The Batman and Spider-Man swap cities. Who fares better against the other'senemies?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



maxivitopowe
Bats and spider wake up one morning.

Wayne manor/the batcave are now just outside NYC. The Sinister Six (Doc Ock, Sandman, Kraven
the Hunter, Mysterio, Electro, and the Vulture) are in the midst of a crime spree and running
rampant on the city. The Rhino is robbing banks left right and center, and The Green Goblin has
discovered Bats' secret identity.

Aunt May's house has been relocated to Gotham. Bane and his crew have just pulled off a
massive break out at Arkham Asylum and Bane is hunting the Spider (ala Knightfall).
Who has greater success cleaning up the streets and restoring order the their newfound cities

Bonus round (under same stips)

How would Grayson do in NYC

How would SpOck do in Gotham

Estacado
Batman is phucked.

deathslash
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Bats and spider wake up one morning.

Wayne manor/the batcave are now just outside NYC. The Sinister Six (Doc Ock, Sandman, Kraven
the Hunter, Mysterio, Electro, and the Vulture) are in the midst of a crime spree and running
rampant on the city. The Rhino is robbing banks left right and center, and The Green Goblin has
discovered Bats' secret identity.

Aunt May's house has been relocated to Gotham. Bane and his crew have just pulled off a
massive break out at Arkham Asylum and Bane is hunting the Spider (ala Knightfall).
Who has greater success cleaning up the streets and restoring order the their newfound cities

Bonus round (under same stips)

How would Grayson do in NYC

How would SpOck do in Gotham erm You switched the villains of a high level meta with a high level street character? Of course Spider-man has better success under these circumstances.

Supra
Spiderman>Batman

pym-ftw
The SS is going to mess up the arkham baddies.

Badabing
Originally posted by Estacado
Batman is phucked. Originally posted by Supra
Spiderman>Batman You're both dead to me. sneer

Sin I AM
They both fine...only serious threat to bruce is norman and I fear joker would kill may abut parker clears

tkitna
Originally posted by Sin I AM
They both fine...only serious threat to bruce is norman and I fear joker would kill may abut parker clears

A non-pissing around Sandman would kill Bruce in a short amount of time.

Sin I AM
Yea because he does so well against parker

maxivitopowe
The only reason I stated this thread was cos off Reddit

JayDaDon
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea because he does so well against parker

Yeah, slight physical difference between Batman and Parker. Not to mention somebody like Doc ock who plays no games and goes for the kill would likely spell big trouble for Bruce.

Kazenji
Originally posted by tkitna
A non-pissing around Sandman would kill Bruce in a short amount of time.

How's that any different to him fighting Clayface?

Bentley
Batman vs Otto Octavius = Superior Batman.

'nuff said.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Yeah, slight physical difference between Batman and Parker. Not to mention somebody like Doc ock who plays no games and goes for the kill would likely spell big trouble for Bruce.

Yea because batmans rogues take it easy on him



Originally posted by Bentley
Batman vs Otto Octavius = Superior Batman.

'nuff said.

Good thing Bruce isn't as weak willed as Peter

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Bats and spider wake up one morning.

Wayne manor/the batcave are now just outside NYC. The Sinister Six (Doc Ock, Sandman, Kraven
the Hunter, Mysterio, Electro, and the Vulture) are in the midst of a crime spree and running
rampant on the city. The Rhino is robbing banks left right and center, and The Green Goblin has
discovered Bats' secret identity.

Aunt May's house has been relocated to Gotham. Bane and his crew have just pulled off a
massive break out at Arkham Asylum and Bane is hunting the Spider (ala Knightfall).
Who has greater success cleaning up the streets and restoring order the their newfound cities

Bonus round (under same stips)

How would Grayson do in NYC

How would SpOck do in Gotham

Batman and Grayson do better. Having the Manor AND the Batcave is a massive boost to Batman, the problem of course being the Goblin. Regardless, Batman still has his toys (and his rocket ship!) that would be a massive help, assuming the Avengers/SHIELD don't drop in on him and confiscate everything.

Only having Aunt May's house handicaps SpOck enormously. Peter does better, though.

Bentley
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Good thing Bruce isn't as weak willed as Peter

Nobody is.

But Otto still gets to take Bruce Wayne's body for a ride.

maxivitopowe
Actually considering that i copied this from the reddit im changing aunt mays house to Horizon Labs

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Bentley
Nobody is.

But Otto still gets to take Bruce Wayne's body for a ride.

Otto then gets beaten bloody by the Batman of Zur En Arrh....

SamZED
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea because batmans rogues take it easy on him





Good thing Bruce isn't as weak willed as Peter weak willed? You don't know what you're talking about.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by SamZED
weak willed? You don't know what you're talking about.

Do tell please school me on parkers superior will power over Wayne

SamZED
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Do tell please school me on parkers superior will power over Wayne Or you could read a book or two and see all the things Pete accomplished through sheer will power? Because if you honestly think he's weak willed I'm not wasting time arguing. Heck the very reason Ock has a different approach on fighting crime is because he's seen Pete's memories and said all the things Pete's done through sheer power of will are impossible. But I'm curious what do you base your opinion on.

-Pr-
There's a difference between being weak-willed, and simply having less will-power than someone.

I would never claim Parker was weak-willed, but I would still argue that Bruce edges him out in will-power.

As far as villains go, I would think that, obviously, Parker would have more success than Bruce would against most villains. I just worry about the Joker, and how he'd handle him.

SamZED
Originally posted by -Pr-
There's a difference between being weak-willed, and simply having less will-power than someone.

I would never claim Parker was weak-willed, but I would still argue that Bruce edges him out in will-power.

As far as villains go, I would think that, obviously, Parker would have more success than Bruce would against most villains. I just worry about the Joker, and how he'd handle him. I personally don't agree but see how the argument can be made for both characters. My response was to Sin's comment that specifically stated that Pete is "weak willed" and that's just ridiculous.

-Pr-
Originally posted by SamZED
I personally don't agree but see how the argument can be made for both characters. My response was to Sin's comment that specifically stated that Pete is "weak willed" and that's just ridiculous.

Yeah, my statement was more to Sin too.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by SamZED
Or you could read a book or two and see all the things Pete accomplished through sheer will power? Because if you honestly think he's weak willed I'm not wasting time arguing. Heck the very reason Ock has a different approach on fighting crime is because he's seen Pete's memories and said all the things Pete's done through sheer power of will are impossible. But I'm curious what do you base your opinion on.

Don't condescend. My statement is correct. Spiderman is NOT as strong willed as Batman. Maybe if you hadn't interjected prematurely you would have seen that was the stance I'd taken. The "weak-willed" comment was more out of jest than anything.

SamZED
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Don't condescend. My statement is correct. Spiderman is NOT as strong willed as Batman. Maybe if you hadn't interjected prematurely you would have seen that was the stance I'd taken. The "weak-willed" comment was more out of jest than anything. If you believe Batman has superior will (although I disagree) you're entitled to your opinion. But what you actually said was "Batman is not weak willed as Parker". Not the same thing. And I don't see how it'd change anything in the context of this thread seeing how Pete's will had nothing to do with Ock using a mind-wiping machine to erase the remains of Pete's personality. Don't see how Batman would've faired any better under the circumstances. And speaking of will power, Ock ultimately failed seeing how Pete willed himself back already.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by SamZED
If you believe Batman has superior will (although I disagree) you're entitled to your opinion. But what you actually said was "Batman is not weak willed as Parker". Not the same thing. And I don't see how it'd change anything in the context of this thread seeing how Pete's will had nothing to do with Ock using a mind-wiping machine to erase the remains of Pete's personality. Don't see how Batman would've faired any better under the circumstances. And speaking of will power, Ock ultimately failed seeing how Pete willed himself back already.

Because when it comes to being controlled by machines, telepaths or gods Batman has proved time and time again his will power is absolute and I have no doubts that he would have repelled otto and rather easily

DarkSaint85
SamZED, you're wrong. And I hate you.

How many times has Spiderman chucked in the towel and contemplated giving up his life as Spidey?

When Batman tries to chuck it in, his own psychosis fights back and refuses to let go. If Otto tried to take over, his backup Batman would fight back, and he would be fiercer than Parker.

SamZED
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because when it comes to being controlled by machines, telepaths or gods Batman has proved time and time again his will power is absolute and I have no doubts that he would have repelled otto and rather easily Good thing mind control is not as addictive as Bane venom... Do I really need to bring up all the times Spider-man's fought and resisted mind control to prove a point. There's more to will power than that because otherwise freaking Deadpool would have more will power than Batman. In my opinion will power is finding strength to keep fighting when there's no hope left and fighting when there's no fight left in you. And when it comes to that Spider-man is not far behind guys like Cap and Supes.
For example, in one of the older books we've seen Pete die while protecting a little girl from an explosion. They both ended up in Death's realm. There was Thanos and lady Death herself. The girl's spirit was "unconscious" and Thanos told him that she's too far gone and belongs to Lady Death now while Pete can still get back among the living if he chooses to. Needless to say he was absolutely helpless in that situation. What did he do? Basically said "FU" to both of them and went up against a 40-foot Thanos.

Then there's this (he was dead three seconds ago):
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/3126476.html
And billion other similar showings.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
SamZED, you're wrong. And I hate you.

How many times has Spiderman chucked in the towel and contemplated giving up his life as Spidey?

When Batman tries to chuck it in, his own psychosis fights back and refuses to let go. If Otto tried to take over, his backup Batman would fight back, and he would be fiercer than Parker. I'm never wrong and you're just jealous.

Giving up the life of superhero was never about will. And while we're on the subject Pete was once given the chance to give up being Spider-man, get back to normal life, basically rewrite history so that uncle Ben would be saved. And he wanted that more than anything but refused because that'd also mean giving up the responsibility and hoping that some other hero will save all the people he saved.
Psychosis exactly. Batman loves being Batman more than he loves helping people. Otherwise he would've ended Joker a long time ago his morals and code be damned. At some point it just becomes hypocrisy. Seriously I'd pay a great sum of money to see Batman in a situation similar to the one Vash (Trigun) was in. Vash ultimately made the right choice sacrificing his humanity, Batman would've probably just let everyone die and be full of himself. All is good as long as he personally doesn't pull the trigger, right? Ock would've erased him by pointing out that hypocrisy.evil face
And Pete is not done fighting yet, see the later SSM issues.

-Pr-
I'm glad you're being sarcastic about Batman, because wow... laughing out loud

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by SamZED
Good thing mind control is not as addictive as Bane venom... Do I really need to bring up all the times Spider-man's fought and resisted mind control to prove a point. There's more to will power than that because otherwise freaking Deadpool would have more will power than Batman. In my opinion will power is finding strength to keep fighting when there's no hope left and fighting when there's no fight left in you. And when it comes to that Spider-man is not far behind guys like Cap and Supes.
For example, in one of the older books we've seen Pete die while protecting a little girl from an explosion. They both ended up in Death's realm. There was Thanos and lady Death herself. The girl's spirit was "unconscious" and Thanos told him that she's too far gone and belongs to Lady Death now while Pete can still get back among the living if he chooses to. Needless to say he was absolutely helpless in that situation. What did he do? Basically said "FU" to both of them and went up against a 40-foot Thanos.

Then there's this (he was dead three seconds ago):
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/3126476.html
And billion other similar showings.


I'm never wrong and you're just jealous.

Giving up the life of superhero was never about will. And while we're on the subject Pete was once given the chance to give up being Spider-man, get back to normal life, basically rewrite history so that uncle Ben would be saved. And he wanted that more than anything but refused because that'd also mean giving up the responsibility and hoping that some other hero will save all the people he saved.
Psychosis exactly. Batman loves being Batman more than he loves helping people. Otherwise he would've ended Joker a long time ago his morals and code be damned. At some point it just becomes hypocrisy. Seriously I'd pay a great sum of money to see Batman in a situation similar to the one Vash (Trigun) was in. Vash ultimately made the right choice sacrificing his humanity, Batman would've probably just let everyone die and be full of himself. All is good as long as he personally doesn't pull the trigger, right? Ock would've erased him by pointing out that hypocrisy.evil face
And Pete is not done fighting yet, see the later SSM issues.

And in reply (good job bringing up Clark, btw), where Superman fails against Mageddon, Batman saves him by refusing to give up.

They're both close in willpower, anyways. Most comic book characters are. Even Deadpool - an argument can be made for him. It takes a certain someone to pull on tights and do what they do everyday. Highest of all would be the Hydra and AIM grunt agents, when they repeatedly go up against the Avengers/X-men/FF. They're fighting literal gods, with comic book lazer guns....that takes gumption and will.

In a battle of willpower, my money will be on Batman.

In this thread, still Bats, but its much much closer now that the Spideys have Horizon Labs.

SamZED
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm glad you're being sarcastic about Batman, because wow... laughing out loud Who says I'm being sarcastic?shifty
See I know how to work the system, first I trash Batman's character then I make a short comment praising Superman's will power to balance it out and avoid getting permabanned by you. I'm a real life evil genius. evil face

But I was serious when I mentioned the Trigun scenario, I would really like to see what Batman would do in a similar situation.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And in reply (good job bringing up Clark, btw), where Superman fails against Mageddon, Batman saves him by refusing to give up.

They're both close in willpower, anyways. Most comic book characters are. Even Deadpool - an argument can be made for him. It takes a certain someone to pull on tights and do what they do everyday. Highest of all would be the Hydra and AIM grunt agents, when they repeatedly go up against the Avengers/X-men/FF. They're fighting literal gods, with comic book lazer guns....that takes gumption and will.

In a battle of willpower, my money will be on Batman.

In this thread, still Bats, but its much much closer now that the Spideys have Horizon Labs. But are they really that strong or just retarded? I mean the AIM and Hydra agents.laughing out loud

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by SamZED


But are they really that strong or just retarded? I mean the AIM and Hydra agents.laughing out loud

It's a fine line, a fine line I tell you!! mad mad

No more retarded than going up against 2/5ths of a cosmic force, one of whom's a Hell Lord, the other, an avater of destruction.

Or attempting to mind probe an alien weapon from before our Universe that was created to kill gods, aided only by the Manjobber and a crying Clark.

maxivitopowe
Reddit: The bat and spidey swap places

Bentley
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Otto then gets beaten bloody by the Batman of Zur En Arrh....

Morrison is non canon in my Bat-verse uhuh

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's a fine line, a fine line I tell you!! mad mad

No more retarded than going up against 2/5ths of a cosmic force, one of whom's a Hell Lord, the other, an avater of destruction.

Or attempting to mind probe an alien weapon from before our Universe that was created to kill gods, aided only by the Manjobber and a crying Clark.
Batman was crying like a girl with a minor contact with Maggeddon's mind and J'onn was protecting him from full contact with Maggeddon. Superman took ALL the suffering in the maggeddon warhead in himself and smiled after that.

Also remember Emperor Joker when Bruce was crying like a girl and Kal took pity on him and took all his memories in himself?

vin

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by abhilegend
Batman was crying like a girl with a minor contact with Maggeddon's mind and J'onn was protecting him from full contact with Maggeddon. Superman took ALL the suffering in the maggeddon warhead in himself and smiled after that.

Also remember Emperor Joker when Bruce was crying like a girl and Kal took pity on him and took all his memories in himself?

vin

All non-canon and lies!!!!!!!!

abhilegend
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
All non-canon and lies!!!!!!!!
laughing out loud

JayDaDon
Abhilegend is super annoying when it comes to superman, but awesome when he uses his powers for good (aka Spider-man)

JayDaDon
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea because batmans rogues take it easy on him



On average, Spidey's rogues gallery is larger and far more dangerous. Don't act like their interchangeable.

Marvel_Mystic
Batman is toast. Even low level Spider-Man villains like Shocker would beat him easily.

Flyattractor
If Batman gets to use his JLA level Tech he can win quite a few of these battles.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by JayDaDon
On average, Spidey's rogues gallery is larger and far more dangerous. Don't act like their interchangeable.

More powerful yea more dangerous no

JayDaDon
I would say they are more dangerous. Doc ok alone has been insanely dangerous leading up to superior.

chipguy_okay
If batman takes a bit of time to get intel on the villains he could take them down without acting to far ooc. Mysterio and Electro are the biggest problem. Not really sure what Bruce could do if he's remotely ic to take down I am electricity Electro. Maybe electro's back to being human though...

If batman just rushes off head first he'd die horribly.

deathslash
Originally posted by JayDaDon
I would say they are more dangerous. Doc ok alone has been insanely dangerous leading up to superior. Compare bane to the Rhino and then tell me who's more dangerous. Spider-man villains are typically more powerful but are most certainly less dangerous.

Based
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Reddit: The bat and spidey swap places

That subreddit is filled with morons.

Silent Master
Originally posted by deathslash
Compare bane to the Rhino and then tell me who's more dangerous. Spider-man villains are typically more powerful but are most certainly less dangerous.

You think Bane is more dangerous than Rhino?

Bentley
Originally posted by Sin I AM
More powerful yea more dangerous no

Doc Ock by himself is more dangerous than half of Bat's rogues gallery put together.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by deathslash
Compare bane to the Rhino and then tell me who's more dangerous. Spider-man villains are typically more powerful but are most certainly less dangerous.

Cool, how bout we use, just to shake things up, Bane and Doc ock and see who's more dangerous? There is far smarter and more ruthless than Rhino to choose from in Spidey's rogues gallery.

rotiart
In the case of batman v Spider-man I bring up the following

Peak fighters. Or captain America: tie
Bricks: both defeated hulk: tie
Cosmic love threats: darkseid > fire lord

Whenever the question is who wins in a fight against batman... The answer is always batman.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Cool, how bout we use, just to shake things up, Bane and Doc ock and see who's more dangerous? There is far smarter and more ruthless than Rhino to choose from in Spidey's rogues gallery.

There are also smarter/more dangerous in Bats' rogue gallery (different reasons, of course).

How would Spidey, on his lonesome, deal with Ra's and the League, for example? Bats was tolerated because Ra's wanted his baby batter, but I doubt he'd want a snarky young adult to knock his daughter up.

And then yes, there is the Joker. Goblin is also mad, but never on the scale of the Joker - poisoning all the fish in the US, poisoning almost every supervillain in the world etc etc.

Caps Conscience
Joker would not last very long on the streets with spidey.

Sin I AM
Joker trumps every villian Spiderman ever faced. .hush, the black mask the league would crush Spiderman and kill May for shits n giggles

DarkSaint85
Not to mention the Court of Owls (post FP) and the Black Glove.

Professor Pyg, Wraith..yeah, Spidey wouldn't fare too well.

Estacado
^
Yup the Talons are pretty nasty.

DarkSaint85

maxivitopowe
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There are also smarter/more dangerous in Bats' rogue gallery (different reasons, of course).

How would Spidey, on his lonesome, deal with Ra's and the League, for example? Bats was tolerated because Ra's wanted his baby batter, but I doubt he'd want a snarky young adult to knock his daughter up.

And then yes, there is the Joker. Goblin is also mad, but never on the scale of the Joker - poisoning all the fish in the US, poisoning almost every supervillain in the world etc etc.

Considering a child tween Talia and Pete would be superior then a child tween Bruce and Talia.. i dunno

and would joker be able to effectively become the leader of what is effectively a hyper advanced security service?

R'as might, Talia might as well

hell i'll even say that bane and riddler could as well

but not Joker

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Considering a child tween Talia and Pete would be superior then a child tween Bruce and Talia.. i dunno

Ra's doesn't see it in pure terms of power mixing. He's not doing an amalgam match. Bruce is superior to Peter for what Ra's is looking for. Parker is and always will be the underdog, the beta male.

Plus, Talia fell in love with Bruce first, only then didRa's begin to consider him.



Joker wouldn't want to be the leader of a security service. But that doesn't mean he couldn't. He has led before - witness Joker's Last Laugh, where he's the head of a mad group of super villains, and the Salvation Run storyline, where the villains followed his leadership.

Plus, he almost always has a large gang under his lead.

DarkSaint85
Edit: double post

Bentley
Originally posted by DarkSaint85

and the Salvation Run storyline, where the villains followed his leadership.

PIS.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Bentley
PIS.

Admittedly, they then starved and fell out lol.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Joker trumps every villian Spiderman ever faced. .hush, the black mask the league would crush Spiderman and kill May for shits n giggles

Nah I'd say Spidey is too smart for Black mask or hush. At best they would have a back and forth, spidey's raw brain power would at the very least keep it a chess match. No way would either of them stomp him in any way. What plans could they really come up with that his spidey sense wouldn't phuck up at some point? Joker maybe, but he's a physical force that these guys just don't have the experience against. Not to mention his tech.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Nah I'd say Spidey is too smart for Black mask or hush. At best they would have a back and forth, spidey's raw brain power would at the very least keep it a chess match. No way would either of them stomp him in any way. What plans could they really come up with that his spidey sense wouldn't phuck up at some point? Joker maybe, but he's a physical force that these guys just don't have the experience against. Not to mention his tech.

Black Mask and his organisation, on his own, maybe not. But as a distraction whilst Joker is running riot? Sure.

Hush had the advantage of knowing Bruce Wayne - if we replicated the EXACT circumstances (very unlikely lol) then he would wreck Spidey's life. As it is, he is good for organising the villains to take Spidey down, nothing more.

Black Glove is more dangerous, anyway. Spidey is small fry to them.

SamZED
Ock before Superior was easily more dangerous than Joker on his best day minus Emperor.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by SamZED
Ock before Superior was easily more dangerous than Joker on his best day minus Emperor.

How so?

Of course, he has had more 'supervillain' type schemes like the Octavian Lens.....but again, its mainly because Joker wants to play with Batman, not because he wants to rule the world or amass riches.

SamZED
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How so?

Of course, he has had more 'supervillain' type schemes like the Octavian Lens.....but again, its mainly because Joker wants to play with Batman, not because he wants to rule the world or amass riches. And Ock wanted to mess with Parker. He was one button push away from destroying the entire planet with both Avengers and FF unable to stop him. One thing Joker has over Otto is his insanity and IMO that alone does not make him a greater threat than Ock. AFAIR the only time Joker pulled something of a similar magnitude was during Last Laugh.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Black Mask and his organisation, on his own, maybe not. But as a distraction whilst Joker is running riot? Sure.

Hush had the advantage of knowing Bruce Wayne - if we replicated the EXACT circumstances (very unlikely lol) then he would wreck Spidey's life. As it is, he is good for organising the villains to take Spidey down, nothing more.

Black Glove is more dangerous, anyway. Spidey is small fry to them.

I don't see it as that cut and dry. All Parker has in this scenario is his aunt may and his house. He doesn't have nearly the same amount of avenues to be phucked with that Bruce wayne does. There is a very limited amount of ways you could get to him in this scenario. The most effective would probably be hurting innocents, but that's nothing he hasn't dealt with before. And I didn't mean the black glove. Wasn't he a black lantern lol

maxivitopowe
he actually has just horizon labs

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by JayDaDon
I don't see it as that cut and dry. All Parker has in this scenario is his aunt may and his house. He doesn't have nearly the same amount of avenues to be phucked with that Bruce wayne does. There is a very limited amount of ways you could get to him in this scenario. The most effective would probably be hurting innocents, but that's nothing he hasn't dealt with before. And I didn't mean the black glove. Wasn't he a black lantern lol


Lol the Black Glove are a group of super wealthy, super powerful people with their own metahuman/villain army, with wealth that supposedly dwarfs even Bruce's. Politicians, CEOs - think the Court of Owls, but on steroids.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by SamZED
And Ock wanted to mess with Parker. He was one button push away from destroying the entire planet with both Avengers and FF unable to stop him. One thing Joker has over Otto is his insanity and IMO that alone does not make him a greater threat than Ock. AFAIR the only time Joker pulled something of a similar magnitude was during Last Laugh.

What I meant was, Joker is far more dangerous because he knows Batman and his secrets. Otto - when the battle is over, he will be locked in prison, with a fear of spiders.

With Joker, you'll always be worried what he might do next. That's why, IMHO, he's more dangerous.

SamZED
I think that's the case for Ock too. Worrying what he might do next I mean.
Last time he got locked in prison we got the Superior SM book.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by SamZED
Ock before Superior was easily more dangerous than Joker on his best day minus Emperor. Like the Last Laugh?

SamZED
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Like the Last Laugh? Yeah.

Branlor Swift
I don't know about that. Joker pretty ****ed over the entire world just because he thought he was dying.

And still Joker isn't putting forth his best effort to be a "threat"

SamZED
That's pretty much what Ock did. If it wasn't for his CIS he would've feighed the planet.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Black Mask and his organisation, on his own, maybe not. But as a distraction whilst Joker is running riot? Sure.

Hush had the advantage of knowing Bruce Wayne - if we replicated the EXACT circumstances (very unlikely lol) then he would wreck Spidey's life. As it is, he is good for organising the villains to take Spidey down, nothing more.

Black Glove is more dangerous, anyway. Spidey is small fry to them.

I'm not even a Spider-Man fan but Black Mask, Hush, Black Glove? Peter has dealt with people just as bad, if not worse. He'll overcome any challenge they put in his path. The sheer stat difference alone puts the villains on the defensive. Batman in his own books is far more toned down then the JLA version even in technology.

How dangerous Joker is depends on what rules we us. DC has this weird thing where being crazy is in of itself some kind of twisted Longshot power. In Marvel, I doubt he'd last a week before someone like Punisher or -insert hero- comes along and puts him in a grave.

I don't think any other villain aside from Doom gets away with the kind of bullshit Joker pulls but at least he has realistic reasons and he never goes out of his way to kill large groups of people just because.

Anyways, I think Joker would be most dangerous because of the sheer lengths he'd go to and the lack of boundaries but people seem to forget that Peter is far from inexperienced in dealing with dangerous and intelligent psychos due to Osborn.

I think he might very well find out who Peter is and go after May. He might even kill or severely injure her but it will always end up with him in jail. Except this isn't Batman and Peter might very well punch his head off if pushed too far.

Ultimately this depends on the writer. I'm certain there are more then a number of writers who would have Spider-Man clean up Gotham City no problem due to the enemies he's use to and his massive stat edge. Others would probably have him being pushed by the sheer corruption and psychos running around. Then again, Marvel is generally darker and it's citizens far more prone to hating heroes and being crazy bigots.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol the Black Glove are a group of super wealthy, super powerful people with their own metahuman/villain army, with wealth that supposedly dwarfs even Bruce's. Politicians, CEOs - think the Court of Owls, but on steroids.

Know what, I was thinking of Black hand. Ditto to everything Rage said.

DarkSaint85
What would Spidey do to people like the League, Black Glove etc? Itsnot like he can solve them by punching....i Admit, there's a massive stat advantage, but whilst the League admittedly have a single figurehead a la kingpin to take down.....he's not doing much toglove.

Bentley
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't think any other villain aside from Doom gets away with the kind of bullshit Joker pulls but at least he has realistic reasons and he never goes out of his way to kill large groups of people just because.

Kang made war on Earth, destroyed Washington DC and then lived to drink martinis because that's how he rolls.

maxivitopowe
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What would Spidey do to people like the League, Black Glove etc? Itsnot like he can solve them by punching....i Admit, there's a massive stat advantage, but whilst the League admittedly have a single figurehead a la kingpin to take down.....he's not doing much toglove.

he has his entire labs resources
im sure he could think of something
didnt he create those Alpha "peter" Particles?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
he has his entire labs resources
im sure he could think of something
didnt he create those Alpha "peter" Particles?

Wouldn't matter.

They are high profile celebrity figures, CEOs, diplomats, royalty etc. It's the same way no one can take Doom down.

You can't punch your way out of this one - they are essentially untouchable. Plus, there's figuring out who is and who isn't a member.

Batman was lucky (PIS?) that the League of Assassins got involved.

Rao Kal El
Imo Batman will get a really hard time in Marvel's NY

Besides Spidermans foes he wil face hulks from time to time.

But enemies like Electro will give him a lot of trouble, but I think eventually he will adapt if he can survive

Now spiderman in gotham while more powerful than batman he lacks the character and darkness to intimidate the criminals of gotham, plus the gotham criminals are so f&ck up in the head, that they will break Spiderman mentally and morally. Even if we give him his black suit back to be more intimidating, he lacks the psycological or mental "mojo" to tame gotham city like Batman does

Bentley
There is also the fact Batman is unable to tame Gotham himself, his fear agenda is the longest ongoing failure in comicdom.

Epicurus
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Now spiderman in gotham while more powerful than batman he lacks the character and darkness to intimidate the criminals of gotham, plus the gotham criminals are so f&ck up in the head, that they will break Spiderman mentally and morally. Even if we give him his black suit back to be more intimidating, he lacks the psycological or mental "mojo" to tame gotham city like Batman does
Superior Spider-Man could get the job done though.

Rao Kal El
True. I wonder if a hero could actually make gotham city a safe place to walk at night.

I think spiderman is more powerful but I even doubt Superman will be able to clean gotham, because of the psycotic nature of its criminals.

"Batman is not the hero Gotham needs, but the hero Gotham deserves" smile in college humor voice

Epicurus
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I think spiderman is more powerful but I even doubt Superman will be able to clean gotham, because of the psycotic nature of its criminals.
Depending on which incarnation we're talking about, Superman could either end Gotham's woes in a fortnight or make the situation even worse that it already is.

Bentley
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
True. I wonder if a hero could actually make gotham city a safe place to walk at night.

Judge Dredd.

Golgo13
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wouldn't matter.

They are high profile celebrity figures, CEOs, diplomats, royalty etc. It's the same way no one can take Doom down.

You can't punch your way out of this one - they are essentially untouchable. Plus, there's figuring out who is and who isn't a member.

Batman was lucky (PIS?) that the League of Assassins got involved.

What about the League of Assassins?

Golgo13
BTW, DCnU League of Assassins would phuck up the Sinister Six. Easily.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Golgo13
What about the League of Assassins?

What about them?

Golgo13
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What about them?

You said Bruce was lucky they got involved. What do you mean?

abhilegend
Nah, they can't. Its been stated and showed several times that the evil in Gotham runs so deep that the city itself is infested with it and anybody residing there would go insane eventually.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Golgo13
You said Bruce was lucky they got involved. What do you mean?

Talia and Damian found out about the Black Glove's plot, and arrived just in time to save Gordon from all the booby traps at Wayne Manor, then helped Batman.

After the events of Batman RIP, they hunted the Black Glove down and destroyed them.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Bentley
Judge Dredd.

Alone? Even if he had some sidekicks with him, I doubt he could do it.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Epicurus
Depending on which incarnation we're talking about, Superman could either end Gotham's woes in a fortnight or make the situation even worse that it already is.

Most likely things will get worse

Sin I AM
Clark considered this in no man's land and realized how futile it was

Bentley
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Alone? Even if he had some sidekicks with him, I doubt he could do it.

Megacity One shits on Gotham when it comes to how ph_cked up it is. Of course, Dredd would need enough ressources to pull it off, like he has in his own comicbook series, for example.

Golgo13
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Talia and Damian found out about the Black Glove's plot, and arrived just in time to save Gordon from all the booby traps at Wayne Manor, then helped Batman.

After the events of Batman RIP, they hunted the Black Glove down and destroyed them.

Gotcha. thumb up

Odekahn
Originally posted by Kazenji
How's that any different to him fighting Clayface?

Because sand, unlike clay doesn't break apart when water... Oh wait.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Now spiderman in gotham while more powerful than batman he lacks the character and darkness to intimidate the criminals of gotham, plus the gotham criminals are so f&ck up in the head, that they will break Spiderman mentally and morally. Even if we give him his black suit back to be more intimidating, he lacks the psycological or mental "mojo" to tame gotham city like Batman does

Gotham has a particularly crazy and brutal brand of criminals but nothing that would break Spider-Man mentally or morally. Peter has had to deal with some SERIOUSLY f*cked up shit over the years. The Osborn family alone has mentally prepared him for crazy.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
True. I wonder if a hero could actually make gotham city a safe place to walk at night.

I think spiderman is more powerful but I even doubt Superman will be able to clean gotham, because of the psycotic nature of its criminals.

"Batman is not the hero Gotham needs, but the hero Gotham deserves" smile in college humor voice

It would give Thor two days before Gotham is a lot safer.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Another thing that hasn't been brought up is how Batman will handle the heroes and anti-heroes in Marvel? He is SO against killing and you have guys like Wolverine, Punisher, Ghost Rider, Elektra etc. running around.

Heck, even Thor/Captain America, the best of Marvel, have killed. The villains will push his intelligence and physical capabilities to the limit but it's the heroes and the nature of the Universe that will really challenge him morally and mentally.

I'm assuming this is JLA level Batman or whatever, because solo book Batman just to survive would need his infrastructure and connections like Oracle imo.

Golgo13
Batman in his solo book has done ridiculous things. And he has a wealth of tech now. Especially with Brother Eye.

Kazenji
Its good that some people in here are lowballing Batman.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Another thing that hasn't been brought up is how Batman will handle the heroes and anti-heroes in Marvel? He is SO against killing and you have guys like Wolverine, Punisher, Ghost Rider, Elektra etc. running around.

Heck, even Thor/Captain America, the best of Marvel, have killed. The villains will push his intelligence and physical capabilities to the limit but it's the heroes and the nature of the Universe that will really challenge him morally and mentally.

I'm assuming this is JLA level Batman or whatever, because solo book Batman just to survive would need his infrastructure and connections like Oracle imo.

I'm assuming the OP was letting the heroes stand back and give each of them free rein, otherwise within a day the Batfamily would come down on Spidey, then the JLA etc.

And it also depends on what he gets when he takes his cave with him. Insider suit? That one that lets him sneak up on Superman? His rocket ship? etc etc.

TheLordofMurder
Realizing what he's up against, Batman pulls out his anti-Superman armor and wrecks havok on Spidermans foes:

JayDaDon
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Gotham has a particularly crazy and brutal brand of criminals but nothing that would break Spider-Man mentally or morally. Peter has had to deal with some SERIOUSLY f*cked up shit over the years. The Osborn family alone has mentally prepared him for crazy.



thumb up Not to mention all the phucked up mess Kraven and his family have dragged him through.

maxivitopowe
Someone has mentioned the bats time travel (I think someone has mentioned it in this thread) feat but Spidey has one that, IMO, is better

DarkSaint85
Which is?

SamZED
What are you guys talking about?

DarkSaint85
I have no idea lol. Maybe as the resident Spidey guy you can enlighten me...

Rao Kal El
Lost track of this one.

But when it comes to psychotic Batman enemies are way ahead of spiderman villains.

The osbornes or the kravens cant compare to how crazy and sick are some of the batman villains.

And I doubt Thor can deal with Gotham city, his daddy issues are not enought to batcrazyfuel his head into vengance and he is deeply in love with his own brother to make him a serios crazy vigilante.

JayDaDon
That may be true, but psychotic and sick is nothing new to Spidey. Being just a bit more so wouldn't break his sanity or will which is one of the strongest in comics. Hell he's gotta be mentally strong just for coming out of the clone saga in his right mind.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Someone has mentioned the bats time travel (I think someone has mentioned it in this thread) feat but Spidey has one that, IMO, is better

Which feat is THIS?

SamZED
Originally posted by Rao Kal El

The osbornes or the kravens cant compare to how crazy and sick are some of the batman villains. Kraven probably can't. Osborn however graduated from the same psycho school as the Joker. And even Joker doesn't usually plan years ahead just to f with Batman.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by SamZED
Kraven probably can't. Osborn however graduated from the same psycho school as the Joker. And even Joker doesn't usually plan years ahead just to f with Batman.


u'd place osborn on an even keel with joker?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by SamZED
Kraven probably can't. Osborn however graduated from the same psycho school as the Joker. And even Joker doesn't usually plan years ahead just to f with Batman.

No, he has Hush and Thomas Wayne for that.

Pyg is also weird as ****....

Stoic
I think Batman would have major problems with Cletus Cassidy.

Rao Kal El
How would you guys think that Spiderman will react to a villain like the Queen of hearts? (Batman 472)

IMO he will probably realize that some of the Batman villains are just waaaaaaay crazy

Originally posted by Stoic
I think Batman would have major problems with Cletus Cassidy.

Power wise I think Spiderman can handle everything Gotham has to offer.

Mentally wise though is another story.

Though in the end if We are just talking about power, Spiderman will fare better than Batman if they were to switch cities.

My only doubt is if Spiderman will be mentally prepared to deal with Gotham city.

Stoic
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
How would you guys think that Spiderman will react to a villain like the Queen of hearts? (Batman 472)

IMO he will probably realize that some of the Batman villains are just waaaaaaay crazy



Power wise I think Spiderman can handle everything Gotham has to offer.

Mentally wise though is another story.

Though in the end if We are just talking about power, Spiderman will fare better than Batman if they were to switch cities.

My only doubt is if Spiderman will be mentally prepared to deal with Gotham city.

Why wouldn't Spiderman be? has he ever come across as being emotionally unstable? How would Batman do if the Sinister 6 popped up while he was unprepared, and began to beat on him?

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Stoic
Why wouldn't Spiderman be? has he ever come across as being emotionally unstable? How would Batman do if the Sinister 6 popped up while he was unprepared, and began to beat on him?

Spiderman will get driven into madness dealing with Gotham city, IMO.

He gets already pushed mentally dealing with guys like the Osbournes and Kraven.

Dealing with the madness of the Joker, Szas, Killer Croc, Two face, Ventriloquist, The Mad Hatter, Dr. Freeze (just to name a few), they are not your regular criminals with superpowers, like the Vulture, Shock, Rhino, most of the Batman criminals are straight up psychos that need to be in a mental institution, not in a prison.

When it comes down to the level of crazy that Batman has to deal with in Gotham city vs dealing with the level of crazy of Spiderman's villains, there is basically no contest and if Batman's own sanity gets pushed by Gotham city, Spiderman's most surely will get trumped by it, IMO.

Stoic
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Spiderman will get driven into madness dealing with Gotham city, IMO.

He gets already pushed mentally dealing with guys like the Osbournes and Kraven.

Dealing with the madness of the Joker, Szas, Killer Croc, Two face, Ventriloquist, The Mad Hatter, Dr. Freeze (just to name a few), they are not your regular criminals with superpowers, like the Vulture, Shock, Rhino, most of the Batman criminals are straight up psychos that need to be in a mental institution, not in a prison.

When it comes down to the level of crazy that Batman has to deal with in Gotham city vs dealing with the level of crazy of Spiderman's villains, there is basically no contest and if Batman's own sanity gets pushed by Gotham city, Spiderman's most surely will get trumped by it, IMO.


But Spiderman would one shot most of those guys, it's not like he has to get into their minds to see what makes them tick like Batman who has to follow those practices due to his human frailty. You see Batman and Spiderman are two different people. If Frank Castle was in Gotham there would be two outcomes within one year. Frank would either be killed, or Gotham would be free of its psychos. Spidey wouldn't kill them, but the beatings that he would give many of the Batman rogues would make them think twice about doing crime once they got hit by him once. This should be obvious to anyone who thinks about it. I mean imagine Peter fighting the Penguin? he wouldn't be as smooth as Bruce, but would he have to be?

JayDaDon
And that's not even accounting for Spidey's tech

Flyattractor
I would think that escalation would be the name of the game either way. Bats would tech up in Spidey NYC as would the Gotham Baddies if Spidey came to town.

Stoic
Originally posted by Flyattractor
I would think that escalation would be the name of the game either way. Bats would tech up in Spidey NYC as would the Gotham Baddies if Spidey came to town.

No they probably wouldn't because it's not their way, and Spiderman as i pointed out earlier isn't like Batman. He isn't as territorial as bruce, and would never lay claim to Gotham being his city, while on the other hand would have no problem teaming up with friends to remove the foul element of that city.

JayDaDon
Originally posted by Flyattractor
I would think that escalation would be the name of the game either way. Bats would tech up in Spidey NYC as would the Gotham Baddies if Spidey came to town.

How would that ever happen in Gotham? Maybe if everyone started buying tech from Lex Luthor

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by JayDaDon
How would that ever happen in Gotham? Maybe if everyone started buying tech from Lex Luthor

Penguin sells alien tech, as does Intergang.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
Spidey wouldn't kill them, but the beatings that he would give many of the Batman rogues would make them think twice about doing crime once they got hit by him once. This should be obvious to anyone who thinks about it. I mean imagine Peter fighting the Penguin? he wouldn't be as smooth as Bruce, but would he have to be?

Yes, he would. Because I'll have you know, Oswald Cobblepot is a respected, legit businessman now*sqwack*.

Humour aside, the Penguin IS, for all intents and purposes, legit now. Peter beating him up? Bad move. Then he'd have to fight Gotham PD as well - and whilst I know he didn't exactly enjoy first name terms with the New York PD, Jameson aside, he was still largely a hero of the people.

There are some things you can't punch your way out of - Batman has a delicate touch when its needed. He has his networks of informants and spies (the Penguin, obviously, plus his own disguises etc etc) that Peter simply wouldn't have. He'd have to rebuild all his networks in NYC, sure, but he's done it before. Whereas Spidey just....webswings around until something catches his eye/hears it on the police scanner. SpOck at least had his spiderbots....but as we can see, they're not foolproof.

SamZED
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Spiderman will get driven into madness dealing with Gotham city, IMO.

He gets already pushed mentally dealing with guys like the Osbournes and Kraven.

Dealing with the madness of the Joker, Szas, Killer Croc, Two face, Ventriloquist, The Mad Hatter, Dr. Freeze (just to name a few), they are not your regular criminals with superpowers, like the Vulture, Shock, Rhino, most of the Batman criminals are straight up psychos that need to be in a mental institution, not in a prison.

When it comes down to the level of crazy that Batman has to deal with in Gotham city vs dealing with the level of crazy of Spiderman's villains, there is basically no contest and if Batman's own sanity gets pushed by Gotham city, Spiderman's most surely will get trumped by it, IMO. None of the characters listed above have what it takes to drive Spider-man into madness or break his will. More importantly there is nothing the Joker could do to Pete that Osborn hasnt already done, except Osborn's taken it a lot further than Joker ever could because he knew who is behind the mask. Joker level of crazy is nothing new to Pete.

SamZED
Originally posted by Sin I AM
u'd place osborn on an even keel with joker? That depens. As far as general crazy goes no, but all things concerning Spider-man yes. His obsession rivals Joker's obsession with Batman.

Supermutant
lol how did this even get 7 pages. Next Daredevil and Flash swap cities.

SamZED
Originally posted by Supermutant
lol how did this even get 7 pages. Next Daredevil and Flash swap cities. How is that the same? I mean which one of them Flash and which one is Daredevil?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by SamZED
How is that the same? I mean which one of them Flash and which one is Daredevil?

Matt Murdock is Daredevil, Barry Allen is Flash.

True, sometimes they wear masks, hiding their features, but underneath, they are still the same character you saw a few panels back.

SamZED
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Matt Murdock is Daredevil, Barry Allen is Flash.

True, sometimes they wear masks, hiding their features, but underneath, they are still the same character you saw a few panels back. Don't push me.miffed

abhilegend
Originally posted by SamZED
Don't push me.miffed
Or what ruskie?

stick out tongue

SamZED
Originally posted by abhilegend
Or what ruskie?

stick out tongue Or i'll leave. sad

abhilegend
Originally posted by SamZED
Or i'll leave. sad
Aww, don't be mad. If you leave, who is going to give stilt all the wedgies?

SamZED
Originally posted by abhilegend
Aww, don't be mad. If you leave, who is going to give stilt all the wedgies? Gotta say it feels good to be appreciated for all that hard work. big grin

Bentley
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Matt Murdock is Daredevil, Wally West is Flash.

Fixed.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Bentley
Fixed.

Hmmm, maybe French Kang fans named Bentley aren't ALL bad....

maxivitopowe
Originally posted by Supermutant
lol how did this even get 7 pages. Next Daredevil and Flash swap cities. what is he talking about?

maxivitopowe
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which is? he was made to go back in time and fight all his major fights with the super criminals in his life

I've got pics on my phone and laptop but I'm not in a position right now to upload them anywhere

and they are pics not scans

maxivitopowe
bump

SamZED
Spidey still.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by maxivitopowe
bump


You should be arrested for bumping this.

EcstaticGrace
Parker would probably have problems with Ivy and Scarecrow.

Batman if we're being honest probably dies.

Surtur
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I fear joker would kill may abut parker clears

Would he though? Remember Joker isn't necessarily obsessed with any vigilante that comes to Gotham...he mostly just has a hard on for Batman.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Parker would probably have problems with Ivy and Scarecrow.


May I ask why? Batman has been able to defeat them. Remember Batman might be the better detective, but when it comes to science and shit Spidey is quite the genius. So if Batman figures out how to use some kind of science to help fight Ivy or Scarecrow..Spider-Man probably could as well.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Surtur
Would he though? Remember Joker isn't necessarily obsessed with any vigilante that comes to Gotham...he mostly just has a hard on for Batman.



May I ask why? Batman has been able to defeat them. Remember Batman might be the better detective, but when it comes to science and shit Spidey is quite the genius. So if Batman figures out how to use some kind of science to help fight Ivy or Scarecrow..Spider-Man probably could as well.


Spiderman would have that city cleaned up by his lonesome.

EcstaticGrace
Originally posted by Surtur
Would he though? Remember Joker isn't necessarily obsessed with any vigilante that comes to Gotham...he mostly just has a hard on for Batman.



May I ask why? Batman has been able to defeat them. Remember Batman might be the better detective, but when it comes to science and shit Spidey is quite the genius. So if Batman figures out how to use some kind of science to help fight Ivy or Scarecrow..Spider-Man probably could as well.

Bats is unrealistically a jack of all trades. I'm not saying DC top 3 in intelligence is equivalent to Marvel top 3 in intelligence. But Batman generally is in the DC Universe is one of the smartest people on DC Earth while generally Parker isn't even in top 10 on Marvel Earth.

Bats is smart in a plethora of different sciences wheras I don't think Parker is the chemist that Bruce is. I could be wrong but that's to be proven

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Bats is unrealistically a jack of all trades. I'm not saying DC top 3 in intelligence is equivalent to Marvel top 3 in intelligence. But Batman generally is in the DC Universe is one of the smartest people on DC Earth while generally Parker isn't even in top 10 on Marvel Earth.

Bats is smart in a plethora of different sciences wheras I don't think Parker is the chemist that Bruce is. I could be wrong but that's to be proven


Smart or not, you can't discount the fact that Batman and Joker have a "thing" and that thing has resulted in deaths that could have been prevented. I don't consider that very smart.

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>