Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

What team would win in a battle to the death?

Setting: Felucia

Team 1.

Team 1.

Both teams have an equal chance of winning.

Team 1 dominates. On Felucia Dooku can quite possibly solo.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Team 1 dominates.
Not at all.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
On Felucia Dooku can quite possibly solo.
How so?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not at all.


How so?

He could TK Savage and crush him beneath a tree similar to how he TK'ed Kenobi on the Invisible Hand. The only reason his showing was so poor against Ventress and Savage was it was a close quarters environment with no room for maneuverability. The Count thrives in a place where his superior TK can shine. Not to mention the guy has a better track record for defeating multiple opponents than anyone in the mythos. Not to mention its a Dark Side nexus. On a Dark Side nexus Dooku crushed Ventress with a finger.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
He could TK Savage and crush him beneath a tree similar to how he TK'ed Kenobi on the Invisible Hand.
Unlikely, given Savage's TK feats.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
On a Dark Side nexus Dooku crushed Ventress with a finger.
Savage and especially Maul are quite a bit more powerful than Ventress.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Unlikely, given Savage's TK feats.

Savage has been shown to be susceptible to the Count's force powers.



They are all on a similar level, especially Savage and Ventress. Dooku is on another level. As I said, Dooku's only other performance on a Dark Side nexus had him wounding Yoda and crushing Ventress with a finger. Felucia is a considerable nexus, and I do believe Savage will be easily dismissed by the Count.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Savage has been shown to be susceptible to the Count's force powers.
When?



Originally posted by Lord Stark
They are all on a similar level, especially Savage and Ventress.
Hardly. Savage is a good bit more powerful than Ventress; his feats attest as much, from moving starships to obliterating several droids etc.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku is on another level.
Maul is a comparable telekinetic.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku's only other performance on a Dark Side nexus had him wounding Yoda
Which came from a distraction.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I do believe Savage will be easily dismissed by the Count.
Savage's powers would be boosted by the energies on Felucia in return.

Read Dark Rendezvous. Dooku on a Nexus made Ventress a puppy in comparison. In any case, team 2 couldn't wipe out dual bladed Obi. Team 1 is simply too much for them.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Read Dark Rendezvous.
I have. A nice read indeed.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Dooku on a Nexus made Ventress a puppy in comparison.
The brothers are vastly more powerful than Ventress on a dark side nexus. Not to mention that there's two of them.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
In any case, team 2 couldn't wipe out dual bladed Obi. Team 1 is simply too much for them.
Which owed to the circumstances and environment.

But neither destroyed him with tight coordination, overwhelming TK, or LOLlightning.

In any case, Dooku made Savage his ***** with the Force, and Maul couldn't kill Ventress before Savage was slain.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But neither destroyed him with tight coordination, overwhelming TK, or LOLlightning.
Maul nearly choked the life out of Obi-Wan in Sith Hunters, actually.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
In any case, Dooku made Savage his ***** with the Force,
With lightning, which Maul has encountered before.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
and Maul couldn't kill Ventress before Savage was slain.
When has Maul fought Ventress?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Savage has been shown to be susceptible to the Count's force powers.




Originally posted by Intrepid37
When?






Here at 00:30

http://starwars.com/explore/encyclopedia/characters/dooku/#!/media


And several times here:

http://starwars.com/explore/encyclopedia/characters/dooku/#!/media


EDIT- That didn't quite work as I planned. If you go to video/images on that link, then the first video I tried to post was the "Training Savage Opress" and the second video was supposed to be "Dooku vs his Apprentices"

Most of that is the case of lightning. We were specifically talking TK, of which I see only one instance.

On another note, I like how Dooku was floored and his shoto deactivated but he wasn't rendered unconscious.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Most of that is the case of lightning. We were specifically talking TK, of which I see only one instance.

But that one instance was a tooling. So I think that's enough. Not to mention the pillar lifting training. Whilst Opress struggled to lift 2 of those pillars, the Count lifted a Dozen or so with complete ease. So Dooku was clearly well above Opress in TK.



Originally posted by Intrepid37
On another note, I like how Dooku was floored and his shoto deactivated but he wasn't rendered unconscious.



You know he will just shout out some "Different mediums favor my argument " crap.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But that one instance was a tooling.
In Savage's first session where he hadn't yet learned how to use his strength and power properly.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Not to mention the pillar lifting training. Whilst Opress struggled to lift 2 of those pillars, the Count lifted a Dozen or so with complete ease. So Dooku was clearly well above Opress in TK.
Is Dooku a more powerful telekinetic than Opress? Sure. But he never used telekinesis on Savage or anyone roughly equal to him in power, such as Mace. Not to mention the fact that Maul is here as well; incapacitating either with TK would be almost impossible.


Originally posted by DARTH POWER


You know he will just shout out some "Different mediums favor my argument " crap.
With our combined powers, his defeat was inevitable.

Imo

Maul > Dooku
Savage > Ventress

Team 2 wins, and it's been said before that Team 2 would win. I don't know why everyone suddenly got ignorant of the decision made on such a battle, that Team 2 would lose, when it's already been decided countless times that Team 2 would win.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
Maul > Dooku

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Most of that is the case of lightning. We were specifically talking TK, of which I see only one instance.

He still has successfully TK'ed him.



First, learn what a shoto is.
Second, reported for trolling/ flamebait. That goes for both of you.

Originally posted by Intrepid37

Hardly. Savage is a good bit more powerful than Ventress; his feats attest as much, from moving starships to obliterating several droids etc.

Dooku's out of Savage's league.



Dooku can kick or force push Maul long enough to kill Savage with the force.



Tagging the most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy is impressive regardless of circumstance imo.



I'm saying Dooku's mastery of the DS allows him to utilize its power far better than Maul or Savage. Ventress went from being able to at least successfully run from the Count, to being floored with a finger. He's magnitudes more powerful than Ventress on Vjun, and he'll be magnitudes more powerful than Savage. And Maul cannot hope to defeat Dooku alone.

umad?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
umad?

10 years late to the "when trolling was cool" party.

damn straight

Originally posted by Intrepid37
damn straight

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/009/855/35xyux.jpg

Originally posted by Lord Stark
He still has successfully TK'ed him.
Just concede your unnecessary exaggeration, peep.



Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku's out of Savage's league.
In a contest of Force power? Not at all.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku can kick or force push Maul long enough to kill Savage with the force.
It's neither your job to script the fight nor is it mine.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
Tagging the most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy is impressive regardless of circumstance imo.
Indeed. Maul and Savage tagged the most powerful Sith Lord in the galaxy.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
he'll be magnitudes more powerful than Savage.
As Savage also has the benefit of the energies on Felucia, not really.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And Maul cannot hope to defeat Dooku alone.
For a majority? No. But with his brother, their victory is guaranteed.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Just concede your unnecessary exaggeration, peep.

Exaggeration of what?





Yes. Very much so.




I'm not. I am simply citing the way Dooku fights. He's very good at separating/ incapacitating individuals in 2v1 fightswith his force powers.

Dooku vs. Bulq and Tholme- Bulq KO'd
Dooku vs. Ventress and Assassins- All 3 KO'd with the force
Dooku vs. Ventress and Savage- Savage kept out of the fight with Force Lightning
Dooku vs. Kenobi and Skywalker- Skywalker superkicked out of the fight temporarily. Kenobi incapacitated.



Tagged? When did they ever injure Lord Sidious.




Raw force power does not = mastery of the Dark Side. The increase in power that people get is not equal or somehow proportionate. If it was Dooku wouldn't have been able to pwn Ventress with a finger.



Hardly. Dooku's feats are far superior to the Maul brothers as a team. On neutral ground its a far more even fight, on a nexus the Count would dominate imo.

Originally posted by XPA!
Of Savage's susceptibility to Dooku's telekinetic power.

No I am not.



You must be joking. He TKed and electrocuted three assassins including Ventress while blind and drugged. He pwned Kenobi with the utmost ease, murked Tholme, pwned Sora Bulq, brought down a massive crane.



When has Savage ever shown a resilience to lightning? And when has Maul ever shown a resilience to lightning from a Force user of Dooku's calibre?







Savage is most certainly not more powerful than Kenobi.




lol





Sure. Dooku vs. Ventress. The Count was able to TK Ventress on their fight aboard his flagship. But Ventress was still able to successfully escape via redirecting Dooku's lightsaber. On a nexus Dooku needed a finger to defeat her. If the increase was proportionate he would not be able to dismiss her in that way.




If you are talking about their duel after the 2v1, Ventress was still able to TK his lightsaber. And removing someone's lightsaber casually does not in anyway equate to killing someone with a finger.




Maul is not Dooku's rival. Maul's showings against Kenobi prove that.

Also you aren't a new member. Seems quite the coincidence a new member joins, immediately addresses my argument point by point all while Intrepid just got his Account Restricted. Reported for dupe account.

Intrepid you ****, your ban was only for a ****ing day.

Oh look another dupe. You trying to get IP banned Intrepid?
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/happytreefanon/images/f/f0/Dis_gon_b_gud.gif

Originally posted by Lord Stark

1. When has Savage ever shown a resilience to lightning? And when has Maul ever shown a resilience to lightning from a Force user of Dooku's calibre?

2. Savage is most certainly not more powerful than Kenobi.

3. Maul is not Dooku's rival. Maul's showings against Kenobi prove that.


1. TCW Season 5 deleted clip, Savage Opress and Darth Maul blocked Sidious's Force lightning, and Maul managed to Force push right through it, so Dooku's calibre is out of the question.

2. Obi-Wan focuses more on swordplay more than he does on defensive Force techniques. So, technically speaking, I'm rather certain, as I've never seen Savage in his prime get TKed easily if not at all by the likes of Sidious, that Savage Opress is can overpower Kenobi using the Force. Both of them, actually. Maul could have stabbed Kenobi in that Force grip on Ryloth but he wanted a good tasty revenge.

3. You're right. He just might surpass Dooku.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
1. TCW Season 5 deleted clip, Savage Opress and Darth Maul blocked Sidious's Force lightning, and Maul managed to Force push right through it, so Dooku's calibre is out of the question.


That'd be perfect evidence, except its n-canon.



Yes I'm not arguing that Maul isn't more powerful than Kenobi. I'm arguing about Savage. I doubt Savage can easily off Kenobi with the force.



"You have been replaced."

Lul no.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
1.That'd be perfect evidence, except its n-canon.

2. Yes I'm not arguing that Maul isn't more powerful than Kenobi. I'm arguing about Savage. I doubt Savage can easily off Kenobi with the force.

3. "You have been replaced."

Lul no.

1. It isn't non-canon, stop being ignorant. It was an uncompleted scene that fills in for what happened during the duel when Obi-Wan left Mandalore.

2. Maul can control Obi-Wan a hell lot easier than Obi-Wan can control him. Maul choked Obi-Wan with ease on Yellowblade's Landing.

3. Yes, Dooku was the replacement for Maul while Maul was caught in his clinic insanity state on Lotho Minor for 20 years. Dooku looked more normal and had more political control than Maul. Dooku had more resources as Sidious's apprentice. Maul didn't, he was a silent assassin. But Maul in combat can surpass Dooku is what I believe, though not by much.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No I am not.

You are.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You must be joking. He TKed and electrocuted three assassins including Ventress while blind and drugged. He pwned Kenobi with the utmost ease, murked Tholme, pwned Sora Bulq, brought down a massive crane.
This is one of your usual misinterpretings. He doesn't have to be Dooku's equal in telekinesis for him not to get manhandled.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
When has Savage ever shown a resilience to lightning?
In their threesome with Ventress.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And when has Maul ever shown a resilience to lightning from a Force user of Dooku's calibre?
Never, but his brother, who is less powerful, trained, knowledgeable and masterful, took several bursts.






Originally posted by Lord Stark
Savage is most certainly not more powerful than Kenobi.
I lol'd.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
Sure. Dooku vs. Ventress. The Count was able to TK Ventress on their fight aboard his flagship. But Ventress was still able to successfully escape via redirecting Dooku's lightsaber. On a nexus Dooku needed a finger to defeat her. If the increase was proportionate he would not be able to dismiss her in that way.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
If you are talking about their duel after the 2v1, Ventress was still able to TK his lightsaber. And removing someone's lightsaber casually does not in anyway equate to killing someone with a finger.
None of these prove a thing. Ventress never fought back or redirected anything on Vjun because there was no fight.



Originally posted by Lord Stark
Maul is not Dooku's rival.
Sure he is. In Sith Hunters, he nearly chokes Kenobi to death.

Originally posted by Intrepid37



Never, but his brother, who is less powerful, trained, knowledgeable and masterful, took several bursts.


But his brother is physically much stronger than Maul.



Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sure he is. In Sith Hunters, he nearly chokes Kenobi to death.


On a place strong in the dark side. If it was that easy for Maul to own Kenobi he would have done so in their one on one in "Revival".

Fact is Maul and Kenobi have been portrayed as equals no matter how much you and LordStark hate that idea.

Maul may have the edge in the Force and Kenobi may have the edge in Sabers, but overall they are pretty much equals (from what we've seen so far).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But his brother is physically much stronger than Maul.
Evidence? And what does physical strength have to do with it? Maul trained his physical attributes ''to the utmost''.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
On a place strong in the dark side.
Yet only released him after flying away a long distance.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Fact is Maul and Kenobi have been portrayed as equals
They have been portrayed as peers as duelists, yes. But you ignore the circumstances surrounding their duels. In the first one, both were battered either physically or mentally, and Maul won that fight. In their second duel, they fought as equals for a minute or so, but this was while Maul had in mind to keep Kenobi alive, so I fail to see how that does not prove him at least an equal swordsman if not a somewhat more skilled one. The only time when Kenobi ever had the edge was when he fought Maul and Savage in a cave that, because of their size, restricted their movement abilities, and even then, he never got a hit on Maul either, only on Savage, and again, the brothers never intended to kill him; only to capture him. Not to mention, Maul has a very distinct advantage in sheer power, {which he has used several times}, has more technique, has similar physical abilities, is similarly a good tactician, has shown himself as more knowledgeable with respect to arcane powers, is more resistent to pain, etc.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Evidence? And what does physical strength have to do with it? Maul trained his physical attributes ''to the utmost''.

Are you kidding?

Opress was punching cracks and holes in stone even before his nightsister amp. His nightsister amp amped him physically by around 10 times.

There's just no way Maul is physically as strong as Opress.



Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yet only released him after flying away a long distance.


Yeah but even before the ship took off Kenobi was floored and clearly too weak to do anything about it.


Originally posted by Intrepid37
They have been portrayed as peers as duelists, yes. But you ignore the circumstances surrounding their duels. In the first one, both were battered either physically or mentally, and Maul won that fight. In their second duel, they fought as equals for a minute or so, but this was while Maul had in mind to keep Kenobi alive, so I fail to see how that does not prove him at least an equal swordsman if not a somewhat more skilled one. The only time when Kenobi ever had the edge was when he fought Maul and Savage in a cave that, because of their size, restricted their movement abilities, and even then, he never got a hit on Maul either, only on Savage, and again, the brothers never intended to kill him; only to capture him. Not to mention, Maul has a very distinct advantage in sheer power, {which he has used several times}, has more technique, has similar physical abilities, is similarly a good tactician, has shown himself as more knowledgeable with respect to arcane powers, is more resistent to pain, etc.

The first fight shouldn't really count because there were just too many wild factors involved.

The second fight (which I consider the best one in terms of judging their prowess) was the most even. Maul may have wanted Kenobi alive, but that doesn't stop him chopping off some limbs, so I would question how much he needed to hold back there (if at all). And let's not forget that fight ended with Kenobi landing a successful kick on Maul.

Overall I'd say that one showed them being pretty equal.

Then the last one where you agree Kenobi was winning, was supposed to be a peak performance by Kenobi. Kenobi did continuously land hits in on Maul, just not any "lethal" hits. And that's the only time Maul was chucking him around with the Force, but you have to factor Kenobi growing tired from battling both brothers there.

So like I said overall they have been portrayed as equals, but with Maul having greater force feats (pulling the ship off the cliff) and with Kenobi seeming to have an edge in Sabers.

I don't really see Kenobi having any edge in sabers.

And lol (really - I actually laughed) at Taay'hai indicating that Maul is = to Dooku. Dooku's trashing of Kenobi... twice... the second time with the Force, would strongly indicate otherwise.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Are you kidding?
No.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Opress was punching cracks and holes in stone even before his nightsister amp.
Indeed?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
His nightsister amp amped him physically by around 10 times.
Evidence?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
There's just no way Maul is physically as strong as Opress.
His physical showings indicates otherwise.

Regardless,




Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah but even before the ship took off Kenobi was floored and clearly too weak to do anything about it.
Evidence?




Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The first fight shouldn't really count because there were just too many wild factors involved.
I'm not sure who you are to choose what counts and what does not; saying that there were ''too many wild factors involved'' is not a satisfying answer.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Maul may have wanted Kenobi alive, but that doesn't stop him chopping off some limbs, so I would question how much he needed to hold back there (if at all).
No? He outright demands Obi-Wan to ''surrender!''.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/maul_zpse9f944ea.png

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Kenobi seeming to have an edge in Sabers.
Not really.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Maul may have the edge in the Force and Kenobi may have the edge in Sabers, but overall they are pretty much equals (from what we've seen so far).

Power, just so you know, I agree with this notion 100%.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Power, just so you know, I agree with this notion 100%.

Originally posted by Intrepid37



Indeed?


From his fight with Ventress before his Nightsister amp.


Originally posted by Intrepid37
Evidence?


It's in a Maul short novel. The one when Talzin tries to get a young Maul back from Sidious, and explains to him what her amp will do. I'll get the novel's name later.


Originally posted by Intrepid37
His physical showings indicates otherwise.

Maul has punched holes in stone(that before having his strength amped 10 times)? Floored someone on the level of Dooku with one swing? Battered the likes of Ventress with strength alone?


Originally posted by Intrepid37
Regardless,

Clearly his immense physical strength was keeping him alive through Dooku's FL blasts.






Originally posted by Intrepid37
Evidence?,

Will have to check the comic again later, but pretty sure Kenobi was floored and seriously struggling to breathe, hence not in any shape to fight back once Maul was flying away.





Originally posted by Intrepid37
I'm not sure who you are to choose what counts and what does not; saying that there were ''too many wild factors involved'' is not a satisfying answer.

Urmm, is Dave Filoni good enough for you? You know he outright confirms Kenobi wasn't in form for that fight due to the circumstances. He's also said something similar about Maul.

So I don't see how that fight can be used as evidence of anything. Not to mention Kenobi was winning that one anyway until he got distracted by saving Ventress.


Originally posted by Intrepid37
No? He outright demands Obi-Wan to ''surrender!''.


So?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/maul_zpse9f944ea.png





Interesting quote. What's the source?

The only times I can think where he actually had an opportunity to kill Obi-Wan was the 2 times he force slammed him. And they were both in the 2 vs 1 fight.

Which is precisely why I believe in this match Dooku could solo with difficulty. Dooku cannot dismiss Maul with the force as he did Kenobi, but he can likely trash Opress with the force on Felucia. And Maul without Savage is no match for Dooku.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Which is precisely why I believe in this match Dooku could solo with difficulty. Dooku cannot dismiss Maul with the force as he did Kenobi, but he can likely trash Opress with the force on Felucia. And Maul without Savage is no match for Dooku.



Team 1 definitely wins this match up.

Dooku can solo, but the brothers likely take a majority against him.

But adding Ventress just tips the scales too much in Dooku's favor.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
On a place strong in the dark side.


Due to the presence of two powerful dark siders: Maul and Savage. It wasn't some outside source of power.


Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If it was that easy for Maul to own Kenobi he would have done so in their one on one in "Revival".


Maul has consistently overpowered Kenobi with the force almost as easily as Dooku has. That he never finished Kenobi when he had the opportunity was the result of choice, not the inability to do so.


Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Fact is Maul and Kenobi have been portrayed as equals no matter how much you and LordStark hate that idea.


No, not really. More times than not, Maul has owned Kenobi either with the force or in a saber duel. The same can not be said about Obi Wan, as he never owned Maul on any occasion. Going by consistency, if Maul were to go all out on Kenobi, he has the power to make Kenobi a non-factor.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
I don't really see Kenobi having any edge in sabers.

And lol (really - I actually laughed) at Taay'hai indicating that Maul is = to Dooku. Dooku's trashing of Kenobi... twice... the second time with the Force, would strongly indicate otherwise.

I laugh at how you're such a self-righteous prick.

One's displays against the same opponents cannot define who has the upper hand. It depends on the kind of fighter one is, and what kind of opponent they're accustomed to facing. Besides, Maul and Dooku have both overpowered Kenobi just as easily as one another before.

For instance, unlike many other powerful Jedi Masters, Ahsoka Tano was accustomed to evading people like Grievous and tagging him when he was open with Force powers. This doesn't necessarily make Ahsoka better than any other Jedi Masters, but she's better at dealing with Grievous than they are.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Due to the presence of two powerful dark siders: Maul and Savage. It wasn't some outside source of power.



Hmm I'll have to check the comic again, but that could be a possibility. I don't think the source of the dark side was made clear though iirc.





Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Maul has consistently overpowered Kenobi with the force almost as easily as Dooku has. That he never finished Kenobi when he had the opportunity was the result of choice, not the inability to do so.


Apart from the comic where the dark side nexus is in question now, he's only ragdolled Kenobi in the 2 on 1 fight. So I don't think that's a fair assessment of Kenobi's force powers in comparison to Maul's simply because he must have been tiring from fighting both brothers simultaneously.




Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No, not really. More times than not, Maul has owned Kenobi either with the force or in a saber duel. The same can not be said about Obi Wan, as he never owned Maul on any occasion. Going by consistency, if Maul were to go all out on Kenobi, he has the power to make Kenobi a non-factor.


Again I think calling "non-factor" is going a bit overboard. Simply because their most "fair" fight IMO was their one-on-one in "Revival". They were fighting pretty equally in that fight.

And you know I like Maul so would love to believe Kenobi is a non-factor to him, but I just don't think it's been portrayed like that, especially when you factor in Dave Filoni's comments on their fights.

So anyways, Dooku solos.

/thread.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
So anyways, Dooku solos.

/thread.

NO. NO.

NO!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Taay'hai
NO. NO.

NO!!!!!!!!!!

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Troll.png

Someone who is able to beat Sith Anakin won't be a non-factor against Darth Maul. Sure there were some circumstances in the battle but Obi-Wan was able to block Anakins force push so I don't think Maul is able to own him with the force as easily as Dooku did. He may be able to take a majority against CW Obi-Wan but at the end ROTS Kenobi is probably a bit better than Maul. Still, they are equals more or less.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
I laugh at how you're such a self-righteous prick.



jawdrop

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
jawdrop

I'm sorry, that was uncalled for. But you're disregarding my theories in a rather agitating way.

I'm curious, if Dooku can indeed "solo" the brothers, why did Sidious not give him this opportunity? Why didn't he send his apprentice to deal with the brothers? The answer is because he knew Dooku would be in over his head.

"You have become a rival!"

Dooku is not stronger than Maul. They are around the same level, at best(for Dooku, that is). Maul held his own against Sidious for roughly the same amount of time Dooku did against Yoda. Except we know Sidious fights much more ferociously than Yoda.

The only real thing Dooku has over Maul is Force Lightning, but it wouldn't do him much good. Maul will effortlessly block it with his saber.

Originally posted by Unbowed
I'm curious, if Dooku can indeed "solo" the brothers, why did Sidious not give him this opportunity? Why didn't he send his apprentice to deal with the brothers? The answer is because he knew Dooku would be in over his head.

"You have become a rival!"

Dooku is not stronger than Maul. They are around the same level, at best(for Dooku, that is). Maul held his own against Sidious for roughly the same amount of time Dooku did against Yoda. Except we know Sidious fights much more ferociously than Yoda.

The only real thing Dooku has over Maul is Force Lightning, but it wouldn't do him much good. Maul will effortlessly block it with his saber.

Dooku can solo the brothers. The brothers would likely take the majority though. Also Dooku didn't get defeated by Yoda, he retreated (successfully at that) twice. Maul wasn't able to retreat because he was way more outmatched.

Also on Vjun where Dooku's powers would be enhanced he likely could kill the brothers.

Originally posted by Unbowed
I'm curious, if Dooku can indeed "solo" the brothers, why did Sidious not give him this opportunity? Why didn't he send his apprentice to deal with the brothers? The answer is because he knew Dooku would be in over his head.

"You have become a rival!"

Or because Sidious was worried of the possibility that Dooku would ally himself with Maul.

Originally posted by ares834
Or because Sidious was worried of the possibility that Dooku would ally himself with Maul.

Yeah that too. Maul and Dooku alone would be a massive threat to him, let alone Maul, Dooku, and Savage.

Originally posted by Unbowed


Dooku is not stronger than Maul. They are around the same level, at best(for Dooku, that is). Maul held his own against Sidious for roughly the same amount of time Dooku did against Yoda. Except we know Sidious fights much more ferociously than Yoda.



Nah, Maul and Kenobi are around the same level. Whilst Dooku effortlssley stomps Kenobi.

I do believe that TK attacks such as Choke and Grip are overrated.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nah, Maul and Kenobi are around the same level. Whilst Dooku effortlssley stomps Kenobi.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku can solo the brothers. The brothers would likely take the majority though. Also Dooku didn't get defeated by Yoda, he retreated (successfully at that) twice. Maul wasn't able to retreat because he was way more outmatched.
Dooku retreated succesfully, but not because of his combat skills. He retreated succesfully because Yoda cared more about saving the lives of others than taking Dooku's.

Maul wasn't able to retreat because he had no such leverage on Sidious. Dooku wouldn't be able to retreat in Maul's position either.

Also on Vjun where Dooku's powers would be enhanced he likely could kill the brothers.
The brothers are darksiders too, don't forget.

Originally posted by ares834
Or because Sidious was worried of the possibility that Dooku would ally himself with Maul.
No. Sidious is a smart man. He knew Maul, and he knew Dooku. He knew Maul would be livid at Dooku for being his replacement, and he knew Dooku would resent Maul for killing Qui-Gon. There was zero chance of them joining forces.

Originally posted by Unbowed
No. Sidious is a smart man. He knew Maul, and he knew Dooku. He knew Maul would be livid at Dooku for being his replacement, and he knew Dooku would resent Maul for killing Qui-Gon. There was zero chance of them joining forces.

Still, this is just speculation. We'll never know if he didn't send Dooku because he thought they'd overpower him or because he thought he'd ally with them. Opinions differ.

As Stark said, I also think Dooku might be able to defeat the brothers but would lose the majority. Maybe he'd win 3/10.

He probably didn't send Dooku for both those reasons. Of course the Brothers have a definite chance at defeating Dooku, so he didn't want to risk that. Plus Maul and Dooku are both Master Manipulators, so of course he didn't want them talking to each other either, since there would be a chance of them joining forces to challenge Sidious.

Just too many wild factors there. It was best for Sidious to go deal with the brothers himself.

Ajass Ventress and Maul are easily a tie but Dooku could take down animated Maul brother no problem.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
When?




Hardly. Savage is a good bit more powerful than Ventress; his feats attest as much, from moving starships to obliterating several droids etc.


Maul is a comparable telekinetic.


Which came from a distraction.


Savage's powers would be boosted by the energies on Felucia in return. you are failing to realize that mual has shown no adeptness in the force, savage has had little training and would have no chance against the count's lightening; and i would think ventress is more on mual's level(dont hold me to that though). With dooku dookue being able to handle obi and ani at the same time on multiple occasions(once while being shot at) he could 1v2 them without too much problems.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
From his fight with Ventress before his Nightsister amp.





It's in a Maul short novel. The one when Talzin tries to get a young Maul back from Sidious, and explains to him what her amp will do. I'll get the novel's name later.




Maul has punched holes in stone(that before having his strength amped 10 times)? Floored someone on the level of Dooku with one swing? Battered the likes of Ventress with strength alone?
If you think strength alone will give him the win in fencing you are a dumbass. Dooku and ventress have a very good defense based fencing style.



Clearly his immense physical strength was keeping him alive through Dooku's FL blasts.

Vader, luke, and many others have survived force lighting. When dooku was punishing savage with it he wasnt trying to kill him, much to it. so dooku shocks mual in the legs and its game over from there.






Will have to check the comic again later, but pretty sure Kenobi was floored and seriously struggling to breathe, hence not in any shape to fight back once Maul was flying away.







Urmm, is Dave Filoni good enough for you? You know he outright confirms Kenobi wasn't in form for that fight due to the circumstances. He's also said something similar about Maul.

So I don't see how that fight can be used as evidence of anything. Not to mention Kenobi was winning that one anyway until he got distracted by saving Ventress.





So?




Interesting quote. What's the source?

The only times I can think where he actually had an opportunity to kill Obi-Wan was the 2 times he force slammed him. And they were both in the 2 vs 1 fight.

Originally posted by Unbowed
I'm curious, if Dooku can indeed "solo" the brothers, why did Sidious not give him this opportunity? Why didn't he send his apprentice to deal with the brothers? The answer is because he knew Dooku would be in over his head.

"You have become a rival!"

Dooku is not stronger than Maul. They are around the same level, at best(for Dooku, that is). Maul held his own against Sidious for roughly the same amount of time Dooku did against Yoda. Except we know Sidious fights much more ferociously than Yoda.

The only real thing Dooku has over Maul is Force Lightning, but it wouldn't do him much good. Maul will effortlessly block it with his saber.
" You are no longer my apprentice....you have been REPLACED!"

If he thought those two were so powerful he woulnt have whooped their asses and killed one of them. if mual>dooku then he would have had them fight or just brushed dooku off.

Originally posted by nagasado
" You are no longer my apprentice....you have been REPLACED!"

If he thought those two were so powerful he woulnt have whooped their asses and killed one of them. if mual>dooku then he would have had them fight or just brushed dooku off.


Dooku > Maul, but Maul possibly had more potential.

And your wrong saying that he would have replaced Dooku with Maul if Maul was more powerful. As we all know he already had Skywalker in mind for Dooku's replacement, and replacing Dooku during TCW wouldn't have fit well for Sidious's plans.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Dooku > Maul, but Maul possibly had more potential.

And your wrong saying that he would have replaced Dooku with Maul if Maul was more powerful. As we all know he already had Skywalker in mind for Dooku's replacement, and replacing Dooku during TCW wouldn't have fit well for Sidious's plans. If thats the case why would it matter if he replaced dooku. Im not disputing that he was focused on anakin. Fact of the matter is mual still couldnt replace dooku becuase mual was just supposed to be used as a tool(even when plagueis was alive)

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Dooku > Maul, but Maul possibly had more potential.

And your wrong saying that he would have replaced Dooku with Maul if Maul was more powerful. As we all know he already had Skywalker in mind for Dooku's replacement, and replacing Dooku during TCW wouldn't have fit well for Sidious's plans.

I dunno if Maul had more potential. Dooku was flagged as a potential successor by Plagueis in the event Sidious ever got captured. Maul was always just a tool, and viewed as such.

Also worth pointing out that the new Clone Wars episodes have Dooku going by the name Tyranus and working with Sidious prior to TPM.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I dunno if Maul had more potential. Dooku was flagged as a potential successor by Plagueis in the event Sidious ever got captured. Maul was always just a tool, and viewed as such.
Maul's voice actor, in an interview in a Insider magazine, said that Sidious meant for Maul to be his successor.

Where did Maul's voice actor get that information from?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Maul's voice actor, in an interview in a Insider magazine, said that Sidious meant for Maul to be his successor.

Maul's VA also said Maul's last duel against Kenobi was a draw. He's pretty biased.

Also Darth Maul was 34 in TCWs. He should reasonably be in his prime.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Maul's VA also said Maul's last duel against Kenobi was a draw. He's pretty biased.


Yeah but Dave Filoni outright debunked that. Whilst he never debunked the Maul being Sidious's successor thing, which was also said right in front of Filoni.

He knows these things from extensive conversations he's had with Filoni. And Filoni knows his stuff from the extensive conversations he's had with Lucas. And it was Lucas who wanted to bring Maul back because "he was always one of my favorite characters." So I doubt one of his favorite characters was just a tool.



Originally posted by Lord Stark
Also Darth Maul was 34 in TCWs. He should reasonably be in his prime.


Well there is the small fact that Maul was out of commission for 10+ years. Besides Jedi/Sith are not in their prime at that age. Sidious is far far more powerful in his 60's than he was in his 30's.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah but Dave Filoni outright debunked that. Whilst he never debunked the Maul being Sidious's successor thing, which was also said right in front of Filoni.

He knows these things from extensive conversations he's had with Filoni. And Filoni knows his stuff from the extensive conversations he's had with Lucas. And it was Lucas who wanted to bring Maul back because "he was always one of my favorite characters." So I doubt one of his favorite characters was just a tool.

Uhhh Dooku, Maul, and Vader were all tools. Sidious, like Plagueis never intended to be succeeded.







Varies from individual to individual.

Kenobi was in his prime at 38.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Uhhh Dooku, Maul, and Vader were all tools. Sidious, like Plagueis never intended to be succeeded.


He was clearly always looking out for an apprentice who could rival or surpass himself one day. Neither Maul or Dooku were mere assassins. They were only replaced when they were either defeated or when Sidious found a potentially better replacement.




Originally posted by Lord Stark
Varies from individual to individual.

Kenobi was in his prime at 38.


That's because Kenobi went into seclusion at that age. But 38 is simply not old enough to have the decades of mastery of the force and skill that say Dooku has. Which is why Kenobi continuously gets tooled by Dooku.

Dooku was never meant to last, though.

^ But that's probably only because Sidious was eying up Skywalker.

Could also be to do with Dooku's age though.

Originally posted by Unbowed
Dooku retreated succesfully, but not because of his combat skills. He retreated succesfully because Yoda cared more about saving the lives of others than taking Dooku's.

Maul wasn't able to retreat because he had no such leverage on Sidious. Dooku wouldn't be able to retreat in Maul's position either.


The brothers are darksiders too, don't forget.


No. Sidious is a smart man. He knew Maul, and he knew Dooku. He knew Maul would be livid at Dooku for being his replacement, and he knew Dooku would resent Maul for killing Qui-Gon. There was zero chance of them joining forces.

This latter part makes sense, given that Qui-Gon's death was a catalyst for Dooku leaving the Order in the first place.

Team 1 btw.

/thread.

Yep, Team 1 without a doubt.

I'd say there very much is a doubt. Ventress can't beat Opress and the gap between her and him is about the same as there is between Dooku and Maul.

She could keep him entertained, or Dooku can multi-task and sprinkle some lightning his way. It's certainly within reasonable to assume Team 1 has the advantage. Ventress has a lot more kills under her belt than Opress by far.

He was beating her in their fight though.

He also beat Plo Koon, whom Ventress was only even with.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He was beating her in their fight though.

Obi/Ventress v. Maul/Opress.

He certainly roughed her up a bit, being superior in strength. But she's wicked agile and smarter by far, so she stays alive and can keep him at bay. Key thing is she doesn't keep herself directly in saber's length and can run like hell. In her battle with Anakin and Obi-Wan in the series, she showed the ability to use the terrain to her advantage and multi-task.

In any case, Dooku would fare better against Maul than Obi-Wan did, and Ventress doesn't need to dominate Opress for her team to win. Dooku and Ventress both have reputations for being savvy, agile, and using the Force intelligently, which is something the brothers can't lay claim to really.

Ventress v. Opress v. Dooku.

In what limited exchange they had here, Opress brute strength'd both her and Dooku several times, so his Hulk rage factor is IMO the only edge he has over her. And even then, she can dance around him quite a bit.

I also could be biased, because I think Opress is a stupid brute and Ventress is an exotic femme fatale.

Oh no trust me, I super dislike Opress looking better than her. She should dance around him and cut him to shreds. Its just kind of hard to ignore her looking like shes on the back foot constantly.

I understand. I think she should come out looking far better. In fact, I think some of the EU novels placed her much higher (Dark Rendezvous, The Cestus Deception in particular).

Honestly after seeing Dooku's last CW fight against Anakin and Obi-Wan, I'd say Dooku does have a chance of soloing. Probably nto a great chance, but I'm sure he could take 2/3 out of 10 wins on his own.

Adding Ventress who can hold off Maul for a short time, and Opress for a lot longer, gives Dooku all he needs here to win every time Imho.


Originally posted by Nephthys
He was beating her in their fight though.


She held her own though. She was certainly losing, but never actually lost.