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Obi-Wan vs. Spidey (Tobey Maguire)

Spiderman is invisible (webs are not invisible)

Obi-Wan gets 30 min prep and lightsaber

Fight takes place in empty New York City and neither character can travel outside a 3000 ft radius of the Empire State Building

Does Obi-Wan have precog?

Yes. Obi-Wan has force powers

One more question: Which version are these two characters?

I didn't specify.

Obi-Wan from Star Wars prequels and Tobey Maguire spidey

I'm leaning towards Obi-Wan.

Force speed, precog, and TK added with a light saber equals a win, but not easily.

I say 9/10.

Spidey has more mobility, considering he can swing and attack from buidings.

Would you consider spidey sense and force precog on a similar level?

Spidey definitely has the upper hand of agility and strength.

I dunno if Spidey Sense is on par with the Force, though.

Obi wan Wrecks his spidy sense

Spidey's invisibility and spidey sense should put him on even footing with Obi-Wan in regards to evasion.

Spidey has the edge in strength, agility and speed

Obi-Wan has an advantage with lightsaber skill and force powers

In the end, if spidey can seperate obi-wan from his lightsaber he wins.

Obi-Wan ragdolls Spiderman, then pushes his eyes back into his head.

/thread.

Spidey is invisible, 15x more agile than him, he is faster, has the spidey sense and enough power to lay him down with one punch.

Without the force, Obi-Wan is just a human with a weapon. Also it's the old jedi/ sith that are the ones with the extreme force abillity not obi wan.

Spiderman loses against the force.

Originally posted by Supra
Spiderman loses against the force.

Care to explain why?

1. The Force can sense shit everywhere, which is why Obi has Luke train with a remote blind.

2. Precog negates speed to some degree, which is why young Ani can compete in pod races despite being human.

3. Spidey has zero defense against TK. If Obi-Wan is bloodlusted and uses it to kill/pin down, there's nothing Spidey can do about that.

4. Spidey-sense is misleading. if the Force is dangerous to him and it's everywhere, he'll be confused.

Obi Wan doesn't have extremely powerful force powers. Besides, if Obi Wan wants to use TK, he has to know where Spiderman is. Not only can Spiderman hide on top of, behind and in buildings ~ but spidey is also invisible.

Spidey has an advantage in city mobility and long range attacks. Also, force sense doesn't render obi wan invincible, he can still be hit

Originally posted by Firefly218
Obi Wan doesn't have extremely powerful force powers. Besides, if Obi Wan wants to use TK, he has to know where Spiderman is. Not only can Spiderman hide on top of, behind and in buildings ~ but spidey is also invisible.

Spidey has an advantage in city mobility and long range attacks. Also, force sense doesn't render obi wan invincible, he can still be hit

1. Yes, he does, for the purpose of this fight. He can ragdoll Spidey; Spidey does not have TK defensive powers. Obi-Wan has moved things the size of cars, used super speed, and technically could choke Spidey, push his eyes into his head, etc. It depends on whether or not you are making this a bloodlusted, no morals battle or a battle using 'in-character' morality.

2. Obi-Wan can sense Spider-man. The assumption is he may not be able to physically see Spidey, but he knows he's around/a danger. Unless your intention is Obi-Wan wanders into an arena with his saber out for no good reason. We have many instances of beings using the Force to sense others, especially when they are danger.

3. Spidey's range is irrelevant if Obi-Wan TK's him out of the gate. Hell, he could trip the guy, run over and saber him in half. At the very least, he'd put Spidey on the defensive. You act like Obi-Wan is a level 6 mage who requires prep and spell components to use his ace power here; he doesn't. Again, unless you're saying "Obi will spend this fight being a model Jedi knight", there's no reason he can't constrict Spidey's mask, or throw him about.

CIS is intact for both characters.

Obi Wan may be able to sense spidey, just as he can sense poeple on distant planets, but he can only use TK powers if he can actually see spidey. Give me a movie feat that suggests otherwise.

Range is very relevant. As mentioned before, only really old characters like Yoda have an extreme command of the force. Obi Wan has not shown he can use the force to any extent where we can assume he can use it on spidey. Spidey is extremely quick/fast, agile and is invisible - I doubt young Obi Wan can do much against that.

As seen in various fights, Obi Wan CAN get hit. Just because Obi Wan has force sense and precog does not mean that he is invincible.

Originally posted by Firefly218
CIS is intact for both characters.

Obi Wan may be able to sense spidey, just as he can sense poeple on distant planets, but he can only use TK powers if he can actually see spidey. Give me a movie feat that suggests otherwise.

Obi and Qui-Gon disable droids in TPM with TK. The droids are shoved over and stop working. The novelization indicates that at this time, both are using TK to manipulate the insides of the droids to disable them; something they can't visible see in the instant.

Also, the idea that Force users can sense things all around them but only use TK on what they can visibly see seems rather far-fetched.



It's irrelevant because at any point when Spidey is close enough to Obi to harm him, he's well within TK range.



True. In the fights with other Force users who have TK/precog/etc he gets tagged. And in a fight with a bounty hunter he is trying to detain, not kill, he gets tagged.

He is mortal. But I'm simply pointing out that his use of the Force and TK is a huge advantage, and invisibility/danger sense doesn't compare. Obi-Wan could sense that Spidey is going to sling-shot in and move just to the right place and bisect him.

The TK just makes it less fair.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Obi and Qui-Gon disable droids in TPM with TK. The droids are shoved over and stop working. The novelization indicates that at this time, both are using TK to manipulate the insides of the droids to disable them; something they can't visible see in the instant.

Using TK in close proximity against stationary droids isn't an impressive feat. Even if they couldn't technically see inside the droid to disable it, they don't need to in that situation.

An incredibly fast, agile, invisible target very far away - such as spidey - is a different story.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose

Also, the idea that Force users can sense things all around them but only use TK on what they can visibly see seems rather far-fetched.


You do realize that Jedi sense stimuli that they can't actually manipulate right? When Darth Vader sensed Obi Wan in his ship, why didn't Vader just TK him out the airlock? Because Vader has to target him to do that, and Vader can't target Obi Wan unless he is in sight. Same reason Jedi can't TK with people on other planets, even though they can sense them. In order to direct the force at someone/something, Jedi must be able to precisely target it/him/her.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose

It's irrelevant because at any point when Spidey is close enough to Obi to harm him, he's well within TK range.

As stated before, spidey has advantage of city mobility and long -range attacks.

Once again, Jedi CAN be hit, despite force sense. Even if Obi Wan can see it coming, he may be too slow to react.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Care to explain why?

If I have to explain the force to you then your should not be making a thread about the force.

Originally posted by Supra
If I have to explain the force to you then your should not be making a thread about the force.

I don't want you to explain the force. I want you to explain why the force defeats spidey.

http://troll.me/images/facepalm-picard/smh.jpg

Someone already explained it to you, read above.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Obi Wan may be able to sense spidey, just as he can sense poeple on distant planets, but he can only use TK powers if he can actually see spidey. Give me a movie feat that suggests otherwise.

No you don't.

We see Yoda lift the X-wing with his eyes closed, Luke is levitating rocks when his eyes are closed, etc...

Originally posted by Supra
Someone already explained it to you, read above.

No one had explained anything at the time of your posting. Which is why I asked for the reasoning behind your opinion.

Are you a kid pretending to be an adult, or an adult pretending to be a kid?

Originally posted by ares834
No you don't.

We see Yoda lift the X-wing with his eyes closed, Luke is levitating rocks when his eyes are closed, etc...

Yes but Yoda knew the position of the X-wing, considering it was stationary, and mentally targeted it.

Obi Wan does not necessarily NEED to see spidey to TK him, but he needs to know where spidey is. Which is difficult when spidey is invisible, insanely fast and agile, and very far away.

Luckily Kenobi can use the force to sense things....

Being able to sense does not give a location. Vader could sense kenobi on his ship, but still had to find him.

If Jedi could do as you say, they would be way too powerful.

Vader's "ship" was the size of a moon and full of other humans... lol

By contrast, this fight takes place in an empty New York. And, while Kenobi may not be able to TK Spiderman from miles away, Spiderman also can't attack from very far distances. He'll need to get fairly close if he wants to use his webs.

Originally posted by ares834
Vader's "ship" was the size of a moon and full of other humans... lol

By contrast, this fight takes place in an empty New York. And, while Kenobi may not be able to TK Spiderman from miles away, Spiderman also can't attack from very far distances. He'll need to get fairly close if he wants to use his webs.

Inanimate substances are not discriminated against by the force. This is seen when Yoda senses Luke's ship, which is an inorganic/inanimate object. This means that animate/organic things are equally distracting to the force sense as inanimate/inorganic things - which means that people are equally distracting to the force as objects. NYC is full of things/objects, so the absence of people shouldn't matter.

So you agree that Kenobi needs to actually target spidey to TK him

In that case I argue that spidey can evade kenobi's TK by hiding in nearby buildings, which are close enough for web attacks.

Originally posted by Firefly218
No one had explained anything at the time of your posting. Which is why I asked for the reasoning behind your opinion.

Are you a kid pretending to be an adult, or an adult pretending to be a kid?

No you refuse to read. Your the kid making stupid threads and trying to defend an a point which holds no value.

Force>Spiderman

Originally posted by ares834
No you don't.

We see Yoda lift the X-wing with his eyes closed, Luke is levitating rocks when his eyes are closed, etc...

This. End of Story and to boot, Anakin and Obi Wan sensed tiny killer centipedes in another room.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Being able to sense does not give a location. Vader could sense kenobi on his ship, but still had to find him.

If Jedi could do as you say, they would be way too powerful.

I'm not sure why you're using the example of an advanced Force user who wants to remain hidden. I realize you are EU-ignorant, but they have Force abilities to obscure their own locations. Spiderman does not have this. Also, he would probably make a ****ton of noise in an empty city with great accoustics like NYC.

You seem to think that agility beats precog and TK. I can't point out how unfounded this is here. Obi-Wan Kenobi has deflected near-range rapid fire blaster bolts while barely moving in comparison because of precog for one; two, he's used TK to manipulate everything from tiny small intricate details to larger car like obstacles. Manipulating or throwing Spidey is not at all difficult.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm not sure why you're using the example of an advanced Force user who wants to remain hidden. I realize you are EU-ignorant, but they have Force abilities to obscure their own locations. Spiderman does not have this. Also, he would probably make a ****ton of noise in an empty city with great accoustics like NYC.

You seem to think that agility beats precog and TK. I can't point out how unfounded this is here. Obi-Wan Kenobi has deflected near-range rapid fire blaster bolts while barely moving in comparison because of precog for one; two, he's used TK to manipulate everything from tiny small intricate details to larger car like obstacles. Manipulating or throwing Spidey is not at all difficult.

Good points
Fair enough, concession granted.

Uuuummm, this is a stomp. Any force user to the highest degree can stomp Spiderman, even without TK. The stips does not change this.

Grievous has dodged the Force at points, so agility is somewhat effective against Force attacks. Particularly since Spidey can cling to surfaces to resist TK if he needs to.

Awesome fight. Obi-Wan wins more often than not.

If Spiderman can shoot invisible webs, I think he wins the majority. He can fling obi-wan high into the air and the falls would injure him. I think he can get some webs through obi-wan's force sense if they are invisible. Just my opinion. If they aren't, obi-wan can quickly see and block them with light saber. If SM gets close, light saber finishes him--not easily cuz he us fast, but obi-wan will catch him with the saber.

An interesting point was brought up about the distance from which a jedi can use TK on a person or to locate a person's exact location. Most of the time it appears they have to be pretty close, but we have the case of Vader force chocking the commander whoever from a vast distance via tv screen. I believe obiwan could sense spiderman from any reasonable attack distance, cuz remember when he and Annikan sensed those poisonous slugs about the kill the princess? Those were small lifeforms and they were in the next room behind a closed door.

Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Grievous has dodged the Force at points, so agility is somewhat effective against Force attacks. Particularly since Spidey can cling to surfaces to resist TK if he needs to.

Neph, we covered this. One of the 'dodges' was not a dodge at all and the other one was him using magnet soles to recover. I reviewed the videos with you.

I was more talking about the scenes in the Clone Wars mini where people try to hit him with Force Pushes and he literally jumps out of the way.

Hence "agility".

Hrm. Link me?

WIj7gIDFDe4

3.35

52DOoggWuxc

2.29. Also I love that scene the elevator just before that. Lmao at the ****ing chainsaw noise.

The Johnny Bravo cartoon, lol. Okay, then Obi Wan can TK a star destroyer and Yoda can TK fleets.

Spidey still loses.