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All combatants are at the peak of their power


Scenario 1:
Location: Vjun

Scenario 2:
Location: Sidious vs. Maul and Savage

Scenario 3:
Location: Jedi Temple

Who takes this?

1. The Sith.

2. Split, maybe slight majority to the Jedi.

3. Jedi.

Jedi in all.

This is like the other thread with Maul instead of Kenobi, isn't it?


Tyranus and Maul in a literal curbstomp. Not only are their regular telekinetic feats better than Mace's and Obi-Wan's, Vjun fueles their powers and decreases the Jedi's: they're simply too powerful with such an advantage.


This is the most even scenario. Whether Maul's knowledge of this place will afford him an advantage could be argued (probably not).

Lightsaber ability should be roughly even, though the Sith are somewhat more skilled and have better physical attributes. Team 1 should win a small majority, though, because of them being more powerful.


The Jedi win handily. The Jedi Temple is a very great nexus of light side power; whether it would lessen the Sith's power as a dark side nexus lessens a Jedi's power I'm unaware; but a power boost to Mace and Obi-Wan is more than enough to close the gap in sheer power and tip the scale in their favor by a decent amount.

Originally posted by ares834
Jedi in all.


How the heck are Mace and Kenobi going to win this on Vjun?

By beating them. Mace will beat Dooku and Kenobi will be able to last at least long enough for Windu to help mop up Maul.

Originally posted by ares834
By beating them. Mace will beat Dooku and Kenobi will be able to last at least long enough for Windu to help mop up Maul.

Ares is actually correct here.. even if he's wrong on Gothmog and Sauron

In Sith Hunters Maul effortlessly force chokes Kenobi in a place strong in the dark side. Whilst this is frigging Vjun!

In ROTS Dooku effortlessly force chokes Kenobi while fighting off Skywalker in a neutral setting. And again this is frigging Vjun.

Kenobi will be fodder here then Mace will get double teamed by 2 of Sidious' s apprentices on a frigging Dark Side nexus.

Originally posted by Intrepid37

Tyranus and Maul in a literal curbstomp. Not only are their regular telekinetic feats better than Mace's and Obi-Wan's, Vjun fueles their powers and decreases the Jedi's: they're simply too powerful with such an advantage.



Agreed. Here is a quote from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous:

"Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been (Tyranus's) equal on neutral ground: but her on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible - wickedness cut in red light."

Going off-topic for a moment, that raises an interesting point.

"Ventress was swinging for the girl, but the Force was strong in Scout too, in this place and hour, and her parry was there before the killing blow could fall."

At first I thought that meant Scout was able to block the attack due to them being on Vjun and that any Force-user was "amped" by being there, but on reflection you're right. A dark nexus would only be beneficial to Sith/Dark Jedi. Clearly the above line was meant figuratively.

Thanks for that.

No prob.

1: Absolute curbstomp from the Sith team.

2: A good win for the Sith team.

3: A close fight, with the Jedi maybe edging it out at the end. Not too sure about that, though. I think that the Jedi Temple might not be enough for them to defeat these two, because Obi-Wan.

Scenario 1:
Well, I'm not sure if DS nexus wont be a buff for Mace. If Mace can empower himself by DS from Vjun, he will be probably equal to empowered Count.
Anyway, Dooku and Maul have a handicap here for sure, and Kenobi will be everhelmed by anyone of them.
In that situation Kenobi is a weakest link.
If Mace wont be able to empowered himself, then the Sith will win that quite easily.

Scenario 2:
If Maul will engage Mace, Dooku will defeat Kenobi much faster, then Mace will defeat Maul. So it will be 2v1, and Sith will win.
If Mace will engage Dooku, it will be closer. But still, even if Maul wont be able to TK Kenobi, Dooku will be for sure. He has already shown, that he's able to TK Kenobi while fighting other opponent. And Kenobi probably will be focued on Maul, so it will be even easier for Dooku then it was in ROTS.

Scenario 3:
I'm not sure about Jedi Temple. Dooku was a Jedi for so long, so I'm not sure if this place will be a great disadvantage for him.

Like Petrus, I think that the Sith team will win all 3, because of Kenobi's lack of force guard.

Originally posted by Zett

I'm not sure about Jedi Temple. Dooku was a Jedi for so long, so I'm not sure if this place will be a great disadvantage for him.



Jedi Temple is on a Light Side Force Nexus.

On Vjun, Tyranus could probably just use Choke on Kenobi until he dies.

Yeah I just don't see Obi-Wan beating Maul, even in a LS nexus. He always seems to struggle greatly against him and in the end is overpowered .

I do think that Kenobi, aided by nexus power, could beat Maul.

Maybe. Convince me. excellent

Not really sure how to form such a case. But evidently, the power radiating within the Jedi Temple is quite powerful.



Considering that they're peers as swordsmen with power being Maul's ''real'' advantage, I do think that it would be reasonable to assume that inside the Temple, Maul's powers would be rather obsolete against Obi-Wan, whose physical attributes, on the other hand, would be boosted slightly beyond what Maul has shown.

So, the Temple might compare to what Malachor V is for dark siders. If this is the case, you've convinced me. To me, it depended on how truly powerful the LS nexus was, and as I've read what you provided, it's clear to me that it's importance in relevance of boosting Jedi powers is very significant. Obi-Wan possibly takes Maul. I still think it'd be after a long and hard duel doe.

Fair enough.

This is like the other duels...except you added a dark side nexus....
ok...to my understanding Obi Wan seems to have Maul's number in every duel...
he'll last long enough for Windu to help finish Maul....

Tyranus and Mace...is there Magna Guards,near by? to help him escape...like the last duel???
Both will benefit from the dark side nexus...Tyranus will get half of the boost instead of the full,

because I still don't believe Tyranus is full Sith(no yellow eyes)..
imo he is more full Dark Jedi Master pretending to be full Sith....

As far as Mace goes...he'll channel half of the Dark Side Nexus and use it against Tyranus...
Or channel Tyranus's Dark Side Nexus boost back at him...or both...
it won't take much and overwhelm Tyranus....

Tyranus and Darth Maul are good....they won't win all 3 tiers...may be 1but 3...
Even with home advantage....
I say Mace and Kenobi 2 to 1.....

Originally posted by juyomaster34
This is like the other duels...except you added a dark side nexus....
ok...to my understanding Obi Wan seems to have Maul's number in every duel...
he'll last long enough for Windu to help finish Maul....

Tyranus and Mace...is there Magna Guards,near by? to help him escape...like the last duel???
Both will benefit from the dark side nexus...Tyranus will get half of the boost instead of the full,

because I still don't believe Tyranus is full Sith(no yellow eyes)..
imo he is more full Dark Jedi Master pretending to be full Sith....

As far as Mace goes...he'll channel half of the Dark Side Nexus and use it against Tyranus...
Or channel Tyranus's Dark Side Nexus boost back at him...or both...
it won't take much and overwhelm Tyranus....

Tyranus and Darth Maul are good....they won't win all 3 tiers...may be 1but 3...
Even with home advantage....
I say Mace and Kenobi 2 to 1.....

Its far more likely Dooku simply masks his appearance similarly to how Palpatine does his. The man is very dedicated to his appearance, Dark Side wrinkles would hardly be something he'd abide by.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
This is like the other duels...except you added a dark side nexus....
ok...to my understanding Obi Wan seems to have Maul's number in every duel...
he'll last long enough for Windu to help finish Maul....




Or Dooku chokes Kenobi like he did in ROTS, then Dooku and Maul double team Windu.

If it's a double team then Dooku is the first to go.....with Kenobi recovering from his choke,barely
stopping Mace from killing Maul....

So of you people crack me up and its as if you've never read a novel.. watched a cartoon or movie. Kenobi hung in or beat Maul and Savage at the same time... Yet there are some clowns that are acting like Maul just stomps all over kenobi. It's an absolute joke to even utter such words. In fact, Kenobi holds the most decisive victory of the two fighting eachother... you know.. that time he turned maul into a half pint midget as a padawan... I mean honestly.. Maul stomping kenobi is well past dumb and into hilarious category

Oh not this crap again:


Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Kenobi hung in or beat Maul and Savage at the same time...


Kind of like how Maul was stalemating/beating Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn at the same time.



Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
In fact, Kenobi holds the most decisive victory of the two fighting eachother... you know.. that time he turned maul into a half pint midget as a padawan... I mean honestly.. Maul stomping kenobi is well past dumb and into hilarious category


You mean after Maul fought off both Kenobi and Qui-Gon together, and then killed Qui-gon and then disarms Kenobi and it ends with a surprise move on Maul. Yeah great

Problem is DP.. I'm not the one saying Maul stomps Kenobi like I've see a few people say. You know that is a stupid stance, and yet, you said nothing. I don't care if people think Maul could win after a long tough fight, and while I don't agree, I could see that. This notion that Kenobi is the weak link and maul will just walk all over him is a joke.. plain and simple..

I agree with KuRuPT Thanosi for once. There's no way that Maul would be able to stomp Kenobi without serious advantages.

However, now the Dark Side Nexus on Vjun could be one such 'serious advantage'. We already saw what happens when Maul and Kenobi meet on a Dark Side Nexus in Sith Hunters.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Problem is DP.. I'm not the one saying Maul stomps Kenobi like I've see a few people say. You know that is a stupid stance, and yet, you said nothing. I don't care if people think Maul could win after a long tough fight, and while I don't agree, I could see that. This notion that Kenobi is the weak link and maul will just walk all over him is a joke.. plain and simple..


This I agree with. They've just fought too many times for anyone to be under the delusion that Maul stomps.

I personally see them as equals (which I have stated on countless occasions on these boards btw).

Maul's the Anti-Kenobi to me. Kenobi's not the most powerful Jedi, but he packs a punch and is the "perfect" Jedi so to speak. Same with Maul as a Sith.

They might("might" being the key word) be equals now but Kenobi has peaked, and Maul is nowhere near his peak.

Maul was scarily powerful for a Force user in his early 20s. He survived being bisected and spent the past 12-13 years living as an animal, and only a short while after regaining his sanity he was able to fight on even ground with opponents such as Kenobi and Ventress.
A few months after that he was able to hold his own against Sidious himself for a while. And in the deleted scene he was able to withstand Sidious' lightning and pin him to the wall with the Force.

People don't acknowledge how much of a prodigy Maul really is. Maul has all the right stuff to surpass even Sidious in power(though not in cunning). In fact not even the Chosen One, who shoots midichlorians out of his rear end, has displayed such a level of precociousness. In fact the only one who surpasses him in this department is Luke, and that happened decades ago when the Jedi were barely fleshed out and the Sith didn't even exist.

Lol.

What makes you say that about Kenobi? Kenobi was still improving up to the end of the clone wars, as his fight with Anakin showed.



Uh, not really. I mean, he didn't increase that much from PM and his revival, and he had a lot of training before that point.

Sure, he improved, but it wasn't that giant a leap. Nor were his force powers too crazy.

I could see him eventually passing Sidious in dueling-but-not-force...



As for force users gaining power fast, consider Rivi-Anu. Holds up a Venator star destroyer as a just-promoted-from-Padawan knight.

Originally posted by Q99

Uh, not really. I mean, he didn't increase that much from PM and his revival, and he had a lot of training before that point.

Sure, he improved, but it wasn't that giant a leap. Nor were his force powers too crazy.


Well that's probably to do with the fact that he wasn't exactly training in the years in between. Guy was just out of his mind crawling around on those spider legs.


Originally posted by Q99
I could see him eventually passing Sidious in dueling-but-not-force...



He will have great potential, otherwise Sidious would never have wasted all that time on him. But still Sidious didn't seem totally satisfied that Maul was "the one." So he probably had potential to grow near Sidious level, but maybe not quite equal him.


But who knows how much potential Kenobi had as well. The guy was the Master of Soresu, and beating on foes such as Opress, Sith Skywalker, Ventress and Greivous before he even reached 40. And was stalemating Vader when he was in his late 50's after presumably being out of action for many years.

Originally posted by Unbowed
They might("might" being the key word) be equals now but Kenobi has peaked, and Maul is nowhere near his peak.

Maul was scarily powerful for a Force user in his early 20s. He survived being bisected and spent the past 12-13 years living as an animal, and only a short while after regaining his sanity he was able to fight on even ground with opponents such as Kenobi and Ventress.
A few months after that he was able to hold his own against Sidious himself for a while. And in the deleted scene he was able to withstand Sidious' lightning and pin him to the wall with the Force.

People don't acknowledge how much of a prodigy Maul really is. Maul has all the right stuff to surpass even Sidious in power(though not in cunning). In fact not even the Chosen One, who shoots midichlorians out of his rear end, has displayed such a level of precociousness. In fact the only one who surpasses him in this department is Luke, and that happened decades ago when the Jedi were barely fleshed out and the Sith didn't even exist.

I almost spit out the water I was drinking when I read this... Is this sarcasm?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I almost spit out the water I was drinking when I read this... Is this sarcasm?
Is anything I said not true?

This place seems to be big on groupthink and "snappy" replies, not so much on critical thinking.

Well this part of your post is a bit out there:



Originally posted by Unbowed
Maul has all the right stuff to surpass even Sidious in power(though not in cunning).


And this part is just crazy:


Originally posted by Unbowed



You seem to be mistaking Maul for Starkiller or something. An easy mistake as both are voiced by Sam Witwer

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well this part of your post is a bit out there:






And this part is just crazy:





You seem to be mistaking Maul for Starkiller or something. An easy mistake as both are voiced by Sam Witwer
I'm sorry but it's true. Look at his TCW arc for instance. In only a few months after being out of comission for 13 years Maul goes from the SW equivalent of a crazy hobo to being able to duel Sidious on even terms for a short while. Though I'm not sure if it's canon or not, the deleted scene where he blocks Sidious lightning and then pins him to the wall is very impressive. So much so that Sidious simply can't overpower him, he has to crash the stone thingie(or was it a chandelier?) from above in order to escape. While the effort left Maul drained, who else in the entire saga(besides arguably Mace) has achieved such dominance over Sidious, even if it was temporary?

What makes it even more impressive is that Maul lost half of his body, and thus his potential.

While he was in his early 20s Maul dueled and killed one of the best masters in the Order. By comparisson, Plagueis for instance was in his 25th year of apprenticeship before his first mission, to assassinate a person he was sitting across the table from him, and wasn't even Force sensitive.
To put things in perspective, the current Maul is around 35 years old and rivals Dooku in power, who has about 90 years of Force training(13 of them as a Sith). With half-a-body at that.

It's scary to think what Maul would have been had he not been bisected in Theed, with his body intact and 13 more years of apprenticeship under Sidious.

Rivals Dooku in power? Please. He can barely beat Kenobi.

Windu would've taken down Sidious/Palpatine plain and simple had he not had interference or had the need to bring him to justice. He's also great with his fists and his Force Jumping might work in his favor so he's basically the Jedi equivalent of Dooku/Tyranus.

Obi-Wan varies but he does the typical factor which is getting tossed around and then finally becoming the last man standing but if he has help from someone other than Qui-Gon, he's set to go me thinks.

This would be even more interesting if we had Yoda, Joruus C'Baoth or Darth Bane were in this match.

Scenario 1:

Windu struggled to use Vapaad on Haruun Kal because he was afraid of being overwhelmed by the Dark Side.

Maul in the cartoon ragdolled Kenobi with the force while Kenobi seemed to be the better lightsaber duelist. This was on neutral ground.

With these two facts, I can't see how the Jedi would win here.

Scenario 2:

Dooku vs Mace: I would guess Mace would win more often.
Maul vs Kenobi: This is more of an even split.

I'd say the Jedi would win at least 6/10.

Scenario 3:

In the TOR trailer, Malgus didn't seem to have too much of a problem fighting in the Jedi temple. But that was a different era, so I don't know.

I would guess the Jedi would win though.

agreed...I saw that clip,..I also saw Mace in action against Mother Talzin and Fighting what looks
to be gundarks or something...impressive...most impressive...Don't get me started on Yoda vs dark
Yoda.... March 7th is taking too long to get here....

I heard it was out in Germany already....spoiler alert!!!!