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Who would win in a battle to the death??????

Darth Vader prime (in suit)

The brothers win.

Brothers.

Vader is not beating both.

Im tempted to call it an even split, not so much because I think Vader is that much better, but the brothers weaknesses play directly to his strengths. Maul and Savage have poor fight tactics and combat effectiveness with the force from what Ive seen, both areas that Vader excels in. I could see him taking on Maul with a very patient and defensive style while knocking Savage around with random objects and direct tk like Dooku did with lightning.

Savage is only impressive in raw power and that wouldnt mean a whole lot to Vader, who probably outclasses him in physical, as well as force strength. Maul would be the problem but if Vader can batter Savage enough that he totally loses his cool (not a difficult task), he would charge into a head to head clash with Vader and find that his power strikes have little effect, and without a strength advantage he just cant compete against a more sophisticated style. Vader can swing just as hard if not harder, faster, with more precision and much better technique all while keeping a clear head. Add to that his massive experience advantage and Savage goes down hard and fast in a direct confrontation. After that Vaders tk and tactics give him good odds against Maul alone, whose bloodlust would have him open to force attacks.

I think Savage doesnt add a whole lot to this since hes not hard to provoke into making really stupid moves and without a strength advantage he has nothing to challange Vader with. Then if he gets killed it sends Maul into a rage that makes him more vulnerable to Vaders incredible skill in psychological manipulation and tactical force use. The main problem is holding out against Maul athleticism while being able to multitask with tk and get Savage worked up.

Originally posted by DecayisAwesome
Maul and Savage have poor fight tactics and combat effectiveness with the force from what Ive seen,
Tell that to Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Tell that to Obi-Wan.

I dont think I have to, it was that fight that made me think Vader has a decent shot at taking them down. Their lack of strategy and forethought is what let Kenobi defeat them even after they had him trapped in an enclosed space. They should have been able to decimate him but it was only after they failed to use their number advantage that Maul tried using tk, and even then it was very basic and he swapped straight back to blade work.

Maul is intelligent and good with organizational planning but it seems to disappear once hes in combat. He is almost exclusively a physical fighter with only very occasional attempts to use the force or his environment to his advantage. Its something hes obviously very good at but he has little ability to mix it up when that fails.

Actually, a few sources have expanded on Maul's tactical abilities.

Yeah I dont think hes stupid or anything but most things Ive read on him say he has trained his body to peak condition and prefers a purely martial victory over his opponents. Most of the fights ive seen him in are fairly true to that description and he seems to have developed his talents towards that end.

Vader on the other hand sees victory as a means to an end and takes it any way he can get it. he uses barricades, projectiles, psychological games and direct force attacks to get the job done and move on to other business. Hes much more comfortable using a far wider variety of techniques and usually knows exactly how and when to apply them.

Vader won't beat them, though. He is more powerful than either individually, but it won't help him against both.

He's significantly more powerful individually. I think it depends on how things play out- if he can isolate and get Opress fast enough, then he'll beat Maul. Trying to take them both at once is a bad game, though (even Palpatine split them up).

His powers are not nearly enough to tip the scales at all against a comparable duelist and a physical beast.

I'd give him the edge in dueling against Maul. Vader's taken down groups of Jedi masters, after all.

He was also beaten by Maul.

I don't weigh that one too heavily, as that was before there was much on Maul power, before Anakin was shown to be a real wrecking machine as the Chosen One, and before the multiple stories where Vader did better against groups of Jedi masters than Maul could hope to.

And Vader did win, he just had to take an unusual route.

Originally posted by Q99
I don't weigh that one too heavily, as that was before there was much on Maul power, before Anakin was shown to be a real wrecking machine as the Chosen One, and before the multiple stories where Vader did better against groups of Jedi masters than Maul could hope to.
Those reasons are pretty weak. The thing about Vader isn't his feats as of Purge; it's the fact that his skill significantly increased after ANH as he advanced his lightsaber technique. He is a very good swordsman in RotJ. In ANH? Not so much.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Those reasons are pretty weak. The thing about Vader isn't his feats as of Purge; it's the fact that his skill significantly increased after ANH as he advanced his lightsaber technique. He is a very good swordsman in RotJ. In ANH? Not so much.


Not just purge, there's also a book where he adjusts to the armor and has good many-against-him feats too.


There's no particular reason to think he went from great, to crappy, to great again. Don't forget, ANH is not that long after Force Unleashed and his fight with Galen.

Originally posted by Q99
Not just purge, there's also a book where he adjusts to the armor and has good many-against-him feats too.
I meant the era/timeline, not the comic.


Originally posted by Q99
There's no particular reason to think he went from great, to crappy, to great again. Don't forget, ANH is not that long after Force Unleashed and his fight with Galen.
No, he was great in ANH, and greater later on.

You just said that he wasn't a very good swordsman in ANH, only to flip-flop less than 2 hours later and say that he was great in ANH.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
You just said that he wasn't a very good swordsman in ANH, only to flip-flop less than 2 hours later and say that he was great in ANH.
Since Q99 used the word ''great'', I used it as well.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Since Q99 used the word ''great'', I used it as well.

You flip flop more than John Kerry when the Swift Boat Veterans are around.

I used ''great'' because Q99 did so, making it was easier to understand, but apparantly you were born on a highway.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I used ''great'' because Q99 did so, making it was easier to understand, but apparantly you were born on a highway.

First off if you are going to insult someone at least spell shit right in the insult.

You went from flat out saying he wasn't very good, to saying he was great. Don't get pissy with me because you didn't communicate your point across.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
First off if you are going to insult someone at least spell shit right in the insult.
You apparently understood, so I don't see the problem. Besides, as english is my second language, I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You went from flat out saying he wasn't very good, to saying he was great. Don't get pissy with me because you didn't communicate your point across.
No? For the third time, I said ''great'' because Q99 did.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You apparently understood, so I don't see the problem. Besides, as english is my second language, I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it.

It just shows you have a certain quality to your posts. I figured english was your second language. What's your primary one?



Well let me give you an English lesson.

Excellent>Great>Very Good.

So if you say in one post ANH Vader's swordsmanship is not very good. Then in another say it was great, it appears as though you are flip flopping.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It just shows you have a certain quality to your posts. I figured english was your second language. What's your primary one?
Danish.



Originally posted by Lord Stark
Well let me give you an English lesson.

Excellent>Great>Very Good.

So if you say in one post ANH Vader's swordsmanship is not very good. Then in another say it was great, it appears as though you are flip flopping.
I said, before your accusation, that it was because Q99 used the same words, so really, there were no reason for you to call me out.

Excellent>Great>Very Good>Good>Meh>Not Very Good

Would you two stop getting the rest of this thread caught up in your love affair?

Anyways, I think everyone keeps underrating the Maul brothers individually. Personally, I think either of them would put up a good fight against Vader.

Darth Maul's Section

Physical Prowess

Maul multi-tasks between lightsaber fighting and marshal arts

Maul survives a huge fall flat on his back after bearing Qui-Gon's fist to the face

Maul survives Obi-Wan's deadly Ataru maneuvers after being floored and retaliates with several razor-fast acrobatics

Maul manages to recover a portion of his skill even though he just barely recovered from clinic insanity

Maul outmaneuvers Obi-Wan's rage strikes

Maul jumps over Savage's hulking huge body, somersaults and follows that combination with a stab

Maul survives the onslaught of Embo's akk dog and then easily overpowers Sugi

Maul tanks Pre Vizsla's hand-shot and then slowly destroys him to the point of knocking one of his teeth out

Maul twists inhumanly fast in mid-air and resumes to a totally unrelated lightsaber fighting style

Maul survives another large fall

Maul lands and in a second spins with lots of speed, swinging at Sidious in the process

Maul dodges Sidious's jab, nearly floors him forcing him into the mid-air, and bounces him away with a pivoted kick, then at first summons enough strength to force Sidious onto his back foot

Lightsaber Performances

Maul uses the Sith Fast style, Niman and Juyo all with a lightsaber staff (and mostly Sith Fast style with a single blade)

Maul uses unpreserved Djem So, crude Makashi and unorthodox Sith Fast style against the masterful Obi-Wan Kenobi

Maul uses advanced Djem So and Juyo against Obi-Wan Kenobi

Maul uses Sith Fast style (mostly) with elements of Djem So and Juyo

Maul uses Sith Fast style against Sidious and Jar'Kai/Juyo incorporation against Sidious

Psychological Advantage

Maul uses one's personal haunts/issues against his opponents and can break them easily

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And these are all just cinema references anyway.