Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/333/d/2/shonen_hero__s_by_oliverlastra23-d5mdwte.jpg

vs

Iron man
Namor
Terra
She-Hulk

Who wins?

Anime, imo.

They seem to have a significant speed advantage and can dish out a ton of damage.

Iron Man and Namor solo from what I know and what I hear about Namor

What have you heard Stealthranger

Shit like fighting the Hulk

OBD says he's island level, which tends outweigh FT and Bleach in DC

Iron Man is at least MHS and is in the single digit teraton range for destructive powah and durability

Isnt Luffy also MHS and isnt he an Island buster currently?

And I believe when Namor fought Hulk they were deep in water which increases his power like a shit load.

Well he's MHS, not sure if the island busting from top tiers applies to him tho

Ah, well that changes things, don't really know much 'bout Namor see

Iron Man could still likely solo with Naruto as his only speed bump

I don't think any of team 2 can tank Naruto Bijuu-bombing them.

She-Hulk could take it pretty easily.

Current Naruto's Bijuu bombs are like, small-country busters. She-Hulk can take that easily? I know she can take a beating, but hows she stand up to energy attacks?

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=18122

IM is also small country level in DC

Are things that old still canon?

Lol you do not want to listen to anything narutoforums saids because most of the crap they say isn't true.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Are things that old still canon? Uh, yeah, lol.

Shouldn't Iron Man be like, 90 then?

Comics are stupid.

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Lol you do not want to listen to anything narutoforums saids because most of the crap they say isn't true.

Originally posted by God Cloth Seiya
Lol you do not want to listen to anything narutoforums saids because most of the crap they say isn't true.

Pretty much. They're to blame for OBD bias. In regards to anything that isn't One Piece, the only thing they have to say about an anime is "shit... shit-tastic... pure shit!" It's f**king irritating, and it's part of why people ridicule the OBD.

Well no, they like a lot of different anime, just not Naruto or Bleach and maybe a few others.

Apparently on narutoforums the hulk solos DBZ and galactus solos saint seiya and I'm just like hell no.

Galactus at his best does solo the Gold Saints though.

As for Hulk soloing DBZ:

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+The+Incredible+Hulk

It was considered inconclusive whether or not he beat Goku alone.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Well no, they like a lot of different anime, just not Naruto or Bleach and maybe a few others.

That's... kinda my point. They wank the f**k out of One Piece while actively criticising its mainstream counterparts, all of which are featured in this thread. It essentially destroys their credibility.

But I think we should get back on track with the fight.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
That's... kinda my point. They wank the f**k out of One Piece while actively criticising its mainstream counterparts, all of which are featured in this thread. It essentially destroys their credibility.

One Piece is better than Naruto or Bleach though imo. By quite a margin.

Originally posted by Sacred 117
That's... kinda my point. They wank the f**k out of One Piece while actively criticising its mainstream counterparts, all of which are featured in this thread. It essentially destroys their credibility. Bleach and Naruto sort of suck though, to be fair.

It shows a clear bias for one series over others that makes them look like wankers. Now whether or not this clouds their judgement on feats I couldn't say but merely glancing at both pages seems to reflect a OP favoritism.

Not that OP isn't deserving of such love but it is overrated IMO. All of the Big Three are though.

Naruto is considered the strongest of the big three there though.

Exactly, considering Juubi can solo OP or Clorox there too

Originally posted by Nephthys
One Piece is better than Naruto or Bleach though imo. By quite a margin.

IMO, OP *was* better. The characterization has fallen off post skip, and it's never been great at pacing.


Naruto is underrated writing wise. It has consistent themes, foreshadows it's events better than most give it credit for, while still manages some interesting twists and events. It's pacing is muuuuch better. It's plot can be a bit up and down, but it's down parts don't last nearly as long. And most importantly, character development wise, it's easily the best, Naruto has steadily grown in both obvious and non-obvious ways and he's changed a lot over time.

Naruto writing is average at best.

But what's more weird is that I don't really like many Naruto battles despite the characters having interesting abilities. It's as if they were botched on propose.

Team Anime are all so much faster and consistently fight at such speeds that Team Comic shouldn't be able to touch them.

And they are all able to damage Team Comic to a pretty gnarly degree.

Originally posted by Bentley
Naruto writing is average at best.

But what's more weird is that I don't really like many Naruto battles despite the characters having interesting abilities. It's as if they were botched on propose.

I find Naruto writing is up and down, but certainly not 'average'.


And I do like it's battles better than OP's.

Originally posted by Q99
It has consistent themes,

Remember when one of the themes was hard work paying off?

The theme was always sort of sketchy because the protagonist was pretty much handed the power to be relevant (The Kyuubi and of course being an Uzumaki, the latter arguably killed that theme alone), but constant stressing of Naruto being the chosen one and hard-working but relatively untalented characters like Rock Lee or Sakura being left to the dust have made the theme obsolete.



Like what?

For everything well-foreshadowed, we can name an asspull.

Like Sasuke snake no jutsuing away from a nuclear explosion (Despite being low on chakra). Or how about Izanami? Or Minato knowing Sage Mode? Or Pain resurrecting all of Konoha because "**** consequences"?



Subjective.



As the ending fatigue of current Naruto shows.



It's been down for most of the Great Shinobi War.



Naruto's development has been all right, but his arc doesn't compare to Usopp's, and who else has developed in a believable or satisfying way? Sasuke? He couldn't decide whether or not he was a murdering psycho for over a hundred chapters before settling on "not", and when he did get over his mental problems it was so quick as to be unbelievable. Sakura? She is still every bit the faux-action girl she always has been (Lawl just leave it up to Naruto). Kakashi? While admittedly not a poor character, he is a static one, arguably due to having developed in the past.

Do I think One Piece is better? Overall, yeah, but you're right in that it's dropped significantly since the time skip. I haven't read either in like two months or more.

Neither are even close to the best manga I've ever read (That would be Berserk), and overall, yeah, they're relatively "average".

Originally posted by Bentley
Naruto writing is average at best.

But what's more weird is that I don't really like many Naruto battles despite the characters having interesting abilities. It's as if they were botched on propose. I used to like Naruto battles.

Now it has turned into a decidedly inferior artist to Toriyama trying to replicate DBZ fights.

Originally posted by Q99
I find Naruto writing is up and down, but certainly not 'average'.

The writing has some strong points, but I think they do not outweight the low ones enough to go beyond average. I'll gladly admit that Naruto aims higher than, let's say DBZ, when it comes to emotion and characterization; but that ambition is met with mixed results, it's hardly one of the greatest character driven mangas out there.


Originally posted by Q99
And I do like it's battles better than OP's.

They are very different styles, so you're free to like one better than the other. For me the action and humor blend of One Piece is a welcomed change of pace from your average mindless combat, I also happen to think there is a lot more action besides fighting in OP which makes everything feel more dynamic. But it's fair to say there are pretty poor battles in One Piece, I think that whenever Zoro fights the results are more or less the same, it's rather formulaic.

Naruto has a few exceptional battles, some average ones and a little too many battles that are supposed to have a final twist... That often disrupts the flow of the combat entirely. Somehow they also end up being pretty loopsided in several instances.

I hate that Ussop had regressed

Originally posted by NemeBro
Remember when one of the themes was hard work paying off?

The theme was always sort of sketchy because the protagonist was pretty much handed the power to be relevant (The Kyuubi and of course being an Uzumaki, the latter arguably killed that theme alone), but constant stressing of Naruto being the chosen one and hard-working but relatively untalented characters like Rock Lee or Sakura being left to the dust have made the theme obsolete.

Has gradually turned into those who persevere win in the end. The conversation between Naruto and Obito clearly shows that Kishimoto has not forgotten about his idea of "there is no easy way in life" established way back in chapter 2. Naruto becoming a god among men was also foreshadowed forever ago and he had to work to become as strong as he did.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Like what?

For everything well-foreshadowed, we can name an asspull.

Like Sasuke snake no jutsuing away from a nuclear explosion (Despite being low on chakra).

Summoning was established as something Sasuke could do. Less of an asspull and more horrendously sloppy execution.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Or how about Izanami? Or Minato knowing Sage Mode?

These are indeed asspulls. The latter less of one since Sage Mode was established unlike the Gears Izanami.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Or Pain resurrecting all of Konoha because "**** consequences"?

This act was foreshadowing Tobi's and Madara's original plan. This bit of foreshadowing just happened to completely horrible.

Originally posted by NemeBro
As the ending fatigue of current Naruto shows.

Know what else has ending fatigue? War. O:

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's been down for most of the Great Shinobi War.

I have enjoyed it quite a lot actually.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Naruto's development has been all right, but his arc doesn't compare to Usopp's, and who else has developed in a believable or satisfying way?

Why pick Usopp, the character who has regressed to being a coward and is virtually the same guy he was in Alabasta?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Sasuke? He couldn't decide whether or not he was a murdering psycho for over a hundred chapters before settling on "not", and when he did get over his mental problems it was so quick as to be unbelievable.

Good thing Sasuke is not cured of his mental problems since Kishimoto is blatantly showing that Sasuke is still messed up in the head in subtle ways.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Sakura? She is still every bit the faux-action girl she always has been (Lawl just leave it up to Naruto).

Obviously wrong since she has participated in battles and is more of an actual help to her allies than Robin and arguably Nami.

Only picked yours apart cause you did the same to Q99. 313

Ussop is the most prominent fake coward I've ever seen in fiction. He's always been actually quite damn brave. But he's defined by his lies, so he must seem like a coward because he is brave. With Sogeking he learned to put a brave face, but he's actually just lying in a level further than his regular lie.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's been down for most of the Great Shinobi War.

I'd actually say it's been bad (or at least took a major turn for the worse) since the time skip.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Has gradually turned into those who persevere win in the end. The conversation between Naruto and Obito clearly shows that Kishimoto has not forgotten about his idea of "there is no easy way in life" established way back in chapter 2. Naruto becoming a god among men was also foreshadowed forever ago and he had to work to become as strong as he did.

This doesn't really detract from the fact that the only reason Naruto "persevering" holds any weight is because the cards were stacked heavily in his favor.

Also, Naruto learned Sage Mode easily, and he conquered his Biju also pretty easily. He hasn't had to work nearly as hard as, say, Lee. Or Luffy.



Performing several taxing jutsu in a few seconds was established as something Sasuke could do?



Sage Mode was established. But what makes it an asspull is that Minato has had many opportunities to use it where it would have come in handy, particularly when Tobi kidnapped his son and didn't give a **** about anything.



That it foreshadowed Tobi and Madara's plan makes it no less of an asspull though. It was a cheap device to make the consequences of the war considerably less than they could have been.



The Marineford arc didn't suffer from it.



Yeah but you're the same guy who prefers Naruto over Berserk. Your taste is in question.



Bentley already covered this sufficiently well, but to add to it, Usopp still gets scared, yes. But he also manages to power through his fear to do heroic manly shit. That's called courage.

Also, he has gotten over his feelings of inferiority among his crew.



This might be due to me not reading the manga for two months, but what ways are those?



lol?

Robin is at worst the fifth strongest member of the crew (She contests fourth with Franky), and has participated greatly in battles she's been present for (Granted, their foes have been for the most part so weak it doesn't really matter). Nami as well, with her clima tact she has more AOE crowd control than maybe anyone in the crew.

But that doesn't really change that for the most part Sakura hasn't ****ing gone anywhere. She's like "im gonna be straung to walk alongside you lol", then Sasuke nearly kills her and she outright says she'll leave it to the strong manly men. Then she actually gets a cool powerup, and starts to crush some mooks before, oh right, she has to be saved by Sasuke and Naruto, lol.

She's still just as much in their shadow despite any alleged hard work. Admittedly this isn't totally her fault. As I've said, due to Kishi poorly handling his themes Sasuke and Naruto have been handed their power on a silver platter. Sakura wasn't.



Don't pick fights you can't win.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Nami as well, with her clima tact she has more AOE crowd control than maybe anyone in the crew.

Also the crew literally couldn't function without Nami since they need her skills to navigate around the super dangerous waters of the Grand Line and whatever. She's an invaluable crew member.

Yeah that too.

*****.

Team 1 pretty easily. Team 2 members are slow and lack the destructive capacity needed to win.

Iron Man is massively hypersonic and nobody on Team 2 has single digit teraton level destructive power except for Naruto

Iron Man can solo Clorox and FT so Ichigo and Natsu are non factors

Iron Man soloing BLEACH? Lol.

Yeah, tell me how he's beating Ulquiorra, let alone Barragan, let alone Ichigo.

http://img.mangastream.to/manga/bleach/351/M7_Bleach_Ch351_08.png

Las Noches was at the very, very least city-sized given Nel's description. And Lanza is a super fast spammable ability. Iron Man isn't taking two of those and living. Neither is he dodging them.

If Iron Man can dish out and survive single digit teratons in his base form, wtf is Ulquiorra going to do with megaton level attacks? (really wish the OBD wiki wasn't axed, that way I could find reference them easier)

Barragan's Respira has never been shown to age anything above low end kiloton level, Iron Man's attacks are far more energetic than anything in the Bleachverse

Ichigo isn't a small country buster sonny boy

Huh, the OBD was axed. Interesting.

Yeah, likely some bitches moped about it to wikispaces, wikispaces got asshurt and deleted ****ing everything

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Iron Man is massively hypersonic and nobody on Team 2 has single digit teraton level destructive power except for Naruto

Iron Man can solo Clorox and FT so Ichigo and Natsu are non factors


How often does Iron Man operate at this level? 1/10 times? He's been taken down by far less far more often than it's taken more to hurt him.

And show me how often he goes that fast, considering he gets hit by normal level speed opponents all the time. In fact it's rare Tony goes a fight where he speed blitzes or doesn't take just as many hits as he dishes out.

Everybody on Team Anime can do some serious damage to him.

Define these lesser things, I am curious. Though why wouldn't he go at that level? And don't do the MvC "PIS/CIS feats" shit

Same as above with these "normal level speed" opponents

Nardo, sure, Luffy, idk, Ichigo and Natsu, no way, not at all

Originally posted by KingD19
How often does Iron Man operate at this level? 1/10 times? He's been taken down by far less far more often than it's taken more to hurt him.

And show me how often he goes that fast, considering he gets hit by normal level speed opponents all the time. In fact it's rare Tony goes a fight where he speed blitzes or doesn't take just as many hits as he dishes out.

Everybody on Team Anime can do some serious damage to him.



It's the typical comic wank. People will take a single feat in a characters 50+ year history and pretend said character operates at that level.

Yeah. You can name like, 10 times in just as many years as Iron Man has performed at those types of levels.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Are things that old still canon? Originally posted by Nephthys
Shouldn't Iron Man be like, 90 then?

Comics are stupid. Originally posted by ares834


It's the typical comic wank. People will take a single feat in a characters 50+ year history and pretend said character operates at that level.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah. You can name like, 10 times in just as many years as Iron Man has performed at those types of levels.

Are you seriously appeling to the "statistical means" shit

:galacticryoma

Appealing?
Applying?

Whatever, the point is. Iron Man does not operate at the levels you claim much if ever. He fights far far slower, is nowhere near as durable, etc... Read comics to find that out. With comic characters you can't ignore the averages and only focus on the highs, especially when it comes to Iron Man who's normal days far outweigh his invincible days.

Originally posted by KingD19
Appealing?
Applying?

Whatever, the point is. Iron Man does not operate at the levels you claim much if ever.

Appealing, my keyboard is ghey

I take you ignored Endless Mike's calc then



Do tell I am curious



Ditto above

And that's your burden if he's 'far slower and less durable"



Yeah, we can sonny boy. Lower end showings are by far the most abundant shit in fiction, fictional verses are generally looked at the exact same way in terms on evaluation of feats. Why are comics so different?

What the **** makes Iron Man's low end showings any different than another characters low ends that get glanced at, scoffed at, pushed under the table and ignored?

Just because people ignore highs to focus on lows, or ignore lows and averages to focus on highs doesn't mean they make sense.

If I said Luffy is any less durable than he really is because of the comedic moments when Nami cracks him in the head and he gets a huge lump, people would call me out on it if I was serious.

And screw a calculation that is based on only the highest of his ability which he rarely shows.

In AvX he was shot by Doctor Nemesis multiple times.

In AvX he fought Magneto and wasn't dodging around at Transonic speeds, despite Magneto not being all that fast in recent years.

In the Octessence storyline he was defeated by one of the Exemplar's who was a pyrokinetic. She didn't have super speed, and she easily tagged him and almost killed him.

Iron Man's armor has been ripped to pieces by an Omega Red that hasn't fed recently.

He was getting beaten to shit by Worthy Grey Gargoyle.

And this is just a few examples from the 90's to now.

etc, etc, etc...

Originally posted by KingD19
And screw a calculation that is based on only the highest of his ability which he rarely shows.

>I don't like it so therefore it doesn't count



Don't know who that is



Magneto has reacted to Mjolnir and lasers from Dazzler

And I'm curious as to how you prove this whole "not even transonic" horseshit



Characters in comics get tagged alot due to PIS and other such general faggotry



Yeah, you don't know how it works

In the modern day debates use "positive feedback". It's where we take the higher end showings of a combatant and assume it to be an accurate representation of their abilities

Want to do what you're doing and nitpick and establish an actual mean? We get shit like city block skyfathers, building level DBZ characters, etc

Low showings are all over the place for fictional characters, what makes Iron Man's showings any different than any characters that are just scoffed at and ignored, again?

Oh, and don't do that CBR "it's an old feat so it doesn't count anymoar" feat, since nothing said it wasn't canon anymoar

Originally posted by KingD19
Appealing?
Applying?

Whatever, the point is. Iron Man does not operate at the levels you claim much if ever. He fights far far slower, is nowhere near as durable, etc... Read comics to find that out. With comic characters you can't ignore the averages and only focus on the highs, especially when it comes to Iron Man who's normal days far outweigh his invincible days.

Don't now about feats, but for the nature of comics we do focus on high showings, otherwise we are essentially downgrading the character. This we call lowballing.

Don't know if the rules are different in this forum, but people who call on averages to benefit a side of the argument are frowned upon in comics vs.

What that guy said

Let's face it, the lower end feats without all the collateral damage you'd expect are going to vastly outnumber the higher end ones for any medium, whether be it comics, anime, manga, and so on

Consistent high ends, by whatever means you want to judge consistent as, are there to give an idea of a character's true capability in versus threads