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They have no Idea what the others powers are
Combined Stats, Powers and Experience

The former is far stronger/tougher and wins.

That isn't the deciding here though

Bendis-man wins.

Let's pretend a competent writer is doing it... Say Liefeld. Ha I joke, I joke, I kid, I kid
But discounting Bendis written stuff...what do you think the outcome will be

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Let's pretend a competent writer is doing it... Say Liefeld. Ha I joke, I joke, I kid, I kid
But discounting Bendis written stuff...what do you think the outcome will be Wich Spider-man is it that you're using (because one is way more arrogant, less skilled, but has better weaponry/ powers and the other is slightly smarter, has morals, and is far more skilled and experienced than the other)?

WOTS Pete

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
WOTS Pete In that case, team two wins.

You can never cut off Luke Cage's connection to the Bendispower. At best, you can only dampen it somewhat.

Lol

Colossus' strength/durability/speed/skill amped by Midnighter's strength/durability/speed/battle computer/skill is a lot more deadly than Cage and Spidey mixed, especially in a forum fight.

Magnetic webbing followed by Spider Fu Cage-powered speedblitz then an anti-metal pellet cherry on top.
They'll be swipping Mindnitolossus off the floor.

Originally posted by SamZED
Magnetic webbing followed by Spider Fu Cage-powered speedblitz then an anti-metal pellet cherry on top.
They'll be swipping Mindnitolossus off the floor.

Midnitolossus: 'Door'.

Wouldn't the doors count as self bfr

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Wouldn't the doors count as self bfr

Or he could just push Peter Cage through.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/113883/3510940-6725228127-Midni.jpg

Spidey sense

Battle computer sneer

every action that Colosonite makes towards would cause SpidaCage to move elsewhere which would cause his battle computer to reroute...

has his battle computer ever been up against someone like Spidey?

And Originally posted by maxivitopowe
They have no Idea what the others powers are

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
And

That handicaps Peter Cage, more than Midolossus, really. His battle computer has always been a deus ex machina, and reacts pretty well to new opponents and new battle scenarios.

but has he been up against someone like Spidey with his sort of prescience

The battle comp can't work wothout knowing of it because instead of "millions" of possibilities there could be billions or even trillions

He calculates billions, on average.

Then there was the time he was fighting a ship full of xenomorph like aliens, and it was calculating billions of calculations for every one of them.

Also:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/2215683-16.png

I misspoke; it was a million opponents, and a million outcomes:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8256/m18yk8.jpg

yeah that why i said that there will be way more calcs

it would help if we knew how he reacted to prescience

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
yeah that why i said that there will be way more calcs

it would help if we knew how he reacted to prescience

Way more.....but his computer is able to do it.

Whereas all Peter Cage's abilities would tell him is that an attack is coming, and he can(?) react to it. Wouldn't tell him the nature of the attack, especially since he has no idea what Midnitolossus can do.

Whereas Midnitolossus' powers (depending on the writer) work backwards, which is the most important thing.

So say the outcome is that he Door's Peter Cage's head off (very likely, as Midnitolossus is way more bloodlusted than Peter Cage).

This means Peter Cage should be standing at point X, on Peter's left.
This means Peter needs to jump left.
This means that Midnitolossus needs to throw a kick to make Peter dodge left.

Midnitolossus throws a kick at Peter. He dodges, and jumps left - right where the door is.

Maybe Peter doesn't dodge left, but jumps straight up? This is where the computer comes in. But it all works towards the final outcome, of Peter getting Door'ed.

Etc etc. In reality, if Midnitolossus figures out Peter has a low level presience power, he could use it to his advantage.

So there are no showings of him against it? The prescience I mean.

None that I can think of. There was the Renegade Doctor, I guess...and Seth potentially had it.

But the presience of the scale of Peter isn't really that much of an advantage, once Midnighter figures it out (and he would).

Their abilities sort of cancel each other out. Both will see all the attacks coming. I doubt that the door work will work.

Both will see attacks coming, but Midnighterlossus is stronger/more durable, and in the same ball park of speed and agility. Also much more vicious and brutal which will give him a serious edge.

Pete, especially WOTS, and Cage are a match for Midnighter and Colossus respectively and individually so it isn't that much if a difference

I made Midnighter's and Spidey's matches on purpose cos off the way I know Spidey can even the gap between them

Cage is not a match for Colossus. He will get some good hits in and get overwhelmed.

Neither is Spidey really a match for a bloodlusted Mids.

He is not a match, Spidey is his.. superior..

See what I did there?

Also the lack of strength and durability is compensated by SM's speed and agility. Plus Cage's durability is not that much below Piotr's. So its mostly strength against speed.
As for spider sense at its best it not just warns him of the attack but guides his body out of harms way as well as lets him sense the nature of the attack and where its coming from. And ever since he got his MA training it pretty much guides his attacks and counter attacks. Ill post some scans as soon as I get back from London.

Cage needs a better partner to fuse with.

Ill fuse my boot to your a$$ if you dont stop downplaying Spidey.

Originally posted by SamZED
Ill fuse my boot to your a$$ if you dont stop downplaying Spidey.

My a$$ would break your scrawny little foot, buglover :P

Originally posted by SamZED
He is not a match, Spidey is his.. superior..

See what I did there?

Also the lack of strength and durability is compensated by SM's speed and agility. Plus Cage's durability is not that much below Piotr's. So its mostly strength against speed.
As for spider sense at its best it not just warns him of the attack but guides his body out of harms way as well as lets him sense the nature of the attack and where its coming from. And ever since he got his MA training it pretty much guides his attacks and counter attacks. Ill post some scans as soon as I get back from London.

London Schmondon....

With regards to speed, Midnighter has dealt with speedsters before. I wager it's the same way he will deal with spider sense - with his battle computer.

It's essentially a more extreme version of the spider sense, if (as I am taking it) it's the one that works backwards from a desired solution. The Spider sense is reactive - you are going to throw a punch with your right hand, so it will move you out of the way/block/dodge. Had I not thrown the punch, you would not have leapt in that direction.

With the battle computer, however, it can be used proactively. Your dodging of my initial punch merely set you up to be in a vulnerable position to get kicked, for example. Or door'ed.

Incidentally, the computer also tells him his opponents' enhancements etc. So he WILL know at a glance what Peter Cage can do.

That's true but at the end of the day they'll be just trading attacks and there is no scenario where MN's attack can get undetected by ss. Even after MN calculates SM's movement to land a hit or open the door SM will still sense it and act accordingly. That's how he's able to keep his ditance and avoid multiple attackers coming from every direction. He's also dealt with speedster and teleporters. Even teleporters armed with guns who used to pop up behind him while pulling the trigger. That makes for a very interesting and even elegant fight. The difference is Spider-Cage has tech that can handicap Midnigholossus movement options givving Luke-Man an advantage.

Midnigholossus plays Spidercage like a fiddle setting him up for an attack he can`t avoid then BAM lights out.

Originally posted by SamZED
That's true but at the end of the day they'll be just trading attacks and there is no scenario where MN's attack can get undetected by ss. Even after MN calculates SM's movement to land a hit or open the door SM will still sense it and act accordingly. That's how he's able to keep his ditance and avoid multiple attackers coming from every direction. He's also dealt with speedster and teleporters. Even teleporters armed with guns who used to pop up behind him while pulling the trigger. That makes for a very interesting and even elegant fight. The difference is Spider-Cage has tech that can handicap Midnigholossus movement options givving Luke-Man an advantage.

But would it enable him to change direction, say in mid air?

I'm asking this because in my head, the scenario I am seeing is MN FORCES Peter Cage to commit himself to a certain movement. Much like a chess match, where the chess master has played the entire game backwards to the start..you can only have so many options before you HAVE to act according to how he's forcing you to act. Sure, you can see the trap being laid for you as clear as day, but you have no other option but to move your pieces as he has predicted.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But would it enable him to change direction, say in mid air?

I'm asking this because in my head, the scenario I am seeing is MN FORCES Peter Cage to commit himself to a certain movement. Much like a chess match, where the chess master has played the entire game backwards to the start..you can only have so many options before you HAVE to act according to how he's forcing you to act. Sure, you can see the trap being laid for you as clear as day, but you have no other option but to move your pieces as he has predicted. Well of the top of my head I can think of two (there are a lot more) occasions when he's done exactly that. In mid air. And with his overall abilities and forewarning I dont see why not. And even when MN calculates what he needs to do there are so many options for him to put SM in a position where he can only move in one particular direction. MN is good but he's just one guy and itmakes it difficult to put someone in a corner figuratively speaking. Especially if this someone is Pete with his long established history of avoiding traps, attacks etc

Originally posted by Mshinu
Midnigholossus plays Spidercage like a fiddle setting him up for an attack he can`t avoid then BAM lights out. http://m.imgur.com/fJyTOzO

Originally posted by SamZED
Well of the top of my head I can think of two (there are a lot more) occasions when he's done exactly that. In mid air. And with his overall abilities and forewarning I dont see why not. And even when MN calculates what he needs to do there are so many options for him to put SM in a position where he can only move in one particular direction. MN is good but he's just one guy and itmakes it difficult to put someone in a corner figuratively speaking. Especially if this someone is Pete with his long established history of avoiding traps, attacks etc

Agreed. Problem for Peter Cage is, Mids has done it before, with a million bugs all out to kill him, and he was running his 'million outcomes' at the same time. Fighting one guy wouldn't be too much issue. Especially as the sense relies on instinct:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/0/3853/1275757-spiderspeed.jpg

Yes, you might think I weaken my argument with that scan - but my point was that Mids' abilities are different from reading your opponent. Without thinking about it, and facing a guy like Mids, it would be relatively easy for him to trip up when switching himself off and fighting on instinct....

Midnighter #7 explains it brilliantly.

The entire comic is a one-shot, and takes place in reverse order, with 'The End'. And show how it all works backwards.

http://www.comicvine.com/midnighter-7-fait-accompli/4000-109153/

Also, maxitovepowe, it says how he uses TRILLIONS of calculations, not just millions or billions.

http://pics.livejournal.com/alchemy_hisoka/pic/007qcrw6.jpg

.

It doesn't matter if Midnighter get a lick in though...Spidey Pete will be durable enough to take it. Also, Midnighter is far away from being unhittable as well.

Originally posted by carver9
It doesn't matter if Midnighter get a lick in though...Spidey Pete will be durable enough to take it. Also, Midnighter is far away from being unhittable as well.

What if it wasn't a lick, though? Midnighter can see what enhancements Peter Cage has. He'll know a punch won't end the fight.

A door, however, would.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
.
The scan doesnt weaken your argument but we both know for all the good showings there are always some bad ones. Doesnt take away from Spider's showings and doesnt mean MN can avoid million Spider-men because he's done it with million bugs, right? One A level martial artist can put up a fight and tag MN despite the computer. Same goes for Peteand his ss.
Still getting Pete in a position where he has no options to avoid an attack from a single opponent is no easy task.

http://imageshack.us/a/img802/360/21549735.jpg

And its not just instincts. Ever since his training he relies on MA skills. Spider sense merely makes him even more effective. Those villains all have spider powers BTW.
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1320/prv9725pg8.th.jpg

Here's a scan that falls well into this thread. No spider sense. An opponent with matching stats, MA training and most importantly the ability to KNOW future. Unlike MN who just calculates scenarios and makes them happen she knows EXACTLY what he's about to do and still cant land a single hit. Again, that's without Pete's spider sense and before he finished his training and he's not using any tech either.
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/th_TASM666023-024.jpg

Originally posted by SamZED


Here's a scan that falls well into this thread. No spider sense. An opponent with matching stats, MA training and most importantly the ability to KNOW future. Unlike MN who just calculates scenarios and makes them happen she knows EXACTLY what he's about to do and still cant land a single hit. Again, that's without Pete's spider sense and before he finished his training and he's not using any tech either.
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/th_TASM666023-024.jpg

Good scans, Didn't know about the Madame Web one, so thanks for that. I'll be busting it out next time I see a Spidey battle for sure.

See, I STILL have to disagree with it being equal to Mids. Similar, yes, but the crucial difference here is that Mids is actively pushing you towards the outcome that he has in mind. Every kick, punch or move is designed to set you up towards the final outcome.

Incidentally, how did that fight end?

@Dark...

If we look at fts, Spiderman spider sense outperforms Midnighters Prec...that's if we look at fts. Don't see how anyone would think Midnighters abilities is above Spidermans. Spiderman by far is one of the most unpredictable, UN-hittable character in comics and that includes when he is in the air.

OP, does Spiderlossus have webbing here.?

Originally posted by carver9
@Dark...

If we look at fts, Spiderman spider sense outperforms Midnighters Prec...that's if we look at fts. Don't see how anyone would think Midnighters abilities is above Spidermans. Spiderman by far is one of the most unpredictable, UN-hittable character in comics and that includes when he is in the air.

OP, does Spiderlossus have webbing here.?

Again, I refer to the million bugs and a million outcomes:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8256/m18yk8.jpg

Do we really think Spidey is THAT unpredictable that he can out smart a computer capable of running that many simulations in the midst of battle?

Or here, when Midnighter says how he performs trillions of variations....of the entire day. Not just of the next 10 or 20 seconds, but the entire day:

http://pics.livejournal.com/alchemy_hisoka/pic/007qcrw6.jpg

I'm assuming Peter Cage (not Spiderlossus) has his webbing. Which is why I assumed Midnitolossus had his doors etc.

Originally posted by SamZED
The scan doesnt weaken your argument but we both know for all the good showings there are always some bad ones. Doesnt take away from Spider's showings and doesnt mean MN can avoid million Spider-men because he's done it with million bugs, right? One A level martial artist can put up a fight and tag MN despite the computer. Same goes for Peteand his ss.
Still getting Pete in a position where he has no options to avoid an attack from a single opponent is no easy task.

http://imageshack.us/a/img802/360/21549735.jpg

And its not just instincts. Ever since his training he relies on MA skills. Spider sense merely makes him even more effective. Those villains all have spider powers BTW.
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1320/prv9725pg8.th.jpg

Here's a scan that falls well into this thread. No spider sense. An opponent with matching stats, MA training and most importantly the ability to KNOW future. Unlike MN who just calculates scenarios and makes them happen she knows EXACTLY what he's about to do and still cant land a single hit. Again, that's without Pete's spider sense and before he finished his training and he's not using any tech either.
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/th_TASM666023-024.jpg

That third image, is it from when he tooled White Rabbit and those other two (i can't remember who) when he was with Carly/Carli (can't remember which{I'm on my phone so image doesn't show up clearly})

I completely forgot bout the Madame Web showing and iirc DCNu Midnighter's powers work more like prescience know then they did before (this if coming from wikipedia so excuse me if in mistaken)

Oh wait, its DCnU Mids?

Nah just realised it makes it unfair

Nah just realised it makes it unfair and you've been arguing pre boot Mids anyway

So apart from bfr is there any other way anyone sees him winning?

Colossus has shown he's strong enough to beat Spidey to a pulp(As the Phoenix, but he showed no amping while he did so). And he'd be strong enough to do the same to Spidey Cage, especially with Mids physical stats amping him.

There's also the fact that Midnighter+Colossus is a much bigger speed/agility boost than Spidey+Cage. Midnighter and Spidey are in the same speed class and agility range imo, and Colossus is pretty high up there as well, with his speed actually being enhanced in metal form and being shown on panel several times.

It probably won't be a quick fight, but Midnightlossus is physically higher.

That was the worst arguament that you could have used against Spidey

He stayed behind in a cave with 2 nigh unstoppable Gods and was the only one who managed to leave there conscious

That was the worst arguament that you could have used against Spidey

He stayed behind in a cave with 2 nigh unstoppable Gods and was the only one who managed to leave there conscious

Colossus was holding back when he was beating on him. Magik and both of them knew he could have killed him at any time.

And you act like Spidey beat them or something. He used the fact that the Phoenix was corrupting their values and he made them turn on each other.

Colossus was clearly amped by the Phoenix as well as the rest of them. Dont see how its relevant to this thread tbh especially with Cage's durability added. Plus Luke is pretty fast himself and I believe Spider-Cage would still have a speed advantage.

@DarkSaint Ill respond to your post later if you dont mind.

Originally posted by SamZED
Colossus was clearly amped by the Phoenix as well as the rest of them. Dont see how its relevant to this thread tbh especially with Cage's durability added. Plus Luke is pretty fast himself and I believe Spider-Cage would still have a speed advantage.

@DarkSaint Ill respond to your post later if you dont mind.

There was no evidence of physical amping on pretty much any of the Phoenix's part. All the power was through energy and matter manipulation.

Making whales with legs.

Taking all the weapons of the world.

Creating that giant citadel.

He was phoenix amped, but nowhere was it physically. The Phoenix isn't even known for physically amping it's host in that way.

Originally posted by KingD19
There was no evidence of physical amping on pretty much any of the Phoenix's part. All the power was through energy and matter manipulation.

Making whales with legs.

Taking all the weapons of the world.

Creating that giant citadel.

He was phoenix amped, but nowhere was it physically. The Phoenix isn't even known for physically amping it's host in that way. And beating Thor to a bloody pulp with their bare hands. Even Emma Frost and Magik did a number on him. Magik is normally not strong enough to grab SM by his leg and swing him like a ragdoll. Each of Colossus' attacks (while held back) was doing more damage to Pete than random class 100+ hits are shown to do normally. In AvsX they didnt care much what Phoenix is known for. The four X-men were clearly amped physically.

What Sam said