on a Balrog because it's different as well. Which ignores the obvious that while different, a human and a spider are far more similar to each other than a fictional being made of rock, fire and shadow. Unless you imagine flames coming out of your eyes and ears as normal?

All you can do is make no limit fallacies here.

I'll take you riding my coattails now on the Balrog being blasted apart as a compliment. Thanks! It does not matter as you can't prove the biological differences matter.

What I can prove is all three feel pain and can die. You can't prove anything just speculate.


I listed various spells in which can be used to defeat the Balrog but Crucio is all that is needed.


Threadstarter ruled out Ak. Even trying to take away from Potter wizards they still bury the Balrog.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It does not matter as you can't prove the biological differences matter.

What I can prove is all three feel pain and can die. You can't prove anything just speculate.

I listed various spells in which can be used to defeat the Balrog but Crucio is all that is needed.


Threadstarter ruled out Ak. Even trying to take away from Potter wizards they still bury the Balrog.

Just like someone can prove that having some manner of mind/thinking means Xavier can control them unless they're a vastly powerful telepath as well, regardless of what they are. No Limit Fallacies a plenty.

It's not for me to disprove your fallacy. It wrecks itself.

Meh, no one probably paid attention.

Originally posted by Robtard
Just like someone can prove that having some manner of mind/thinking means Xavier can control them unless they're a vastly powerful telepath as well, regardless of what they are. No Limit Fallacies a plenty.

It's not for me to disprove your fallacy. It wrecks itself.

Meh, no one probably paid attention.

Again, I just proved the Balrog has things in common with the examples. You haven't proven anything.

You then pretend it is a no limits when it is a case of no resistance showings for the Balrog.

You have no evidence at all. I do.

You're a terribly inept man.

Yep, as "common" to a person and a spider:http://imageshack.us/a/img96/7770/balrogfotr.png

I don't need to prove anything, you're the one making silly baseless claims.

Everyone laughs at you, not with

Anyhow, Balrog most likely goes down to being blasted apart. Just deal and move on. It'll be for the best.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yep, as "common" to a person and a spider:http://imageshack.us/a/img96/7770/balrogfotr.png

I don't need to prove anything, you're the one making silly baseless claims.

Everyone laughs at you, not with

Anyhow, Balrog most likely goes down to being blasted apart. Just deal and move on. It'll be for the best. They all experience pain and can die. All of their biologies are different anyways.


You said it won't work when that isn't how debates work. Crucio works on living beings who feel pain.


Do you know how debating works. Prove it won't work.

Crucio or in a handful of manners does it go down.

Is the Slytherin Basilisk alive in this scenario? Because short of that, I doubt Hogwarts has anything to overwhelm the Balrog. They could probably seal it off or put up that super-barrier shown in DH2, but I doubt that any of the teachers would be able to put it down in a direct fight.

I can't stop laughing at the ignorance in this thread.

Originally posted by quanchi112


I can't stop laughing at the ignorance in this thread.
And people cant stop laughing at you.

Originally posted by Estacado
And people cant stop laughing at you. You are the same guy who claimed Snape was a loyal Deatheater at one point. You're simple and from a village so it is to be expected.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are the same guy who claimed Snape was a loyal Deatheater at one point. You're simple and from a village so it is to be expected.
I already admited I remembered wrong.
Its still better then being the clown of every forum.

Originally posted by Estacado
I already admited I remembered wrong.
Its still better then being the clown of every forum. You embarrassed yourself and have proven to be clueless in every thread. You can't even make a legitimate argument. Not one single time.


But keep on thinking Snape was an evil Deatheater.

I'm still waiting to see how crucio can be proven to work.

Emphasis on the word "proven", and not opinionated claims.

Originally posted by Estacado
I already admited I remembered wrong.
Its still better then being the clown of every forum.


Why would you do that, As Snape was a loyal DE at first...Remember, Snape didn't switch sides until after he told Voldemort about the prophecy.

Originally posted by Impediment
I'm still waiting to see how crucio can be proven to work.

Emphasis on the word "proven", and not opinionated claims. The spell works so if you feel the spell wouldn't work on the Balrog the burden is on you.

Originally posted by Impediment
I'm still waiting to see how crucio can be proven to work.

Emphasis on the word "proven", and not opinionated claims.

I'm waiting for proof on how crucio won't work. This is like saying Legolas is immune to bullets since no elven creature have ever been shown to be harmed by bullets. This is reverse thinking. It should be, until Legolas proves he is bulletproof then he is considered vulnerable. Same with the Balrog.

Crucio is not a physical manifestation of pain or injury. It's magical and psychological. The Balrog CAN feel pain, and it has been proven to be vulnerable to magic since Gandalf did defeat it with magic. So why won't crucio work on it? Because it is made of rocks? That's some real shallow reasoning there.

Besides, it's not just crucio. Hogwartz can throw a whole lot of immobilization spells at it. And now people are going to tell me "prove that immobilization spells work". And I say, prove that immobilization spells don't work.

Frothbyte gets it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm waiting for proof on how crucio won't work. This is like saying Legolas is immune to bullets since no elven creature have ever been shown to be harmed by bullets. This is reverse thinking. It should be, until Legolas proves he is bulletproof then he is considered vulnerable. Same with the Balrog.

Crucio is not a physical manifestation of pain or injury. It's magical and psychological. The Balrog CAN feel pain, and it has been proven to be vulnerable to magic since Gandalf did defeat it with magic. So why won't crucio work on it? Because it is made of rocks? That's some real shallow reasoning there.

Besides, it's not just crucio. Hogwartz can throw a whole lot of immobilization spells at it. And now people are going to tell me "prove that immobilization spells work". And I say, prove that immobilization spells don't work. The spell won't work just based on the mechanics of it, It requires the user to want to cause pain to the victim in an almost sadistic manner, it can't be used by just anyone and that was proved in the goblet of fire when harry attempted to use it on Bellatrix. No one in Hogwarts as far as im aware has that type of mindset.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
The spell won't work just based on the mechanics of it, It requires the user to want to cause pain to the victim in an almost sadistic manner, it can't be used by just anyone and that was proved in the goblet of fire when harry attempted to use it on Bellatrix. No one in Hogwarts as far as im aware has that type of mindset. Snape. Harry was also younger and far less skilled as a wizard during OOTP than he is by the final films.

Skill can not alter how the spell works it takes a sadistic nature to use the spell. I have not seen the seventh movie was Snape present at Hogwarts?

Originally posted by thanos-prime
The spell won't work just based on the mechanics of it, It requires the user to want to cause pain to the victim in an almost sadistic manner, it can't be used by just anyone and that was proved in the goblet of fire when harry attempted to use it on Bellatrix. No one in Hogwarts as far as im aware has that type of mindset.

There's Snape. And that crazy teacher with the rotating eye.

Plus like I said, people here are behaving as if crucio and avada cadavra are the only spells the Hogwartz wizards know how to use.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Skill can not alter how the spell works it takes a sadistic nature to use the spell. I have not seen the seventh movie was Snape present at Hogwarts? Skill is wanting to implement it. I take it you agree it works though, right ?

Remind me again who used crucio on the spiders?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Remind me again who used crucio on the spiders? The moody imposter.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Skill is wanting to implement it. I take it you agree it works though, right ? It doesn't matter if you want to use the spell unless you truly wish to cause the victim pain. I don't know if it would work, the spell causes great pain which might stop a wizard by messing with their mental faculties, but the Balrog is purely physical. So I think it could work on the Balrog but not sure if it could stop it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
There's Snape. And that crazy teacher with the rotating eye.

Plus like I said, people here are behaving as if crucio and avada cadavra are the only spells the Hogwartz wizards know how to use. Were they present at Hogwarts during the events of the seventh movie? Because that's the location and scenario of the thread.

It's very likely the opposite these being two of the unforgivable curses they more than likely would not use them, barring a few people.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
It doesn't matter if you want to use the spell unless you truly wish to cause the victim pain. I don't know if it would work, the spell causes great pain which might stop a wizard by messing with their mental faculties, but the Balrog is purely physical. So I think it could work on the Balrog but not sure if it could stop it. The Balrog would be down and at the mercy of the spell. There is no reason why it wouldn't work. You need to prove why the Balrog can resist it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Balrog would be down and at the mercy of the spell. There is no reason why it wouldn't work. You need to prove why the Balrog can resist it. The spell works by causing pain, if you can withstand pain which given the fact that the Balrog can fall from extreme heights then fight for days I believe he can, then I think he could muscle through the pain or atleast muster the ability to attack.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
The spell works by causing pain, if you can withstand pain which given the fact that the Balrog can fall from extreme heights then fight for days I believe he can, then I think he could muscle through the pain or atleast muster the ability to attack. That wasn't constant unbearable magical pain. Balrog took damage in a fight and was defeated. Crucio is unrelenting pain caused by magic.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
The spell works by causing pain, if you can withstand pain which given the fact that the Balrog can fall from extreme heights then fight for days I believe he can, then I think he could muscle through the pain or atleast muster the ability to attack.

The Balrog is physically tough. Seemingly immune to human weapons and like you said, can survive falling from extreme heights. It still feels pain though, as Gandalf was able to hurt it.

Crucio is not physical pain though. It makes you "feel" pain. So it doesn't matter how physically tough the Balrog is, as long as it can feel pain then I don't see why it should be immune to this.

As for whether Snape or Moody was in Hogwartz in the 7th movie, I don't remember exactly, I think they were in and out throughout the movie. I'll need to wait for someone with better knowledge to confirm this for me.

Im gonna have to rewatch the series, I don't remember enough about the spell and such to really debate if it would work or not.

But that's really besides the point as I said before I don't think there's anyone in Hogwarts given the scenario with the ability to use crucio.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The Balrog is physically tough. Seemingly immune to human weapons and like you said, can survive falling from extreme heights. It still feels pain though, as Gandalf was able to hurt it.

Crucio is not physical pain though. It makes you "feel" pain. So it doesn't matter how physically tough the Balrog is, as long as it can feel pain then I don't see why it should be immune to this.

As for whether Snape or Moody was in Hogwartz in the 7th movie, I don't remember exactly, I think they were in and out throughout the movie. I'll need to wait for someone with better knowledge to confirm this for me. I wasn't debating it's ability to feel pain but it's ability to endure pain which it can clearly do given it's fight with Gandalf.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
I wasn't debating it's ability to feel pain but it's ability to endure pain which it can clearly do given it's fight with Gandalf. It isn't the same thing as unrelenting pain. If a bee stings me it hurts but the pain doesn't persist in an unrelenting fashion.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Im gonna have to rewatch the series, I don't remember enough about the spell and such to really debate if it would work or not.

But that's really besides the point as I said before I don't think there's anyone in Hogwarts given the scenario with the ability to use crucio.

It's too big an assumption to say no one in hogwartz has the ability to use crucio. Just because you're not normally in a state of mind to do cruel things doesn't mean you won't do it if your life is on the line.

I don't bite people when I get into a fist fight, but if my life depended on it then I wouldn't hesitate to bite, pull hair, or poke the eyes of my attacker.

Plus like I said, crucio is not the only spell available to the wizards. They can probably just immobilize it or something.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
I wasn't debating it's ability to feel pain but it's ability to endure pain which it can clearly do given it's fight with Gandalf.

I agree that it has shown considerable ability to withstand pain and magic, as demonstrated with his fight against Gandalf.

The principle of crucio however is that it makes you feel as much pain as you can feel. It doesn't matter how big or tough you are, you just feel as much pain as you can feel.

What should give the Balrog some advantage is that it has shown a degree of magical resistance, as it was able to combat Gandalf for so long. But it will be facing a whole school or wizards not just 1, plus they'll be inside a building that has a whole load of magic embedded into it.

I think that's just too much for the Balrog.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's too big an assumption to say no one in hogwartz has the ability to use crucio. Just because you're not normally in a state of mind to do cruel things doesn't mean you won't do it if your life is on the line.

I don't bite people when I get into a fist fight, but if my life depended on it then I wouldn't hesitate to bite, pull hair, or poke the eyes of my attacker.

Plus like I said, crucio is not the only spell available to the wizards. They can probably just immobilize it or something. Momentary anger and righteous anger dont work, you have to want to cause pain to enjoy it. Im not debating who wins infact i lean more toward hogwarts on that, im just arguing against the use of the unforgivable curses.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Momentary anger and righteous anger dont work, you have to want to cause pain to enjoy it. Im not debating who wins infact i lean more toward hogwarts on that, im just arguing against the use of the unforgivable curses. Based on what ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what ? righteous anger not working is straight from voldys mouth.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
righteous anger not working is straight from voldys mouth. Harry isn't going to be the one casting it. When done correctly it works.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Harry isn't going to be the one casting it. When done correctly it works. what is your basis for saying harry didnt do it correctly?

Originally posted by thanos-prime
what is your basis for saying harry didnt do it correctly? Voldemort's words you have to mean it Harry. You obviously have no idea what you are even talking about.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort's words you have to mean it Harry. You obviously have no idea what you are even talking about. I don't see how that refutes what I said if anything given the circumstances of the scene it proves it.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
I don't see how that refutes what I said if anything given the circumstances of the scene it proves it. Harry didn't intend that kind of harm so he didn't do the spell correctly. What don't you get ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Harry didn't mean it hence it didn't work. He didn't do it correctly. You have to mean it. Plain English ftw. so your just going to ignore the context and the quote. whelp im done, I knew attempting to debate you was pointless.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
so your just going to ignore the context and the quote. whelp im done, I knew attempting to debate you was pointless. His intent wasn't there. This is the movies only, sport. Vastly different.

Leave with your tail in between your legs. Laughs.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm waiting for proof on how crucio won't work. This is like saying Legolas is immune to bullets since no elven creature have ever been shown to be harmed by bullets. This is reverse thinking. It should be, until Legolas proves he is bulletproof then he is considered vulnerable. Same with the Balrog.

Crucio is not a physical manifestation of pain or injury. It's magical and psychological. The Balrog CAN feel pain, and it has been proven to be vulnerable to magic since Gandalf did defeat it with magic. So why won't crucio work on it? Because it is made of rocks? That's some real shallow reasoning there.

Besides, it's not just crucio. Hogwartz can throw a whole lot of immobilization spells at it. And now people are going to tell me "prove that immobilization spells work". And I say, prove that immobilization spells don't work. No one in Hogwarts will willingly cast crucio under most circumstances, get off it.

Crucio has never affected anything bigger or stronger than a human being.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm waiting for proof on how crucio won't work. This is like saying Legolas is immune to bullets since no elven creature have ever been shown to be harmed by bullets. This is reverse thinking. It should be, until Legolas proves he is bulletproof then he is considered vulnerable. Same with the Balrog.

Not really a good analogy. We know elves can be hurt by arrows, blades and such, so it stands to reason a bullet would harm them.

So insisting that any and all spells would work on a Balrog who is utterly alien to the subjects some of the spells worked on is using a no limits fallacy.

ie we can conclude that those blast which made small craters in stone that the Death Eaters like to use would likely work on the Balrog, since it's a rock-like being that crumbled when it was destroyed.

Just say that they're using a No Limits Fallacy. It's easier and makes them feel less intelligent.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No one in Hogwarts will willingly cast crucio under most circumstances, get off it.

Crucio has never affected anything bigger or stronger than a human being. It has nothing to do with size or strength. It is this ridiculous video game versus mentality.

Power defeats all.

Silliness.

So you think, so you think you can tell?

Originally posted by NemeBro
So you think, so you think you can tell? You made the claim. Prove it.

Heaven from Hell? Blue skies from pain?

Originally posted by Robtard
Heaven from Hell? Blue skies from pain? Good song but it doesn't save the Balrog here.

Can you tell a green field, from a cold steel rail
A smile from a veil
Do you think you can tell?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Can you tell a green field, from a cold steel rail
A smile from a veil
Do you think you can tell? Hogwarts wins.

Did they get you to trade
You heroes for ghosts?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Did they get you to trade
You heroes for ghosts? Balrog loses.

Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze? Quit spamming and derailing these topics, kid.

Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage? Shh.

How I wish, how I wish you were here.
We're just two lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
And how we fouuuuuuuund
The same old fears.
Wish you were here.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not really a good analogy. We know elves can be hurt by arrows, blades and such, so it stands to reason a bullet would harm them.

So insisting that any and all spells would work on a Balrog who is utterly alien to the subjects some of the spells worked on is using a no limits fallacy.

ie we can conclude that those blast which made small craters in stone that the Death Eaters like to use would likely work on the Balrog, since it's a rock-like being that crumbled when it was destroyed.

It's actually a pretty good analogy. We know that the Balrog can be harmed and killed by magic. So I don't see why you suddenly think it's immune to Hogwartz' magic.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm waiting for proof on how crucio won't work. This is like saying Legolas is immune to bullets since no elven creature have ever been shown to be harmed by bullets. This is reverse thinking. It should be, until Legolas proves he is bulletproof then he is considered vulnerable. Same with the Balrog.

Crucio is not a physical manifestation of pain or injury. It's magical and psychological. The Balrog CAN feel pain, and it has been proven to be vulnerable to magic since Gandalf did defeat it with magic. So why won't crucio work on it? Because it is made of rocks? That's some real shallow reasoning there.

Besides, it's not just crucio. Hogwartz can throw a whole lot of immobilization spells at it. And now people are going to tell me "prove that immobilization spells work". And I say, prove that immobilization spells don't work.
I get where you're coming from, but you can't ask people to prove a negative. The exact mechanism behind how the curse works was never explained in the movies(nor in the books either iirc), and seeing how it was never used on anyone beyond human-level durability, I believe the opposition is validated in their question as to whether or not the curse would incapacitate the Balrog as well.

Anyways, since nobody bothered to respond to my query regarding the Basilisk, I say that with the snake they win. Without it, stalemate or the Hogwarts team bfrs it or seals it off. Apart from these few tactics, I don't see most of the Hogwarts staff actually going toe-to-toe with the thing.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Anyways, since nobody bothered to respond to my query regarding the Basilisk, I say that with the snake they win. Without it, stalemate or the Hogwarts team bfrs it or seals it off. Apart from these few tactics, I don't see most of the Hogwarts staff actually going toe-to-toe with the thing.
By movie 7 the snake was dead...

facepalm

Originally posted by Epicurus
facepalm
Yup.
Op says same set up as in movie 7.

K.

Balrog got bested by one old wizard, Hogwarts wrecks him

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's actually a pretty good analogy. We know that the Balrog can be harmed and killed by magic. So I don't see why you suddenly think it's immune to Hogwartz' magic. Exactly. They have no evidence just that it is a Balrog and lying about the spell having to do with the durability of its victim.

Originally posted by Epicurus
I get where you're coming from, but you can't ask people to prove a negative. The exact mechanism behind how the curse works was never explained in the movies(nor in the books either iirc), and seeing how it was never used on anyone beyond human-level durability, I believe the opposition is validated in their question as to whether or not the curse would incapacitate the Balrog as well.

The opposition is not valid because:

1. The Balrog was shown to be affected, hurt and eventually killed by magic

2. Crucio (and every other spell the wizards use) is magic.

To simply make an assertion that the Balrog is immune to the spell simply because "he's big and tough and scarier than humans" is irrational and derives from no concrete evidence. It would have been a somewhat valid argument if crucio has been shown not to work on someone with superior durability.

Plus, Balrog was defeated by a single mage. Here he'll be facing a whole school of them.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The opposition is not valid because:

1. The Balrog was shown to be affected, hurt and eventually killed by magic

2. Crucio (and every other spell the wizards use) is magic.

To simply make an assertion that the Balrog is immune to the spell simply because "he's big and tough and scarier than humans" is irrational and derives from no concrete evidence. It would have been a somewhat valid argument if crucio has been shown not to work on someone with superior durability.

Plus, Balrog was defeated by a single mage. Here he'll be facing a whole school of them.
No, that's a no-limits-fallacy, because we don't know for sure that HPverse magic works the same way as LoTR magic.

Actually it's not irrational at all, seeing that the curse has never been used against anything more than an organic meatbag, and the most powerful unforgivable curse(AK) is ineffective against non-living objects like metal, rocks etc.

It's just the way debating works; you never ask the opposition to prove a negative. You need to prove your claim that the spell can function against a creature with such a unique physiology like the Balrog, not the other way round.

Not to be an ass but the teachers of Hogwarts were pretty lame as far as magic goes none of them would stand a chance even against Gandalf the grey..

Weren't DE's in charge of Hogwarts in movie 7?

^Only a few. The Hogwarts staff was by and large the same old, same old.

Originally posted by Epicurus
No, that's a no-limits-fallacy, because we don't know for sure that HPverse magic works the same way as LoTR magic.

Actually it's not irrational at all, seeing that the curse has never been used against anything more than an organic meatbag, and the most powerful unforgivable curse(AK) is ineffective against non-living objects like metal, rocks etc.

It's just the way debating works; you never ask the opposition to prove a negative. You need to prove your claim that the spell can function against a creature with such a unique physiology like the Balrog, not the other way round.

Unfortunately, no-limits-fallacy works both ways. Now what you're doing is putting a no-limits-fallacy on the durability of the Balrog. So simply because it's big and tough and can survive a lot of PHYSICAL punishment basically you assume that it's immune to whatever the wizards throw at it.

So basically, I'm accused of no-limits-fallacy because I say crucio works on anyone that can feel pain unless proven otherwise. And you're doing the same no-limits-fallacy because you're saying the Balrog can withstand anything unless proven otherwise.

Besides, I'm not asking them to prove a negative. I'm asking you guys to prove that the Balrog CAN withstand crucio. That's actually a positive rather than a negative.

You're right that Potter and LOTR magic doesn't work both ways, so we also don't know that the Balrog can withstand Potterverse magic.

Besides, movie Gandalf didn't really show that much impressive magical prowess, yet he still beat the Balrog.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Unfortunately, no-limits-fallacy works both ways. Now what you're doing is putting a no-limits-fallacy on the durability of the Balrog. So simply because it's big and tough and can survive a lot of PHYSICAL punishment basically you assume that it's immune to whatever the wizards throw at it.

So basically, I'm accused of no-limits-fallacy because I say crucio works on anyone that can feel pain unless proven otherwise. And you're doing the same no-limits-fallacy because you're saying the Balrog can withstand anything unless proven otherwise.

Besides, I'm not asking them to prove a negative. I'm asking you guys to prove that the Balrog CAN withstand crucio. That's actually a positive rather than a negative.

You're right that Potter and LOTR magic doesn't work both ways, so we also don't know that the Balrog can withstand Potterverse magic.

Besides, movie Gandalf didn't really show that much impressive magical prowess, yet he still beat the Balrog.
But we don't even know if the Balrog feels pain.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Unfortunately, no-limits-fallacy works both ways. Now what you're doing is putting a no-limits-fallacy on the durability of the Balrog. So simply because it's big and tough and can survive a lot of PHYSICAL punishment basically you assume that it's immune to whatever the wizards throw at it.

No, but it is probably highly resistant to a spell that can only torture (Not kill) humans, considering it fell several kilometers while fighting Gandalf and survived just fine.



No actually, no one said that the Balrog can withstand anything unless proven otherwise, you're distorting other people's arguments to make up for your own inadequacies. What people did say is that Crucio has only been proven effective on things human size and strength or less. The Balrog is bigger, stronger, more durable, and made of different stuff than the Balrog.



I don't think you understand how burden of proof works.

You claim that Crucio can work on a thirty foot tall, considerably superhuman demon of fire and shadow.

Okay. Prove it.



Most Potterverse magic is fairly hands-on, aka physical in effect. People take being hit by spells like being hit by baseball bats.



He could send forth a shockwave that sent dozens, maybe hundreds of goblins flying off their feet.

Voldemort's shockwave could only knock down a single old man.

Where is your God now?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
But we don't even know if the Balrog feels pain.

IIRC, you can actually see it scream in pain when Gandalf hit it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, but it is probably highly resistant to a spell that can only torture (Not kill) humans, considering it fell several kilometers while fighting Gandalf and survived just fine.

So in short, you are assuming that it's resistant to a spell simply because it was resistant to physical injury. Physical is not equivalent to magical.




What people are saying is that the Balrog can somehow withstand crucio, a magical attack, despite being shown that 1.) It's vulnerable to magic and 2.) it can feel pain.





If this is how proving stuff works, then it would be stupid to have movie versus forums. Or course I can't prove that crucio works on the balrog, simply because they'e from different movies.

However, if you think that a magical attack can't harm or work on the Balrog, you also have to prove that. You forget that the Balrog was killed by a single wizard.





Hands-on? Wow, you need to rewatch the potter movies. If anything, it's the LOTR magic that's fairly hands-on, most delivering a physical, almost telekinetic like effect. The potterverse magic on the other hand is way more diverse. Where you can control minds (imperio), immobilize and stupify your opponents, change your appearance, etc.

This single statement of yours proves how little you know about the Potter movies.





You mean those goblins that dwarves were literally just pushing out of their way? Uhuh, not quite that impressive. Especially since all it did was knock them off their feet and not even knock them out. Compare that to spells that can insta-kill, Gandalf doesn't seem that impressive.

Originally posted by FrothByte
IIRC, you can actually see it scream in pain when Gandalf hit it.
I recall something similar, but then it's not evident that it's experiencing pain--it could also be surprise or alarm at suddenly getting its ass kicked.

For the record, I don't know if I'd say that the Balrog wins, in fact I think it's very likely that Hogwarts smacks him down through sheer numbers and firepower, albeit at great costs, but I don't think for a second that crucio (if it's even viable here) will be a OHKO. When used by people who aren't used to it (i.e. all of Hogwarts) it isn't powerful enough to completely incapacitate a human, yet we're to believe that it will bring a giant flame-shadow demon to its knees?

Originally posted by FrothByte
You mean those goblins that dwarves were literally just pushing out of their way? Uhuh, not quite that impressive. Especially since all it did was knock them off their feet and not even knock them out. Compare that to spells that can insta-kill, Gandalf doesn't seem that impressive.
There's no need to start downplaying, that just leads to silly arguments and ruined threads.

http://imageshack.us/a/img69/8305/zp6d.png

It knocked down shit loads and sent many flying a great distant and at considerable speed, it even tore apart part of the wooden structure (not shown in pic)which was fairly far away from ground zero of the blast.

How is this even a debate...Hogs win..

/thread