Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who can beat Wildcat in a standard 12 round boxing match? Pre 52 versions of all DC characters and no armor for anyone.

http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Wildcat.jpg

vs

1. Hawkeye
2. Jason Tood
3. Punisher
4. Nightwing
5. Daredevil
6. Iron Fist w/o iron fist chi
7. Bane no venom
8. Batman
9. Black Panther standard level (especially not king of the dead)
10. Cap America

3, 7, 9, 10 can for sure (damage soak, strength).

Maybe 8.

1, 2, 4, 5, 6 are too handicapped, either by the removal of their abilities (chi amping) or their agility.

Even though it's a boxing match, their agility should still be in play.

I just couldn't see them leaping about with clunky boxing gloves strapped to their fists, and nothing in the ring to jump off on.

They can't punch on the back of their opponent (so back, back of the head etc), they must be standing with both feet on the mat when they punch, no punching below the waist, their head must always be above the waistline of their opponent.....not sure how much their agility will help. Sure, it WILL help, but their agility levels will still be handicapped by the rules.

5-10 beats him. 3-4 has a shot.

Cap crushes Ted

Bane, Danny, T'challa & Bruce also win

Everyone else is not imo.

8 9 and 10 could win after a good fight. That's it.

I'll note Daredevil's a boxer too.



Boxing's kinda famous for it's footwork among martial arts. There's lot of moving in, out, keep range. You can come from the sides, yadda yadda.

Nor do boxing gloves hinder speed at all- they might as well be feathers.

Originally posted by Q99
I'll note Daredevil's a boxer too.



Boxing's kinda famous for it's footwork among martial arts. There's lot of moving in, out, keep range. You can come from the sides, yadda yadda.

Nor do boxing gloves hinder speed at all- they might as well be feathers.

Oh no, not in terms of their weight - but I was thinking of Daredevil/Nightwing being unable to do things like handstands and leaping into the air etc. Becoming grounded, as it were.

Do you guys realize that everything Ted has ever accomplished has been done by using his fists and physical ability only? Do you know what his damage soak and strength is like on panel due to this fact?.....I didn't think so.

Carry on.

Also, his 9 lives...

Can't believe some people say Daredevil loses.

He does.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Who can beat Wildcat in a standard 12 round boxing match? Pre 52 versions of all DC characters and no armor for anyone.

http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Wildcat.jpg

vs

1. Hawkeye
2. Jason Tood
3. Punisher
4. Nightwing
5. Daredevil
6. Iron Fist w/o iron fist chi
7. Bane no venom
8. Batman
9. Black Panther standard level (especially not king of the dead)
10. Cap America

Being a martial artist doesn't mean you can box well (standard boxing rules), especially with big gloves on.

So again, many here are at a disadvantage.

The only ones who beat him for a majority is 8, 9, 10, and 5.
6 can possibly win because of speed and reflexes.
The rest loses a majority.

Bane without venom whoops him fo so...
Originally posted by Supermutant
Bane allows Catman to hit him a couple of times, before he overpowers him easily. He states that Catman hits daintly, and takes a punch in his abdomen without any effect.

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/9339/secretsix35005.th.jpghttp://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3887/secretsix35006.th.jpghttp://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3774/secretsix35009.th.jpghttp://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9454/secretsix35010.th.jpg

Bane's damage soak is pretty impressive - rivalled only by Punisher. Plus, he's pretty damn strong without Venom.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/secretsix23010.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/secretsix23012.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/338/secretsix23020.jpg/

Venomless Bane can rip people's limbs off.

I have a hard time seeing how he can't hang with Ted.

Poor Tim, he's such a beast
http://i40.tinypic.com/2cfwihc.jpg

But against Bane yeah I don't see him taking it, it would be like Apollo vs Ivan Drago ._.

Cap I could see winning too, that SSS is no joke.

I'd love to see him face Frank though in a boxing match, both can take an insane amount of punishment xD

I'll point out that they fight with their feet on the ground a lot of the time anyway, and there's nothing in the boxing rules that prevents them from leaping around if they want to.

Mobility is very much a thing in boxing, and Matt especially has boxing as one of his two primary styles.



Boxing is a martial art, and the purpose of the gloves is purely to protect your hands while the puncher hits *harder*.

If a martial artist is a striker type- like, oh, every single one of them here- then it doesn't hinder their punches in the slightest.

I'm not really aware of Wildcat's feats. Is there a Wildcat respect thread that I can look at?

1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/JSAClassified035-01.jpg
2. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/JSAClassified035-02.jpg
3. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/JSAClassified035-03.jpg

Not sure why people think damage soak would give them advantage over Grant. Not like this guy has a glass jaw either. He doesn't fight people with weapons, or super powers. He just straight up knocks their blocks off with a right hook.

Originally posted by Q99
If a martial artist is a striker type- like, oh, every single one of them here- then it doesn't hinder their punches in the slightest.

Not true, MMA fighters don't transition well into boxing and boxers don't transition well into MMA. Different type of fighting, and the problem many MMA fighter have with boxing is their not used to the extra weight of the gloves which throws off their timing, rhythm and stamina...and yes, that is true.

Different rules all together as well, for instance you can't superman punch in boxing and the footwork is what many critics agree is better in boxing then in MMA fights. These rules and limitations will be difficult for many of the people here to adjust against someone who is his main strength and was formerly the world champion. Heck, some wouldn't even be in his weight class.

In straight boxing Ted wrecks them all. Most of these guys have no boxing experience, and Ted the best boxer on Earth, bar none.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Not true, MMA fighters don't transition well into boxing and boxers don't transition well into MMA. Different type of fighting, and the problem many MMA fighter have with boxing is their not used to the extra weight of the gloves which throws off their timing, rhythm and stamina...and yes, that is true.


Fair enough, though superheroes generally have little problem adjusting to such things, and many have some boxing training anyway.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t495763.html Originally posted by deathslash
I'm not really aware of Wildcat's feats. Is there a Wildcat respect thread that I can look at? yeah, I made it.

Originally posted by -K-M-
1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/JSAClassified035-01.jpg
2. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/JSAClassified035-02.jpg
3. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/JSAClassified035-03.jpg

Not sure why people think damage soak would give them advantage over Grant. Not like this guy has a glass jaw either. He doesn't fight people with weapons, or super powers. He just straight up knocks their blocks off with a right hook.

Lol.

Also the best part is how Alan says he can't actually hurt Grundy only for Wildcat to take him out by tossing him into a wall. Double lol.

It's his own momentum added to teds helpful push in the right direction.lol

I cant take any set of scans seriously that has Wildcat beating Grundy.

Originally posted by tkitna
I cant take any set of scans seriously that has Wildcat beating Grundy.

That's what I always said about Sentry and Terrax biscuits

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
In straight boxing Ted wrecks them all. Most of these guys have no boxing experience, and Ted the best boxer on Earth, bar none.

Rogers would son him, let's be honest.

Originally posted by tkitna
I cant take any set of scans seriously that has Wildcat beating Grundy. various incarnations with varying levels of power. Plus the whole momentum thing.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Rogers would son him, let's be honest.
Nope.

Caps main MA is boxing, and he has every advantage here that stats cover.

Wildcat is a much better boxer...best in comics. And he doesn't need statements on physical stats when all he ever does on panel is physically beat tf out of superhumans with his bare hands and withstand damage he has no business surviving routinely. He doesn't have a indestructible shield or bullet proof armor. Hes a guy in a cat suit that punches people's faces in....simple and quite impressive.

Cap does have damn near limitless endurance, superhuman speed, durability and strength. All that doesn't just go away. At the very least, assuming Steve and Ted are neck and neck, Steve's going to outlast him.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Nope.

He really would.

Cap has pretty much every single advantage stat wise (not just statements either but actual feats). And Ted's mastery of boxing won't close the gap between them.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Wildcat is a much better boxer...best in comics. And he doesn't need statements on physical stats when all he ever does on panel is physically beat tf out of superhumans with his bare hands and withstand damage he has no business surviving routinely. He doesn't have a indestructible shield or bullet proof armor. Hes a guy in a cat suit that punches people's faces in....simple and quite impressive.

Much better?

Yeah.....much better....then anyone. Like I said, cap has armor to assist his durability feats, Ted doesn't. Cap has a shield to protect him, Ted doesn't. What Ted has done physically without assistance can match up with cap excluding healing, stamina, and speed(Ted also had amazing speed feats). I don't care that Ted is human and cap is "peak human". Look what this guy does unassisted with pure h2h routinely. Ted can school cap in pure boxing. Ted beat a room full of fighters endowed with his own boxing prowess collectively. They were not enhanced like cap, but still. Im not even saying cap doesn't have a good chance of winning due to physical superiority....I'm saying you guys are doing what you always do. Writing a character off and saying cap would crush him because he's cap and this is kmc....and also maybe due to a general lack of knowledge on a much more obscure character.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Wildcat is a much better boxer...best in comics. And he doesn't need statements on physical stats when all he ever does on panel is physically beat tf out of superhumans with his bare hands and withstand damage he has no business surviving routinely. He doesn't have a indestructible shield or bullet proof armor. Hes a guy in a cat suit that punches people's faces in....simple and quite impressive.

Much better? You can't be serious.

Ted is simply the finest boxer to every live in his universe. Plainly stated so. His teammates consider him the best fighter in the world period. No one has the statements or feats to hold a candle to him in that category....not even kmcs very own golden boy. I just said ted beat a room full of fighters in their prime enhanced with his own boxing prowess. That's so impressive boxing wise that it really didn't even make sense.

Originally posted by tkitna
I cant take any set of scans seriously that has Wildcat beating Grundy.

Batman did it 2-3 times.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Yeah.....much better....then anyone. Like I said, cap has armor to assist his durability feats, Ted doesn't. Cap has a shield to protect him, Ted doesn't. What Ted has done physically without assistance can match up with cap excluding healing, stamina, and speed(Ted also had amazing speed feats). I don't care that Ted is human and cap is "peak human". Look what this guy does unassisted with pure h2h routinely. Ted can school cap in pure boxing. Ted beat a room full of fighters endowed with his own boxing prowess collectively. They were not enhanced like cap, but still. Im not even saying cap doesn't have a good chance of winning due to physical superiority....I'm saying you guys are doing what you always do. Writing a character off and saying cap would crush him because he's cap and this is kmc....and also maybe due to a general lack of knowledge on a much more obscure character.

Except I know Wildcat as well (see previous 9 lives comment).

You yourself admitted, Ted can match up to Cap EXCLUDING healing, stamina, and speed.

Three rather important factors going over 12 rounds.

He actually is immortal and will always resurrect unless killed nine times in rapid succession. Hes already died more than nine times.

Healing isn't much of a factor because cap didn't heal so rapidly like Slade or wolverine to where he'll visibly start to recover from wounds mid fight. Stamina would be a factor and so would speed. That is precisely why I said this:

Originally posted by namorsubby
8 9 and 10 could win after a good fight. That's it.

And I do mean could. Ted is so highly skilled in this particular fighting style that I consider all these guys rank amateurs in comparison. He contends with Bruce, who is much more skilled overall(and more skilled than cap according to on panel evidence and not statements) due to his boxing.

Originally posted by namorsubby
He actually is immortal and will always resurrect unless killed nine times in rapid succession. Hes already died more than nine times.

Healing isn't much of a factor because cap didn't heal so rapidly like Slade or wolverine to where he'll visibly start to recover from wounds mid fight. Stamina would be a factor and so would speed. That is precisely why I said this:



And I do mean could. Ted is so highly skilled in this particular fighting style that I consider all these guys rank amateurs in comparison. He contends with Bruce, who is much more skilled overall(and more skilled than cap according to on panel evidence and not statements) due to his boxing.

So you think the skill gap is good enough for him to beat a guy is not only faster, but able to keep up this higher speed (footwork, dodging, hand speed etc) for longer than you can keep your own speed up?

And has a tiiiiiny HF whereby he could tank your punches better than an average boxer could?

TBH, we both largely agree. I just have Bane and Punisher there as well, because of their damage soak plus Bane's ridiculous strength.

Yes, because according to statements and feats.....cap doesn't have sh!t on Ted when it comes to boxing alone. None of these guys do.

Ted doesn't have stated enhanced healing, durability, speed, or strength. But he routinely displays it on panel except healing. Kingpin, KK, etc type deal. A human doesn't smash metal robots with his fists causing the impacted metal to shatter or kick off their metal legs with his flesh and bone legs. A human doesn't hold a large crocodiles mouth open when it's trying to snap shut on him. A human doesn't have the strength to ko enhanced superhumans or the speed to strike them in the first place. A human doesn't have the ability to not only survive but fight through any of several instances of damage that should be fatal. wildcat does

Id actually add Bane to that list as well even without venom. Punisher? Not so much

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Batman did it 2-3 times.

Which is silly, but Batman is the flagship character in DC along with Superman, so a little jobbing is expected. Losing to Wildcat though? The guys a Z lister for cripes sake.

Greatest boxer ever? Lol. Whatever. Even if DC claimed something silly like that, I hope everybody realizes that doesnt pertain to the Marvel universe.

Lol spoken like a true marvel slanted KMCer.

I won't attempt to reason with you. I'll just bask in satisfaction of knowing you can't provide a single shred of evidence to suggest that any character in comics is a more skilled boxer than Ted Grant, or even close.

To say Wildcat would win over Cap would basically be saying, he would be fast enough to avoid more hits than Cap would, would deal more damage to cap than vice versa, and would outlast him, all laughable notions.

Ok...so it's clear you don't believe that skill matters. In other words knowledge is not power and experience means nothing. Those are what I call laughable notions.

Because we all know Cap is some dude off the street with zero fighting skill

Originally posted by namorsubby
Lol spoken like a true marvel slanted KMCer.

I won't attempt to reason with you. I'll just bask in satisfaction of knowing you can't provide a single shred of evidence to suggest that any character in comics is a more skilled boxer than Ted Grant, or even close.

Lol. Your the one with the hard on for Wildcat. I'm just using common sense in believing the character with superhuman feats would win against a mere human here.

You just gave KK the win in a different thread. Am I supposed to take you serious?

KK is on a whole nother level. Not nearly the same.

Once again you are mistaken. Titles mean nothing. A lot of you here use this flawed logic. Oh Batmans "human" and caps "low meta" so automatically he gets the nod in every physical category. Ignoring the obviously superhuman feats Bruce accomplishes routinely. like I said before, Wildcat is nothing more than a man in a cat suit who uses his fists to pummel superhumans. His damage soak, strength, speed, all rival caps. Statements are just statements.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Because we all know Cap is some dude off the street with zero fighting skill We all know...correction, I know that cap can't hold a candle to Ted in boxing and there's nothing on panel or otherwise to suggest he can.

Originally posted by tkitna
I cant take any set of scans seriously that has Wildcat beating Grundy.

The thing that makes that particular issue of JSA classified hard to buy is the fact that Alan is present. Many think there are different versions of Grundy with differnt power levels which is simply wrong. One of Grundy's powers is that his body absorbs energy which he uses to enhance his physical stats. In one DC presents or bold and the Brave he actually manifested TK powers after absorbing too much radiation. He's particularly fond of magical energy but any for of energy enhances him. Subsequently when he faces more powerful opponents he becomes more powerful. When he fights a team steeped in energy he's a team buster.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Yes, because according to statements and feats.....cap doesn't have sh!t on Ted when it comes to boxing alone. None of these guys do.

Ted doesn't have stated enhanced healing, durability, speed, or strength. But he routinely displays it on panel except healing. Kingpin, KK, etc type deal. A human doesn't smash metal robots with his fists causing the impacted metal to shatter or kick off their metal legs with his flesh and bone legs. A human doesn't hold a large crocodiles mouth open when it's trying to snap shut on him. A human doesn't have the strength to ko enhanced superhumans or the speed to strike them in the first place. A human doesn't have the ability to not only survive but fight through any of several instances of damage that should be fatal. wildcat does

Id actually add Bane to that list as well even without venom. Punisher? Not so much
Who do you think would win between him and Shang Chi?

Originally posted by namorsubby
We all know...correction, I know that cap can't hold a candle to Ted in boxing and there's nothing on panel or otherwise to suggest he can.

Ted doesn't have nearly enough skill to overcome the massive physical advantages Cap has on him. There's only so many ways you can throw a fist and Cap has seen them all and then some.

Originally posted by namorsubby
His teammates consider him the best fighter in the world period.


Uhhh.... they do? Since when?


There's a couple JSAers I'd give the nod in a full martial arts match (though not a boxing match).

Originally posted by Q99
Uhhh.... they do? Since when?


There's a couple JSAers I'd give the nod in a full martial arts match (though not a boxing match). Jay garrick, Stargirl, etc. I'm too lazy to post it. The respect thread links in the second page

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Who do you think would win between him and Shang Chi?
In a 12 round boxing match or in general? Can't really say I know shang has instances of chi amping which is pretty much saying I'm human but I'm really superhuman. Could he apply that using boxing? Idk

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Ted doesn't have nearly enough skill to overcome the massive physical advantages Cap has on him. There's only so many ways you can throw a fist and Cap has seen them all and then some.
What massive physical advantages? They're are none. Also, Boxing is much more than "punching stuff"

So your saying Captain America holds NO physical advantages over Wildcat? lol

Cap wins against Ted like Batman but to think its going to be easy is ridiculous. Ted knocked out Hawkman with a headbutt and Carter shits on Cap in stats.

Originally posted by namorsubby
We all know...correction, I know that cap can't hold a candle to Ted in boxing and there's nothing on panel or otherwise to suggest he can. Actually all we know about cap in this matter is that he knows how to box... How good or poor is something no one here can say other than he is probably at the least at olympic competitor level on his base stats alone with any skill being icing on the cake... Does he have the technical skill of someone like Mayweather Jr.? Probably not. Do I think he could knock his head clean off despite Mayweather having the best defensive game and technical boxing skills today? Definitely. So arguing for him negatively or positively is moot. You only have his other combat skills to say how he would do. Honestly it hurt's Ted more the fact that he has few other skills than his boxing skills where someone like Batman has that and a wide variety of martial arts skills. You would think he would have picked something up over the years so... yeah.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Cap wins against Ted like Batman but to think its going to be easy is ridiculous. Ted knocked out Hawkman with a headbutt and Carter shits on Cap in stats.

Not saying it would be easy and Cap also occasionally bats way outside his and Ted's league as well, but I agree and would probably also give the slight nod to Batman winning also.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Jay garrick, Stargirl, etc. I'm too lazy to post it. The respect thread links in the second page.

Couldn't find the Stargirl one, but they aren't martial artists in any case, so they aren't the best judges.



You've read the Birds of Prey storyline where he and Canary go up against the 12 Brothers in Silk, right? It's a cool story that shows Ted fight alongside and against some good foes, and I think it respects him well, but it doesn't paint him as the most skilled in the room.

Originally posted by Q99
Couldn't find the Stargirl one, but they aren't martial artists in any case, so they aren't the best judges.



You've read the Birds of Prey storyline where he and Canary go up against the 12 Brothers in Silk, right? It's a cool story that shows Ted fight alongside and against some good foes, and I think it respects him well, but it doesn't paint him as the most skilled in the room.
I believe that's the one where he punched that guy for making fun of his hat and he "catches" ninja stars by simply letting them become embedded in his hand. Cool read. And yes id admit that's he isn't the most skilled fighter overall. But in the dc universe its been made clear that he is without question the "finest boxer who had ever lived". Cap holds no such distinction in his comic universe

Originally posted by JayDaDon
So your saying Captain America holds NO physical advantages over Wildcat? lol umm no. You said MASSIVE physical advantages. Not so according to feats.