Mandrakk(Dax Novu) vs Thanos with IG

Mr Master

Thanos made it clear, he was supreme over all UniverseS:

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17497900_IG_all_universes.jpg

When he let off that crazy reality wave of destruction (since the universe wasn't enough for Miss D)
which spread outward of 616 into Pocket-verses like Asgard Space and beyond,
it was noted later that this wave reached outside All Eternity into the Beyond Realm,
where it obliterated Counter-Earth, which the Beyonders' were keeping there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, even the Incomplete IG was portrayed as Far beyond universal. (gives Thanos' words weight)

Magus merged 616 and a duplicate 616 in an instant.

But when Magus and Warlock struggled over the Incomplete IG, it was a battle across countless universeS:

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17497903_IG_beyond_universe_7.jpg

The effects across countless universeS was still resinating across Time/Space,
Dr Strange noted after leaving Alternate Reality 691: (over 1000 years in the Future)

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17497899_Alternate_Futures.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Incomplete IG Magus, was Omnipresent: (to what extent, I don't know)
but what we do know is that this scene is Magus appearing physically in 616,
from the Universe he's located in which is at-least literally well over 100 universeS away:

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17497902_IG_beyond_universe_6.jpg

operator616

^ I don't believe the IG makes one supreme across all realities, Thanos contradicted that claim in the exact same issue when he said that he is this reality's supreme being:

http://i.imgur.com/ojFci99.jpg?1

(There are more examples)

Note: i believe that the IG is potentially capable of affecting all realities, but it hasn't shown to do so. That's why i don't count it.

As for the Infinity War scene, it tells us: "across countless planes..................for the fate of the universe" in the end

http://i.imgur.com/HADIfo8.jpg?1

Actually, i also do believe that those "planes" may refer to universes, given that "plane of existence" was used interchangeably with a universe in the arc. But it's ambiguous, and it may refer to planes within one universe.

Still, Magus with the IG (minus reality gem) was merging the 616 reality with a pocket one. Cool feat.

Mr Master

Originally posted by operator616

^ I don't believe the IG makes one supreme across all realities, Thanos contradicted that claim in the exact same issue when he said that he is this reality's supreme being:

(There are more examples)
I have other examples too.
Although, where in that scan does Thanos say he is not supreme of other universes?
Just cause he's referring to the universe at hand, doesn't discount what he's said other times.

And his beyond universal feat proves it's not just this reality.
Originally posted by operator616

As for the Infinity War scene

Actually, i also do believe that those "planes" may refer to universes, given that "plane of existence" was used interchangeably with a universe in the arc.

But it's ambiguous, and it may refer to planes within one universe.
It's not ambiguous at all my friend,
when we see Dr Strange noting it's after-affects like 1000 years in the Future:

(Dr Strange ... leaving Alternate Universe 691)

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17497899_Alternate_Futures.jpg

"A series of Time Ripples ... a residual effect left over from the Infinity War"

(the only time countless universes were possibly affected was Warlock vs Magus)
Originally posted by operator616

Still, Magus with the IG (minus reality gem) was merging the 616 reality with a pocket one. Cool feat.
"pocket?" ... On Panel it was a duplicate 616 Universe that 5 CCUs had created from scratch.

operator616

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have other examples too.
Although, where in that scan does Thanos say he is not supreme of other universes?
Just cause he's referring to the universe at hand, doesn't discount what he's said other times.

And his beyond universal feat proves it's not just this reality.

he says that he's only supreme in 1 reality, contradicting his prior claim.

His beyond universal feat proves that it's capable of multi-universal feats, not that he's supreme across all realities, imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master

It's not ambiguous at all my friend,
when we see Dr Strange noting it's after-affects like 1000 years in the Future:

(Dr Strange ... leaving Alternate Universe 691)

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17497899_Alternate_Futures.jpg

"A series of Time Ripples ... a residual effect left over from the Infinity War"

(the only time countless universes were possibly affected was Warlock vs Magus)

Well aware of that scene (GOTG v1 #33), and nowhere does it mention that it's Warlock vs Magus.

Originally posted by Mr Master

"pocket?" ... On Panel it was a duplicate 616 Universe that 5 CCUs had created from scratch.

It's been confirmed in the handbook. Let me know if you need the proof. Not that it matters at all, because that pocket was completely separate from 616.

Mr Master

Originally posted by operator616

he says that he's only supreme in 1 reality, contradicting his prior claim.
I disagree. Since he never says anything about other universes.
Originally posted by operator616

His beyond universal feat proves that it's capable of multi-universal feats, not that he's supreme across all realities, imo.
I disagree. Since his wave went Beyond/Outside All There Is (All Eternity) into the Beyond Realm.

To me, it transcended everything within All Eternity.
Originally posted by operator616

Well aware of that scene (GOTG v1 #33), and nowhere does it mention that it's Warlock vs Magus.
So, show us the instance in "Infinity War" where something happened
that could've left 'Ripples in Time' 1000+ Years from "Infinity War's" time.

I have Warlock vs Magus battleing across Countless "Physical Planes" (UniverseS)
and "Astral Planes" damn.
Originally posted by operator616

It's been confirmed in the handbook. Let me know if you need the proof.

because that pocket was completely separate from 616.
If you think a handbook will supersede On Panel truth, you're mistaken my friend.

I gots tons of on panel scans waiting.

Bring it.

I also have on panel Magus being located over 100 UniverseS away from 616.
Which is from where he merged the entire 616 Universe with
another entire Universe which was a duplicate of 616.

Let me know.

Branlor Swift

Originally posted by CatL18
You seem to always say that Marvel Character wins laughing

I didn't know Spectre is weaker than GL Corps laughing

The entire GL Corps is only equal to Superman/Bizarro

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/valhastinypenis1.jpghttp://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/valhastinypenis2.jpg

operator616

@Mr Master: .... i can actually agree that it wasn't a pocket universe (though i can still provide the proof if needed), because it doesn't really matter to me (it was still an independent universe and that's the main point).

But to explain my reasoning behind it (just so you don't think that to me, handbooks > dozens of on panel statements): Fact is, a "pocket universe" is basically a universe, which is why calling it a "universe" doesn't contradict the fact that it's a pocket one. One source which specifies the kind of universe it is (a pocket one), was enough for me to take it as a pocket. (but like i said: it doesn't matter). Just like the Beyond-realm.

Though i am curious......you are sticking to Thanos' one statement in the SS tie-in to prove that he was supreme in all realities, yet you're disregarding the tons of scans (which i can bring up) which have him (and IG in general) as universal (if anything, the whole event seemed universal rather than multiversal, so that should be proof enough). Here's just 1 random example that i recalled from Warlock & the infinity watch #10, proves that the IG makes one supreme in one universe/actuality:

http://i.imgur.com/Zd9iRhV.jpg?1

So.......each IG makes one supreme/God of one actuality.

Ill stop with one example, and i dont wanna fill the whole page contradicting thanos' claim that it makes one supreme across all realities. That's just to give us the general idea here. And i am pretty sure that you yourself know that there are other examples.

Now.....im not saying that the IG is universal (i believe it's multi-universal, potentially more), but rather there's more than enough proof to suggest its power is not supreme in all realities.

I never disagreed that Magus was hundred universes/dimensions away, that was stated on panel, and it's a fact. smile

Galan007

The IG was definitely portrayed as universal during the main IG series, imo-- one statement does not contradict multiple statements, nor does it contradict what we saw happen on panel. During Infinity War, however, it was shown to have influence across hundreds of universes, but even hundreds of universes don't represent even the smallest micro-fraction of the multiverse's totality(ie. infinite universes), so yeah...

I have also never been of the opinion that the actuality ripple Thanos released(shown in detail during Warlock & the Infinity Watch #4) is quite as uber as some believe, either. The 'ripples' caused by Thanos' actions within the 616 reality spread outward until they reached the Beyonders' realm-- like throwing a rock into a swimming pool: you throw a rock on one side of the pool, and eventually it will disrupt the water on the other side(as well as everything in between.) However, Thanos certainly didn't mean for this to occur-- it simply happened inadvertently as a result of his tantrum within one reality... That's how I took it, at least.

Anywho, given that I've argued these topics ad nauseam in the past, I don't care to do so again here-- although I do agree that 'multi-universal' is the term that fits the 'classic' IG best.

leonidas

Originally posted by Galan007
The IG was definitely portrayed as universal during the main IG series, imo-- one statement does not contradict multiple statements, nor does it contradict what we saw happen on panel. During Infinity War, however, it was shown to have influence across hundreds of universes, but even hundreds of universes don't represent even the smallest micro-fraction of the multiverse's totality(ie. infinite universes), so yeah...

I have also never been of the opinion that the actuality ripple Thanos released(shown in detail during Warlock & the Infinity Watch #4) is quite as uber as some believe, either. The 'ripples' caused by Thanos' actions within the 616 reality spread outward until they reached the Beyonders' realm-- like throwing a rock into a swimming pool: you throw a rock on one side of the pool, and eventually it will disrupt the water on the other side(as well as everything in between.) However, Thanos certainly didn't mean for this to occur-- it simply happened inadvertently as a result of his tantrum within one reality... That's how I took it, at least.

Anywho, given that I've argued these topics ad nauseam in the past, I don't care to do so again here-- although I do agree that 'multi-universal' is the term that fits the 'classic' IG best.

pretty much thumb up

to this whole thing.

Sundipped

Originally posted by Galan007
The 'ripples' caused by Thanos' actions within the 616 reality spread outward until they reached the Beyonders' realm-- like throwing a rock into a swimming pool: you throw a rock on one side of the pool, and eventually it will disrupt the water on the other side(as well as everything in between.) However, Thanos certainly didn't mean for this to occur-- it simply happened inadvertently as a result of his tantrum within one reality... That's how I took it, at least.

Now imagine if his intentions would have been of a destructive nature.
Ripples have also been shown produced by the gems in Black September Infinity as a result of a side effect (forcible seperation). Those waves were warping multiple realities.

Mr Master

Originally posted by operator616

@Mr Master: .... i can actually agree that it wasn't a pocket universe (though i can still provide the proof if needed), because it doesn't really matter to me (it was still an independent universe and that's the main point).
Cool, so we both understand it was an entire duplicate 616 universe.
The fact that it was independent doesn't add anything imo.

Incomplete IG/Magus merged Two entire UniverseS in an instant. Simple.
Originally posted by operator616

But to explain my reasoning behind it (just so you don't think that to me, handbooks > dozens of on panel statements): Fact is, a "pocket universe" is basically a universe, which is why calling it a "universe" doesn't contradict the fact that it's a pocket one. One source which specifies the kind of universe it is (a pocket one), was enough for me to take it as a pocket. (but like i said: it doesn't matter).
I been knowing the difference between Pockets and full blown Universes for many years now.

But the info is useful for the onlookers I guess.
Originally posted by operator616

Though i am curious......you are sticking to Thanos' one statement in the SS tie-in to prove that he was supreme in all realities, yet you're disregarding the tons of scans (which i can bring up) which have him (and IG in general) as universal (if anything, the whole event seemed universal rather than multiversal, so that should be proof enough). Here's just 1 random example that i recalled from Warlock & the infinity watch #10, proves that the IG makes one supreme in one universe/actuality:

http://i.imgur.com/Zd9iRhV.jpg?1

So.......each IG makes one supreme/God of one actuality.
Actually nah.

In a conversation between Thanos and his doppelganger during Infinity War,
the doppelganger suggests going to Another Universe to get
Another IG and therefore become "God" of that Universe.

Thanos tells em,
"unfortunately I have sentimental attachments to This (616) Reality"

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15944490_Thanos_Not_Supreme_IG.jpg

------------------------------------------------

Interesting,
with an Alternate IG Thanos suggests he wouldn't control 616,
yet,
the with the 616 IG Thanos confidently states:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15944492_Thanos_Supreme_IG.jpg

"The Supreme Being of THIS" (616) "and All UniverseS" (alternates with other IGs)
Originally posted by operator616

Ill stop with one example, and i dont wanna fill the whole page contradicting thanos' claim that it makes one supreme across all realities. That's just to give us the general idea here. And i am pretty sure that you yourself know that there are other examples.

Now.....im not saying that the IG is universal (i believe it's multi-universal, potentially more), but rather there's more than enough proof to suggest its power is not supreme in all realities.
I disagree.
Originally posted by operator616

I never disagreed that Magus was hundred universes/dimensions away, that was stated on panel, and it's a fact.
Well then, you should know that means he performed a multi-universal feat,
from over 100 universeS away.

That was with his Incomplete IG, which was just a taste of Godhood (complete IG)

Mr Master

===================

Thanos with the 616 IG popping out of the 616 Universe
into an Alternate Universe representing the Pre-historic era,
and then he pops into another Alternate Universe
where the Earth has reached its death.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12429414_IG_Time.jpg

--------------------------------------------------

In this scene, Thanos is literally Omni-Present:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12429415_IG_Space.jpg

--------------------------------------------------

Here ... Thanos said he'd been to the "edge of Reality and back"

... and ...

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12429416_IG_Supreme3.jpg

"The birth of a million tomorrows dwells within my hands & heart,
I have nothing to fear"

============================

Considering Thanos could pop into any point in Time he wished,
no past or future Timeline was out of his reach.
Considering Magus/Incomplete IG was able to manipulate multiple entire UniverseS,
while outside 616.

That, coupled with Thanos' comment above plus this below:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12429467_IG_IB1.jpg

"Supreme being of This and All UniverseS"

-------------------------------------------

Imo, clearly this cements the truth about the 616 IG being beyond universal as fact,
and Thanos' comment given weight by what he did on panel right above.

Mr Master

=======================

Here's Thanos back in the Infinity Gauntlet arc, performing his ultimate feat. (aside from stomping all)

=======================

Thanos doesn't know what to do to please Death.

He wiped out half of all life in the Universe, and offered the Universe itself,
and it was not enough.

Oh, the Universe isn't enough biatch?

So ... he decides to take up a notch.

---------------------------------------------------

Thanos let's off an omni-directional "Psychic Wave of Power"
that devastates Reality as it billows outward:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12720470_IG_omni_feat2.jpg

---------------------------------------------------

The "Wave" had already devastated a quarter of the Galaxy and it wasn't even at 2% strength:

---------------------------------------------------

The Wave continues to do its thing:

---------------------------------------------------

Here's undeniable proof,
that Thanos' Wave of devastation boom bashed not only Asgard (located OUTSIDE 616)

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12720474_IG_omni_feat5.jpg

But it also ...

"brought about Inter-Dimensional changes"
and "shifted the Space-Time Continuum."

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12720477_IG_omni_feat6.jpg

===================================

So, there we are, they depicted more destruction
but that should be enuff.

In a later issue off-Tie-In, we learned just how much damage Thanos' Actuality Ripple caused:

Thanos omni-directional psychic wave of power (astral ripple)
that billowed outward of 616 and devastated reality till the ends of the Omniverse,
then proceeded to pass BEYOND the Omniverse and into the Beyond Realm,
where it still continued to devastate reality even OUTSIDE the infinities of creation.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12437792_IG_beyond_Universe_2.jpghttp://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12437793_IG_beyond_Universe_3.jpg

The Beyond Realm.

What is Beyond All of Eternity?
What is the final ascension?
What is Beyond everything?

Where can this place be where All of Eternity "dwindles into insignificance?"

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17500774_BY5-1.jpg

The Beyond Realm. swank

Mr Master

++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Goddess's will was stronger than both Warlock and Magus.
But, it doesn't matter about who was wielding "The Cosmic Egg."

The statement was made with certainty by Starlin!

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/14914085_IG_over_CCU.jpg

Also ... Starlin had the Goddess out to conquer "All Realities" with the 30 CCUs!

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14775598_Goddess1.jpg

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14775599_Goddess2.jpg

Yet Starlin was clear:

"Experience has shown that the CCUs are Nearly all powerful but Not quite!

The Infinity Gems are a FAR More Potent Force."

++++++++++++++++++++++++

As for the IG making one "God" ...

Jim Stalin the Writer/Creator of the IG series claimed Thanos was "God"

Interviewed in "Marvel Age".

Marvel Age is a Marvel title specifically designed to get the intricate details
to stories by the Writers themselves of said stories.

Jim Starlin himself adds:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/14839179_igmakegod2zt8.jpg

"I've done the good side of God and the bad side of God,
I've gone as far as I can with the Infinity Gauntlet"

***********

Remember, the LT can't interfere with the natural order of things.

So if TOAA (Starlin in this instance) decided to make Thanos God, then it is so. smile

++++++++++++++++++++++++

In the Quasar interpretation,
it seems the Ultimate Nullifier's energies engulfed the Magus' stronghold:

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17500658_IG_kills_UN.jpg

This means first the Magus withstood the UN attack, before wiping his ass with it.

Mr Master

Originally posted by operator616

Well aware of that scene (GOTG v1 #33),

and nowhere does it mention that it's Warlock vs Magus.

I found the extra proof to cement my claim:

------------------------------------------------

But when Magus and Warlock struggled over the Incomplete IG, it was a battle across countless universeS:

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17497903_IG_beyond_universe_7.jpg

The effects across countless universeS was still resinating across Time/Space,
Dr Strange noted after leaving Alternate Reality 691: (over 1000 years in the Future)

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17497899_Alternate_Futures.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the extra evidence:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet missing the reality gem was
devastating Reality when Magus and Adam clashed for control of it.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14905928_igmaguswarlockcosmicclash.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14905961_igmaguswarlockcosmicclash1.jpg

After Eternity//Infinity joined the battle,
Galactus and company couldn't outrace the ripple effect caused by this.
In fact, the farther the blast radiated, it picked up in velocity.

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17501107_GG.jpg

Imo, this is definitely the reason behind the Time ripples 1000+ Years later.

Galan007

Originally posted by Sundipped
Now imagine if his intentions would have been of a destructive nature. I'd rather not play guessing games. /shrug

Originally posted by Sundipped
Ripples have also been shown produced by the gems in Black September Infinity as a result of a side effect (forcible seperation). Those waves were warping multiple realities. I am aware. Hence 'multi-universal'.

quanchi112

Originally posted by CatL18
It doesn't mean Thanos wins. It just shows the hypocrisy of this poster. Thanos wins due to the abilities and feats of the ig.

smile

Sundipped

Originally posted by Galan007
I'd rather not play guessing games. /shrug

Well we saw what only a "psychic" wave was able to accomplish. Safe to say if Thanos really put out using other abilities other or in conjunction with the psychic one he displayed, it would be more potent.

abhilegend

Originally posted by operator616
Currently? Yes. the one Thanos originally wielded, was more.

Apart from statements in IG, we didn't see any feats. Though later on in Warlock and the Infinity Watch #4, we learn that Thanos performed a trans-universal feat, with it (managed to affect the realm of the Beyonders which is far away from Earth-616).

Avengers/Ultraforce, yes that was Nemesis (the being from which the infinity gems came), though perhaps not in the sense you're thinking of. We also learn later in Black September Infinity, that the Nemesis Waves were capable of threatening all realities. And in All new Exiles Infinity, the part of Nemesis energy is shown to have multi-universal effects as well.
Current IG IS the IG Thanos wielded.

DTM

Id pick Thanos with the IG (at its peak power) over pretty much anyone. The IG in its prime was only this close from GOD himself.

Mr Master

Originally posted by Galan007

I am aware. Hence 'multi-universal'.
'multi-universal' ... you say, the complete IG was.

That's cool, it's your opinion, but I do have a question.
Now 'multi' is more than one, if you had to guess, how many you think?

When the Incomplete IG operated in "Countless UniverseS?"
Originally posted by Sundipped

Well we saw what only a "psychic" wave was able to accomplish. Safe to say if Thanos really put out using other abilities or in conjunction with the psychic one he displayed, it would be more potent.
thumb up

... Although it already had reached beyond All Eternity, (Beyond Realm). Guess they want more still.
Originally posted by abhilegend

Current IG IS the IG Thanos wielded.
no expression

... Current IG is all powerful but it's scale of influence restricted to its native reality.

---------------------------------------------

Incomplete IG: (a few feats in my mind)

1)simultaneous omnipresence across many universes,
2)merged Two entire universeS (one being 616) from over 100 universeS away,
3)tanked and owned the UN with a thought,
4)jumping around the Time-stream (alternate Timelines) with a thought,

And the Incomplete IG was just a "taste of Godhood"

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17503017_Incomplete_IG_Taste.jpg

... "just a taste" ... while what Thanos had (complete IG) gave him a mouth full of Godhood:

Galan007

Originally posted by Mr Master
'multi-universal' ... you say, the complete IG was. Yep. As in more than one, but less than infinite.

operator616

Originally posted by Sundipped
Now imagine if his intentions would have been of a destructive nature.
Ripples have also been shown produced by the gems in Black September Infinity as a result of a side effect (forcible seperation). Those waves were warping multiple realities.

Later in All New Exiles Infinity, the part of Nemesis' energy was ending reality and had multi-universal effects as well:

http://i.imgur.com/x2GhSZB.jpg

..........

http://i.imgur.com/bUIcmEN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lnqvmxa.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool, so we both understand it was an entire duplicate 616 universe.
The fact that it was independent doesn't add anything imo.

Incomplete IG/Magus merged Two entire UniverseS in an instant. Simple.

thumb up

Yup. Never said otherwise.

IG (minus reality gem) Magus merged 2 independent universes in an instant. Simple.

Originally posted by Mr Master

I been knowing the difference between Pockets and full blown Universes for many years now.

But the info is useful for the onlookers I guess.

I know that you're aware of their meaning. Which is why i wasn't explaining the meaning, but rather explaining my reasoning behind my claims of it being a pocket universe. Go re-read my post carefully to understand.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Actually nah.

In a conversation between Thanos and his doppelganger during Infinity War,
the doppelganger suggests going to Another Universe to get
Another IG and therefore become "God" of that Universe.

Thanos tells em,
"unfortunately I have sentimental attachments to This (616) Reality"

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15944490/Thanos_Not_Supreme_IG.jpg.html
------------------------------------------------

Interesting,
with an Alternate IG Thanos suggests he wouldn't control 616,
yet,
the with the 616 IG Thanos confidently states:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15944492/Thanos_Supreme_IG.jpg.html

"The Supreme Being of THIS" (616) "and All UniverseS" (alternates with other IGs)
)

Warlock & the infinity Watch #10 is part of Infinity War........

Anyway, not sure what you're teaching me here, because im the one who presented this scan, and i read it just fine myself.

I agree, it's interesting how Thanos' claim in SS v3 #44 is contradicted by the scene i posted.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Well then, you should know that means he performed a multi-universal feat,
from over 100 universeS away.

That was with his Incomplete IG, which was just a taste of Godhood (complete IG)

I already know. Which is why i wasn't arguing about it. You're free to quote me when i said otherwise.

operator616

Originally posted by Mr Master
===================

Thanos with the 616 IG popping out of the 616 Universe
into an Alternate Universe representing the Pre-historic era,
and then he pops into another Alternate Universe
where the Earth has reached its death.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12429414/IG_Time.jpg.html

In this scene, Thanos is literally Omni-Present:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12429415/IG_Space.jpg.html

============================

Considering Thanos could pop into any point in Time he wished,
no past or future Timeline was out of his reach.
Considering Magus/Incomplete IG was able to manipulate multiple entire UniverseS,
while outside 616.

Ah......Thanos utilizing the time gem; im sure Starlin intended Thanos to be hopping across alternate universes........

Though tell me something; the current IG has a time gem as well, and does this prevent it from being limited to its native reality? No it doesn't (New Avengers v3 #2):

http://i.imgur.com/XY8zcOK.jpg?1

It's been confirmed several times, you know......

So going by your logic, current IG should be not limited to one universe, because well, there's always the time gem which can make you pop across alternate universes.

Yeah, Thanos' beyond universal feat is very impressive, but it only proves that he can affect multiple realities, not that it cements his one statement which has been contradicted dozens of times (saying that he is universal). I already posted the scan in which he says in the same issue that he's supreme within one reality.

And im not even saying that the IG isn't capable of such a feat, just that your interpretation of the scene is incorrect, imo.

Not sure how Thanos/space gem, being in multiple places at once is impressive.

....Also, i take it that according to you, all realities = omniverse?

Originally posted by Mr Master

So, there we are, they depicted more destruction
but that should be enuff.

In a later issue off-Tie-In, we learned just how much damage Thanos' Actuality Ripple caused:

Thanos omni-directional psychic wave of power (astral ripple)
that billowed outward of 616 and devastated reality till the ends of the Omniverse,
then proceeded to pass BEYOND the Omniverse and into the Beyond Realm,
where it still continued to devastate reality even OUTSIDE the infinities of creation.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12437792/IG_beyond_Universe_2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12437793/IG_beyond_Universe_3.jpg.html

The Beyond Realm.

What is Beyond All of Eternity?
What is the final ascension?
What is Beyond everything?

Where can this place be where All of Eternity "dwindles into insignificance?"

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17500774/BY5-1.jpg.html

The Beyond Realm.

So, the realm of the Beyonders are beyond the omniverse now. Okay, let's look at the evidence.

First off, when you claim that the Beyonders' universe is beyond the omniverse you're also acknowledging that Kubik and Kosmos are capable of getting there by themselves (much like Thanos' IG power reached the universe).

Then again, a 2006 handbook says that the Kubik/Kosmos tour was across the multiverse:

http://i.imgur.com/pxn6PVB.jpg?1

.......and one of the universes Kubik/Kosmos visited during their little tour in Fantastic Four Annual #23, was the realm of the Beyonders. So we know that Beyonders' universe, must be located within the mainstream multiverse. Which also makes sense, because i find it hard to believe that Kubik/Kosmos can travel outside the omniverse. Though it is most certainly far away from Earth-616, possibly at the very ends of the multiverse, considering that their universe bare no similarities to 616 and its alternates.

It's a handbook, but it's better than nothing, no? Because claiming that the realm of Beyonders is beyond the omnniverse is literally based on nothing (no offense, but......that's the truth)

Also, we have High Evolutionary visit the museum of the Beyonders in their own universe (going outside the omniverse itself, apparently, even though evidently, there was still stars/planets just like any regular universe), HE/Beyonders handbooks:

http://i.imgur.com/Jog7wfA.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/I9Uu3Wp.jpg?1

on panel, from Avengers Annual #17:

http://i.imgur.com/g1EtjeS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2QSyBK4.jpg

Seems also like normal space, certainly not beyond the omniverse, imo.

So tell me, do you acknowledge that HE, Kubik and Kosmos can travel beyond the omniverse???

Also, i know that there isn't an issue saying that the Beyonders realm is beyond the omniverse, so puttiing that aside........are you really basing this off the fact that Eternity dwindles into insignificance?
So that means you think that Eternity is the embodiment of the omniverse according to you? Which is......just wrong (isn't debatable), and you know it.

operator616

Originally posted by Mr Master
++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Goddess's will was stronger than both Warlock and Magus.
But, it doesn't matter about who was wielding "The Cosmic Egg."

The statement was made with certainty by Starlin!

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14914085/IG_over_CCU.jpg.html

Also ... Starlin had the Goddess out to conquer "All Realities" with the 30 CCUs!

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14775598/Goddess1.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14775599/Goddess2.jpg.html

Yet Starlin was clear:

"Experience has shown that the CCUs are Nearly all powerful but Not quite!

The Infinity Gems are a FAR More Potent Force."

Hmm.........

i remember in that same arc, in Warlock chronicles #3 (Written by Starlin as well), it's stated that a cosmic cube is as all powerful as the infinity gems used in unison:

http://i.imgur.com/4VETzD6.jpg

..........just saying smile

In any case, it sure does support your argument, but not enough, imo. Because there are far more evidence saying that Thanos was supreme across one reality.

Originally posted by Mr Master

As for the IG making one "God" ...

Jim Stalin the Writer/Creator of the IG series claimed Thanos was "God"

Interviewed in "Marvel Age".

Marvel Age is a Marvel title specifically designed to get the intricate details
to stories by the Writers themselves of said stories.

Jim Starlin himself adds:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14839179/igmakegod2zt8.jpg.html

"I've done the good side of God and the bad side of God,
I've gone as far as I can with the Infinity Gauntlet"

***********

Remember, the LT can't interfere with the natural order of things.

So if TOAA (Starlin in this instance) decided to make Thanos God, then it is so. smile

.........Thanos was called God many times, as you know. So that Marvel Age interview isn't teaching us something new.

On another note though here's a Marvel age issue which says: Thanos was the supreme being in the universe:

http://i.imgur.com/dshi1ej.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/XGAtVqW.jpg?1

"Dominate a dimension"..........??

That's from Marvel Age #99, after Starlin's silver surfer run (or at least issue #44) prior to IG (where Thanos' "supreme in all universes" claim happened).........interesting, no?

So yeah, i agree that Thanos is "God".......on a universal scale, capable of affecting multiple realities.
Of course, anyone who read the arc could go on and post a dozen of scans confirming that. Let's see; it's stated dozens of times on panel, confirmed in the handbooks, encyclopedias, indexes, interviews, guides, you name it........yet, we have to stick to Thanos' one claim?

Well sorry, but i hope you can see why i don't agree with you.

And like i said before, if anything the fact that it was a universal event as opposed to a multiversal one, should be proof enough. The "Beyond universal" feat that Thanos had was (as you know) from Warlock & the infinity watch #4, which wasn't even a tie-in......Warlock & The Infinity Watch began after IG.

Also, not sure how the UN showing, is multiversal?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I found the extra proof to cement my claim:

Imo, this is definitely the reason behind the Time ripples 1000+ Years later.

Perhaps. Though there's no confirmation. But in any case, affecting the future doesn't prove that it's fully multiversal in scope. Recently in ultimate comics ultimatum, Kang (invisible woman of this reality), was going to save that alt. Earth's future with the Infinity Gems (which are limited to their native reality):

http://i.imgur.com/zj9GP6m.jpg

So.....

operator616

Originally posted by abhilegend
Current IG IS the IG Thanos wielded.

IG Thanos had confirmed multi-universal feat, so IG's current standing is completely irrelevant.

Sundipped

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet missing the reality gem was
devastating Reality when Magus and Adam clashed for control of it.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14905928_igmaguswarlockcosmicclash.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14905961_igmaguswarlockcosmicclash1.jpg

After Eternity//Infinity joined the battle,
Galactus and company couldn't outrace the ripple effect caused by this.
In fact, the farther the blast radiated, it picked up in velocity.

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17501107_GG.jpg

That's eerie similar to a post that I made in that massive IG vs Dawn of Time Anti Monitor thread a while back.

Originally posted by Sundipped
^^
Also, the Gauntlet missing the reality gem was devastating the reality indirectly when Magus and Adam clashed for control of it.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14905928_igmaguswarlockcosmicclash.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14905961_igmaguswarlockcosmicclash1.jpg

Galactus and company couldn't outrace the ripple effect caused by this. In fact, the farther the blast radiated, it picked up in velocity.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14906079_igmaguswarlockcosmicclash5_zps53155a56.jpg

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/whoa-dude.gif

What a coincidence. mmm

Sundipped

To be fair, that scan states that the cubes do in fact have limitations. It takes billions of souls bound together to overcome these limitations which are due to having force of will. So in essence, one needs prep with CCs to reach the unrestricted might of the IG in its totality.

Originally posted by operator616
Later in All New Exiles Infinity, the part of Nemesis' energy was ending reality and had multi-universal effects as well:

http://i.imgur.com/x2GhSZB.jpg

..........

http://i.imgur.com/bUIcmEN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lnqvmxa.jpg

thumb up

Mr Master

Originally posted by Galan007

Yep. As in more than one, but less than infinite.
But G, Incomplete IG operated across infinite universeS while Warlock & Magus struggled.

So ... how can the complete IG be anything less?

Galan007

Originally posted by Mr Master
But G, Incomplete IG operated across infinite universeS while Warlock & Magus struggled.

So ... how can the complete IG be anything less? I don't think a single use of the word "countless" is enough to solidify the IG as a true multiversal artifact, given the slew evidence that puts it in the multi-universal class. /shrug

Feel free to disagree with me(I'm sure you do), but you won't be changing my mind on that subject-- just like I won't be changing yours. So I don't really care to continue debating about it.

Branlor Swift

Didn't Eternity and Infinity kick the Christ out of Magus when he had the (incomplete) IG?

operator616

^ Something like that...

Originally posted by Sundipped
To be fair, that scan states that the cubes do in fact have limitations. It takes billions of souls bound together to overcome these limitations which are due to having force of will. So in essence, one needs prep with CCs to reach the unrestricted might of the IG in its totality.

Well, yeah it does require enough "will" to be on par with the infinity gems; doesn't change the fact that it's potentially capable of doing that, though.

Mr Master

Originally posted by operator616
Later in All New Exiles Infinity, the part of Nemesis' energy was ending reality and had multi-universal effects as well:
http://i.imgur.com/x2GhSZB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bUIcmEN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lnqvmxa.jpg
thumb up

I always felt that Juggy scene depicts possibly the Omniverse being flipped.
If not, at-least the the two multiverseS involved in this story: (Prime and Ultraverse)

It shows that the final Wave remade even UniverseS
that exist Between Realities, like the Crimson Cosmos:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16039031_N_Waves1.jpg

"This World between Worlds ...
a Wave of energy unknown suddenly sweeps across him
from Everywhere and Nowhere at once ...

... through All That Is or Ever Was ... As Reality ends."

-------------------------------------------------------

The IG's power (Nemesis) had already performed a multi-Multiversal feat:

Evidently after Nemesis obliterated the entire 616 Universe & the entire Ultraverse Universe,
she tried to create a small reality with parts from both UniverseS,
but since the Gems were hampering her, she was losing control,
because of this, Nemesis' power also broke down the walls between all realities.

Which lead to ALL Realities merging! (those belonging to the Prime Multiverse and Ultraverse Multiverse)

"Nemesis is still tinkering with Reality, and All the Walls have fallen down"

"Whatever -- Alternate versions of UltraForce & Avengers are coming from everywhere"

I submit, I don't think this was a pre-mediated act on Nemesis' part
but rather a consequence of her continuing to create withIN the Ultraverse.

But, this madness of infinities of meshed UniverseS had to get fixed right?
The only power that put everything back was Nemesis' Creative Energies/Force at the end.

It's annoying that the writer didn't include that specific.
Originally posted by operator616
IG (minus reality gem) Magus merged 2 independent universes in an instant. Simple.
thumb up

Originally posted by operator616
I know that you're aware of their meaning. Which is why i wasn't explaining the meaning, but rather explaining my reasoning behind my claims of it being a pocket universe. Go re-read my post carefully to understand.
There's nothing really for me to understand though friend. If you're saying is was a 'pocket,' then I disagree.
Originally posted by operator616
Warlock & the infinity Watch #10 is part of Infinity War........
Anyway, not sure what you're teaching me here, because im the one who presented this scan, and i read it just fine myself.
I agree, it's interesting how Thanos' claim in SS v3 #44 is contradicted by the scene i posted.
I didn't rebuke anything concerning W&IW#10?

Anyway, wasn't trying to teach ya, just highlighting my perspective.
You may have posted it yesterday, but I posted that scan years ago, several times.
(I can get ya links)

So yea, I really did enjoy how Starlin differentiates the potential of an Alternate IG, with the 616 IG.
Originally posted by operator616
I already know. Which is why i wasn't arguing about it.
Sweet.

Mr Master

Originally posted by operator616
Ah......Thanos utilizing the time gem; im sure Starlin intended Thanos to be hopping across alternate universes........
Though tell me something; the current IG has a time gem as well, and does this prevent it from being limited to its native reality? No it doesn't (New Avengers v3 #2):
http://i.imgur.com/XY8zcOK.jpg?1
It's been confirmed several times, you know......
So going by your logic, current IG should be not limited to one universe, because well, there's always the time gem which can make you pop across alternate universes.
This has nothing to do with the classic IG I'm discussing.

So, no need for me to go into a side debate.

It doesn't interest me what the New Retconned IG can and cannot do concerning Starlin's IG.
Originally posted by operator616
Yeah, Thanos' beyond universal feat is very impressive, but it only proves that he can affect multiple realities, not that it cements his one statement which has been contradicted dozens of times (saying that he is universal). I already posted the scan in which he says in the same issue that he's supreme within one reality. your interpretation of the scene is incorrect, imo.
I disagree.

Thanos never ever said his supremacy was limited or constricted, like we've heard about the new Retconned IG.

Anyway, Any Timeline was accessible to Thanos' IG with a thought: (he jumped across Two extremes)

Heck, even Incomplete IG/Magus had equal access to other periods in Time outside 616:

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17506862_IG_beyond_universe_4.jpg

I know you don't believe Starlin didn't know Dinos were extint. (obliviously an alternate-earth)
Originally posted by operator616
So, the realm of the Beyonders are beyond the omniverse now. Okay, let's look at the evidence.
First off, when you claim that the Beyonders' universe is beyond the omniverse you're also acknowledging that Kubik and Kosmos are capable of getting there by themselves (much like Thanos' IG power reached the universe).
Then again, a 2006 handbook says that the Kubik/Kosmos tour was across the multiverse:
http://i.imgur.com/pxn6PVB.jpg?1
Good ol' handbooks. They did tour the Multiverse, and Beyond the Multiverse too.
Did you really think the artist was going to illustrate more? (they gave us a general idea)

Kaminski only had 10 Pages to work with son, (it was a back story)
to explain the feakin Marvel Universe in 10 pages ... not easy.
Shit's gonna be left out ... of course!

Dude, you should know, that the term "omniverse" is seldom used,
and most stories ignore it all together making the Multiverse/s all there is.
Also, Kaminski has never used the term, "omniverse" anyway that I know of.
He'll use the phrase ... "infinite multiverses," but that's it.

But that aside ....

Kaminski highlighted the knowledge of "Other MultiverseS" via Kubik:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Kaminski also told us that All There IS, including the LT, who operates in all MultiverseS simultaneously, is all withIN Eternity:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then Kaminski has Kubik/Kosmos exit, All There IS ... and the final
Ascension is the Beyond Realm, OUTSIDE All Eternity: (All There Is)

There's nothing left beyond the Beyond Realm, except to return to "All There IS" (Eternity/infinity)

Next to the Beyond Realm (Beyonders) ... All There IS (All Eternity/Infinity) is an insignificant speck.

So, how in the hell did you interpret this as a reality withIN Eternity? no expression

Originally posted by operator616
.......and one of the universes Kubik/Kosmos visited during their little tour in Fantastic Four Annual #23, was the realm of the Beyonders. So we know that Beyonders' universe, must be located within the mainstream multiverse.
That's not true. ... Proven right above, or below. Kubik/Kosmos were outside All There IS (Eternity)

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17507344_Eternity_exit3.jpg
Originally posted by operator616
It's a handbook, but it's better than nothing, no? Because claiming that the realm of Beyonders is beyond the omnniverse is literally based on nothing
"Handbook" you say, "better than nothing?" ... Perhaps, but there's something more.

Interesting. I have a "handbook" too, it's updated nearly Two years after yours was published.

Well, ... Marvunapp agrees with me that its Beyond the Multiverse!

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/beyondersw.htm

(scroll down to the middle where the Kubik/Shaper/CCU pic is at, under FF-Annual I#23/3)

"Kubik welcomed her and led her on a tour of the universe, the multiverse and beyond, showing how it all cycled in a full circle."

smile

Further down the page below "Clarifications" they confirm what I already knew ...
... Beyonders' universe (Beyond Realm) is OUTSIDE the Multiverse!

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/beyondersw.htm

"Beyonders, enigmatic race outside of the mulitverse"

Mr Master

Originally posted by operator616
Also, we have High Evolutionary visit the museum of the Beyonders in their own universe (going outside the omniverse itself, apparently, even though evidently, there was still stars/planets just like any regular universe), HE/Beyonders handbooks:
http://i.imgur.com/Jog7wfA.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/I9Uu3Wp.jpg?1
on panel, from Avengers Annual #17:
http://i.imgur.com/g1EtjeS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2QSyBK4.jpg
Seems also like normal space, certainly not beyond the omniverse, imo.
Handbooks ... Handbooks which give info doubt:

"Apparently the HE visited their dimension if he was their "museum."

That bone-head handbook writer doesn't even know HE went insane from the magnificence he witnessed and it had nothing at all with HE trying to comprehend the Beyonders or their realm.

Also, I may have to go back to those books
but I remember this planetary display was at the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy.
Yea, that was a "sector of space" in the Milky Way Galaxy the Beyonders were using to display their collection:

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17507629_Beyonders_space_sector.jpg

Also, one of the he base of operations of the "Movers of Tarkus" is .. the Milky Way Galaxy:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/sphnxr.htm#Ring

I'll flip some pages though to be sure.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Although, I'm almost sure the Beyonders' arm was all that penetrated into Galaxy,
and the Beyond Realm is outside of the Multiverse. Beyond All There IS!
Originally posted by operator616
So tell me, do you acknowledge that HE, Kubik and Kosmos can travel beyond the omniverse???
I'm not absolutely certain about that. Bt it is my opinion based on other facts.
But I'm 100% certain they can travel outside the prime Multiverse, since they've done it on panel.
Originally posted by operator616
Also, i know that there isn't an issue saying that the Beyonders realm is beyond the omniverse, so puttiing that aside........are you really basing this off the fact that Eternity dwindles into insignificance?
So that means you think that Eternity is the embodiment of the omniverse according to you? Which is......just wrong (isn't debatable), and you know it.
You're better off asking me questions than trying to figure out what's on my mind.

Anyway, my opinion comes from this:

When Dr Doom and the FF went looking for Beyonder's Universe
they passed by the BeyonderS Realm, it was lightless, and void.

When Kubik/Kosmos went into the Beyond Realm (Outside All There IS) it looks like a vast infinite Nothingness:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12726710_Huh.jpg

The TVA dumps parts of realities and entire universeS into the Nothingness "Beyond"
which is at the edge of their headquarters. Which means ... (edge of the omniverse)

Because as we know, the TVA headquarters is as long as the Omniverse,
that's a fact, and they are dumping Realities at the end/edge of their headquarters
through a doorway (door of discontinued universeS) that's Beyond their headquarters that is as long as the Omniverse,
therefore the "door of discontinued universeS" leads to ... Beyond the Omniverse.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12726711_huh2.jpg

Now, yea, I may be wrong ... Interesting though isn't it,
eerily familiar looking to the Beyond Realm too, a white void of nothingness ... labelled .... the "Beyond."

This, coupled with the fact that the Beyond Realm was depicted as being the Final ascendence,
literally outside/beyond All There IS ... where All Eternity/infinity becomes insignificant/infinitesimal,
meh, one has to wonder about the coincidence here.

It also makes sense that this debris or even entire universes are not noticed getting dumped in here,
since even All There Is (All Eternity/Infinity) is an insignificant speck in here.

Just sayin ...

Mr Master

Originally posted by operator616
Hmm.........

i remember in that same arc, in Warlock chronicles #3 (Written by Starlin as well), it's stated that a cosmic cube is as all powerful as the infinity gems used in unison:
http://i.imgur.com/4VETzD6.jpg

..........just saying
But it requires billions of wills to do so.

This is also theoretical, (concerning CCU equating to the IG)
although there's no doubt a CCU can make one god-like.
Originally posted by operator616

.........Thanos was called God many times, as you know. So that Marvel Age interview isn't teaching us something new.
On another note though here's a Marvel age issue which says: Thanos was the supreme being in the universe:
http://i.imgur.com/dshi1ej.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/XGAtVqW.jpg?1
"Dominate a dimension"..........??
That's from Marvel Age #99, after Starlin's silver surfer run (or at least issue #44) prior to IG (where Thanos' "supreme in all universes" claim happened).........interesting, no?
The first link doesn't say shit. The second link states: "Supreme being of the universe."
You enjoy interchanging the term "universe" with all (multiverse and/or more) when it suits you friend.

Anyway ... Starlin (as narrator) also stated this: (on panel)

"Supreme being of This Universe ... and Reality" (differentiating two items there)

http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17507678_Thanos_Supreme_Starlin.jpg

smile

Originally posted by operator616

And like i said before, if anything the fact that it was a universal event as opposed to a multiversal one, should be proof enough. The "Beyond universal" feat that Thanos had was (as you know) from Warlock & the infinity watch #4, which wasn't even a tie-in......Warlock & The Infinity Watch began after IG.
Actually, in the original IG saga, it was portrayed on panel Thanos releasing his psychic wave.
it caused "inter-dimensional changes ... and "shifted the Space-Time Continuum""

I posted the scans already.

We simply didn't know how far reaching these inter-dimensional changes and space-time shift went,
this is where W&IW#4 comes in.

This, is no way takes away from the feat, if that's what your trying to spin now.
Originally posted by operator616

Also, not sure how the UN showing, is multiversal?
I never said it did. Enuff with the circles friend.

I was posting feats, you know, feats that stand out. (you decided to quote & challenge everything I posted)

Anyway, Incomplete IG tanking then owning with a thought the most powerful weapon (UN) was one of em.
Originally posted by operator616

Perhaps. Though there's no confirmation. But in any case, affecting the future doesn't prove that it's fully multiversal in scope. Recently in ultimate comics ultimatum, Kang (invisible woman of this reality), was going to save that alt. Earth's future with the Infinity Gems (which are limited to their native reality):
http://i.imgur.com/zj9GP6m.jpg
So.....
What?

What does this mean, prove or have to do with Warlock/Magus operating across infinite universeS,
and a residual affect of "Time Ripples" lingering afterwards 1000+ Years in the Future?

Also, the effect wasn't situated in the Future, Dr Strange never said that,
it just so happens that Strange was leaving Reality-691 when he noticed.

Dr Strange made it seem like this affect was across all of Time.
(since he never alluded to a limit)

-------------------------------------------------------------

That aside,
your scan makes no sense. I also never read where that came from.
How is that IG able to function in parallel universes,
if it's constricted to its native reality?

What's the plot?

Mr Master

Originally posted by Galan007

I don't think a single use of the word "countless"

is enough to solidify the IG as a true multiversal artifact, given the
slew evidence that puts it in the multi-universal class.
Well, it wasn't just a "word" (empty claim) ... it was a feat, a demonstration of capability,
namely ... operating across Infinite UniverseS during a struggle between Adam and Magus.

That's an Incomplete IG (a taste of the complete IG)

smile

The effects of this Incomplete IG feat involving infinite universeS was felt 1000+ Years in the Future:

Galan007

a.) The exact word used was "countless", not "infinite".
b.) I do not need to prove a negative. If Thanos never acquired a legitimate multiversal feat with the IG, then he never acquired a legitimate multiversal feat with the IG. Simple. Speculating what you think he might have been able to do based on the verbiage used in a single scan/panel from an unrelated arc is an overtly faulty line of logic, imo.
c.) See Bran's post. If an incomplete IG is a multiversal power(iyo), it means that Eternity/Infinity would be >> a multiversal power, given that they ultimately beat Magus. Suffice to say, I disagree.

Anywho, you can clutch onto that one word/panel if you want to. As I said, I could care less about this topic-- I'm really just not interested. So yeah, you can have the last word. thumb up

Mr Master

Originally posted by Galan007

a.) The exact word used was "countless", not "infinite".
b.) I do not need to prove a negative. If Thanos never acquired a legitimate multiversal feat with the IG, then he never acquired a legitimate multiversal feat with the IG. Simple. Speculating what you think he might have been able to do based on the verbiage used in a single scan/panel is an overtly faulty line of logic, imo.
c.) See Bran's post. If an incomplete IG is a multiversal power(iyo), it means that Eternity/Infinity would be >> a multiversal power, given that they ultimately beat Magus. So yeah, I disagree.
a) Interesting. What does "countless" mean?

b) I never said the Incomplete IG was multiversal, I said what's been proven on panel,
it operated across Countless UniverseS, and did other things aside from that.
Based on this though, Complete IG has to be far more, than "countless" is?

c) That was Eternity/Infinity merged (all of space-time-matter) as one,
attacking Magus, after Magus had just struggled with Warlock across an infinitude of universeS.

Heck, Warlock even waited for the right moment.

Evidently, Eternity/Infinity merged were more powerful at that point after Magus' struggling with Adam.
Although imo, Eternity/Infinity merged > Incomplete IG.
Originally posted by Galan007

Anywho, you can clutch onto that one word/panel if you want to. I could care less.
Anywho, I'm clutching on to on panel evidence. So I also could care less.

operator616

Originally posted by Mr Master

I always felt that Juggy scene depicts possibly the Omniverse being flipped.
If not, at-least the the two multiverseS involved in this story: (Prime and Ultraverse)

It shows that the final Wave remade even UniverseS
that exist Between Realities, like the Crimson Cosmos:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16039031/N_Waves1.jpg.html

"This World between Worlds ...
a Wave of energy unknown suddenly sweeps across him
from Everywhere and Nowhere at once ...

... through All That Is or Ever Was ... As Reality ends."

-------------------------------------------------------

The IG's power (Nemesis) had already performed a multi-Multiversal feat:

Evidently after Nemesis obliterated the entire 616 Universe & the entire Ultraverse Universe,
she tried to create a small reality with parts from both UniverseS,
but since the Gems were hampering her, she was losing control,
because of this, Nemesis' power also broke down the walls between all realities.

Which lead to ALL Realities merging! (those belonging to the Prime Multiverse and Ultraverse Multiverse)

"Nemesis is still tinkering with Reality, and All the Walls have fallen down"

"Whatever -- Alternate versions of UltraForce & Avengers are coming from everywhere"

I submit, I don't think this was a pre-mediated act on Nemesis' part
but rather a consequence of her continuing to create withIN the Ultraverse.

But, this madness of infinities of meshed UniverseS had to get fixed right?
The only power that put everything back was Nemesis' Creative Energies/Force at the end.

It's annoying that the writer didn't include that specific.

Actually, the Crimson Cosmos exists inside the gem of cyttorak, here's Jean along with Scott getting pulled into the gem, and end up in the Crimson Cosmos, back in Uncanny X Men #33:

http://i.imgur.com/1y10rfb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7u7r8bP.jpg

It's been confirmed several times (including the handbook), though i recall something different during Infinity War, regarding the Crimson Cosmos

Moving on:

I disagree, because the term "omniverse" has to be referenced for me to consider it an omniversal feat. Unless there's heavy context alluding to it being omniversal (like in the case of Owen/Beyonder). This isn't the case here. Sure, it dealt with 2 multiverses, but there's no confirmation at all of it being omniversal.....or even 2 multiverses for that matter.

So, you're saying that Nemesis remade 2 multiverses in the end? I disagree, that wasn't mentioned. Also, the 1990s Marvel legacy handbook outright says: in that other multiverse........Nemesis wrecked havoc across 2 dimensions (universes). Let me know if you need the proof.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Anyway, wasn't trying to teach ya, just highlighting my perspective.
You may have posted it yesterday, but I posted that scan years ago, several times.
(I can get ya links)

So yea, I really did enjoy how Starlin differentiates the potential of an Alternate IG, with the 616 IG.

Alright. Ill take your word for it, i didn't know you posted it before.

Don't think so. Starlin was trying to say that each IG makes one supreme in one reality, imo. He may have began the event intending it to be multiverse (with that Silver Surfer issue), but certainly didn't follow up on that statement, afterwards.

operator616

Originally posted by Mr Master
This has nothing to do with the classic IG I'm discussing.

So, no need for me to go into a side debate.

It doesn't interest me what the New Retconned IG can and cannot do concerning Starlin's IG.

I disagree.

Thanos never ever said his supremacy was limited or constricted, like we've heard about the new Retconned IG.

Anyway, Any Timeline was accessible to Thanos' IG with a thought: (he jumped across Two extremes)

Heck, even Incomplete IG/Magus had equal access to other periods in Time outside 616:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17506862/IG_beyond_universe_4.jpg.html

I know you don't believe Starlin didn't know Dinos were extint. (obliviously an alternate-earth)

But it has everything to do with the classic IG. Current IG -- just like the classic -- has a time gem (which can make one pop into different time-periods), and yet its limited to its native reality. See, i told you that time-periods = alternate realities, is not always used by all the writers, and i already proved it in another thread.

Do you see me arguing that the IG is incapable of accessing other time-periods? Because i thought i made it quite clear that it does. Im arguing that this wasn't intended to be an alternate earth just like in the case of Sise-Neg which you brought up a while ago. So, I am not arguing that Thanos couldn't do that, merely saying that your interpretation of that scan, imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Good ol' handbooks. They did tour the Multiverse, and Beyond the Multiverse too.
Did you really think the artist was going to illustrate more? (they gave us a general idea)

Kaminski only had 10 Pages to work with son, (it was a back story)
to explain the feakin Marvel Universe in 10 pages ... not easy.
Shit's gonna be left out ... of course!

Dude, you should know, that the term "omniverse" is seldom used,
and most stories ignore it all together making the Multiverse/s all there is.
Also, Kaminski has never used the term, "omniverse" anyway that I know of.
He'll use the phrase ... "infinite multiverses," but that's it.

But that aside ....

Kaminski highlighted the knowledge of "Other MultiverseS" via Kubik:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Kaminski also told us that All There IS, including the LT, who operates in all MultiverseS simultaneously, is all withIN Eternity:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then Kaminski has Kubik/Kosmos exit, All There IS ... and the final
Ascension is the Beyond Realm, OUTSIDE All Eternity: (All There Is)

There's nothing left beyond the Beyond Realm, except to return to "All There IS" (Eternity/infinity)

Next to the Beyond Realm (Beyonders) ... All There IS (All Eternity/Infinity) is an insignificant speck.

So, how in the hell did you interpret this as a reality withIN Eternity?

That's not true. ... Proven right above, or below. Kubik/Kosmos were outside All There IS (Eternity)

"Handbook" you say, "better than nothing?" ... Perhaps, but there's something more.

Interesting. I have a "handbook" too, it's updated nearly Two years after yours was published.

Well, ... Marvunapp agrees with me that its Beyond the Multiverse!

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/beyondersw.htm

(scroll down to the middle where the Kubik/Shaper/CCU pic is at, under FF-Annual I#23/3)

"Kubik welcomed her and led her on a tour of the universe, the multiverse and beyond, showing how it all cycled in a full circle."

Further down the page below "Clarifications" they confirm what I already knew ...
... Beyonders' universe (Beyond Realm) is OUTSIDE the Multiverse!

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/beyondersw.htm

"Beyonders, enigmatic race outside of the mulitverse"

Yeah, i already know that the term omniverse is rarely used (though there are a few exceptions, like Captain Britain/Exiles), and i also know that some writers aren't aware of the term (or perhaps don't care for it). And "multiverses" (plural), is used just as rarely as the term "omniverse". "Multiverse" (singular) is the most frequently used term out of all three.......this is common knowledge. This is why trans-multiversal feats are so rare, and that's what differentiates trans multiversal beings from mere multiversal. Because for a certain character to achieve such feats you should have a writer aware/mention those terms in a comic.

Also, Kaminski was one of the writers of the OHOTMU Master Edition (vol. 3), up until issue #18, and here's a reference to the omniverse from issue #15 (Saturnyne's entry) of the handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/81yEXEC.jpg?1

That means he's aware of the term, imo.

Also i take back my statement that the Beyonders' universe is within the mainstream multiverse, not because of your marvunapp bios but i recalled a statement of Kubik's from FF annual #26.

We both know that Kaminski is aware of multiple multiverseS, you posted a scan of Kubik from Fantastic Four Annual #23, and here's Kubik hinting that the realm of the Beyonders (which he along with Kosmos visited back in issue #23), is beyond the multiverse:

http://i.imgur.com/8XLUiEP.jpg?1

"outside the multiverse entirely, perhaps even from the realm of those unknown beyonders'

Though it should be noted: Kaminski hinted that it's beyond the singlular mainstream multiverse as opposed to all the multiverses (omniverse)

Then in the next year's annual (#27), Kaminski referenced "myriad multiverseS" yet again:

http://i.imgur.com/YxI9oGv.jpg?1

So.......had Kaminski intended to portray the realm of the Beyonders beyond the omniverse (all multiverses), he would have said that the realm of the Beyonders is outside the multiverses (plural instead of singular)......you follow?

Which is why id say, the realm of the Beyonders is outside the mainstream multiverse, but still inside the omniverse.

Also, regarding LT existing in all multiverses simultaneously and all of that being within Eternity: There's no Eternity/cosmic hierarchy outside the mainstream multiverse (I thought you knew this?):

http://i.imgur.com/kW3ijee.jpg?1

Notice it specifies Eternity as being part of the hierarchy, and then the 2 other handbooks, confirm this further:

http://i.imgur.com/cldF2nP.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/5njhq1p.jpg?1

And it also makes sense, we know that the universes outside the mainstream multiverse (one example being the New Universe) does not contain Eternity. In fact the whole point of Marvel having realities outside the mainstream multiverse is to try to dissociate them.

So what you're suggesting is impossible, imo. Not to mention that was 616 Eternity so im not sure how can you say that he embodies infinite multiverses.

-------------------

Even initially, i never said anything about the Beyonders' realm being inside Eternity to begin with. It would be stupid of me to say that considering that i think it was 616 Eternity who we saw in Fantastic Four annual #23, as opposed to some non-existent omniversal one.

operator616

Originally posted by Mr Master
Handbooks ... Handbooks which give info doubt:

"Apparently the HE visited their dimension if he was their "museum."

That bone-head handbook writer doesn't even know HE went insane from the magnificence he witnessed and it had nothing at all with HE trying to comprehend the Beyonders or their realm.

Also, I may have to go back to those books
but I remember this planetary display was at the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy.
Yea, that was a "sector of space" in the Milky Way Galaxy the Beyonders were using to display their collection:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17507629/Beyonders_space_sector.jpg.html

Also, one of the he base of operations of the "Movers of Tarkus" is .. the Milky Way Galaxy:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/sphnxr.htm#Ring

I'll flip some pages though to be sure.

Well, if you want further confirmation all you have to do is ask.

Avengers, Thor & Captain America Official Index to the Marvel Universe #9: Confirms that the issue (Avengers Annual #17) does have a location of "Beyonders' space, and Beyonders' lair (see 2nd story)

http://i.imgur.com/V4K9poi.jpg?1

Location/items: Beyonders' lair, Beyonders' space

+

the handbooks which i posted prior:

http://i.imgur.com/Jog7wfA.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/I9Uu3Wp.jpg?1

= Undeniable proof, imo.

Also, HE didn't go mad because of the magnificence he saw, it was because he realized how insignificant he is when compared to the Beyonders' (or their realm). Apart from it being confirmed in the handbook and the index, here's a retelling from a 1998 Quicksilver issue, which confirms that it was because of the Beyonders:

http://i.imgur.com/CuOyypR.jpg?1

That's exactly what happened in the Avengers annual. The madness (depression) drove him to

......and then comes asking the Hulk trying to destroy his armor, just like in the Avengers Annual:

http://i.imgur.com/GJp1LAa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8hEbYOv.jpg

So the writer is perfectly aware of what he's talking about smile

Originally posted by Mr Master

I'm not absolutely certain about that. Bt it is my opinion based on other facts.
But I'm 100% certain they can travel outside the prime Multiverse, since they've done it on panel.

You're better off asking me questions than trying to figure out what's on my mind.

Anyway, my opinion comes from this:

When Dr Doom and the FF went looking for Beyonder's Universe
they passed by the BeyonderS Realm, it was lightless, and void.

When Kubik/Kosmos went into the Beyond Realm (Outside All There IS) it looks like a vast infinite Nothingness:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12726710/Huh.jpg.html

The TVA dumps parts of realities and entire universeS into the Nothingness "Beyond"
which is at the edge of their headquarters. Which means ... (edge of the omniverse)

Because as we know, the TVA headquarters is as long as the Omniverse,
that's a fact, and they are dumping Realities at the end/edge of their headquarters
through a doorway (door of discontinued universeS) that's Beyond their headquarters that is as long as the Omniverse,
therefore the "door of discontinued universeS" leads to ... Beyond the Omniverse.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12726711/huh2.jpg.html

Now, yea, I may be wrong ... Interesting though isn't it,
eerily familiar looking to the Beyond Realm too, a white void of nothingness ... labelled .... the "Beyond."

This, coupled with the fact that the Beyond Realm was depicted as being the Final ascendence,
literally outside/beyond All There IS ... where All Eternity/infinity becomes insignificant/infinitesimal,
meh, one has to wonder about the coincidence here.

It also makes sense that this debris or even entire universes are not noticed getting dumped in here,
since even All There Is (All Eternity/Infinity) is an insignificant speck in here.

Just sayin ...

But how can you acknowledge one without acknowledging the other? If the realm of the Beyonders is beyond the omniverse (which it isn't imo) then Kubik/Kosmos should be able to go outside the omniverse as well. Simple. No one is arguing that they can travel beyond the mainstream multiverse at this point.

I don't think so.

1. Shaper also explained in FF 319 the Beyonders' universe, and we see it lightless:

http://i.imgur.com/5kOPGno.jpg?1

btw, the handbook confirms:

http://i.imgur.com/5Y8N7Ac.jpg?1

2. Those issues are written by different writers, though. The Kubik/Kosmos by Kaminski, while the TVA by Simonson. Not to mention that Kaminski's FF annual, came a year before Simonson's FF 353, so Kaminski couldn't have made the connection and it was never his intention. Had it been written by the same writer and after FF 353, id consider it.

3. Plus, Kaminski's fantastic four annual #26 (2 years after Simonson's FF #353), confirms that the universe of the Beyonders is outside the mainstream multiverse instead of "the multiverseS" (omniverse). A point which i explained in detail already.

4. And honestly, how do you expect a "void" to be like? it'd be either plain white or black/lightless. It's just a coincidence that the realm of Beyonders (in one depiction) was white, just like , and i don't see anything to believe there's a connection between the two, tbh.

The Eternity who became insignificant in comparison with the Beyonders' realm, was 616-Eternity, no reason to believe otherwise. Though you do have a point that the their realm was the final transcendence, because after the Beyonders' realm, Kubik/Kosmos descended on to the Quantum level. But, someting to consider: In the end, the final lesson is that the universe (omniverse, in this case) is a great wheel:

http://i.imgur.com/20bmYNq.jpg

So after ascending to the highest plane (Beyonders' realm), you ascend to the infinitesimal level, and so on.....and all of this is inside the omniverse (evidently).

operator616

Originally posted by Mr Master

The first link doesn't say shit. The second link states: "Supreme being of the universe."
You enjoy interchanging the term "universe" with all (multiverse and/or more) when it suits you friend.

Anyway ... Starlin (as narrator) also stated this: (on panel)

"Supreme being of This Universe ... and Reality" (differentiating two items there)

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17507678/Thanos_Supreme_Starlin.jpg.html

Actually, in the original IG saga, it was portrayed on panel Thanos releasing his psychic wave.
it caused "inter-dimensional changes ... and "shifted the Space-Time Continuum""

I posted the scans already.

We simply didn't know how far reaching these inter-dimensional changes and space-time shift went,
this is where W&IW#4 comes in.

This, is no way takes away from the feat, if that's what your trying to spin now.

The first link was only to post the full paragraph, because the part in the first link was at the bottom of the page, while the part of the 2nd link was at the top of the page, hence why i edited them and post them indendently. Here's the entire page:

http://i.imgur.com/i8HIz20.jpg

Notice then afterwards, it says that Thanos planned to kill half population of the universe, so we know that the universe in the context of the sentence: "Thanos has achieved the mantle of supreme being in the universe"......refers to a single universe. That is, unless you're willing to argue that Thanos planned to kill half the population of the multiverse/omniverse.

What? When did i ever interchange the term "universe" with the multiverse/omiverse when it suits me. Go ahead id really like to know.

That scan proves that Thanos is the supreme being of one reality/universe, nothing more. So not sure why post it. I should thank you i guess, for proving my point.

Anyway, here's random scans proving that Thanos was a threat to a single universe:

http://i.imgur.com/p5ahr8Z.jpg?1

"This universe"

http://i.imgur.com/Kq4ZlZG.jpg?1

"your reality"

http://i.imgur.com/9pnbi5r.jpg?1

"This universe"

Those are from the main issues of IG

in a Silver Surfer tie-in, Thanos himself declaring: I have a universe to dominate:

http://i.imgur.com/oeqU5qF.jpg?1

Interesting isn't? cause that's exactly what the interview mentioned:

http://i.imgur.com/DaSHlF1.jpg?1

Yes, read the arc and saw the scans. The point is that Thanos affecting the Beyonders' universe wasn't in the IG arc, not sure what you're arguing here.

No, i am not saying that this takes away Thanos feat in any way. I mentioned this feat myself at the beginning of the thread.

Originally posted by Mr Master

I never said it did. Enuff with the circles friend.

I was posting feats, you know, feats that stand out. (you decided to quote & challenge everything I posted)

Anyway, Incomplete IG tanking then owning with a thought the most powerful weapon (UN) was one of em.

Well, considering that UN is a multiversal weapon, i thought you were implying that.

I ignored some the feats you posted because they were irrelevant, i only dealt with the ones that "prove" him as being fully multiversal. My original position is that it wasn't, which is why im arguing about it now. I have no problem with not replying if you want, though.

Originally posted by Mr Master

What?

What does this mean, prove or have to do with Warlock/Magus operating across infinite universeS,
and a residual affect of "Time Ripples" lingering afterwards 1000+ Years in the Future?

Also, the effect wasn't situated in the Future, Dr Strange never said that,
it just so happens that Strange was leaving Reality-691 when he noticed.

Dr Strange made it seem like this affect was across all of Time.
(since he never alluded to a limit)

-------------------------------------------------------------

That aside,
your scan makes no sense. I also never read where that came from.
How is that IG able to function in parallel universes,
if it's constricted to its native reality?

What's the plot?

My bad, i should've explained it more detailed. But it was the last point and i was tired.......

Anyway, if you want all the details go read ultimate comics ultimates #25-30.

Basically, Kang wants to prevent the destruction of the future of th ultimate-verse, and she (invisble woman-Kang) is hoping to achieve that through the infinity gems.

The point is that (like in Infinity War) using the gems in the present and them affecting a future reality doesn't prove it's multiverse because well, it's the future, it's gonna have effects/consequences.

But let's focus on the important part of that Warlock/Magus scan:

http://i.imgur.com/HADIfo8.jpg?1

"countless planes........for the fate of the universe"

I posted that before. You must have missed it. It's an ambiguous feat.

Galan007

Originally posted by operator616
But let's focus on the important part of that Warlock/Magus scan:

http://i.imgur.com/HADIfo8.jpg?1

"countless planes........for the fate of the universe"

I posted that before. You must have missed it. It's an ambiguous feat. Ha. I never felt the need to look into that feat for myself(I didn't think information would purposefully be withheld), but thanks for bringing this to light. thumb up

If it were a multiversal feat(as some have claimed), then the outcome wouldn't have simply decided the fate of 'a' universe-- it would have decided the fate of 'infinite' universeS. So yeah, ambiguous is right. Lol.

Mind citing the issue # so I can be sure to reference this scan in the future?

operator616

^ Fantastic Four #370.

Galan007

Thanks.

I'll make sure to highlight that comic for ease of future reference.

ODG

Originally posted by operator616
Yes, read the arc and saw the scans. The point is that Thanos affecting the Beyonders' universe Not accurate.

CatL18

Did I overrate Mandrakk? I thought Mandrakk is metafictional or metaconceptual character, and at least metaversal. and I saw many thread mandrakk defeat multiversal being like chaos king in this forum. Was it wrong? I'm really confused.

Igniz

Originally posted by CatL18
Did I overrate Mandrakk? I thought Mandrakk is metafictional or metaconceptual character, and at least metaversal. and I saw many thread mandrakk defeat multiversal being like chaos king in this forum. Was it wrong? I'm really confused.

The problem with Mandrakk is that its easier to say he beats (insert multiversal DC Character's name here) by eating his/her story.A lot of people assumes Mandrakk's concept of eating stories can also be applied to Marvel Characters.But does Marvel view their story concepts the way DC does?I honestly don't know if Marvel views the story of a character the same way DC does.But it will be false to claim/assume w/o proof that Marvel views their story the same way DC does.And if we apply this to Mandrakk Vs (Insert Multiversal Marvel Character here), who can say Mandrakk will eat a Marvel Multiversal Character's story if no one has proof Marvel views their story concept the same way DC does?There is no character in Marvel who eats a character's story the same way Mandrakk does.If there is, we're not even certain if that is the same concept DC uses.That becomes a problem against Mandrakk.The eating story ability becomes a no limit fallacy if that is also applied to Marvel Characters.And no limits fallacy isn't allowed in the forums.Only panel vs panel discussion is allowed in Vs Forums settings.Take away Mandrakk's eating story concept and just place on panel vs a Marvel Multiversal character's on panel.Mandrakk would suddenly lose his advantage.His lack of appearances becomes a bit of a hindrance to him.The only thing Mandrakk has going for him is statements by other characters and people on every other forum like "he will drain the bleed dry".And only a writer can create a story that destroys a multiverse.I guess Fred Hembeck stomps all then.He's a character and a writer who can destroy a character or an omniverse by writing a story of being killed by Crackers the clown.Only TOAA himself stopped Fred Hembeck(since he's almost TOAA level) from accomplishing this.And if TOAA states "Let my characters(Marvel) be immune to Mandrakk's story eating", what's left for Mandrakk then?

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/3840_4_1.jpg

As for Chaos King, he gets a lot of hate here.

zopzop

Originally posted by Igniz
As for Chaos King, he gets a lot of hate here.
He deserves the hate because he's such a sh|tty character.

As to the thread, Thanos with the Classic IG wins IMHO.

CatL18

Originally posted by Igniz
The problem with Mandrakk is that its easier to say he beats (insert multiversal DC Character's name here) by eating his/her story.A lot of people assumes Mandrakk's concept of eating stories can also be applied to Marvel Characters.But does Marvel view their story concepts the way DC does?I honestly don't know if Marvel views the story of a character the same way DC does.But it will be false to claim/assume w/o proof that Marvel views their story the same way DC does.And if we apply this to Mandrakk Vs (Insert Multiversal Marvel Character here), who can say Mandrakk will eat a Marvel Multiversal Character's story if no one has proof Marvel views their story concept the same way DC does?There is no character in Marvel who eats a character's story the same way Mandrakk does.If there is, we're not even certain if that is the same concept DC uses.That becomes a problem against Mandrakk.The eating story ability becomes a no limit fallacy if that is also applied to Marvel Characters.And no limits fallacy isn't allowed in the forums.Only panel vs panel discussion is allowed in Vs Forums settings.Take away Mandrakk's eating story concept and just place on panel vs a Marvel Multiversal character's on panel.Mandrakk would suddenly lose his advantage.His lack of appearances becomes a bit of a hindrance to him.The only thing Mandrakk has going for him is statements by other characters and people on every other forum like "he will drain the bleed dry".And only a writer can create a story that destroys a multiverse.I guess Fred Hembeck stomps all then.He's a character and a writer who can destroy a character or an omniverse by writing a story of being killed by Crackers the clown.Only TOAA himself stopped Fred Hembeck(since he's almost TOAA level) from accomplishing this.And if TOAA states "Let my characters(Marvel) be immune to Mandrakk's story eating", what's left for Mandrakk then?

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/3840_4_1.jpg

As for Chaos King, he gets a lot of hate here.
But in this forum, mandrakk have defeated many multiversal character. Chaos king is only a example.In this forum, Mandrakk have defeated COIE Antimonitor,Hunger,Spectre,etc. Without Story eating, He is Multi or Metaversal Character,isn't he? You don't like Mandrakk's concept, But many supports Mandrakk's potential. You can say Concept of Story in Marvel is different from DC's. but You can't say Mandrakk's Story eating is nothing. If so, You should say Mandrakk should not be used in Versus Forum.

Originally posted by zopzop
He deserves the hate because he's such a sh|tty character.

As to the thread, Thanos with the Classic IG wins IMHO.
You said Chaos King can stomp Lucifer Morningstar laughing out loud