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Who would win in a battle to the death?
Setting: Endor

This thread has been done a long time ago (from what I've seen), so I'm just going to do a more recent one.

Yoda takes this with a mild degree of difficulty.

ROTS Yoda?

Darth Vader wins.

Originally posted by Based
ROTS Yoda?
Yes.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
Darth Vader wins.

Yoda takes this with near-overwhelming force abilities and Vader gets his ass ragdolled .-.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
Darth Vader wins.

lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak9dY2c_X5Y&list=PL65563E1F241559DA&index=10

Yes, I know it's long but if you can find the time I highly recommend watching it. It's quite fascinating.

And no, I am not saying this video should be considered absolute proof or anything. I just think he makes some very good points.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak9dY2c_X5Y&list=PL65563E1F241559DA&index=10

Yes, I know it's long but if you can find the time I highly recommend watching it. It's quite fascinating.



Just after 40:00 he says "there's no way Yoda will get past Vader's defenses" and he was talking about a saber match up

This is too funny. Yoda TK Vader then cuts him to bits.

Originally posted by Lord Stark

Originally posted by chilled monkey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak9dY2c_X5Y&list=PL65563E1F241559DA&index=10

Yes, I know it's long but if you can find the time I highly recommend watching it. It's quite fascinating.

And no, I am not saying this video should be considered absolute proof or anything. I just think he makes some very good points.

Jensaarai has a strong belief that Yoda is incompetent as a duelist. Thus, I cannot take him seriously.

Would not be easy, would be a fight, but Yoda.

Yoda's agility is his strength; Vader's lack of it is his weakness. It'd be fairly easy.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yoda's agility is his strength; Vader's lack of it is his weakness. It'd be fairly easy.

This.

Yoda will batter Vader in a Saber match up.

The only place where Vader is comparable is in the TK department. But since Yoda's also a beast in that department, it will all come down to Sabers.

They are kind of incomparable in the TK department, though.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
They are kind of incomparable in the TK department, though.

Who are you saying is better with TK?

Yoda by a good margin.

Yoda would destroy Vader. As psychologically hurt Vader was during his fight against Kenobi, his inability to ultimately kill his former master is proof he wouldn't last much against Yoda, who is superior to Kenobi in absolutely every aspect of combat.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yoda's agility is his strength; Vader's lack of it is his weakness. It'd be fairly easy.

Not so much that it hinders him against agile foes. He's less acrobatic, but can still handle against speed fine.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Yoda would destroy Vader. As psychologically hurt Vader was during his fight against Kenobi, his inability to ultimately kill his former master is proof he wouldn't last much against Yoda, who is superior to Kenobi in absolutely every aspect of combat.

Yoda is superior, but I do not think "destroy quickly" level superior. Vader's force knowledge has gone up a lot since then, and he's a lot more cool headed too.

Although his Force power has indeed increased, his saber skills actually were greatly reduced after his fight with Kenobi. And even though his Force power has increased, it hasn't increased enough to threaten Yoda.

Originally posted by Q99
Not so much that it hinders him against agile foes. He's less acrobatic, but can still handle against speed fine.
He can. I have defended his speed before, after all. But Yoda is just on another level. Vader is not lasting more than 15-20 seconds.

People always seem to forget that Vader is 80% as Powerful as the Emperor. He's getting beaten here, but not stomped the way people are making out.

Also Vader's force tk feats are crazy. Definitely Sidious/Yoda level.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Also Vader's force tk feats are crazy. Definitely Sidious/Yoda level.
I lol'd. When Vader can telekinetically move 200 meter long transporters or effortlessly break through the defenses of two Force practitioners capable of manipulating nearly 20-meter long starships, then we can compare them.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I lol'd. When Vader can telekinetically move 200 meter long transporters or effortlessly break through the defenses of two Force practitioners capable of manipulating nearly 20-meter long starships, then we can compare them.

Are you kidding me? He's stalemated a guy who can move Star Destroyers and explode massive frigates.

Same guy who was ''no match'' for the Emperor?

^ That doesn't mean he wasn't even close to the Emperor. He did have Palpatine screaming in pain.

And like you always point out yourself, Vader wasn't even in his prime until ROTJ.

But we have already seen Vader's limits when he collapsed a cathedral in Darth Vader and The Lost Command which took a lot of effort on his part. Yoda's feat, while not only much greater on sheer scale, was done with less effort.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Jensaarai has a strong belief that Yoda is incompetent as a duelist. Thus, I cannot take him seriously.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
People always seem to forget that Vader is 80% as Powerful as the Emperor. He's getting beaten here, but not stomped the way people are making out.

Also Vader's force tk feats are crazy. Definitely Sidious/Yoda level.

I disagree, but even if he is on Yoda's level of TK, his great disadvantage here is his lack of speed. Since he got burned the shit out of his body by Obi, his lightsaber mastery lost significant prowess to it, and Yoda = RotS Sidious in this aspect, who in turn would handily beat RotS Vader. I think Yoda's good enough to exploit this weakness and be able to beat Vader with maybe some difficulty, but not much.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
But we have already seen Vader's limits when he collapsed a cathedral in Darth Vader and The Lost Command which took a lot of effort on his part. Yoda's feat, while not only much greater on sheer scale, was done with less effort.


Again, going by feats he's stalemated a guy who moves Star Destroyers. Heck he even managed to force choke him a few times.

He's also got different types of Insane TK feats like the Skype choke and even choking Xizor from another frigging solar system.


Originally posted by Petrus
I disagree, but even if he is on Yoda's level of TK, his great disadvantage here is his lack of speed. Since he got burned the shit out of his body by Obi, his lightsaber mastery lost significant prowess to it, and Yoda = RotS Sidious in this aspect, who in turn would handily beat RotS Vader. I think Yoda's good enough to exploit this weakness and be able to beat Vader with maybe some difficulty, but not much.


I agree he will get battered in a Saber fight. And Sabers is what it will come to in this fight.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Again, going by feats he's stalemated a guy who moves Star Destroyers.
So what? Starkiller was losing to Shaak Ti as well. Does that mean Ti's TK rivals his?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He's also got different types of Insane TK feats like the Skype choke and even choking Xizor from another frigging solar system.
We're talking about power, not range or precision.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He can. I have defended his speed before, after all. But Yoda is just on another level. Vader is not lasting more than 15-20 seconds.

Dooku was holding out against Yoda, and I think could've lasted quite awhile as long as it was sabers. Vader I also see being able to last.


Heck, Maul and Savage lasted longer than 15-20 seconds.

Originally posted by Q99
Dooku was holding out against Yoda, and I think could've lasted quite awhile as long as it was sabers. Vader I also see being able to last.
But you have to note the difference in the ways which Vader and Dooku fights. Dooku is more reliant on precision and mobility than Vader, whose core style, by default, is limited with regards to agility, not to mention that Vader's suit makes him less mobile than he already is. When he lost to Starkiller, he allowed Starkiller to connect a hit because he was unable to properly defend himself fast enough from Starkiller's attack because of Starkiller's marginally better speed and agility. This was also part of why Vader lost to Maul, whose own agility and speed allowed him to adept to the environment better. Yoda ''takes Form IV to the highest level'' (Fight Saber), and his agility and speed is extraordinary and supersedes that of Starkiller's and Maul's by fairly large margins. Vader has a hard time with characters whose mobility and agility, in combination with their comparable skill, supersedes his own. Yoda is just a better swordsman. On Vjun, a nexus of dark side power, Yoda fought faster than Dooku and also forced him to retreat, which speaks volumes of his significant superior powers.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
So what? Starkiller was losing to Shaak Ti as well. Does that mean Ti's TK rivals his?

1. He beat Shaak Ti through his far superior TK.

2. This was clearly an advanced and more powerful Shaak Ti amped on Felucia.

3. Starkiller reached new heights of power since that fight.

4. He beat Shaak Ti through his far superior TK.



Originally posted by Intrepid37
We're talking about power, not range or precision.


Lol you think someone weak or average in the Force could do that? It clearly requires great great power.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ That doesn't mean he wasn't even close to the Emperor. He did have Palpatine screaming in pain.

Depends on the point of view. I guess, that Starkiller was stronger then usually, when he decided to sacrifice himself. A bit like Kenobi, when he fought brothers (I mean, both gave more then 100% of themselves).

But normaly, if Starkiller would fight as against Vader, he would be annihilated. Like in DS ending of this story.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
1. He beat Shaak Ti through his far superior TK.
Actually, I don't think he even utilized TK in that fight.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
2. This was clearly an advanced and more powerful Shaak Ti amped on Felucia.


Originally posted by DARTH POWER
3. Starkiller reached new heights of power since that fight.

Evidence?




Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Lol you think someone weak or average in the Force could do that? It clearly requires great great power.
I can't take you serious if you're seriously acting as if I said Vader is weak or average in the Force. Vader is my second-favorite character and clearly one of the most powerful practitioners of the Force in the entire mythos. His feats attest to that. So what if Yoda and Sidious are on another level with TK? Personally, there are only three other characters whose telekinetic capacity I put on their level. Vader not being one of them doesn't make him weak.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Actually, I don't think he even utilized TK in that fight.

Read the novel. He finished that fight by stopping her Saber strike with TK. (Which by the way was a desperate suicide attempt by Shaak Ti).






Originally posted by Intrepid37
Evidence?


She had the whole environment under her control, and her death completely shifted the balance of the Force on Felucia. Again read the novel.





Originally posted by Intrepid37
I can't take you serious if you're seriously acting as if I said Vader is weak or average in the Force.

Was being sarcastic to point out to you that the feat in mention clearly is a "Power" feat, and not just a "precision" feat like you were making out.


Originally posted by Intrepid37
Vader is my second-favorite character and clearly one of the most powerful practitioners of the Force in the entire mythos. His feats attest to that. So what if Yoda and Sidious are on another level with TK? Personally, there are only three other characters whose telekinetic capacity I put on their level. Vader not being one of them doesn't make him weak.


But his feats are comnparable. Choking a guy who moves Star Destroyers, Choking from another solar system, ripping apart an entire bridge, owning Jedi via TK with ease, blocking Blaster bolts with his hands, Skype choking(the last 2 are actually movie feats) e.t.c e.t.c

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Read the novel. He finished that fight by stopping her Saber strike with TK. (Which by the way was a desperate suicide attempt by Shaak Ti).
Do you have a quote?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
She had the whole environment under her control, and her death completely shifted the balance of the Force on Felucia. Again read the novel.
That's not really sufficient.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Was being sarcastic to point out to you that the feat in mention clearly is a "Power" feat, and not just a "precision" feat like you were making out.
No, it's precision and range, not power.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But his feats are comnparable. Choking a guy who moves Star Destroyers,
When?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Choking from another solar system,
Precision and range.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
ripping apart an entire bridge,
When?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
owning Jedi via TK with ease,
Jedi of repute?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
blocking Blaster bolts with his hands,
Which is Absorption, not TK.

I'll have to get out my TFU novel when I have time to answer most of the above. Can't remember the bridge thing now, think it was RODV? Anyone?

Of course Choking someone from a great distance indicates power. That's why I brought up before that you won't find any weak or average Jedi/Sith doing that. Why? Because they're not powerful enough to.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Do you have a quote?

Right here.

"The third (blow) would have skewered his right eye had he not held her back at the last minute with a desperate telekinetic block that stopped her lightsaber barely a milimeter from his skin."

"She had, in the desperation of her final assault, practically thrown herself on (Galen's) blade. Perhaps she had meant for the two of them to defeat each other at the same time."


Originally posted by Petrus
Since he got burned the shit out of his body by Obi, his lightsaber mastery lost significant prowess to it, and Yoda = RotS Sidious in this aspect, who in turn would handily beat RotS Vader.[/QUOTE

Not really. Vader's lightsabre skill improved greatly after he got burned. He displays far greater precision and economy of motion in the OT. The fact that he couldn't twirl and flip around anymore meant he had to.

Which do you think is more like real swordsmanship? ROTS style twirling and dancing around or ESB style fighting?

I think saying Vader would last 20 seconds against Yoda is a bit of an exaggeration. While I agree Yoda beats him handily, I doubt it'll be that easily. Dooku and Vader are comparable and Yoda certainly wouldn't own Dooku in 20 seconds.

But Dooku and Vader fight differently.

In theory Yoda shouldn't "10 second stomp" anyone whose 80% as powerful as Palpatine.

But I admit this could just be a bad clash of styles for Vader. Super agility/flexibility vs agility/flexibility weakness.

On the flip side, his higher strength may help against Yoda's low mass, and his reach advantage is greater than Dooku's, and his defense is pretty solid.

I will note when Luke won, it was not due to agility, it was due to raw power.

He's also quite capable of taking a hit and continuing fighting better than most. He's got armor, he's got cybernetic parts.

Originally posted by Q99
On the flip side, his higher strength may help against Yoda's low mass,
Right, and Yoda's own strength feat are significant.

Originally posted by Q99
and his reach advantage is greater than Dooku's,
And?

Originally posted by Q99
and his defense is pretty solid.
Sure, but not solid enough.

Originally posted by Q99
I will note when Luke won, it was not due to agility, it was due to raw power.
Because Luke, unlike Yoda, is a Djem So practitioner, which focuses on strength and power, not agility and mobility.

Originally posted by Q99
He's also quite capable of taking a hit and continuing fighting better than most. He's got armor, he's got cybernetic parts.
Right. One hit will still injure Vader nontheless, and after that, Yoda's taking him down within seconds.

Yoda...
Yoda...
Yoda....

Vader won't be able to keep up with Yoda due to the little guy constantly jumping around or taking jabs at his knees with that saber of his.